Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Pitchka (talk | contribs) at 23:48, 15 December 2005. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome from Redwolf24

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We as a community are glad to have you and thank you for creating a user account! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The Five Pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page
• Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
• Picture tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Naming conventions
• Manual of Style
• Merging, redirecting, and renaming pages
• If you're ready for the complete list of Misplaced Pages documentation, there's also Misplaced Pages:Topical index.

Yes some of the links appear a bit boring at first, but they are VERY helpful if you ever take the time to read them.

Remember to place any articles you create into a category so we don't get orphans.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome.

Redwolf24 (Talk) 04:19, 22 July 2005 (UTC) The current date and time is 13 January 2025 T 21:16 UTC.

P.S. I like messages :-P

Edit summary protocol

Hi: Please avoid edit summaries that are critical of a person (such as "…after Emico's biased edit"). They violate our policy on civility and I would ask you to consider how you would feel if someone said that they did something "after Ironbrew's biased edit". You know that all articles related to INC are the subject of high emotion and we need to make conscious efforts to keep our discussions calm if we are to write the best possible articles. Please help with this. —Theo (Talk) 18:41, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Emico's comment at INC

How does it help us to point out that Emico's already deleted edit "was definitely unfair and POV against those who disagree with the INC". It is one thing to point out why you wish to make a change to an article, but your post feels like an attack: "Let's hear what wrongheaded Emico has to say". I think that it is very important for us to be gentle with each other as we collaborate on this controversial topic. You were generous toward me when I made a mistake. Please extend that generosity to other editors. —Theo (Talk) 00:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• I have no desire to belittle or insult another Misplaced Pages editor, but it is difficult for me to work with Emico and Glen Cessor due to their taunting and reckless use of labels, as well as posting harsher comments regarding my edits: (baselessly accusing me of being a sock puppet and speaking to me in a derogatory fashion, and Cessor referred to me as OTF with no evidence at all, which violates Wikiquette). I would appreciate if you could talk to them about refraining from those behaviours so that we can go forth in making this article an unbiased and legitimate source of information. Regards, Ironbrew.--Ironbrew 01:04, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I sympathise with your anger. I am trying to address inappropriate behaviours as they arise. It is important that we do do not compound the wrongs of others by misbehaving in turn. Keep doing the good things that you are doing. —Theo (Talk) 09:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for overwriting you last edit on the INC article. I've been busy trying to correct the grammar errors of these latests anon edits. At this point, I'll WP:AGF and assume they don't come from Emico, I've decided to keep some of the facts he brought, but keep focus on the section by removing redundancy and quotes that would make the article sound self-contradictory. --LBMixPro 08:07, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

We'll see. One thing we can't do is assume every editor who edits the INC article is Emico. --LBMixPro 02:46, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

User talk:80.58.4.107#Sockpuppet accusation: Your thoughts? I've notified all the sysops who were invloved in the INC article about this. I help edit his contributions, and I get a sockpuppet accusation in return. What's wrong here? --LBMixPro 09:13, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I got the same "gift" from him too. Analyzing his edits, it seems that he believes wholeheartedly that you and I are out to "get the INC" and feels that he is doing right by "defending the INC against its enemies" no matter what tactics he uses. Oh my goodness- this is hilarious! Look who just vandalized my userpage! Special:Contributions/IMNOTEMICO--Ironbrew 18:31, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Editing userpages

Please refrain from editing other users userpages w/o good reason. Although you posted a sock puppet notice, they did they same to you. This makes it seem like neither is true. If you wish to leave a comment for someone, please do so on their talk page. Thank you. ∞Who?¿? 20:34, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

I think that user:IMNOTEMICO is in fact a sockpuppet of Emico, who has been banned from editing some articles here due to his POV and rudeness towards others. He is the one who started the baseless accusations, and since I have proof that he is Emico's sockpuppet, I put the notice on his talk page.--Ironbrew 22:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

That's understandable, and I have been trying to go through the histories and talk with admins involved. It was better at the time to just remove both banners and notitfy both users. If you are having problems with another user, its better to ask for help from an admin, and Don't feed the trolls, it will save you some heartache, even if only a little. thanks for responding, and I will try to find out whats going on with the other user. ∞Who?¿? 22:13, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Let Bygones Be Bygones

I accept. Please accept mine as well. Emico 17:25, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar and Holy Edit Wars

Thanks so much for the comments and for doing what you did at the Bereans forum. But I can't help but be concerned about the direction the articles are about to turn. I recently read the anon's post about burying the hatchet, and the whole argument reminded me of the War on Terrorism.

Although everybody belives the radical muslims who bomb communities think of them as criminals, they fail to realize the terrorists did it to serve God. Although we're dealing with a different religion and a different location, it seems too similar. Someone has no knowledge of the laws and regulations of Jimmy Wales' website, makes edits which are blatanly against it. It seems that he doesn't care about the laws, he feels God has sent him specifically to save the Church from distortion, and would destroy everything which gets in his way. The people of the site believe he's out to ruin the integrity of it, in which he is, the attacks he maded only slowed progress with the site, as well as waste bandwidth and disk space. I'm here for Misplaced Pages. When I went to Misplaced Pages, I didn't do it because INC was there. I was registered at Misplaced Pages about 4 months before finding out about INC's article. INC is just another article, equally important. The only thing different is this article is prone to POV pushers, and clueless newbies. I care enough for this religion to contribute. I'm not editing the article for the INC, but at the same time, I am.

