Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Nishkid64 (talk | contribs) at 21:41, 7 September 2009 (→Blocked: whoops, fix link.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Demographics of Kabul province

The population of Kabul province in 2006 was roughly 2,425,067. Here is a quote from Kabul' Provincial Profile - MRRD

"Around 19% of the population of Kabul lives in rural districts while 81% lives in urban areas. Around 51% of the population is male and 49% is female. Pashtu is spoken by around sixty percent of the population and Dari is spoken by around forty percent. A small number of people located in 5 villages speaks Pashaie."

Lets use the official numbers and percentages in wikipedia (Ketabtoon (talk) 18:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC))

Afghan Mellat

It makes sense to call Afghan Mellat Party a self declared Socialist pary, but why is it ethnocentric? You cannot just use another person's personal views as your source. You are very welcome to visit the party's website and read their manifesto/agenda/mission statement. You can read Farsi/Dari. Here is Afghan Mellat's مرامنامه in Dari .

I will delete the "Ethnocentrism" word from the infobox, but will keep the (self-declared Socialism and Social democracy) part. It is an encyclopedia/wikipedia and your informations should be based on facts not personal opinions - specially when you can. (Ketabtoon (talk) 18:22, 22 July 2009 (UTC))

Wikipedians should try to read Misplaced Pages's policy regarding Neutral point of view

Right now there is no way we can call this a neutral article. For more information please read:

• Neutrality disputes and handling
  • Neutrality and verifiability

I will quote the first paragraph from Neutrality and Verifiability "A common type of dispute occurs when an editor asserts that a fact is both verifiable and cited, and should therefore be included. In these types of disputes, it is important to note that verifiability lives alongside neutrality: it does not override it. A matter that is both verifiable and supported by reliable sources might nonetheless be used in a way that is not neutral."

Here is another quote from the same place:

"Verifiability is only one content criterion. Neutral point of view is a core policy of Misplaced Pages, mandatory, non-negotiable, and to be followed in all articles." and another interesting point that is mentioned there, "Concerns related to undue weight, non-neutral fact selection and wording, and advancing a personal view, are not addressed even slightly by asserting that the matter is verifiable and cited."

The policy can be read http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Article_naming (Ketabtoon (talk) 20:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC))

Salam

Welcome back. I will be back in the beginning of October but please make sure to follow guidelines. Piruz Baashid! --Nepaheshgar 21:37, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films coordinator elections - voting now open!

The September 2008 WikiProject Films coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting seven coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of candidates. Additionally, we are keeping nominations open during the voting period, in case any additional editors wish to nominate themselves. Please vote here by September 28!

Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 01:24, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Taj language order

Thanks for being such a pleasant wiki-editor. I appreciate it. -nemonoman (talk) 12:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at Aurangzeb. I have absolutely given up, it's such a mess. Perhaps you'd have better luck. --nemonoman (talk) 16:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back

Happy to see you again in Misplaced Pages--Larno (talk) 00:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Work work!

We need to team up on some more articles, the Afghan articles could use tons of improvement. --Enzuru 17:05, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I understand your limitation, so if anyone is trying to pick fights, just tell me. Pashtuns are stubborn, we generally win edit wars (I've never lost one so far, though I did concede like two because I realized I was wrong). --Enzuru 20:20, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I am a practicing Shi'a Muslimah. There aren't many Shi'a Pashtuns (we are mainly concentrated in Kabul and Peshawar) but I am one of them! --Enzuru 00:19, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, nice. Are you Usuli? --Enzuru 05:59, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Excellent

I very much like what you did with the demonym in the infobox on Afghanistan. It is definitely more clear than that solution on which everyone had reached a stalemate. Cheers and happy editing! Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Tājik (talk) 23:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Persianate Society

If you have time, can you check the article. It needed some editing and someone is doing it. But some of the quotes were removed, and I think it is better to summarize them where possible. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 13:13, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll try. Tājik (talk) 14:30, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Qizilbash

Thanks for your comments about my edit to the Qizilbash article. If you are quoting from a source it should be in quotes. I am not discussing what the source says, I am talking about "best usage" in a Misplaced Pages article. This is the lead section of a Misplaced Pages article. The lead should avoid quotations and be a brief summary of the content of the article and state the importance of the topic. See Misplaced Pages:Lead_section. --Bejnar (talk) 23:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

If you prefer "extremist", then you should delete "militant". Both are not necessary, and it gives a POV tone to the sentence.--Bejnar (talk) 23:47, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Status of Persian

Dear Tajik you removed Persian as official in Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. That is correct when you only regard the national official language. Seemingly Uzbekistan recognizes Tajiki as a regional language and the univesity of Samarkand teaches it and also regulates it somehow. Turkmenistan seemingly recognized Dari as a regional language. In Afghanistan Dari was at times co-official and at times repressed. I do not know the exact situation now, although still the Pashtun dominate Afghanistan--Babakexorramdin (talk) 19:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC) Dear Tajik are you going to adress these questions? If not I suggest to revert your edits back on the Persian language. It is of no use to minimize the extent of Persian language--Babakexorramdin (talk) 16:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!

since you are German citizen from Afghanistan

Hello. Since you are a German citizen from Afghanistan, I thought these two articles might be of interest to you:

• Afghanistan–Germany relations
• Afghans in Germany

Uh oh!

