Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Android79 (talk | contribs) at 20:02, 15 January 2006 (Reverted edits by 207.200.116.72 (talk) to last version by Martial Law). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived.

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (through December 2005):

Archiving

Please don't archive recent and ongoing discussions. I've un-archived some of today's posts. Bishonen | talk 20:36, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

My experience has been that if anyone wishes to continue a discussion, it is easily un-archived. I left the one discussion which seemed still active. Apologies if I have caused any distress or unhappiness. KillerChihuahua 20:42, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

and how do we even know what archiving is?

You guys just talk on, assuming everyone knows what you mean. You think all persons here are

Wiki pros?

How do you "archive", what do you "archive", where do you "archive", how do you

un-archive?

tell us. Be a teacher.

beckjordBeckjord 08:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

what is archive of a page?

tell us in your words.

And what gives you the right to archive, or un-archive any comments? What right?

Who are you?

beckjordBeckjord 08:37, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection

I'm unprotecting. See Misplaced Pages:Semi-protection policy: "Is not intended for pre-emptive protection of articles that might get vandalized." There's been no spike in vandalism whatsoever. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 06:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

bravo good call.

beckjordBeckjord 07:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

True, but I imagine we're going to see a lot more crap like this real soon now, and when we do, semi-protection will make it a lot harder on the meatpuppets. android79 06:20, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

meatpuppet? ?????????explain.

beckjordBeckjord 07:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Regarding your meatpuppet question, see Misplaced Pages:Meatpuppets DreamGuy 07:58, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

No, tell me here.

You know what a meatpuppet is. Just be a nice guy and tell us. It is really "cold" to send us to a web page, when you already know the answer. Do not be rude. This is my HUGE complaint about Wiki people... they lack common humanity --- would you act this way on the street? Face to face?

How about "Wikipuppets?" Eh?

snort!

beckjordBeckjord 08:22, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Sure, we'll semiprotect it if it becomes frequent. So far, I'm less than impressed with Beckjord's ability to marshal his forces, though. —Bunchofgrapes

now,now,

Just wait. My pals are not vandals however.

What did you expect in 4 hrs.?

beckjordBeckjord 07:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

(talk) 06:21, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh, certainly, let's not protect until it happens, if it does. android79 06:23, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

R U aware

I read everything you post?

beckjordBeckjord 07:23, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

• Read WP:NPOV, WP:V, and WP:NOR thoroughly and prove to the rest of us that you have done so through your edits. The "call to arms" on your website pretty much guarantees that any edits you make to this article will be reverted on sight. And, for the last time, stop enclosing your comments in equals signs. It's very annoying. android79 07:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

how do I post a new title without = signs?

nobody says how to do it.

you criticise, but never instruct.

rading the rules pages will take 6 monthsm and i feel nobody here follows them anyway.

the skeptics here will delete anything I say NO MATTER WHAT I DO OR FOLLOW.

They have NO interest in the truth.

NPOV ? Impossible =I am profesional Bigfoot investigator. I report what I find.

If some do not like it, too bad. What is, is. Often, I have witnesses.

Also, get this: there are NO neutral scientific journals on this topic. If one does,

write on it, they select an ignorant PhD. Newsletters and websites is all you will get.

Edits andreverts will go on forever, due to the controversial natuire of the topic.

Some people HERE are dedicted to stomping out what they call "nonsense". It will never stop.

Rules violated all over, and nobody enforces them.

Wiki is a zoo.

smile  ;-)

beckjordBeckjord 07:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

The point is to stop posting a new header for each thought you wish to add to the talk page. You don't need to be instructed on how to stop doing something.

I am asking you to read three policy pages. That will not take six months. It will hardly take six minutes. If you are unwilling to follow the rules, you are going to get blocked for longer and longer periods until the length of your blocks makes them practically infinite.

Misplaced Pages does not allow original research. Period. We don't care if you are a "professional Bigfoot investigator". You can't add your own research or findings to this article unless they are published in a respected journal or other credible source (magazine, national newspaper, etc.) We also don't care if there are no neutral journals on the subject.

• • I do not care what you do not like.

Wiki polices are f*cked. You want to be another fuddy-duddy pedia?

You SHOULD care. You are AVOIDING HOT, NEw RESEARCH in favor old, dead authors who never did a d*mn thing. People like Pyle, who might as well be dead.

YOU SHOULD BE fighting for new ways to recognize NEW RESEARCH even if it means quoting newsletters.

WEBSITES.

jOURNALS OF ZOOLOGY AND anthropology DO NOT ACCEPT BIGFOOT ARTICLES, UNLESS 100 % SKEPICAL. They will not accept even neutral articles./ DO YOU GET THIS? BUt you sure will quote any newspaper if it is negative, won't ya? Predisposition.

However, there is some discussion by the Journal of Scientific Exploration (JSE) when the editor likes a contributor. I will submit some items, as I WORK DOWN THE PAGE, getting OKs from established ADMINS for edits. Newbies have NO chance.

Snort!

newbie on Wicki

BeckjordBeckjord 08:40, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

If there aren't, Misplaced Pages has nothing to gather source material from, and no material will be added to the article. This is an encyclopedia, not a research forum. If "newsletters and websites is all" we get, that's too bad. They aren't reliable sources and cannot be used. android79 07:42, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

We never instruct? You never listen to instructions, is more like it. I've told you twice that to make a normal, as opposed to an extra large, heading, you enclose it in TWO equals signs. Not ONE. Two equals signs on each side. Like this: ==. Not one equals sign like this: = . I see Dreamguy tells you this above, too. If you still have trouble with it, or with any other aspect of formatting, please open edit mode and look to see the way other people have formatted their posts. I don't want to bite the clueless newb here, but what is so hard? Bishonen | talk 14:10, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Reference/source

Where is the ref for the reported size of eyes and head, please? Thanks - KillerChihuahua 11:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Bigfoot Shot at

If bigfoot is a myth, what are people shooting at when it appears, or is spotted ? Several websites, data sites have reported people shooting at this thing, what ever it is. If you see one, and you're armed, will you shoot at it ? This explains that hoaxing this thing(Until I know what it is) is not a good idea. Martial Law 19:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Robbing banks isn't a good idea either -- for much the same reasons. But I believe bank robbers exist, and I belive bigfoot hoaxers exist. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Got two links that state that people should shoot them, Even have the advocate who wants people to shoot them. These are:

• Link one
• Link Two

Link malfunctioning, copy it, go offsite. Martial Law 20:11, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I shouldn't shoot at Bigfoot for the simple reason that I wouldn't want to be found guilty of murdering a human in a gorilla suit. --Cyde Weys _vote 20:14, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Let me get this straight:

1. There is considerable danger of being shot at when dressed up in an ape suit pretending to be Bigfoot.
2. Potential Bigfoot hoaxers are aware of this and no one would dare dressing up in an ape suit for fear of serious injury or death.
3. Therefore, Bigfoot is real!

