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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Bitola (talk | contribs) at 12:12, 19 December 2005 (Minor edit). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Kumanovo

This is your only warning. If you revert to the copyvio again you will be blocked for 24 hours. freestylefrappe 17:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Bitola, what freestylefrappe is rather tersely saying is that you can't arbitrarily copy text from other sources and paste it into Misplaced Pages. Your contribution to an article needs to be either something you yourself wrote, or something you got explicit permission to insert -- otherwise you're violating the author's copyright. Glenn Willen (Talk) 17:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Vandalizing the Macedonian towns

Glenn, first of all the Freestylefrappe is not TERSELY saying, he has already blocked me without any warning. Have you seen his version of Kumanovo article? He is talking only about murdering, blood, terrorism and nothing about the city normal life. Of course, there were moments in the Kumanovo’s history when a terrorist attacks took place, but Kumanovo is most of the time a quiet ordinary Macedonian town that doesn’t deserve such descriptions. It is the same as if you write an article about London not mentioning St Paul’s catedral, Westminster, Tower bridge.. and writing only about recent terrorist attacks in the London underground. Talking about copyvios, I noticed that FreeStyleFrappe is using text written by Christopher Deliso You can check that on: http://www.serbianna.com/columns/deliso/ http://www.popovashapka.com/terrorist_bombing_in_kumanovo.htm

Are you sure he has permit for doing that? Of course, I will not stay calm until he stops vandalizing the Macedonian towns.

Bitola -- First of all, I understand your concerns about the articles. But please be careful how you use the word 'vandalism'. Freestylefrappe is making good-faith edits to add what he feels is useful information to articles. As a general rule, wholesale removal of information from an article is frowned upon on Misplaced Pages, no matter how much you don't think it belongs. Calling an article 'unacceptable' sounds like you believe you get to define what's OK in a Misplaced Pages article. No individual editor has that decision. Try to see things from his perspective here -- he's been adding what he thinks is useful information, and you've been removing it with basically no comment, and then adding copyright-violating (and thus illegal) material in its place. (As a sidenote, I wanted to write this first, but I'm still looking at the material he added to see if what you say is true. If some specific text of his is a copyvio, could you give me a more specific pointer, e.g. a link to a diff on wikipedia, and the first few words of the paragraph on the other site so I can find it more easily? I'll still look, but it'll be faster if you can show me.) Glenn Willen (Talk) 18:44, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Glenn, it is not true that I’m removing FreeStyleFrappe’s additions all the time. You can simply check this if you visit the History tab on Kumanovo article. His “version” of the page and my info only appended to his info is commented with the following text: OK FreestyleFrappe, I will leave your "violence" texts, yet I'm not sure why it is so important to you to have only bombs, blood and killing in an article for a normal town like Kumanovo). I meant that the things were fine than, but on 8 December 2005 FreestyleFrappe again removed all my additions. I’m trying to understand that everybody has different view on the same thing, but still I cannot understand how somebody wants to describe Kumanovo with the following paragraphs: Econony, Violence, Narcotics!? Not to mention the following “FreestyleFrappe version” sentence: Also notable is the private practice "Otodent", located in Goce Delcev suburb, which offers different medical services like ENT and dentistry. The founder and the director is Dr. Milenko Trendafilovski. (you can simply check this on the current version of Kumanovo article) Does he know how many private dentistry services are present in Kumanovo? Is that npov? Just for your information, I’m now blocked user by his majesty FreestyleFrappe (just because I write similar comment as my first reply to you). Please understand that I’m normal citizen of Macedonia, I have many friends in Kumanovo, they live, study and work there and they are really surprised how his native town is described on Misplaced Pages.

Bitola, there are two separate issues here. First of all, Misplaced Pages is hosted in the United States, and you should understand that using someone else's text without their permission is a violation of US law. That is what freestylefrappe means when he says "copyvio". So regardless of the status of his text about drugs and violence, yours can't be used by Misplaced Pages because you didn't write it. So if he didn't remove it, someone else would have had to do so. If you want to add facts about the town you can do that, but the writing has to be yours. As far as his contributions go, I would suggest you write (once you are unblocked) a comment on the article's talk page about them. Misplaced Pages is not a fast-paced place. It will hurt nobody if the article contains an offensive (to you) description of the town for a few days, or even weeks. Take some time to get other people to agree with you, and come up with some alternative to freestylefrappe's text. If the two of you just revert back and forth, you will argue forever and get nowhere. Again, I understand that the article may be offensive to you, but you will get it fixed more readily by discussion that by immediate action, which will just get reverted (especially if you are deleting lots of text -- Misplaced Pages frowns on deleting other people's writing.) Glenn Willen (Talk) 20:00, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh, also (and I know you might not know the answer to this), do you know if there's any place that I can go to see that you're blocked, when it happened and who did it? (If Misplaced Pages gives you a page telling that you're blocked when you try to edit, that page might have a link you could send to me which would indicate how you were blocked and when.) Do you know why you were blocked -- did you edit the article after you were warned about copyright violation? (It doesn't look like it, so what did you do that caused him to decide to block you?) Glenn Willen (Talk) 20:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

You can check the list of blocked users on the following address:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Ipblocklist

Ok, Let's Get This Settled

Alright, Freestylefrappe's been blocked for 29 hours, and his IP address has been blocked for 24 hours. However, I'm going to have to ask you to get rid of all the copyright violations on Kumanovo and to put a copyright tag on ]. I'm going to put it on WP:IFD just in case you don't. karmafist 04:34, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

From the RFC

You said

I’m relatively a new user and for that reason maybe I did some mistakes handling this dispute. In that manner, I’m sorry if I made some personal attacks on FSF or if I was to fast and responded not courteously in some cases....

And using (at least one) sockpuppet during your edit war? Another "new user mistake"? You should be ashamed, too. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I’m so sorry that I have been constantly accused of using sock puppetry (among other things). First I was accused by User:Freestylefrappe that User:Glenn Willen is one of my sock puppets and in the last time I’m repeatedly receiving accusations from User: CBDunkerson, User:Freestylefrappe and User:Bunchofgrapes about User:Macedon5 being my sockpuppet. As I said once before, that is simply NOT true. Nonetheless, during my block I anonymously did some corrections in the Kumanovo article, but that is not a proof of sock puppetry. How could you make assumptions based only on the fact that some user had been using the same IP address as me? I discussed the Kumanovo dispute to some of my colleagues and friends here and it is very likely that somebody used the same IP address as me in order to join the discussion. Therefore I have no reason to be ashamed and I don’t intend to continue with future explanations about my alleged sock puppetry.--Bitola 12:07, 19 December 2005 (UTC)