Someone brought up to an administrator that I might be a sockpuppet of you! The administrator said it wasn't true because we were in different countries. --Enzuru 19:33, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Really? Where? Tājik (talk) 20:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Right here! --Enzuru 19:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, yes. That's User:NisarKand. He believes that everyone who opposes him is a sockpuppet. He is a banned user. Do not worry about him. Tājik (talk) 21:39, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

List of notable Tajiks

Please visit Talk:Tajiks#List of Tajiks: it seems to have been waiting for your verdict since January 2007. There are basically two options: (a) incorporate the list as a separate section in Tajiks or (b) create a new List of notable Tajiks (linking to it from Tajiks). Once we decide on either of these options, interested editors can start refining the lists -- but I think a decision is needed. What's your view? Regards, --Zlerman (talk) 06:38, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Tajik

The issue is, as I've pointed out before, you sometimes try to minimize the differences between these groups in a way that I feel constitutes Pan-Iranism. I agree, in a historical context they may have not been so different, but as for as anthropologists are concerned today, they are a separate group, and the Tajiks of Afghanistan and elsewhere are a single group, hence the same name. I am going to add a source for my statement and put it back in, but perhaps we could reword it together. --Enzuru 22:20, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The best thing we can do is depend on contemporary sources. So I am going to try to start doing that with whatever I put into the article. I have access to Britannica, so if you would like, I can paste material of it to you through e-mail, if you have any articles you want to see. --Enzuru 22:27, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Of course, we could try to improve the wording of the intro. But saying that "Tajiks are a distinct group from other Persian-speakers" is not really correct. I can send you the article "Tajik" from the Encyclopaedia of Islam (written by C.E. Bosworth). The article's intro is:

• "... TĀDJĪK, the later form of a word Tāzīk or Tāžīk used in the Iranian and Turkish worlds. In Islamic usage, it eventually came to designate the Persians, as opposed to the Turks. ..."

The most important part of the article, however, is:

• "... In Afghānistān, to the present day, it is the Persian-speaking, traditionally sedentary, and in no way tribally-bound population that is called Tādjīk. As a self-designation this term, which earlier on had been more or less pejorative, has become acceptable during the last twenty years, particularly as a conscious and comprehensive delimitation of Persian-speaking Afghāns. The self-designation of Persian-speakers in Afghānistān had been for a long time most commonly Fārsīwān, Fārsībān, or Fārsīgū(y). However, even today Tādjīk does not comprise all Persian-speaking groups in Afghānistān; it has obviously preserved a socio-cultural semantic component. The Uzbeks in northern Afghānistān, mostly bilingual and thus also Persianspeaking, consider themselves, as can be expected, clearly distinct from the Tādjīk, and so do the Persianspeaking Shī'ī Hazāra and some other tribes. Until today, under the influence of the ethnographers, a meaning of the term Tādjīk has been preserved in scholarly literature on regions outside the Republic of Tajikistan, one which corresponds closely to the concept of the Russian colonial administration. This may be helpful as a convention among scholars, but has little to do with the historical and the modern meanings of the term and the self-understanding of the Tādjīk. ..."

Your claim that my edit was "Pan-Iranist" is quite unfair. One could flip the coint and say that your edit is "anti-Persian" and "propagation of Soviet colonial models". But that would be wrong and unfair as well. Tājik (talk) 22:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Even today Tādjīk does not comprise all Persian-speaking groups in Afghānistān, this is precisely my belief. Of course they don't! Look at groups like the Hazara or even the native speaking Dari Pashtuns. In fact, my tribe the Muhammadzai have a close relationship with Dari. To be honest, I don't see where we are disagreeing here. But I apologize if you found my Pan-Iranist comment rude. As far as your Encyclopedia Islam quote, it does seem to prove that this is a recent innovation. And that should be stated! But by no means should it be stated that in a modern context that these groups are considered the same thing. In fact, you might want to go ahead and put into the article that the phrase Tajik in Afghanistan is a recent innovation. But, in the end, we have to stick and expand about how it is understood in modern terms. For now, I will leave out the but distinct part, I haven't been able to find a source for it. --Enzuru 22:38, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