I dressed up as bigfoot once to scare people and I'm not brave just very stupid. User:perleatsworld January 4 2006

Is this argument for real? android79 21:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Just stating a dangerous outcome of perpetrating a hoax of this nature, since a Mr. Krantz advocates people should shoot these things. This is in both links. Martial Law 21:08, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, people do shoot at these things, mainly to satisfy skeptics, to keep it out of their property, to keep it from harming loved ones, themselves, other reasons. SEVERAL Bigfoot links have reported people shooting at these creatures. Martial Law 21:11, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I think it gets even worse:

4. If Bigfoot were a mundane animal, it would have been shot at and killed by now too.

5. Therefore, bigfoot is real, and is a pan-dimensional being who can phase in and out of our plane of existence.

—Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:12, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Oooooooorrrrrr, it's not real at all WOAH!

Seriously, Marshall Law, Misplaced Pages is not a how-to or advice guide. It's not WIkipedias job to warn people not to dress up as bigfoot and run around in the woods. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:14, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Did'nt say that either. Just provided two links that state that people will shoot these things and found by accident, the person who advocates that people should shoot them, no more, no less. Martial Law 21:20, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Although if someone was actually wounded or killed as a result of doing so that would make it notable and worthy of inclusion. That it hasn't happened means that all of those Bigfoots people have shot at were real transdimensional beings and not nearly hoaxsters. --Cyde Weys _vote 21:21, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Who is going to call the police and admit to perpetrating a hoax of this nature, like," I've been shot, hurt really bad.", then the 911 operator asks", what happened ?", then the hoaxer says,"Me and some buds got the idea to hoax a Bigfoot when some rednecks shot me. I'M DYING here." ? Martial Law 21:34, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Can these links be used ? Martial Law 21:38, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

If you want to use them to point out the (obvious) fact that people have advocated shooting or otherwise capturing a Bigfoot, sure, they can be used. If you want to stretch that into an argument for or against Bigfoot's existence, or into a plea that people not impersonate Bigfoot, no, you can't do that. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:50, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Can you place these, and why, while I find more concerning this matter. Martial Law 22:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Two more links say people should kill it. These are:

• Link 3
• Link 4

These links also have another person advocating people to kill these things. Martial Law 22:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Just saying that if a Bigfoot Kill expedition is set up, some hoaxer will definately get shot, or that some startled person will shoot at it. Martial Law 22:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Um, I don't think there are bigfoot hoaxers out in the woods 24/7; so I don't understand why you think a "bigfoot kill expedition" would be certain to find a hoaxer. Or maybe I am misunderstanding you. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

M.L., your arguments are atrocious, and worse than that you miss the fundamental point: Misplaced Pages is not the place for editors to try to argue in favor or against something, as that's a major violation of NPOV. Your little stream of consciousness flight of logical fallacies cannot go in the article, and it's annoying as all heck for you to still be trying to support it when the relevant policies (NPOV, WP:No original research, WP:Verifiability, Misplaced Pages is not a soapboax, etc. have repeatedly been pointed out to you. No offense, but it seems like we are dealing with a 12 year old here, since repeated explanations go completely over your head and you are so caught up in how your argument twists and turns that you don;t get that it's completely irrelevant either way. This is an encyclopdia, not a Bigfoot blog. Stop posting so many comments all over. Start reading policies. Calm down and start paying attention to your surroundings. DreamGuy 23:56, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

One may set up a expedition of this sort to go find one, say, in the NW. US for instance, then some member spots one, and shoots at it, then later on, it turns out that the expedition finds out that they have killed some idiot in a monkey suit. User:Dreamguy, did you see the links provided here ? They state that a Mr Krantz has advocated that if people see this thing, they are to shoot at it. These 4 links are in compliance with WP:V,WP:NOR, and these links go to prove that people do actually shoot at these things, mainly to bring a body to satisfy skeptics. I am not trying to prove, nor disprove the creature's existance, just stating what people do when they see this thing. Martial Law 04:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

"just stating what people do when they see this thing." No... those links just show that some people who most people never heard of recommends that people shoot Bigfoot if it does exist and if they happen to see it. Those links in no way support a statement that people actually do see it or would shoot at it if they did, or that that that means people wouldn't hoax things. And most hoaxes aren't people in suits anyway, it's just someone lying when they claim to have seen it. If nobody else can confirm the story, why dress up in a suit and run around on the property of some alleged trigger-happy Bigfoot believer who has read Krantz? that's a lot of work when it;s easier to just tell a silly story.

If you want a sentence pointing out that some people have suggested shooting one if they see one, fine, that's not under dispute . But that's not what your earlier edits to the article werel limited to -- they specifically tried to use that to argue that Bigfoot really exists, as is also evident from your comment above that "If bigfoot is a myth, what are people shooting at when it appears" Just give the whole thing a rest. DreamGuy 05:40, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Where do I place this without causing a disruption ? Just being careful. Martial Law 07:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not one to disrupt things, thus I really need user:Dreamguy's help. Martial Law 07:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Marshall Law, what did you get for Christmas? What did Fat Santa bring? Or does he not exist?

In all seriously now, do you believe in Santa? because you are very gullible in my opinion. Paddy :-) 05:51, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

No. Not gullible at all. Right now, I'm facing a war that I can't stop without Misplaced Pages's help. see the "WAFE" referral below. I've stopped two of these war attempts before, I don't know if I can stop this one without help. Martial Law 10:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Restating Known FACTS

• It is a extremely large creature.
• It really STINKS.
• Is extremely strong.
• Fur color varies, ranging from solid black to snowy white.
• Usually will not confront people.
• Makes horrifying noises.
• Is some kind of omnivore. Will raid property, such as farms, ranches, even compost piles and other trash for food, if there is no food in the wild. As to, how should I place this w/o violating Wiki policies, it's feces, like other feces is eaten by various bugs and bacteria.
• Has extremely BIG feet, thus is why it is called a Bigfoot.
• Is usually a muscular creature that is usually 7' to 12' tall(Taller than most NBA players)

These are the known and accepted facts concerning this thing. Martial Law 07:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Those are not known or accepted facts. Those are beliefs and claims of some pro-Bigfoot supporters, and even there not all of them agree on all those points. Huge difference. Please go read Misplaced Pages policies on NPOV, verifiability, etc., as you obviously have not bothered to do so when those links were given to you earlier. DreamGuy 02:35, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

DreamGuy is right. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:51, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Just read them, again. Thanks. I did find a site that may agree with User:DreamGuy. it claims that out of 10 alleged encounters, one reports the creature as being smelly. You are Right User:DreamGuy. I've seen this around: WP:WF. What is it ? Martial Law 04:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

WAFE

User:Beckjord is forming some kind of group that may oppose Misplaced Pages. It is called WAFE a acronym that stands for Wikipedians After Fair Editing

He is asking people to join this organization.

