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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by TenOfAllTrades (talk | contribs) at 13:38, 18 July 2009 (→Abd's request for 'mediation': Your interpretation and mine are quite different.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Hey

Long time no talk, how have you been? I'm househunting and haven't been editing much lately. Hope you're well. Peace, delldot ∇. 16:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Dell, it sure has been awhile. Good luck on the house hunting, we did that a little over a year ago and it is time consuming and hard to find what you will be living in for a long time. We were lucky because my son is a home appraiser so he helped us with a lot of help of his friends in different parts of the business. I am trying to prepare my body for another surgery. If I get everything going in the right direction my surgery looks like I'll have it the beginning of Aug. My spine is degenerating. I have explained a little bit of this on my User:Crohnie user page. I have a lot of damage occurring fast so they hope the surgery will slow things down. The surgery will be through my throat to my spine with the replacement of a disk. I really don't look forward to this at all. If you want to chat more openly, drop me an email. You know you are always welcomed to pop in. I am always happy to hear from friends. As for Misplaced Pages, I do a lot of vandal patroling but I do try to keep a few articles on my watchlist updated. Typing though is very hard for me right now with the pain and nerve damage I have. Anyways that's all I can say here about things. RL is really busting my chops at this time. I have to admit I am a bit worried about the outcome of the upcoming surgery. There are just too many risks not to be. Take care, --CrohnieGal 11:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment regarding conduct of User:Frei Hans

I have requested comment on the conduct of User:Frei Hans. As you have been involved in this dispute to some extent, I would appreciate it if you could comment. Papa November (talk) 14:59, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I did make a response. I hope he is now listening, --CrohnieGal 17:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Melcher transcript

Just want to direct your attention to remarks I’ve posted on the talk page of the "Charles Manson" article. They’re headed "Melcher transcript" and have to do with a link that I added to the article and that you reasonably deleted.JohnBonaccorsi (talk) 06:53, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Signpost: 6 July 2009

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Delivered by SoxBot (talk) at 02:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William M. Connolley

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William M. Connolley/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William M. Connolley/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 12:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Something odd happened: . Wrong button? William M. Connolley (talk) 13:04, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Responded at users talk page. Thanks, --CrohnieGal 20:29, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

No need to apologize!

Hi Crohnie: I realized immediately that it was an unintentional mistake - sometimes I accidentally activate the mouse when I don't mean to, so I took no offence at all. In fact it's good that sensible people like you are reading all this stuff, which could easily mushroom out of control. Best regards, Mathsci (talk) 20:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Mathsci, I was just getting ready to stop by and apologize to you too. I made the mistake and didn't fix it myself because it was caught almost as quickly as the button I hit by mistake. Yes I am watching and reading this case. I don't understand why it left the community to a arb case. I thought the community was actually handling things quite well but I guess I missed something though I still haven't figured out what. I am about to leave the computer for the day now but I'll be back reading tomorrow. I will make a comment if and when I see something(s) that I might be able to add to the situation. Right now I am just trying to figure out what this case is actually going to be about. I see they did figure out who is named in the case which was weird in it's own rights. Anyways, thanks for being so gracious with me and my mistake. i think my worse mistake was not coming by your talk page and apologizing after it happened. Thanks, --CrohnieGal 20:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

For those who maybe lurking..

Today marks 30 years of marriage! If we can do, you can, really! :) Have a great day everyone. --CrohnieGal 09:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations! Given the prevailing culture, what you have done can be seen as an act of rebellion. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 15:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I needed a good laugh Boris. :) We just chilled all day. We have family time today at lunch. --CrohnieGal 11:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Abd's request for 'mediation'

Long-time lurker, first time caller here. Congratulations on thirty years!

I happened to see your query on Abd's talk page. I'm assuming that he's referring to this message on my talk page: User talk:TenOfAllTrades#Your email response to me regarding William M. Connolley. The post to my talk page was a duplicate of the request that he sent to me by email, to which I had previously replied — and rejected. (The sense of my first response was identical to what appears on my talk page, though both were typed from scratch.)

I don't know where Abd is getting the idea that he was "solicit mediation", however. He was looking for someone who would repeat and reinforce his own interpretation of the situation and relay his threats to WMC. To wit: "I'm looking for someone whom WMC might trust who would, upon becoming informed more fully about the situation, intercede to prevent him from being take to ArbComm over this." Abd also refers to the recently-concluded Arbitration that involved him and JzG, where he makes the unfounded assertion that JzG escaped desysopping by the skin of his teeth. (I believe that I've corrected that misinterpretation before, but Abd insists on repeating it.) Abd followed up with implicit threats that WMC could be swiftly desysopped if he didn't capitulate immediately and completely.