Although the article is about the INC, it's not made for it. I embrace the goal of this Encyclopedia, and the community behind it. But I'm not going to fight a holy war to defend this Wiki. Of course I'm not an expert, only minsters and high members are. But I know enough to make a useful contribution. If I didn't, I wouldn't have edited the article in the first place. Starbucks doesn't know me, he doesn't know my experiences with INC, but he commented as if he did. This is an enyclopedia which is designed for everybody to edit, completely against the view of Starbucks. But I'm not going to take the same road I took with Emico. I'm calling different channels, which are capable of explaining the intent of Misplaced Pages to people. If he wants to write a definite guide to INC, he can make a site of his own. But Misplaced Pages is not a place to put it. Starbucks doesn't own the article. INC doesn't own the article. I don't own the article. You don't own the article.

I can't stand the crap Starbucks throws at me, but after completely reading all the stuff he said today, (since the tension has gone down a bit) I'm going to cool off by leaving the article to only INC members, until the next Wikipedian comes and challenges his views. Hopefully it won't be a sysop. I don't know when I'll be back. But I have other articles, which are equally important as this one. All articles are equally important, and it pisses me off when someone tells me one article is less "serious" than another. They're a lot of wikipedians who make trivial edits to articles they believe have bad grammar. The problem will be when people like Starbucks attack them, because they don't see it as a grammar fix, but a twist to their doctorine.

Hopefully while I'm gone, you can help improve the article, at least to get that WP:V notice off the page. Until Ealva or Glenn comes back to the wiki and balance the integrity of the Wiki and the Iglesia. I can't deal with this problem alone, and I'm hoping people can get through to him. --LBMixPro 23:57, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad that you were able to tell it as it is, before the sysops found out. I'd hate to see what would have happened otherwise. Also that your part in all this is over with. That whole sockpuppet game was getting mass attention from sysops I don't even know. But at this point you could use either screen name. The webmaster doesn't mind, as long as they meet WP:SOCK guidelines. I can go on about my views and experiences with religion in general, but it would be just rambling. I find it more of a subject for general study, since most monotheistic churches worship the same creator. The difference between each is how they view events in the new testament, or even further back when Babylon drove Jesus' ancestors into exile.

Once again, If I haven't repeated it enough. (this is my last time, I swear!) I strongly believe the God INC worships is the same God which was mentioned in this article, or at least this one. That's the only God which the Old Testament focuses on. And if INC's belief is based soley on the both testaments of the Bible, then they must be talking about the God mentioned in those articles. What other God would INC worship? Buddha? Of course not! This was the point I tried to prove to Starbucks. I can't think for him, but the whole revert argument began when he noticed the term "catholic", and debunked the whole article ("redundant how? INC belief is different from mainstream, i.e. catholics god(jesus) died."). But the article itself confirms INC's view it its own section ("...a small fraction of Christians are unitarian monotheists. The vast majority of Christians have been and still are Trinitarian monotheists".). Strangely, this led to what you've seen in most of the neutrality section. It may be fair game in an INC-related debate, but it's not allowed at Misplaced Pages. WP:COOL is so much easier said than done. As my userpage states, I have a zero-tolerance policy on personal attacks of any kind.

On a personal note, I'm a political person who lives in America, a country where I'm given the right to choose my own religion. I cannot tolorate a church which discorages me to communicate with former members only because they thought of them as detractors (as if everything is about them). Yet alone seek out information so I can make an educated choice. I can't speak for everybody, but not every church has a perfect doctorine. If that were the case, we'd have Intellegent design taught in public schools.

Even though I have these feelings, being in INC has made me look into myself, and learn to respect all religions. How can a church, which (as far as Misplaced Pages is concerned) shows barely any signs of being a cult, be regarded by so many as one? It's not like they're putting the safety of their members in danger. As Ealva and Glenn described, the church also follows the spirit and word of the law. I greatly appreciate the members of INC who edit this article in a manner which is productive to the Misplaced Pages Foundation's goal in general. Maybe if the article stays in a positive direction, it may be released on the print version of Misplaced Pages, but we need the article fully cited, cleaned up and free of edit wars in order for that to happen. --LBMixPro 10:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

As far as Misplaced Pages's administration's concerned, Starbucks is another screen name belonging to Emico. It's obvious that his latest editing pattern matches or even exceeds the problems with Emico when he first came. People in Espraranza, who have nothing to do with the conflict, who have read the RFAr say it's him. I wish I can assume good faith in his edits, but his latest actions violated my trust in him. As far as Emico taking WP seriously, I doubt it'll happen. How can I put faith into someone who wrote this after finding out someone left WP? Maybe User:Starbucks is another defensive INC member who is acting on behalf of Emico. But I agree 100% that Emico is invloved in this. After all Starbucks, as well as User:BrewCoffee was created by Emico to parody your name. I don't think reasoning will no longer work. I told him I have nothing to say to him. He knows what he's doing, and there's no need to repeat anything. I'll just revert all his edits, since he is banned for being Emico after all. You can try to forgive and forget his actions of defending INC, but you can't do the same with his blatant disregard to WP's rules and authority, especially if he continues to do so after so many warnings. It's no longer about INC. I feel like making a drastic edit to the article, which I feel should have been done when Emico's ArbCom meeting ended. --LBMixPro 19:29, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