Please notify your Admins. of this. Martial Law 09:12, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Any Wiki response to this matter? I do NOT want to see a Civil War on this fine website.

I am NOT joining this organization. Martial Law 09:11, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Just ignore him. It's not going to get anywhere, as it's not like he has anyone on his side, and if he managed to do anything it'd be easy enough to undo. Giving him attention is what he wants. See Misplaced Pages:Do not feed the trolls DreamGuy 02:55, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Given that we got a grand total of two Bigfoot-is-an-alien editors to come here during Beckjord's "call to arms" on his website, I don't think we have anything to worry about. android79 02:58, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I do NOT coddle terrorists, I'm here to contribute. I'm a evidence kind of guy. As to Bigfoot, have yet to see one personally. I am also a field investigator, but I do not post anything that will be in violation of Wiki protocol at all, thus why I Google Search everything FIRST, then, place what I find on the discussion page for other Wikis to examine, so that I don't even remotely mess up a article at all. Only upon Wiki approval will what I find will go into this article, given the nature of this article. User:DreamGuy(Forgive the formalities), is this a good idea, so as to prevent article disruption with nonsense, of which I do not coddle either ? Again, I'm here to contribute. User:DreamGuy, I am considering creating a article about mythical weapons and armor, and list examples, such as Minerva's/Athena's shield, which will kill all living things, because it has Medusa's severed head on it. Will you assist me on this, given your expertise on mythical related matters ? Martial Law 04:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Should another war break out, what should I do ? Maintain vigilance and alert other Wikis ? What is the protocol ? Have'nt been able to contribute at all due to these wars. Who handles these matters ? Martial Law 04:44, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

• As I've already said, one editor not getting his way does not constitute a "war". Beckjord refuses to heed WP:NPOV, WP:V, and WP:NOR and his edits will be reverted until he does. Alert "other wikis"? What are you talking about? There are several admins watching this page already. android79 04:46, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

He has ten or more "meatpuppets"(I need a means of understanding Wiki jargon. Any resources I can use ?) to strike. You revert, the puppet "conter-reverts", until you are exhausted, he wins the war. Heard you guys caught a meatpuppet. Congrats. I'm like the watchman who had found something that is disturbing. Since you guys have this covered, I'll be "standing down", but will still be watching things. If I find something amiss in this article, who do I turn to to help me correct it ? Martial Law 06:12, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

A number of admins and myself and other editors now have this article on our watch lists. If Beckjord tries anything, with meatpuppets or otherwise, that violates policies here, there's a long line of people ready to respond. DreamGuy 06:20, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

How do you know he has 10 or more meatpuppets? So far, two have surfaced, and were quickly caught. There are ways of dealing with this problem that will not "exhaust" us. android79 06:29, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I monitor his website, and am always expecting trouble from this individual, since he had already initiated battle twice that I've seen already. Told him once already that The Boss might see this mess and throw him out. That is how I stopped the last one, until this "WAFE" mess appeared. Did I act correctly ? Martial Law 06:58, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

One other thing, he has been trying to get my E-mail and another Wikipedian had reported that he hit him with 6 viruses.

Martial Law

One day he is my friend, next day he is not.

Bi-polar ?

Not sure

beckjordBeckjord 08:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Beckjord, I have to follow Wiki protocol. No more, no less. I have not lied to you, will not lie to you now. I said MY E-MAIL IS OUT, NOT' that I had no E-mail. I had it examined. It looks like it had been, hit, but NOT by you at all. Some spammer, maybe something from a "etightstrings.com" type of site has sent some bug that hit my E-mail. I an currently on the Yahoo system, and it is known to foul up royally. I am indeed your friend. Its these "call to arms" that are making a mess of things for everybody. You, on the other hand, have progressed very well. Call off this war, and initiate no more of these wars, I'll give you a site that does permit original reserch, BUT you have to be extremely civil at all times while you're on it, and while you're on here. As a symbol of "Good Faith", I'll give you a really strange Bigfoot link, and go to UFO Casebook to see a entry concerning a entity that appeared out of nowhere, was glowing like a firefly on steroids. It is in the main(center) listings on the site, and tell you, after you go to my User Talk page about two incidents that has taken place near Shreveport,LA. Martial Law 09:30, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

this is total cr*p

I do not send viruses. Tell me how? You are one person who loves to lay blame where there is no guilt, BAsed on ASSUMPTIONS. See "post hoc, ergo prosper hoc" in logic.

Now, what the H*ll should I use to introduce a comment? If not = ( )= then what?

WHY NOT JUST TELL ME?

Eh? Or is that too kind?

Beside, ML said he HAD NO EMAIL. Was this a lie? Maybe so.

I email Zoe, and she gets no viruses. Ask her. Just do not open attachments.

God, the lies and lies I find here.

beckjordBeckjord 08:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

beckjordBeckjord 08:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not releasing this Wiki's name. If I may, I'll reveal the attacked Wiki on either User:DreamGuy's Talk page or on a friend of his. Martial Law 07:02, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you actually did to "stop" anything. If you convinced Beckjord to take down the "call to arms" from his website, bravo.

One thing that may clear these communications up: a Wiki is a website, not an editor. If you want to talk about a Misplaced Pages user, say Wikipedian, editor, or user.