From your points, I think you are right about this. Perhaps we should work on moving Tajik to the Persian-speakers of Afghanistan and turn this into an article about etymology? You should talk to other Persian and Afghani editors to see their views on this. --Enzuru 22:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The Twelve Imams

While that is a good point, the reason we combined them was essentially two reasons: to give both the Turkish and Arabic Shi'a groups equal footing (for example, we are using Alevi pictures), and second and more importantly, we tried to eliminate as many columns as we could. Too many columns is bad, so as you can see, we went out of our way to combine anything that was even slightly related. --Enzuru 19:38, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

RE: Persians, Tajiks, Central Asia

I have responded on my talk page. Hope you don't mind. --Zlerman (talk) 02:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Persian speaking people of Iran

I had a very superficial glance at this article to get the drift of things. The infobox should be renamed to reflect the full title of the article -- not just generically "Persian speaking people". Furthermore, how do we interpret the country numbers in the infobox? What does "Tajikistan 31,000" actually mean? What does "UK 275,000" mean? Is this "Iranians" only (as the article title implies) or is it "Persian speakers" of all origins (as the infobox title implies)? I am sure you have the answers for that, but from the outside it is not very clear. --Zlerman (talk) 06:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

You replied on my talk page: "RE Persian-speakers of Iran: Hi Zlerman. To be honest: I have no clue. Some users simply copied that infobox from a previous version of Persian people. I believe that "Persian-speakers of Iran" should be defined as "people speaking Persian as their first language", nothing more and nothing less. I really do not know what the other numbers say. Cheers. Tājik (talk) 06:46, 23 November 2008 (UTC)"

Quite frankly, if this is the state of our knowledge, I would hesitate to go ahead with the major changes you are contemplating without much more careful thinking, planning, and discussion among editors. You mentioned the Encyclopedia of Islam article as an example of what Tajiks should become like (you called it a "solely etymological" article). I do not have access to Encyclopedia of Islam. Can you give me a link to this article or alternatively send me an electronic file with the text of the article? My e-mail is on User:Zlerman. This will help me enormously to understand what you are aiming to achieve. Problem solved. Regards. --Zlerman (talk) 07:40, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I have responded to your latest on my talk page. Regards, --Zlerman (talk) 17:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

• While thinking about your proposal for a new classification of Persian people, I find that I need your views on the division between Persian-speakers of Iran and Iranian peoples. The two articles are different in format and style. Are they different in substance? Do you think both should be kept as separate articles, or perhaps they should be combined into one? I get a nagging feeling of tautology when I read the title "Persian-speakers of Iran".
• On the subject of "Persian-speakers of Central Asia" as a replacement for Tajiks, please read the broad definition of Central Asia in this article. It covers practically everything that the article Tajiks covers in its present form, including Afghanistan and Western China. Given this definition of Central Asia, can we split between Persian-speakers of Afghanistan and Persian-speakers of "Central Asia"? Or am I missing something in your typology?

Regards, --Zlerman (talk) 16:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Your example with "German" vs "Germanic" and "English" vs "Germanic" is very helpful, of course. But you yourself use the term "Iranic" in your reply to my question. Had the article been called "Iranic people", there would have been no problem. But "Iranian" sounds like a direct adjective for Iran: we have Iranian cuisine and even "Iranian kabab" in one of the food articles. I imagine "Iranian people" and "Iranian languages" is the universally accepted terminology in the sense of "Iranic" as you raise it in your reply, and this is unchangeable, correct? --Zlerman (talk) 16:56, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

"Light-haired Tajiks"

In the article Tajiks please check the following sentence: "Light hair and eyes are relatively common, particularly in northern regions such as Badakhshan, Tajikistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan and western China." Is this statement correct, or does it apply only to Badakhshan, as PakistaniNisar suggests in his recent edits? Thanks, --Zlerman (talk) 01:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

The user is correct. Fair complexions are usually (!) limited to isolated regions in the mountains and valleys. Badakhshan is such an isolated region. Tājik (talk) 21:05, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply. I accepted PakistaniNisar's position yesterday, after a long search through the history of the article (see my note on his talk page). But now Kingturtle seems to disagree: let's hope eventually the text will settle down to the correct version. Regards, --Zlerman (talk) 01:33, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

And now also Scythian77 disagrees (08:29)... --Zlerman (talk) 09:04, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Scroll boxes

