Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tiptoety (talk | contribs) at 19:29, 20 July 2009 (From Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Statement by involved Tiptoety

I would like to start by saying that it is truly unfortunate that it has come to this, but I feel that all other methods of communication and dispute resolution has failed.

Ryulong has been a active administrator on Misplaced Pages, and during his time here has helped the project significantly. Unfortunately, he has failed to take constructive criticism from the community at large and has continued to use his administrative tools in a disruptive and at times abusive way. While the second request for comment was in progress, Ryulong has continued to be abrasive, and threatens to use his tools against a user whom he is involved in a dispute with (the founding reason the RfC was filed). I urge the committee to look at all the diffs provided in the second RfC to completely understand the long term patter of disruption.

I would also like to note that in opening the second RfC I hoped that Ryulong would change his behavior and gave him many opportunities, but judging by his most recent actions he has not taken them. I would also like to note that I added the ANI diff to the above list of prior attempts at dispute resolution.

Further comment / reply to Hersfold

I am going to have to disagree with you here Hersfold, there are more issues than just that one block threat that occurred during the second RfC including this block which is a first time block of one week, on a IP editor whom is editing the same subjects as Ryulong. I would also like to not some other questionable rollbacks that were preformed during the RfC, a large removal of non-vandalism content, another removal of non-vandalism content, a rollback of a IP whom made some wikimark up edits (non-vandalism), and rolling back a clearly good faith edit. He also recently threatened to block an IP whom was changing the heading colors on a article that he edits on a regular basis. Tiptoety 14:29, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Vassyana and Coren

First let me start by saying that the result of the RfC was to come here as the issues being addressed were not being fixed, so there is really no "evidence" of abuse since the RfC...but there is evidence of it during the RfC (or after it was filed). I would also like to note that the RfC was doomed from the start as stated that he was not willing to change his actions. In regards to your request for evidence of further issues during or after the RfC I ask you to look at the diffs provided in the section above (the reply to Hersfold). Tiptoety 19:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Are you ready for IPv6?

He is no longer open to recall, so that point is moot. If you wish to know why, you can ask him but I am not sure it is relevant. Tiptoety 04:52, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Jayvdb

Yes from the 16th to the 17th Ryulong engaged in a edit war (page history). Also all those diffs cited in the above section directed towards Hersfold are all after the RfC were filled. Please see that section, as I have also asked in multiple other sections. Thanks, Tiptoety 03:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Comment from Master&Expert

I am ambivalent towards Ryulong and his admin work. On the one hand, he is an all-around excellent maintenance worker which the site highly values. But on the other, I have found some of his comments to have a very "as an admin my judgment is naturally sound" feel to them. Master&Expert (Talk) 04:15, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Statement from Majorly

Ryulong has been an admin since early 2007. If I hadn't known this, I would have assumed he was relatively inexperienced, due to the number of abusive and other problematic actions he has done with admin rights. Lots of significant concerns were raised on his successful RFA, that passed with an unusually low percentage. Ryulong says he is trying to work on issues raised from the RFCs. This is not acceptable, when one has never really been suited for adminship. Bluntly, if he had never been an admin, and was to request now, he'd fail dismally. The problem here is that there has been a significant problem for a long, long time. Admins need to always have trust and respect from the community, and Ryulong lacks both these things, and has done for a while. His continuation as an admin is generally a net negative in my opinion. We should refrain from giving people, especially admins, chance after chance after chance to "work on issues" and to "redeem themselves". Why? Because there should never be any issues to work on or to redeem.

Statement from Rocksanddirt

Hersfolds statements really concern me. If Ryulong has been getting advice from others, and still shows a pattern of abusive use of tools, such that experienced users feel the need to do something; I think there is something for the committee to review. After the first RfC on Ryulong, he seemed to take a lot of the communities concerns to heart. At that one, there were a number of other admins, who were very dismissive of the attempt to reign in one of their own. It was only after numerous users pointed to specific problems, and requested not deadmining (though some did), but simply a change in his behavior that obstruction slowed and the concerns could be clearly presented to Ryulong. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 19:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Statement by involved Are you ready for IPv6?

Okay I spotted this recently. I've not dealt with Ryulong that I can remember of myself but in his 3rd RFA which he passed from that to become administrator http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Ryulong he said he would be open for recall.