If Beckjord is sending viruses through email, there's really nothing that can be done about it; I'm sure they're rather ineffective. There's no way he can get editors' email addresses unless he uses the "Email this user" feature and the user replies, or if the user has their email listed somewhere on the Wiki. android79 07:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

May I do this ? Martial Law 07:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't condone terrorisim. Neither should Misplaced Pages. Martial Law 07:12, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

"Terrorism" seems to be blowing things out of proportion. Ditto for "war" you mentioned above. You're running around like chicken little here. The sky isn't falling, we just have a problem editor who is grumpy. Most of us have dealt with the kind of behavior many times before and we know what we are doing. I was going for several rounds with Sollog and others like him sending out death threats and trying to hack my websites before Misplaced Pages was even around, and the other editors here you've been talking to aren't newbies either. Chill. It's all under control. DreamGuy 07:46, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Will do. Am now "standing down". User:Dreamguy, you have any suggestions for a article I'm planning which will list mythological and fictional weapons and armor, such as Athena's shield, which has a Gorgon's head in it, the sword Excalibur, Conan's sword, ice cannons featured in some videogames, that sort of thing ? Your expertise is useful here. Martial Law 07:59, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

User:DreamGuy, I have created two recent articles called UFOs in Fiction, which is about fictional UFOs, such as those featured in Blockbuster movies and TV shows. Been told that this was one of my better articles by a Admin., and Fictional resistance movements and groups, which are about fictional resistance groups. Most are related to science fiction and "Alternate Histories", but the Alternate History genere is short on literature. Appreciate your critique. Martial Law 08:30, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Another User, a Admin requested the article, while commenting on something in the UFO article. Martial Law 08:45, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Seen your latest catch. Good job. What is that, 3 suspected meatpuppets now ? Martial Law 20:56, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Reference check

I noticed this link in the external links section and it discusses that hair samples found in a suspected bigfoot footprint were sent to the University Of Alberta for DNA testiing...and that results were expected back later in the week. Well, I found the results and they are apparently hairs from a Bison. I was wondering why this second citation is not in the article but the first one is. If we are to have an article that is going to be worthy of being encyclopedic, then we must do our research more throughly.--MONGO 02:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

There are lots and lots of cases like that where DNA tests showed normal animal hair, often bears, goats, etc. Apparently the Bigfoot true believers don't want people to know that. Furthermore, I find the claims of the one study mentioned here that no match could be made highly suspect. It was made before DNA testing was routine, so it's doubtdul they did any test that could stand up to scrutiny by today's standards. The reference in the article covers up it's age, and people today assume hair is tested for DNA when it is tested so would believe that those tests had been done in this case -- as in fact one of our pro-Bigfoot people here claimed on this talk page when I pointed out that all DNA tests that have been done show real, known animals. These sorts of things need to be in there, or else there is a strong bias by ommission. DreamGuy 02:32, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm one of those that will not rule out the existence of such a creature. There is simply no physical proof that is accepted by the scientific community however. Basically, if they were to exist, there would have to be something close to at least 100 of them scattered across the U.S. Pacific Northwest and western Canada in order to maintain themselves through normal reproductive patterns known in all Great Apes and Humans, of which, apparently, this creature is most likely associated with biologically. Simply put...there has yet to be anything tangible in the form of physical evidence whereby we could honestly say, well, yes, here is proof of a previously unknown primate in North America. The section on skeletal remains is weak for the disbelievers as it is extremely rare for even an outdoorsman such as myself to ever stumble upon the remains of any animal. One of the reasons the great apes are so endangered in Africa is due to their relatively low reproductive capabilities and species thinning due to habitat loss and poaching. Taking all other factors out of the equation aside from species maintainability and the lack of physical evidence...the rest of the information probably should be covered for the sake of being exhaustive, but they do little to help the supportors or the disbelievers because they tend to cancel each other out.--MONGO 03:27, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Interesting. Martial Law 04:39, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

bison hair

No bigfoot researcher made any big deal of this, since the hairs were not yet tested. If you have questions on suhc things, ask Beckjord, who is here. The best hair analysis was done by three scientists, and no further need have been done. http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/bloodandhair.html Current hair analysis, a waste of tiome now, imho, is done by Dr Henner Fahrenbach.

In light of the statements of Dr Michio Kaku, CCNY Physics, and CUNY, saying UFOs may come here via wormholes, an idea I sent him a year ago, (said it on tv - ABC.) it would seem that hairy humanoids __could be__ temporary visitors and dna only proves they were humanoid "at that time". DNA was obtained by LA state researchers several years back, they claim. ( James Lansdale.)

Just because a newspaper makes a big deal of possible hairs of BF that later are buffalo, does not mean we need to make a big deal. Being "verified" as source, does not mean truth. Some sources lie.

beckjordBeckjord 07:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord, do not squeeze your own comments in between earlier comments to try to throw off the conversation. I moved yours to the end... but, frankly, your comments make you like liks a paranoic conspiracy theorist. We aren;t supposed to trust reliable sources because they all lie, but we're supposed to take the word of fringe publications and self-declared experts nobody ever heard of just because they support your side? Claiming current hair analkysis now is a waste of time completely m isses the fact that now they can do DNA tests and figure out for sure where the hair samples came from, instead of old, old "studies" which were just some guy eyeballing a clump of hair and trying to guess what it came from. The old studies are completely unscientific by current standards. New studies are indisputable. And all of the new DNA studies have ALWAYS come back with, goat, bison, bear, cat, whatever. Your arguments are nonsense and we need to update this article to reflect modern DNA studies instead of the wishful thinking of the pro-Bigfoot crowd. DreamGuy 23:14, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Time to semi-protect?

Looks like it to me. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:13, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I have to agree. I just got done with removing vandalism from this article, but it looks like there's more. --Winter 19:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Semi-protected. I'm a little worried something in the article got scrambled around during all that; don't have time to look in detail right now, so someone might want to pick carefully through the history. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what happened there, but I've reverted it back a little ways... some sections had seemed to have gone missing. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:08, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Unprotected. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Notice to new visitors who want to make changes

Hi - there is a system here that allows old-time members to instantly WIPE OUT any changes you add in. Took me two weeks to figure this out. Thus, to work in the system, add your comments to the DISCUSSION page, which thousands of readers now are looking at, thanks to GOOGLE. Your points will be read and some may last a while.Some may be verified (found in a book,ANYBOOK, and then added to the main page, with a footnote reference. It is best if you take teh tiome and dig out a page saying what you want, in a known book, such as The Bigfoot Files, and not in old fart books like Pyle. These Wicki people are very,very uptight and jealous and resent newcomers. So try my idea. Quote things. Newspapers, tv shows, websites, journals, books, and newsletters. SOME info may make it. That is the game, so we must play it.

Ask for Zoe by name, or Bishonen, by name, or Bunchofgrapes, by name, or DanielCD by name, to assist. They will see it, and may help.

Ve must be cool, and no vandalism (wiping out sections) pleeze.

beckjordBeckjord 07:38, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Bishonen

You may have have instructed me on some level in some page, but what if I miss it in all this ,mess?

Just email me. THEN I see it.

Zoe does.

And best you send it to my talk page.

Thanks.

beckordBeckjord 08:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

all you people really,really think newbies are going to spend hrs reading polices they 100% hate?

Many do NOT LIKE these rules and laws. They want CHANGE. The organizers were WRONG. Many newbies do not see these policies as anything to respect. We might read them, someday, but do not respect them.