I see that you don't like scroll boxes in Misplaced Pages articles either. See Misplaced Pages:Citing_sources#Scrolling_lists for current policy. For some odd reason it is better to cite policy than good solid reasoning. TenOfAllTrades said on 11 December 2007 "There was a discussion on the Village Pump a while ago that led to a consensus not to use scrolling reference boxes in articles (feel free to use them in your userspace, if you like)." I didn't find the Village Pump discussion, but other discussions are at Wikipedia_talk:Footnotes/Archive_7#scroll_box_for_references and Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources/Archive_18#Scrolling_Reference_List. I am surprised that reflist4 still works. --Bejnar (talk) 22:57, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

"سید اکرام الدین " طاهری

Can you read this? http://koofi.net/Political_Analist/Naqsh_Junasiyan..htm It is supposed to be about the renaming of Kabul University. --Bejnar (talk) 03:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Atashgah of Baku

Atashgah of Baku

http://en.wikipedia.org/Atashgah_of_Baku

You are needed here. Despite the abundance of Local Azeri Zoroastrian accounts, some Indians push still theire POV--Babakexorramdin (talk) 13:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

arab speaking needed

hi tajik. do you know of any arabic speaking non-anti-persian user or admin of wikipedia? the articles on avvecina, farabi, .. and most of persian scholars on ar.wikipedia are being changed regularly and now, as opposed to earlier versions, do not refer to them as persian and even the persian categories coming at the bottom of articles have been removed. the changes come from multiple user and ip addresses from egypt i guess. if you know of someone who can fix these things i will appreciate.--Xashaiar (talk) 00:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Persian-speakers of Afghanistan

Do you want to start on this article? Do you think we could manage to get it started? --Enzuru 23:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to find a correct title (I need to make sure this phrase is used in Britannica or Iranica) and then start on it using that source. Any suggestions? --Enzuru 01:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I urge you not to do it piecemeal. We already have Persian-speakers of Iran and there are conceptual problems with that article. I think that before creating another "Persian-speakers" article in the group we need to discuss in detail what we are going to do with the existing content in Tajiks, what new articles will be created to replace it, and how the information is going to be apportioned. Perhaps this can be done in the form of drafts in userspace sandboxes for purposes of discussion and evaluation. Given the heat and flames that surround Tajiks, I am not sure that the piecemeal approach with ad hoc creation of "Persian-speakers" will help. --Zlerman (talk) 02:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your response on my talk page adopting the sandbox approach. This is excellent. You may remember that I have previously expressed my concerns about the term "Central Asia", because of the very fuzzy and ambiguous definition of this region. If you look in the latest List of cuisines, for instance, you will see that Afghanistan is treated as part of Central Asia -- and there are many other sources that do likewise. This terminological complication will need to be considered and allowed for if you develop Persian-speakers of Central Asia. I look forward to reading the sandbox versions. --Zlerman (talk) 03:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Iran, Afghanistan, and even South-East Asia are all fine with me (probably because I know so little about them). With regard to Central Asia, however, I think you will need to poll the opinions of the Tajikistan community on WikiProject Tajikistan and also on WikiProject Central Asia. You have to ask them how they are going to react to being classified as Persian-speakers of Central Asia -- instead of Tajiks. Their national sensitivities are not less important than those of Tajiks in Afghanistan and Iran. Just off the top of my head: perhaps we should have Tajiks of Central Asia (with a redirect from Persian-speakers of Central Asia). --Zlerman (talk) 03:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

The main point of my comment above is not Tajiks of Central Asia: this was just a half-baked afterthought. The main point is the need to put the suggestion for Persian-speakers of Central Asia up for discussion on the relevant WikiProjects: Tajikistan and Central Asia. I hope you agree to that. Also, if you don't mind my saying so, we probably need to expand our horizon beyond Encyclopedia of Islam and Encyclopedia Iranica and include sources from other cultural and ethnic domains to decide on this potentially sensitive issue. But again, this is an aside: the main point is to have a discussion on Tajikistan and Central Asia projects about the name of the article. Is this acceptable? --Zlerman (talk) 04:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

You rightly say on my talk page, "I have nothing against other sources, but we should stick to the Encyclopaedia Iranica and Encyclopaedia of Islam, because these two scholastic sources are the two most important and most trusted standard reference works of Iranian studies." This is precisely the point: I guess what I am saying is that when talking about the "Tajiks of Central Asia" (don't take me literally on this phrase) we probably need to go beyond Iranian studies. There is a voluminous Russian literature, for instance, on these peoples since neolithic times. As to the term "Persian-speakers" (another aside from me), please bear in mind that the Constitution of Tajikistan defines their language as "the Tajik language", and so "Tajik-speakers of Central Asia" may be equally valid. But I think we can stop at this stage and see how the sandbox versions develop. Regards. --Zlerman (talk) 04:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I think the three articles should be merged unto one under Persian speakers. Tajik/Persian are the same language and same culture. But if they are to be separated Tajiks of Central Asia should also include Tajiks in Uzbekistan who according to unofficial numbers vary between 20-40% of Uzbekistan's population. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 00:40, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