Here's a quote:

---

---

Basically, arbitrations are very time consuming and lengthy. It often has people getting all angry at each other and results in some people getting punished, sanctioned, etc. The administrators open to recall is a there to make things more efficient. Why not just use that to handle things instead? I think it would save a lot of time. Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 02:22, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Ooops I typed the URL wrong. I went to the first RFA and not the third. The third was http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Ryulong_3 and the quote I was looking for was

---

---

Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 03:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved Ncmvocalist

I want to point out a few things before this is opened/rejected/whatever; comprising of a note, an unusual comment/critique, and another comment.

The RfC was closed by Tiptoety, and I added it to the archives with the understanding that it may be reopened only immediately following a decline of this request - should arbitrators deem it necessary opening the case, then there's no justification to turn back.

Beyond this, there's really only one other thing I believe I've commented on with respect to this - that Mythdon should voluntarily agree to stop interacting with or commenting on Ryulong. There was general agreement with this view by others, as suggested on the RfC's talk page. All that said, courtesy of what I call "modern technology" with respect to email access, when certain users, even if they are arbitrators, join forces with grudge-holders in allowing the needless escalation of matters (as opposed to dissolving them by joining the wider community chorus that says '...back off; find a more productive hobby that isn't so....'), I suppose it'd be too much to expect a decent understanding or feeling of care with respect to this sensitive issue. The justification for dissolving the issue and letting other issues arise without interference, far outweighs the justification for refusing to do so (which by contrast, has the effect of a nasty toxic chemical reaction of sorts - it'd be sad to see it blow up in anyones face). But I digress, and note the uneasy distinction (if any) between "a very hypothetical scenario" and "reality".

With the exception of this issue concerning interacting/commenting, the only other thing worth pointing out is two broad categories which should make 'what the decision ought to be' quite clear...but then again, I myself don't have a view on this dispute. :) Sometimes an RfC needs to move straight to arbitration, even where opened for a short time. But it is sometimes important to keep an RfC open, or to wait after an RfC is closed - the subject may make genuine (and I really do mean genuine) attempts to improve, yet may at any or all times, still put up fronts as if he/she will do little to nothing. That's all I have to say. Ncmvocalist (talk) 13:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Statement by CUTKD (uninvolved)

This Request for Arbitration was long overdue. Whilst I respect much of the good work Ryulong has performed, his attitude for too long has been nothing short of a disgrace. The sheer arrogance and rudeness he has displayed in some of his comments, and his total contempt for other users "beneath" him lead me to feel that nothing short of a total revocation of his full administrator rights will be sufficient. Hopefully, such sanctions might enforce a more humbling attitude, and should such action prove to be effective, I would be all for a reinstatement once noticeable changes are observed. C.U.T.K.D 09:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Request for clarification: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ryulong

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• Mythdon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)

Statement by Mythdon

I am requesting clarification for the wording of the terms of my soon-to-be mentorship.

In term B of "Mythdon restricted and placed under mentorship", it states "Mythdon should consult and take guidance from the mentor when issues arise concerning their editing or behavior". I am confused as to who this is referring to. The confusion is is that the word "their" refers to multiple other people, but it's clear that in the other restriction(s), the word discusses me as evidenced by their wording. However, I am not certain as to what the word means in this term (term B). Here's the question: Does "their" in term B refer to issues regarding my editing/behavior or other editors editing/behavior?

I am also asking for clarification on the wording of term C. It states "During mentorship, Mythdon is restricted from making edits such as unnecessary questions and abusive warnings to users' talk pages if not approved by their mentor" - In regards to "abusive warnings", does this go for all warnings, or does it simply go for warnings (i.e. my past warnings to admins/rollbackers about their use of rollback) that were judged to be abusive? The word "abusive" raises questions, and did raise a similar questions here, but that doesn't clarify my question. As an unrelated note, while my next statement here would not deal with something that needs any clarification, if anyone ever asks, as a result of arbitrator FayssalF's statement "After all, you'll be consulting with him before making any edit to anyone's talk page", besides my own talk page, I have made absolutely zero edits to user talk namespace since the closure of the case.

While you may find this request for clarification a bit ridiculous, please seriously consider clarifying.

If any other editor has additional questions regarding this or any other remedy, please do so. It may very well clarify something that I thought was some other way.

No, I have not found or attempted to find a mentor yet, in case an arbitrator asks me. If I do get assigned a mentor (which will most certainly likely happen), and if I edit during the mentorship, these are things I need to know before any interpretations are made. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 06:48, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Note by Mythdon

I would like to remind Risker and Newyorkbrad that before acting as arbitrators in this request, that they recused themselves from the relevant case voluntarily. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 06:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Additional questions by Mythdon

In term D, it states:

Mythdon shall not comment in any way (directly or indirectly) about Ryulong on any page in Misplaced Pages until a mentor is appointed and may only comment after the appointment with his mentor's prior approval.