As for that drastic edit, be bold. ;)--Ironbrew 00:57, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I let Fred Bauder know about what has been going on. As I said before, blocks and bans won't work for Emico, since he refuses to use usernames. If anything needs to be done, it needs to be done at an article level, with more sysop supervision. --LBMixPro 20:14, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Welcome to Esperanza!

Welcome, Ironbrew, to Esperanza, the Misplaced Pages member association! As you might know, all the Esperanzians share one important goal: the success of this encyclopedia. Within that, we then attempt to strengthen the community bonds, and be the "approachable" side of the project. All of our ideals are held in the Charter, the governing document of the association.

Now that you are a member, you might be interested in some of our programs. A quite important program is the StressUnit, which seeks to support editors who have encountered any stress from their Misplaced Pages events, and are seeking to leave the project. So far, Esperanza can be credited with the support and retention of several users. A spam list is maintained by Redwolf24 to keep members up to date; you might want to consider adding your name to the list. Also, we have a calendar of special events, member birthdays, and other holidays that you can add to and follow.

In addition to these projects, several more missions of Esperanza are in development, and are currently being created at Esperanza/Possibles.

I encourage you to take an active voice in the running of Esperanza. We have a small government system, headed by our Administrator general, Essjay, and guided by the Advisory Committee comprised of myself, Flcelloguy, Ryan Norton, and Acetic Acid. The next set of elections will be at the end of the year, and I would be glad to see you vote, or even consider running for a position.

Bratsche 13:53, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Iglesia ni Cristo

:I would recommend posting your concerns on the Administrators noticeboard page and see if they can help. They help with things like users trying to get around blocks. They are more experts at this than I am. --Woohookitty 10:21, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Iron, are you an sysop? I 'm thinking of blocking the disruptive anonymous user at the INC talk page. Have you requested a block? --Jondel 01:57, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm not. If there was a way for Misplaced Pages to make me a sysop for the four INC related articles, I would love that. Please also tell this to LBMixPro- he is a more seasoned user than I.--Ironbrew 06:52, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Well if you could build your edit, article counts e.g. you would have a good chance. Behaviour will be scrutinized especially you behave under attacks. There is list of criterias. I'll focus on that later.--Jondel 07:15, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Don't entertain the Trolls

A long time long time ago , in a galax.....
when I used to be an anonymous, my comments at various talk and discussion pages would be removed/reverted even if relevant. If a person is anonymous, they can not expect that much recognition. We shouldn't entertain them . I will be reverting or removing comments by anonymous people as appropriate.--Jondel 07:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

At this point please edit using your best judgement. Do not be intimidated or ascribe to ' What is your source?' . Treat this demands with a grain of salt. Better not entertain Trolls. If the user does not register, he is not willing to be accountable and we should treated as persona non grata. You may of course choose to allow his comments if obeys rules of wiki behaviour. I'm more of an editor than admin but I've been trolled a few times already.--Jondel 10:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

RFA

I've been nominated for RFA. Place your vote. --LBMixPro 21:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't know about the John Seigenthaler Sr. Misplaced Pages biography controversy until you told me about it. That's why the Misplaced Pages policies exist, so issues like that don't happen. I hate when people misuse Misplaced Pages for the fun of it, there's already Uncyclopedia for stuff like that. The best model I see for a Wiki encyclopedia is User:Fred Bauder's Wikinfo, where anons aren't allowed. Although it isn't close to the popularity of Misplaced Pages. But that's the problem with having an encyclopedia where anybody even anons can edit. Of course, User:Jimbo Wales is now feeling the heat for it. --LBMixPro 21:42, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

My RfA went thru.

My adminship request was successful!
Thank you so much for your support of my RfA. The results of the request was 18/0/1. With the help of your support vote, I am now a bona-fide Misplaced Pages sysop/admin. I pledge to use my newfound powers for the good of Misplaced Pages and its editors. If you have anything to tell me, dont hesitate to "speak on it"!. --LBMixPro

Esperanza elections

Voting begins at 12:00UTC on 16 December and all Esperanza members are encouraged to join in.

This message was delivered to all Esperanza members. If you do not wish to receive further messages, please contact Flcelloguy. Thank you.

➨ ❝REDVERS❞ 09:55, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Pro-life celebrities category up for deletion!

Hi, I see that you are listed as a Pro-Life Wikipedian, well the Pro-life celebrities category is up for deletion. Category:Pro-life celebrities The abortion zealots don't want anyone to think that any celebrity is actually pro-life. Dwain 23:48, 15 December 2005 (UTC)