You use these policies to suppress new info.

Now, what about TV PROGRAMS AS A SOURCE?

Dr Michio Kaku is quoted on ABC that he feels UFOs use wormholes,

YOU GONNA IGNORE THAT?

I will send in the quote here.

Is ABC "reputable" enough for you? Or does it have to be a an author who has 50 libel items in her book? Is she "reputable" ?

RETHINK WIKI.

beckjordBeckjord 08:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

You wrote: "all you people really,really think newbies are going to spend hrs reading polices they

100% hate?" -- Well, if they hate our policies, they are free to leave. Ignoring and doing whatever the heck they want just because they want to will not be tolerated.

Also, you have proven yourself incapable of determining what "libel" really is. You can;t simply remove a book from the biography because you disagree with it and then throw out ridiculous legal accusations against the author to try to support yourself. If you think the author made libelous comments, take it up with the publisher, not with us... DreamGuy 23:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

DreamGuy

name any author who says Bigfoot has small eyes.

Tell us, I can hardly wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

beckjordBeckjord 09:17, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Myself. I made a book about a completely different subject and in the back i wrote BIGFOOT HAS SMALL EYES!!!!! Signed, Perleatsworld

NOTICE TO DreamGuy and others of like mind

I, and others, of like mind, are not trying to "take over" the Bigfoot page.

We do not need to try to flood them page with PRO info, because if honestly reported,

much of the research shows something is there, and we do not have to stretch it, fake it or fudge it. But much of what is there now , ignores other objective info, and used bad, weak authors who never did field work. These are selected for their critical views. Pyle, for instance, never left his house to write his book. How ya gonna call that "Reputable" ? It isn't.

We, members of Wikians After Fair Editing, (which seems to threaten many insecure people here) just want all sides shown and we are confident that if all the info is laid out, it will present a positive showing, because the truth is never 50-50. It is usually 98-2

Support WAFE ! You get 79 Virgins in Heaven! - And you get to argue with Rene Dahinden -- or is that Hell?

-)

beckjordBeckjord 09:32, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

skeptics have complained...

They always will. They have no basis for any complaints, since they do no field work, and were NOT THERE. In one case, "Looking for Mr Goodape" Bob Sheaffer was told he might not see nor hear anything on the trip, since BF stays away from skeptics. When he left, a kid camped with family and did see a Bigfoot. Later, I did get pix, of beings not seen.

Dr Molly Hanson, organizational psychologist, skeptic, did go on two day hike and found BF trax on her own, and became a believer. Arizona trip, 1979.

"A skeptic is a person who, when he sees the handwriting on the wall, says it is a forgery"

        -famous person whom I forgot.

beckjord205.208.227.49 22:53, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

DreamGuy, screamGuy

I see he just cannot stay away... his skeptical hackles are up. He nitpicks and instead of helping with minor edits, he deletes. WHAT A GUY!!!!!

He should improve his own bad page, Mythology, which needs BIG TIME HELP.

hAPPY nEW yEAR, DG.

beckjord205.208.227.49 22:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Why are you editing as an Anon? It doesn't appear that you are (currently) blocked. Please refrain from attacking classes of people ("skeptics") and specific users (DreamGuy) and focus on the article's contents. Your personal anecdotes are useless to the encyclopedia. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:01, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

DreamGuy: I call him a vandal. He makes irrational edits, and deletes all sorts of valuable items. And he is influenced by skeptics, who have no clue on this research.

Also please stop ordering me around. beckjordBeckjord 06:43, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

anon?' Prove this. Sounds likemore Wiki paranoia.

BTW, sometimes people forget to log in. Ever think of that? :beckjordBeckjord 06:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I was just wondering about why you were editing as an anon, and asked politely... "I forgot to log in" is a perfectly good reason. Now who's paranoid?

I will continue to "order you around" exactly as long as you continue to ignore Misplaced Pages policies. FOr example, calling DreamGuy a vandal is a personal attack, and saying someone influenced by skeptics shouldn't be editing the article is a violation of NPOV, which says multiple points of views should be neutrally presented. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

DG comments in edit box

(revert Beckjord on an anon IP (check edit history) blind reverting all changes I made because he irrationally hates skeptics, NPOV the WP:NOR policy and me (again, see his contribution history)

reply: this is garbage. I do not knowingly edit using anon. DG is the one violating NPOV. He has an agenda. DG reverts the entire article, just to dump a few edits he does not like. My researcxh is quoted in many sources. If you IGNORE current research, you make the article stale and passe'. Truth is important. What a non-researcher skeptic says in his office has no merit, even if in a bad book.

beckjordBeckjord 06:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

irrationally hate skeptics

No. I know Bob Sheaffer personally and have partied with him in local Mensa. (Goodape art.) One other skeptic went on a trip, found bigfoot tracks on her own and became my girlfriend.

I do not hate other skeptics as much as I have no respect for them.

beckjordBeckjord 06:52, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

sherpas

quote: In 2003, Japanese mountaineer, Makoto Nebuka, published the results of his 12-year linguistic study and postulated that the word "yeti" is actually a regional dialect term for "bear". The ethnic Tibetans fear and worship the bear (as do many primitive peoples) as a supernatural being. This does not match with what sherpas say,however.

The reference is in The Snow Leopard by Peter Matthiessen. The whole comment by Nebuka is insulting and implies that the local people are taken in by a linguistic trick.. or that we foreigners just do not understand the local language. This negative item is just a skeptic's POV item, and it smells. I'm not sure it is even true that local people worship bears since they do kill them. Further, the whole thing is absurd, since westerners have found Yeti tracks at altitudes where BEARS DO NOT GO, and with bipedal aspect, not quadupedal. Bears do not walk for miles on two feet. Basic common knowledge.

I think the Nebuka item needs to be erased. It is a red herring.

My opponent keeps putting in false or illogical items, as if this will Un-prove or debunk the Yeti and the rest. Yeti is neither proven nor disproven. He is into mythology and pedantry.

I hope you do not go that route.

Fighting illogical pedants is tiring. Evil energy abounds.

beckjordBeckjord 08:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

• Blah blah blah. What does your source say about sherpa, etc.? android79 17:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

bunchofgrapes

Using "editors" who have no name, and no identity is extremely dishonest.

Re websites, that is all you have for recent publications. Normal zoological journals do not publish articles on Bigfoot. If you want cutting edge here, you must, as an online pedia, accept online info.

BTW, who are you?