We already have two overall articles: Persian people and Persian language. What we need is specific articles about Persian-speakers in certain regions and countries. Persian-speakers of Iran is an informative article. Based on that article, we also need Persian-speakers of Afghanistan, Persian-speakers of Central Asia, and Persian-speakers of South Asia. Tājik (talk) 01:15, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Plus, Pashtun Persian-speakers have little to nothing in common with Persian-speakers in Iran. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 06:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Anatolian Turkish

Anatolian Turkish has absolutely no relevance in this article. It is a different language, and belongs to the Oghuz branch of Turkic languages. The difference is as big as between German and English. Besides that, the modern Anatolian language was developed in the 20th century due to Ataturk's language reform. Tājik (talk) 14:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi, if you delete Anatolian Turkish translation, why didn't you delete Hungarian translation. Is it relevant?--Saltinbas (talk) 07:35, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Tajiks in Kyrgyzstan

I am going over the population censuses of the Central Asian countries to see where we find Tajiks outside Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. In Kyrgyzstan (the 1999 census), I see 43,000 Tajiks and also 52,000 Dungans and 47,000 Uygurs (out of about 5 million total population). Now, as far as I understand, Dungans and Uygurs are not Persian-speakers. So who exactly are the Tajiks of western China? Where do you suggest I look to find systematic information about them? --Zlerman (talk) 03:36, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Tajiks of China are not Persian-speakers and they are distinct from "Tajiks". They are speakers of East Iranian languages. Tājik (talk) 03:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

OK, so where do you plan to fit the Tajiks of China in your proposed scheme of Iran/Afghanistan/Central Asia? How will they be reflected, if they are called Tajiks but are not part of the Persian-speaking category? Or am I missing some nuances here? --Zlerman (talk) 03:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

That's exactly one of the reasons why I want to create those article. The Tajiks of China will be called what they are called in China: "Tajiks". However, this has to be explained in the etymological article "Tajik". The Persian-speakers of Afghanistan who are also known as "Tajiks" are ethnically and linguistically distinct from the "Tajiks of China". The problem is: although Persians in Iran, Afghanistan, and Central Asia speak the same language and consider themselves part of the same cultrue and history, they are known by many different names: Persian, Tajik, Farsiwan, Ajam, Sart, Irani, etc. At the same time, a totally distinct ethnci group - the Sariqoli- and Wakhi-speakers of China - are also known as "Tajiks". It's a big mess. And what about the "Tajiks of Kyrgyzstan"? Are they really Persian-speakers or are they part of the Sariqoli-/Wakhi group (Pamiri languages)? Tājik (talk) 03:59, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Overhauls to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Afghanistan

I've made huge overhauls to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Afghanistan. I'd love your help, can you add yourself as an active member here: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Afghanistan/Members. --Enzuru 03:45, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Tajiks in China have become Pamiris in China

Please check what User:Banigul is doing to Tajiks in China. --Zlerman (talk) 13:32, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

January 2009

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/NisarKand. When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the text has been restored, as you can see from the page history. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. DFS454 (talk) 16:59, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Khalilullah Khalili

Did you actually look at those citations that you restored in the Khalilullah Khalili article and my discussion of them on the talk page? For starters, one of them has no title, no author and no page number. --Bejnar (talk) 22:26, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to remove them. But please do not restore the claim that he belonged to the Safi tribe as long as the dispute is not over. Regards. Tājik (talk) 22:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

There are good sources for his Safi origins, and even 84.59.202.75 agreed. The disagreement was about what Safi meant. 84.59.202.75 presented no sources for the Tajik orgin of Safi, while the tribal origin has sources back before 1700. --Bejnar (talk) 05:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Weird person

Make sure to refute these claims here, if you wish to do so. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 07:50, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Behnam?!