While this term only covers comments about the user, I am unsure as to whether comments to the user apply as well. Does this also apply to interactions? I believe so. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 21:13, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

After the mentors appointment, in regards to "...may only comment after the appointment with his mentor's prior approval.", would this "approval" approve of all future comments to/about Ryulong without further approvals or would I have to gain approval for every single comment? My suspicions are leaning towards "...approval for every single comment". —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 21:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Non-statement by Stifle

Regarding the first point, I hate to say it, but I told you so. :)

As you were. Stifle (talk) 10:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Statement by other user

Clerk notes

• Recused - Tiptoety 06:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
• Recused - MBisanz 08:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
• Recused - Hersfold 22:26, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Regarding clause (b), "their" refers to your (Mythdon's) editing; see singular they.
• Regarding clause (c), if you (Mythdon) are uncertain whether an intended warning is abusive, you are to consult your mentor. The onus to avoid borderline behavior is on you at this point. Kirill  12:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Regarding clause (d): yes, you are restricted in terms of making any comment to Ryulong as well as making any comment about Ryulong. Kirill  01:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
• I wasn't planning on looking at this, let alone commenting on it, but Mythdon is correct that I had recused in the original case, so I will formally recuse from this as well. Risker (talk) 13:34, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
• Recused. (Don't worry, I wouldn't have forgotten.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
• Kirill succinctly makes the point. --Vassyana (talk) 01:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
• Agree with Kirill's comments. FloNight♥♥♥ 14:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
• Also concur with Kirill.  Roger Davies 16:05, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
• Agree with Kirill as well. Wizardman 19:31, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
• Kirill phrases it well. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:04, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
• In regards to the last question raised by Mythodon, that Kirill has not answered, the mentor will be phrasing the approval in a manner that they see fit. They may make broad or narrow approvals, or they may require that you seek permission for every single comment. The requirement of this remedy is that there is prior approval of the edits you make. John Vandenberg 06:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Request for clarification: Ryulong (2)

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

• Mythdon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)

Statement by Mythdon

I have additional questions regarding my mentorship ruling.

In regards to term A, it says:

Mythdon is urged to find a mentor within a month of the closure of this case, and is free to get a mentor of his/her choice. Mythdon is directed to inform the Committee once the mentor is selected. In case no mentor is found within 1 month, Mythdon will be assigned a mentor by ArbCom;

In the recently closed Mattisse case, there is ruling of mentorship there as well stating that Matissee shall be assigned mentors by the committee within 15 days of that decision. But, also, unlike mine, there is a ruling here that directs Mattisse not to edit Misplaced Pages if the "plan" is not accomplished within the 15 day period without Committee permission. Because of that, I have this question; Since my month long time limit to find a mentor is up (it's been up since approximately June 24), am I prohibited from editing Misplaced Pages at all until the appointment or am I just prohibited from making edits that require the mentor approval?

In regards to term B, it says:

Mythdon should consult and take guidance from the mentor when issues arise concerning their editing or behavior. Inability to work constructively with a mentor may be a sign that a user has continued difficulty in collaborative editing and that stronger sanctions are required; successful editing during the mentorship may demonstrate that the opposite is true;

I am having a hard time understanding the beginning sentence of that term "Mythdon should consult and take guidance from the mentor when issues arise concerning their editing or behavior". I do not know what is being meant by "consult". Does it mean "consult your mentor when you're unsure of whether an edit is legitimate?" - My suspicion is "yes".

Since I'm not 100% sure as of this moment, I need further clarification on this case ruling. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Vassyana

In response to: "Why have you not acquired a mentor? Have you had difficulty finding someone to agree? Were you unsure of where to look or how to approach the matter?" - To answer these first three questions, I'll respond to those all in the same answer; I intentionally have not found a mentor yet. The first reason is because I don't feel like doing so, and the other is because I'm not interested in having a mentor.

In response to: "...what areas do you feel you need the most guidance in?" - I don't feel like I need any guidance in any area. I feel that I've worked functional enough in the areas I've worked in before the remedy was put in place. I don't think I need any guidance from a mentor.