I'm real, you are not.

beckjordBeckjord 21:59, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I personally am not opposed to websites being used as a source - though I like to see some discrimination regarding the likely reliability of the web site. That's irrelevant to the revert of mine you are talking about, though. You cited information from your own website, www.beckjord.com. Now, even the most simpleminded among us can immediately see that this poses a problem: you are perfectly free to put whatever truth, half-truth, fiction, or fantasy you care to on your own website, at any time. Therefore, for you to try to use information from that site as a source in producing a neutral, balanced encyclopedia article is quite out of the question.

Who am I? See my user page; I choose to reveal more biographical info about myself than many here, and I promise it's all true. If that isn't enough for you — if you have some need to know the true identity of those you interact with — then Misplaced Pages may not be an environment you will ever be happy in. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:09, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

PS Who said we wanted "cutting edge" here? "Cuttting edge" is usually a code-phrase for Original Research, in my experience. We don't want that at all. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:11, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord, if you continue with this "I'm real, you're not" taunting bullshit, you're going to get blocked. Misplaced Pages editors who want to remain anonymous are allowed to do so. Focus on arguments, and for the last goddamn time, read WP:NOR. android79 03:47, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I have to second that, but add double bullshit.--MONGO 03:55, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Can...

Can I get some recomendations for this site before placement ? It is Mysteries Megasite Homepage Click on Bigfoot, related cryptids. This site has links to literally dozens of other sites of this nature ? Was going to place it in the "External Sources" section. Trying to avoid violations of the WP:NOR, related protocol, thus am seeking recomendations. Thought I may discuss this matter first. Martial Law 00:04, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

• Read Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources and Misplaced Pages:External links. A source, especially a Web-based one, needs to be reputable for use as a source, and preferably, sites listed in External links should contain material that is referenced by the main article, Based solely on the appearance of the site you link, I would say that it is not appropriate to place in the External links section. Flashing lightning bolts and other such garbage don't exactly scream "serious" or "scholarly". android79 00:14, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Admit the site is a tad too bit flashy. I clicked in the title "Bigfoot", and nearly 20-30+ Bigfoot links appeared. Can I add your two recomendations to my directory ? Martial Law 00:47, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

• Read and absorb and add to your list of stuff as desired. :-) android79 01:46, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

What about this site: Malevolent Alien Abduction Research Homepage ? This claims that some of the bigfoot creatures are aliens, but are seen with UFOs, other aliens. Was planning to place this in the "Alternative" section, because people has reported spotting them in, near UFOs, either going into them, or exiting them. You click on Sasquatch or Bigfoot on this site. Martial Law 23:00, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

You click on "Alien Species" to get to Bigfoot/Sasquatch. Martial Law 23:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Edits by User:Dr Joe

User:Dr Joe recently showed up out of nowhere with no previous history to start putting beckjord's edits back in and to add similar NPOV-breaking comments. I'd say meatpuppet, based upon his trying to get people here, but it actually looks more like sock to me, especially with the strange habit of ending lines in middle of sentences (is he copying and pasting from some email or other application that forces lines to split after a certain width??) and the peculiar way things were phrased both in the edits and the edit comments. DreamGuy 07:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Who is "Dr. Joe" ? Can't find anything on this User. Martial Law 09:04, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Probable sockpuppet of...guess who....--MONGO 09:09, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Patterson-Gimlin film FAKED?

It was recently reported that one of the principles involved in making this film has confirmed that it was a complete fake. Why is this info not reported or even discussed here?

Seems to me this article is an embarrassment to wikipedia - it doesn't even come close to approaching the guidelines regarding NPOV.

If you've got specific issues with the POV of this article, by all means, bring them up here. There are many problems with this article, that's for certain.

Equally important to NPOV is verifiability. If you've got a reliable source that indicates the Patterson film was faked, by all means, add this information to the article. android79 20:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Source: Skeptical Inquirer, July-August, 2004 by Kal K. Korff, Michaela Kocis. Text available here. Also see The Patterson 'Bigfoot' film uncovered on KATU News. KillerChihuahua 21:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Unless someone beats me to it, I'll add this information to the article (actually, an in-depth discussion belongs in the article on the film itself, with a summary here). android79 22:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

NOTHING in that rag is valid, nor true nor verifiable. It is 100 BS and bias. NOBODY in it has a copy of the film as film, and they go by ANY lie the see in the papers.

ALL BIGFOOT FANS NEW TO WIKI SHOULD GO THERE AND EDIT,EDIT,EDIT. It is YOUR Wiki also. Patterson-Gimlin Film. ( I did not log in yet, so do not get upset.)

DrJoe205.208.227.49 10:15, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

That's a rather extreme amount of bias there. They are a valid source, and we can (and on this topic, pretty much have to in order to keep NPOV policy in mind) list what they claim in the article.

By the way, it would be nice if yo limited yourself to editing under one username instead of using a sockpuppet account and signed out as an IP address... It makes it look like you are trying to be three different people, Beckjord, and thus trying to trick people into thinking more people support your side than really do. DreamGuy 01:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that's rich. Your personal website is a perfectly valid resource, but a well-respected magazine is not? android79 01:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I am so surprised by this turn of events. Somehow I was sure Mr. Beckjord would be a big fan of the Skeptical Enquirer. Next, he'll crush me by revealing a disdain of the Amazing Randi or Michael Shermer. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

This Article

This article sucks and its just ABSOLUTELY CRAP!!

sorry had to do it. Paddy :-) 00:48, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• If you think this article's got problems, check out the POV mess that is Patterson-Gimlin film. android79 01:25, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Several months back I tried to improve things but gave up in disgust after a group of Bigfoot true believers came and not only undid everything I tried to fix but made everything else worse. At least we can thank Beckjord's campaign of POV-pushing and self-promotional original research for bringing these articles to our attention once again. DreamGuy 01:40, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

All new Wiki members have a right to edit

Bless the founder.  :-)

DrJoe205.208.227.49 10:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Investigator

Just clarifying this: Would it be OK to publish material that a investigator has found ? Again, just asking for clarification. Martial Law 04:55, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• You'll have to be more specific. android79 04:57, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I come in and post things, such as what I had found in places, like Fouke, AR., that sort of like what I've already seen here. Do NOT want to violate WP:NOR. Of course I would'nt do that. Just asking for clarification. Martial Law 05:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Appreciate the help. Martial Law 05:49, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

It would be fine if it was from a published and circulated source so that it could have been peer reviewed. But if it is just his/her word, it does not comply with no original research--MONGO 06:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Will have future sources,etc. placed here, persuant to examination, before placement, or not, pending outcome of the examination. This should reduce, if not eliminate nonsense. Martial Law 06:13, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Appreciate the assisstance. Martial Law 06:14, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Unusual link

Can I get a ruling on this link ? It is the Unusual Bigfoot Link. Doing this in accordance w/ stated idea. Martial Law 04:10, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I think this quote from that page will answer your question for you: We have all of these strange cases, close to 100, many of them well-documented, but if you try to call that scientific evidence of anything, you'd be laughed at. About all this link is useful for as a source in Misplaced Pages is Awful Web design. (Why is it that every paranormal page out there looks like it was created in 1996 by a fourteen-year-old?)

answer to android79

Actual field workers have a choice between staying home and becoming expert webmasters, or in getting out, finding new info, and then using amateur skills at being webmasters. You pick. YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH. Of course Android can VOLUNTEER to edit websites. The best edited Bigfoot websites, have the worst field work. You-cannot-have-both. Understand? I mean, WHO PAYS US to have pro websites? Where is MY paycheck? Send me cash. I will hire a pro webmaster. (All this ought to be obvious.)