Alishah was really the Behnam guy?! I thought he was just kinda slow, I didn't think he had any bad intentions. I even gave him an award because I thought he was trying very hard to learn Misplaced Pages policies, I feel really bad now. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 08:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

lol cool, "Southern Pashtuns" are people of the day, unless they don't update it daily. I'm having trouble enough convincing Pashtuns of Shi'a Islam! --♥pashtun ismailiyya 04:58, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps Review of Afghanistan

As you've been a major contributor to this article, you may be interested to know that == Good article reassessment for Afghanistan == Afghanistan has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. --Malleus Fatuorum 17:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Wusun

Dear Tajik: Sorry I have taken so long to get back to you - but I have not been well. It looks as if I will probably have to go soon for an operation to my spine as some vertebrae have collapsed and are pressing on the spinal cord - very painful and crippling! Anyway, I made a few minor changes this morning to some of the more offensive material in the section on the physical descriptions of the Wusun. Please let me know what you think. Much more work needs to be done to bring the article up to standard, though. Will try to get back to it when I can. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Cheers and best wishes, John Hill (talk) 01:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

You are correct

Your convention for the naming is better.--Nepaheshgar (talk) 19:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi

Hi! Dont get me wrong... I actually agree with you that the content is to long... Just give me some time to shorten it... because I believe that there is some important information in there... If you are still unsatisfied afterwards then let me know :D!. Turco85 (talk) 13:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Iranian peoples

Can you please point me to these insults? Khoikhoi 20:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Tajiks in China: a word of explanation?

Perhaps a short explanation about "Tajiks in China" should be added for the uninitiated in Tajiks#China. I personally find the situation confusing. --Zlerman (talk) 02:37, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks for your reply on my talk page. I am slowly beginning to grasp the complexities of the "Tajiks in China". It is for this reason that, in my opinion, you should add one or two sentences under Tajiks#China explaining how these "Tajiks" are different from Persian-speaking Tajiks. Your authoritative statement will block untutored editors from inserting incorrect information into the China section of Tajiks in the future. Regards, --Zlerman (talk) 11:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

minor edits

Hi,

Before doing minor edits (like this), please look at the history. Minor edits on a vandalized version is useless. Alefbe (talk) 14:58, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Happy Nowruz

Afghanistan Map

That map unfortunately is not accurate either. It lacks scores of languages. It does not even list Tirahi, Tangshewi, etc. As an academic linguistics map, it simply is not detailed enough. Here are two academic maps:

http://www.princeton.edu/~humcomp/Iranpeoples.gif

http://www.indiana.edu/~afghan/maps/afghanistan_ethnolinguistic_map_1997.jpg

The map you source is from 1985 and made by the former communist government of Afghanistan and thus I have to question its accuracy. It is not made by linguists and Pashto is for sure under represented. Although, I will be making changes to the Afghanistan map to show more bilingual areas with Pashto and Dari, etc soon. Azalea pomp (talk) 00:10, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I have changed his map quite a lot from the original. I will make more changes though so Afghanistan matches the ones I sourced better. Azalea pomp (talk) 00:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I will give precedence to the maps shown on the academic sources, but I will look at the other map in making any edits. Maps on academic sites do take precedence over government ones. Azalea pomp (talk) 00:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for Iranica Map link

I will be using that map now to make changes to the Afghanistan part of the map. The Iranica map is much much better than the Communist government map. Azalea pomp (talk) 00:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

The Iranica map and the Afghan map don't contradict each-other. The Iranica map is about the ethnic groups, not exacly the languages, and it's based on Dupree's work around 1970. Many of Pashtuns are nowadays Persian-speaking and some areas with Pashtun amjority can have a Persian-speaking majority (Pashtun majority doesn't necessarily mean Pashto-speaking majority). Alefbe (talk) 01:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Well bilingualism is going to be common. In any event, the map would be a mess if it included Persian bilingualism in Iran and Afghanistan. The whole map would have to me hatch marked and thus unreadable. One can assume much of Iran is bilingual in Persian as well. Azalea pomp (talk) 02:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

What I mentioned, about Pashtuns and Pashto, wasn't about bilingualism (I meant their first language). For a sizable population of Pashtuns, the first language is Persian, not Pashto (they are counted as Pashtun, based on their paternal ancestry, not based on their language). That's the main source of the difference between the Iranica map and the Afghan linguistic map. Alefbe (talk) 02:50, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I know of Pashtuns who speak Persian as their first language. Wasn't the late King, M. Zahir Shah a Persian speaking Pashtun? I still need an academic source which claims this though. The Afghan map from 1985 is still missing many many languages (where are the Pamir languages?!) which makes me question its accuracy. The maps I found on academic sites (including the Iranica map) are more accurate. Academic material always trumps government material for wikipedia. Can you give me an academic source which states that Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan and those on the border with Iran are Persian first languages speakers? Linguistically, Afghanistan is heavily lacking in research though. Pashto dialect studies in Afghanistan are woefully thin. I will likely have to hatch mark the border areas of Iran and Afghanistan to show bilingualism. Azalea pomp (talk) 03:13, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I will have an updated map in a few hours or more. Azalea pomp (talk) 00:48, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