In response to: "What sort of advice would be most helpful for you?" - I don't think I need any advice. I think that I know how, what, where, and when to do something without advice from a mentor. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 05:18, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Additional question(s) from Mythdon

In regards to term D "Mythdon shall not comment in any way (directly or indirectly) about Ryulong on any page in Misplaced Pages until a mentor is appointed and may only comment after the appointment with his mentor's prior approval.", am I allowed to revert any post Ryulong makes on my talk page? Since the case, I have either reverted or ignored any post he's made on my talk page, but I think it's about time this gets clarified.

During the mentorship, can the committee pass a motion to place a site ban on me for a period of time through a simple majority vote if the committee has any reason to believe it is the only approach? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Ryulong

The answers to your question is here. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 05:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Comments/questions regarding motions

In response to the motion.

In response to; "This includes, but is not limited to, incivility, edit warring and failing to appropriately pursue dispute resolution." - Could an arbitrator please clarify why "incivility" is part of this probation? I don't engage in incivility.

In response to; "Any uninvolved administrator may utilize discretionary sanctions, including topic bans and blocks, to enforce this probation." - I'm not really planning on editing the pages during the probation. After all, since before the mentorship remedy finished voting, I have been making plans not to edit Misplaced Pages during the one year period. If this probation motion doesn't pass, and if a mentor is appointed, I will consider not editing for the period. I do not feel that I should edit if such a situation were to occur. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 20:10, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

In second response to; "This includes, but is not limited to, incivility, edit warring and failing to appropriately pursue dispute resolution." - And what else? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 20:45, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, I would to ask what the committee will do with term (C); "During mentorship, Mythdon is restricted from making edits such as unnecessary questions and abusive warnings to users' talk pages if not approved by their mentor. The mentor will be asked to assist them in understanding community practice to a sufficient level that continued sanctions will not be necessary." - What will happen to this with the motion? Will I still be prohibited from making these edits? What will happen? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 01:04, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

What would count as "abusive warnings to users' talk pages"? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 17:58, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

One warning should be enough. More than that would be counted as abusive. The rest should be dealt with by admins. I hope this helps. -- FayssalF - 19:58, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

So in other words, I may still post rollback warnings, but only one per user? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 20:08, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Could you please clarify what the motion means by "better communication skills"? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 18:11, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Everything related to this issue has been discussed in depth at the Arbitration case in question. -- FayssalF - 19:50, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Where? How? By who? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 19:51, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

You should be very familiar with the decision of the case which involved you --> Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ryulong#Mythdon strongly urged. -- FayssalF - 20:04, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess (B) would be replaced with your motion should it pass. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 20:08, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

No. What would be replaced with the motion is "Mythdon restricted and placed under mentorship" -a remedy which doesn't mention communication at all. I am also noting here that you are turning a blind eye to A) "To take his specific concerns about the verifiability of the articles to a wider venue such as Misplaced Pages:Village Pump, other sister WikiProjects or the Verifiability policy talk page itself and consult his views with others. He is then advised to report the views of others to WikiProject Tokusatsu for discussions". Here you are again into it without making any effort whatsoever to take your issue to the broader community. Please consider this a formal warning that any further persistence in your ideas and stances (ignoring discussing them with the wider community) which were dealt with by the arbitration case will lead to harsher measures. -- FayssalF - 20:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I know the mentorship will be terminated with this. The discussion you link . Even if the discussion were to end? Would dispute resolution still be necessary, or just move on? —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 20:37, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Look Mythdon. We are here to discuss and clarify your mentorship. The rest of the decision doesn't change. What has to change is your approach and I don't believe that is negotiable. Your approach, documented by the arbitration case and the link we are discussing here, has been wrong. Change your habits and move on. What you've just done is forget about the Tomkasu articles and targetted other sets of articles. The habits are the same; nothing changed at all. We are not playing so don't tell me that the discussion will be ended. Forget about your past problems. Failing to do that would lead to harsher measures. -- FayssalF - 20:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I did not say that the discussion ended. All I said was that a few comments were made to the discussion since then, and asked that if the discussion were to end, would dispute resolution still be necessary? It's a simple question. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 20:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

The discussion itself is part of the dispute resolution process. If the discussion at your user talk page were to end and still believe the dispute is still not resolved then you should pursue mediation. Again, and according to the said discussion, you seem to be taking a firm and not so flexible approach in total denial of the arbitration case remedy (see point A above). All what I am seeing there is you being back at your old habits and I don't believe mediation would help out if you don't forget about those habits which were addressed at the arbitration case. I hope this is clear. -- FayssalF - 22:11, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

First let me start by saying something a bit unrelated. Back in May 2009, I started this discussion at the Village Pump as I felt it would do what the ruling wanted me to do, and people voiced their views in the Village Pump. However, it wasn't until a month later that I notified WikiProject Tokusatsu of the discussion, with the discussion already archived by the time of the notification. In the Village Pump discussion, I make no reference to the case remedies, but I do bring up the remedy in the notification. That's all I'm going to say again for the moment. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 22:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Ryulong's "Addendum #2"

In response to this addendum.