DrJoeDrJoe 10:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I gave you a link to Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources some time ago. It seems you haven't read it. If you have, you must not have read it very closely. The Internet is a wonderful resource, but it's at least 90% garbage, and for paranormal-related topics it's probably a lot worse than that. There is very little on the Web that will be a useful reference for this article. Anyone with a computer can set up a website in no time at all with very little effort. It takes a lot more credibility to get something published in a respected scientific journal, magazine, or by a reputable book publisher. Please keep this in mind the next time you find one of these random Bigfoot websites. android79 04:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

books as sources, wiki people choosing what is "reputable"

Wikians have no credentials and no names. They are not qualified to decide what books,articles or websites are "reputable". Actual been-there-done-that researchers in this field are better qualified to judge. Wikians are not. HOWEVER, people like Android79 can assist by cleaning up grammar,footnotes style, references style, etc. WE CAN MAKE A "PARTNERSHIP IN CRIME". (tHIS DOES NOT MEAN REAL CRIME....TAKE NOTE FOR WIKI POLICE..) Strange bedfellows.

We produce the info, You do the cleanup. DEAL??????

The goal is to produce the most cutting edge, not-boring, not Britannica, not OLD,OLD Pyle stuff. This means you do use newsletters and the net. Yes, you do. My kid read some DreamGuy reverts, and he said it put him to sleep. On the newer reverts, he said, "far out!".

Give it your Kid Test. Print out two pages. Show them. One is beddy-bye, the other is stay up. DrJoeDrJoe 11:08, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Will do. Martial Law 04:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah...you got that right...even your kid said it was "far out"...that's because it IS FAR OUT...there is zero evidence that Bigfoot comes and goes on a spaceship! Next thing you'll tell us is that Nessie is Bigfoot's pet and every Thursday, they all play cards together with Elvis, James Dean and Marilyn Monroe.--MONGO 11:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Once again, we get the "no names" bullshit, now from someone who feels the need to edit from three different usernames as well as multiple anonymous IP addresses. This is getting tiresome.

I'm qualified to judge the veracity of sources based on Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines. You are, too, though you choose to completely ignore policy. I'm going to continue to do more than just clean up grammar. I'm going to remove POV material and original research as long as it keeps showing up in this article.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. Misplaced Pages is not the place for "cutting-edge" ideas, in any subject, especially if those ideas include wormhole-surfing Bigfoots and Loch Ness Monsters from another dimension. No, we do not use random websites for sources.

If you need to justify your edits as being more "exciting" to a child, regardless of the truth or veracity of the claims made, it's clear that you do not understand the stated goals of Misplaced Pages. Until you do, and until you choose to abide by policy, your edits will be reverted. android79 13:54, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep. android79 is very much in the right here. Friday (talk) 20:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

competence

Sorry, we, the members of the Berkeley Bigfoot Coop (Dr Joe) do not accept that someone is comptent to decide what sources are reputable or not, merely because they say they are. Anyone, my ten year old brother, can say that. It has no meaning nor validity. Just like validating Bigfoot, you have to provide proof of yourself, to us.

The DrJoe group.

DrJoeDrJoe 20:20, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Ahh, but we're not trying to edit your website, see. If the day comes that we do start editing your website, you'll be entirely justified in demanding proof of our expertise. Friday (talk) 20:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

weak argument

And you admit this IS a website. (It is not a pedia, it is an info-site. An online source should have online links.)

-)

The Dr Joe Editing Consortium

DrJoeDrJoe 21:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I admit it, you win. Misplaced Pages is a website. Gosh, I hope nobody finds out. People might start trying to access it with a browser, or something. Friday (talk) 21:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

new hits on Misplaced Pages

This Bigfoot page is now on GOOGLE and more people are coming to see the fireworks!

This is GOOD for Misplaced Pages, good,good, good. It is GOOD!

Stand back and Laissez les bons temps roulez! Eh bien, mes amis?

DrJoeDrJoe 06:03, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

!

Lets keep this civil before things get out of hand. Martial Law 22:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I've been reading about a "Goodape". What is a "Goodape" ? Martial Law 22:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Goodape

This is Robert Sheaffer's cute play on the film title "Looking for Mr Goodbar".

Back in late 90s. Of course, Bigfoot is not an ape. Small detail.

Remember 10,000 or more people a DAY come here to learn the REAL TRUTH about Bigfoot.

They are readIng WHAT YOU SAY.

bESIDES, "gETTING OUT OF HAND" LEADS TO THE TRUTH. You want dull, as with Britannica?

They have maybe 50 words on Bigfoot. No b*lls. Wiki got b*lls. Bravo Wiki!

FIGHT WIKI BOREDOM!

DrJoeDrJoe 06:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

There are enough bad jokes out there for Wikipedians to get their kicks. What Misplaced Pages requires of you (as has already been stated) is for you to abide and respect the policies of Wikiedia and to provide verifiable facts from reputable sources. Take care, Doc. SoLando (Talk) 06:21, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

We are sorry Misplaced Pages does not meet your needs at this time. There's a whole internet out there. Enjoy! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 06:22, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

people making moronic jokes

Have no right to edit.

