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User talk:Lar

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I recognize that this user page belongs to the Misplaced Pages project and not to me personally. As such, I recognize that I am expected to respectfully abide by community standards as to the presentation and content of this page, and that if I do not like these guidelines, I am welcome either to engage in reasonable discussion about it, to publish my material elsewhere, or to leave the project.


My real name is Larry Pieniazek and I like LEGO(r) Brand building elements. Feel free to mail me with comments or concerns if you don't want to post.

  • Here about a BLP that's persistently getting vandalized and you want me to semi protect it? See User:Lar/Liberal_Semi and I or one of my TPWs will get it.
  • Here to leave me a message? Response time varies depending on where I'm active... Ping me if it's truly urgent, or find another admin.
  • Here about accountability? see my accountability page.
    Note: The apparent listification of the category (it's back but may go away again) does not change my commitment to my recallability in any way

Please read the two blue boxes :).

A Note on how things are done here:

Being a "grumpy old curmudgeon", I have certain principles governing this talk page which I expect you to adhere to if you post here. (This talk page is my "territory", (although I acknowledge it's not really mine, it's the community's) and I assume janitorial responsibility for it.)

  • Please observe Misplaced Pages:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette here.
  • I may, without notice, refactor comments to put like with like, correct indents, or retitle sections to reflect their contents more clearly. If I inadvertently change the meaning of anything, please let me know so I can fix it!
  • While I reserve the right to delete comments I find egregiously poor form, I am normally opposed to doing so and use monthly random archives instead. If you post here, your words will remain here and eventually in the archives, so please do not delete them, use strikeouts. In other words, think carefully about what you say rather than posting hastily or heatedly.
  • Edit warring here is particularly bad form. One of my WP:TPW's may well issue a short block, so don't do it.
  • When all else fails, check the edit history.
(cribbed from User:Fyslee's header... Thanks!)
(From User:Lar/Eeyore Policy)
A Note on threading:

Interpersonal communication does not work when messages are left on individual users' talk pages rather than threaded, especially when a third party wishes to read or reply.

Being a "bear of very little brain", I get easily confused when trying to follow conversations that bounce back and forth, so I've decided to try the convention that many others seem to use, aggregation of messages on either your talk page or my talk page. If the conversation is about an article I will try to aggregate on the article's talk page.

  • If the conversation is on your talk page or an article talk page, I will watch it.
  • If the conversation is on my talk page or an article talk page and I think that you may not be watching it, I will link to it in a note on your talk page, or in the edit summary of an empty edit. But if you start a thread here, please watch it.

I may mess up, don't worry, I'll find it eventually. Ping me if you really need to.

please note this is a personal preference rather than a matter of site policy

(From User:Lar/Pooh Policy)