First let me respond to: "I asked him in the past if he even watched the shows, and he replied that he did not" - Only twice have I made any reference to whether or not I've watched the shows. Here's the first example when I say "Well, I haven't seen the show either" as part of the statement in that diff. "The show" refers to Power Rangers: RPM in this statement. Secondly, in February 2009, Ryulong asked me if I watched Power Rangers: Mystic Force to make a judgment of a merge proposal and I told him that I did.

More responses may come soon. Thanks. —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

In response to "Seeing as he is not bringing his issues to the attention of WP:TOKU, banning him from editing these pages will be a much more effective way to curb his behavior" - The reason I haven't done this lately is due to mentorship term (D); "Mythdon shall not comment in any way (directly or indirectly) about Ryulong on any page in Misplaced Pages until a mentor is appointed and may only comment after the appointment with his mentor's prior approval.". This restriction only mentions commenting about, but former arbitrator Kirill Lokshin clarified in June 2009 that I was also restricted from making any comment to Ryulong as well, clarification here. At WT:TOKU and its archives of 2008, you'll see many comments of Ryulong replying to more than 95% of my comments on talk pages. Please take the May 24, 2009-onward comments to me more seriously. Also, take a look at Talk:Power Rangers, where Ryulong responds to a post I make after May 24, 2009 (see here). —Mythdon (talk • contribs) 00:56, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Statement by Ryulong

I've only had a few things to say to Mythdon since the close of the case on his user talk. The first one was removed without comment, the second and third were removed referring to the arbitration proceedings. I know that he's restricted from commenting about me but I really doubt he's restricted from communicating with me entirely. There is no way he and I can constructively contribute in the same topic area if he continues to ignore my statements after I have to clean up after him being overly strict with content policies, simply being entirely unknowledgable in the topic area, or treating aspects of the project more bureaucratically than they should be.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Addendum

I would like the arbitration committee to be aware of this discussion on Mythdon's user talk with three other users concerning his strict application and reading of various policies. It seems that he has moved onto other topic areas with his requests for every sentence to be referenced and whatever cannot be referenced (sans common sense or other pages) should be deleted.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 21:18, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Addendum #2

In the past several hours after seeing this edit, I've seen Mythdon, as usual, removing words, statements, or entire paragraphs of content on Power Rangers and other related pages without bringing anything up for discussion. As I cannot (apparently) leave him any sort of message concerning issues I have with his editing practices, I've been advised to append my statement here. Diffs are included below (in no particular order).

Everything in these are supported by the fictional media themselves. I asked him in the past if he even watched the shows, and he replied that he did not. I cannot understand why he continues to edit in this topic area if he does not even bother to follow the media in any form. He cannot contribute constructively in this topic area (anything under the umbrella of WP:TOKU), and frankly a topic ban would be much more worthwhile (in my opinion) rather than sticking him under various new restrictions that he will take the verbatim reading, as has shown in his knowledge of various Misplaced Pages policies. I understand the pages are not perfect, but there's no way that Mythdon has ever improved them.

Long before the arbitration case was filed, I've wanted to get Mythdon banned from the topic area, but I could never initiate the ban (or discussion) because of my deep involvement in dealing with Mythdon. Seeing as he is not bringing his issues to the attention of WP:TOKU, banning him from editing these pages will be a much more effective way to curb his behavior.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 00:16, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Addendum #3

Really? I want a one sentence answer from him and he won't do anything because of how he's interpreting the restrictions placed on him.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

And I won't get an answer. Even when I didn't even put the question on the page, he undid my null edit. This is getting fucking ridiculous.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry, now it is fucking ridiculous.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Statement by other user

Clerk notes

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Recused from the underlying case (albeit not for reasons relating to Mythdon), so I'll leave it to someone else to answer Mythdon's questions. But if I may make a suggestion, would a non-recused arbitrator volunteer to communicate directly with Mythdon to address these issues. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:06, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
• In lieu of a motion or indication to the contrary, I would expect you to be free to edit for the time being. However, I would recommend staying as far away from controversy as possible and walking away if you find yourself in a conflict. That said, I have a couple of questions. Why have you not acquired a mentor? Have you had difficulty finding someone to agree? Were you unsure of where to look or how to approach the matter? On another aspect, what areas do you feel you need the most guidance in? What sort of advice would be most helpful for you? Answering these questions will help us move forward from this point and arrange a mentoring relationship for you. --Vassyana (talk) 20:54, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