New section on Iranian languages talk page

Check out the new section about the map. Thanks Azalea pomp (talk) 04:50, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Pashtuns on Iranian peoples

Could you join us here: , thanks! --♥pashtun ismailiyya 17:52, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Pashto language

Hi. In your last revision of Pashto language some of the edits are not constructive, and I restored the previous version. Normally before such a bold change to an article, as you did with Pashto language, it is considered important and polite to explain why you feel that the material is incorrect or inappropriate for the article. Massagetae (talk) 07:33, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

دعوت به انجمن فارسی

سلام. ما در انجمن فارسی‌مان کسی که فارسی تاجیکی بداند کم داریم. خوشحال می‌شوم به انجمن ما بپیوندید و به پرسش‌هایی که در مورد این گویش فارسی داریم پاسخ بدهید. اگر کس دیگری را نیز می‌شناسید لطفن دعوت کنید. پیشاپیش سپاس‌گزارم. --Alijsh (talk) 05:31, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

You are correct

Please see this article in Iranica . I think I will rename that page. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 04:41, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Bally, salaam

Hi, Tajik. Nice to see you editing again. I was just talking about you, not really an issue that will interest you, but it's my most recent edits. Keep up the good work editing articles on Central Asia, but stop thinking of Iranica as so authorative!!!!!!! Salaam, --KP Botany (talk) 03:38, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Translation request, please

Greetings Mr. Tajik,

Could you kindly help me translate these two passages into the splendid Pashto language? Please.

"The Second Coming of Jesus will take place on the Last Day when He descends from heaven to judge the world: the righteous will receive eternal life, while the wicked will be eternally condemned".

"Salvation is given by the grace of God through faith. Believers must rely on the Holy Spirit to pursue holiness, to honour God, and to love humanity".

Your help would be Appreciated very much, Thankyou. (In return, I can help you translate your favourite article into the Chinese language). --A-eng (talk) 06:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Shi'a Islam among Iranian peoples

While we still need to continue the issue of classifying Persian-speaking peoples in Afghanistan, another idea came to me recently. We should have an article about Shi'a Islam among Iranian peoples. We can go into very important parts of history, for Twelvers the arrival of I believe Imam Ali al-Ridha in Iran and Afghanistan, and the Safavid Empire, and for Ismaili Alamut, the Fatimid Dawah to Hazara and Tajiks in Afghanistan/Tajikistan by Nasir i-Khusraw (today Nizari Ismailiyya from these areas are called Nasiriyya after him as opposed to the Satpanthi you find in South Asia), and to Pashtuns from the short lived Multan Empire. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 21:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

that is a good idea for an article. It can start with Salman Farsi.--Nepaheshgar (talk) 04:30, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Kabul

Take a look at the recent edit history and edits by User:119.73.2.116 (and other IPs that he uses). Alefbe (talk) 17:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Persian people

Hi. Just wanted to let you know that I've temporariy re-added the tags to the aforementioned article, as they are legitimate concerns. You might want to consult WP:3O if discussion on the article's talk page fails to resolve the dispute. Cheers, –Juliancolton |  14:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the message. I will have a look at it. Tajik (talk) 19:39, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

IR-AFG

Please do not remove whole articles as this is considered vandalism, if you have anything to add or edit please feel free to edit but removing pages are valid. cheers

Our new editor

It seems everytime I notice a new editor editing the articles pertaining to Afghanistan, they tend more or not, to believe in disqualified race theory, folk legends, and paranormal origins for Pashtuns. It has becoming rather frustrating. When will we be getting an editor who can actually improve articles relating to Afghanistan? Every new editor tends to favour Pashtunization of all Afghanistan-related articles as well. --Afghana 07:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Just thought I would keep you updated on our friend. And yes they are talking about spreading awareness of "white" Pashtuns. *blinks* --Afghana 11:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it honestly possible that User:Kurdo777 is Beh-nam or all those other puppets? That makes no sense. He had extensively edited articles relating to Kurds: none of the other editors in hand did that! This doesn't seem right. --Afghana 15:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

In addition, if you really are running all these sock puppets, you're extremely uncoordinated and oppose yourself on many issues, meaning you've done such a good job at hiding that you've impeded your own goals. The entire thing seems odd. --Afghana 15:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Pashto langauge

I have left my comment on the talk page. Might I remind you that as per the terms of your unblock, you are required to discuss content reversions on their talk page. I noted a few instances where you failed to do so: twice on Meydan Shahr and once on Kapisa Province. Please be mindful that if you violate the terms outlined by Coren, you may be blocked. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 12:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I can tell you as an outside observer the edits to Meydan Shar and Kapisa Province were not reversions of vandalism or bad faith edits. It's apparent that Massagetae wholeheartedly believes his version is accurate, which throws this into the field of content disputes. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 17:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Re:Pashto & Kabuli