Archives

Talk Page Archives
My 2006 archived talk
Archive 1 start through about 22 Jan 2006
Archive 2 22 Jan 2006 through 1 Mar 2006
Archive 3 1 Mar 2006 through 1 Apr 2006
Archive 4 1 Apr 2006 through 15 Apr 2006
Archive 5 15 Apr 2006 through 1 May 2006
Archive 6 1 May 2006 through 15 May 2006
Archive 7 15 May 2006 through 1 June 2006
Archive 8 1 June 2006 through 15 June 2006
Archive 9 15 June 2006 through 1 July 2006
Archive 10 1 July 2006 through 15 July 2006
Archive 11 15 July 2006 through 1 August 2006
Archive 12 1 August 2006 through 15 August 2006
Archive 13 15 August 2006 through 1 September 2006
Archive 14 1 September 2006 through 15 September 2006
Archive 15 15 September 2006 through 1 October 2006
Archive 16 1 October 2006 through 15 October 2006
Archive 17 15 October 2006 through 1 November 2006
Archive 18 1 November 2006 through 15 November 2006
Archive 19 15 November 2006 through 1 December 2006
Archive 20 1 December 2006 through 15 December 2006
Archive 21 15 December 2006 through 1 January 2007
My 2007 archived talk
Archive 22 1 January 2007 through 15 January 2007
Archive 23 15 January 2007 through 1 February 2007
Archive 24 1 February 2007 through 15 February 2007
Archive 25 15 February 2007 through 1 March 2007
Archive 26 1 March 2007 through 15 March 2007
Archive 27 Trentino — South Tyrol topics
Archive 28 15 March 2007 through 1 April 2007
Archive 29 1 April 2007 through 1 May 2007
Archive 30 1 May 2007 through 1 June 2007
Archive 31 1 June 2007 through 1 July 2007
Archive 32 1 July 2007 through 1 August 2007
Archive 33 1 August 2007 through 1 September 2007
Archive 34 1 September 2007 through 1 October 2007
Archive 35 1 October 2007 through 1 November 2007
Archive 36 1 November 2007 through 1 December 2007
Archive 37 1 December 2007 through 1 January 2008
My 2008 archived talk
Archive 38 1 January 2008 through 1 February 2008
Archive 39 1 February 2008 through 1 March 2008
Archive 40 1 March 2008 through 1 April 2008
Archive 41 1 April 2008 through 1 May 2008
Archive 42 1 May 2008 through 1 June 2008
Archive 43 1 June 2008 through 1 July 2008
Archive 44 1 July 2008 through 1 August 2008
Archive 45 1 August 2008 through 1 September 2008
Archive 46 1 September 2008 through 1 October 2008
Archive 47 1 October 2008 through 1 November 2008
Archive 48 1 November 2008 through 1 December 2008
Archive 49 1 December 2008 through 1 January 2009
My 2009 archived talk
Archive 50 1 January 2009 through 1 February 2009
Archive 51 1 February 2009 through 1 March 2009
Archive 52 1 March 2009 through 1 April 2009
Archive 53 1 April 2009 through 1 May 2009
Archive 54 1 May 2009 through 1 June 2009
Archive 55 1 June 2009 through 1 July 2009
Archive 56 1 July 2009 through 1 August 2009
Archive 57 1 August 2009 through 1 September 2009
Archive 58 1 September 2009 through 1 October 2009
Archive 59 1 October 2009 through 1 November 2009
Archive 60 1 November 2009 through 1 December 2009
Archive 61 1 December 2009 through 1 January 2010
My 2010 archived talk
Archive 62 1 January 2010 through 1 February 2010
Archive 63 1 February 2010 through 1 March 2010
Archive 64 1 March 2010 through 1 April 2010
Archive 65 1 April 2010 through 1 May 2010
Archive 66 1 May 2010 through 1 June 2010
Archive 67 1 June 2010 through 1 July 2010
Archive 68 1 July 2010 through 1 August 2010
Archive 69 1 August 2010 through 1 September 2010
Archive 70 1 September 2010 through 1 October 2010
Archive 71 1 October 2010 through 1 November 2010
Archive 72 1 November 2010 through 1 December 2010
Archive 73 1 December 2010 through 1 January 2011
My 2011/2012 archived talk
Archive 74 1 January 2011 through 1 February 2011
Archive 75 1 February 2011 through 1 March 2011
Archive 76 1 March 2011 through 1 April 2011
Archive 77 1 April 2011 through 1 May 2011
Archive 78 1 May 2011 through 1 December 2012
My post 2012 archived talk
Archive 79 1 December 2012 through 1 December 2013
Archive 80 1 December 2013 through 1 December 2016
Archive 81 1 December 2016 through 1 December 2018
Archive 82 1 December 2018 through 1 January 2021
Archive 83 1 January 2021 through 1 January 2023
Archive 84 1 January 2023 through 1 January 2025 ??
RfA Thank Yous
RFA Archive Howcheng (27 Dec 2005) through present
All dates approximate, conversations organised by thread start date

Note: I archive off RfA thank yous separately, I think they're neat!

This is Lar's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83

Note

I have sent you an email regarding an issue I've come across. Wildhartlivie (talk) 04:38, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Odd. Normally when I get these I'm all like "ya ya, I got it, why'd ya ping me, I check my mail compulsively" but not this time. Did you send it using the "email this user" function? Hasn't arrived yet. Thx. ++Lar: t/c 04:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

More socking from TreadingWater (talk · contribs)

See these contribs, from TruthPrevailsAgain (talk · contribs). An obvious sock. Unitanode 16:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed. I'll add it to the SPI report ++Lar: t/c 17:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Our lone uploader

An Misplaced Pages:Uploaders usergroup was created some back in November 2008 so someone could shoot us a few pictures without waiting for autoconfirmed. Brion granted it to one person, Special:UserRights/Heathermtimm, who hasn't edited since then. I'd suggest removing it to keep the group tidy. Iff she returns to properly license the photos, we can undelete them and she'll have 10 edits and no longer need the userright anyway. I asked Brion but he declared talk page bankruptcy before noticing the thread =) –xeno 20:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