• With regret in response to the above, in the spirit of Fayssal's comments below, I am proposing a motion to replace the mentorship arrangement. It is clear that Mythdon will not work collaboratively with a mentor. --Vassyana (talk) 16:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

• Recused also from the underlying case, but I will ask the clerks to (a) link to the correct case in the title please, and (b) ensure that Ryulong is notified of this request. In view of this interaction, some further discussion may be appropriate here. Risker (talk) 20:16, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
• Following the answer(s) above by Mythdon to Vassyana's questions, I'll be asking my colleague arbitrators to pass a new motion in which Mythdon will be assigned a mentor by ArbCom. The answer(s) are/is a sign that Mythdon is not here to work collaboratively according to Misplaced Pages rules, guidelines and ArbCom's rulings. It appears that Mythdon has learned little from the ArbCom case. -- FayssalF - 21:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Motion 1

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ryulong#Mythdon restricted and placed under mentorship is vacated and replaced with the following:

Mythdon is placed under conduct probabtion

Mythdon is placed under conduct probation for one year, in relation to WikiProject Tokusatsu and Ryulong, broadly construed. This includes, but is not limited to, incivility, edit warring and failing to appropriately pursue dispute resolution.

Conduct probation enforcement

Any uninvolved administrator may utilize discretionary sanctions, including topic bans and blocks, to enforce this probation. Acting administrators are encouraged to apply sanctions tailored to the circumstances and context. For the purposes of enforcing this measure, any administrator approached directly by Ryulong for enforcement should not act directly. In such a situation, raise both Ryulong's and Mythdon's conduct in normal venues for review.

Support

1. Proposed. --Vassyana (talk) 16:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
2. Casliber (talk · contribs) 17:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
3. Any actions taken pursuant to this motion must still be logged on the case pages to allow later review. Carcharoth (talk) 00:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
4. Second choice. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:08, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
5. Second choice.  Roger Davies 02:05, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
6. Second choice. John Vandenberg 13:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

Abstain

1. Alternative motion below. -- FayssalF - 17:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Recused

1. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

As noted in a portion quoted by Mythdon, a demonstrated inability to work with a mentor may result in other sanctions. Mythdon's response to my questions illustrates that he is unwilling to accept the guidance and advice of a mentor. Rather than impose a broad topic ban that would severely impede his ability to contribute to the project, I propose this measure. It is explicitly intended to cover a broad range of behavior within the specific areas of dispute. It authorizes and encourages administrators to use their discretion to address the specific situation and context. The closing portion regarding Ryulong is a modification of the "any uninvolved admin" clause, based on the context of the arbitration case. This should permit Mythdon to continue contributing, while providing the project administrators with the tools to resolve any issues quickly and appropriately. --Vassyana (talk) 16:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Motion 2

Motion enacted - Tiptoety 19:22, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ryulong#Mythdon restricted and placed under mentorship is vacated and replaced with the following:

Mythdon is placed under conduct probabtion

Mythdon is placed under conduct probation for one year, in relation to WikiProject Tokusatsu and Ryulong, broadly construed. This includes, but is not limited to, edit warring and failing to appropriately pursue dispute resolution and to show better communication skills. Mythdon will still be restricted from making edits such as unnecessary questions and abusive warnings to users' talk pages.

Conduct probation enforcement

Any uninvolved administrator may utilize discretionary sanctions, including topic bans and blocks, to enforce this probation. Acting administrators are encouraged to apply sanctions tailored to the circumstances and context. For the purposes of enforcing this measure, any administrator approached directly by Ryulong for enforcement should not act directly. In such a situation, raise both Ryulong's and Mythdon's conduct in normal venues for review.

Support

1. FayssalF - 17:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
2. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:16, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
3. First choice. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:08, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
4. First choice.  Roger Davies 02:05, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
5. First choice. John Vandenberg 13:12, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
6. Since this level of detail is needed, first choice. --Vassyana (talk) 02:12, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

Abstain

Recused

1. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:02, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

This alternative motion addresses Mythdon's response and questions concerning the above motion. -- FayssalF - 17:12, 17 July 2009 (UTC)