Hello Tajik. I realize the term is ambiguous which is why I added a footnote for it. If you give me the URL for Encyclopaedia Iranica's article, I can add it in the footnote. Also, I am not only using the Census of India but a source from the GRN, which I have just recently added. I hope this helps. Thanks, Anupam 20:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. After I just checked the article, I found out that User:Massagetae found another reference to support the inclusion of "Kabuli" in the lead. I think that it would be best to get the opinions of other editors on the issue before making a final decision. I personally am not hidebound to keep the term in the article. However, if it is of merit to keep it in the article, I am okay with that too. Best wishes, Anupam 23:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Accidentally deleted your contribution?

Copied reply: Tajik, there is/was no edit war on that page; I was simply removing vandalism from a new user due to a recent news event. I'm sorry if I deleted something that you put in, and as the page is semi-protected you can still make whatever change you wanted. Fuzbaby (talk) 18:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

History of Greater Iran

I tried fixing around with it, but since you create it, can you take a look. --Nepaheshgar (talk) 00:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Maidan Shar

I have given you 2 government sources in the discussion page of Maidan Shar article. One of these sources is the official website of Wardag Province. Still, I have not deleted the Persion translation of the name because 15% of the district are Persian speakers and they call it Maydan Shahr - ميدان شهر and I respect that.

http://www.ketabtoon.net/ketaboona/Wardag_qawm_seema_BOOK.pdf is a book about Wardag Province and Wardag People. The book is in Pashto, but if you can read farsi than you will be able to read Pashto as well. Scroll down to Page 26 and see how they have written the name of Maidan Shar. We can use the book as another source. (Ketabtoon (talk) 18:27, 25 July 2009 (UTC))

Afghanistan

Thanks for the heads-up. I will respect your request. Green Giant (talk) 11:06, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Shindand

I try my best to keep my edits as neutral as possible. However, I expect the same from other users as well. (Ketabtoon (talk) 15:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC))

WP:ANI

Hi there! Just dropping by to let you know that you're the topic of a recent section at the administrator's noticeboard. Cheers, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :D} 01:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Um, anyway, I'd like to notify you of this, while we're at it.

85.96.138.241 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has violated WP:3RR on Great Seljuq Empire () and Ghaznavids (). I think he should be reverted. Perhaps a semi-protection could help. Tajik (talk) 21:29, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

This noticeboard is for obvious vandals and spammers only. Consider taking this report to Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Daniel Case (talk) 22:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

The record of this is here. I removed it, to reduce clutter. Best, ceranthor 00:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: Amir Kror Suri

The tags were set in place because the article was missing reliable sources. I have provided 3 foreign and 3 Afghan sources. As I mentioned, it is a different case that YOU do not like the sources. I have already asked for a third person's opinion Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard (Ketabtoon (talk) 21:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC))

reminder...

I want to remind you of this. I realize it says excepting obvious vandalism, but please be extremely cautious about making any reverts. It may be better, in fact, for someone else to revert vandalism you find. Thanks, Kingturtle (talk) 23:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Babur

Thank you for your response, i've left a message on the talk page. Instead of resorting to one click reverts lets work together on improving the article. Xaghan (talk) 16:08, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Warrior4321 13:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Your double standard on Iranian peoples and Hazara people

In this edit on iranian peoples, you restored a section which said azeris and uzbeks are iranian peoples even though they speak turkic language because they descend from iranian peoples. In this edit on Talk:Hazara people, you say language is the main factor for ethnic identiy in the middle east, so you could claim hazaras are iranian peoples, but Hazaras are descended from mongols, and therefore not iranian.Time Buddha (talk) 21:41, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Blocked

For a continuing pattern of not discussing content reversions, as required by your Arbitration hearing, I am blocking you for 1 week. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 16:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Hold on a second. I am not supposed to explain reverts of obvious vandalism. Removing Hazaras from the article Iranian peoples is vandalism, and the user refused to accept the sources given to him. Parallel to this event, there has been a long discussion in the German Misplaced Pages regarding the definition of "Iranian peoples" and this is the result. The article is based on the scholarly article of the Encyclopaedia Iranica and, by that definition, the Hazara people are part of the larger Iranian ethno-linguistic group. Keeping that aside, I did explain my reverts on the talk-page(s): . I even contacted him on his talk-page and asked him not to falsify sources. I really do not understand why you have blocked me. Tajik (talk) 21:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

1. http://www.mrrd.gov.af/nabdp/Provincial%20Profiles/Kabul%20PDP%20Provincial%20profile.pdf
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Article_naming