You can ask him again, my understanding of email bankruptcy is that it's a fresh start, not a prohibition on older topics. But it certainly sounds reasonable to remove this user from the group. As for the uploads, I reviewed them, one is very poor quality, one has been replaced by a much better image (with an attached permission pointer to OTRS) and one is one that might be good to have back if the permission can be sorted. I think. So anyway I've removed it for now. One of us should leave a note at Brion's page (that would be you I suggest) and one at Heather's (that would be me) ++Lar: t/c 22:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! I dropped him a courtesy note. I'd guess he's not that concerned about how we structure our userrights over here, but for some reason only stewards can set the flag. cheers, –xeno 02:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
I think Uploader would be a useful right to be able to grant for admins, just like Rollback, so perhaps a Bugzilla is in order, because having Stewards need to undo it makes it not very useful. ++Lar: t/c 05:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. See Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)#Add Uploader to the list of rights admins can assign. –xeno 02:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
I've spoken up there. And don't be afraid of Bugzilla! ++Lar: t/c 03:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Not afraid, per se. More lazy. And also I bet someone more technically inclined could file a much more useful bugzilla, i.e. one that identifies the exact code lines needing changed, etc. –xeno 03:15, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Hmph! That's not me. (the "exact line of code" part, not the lazy part)... I have no idea where the code to change would be without doing the research... but... I'd just model the bug submission after one of the other ones for permissions changes. ++Lar: t/c 03:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
You would just add uploaders to the sysop AddGroups, so: $wgAddGroups = array( 'rollbacker', 'abusefilter'...., 'Uploaders' );. Prodego 03:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Lazing pays off again! ++Lar: t/c 03:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
High five?!xeno 03:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Indeed. Plus I nicked User:Mr.Z-man/lazy so that's a win too. ++Lar: t/c 03:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

← Yes, I'm fond of that userbox =). Partly per your concerns about muddied waters, I split the discussion; see Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)#add edit-semi as a feature to "Uploader"?. You may wish to comment. –xeno 15:32, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I also overcame my Entomophobia: bugzilla:19535. –xeno 18:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Cool. It may have been a bit early, there are some dissenting voices yet, but ya. ++Lar: t/c 19:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Yea, I know these things take time to percolate through bugzilla so I figured I would give 'er a head start. –xeno 03:58, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Harsh warnings

(Refactored to User_talk:Daedalus969 per my policy) ++Lar: t/c 00:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Blocks question

Based on the way the software works at that website would File:Legovamp.jpg be free or non-free? MBisanz 01:48, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

All Content ©1986-2009-through the End of Time by Christopher Doyle ... so non-free. As you well know I use one of these generated thingies, elsewhere, but not here, for that particular reason. I know Chris (in passing) so could ask him if he's willing to clarify licensing but barring an explicit permission, not free. ++Lar: t/c 01:52, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
No need to bother him, I've been bored this week and sorting the 10,000 files in Category:User-created public domain images from February 2009 and figured you would know. Tagged for deletion. MBisanz 02:06, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

a shit disturber to a grumpy old curmudgeon

the worst thing about someone noting that you're trying to be funny is that clearly you're failing... even if you weren't trying in the first place! I confess to being tempted to dropping a note in at the civility poll asking if an admin / steward / wiseman / guru calling a lowly peon a 'shit disturber' should be block worthy, but it depresses me no end to think that some might say 'yes' - now that's really not funny. Happy to chat more about why I genuinely believe my approach to have merit, equally happy to accept grumbles when they come ;-) Privatemusings (talk) 03:35, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I thought you were fucking hilarious;) - Josette (talk) 03:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I didn't say he wasn't funny. Oh, and you are one of those two too, to be honest.(you know you are...) :) ++Lar: t/c 05:38, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
she can haz fucking barnstar, too ;) cheers, Jack Merridew 06:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm thinking of giving him a fucking barnstar. We don't seem to have quite the right one, so I guess I'll have to roll my own.
Sometimes it is best to just walk around a bit of disturbing shit you find in your path — quite a common circumstance here as there is a serious problem with all the feral dogs roaming about. Other times is is best to just bury them with a spade to save the next person from an unpleasant experience. Some of the dogs are rabid — at least a half dozen people have been bitten and died here in the last six months — so they've begun putting the worst down and have castrated some tens of thousands to stem the surging population of toxic bitters. The dogs are hard to catch so they are using a lot of strychnine laced baits; the apparently rabid are swiftly shot.
Thanks for your input yesterday — Cheers, Jack Merridew 06:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