That isn't a request for mediation; that's saber-rattling. I have a history of criticising Abd's conduct, so I find it rather weakly credible that Abd hoped to receive from me anything but a figleaf to cover his desire for an immediate Arbitration. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:57, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, I "got the idea that I was soliciting mediation" because that is exactly what I was doing. I did it in a diffuse way with JzG, ArbComm did not like how long I took to escalate that, so I was going for something faster. I picked someone who is an experienced administrator and whom I thought would be sympathetic to WMC. It was, perhaps, a long shot.

As to "skin of his teeth," had he been a less popular administrator, the bit would have been lost, other admins have lost it for less. JzG, it was explained to me, was cut a lot of slack because of his monumental work with OTRS. And even with the sanction being only a reprimand, JzG stopped editing entirely. My theory is that he was burned out; that explains the incivility that led to his previous reprimand by ArbComm; and when he couldn't blow off steam by incivility (it was gross), he started using tools in, shall we say, a less patient manner.

Was I looking for someone who would "repeat and reinforce" my own interpretation? Well, that's one possibility. The other is that a second admin might be able to explain to me where I was wrong. TOAT would also not have to agree with my interpretation to recognize that there was a risk, of substantial disruption if nothing else. Consider what has happened already in connection with this. Mathsci and WMC edit warred on the RfAr page, WMC edit warred on Talk:Hipocrite, with an admin who retired, possibly with that being one of the last straws. It's kind of amazing that WMC wasn't blocked; he directly defied promises from two clerks that they would block for any more edit warring. WMC just reverted a clerk. He might get away with it, but these things add up.

One thing is clear: there is nothing wrong with what I did to solicit TOAT's involvement, and I'm quite sure that ArbComm will confirm that. TOAT lost an opportunity. Consider the possibility that ArbComm confirms my claim of action while involved, as it did similarly with JzG. WMC has far more long-standing reputation for administrative abuse, he's been very, very controversial, more than JzG, I'd say. I don't have a crystal ball, but I think it's unlikely that WMC will escape without a reprimand, at least. One might note that I haven't asked for desysopping, at least not yet, but I suspect that others will.

Crohnie, if you look at the ban discussion on AN/I where I was community banned, and then look at those who, at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/JzG 3, back in April, called for me to be banned, you'll see what was going on and why I asked for a speedy close. There are enough editors upset about that case that they will take the opportunities presented to get what they've wanted for some time now. And this is a popular faction; they do not represent a majority of editors, but they can assemble strong local support when they are motivated. What I saw was that enough of them would continue to pile in that true consensus would be unlikely at AN/I, which isn't watched by most editors. That is, an outcome would be "ban" or "no consensus," depending a bit on the quirks of who decides to close, and who was available to comment, and to have continued to contest it would definitely have expanding the disruption. Remember, in the RfC, two-thirds of editors supported me being banned, even though ArbComm did confirm my claims. I decided that a month's topic ban wasn't worth the disruption, and the issue was going to have to go to ArbComm anyway. It's just one article and just one editor. If there were not crucial issues involved which affect many editors, with ongoing damage in many areas, I might have dropped it entirely. Just notice how many editors have been warned for incivility and other misbehavior just in a few days; I didn't create those disruptions; this is a faction which is quite accustomed to getting its way, and which believes that whatever they do to promote their view of Misplaced Pages is legitimate. And it's time that this be confronted. How deeply it will be confronted at this time, I don't know. But this is a start. --Abd (talk) 05:59, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

There a lot to absorb here because I don't usually follow arbcom cases. To me those are usually the drama fest in big time. What I don't get here is what is it you, Abd are trying to accomplish? You say you aren't going for WMC administrators bits in one breath and then say you are. It can't be both ways. I think the community is upset with you for a lot of different reasons that you are not acknowledging. JzG has stopped editing but you feel it wasn't because of you. Well I know you chased him for a long time with threats to him to lose his bit or more. Your over analyzing others in my opinion. So. what is it you are trying to accomplish with this arbcom case because to be honest with you, this should never have left the community and I don't understand why the arbs were in such a rush, they started voting really fast to accept. I got to say something there but I had already known that it was going to a case. Something is fishy here. I don't know if things are being said outside this project but if it is it sure makes it hard for people like me who want to be involved but doesn't have all the information. Thanks to both of you though, I will be still trying to understand all of this. --CrohnieGal 11:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

While that might have been what you were thinking, none of those things are what you wrote. You didn't ask for a "mediator" or "mediation" anywhere in your email; you explicitly stated that you were "looking for someone...who would...intercede to prevent from being take to ArbComm over this." I believe that the plain language of your message speaks for itself, and that your after-the-fact interpretation of it reads things into the text that just aren't there. At the time, the email looked to me like it was heavy on self-justification for your jump direct to Arbitration, and very thin indeed on interest in mediation or open to any change in your own conduct. I'm not sure that Crohnie's talk page is the proper venue for this, however. Make your arguments at the Arbitration, and let the Arbs sort it out. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)