To elaborate

To clarify what I meant here, the reasons I think it would be inappropriate for you to assign the uploader user right on this wiki are: this is your home wiki, you shouldn't be deciding who does or doesn't get the right and there is no clear policy for it yet (I don't think that means you should do whatever you think is right, especially on an established wiki). Didn't want to say all of that there as it is already going off-topic. - Rjd0060 (talk) 18:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Nod. I was pushing the envelope a bit to make a point, it's true. Still, all of those policies have been gradually softening over the last couple of years, as the panoply of things that stewards can do has broadened.
  • "don't decide", for example... stewards decide things routinely, in such areas as global permissions, global blocks/locks/hides, renames, and on and on and on. But ya... this is taking deciding a bit too close to the edge...
  • "home wiki", If the action is clear cut, there's not nearly the issue there was once. I routinely turn off admin/crat/CU/OV bits for users on en:wp, either because the request came into m:SRP from ArbCom (where other stewards actually have said they prefer en:wp familiar stewards to do it) or because it was a private request to me... but ya, this is a bit more home wiki centric than those things...
  • "no clear policy"... what we have is a precedent by Brion to do something. You could argue that either way, but ya...
So anyway, thanks for turning up. I don't think there's really an issue here with the one removal I did, but it's good to talk through stuff, and I probably should strike the remark you were replying to. ++Lar: t/c 21:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
No worries. Thanks for explaining. Though sure, the policies are being relaxed. I'm seeing this also just as a "watcher". - Rjd0060 (talk) 22:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Frei Hans

(Refactored to User_talk:Elen of the Roads per my policy) ++Lar: t/c 14:10, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply - defective email

(Refactored to User_talk:Nik Wright2 per my policy) ++Lar: t/c 19:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Eric's statement

You restored the opening comment and removed the main thrust of his argument, leaving a vague statement which has no bearing on his actual concerns. While poorly phrased, that was essentially a "vote of no confidence" in two of the editors named. IMO, this is a very serious concern, "NO confidence" views have always been allowed in democratic discussions, and I suggest you approach Eric about rephrasing, and allow it to stand. Valid concerns about divisive editors is not the same as incivility or personal attacks, and you know it. KillerChihuahuaAdvice 15:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I was torn here... I did not think that the initial reversion should stand, and yet the paragraphs I omitted, as written, were personal attacks. I believe it is possible to phrase the "vote of no confidence" in a way that does not violate our NPA policy and I have thought about the phrasing one would use to do so, but it's not my place to put words in Eric's mouth, so I didn't try. I've already sent Eric some urgings but will redouble my efforts. The thing that makes it messier now, of course, is that there are a couple of endorses there now which presumably would need to be removed once the new wording was put in place. I welcome suggestions on how to proceed. ++Lar: t/c 16:37, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
IMO, leave the statement with the endorses, but allow and encourage Eric to phrase his "no confidence" in a way which manages to voice his concerns without insulting anyone personally, and then let both stand. I cannot imagine anyone being such a childish PITA as to complain "Eric got two! How come I only get one!" and if they do, explain there were confusing edits and this is the best solution. It might help to add a parenthetical to the first or second view, such as (edited) or (as intended). Or even rename the one currently there as Another View, or something similar, with no name at all. Any of these are quite workable. One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahuaAdvice 16:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
It looks like Eric's view is not going to be allowed to stand. He toned down his view and posted it but it was removed again... you may want to get further involved. ++Lar: t/c 15:27, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(infoboxes)#Dispute over single articles having multiple infoboxes - VOTE!!!

Hi! You might be interested in the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(infoboxes)#Dispute over single articles having multiple infoboxes - VOTE!!!. Thank you. Sswonk (talk) 19:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC) (Using {{Please see}})

By all means, delete this thread if not concerned, just an FYI. Sswonk (talk) 19:51, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I've kind of lost the thread on that, I'm afraid. But maybe my TPW's could comment. I will try to take a look and see. ++Lar: t/c 05:35, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

teh "Vandalism Patrol" is back!!

and I learned a new word: "transuserfy". Cheers, Jack Merridew 14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Isn't this a recreation of something that was MfD'ed? I forget.. ++Lar: t/c 14:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The very page. See:
Xeno has indicated a new MfD is in his plan. The first one aborted due to a U1 request.
I guess the election is off ;(
Cheers, Jack Merridew 14:50, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Indeed... ... Left Xeno a message, and an encouragement to reply here. ++Lar: t/c 14:51, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I saw ;) I'll check back tomorrow as I'm about to shut down for the day. Lots of progress on the portals on meta today. Cheers, Jack Merridew 14:55, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I was going to start the new MFD about 7 days after the restoration. But it could be started now as well, I think Drew is done with the cleanup. –xeno 18:36, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Whatever makes the most sense, I just wanted to make sure you didn't forget (but this all was before I saw that earlier, longer thread on your user talk. ++Lar: t/c 18:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

PMAnderson

Part of the bitterness among the factions in the date-linking dispute was due to various incidents of incivility. I won't bore you with all the details, but PMAnderson is complaining about Ohconfucius (and others) addressing him as "Mandy". It was a small but obviously annoying unpleasantry, and frankly I was hoping that such issues had been forgotten. However, in my very humble opinion, I'd advise against further comment as it seems to fan the flames of discord. Hope that helps. --RexxS (talk) 17:05, 19 July 2009 (UTC)