205.208.227.49 09:16, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

And your edit summary "rv- mongo, go play with the stars of that Mel Brooks Film" is supposed to be serious? Your attempts to continue to make this a fantasy article will ultimately lead to some long term problems I think.--MONGO 09:39, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

People who vandalize and make personal attacks get a time-out. Come back when you can be civilized. android79 18:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Documentary Channels

Today, on the History Channel, I have seen some material on Bigfoot and other cryptids. Channel link is History Channel. Type into the SEARCH area to get info about bigfoot. Martial Law 03:42, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

For my area, this aired on 1-8-06 early morning on the History Channel. 1/2 of the show favored the skeptics, 1/2 favored the believers and those that have seen it. The skeptics do insist on a DEAD body for examination. Martial Law 03:49, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

The show was called History's Mysteries, and has a old style key in the show logo. Martial Law 03:52, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I've decided to protect this page

A rare move for me, but until we can hash out what needs to be in this article, it is the only way to deal with the flow of vandal and sockpuppet acocunts. I will lift protection a couple of days unless someone beats me to it.--MONGO 09:18, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I doubt discussion will help matters, as the problem appears to be one editor stubbornly refusing to follow Misplaced Pages policies and making the same edits across a variety of sockpuppets. There already is very clear consensus that his edits are inappropriate. We can all discuss it and come to the same conclusions, but he won;t change his mind. The only thing that would put a stop to it without a permanent lock down is for beckjord to start following policy, leave, or get under some ArbCom decision. I've seen it happen all the time here. DreamGuy 09:42, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I certainly won't disagree with that. But, posted as much as a kinda ridiculous attempt to assume good faith...if we're going to be dealing with the editing as he wants it, always able to fall back on the fantasy to support the illogical and unproven, then it might have to go to arbcom...but he is using AOL, so that may make a permaban difficult.--MONGO 10:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

True... I'm just saying the ol' "protected, discuss this on the talk page" line when it has been discussed repeatedly and consensus has already been established is one of my pet peeves. Misplaced Pages has some major problems that make it tedious for people trying to do a real encyclopedia to do accomplish anything. Instead we let a single well-known netkook hold articles hostage. Marvelous. If this trend progresses every major article on this site will be permanently stimmied because it only takes one POV-pusher to beat out 5 or 10 or 20 or however many good editors weighed in on the controversy here. It's a recipe for making everything get worse and worse. We should just protect all the damn pages and not let anyone edit until there are reasonable guidelines for encyclopedia writing in place. DreamGuy 11:15, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

A better solution: semi-protection. Any objections? android79 11:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's fine, just he'll have to use one of his logged in accounts to edit, not that this will break my heart.--MONGO 12:11, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

prejudice, here, by Mongo

quote: always able to fall back on the fantasy to support the illogical and unproven,

Commenting on what Mongo says about someone else's alleged edits...

Mongo has to show this is fantasy, and ol Mong just is unable to use real logic to criticise what HE says is illogical. I feel this discussion is above the mental level of most Wiki admins and of bureaucrats, and some outwide logician needs to be brought in to make a detrmination on the logic of these CLAIMED ideas, things __not__ presented as facts , but just presented as speculation, based on actual events. Mongo, Android79m, and worst - DreamGuy are unable to differentiate between a CLAIM (speculation) and an alleged FACT, proven hypothesis. Due to lack of scientific training, no doubt. Better qualified editors need to look in. So, show the "fantasy" and the "illogic", or go away and edit the mundane.

205.188.117.7 20:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

205.188.117.7....I have a masters in forensic anthropology and can tell you that if anyone here lacks scientific training, it's not me. My advisor during my masters thesis was Ellis R. Kerley--MONGO 21:07, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection

I've semi-protected this page; this will stop AOLers and other anonymous users from editing, as well as new sockpuppets (as well as some old ones, hopefully).

Note that this won't be permanant, and I've had to use a rather liberal definition of "vandalism" to justify semi-protection. I consider the ongoing, willful defiance of Misplaced Pages's core policies on verifiability, original research, and neutral point of view that this article has been experiencing to be vandalism. Usage of sockpuppets has only made this problem worse. Established editors who want to add new material to this article are welcome to do so as long as their edits are sourced and do not run afoul of the aforementioned policies. Newer editors who want to do the same can discuss changes here on the talk page first. android79 13:03, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Item needs attention of an editor very badly

+ - interdimensional traveller, due to disappareaing tracks evidence, and vanishings before witnesses. If this proves to be true, + - it will make this comic-book and tabloid joke being become a Nobel Prize material item. Of course, +

 This shows blind prejudice. The incidents are not only true, but some of them

have been documented on videotape. It has no relationship to tabloids unless a tabloid has lifted information from a website or newsletter. Obviously, as the most junior of editors knows, there is no way to get an alleged bigfoot creature to cooperate with an experiment that shows that it can disappear, before cameras, and measuring machines. If anything of that type shows up, it may be form a surviellance camera, and one such incident, involving __alleged__ shape-shifting is in the possession of Jack Lapseritis, MA, in Northern WA. (Proceedings of the 2005 Bellingham Bigfoot Convention.)

Reports of vanishings, and also disappearing tracks in mud and snow,

are found in the book "The Locals" by Thom Powell, listed in refs. below. Also other reports are found in the archives of the discussion site, http://www.bigfootforums.net , as well as on some controversial minority-view websites.

It is the __conclusion__ to be drawn from such events that greatly disturbs

some Bigfoot fans, in fact, most, as well as some of the highly prejudiced editors here in Wiki, who have skeptical POV, and not NPOV.

That conclusion is that space-time wormholes may access this Earth, from other parallel universes, (as discussed re UFOs by Dr Michio Kaku on ABC TV in Feb 05, with Peter Jennings,) and that alleged (unproven - see- NPOV)Bigfoot creatures, and also missing persons, missing aircraft, etc, may use or access these to go to other parallel worlds or universes. Yet this idea of tranversable wormholes is greatly discussed in Physics, and hundreds of website references can be found on the topic in Google. Scientific American discusses them, (Dec 05) and so does "Taking the Quantum Leap" by Dr Fred Allen Wolf, Harper and Row, 1981, isbn 0-06-055137-2 . This makes it hardly "comic book material".

Perhaps Android79 might use his epxertise in editing to enter this material and information into the Bigfoot site.

If not, it is guaranteed that new members will do so, over and over until it sticks.

205.188.117.7 20:40, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

• You know, Beckjord, for one who regularly chastises the rest of us for not using our "real names", you sure do like to pretend to be other people. android79 22:11, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord, you'll have to provide links to the video tapes and and the images, as well as all documented evidence, and it must be from mainstream sources, not from your own website...as that violates WP:NOR.--MONGO 03:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord, STOP changing other people's comments

Listen, you can't go in and put in your own header and change and modify what previous editors said so you can insult them and derail the conversation. That is simply despicable. No anyone trying to read that conversation can;t follow it because you've messed it up completely. And your comments have absolutely nothing to do with making an encyclopedia, they are just personal attacks and contempt for our policies.

And, yes, we all know it's you on the IP addresses and using fake names, especially with all the exact same things you do like inserting your comments into the middle of other people's comments and using the same insults and peculiar ways of typing. Give it up. You have no way to win here, all you can do is prove to the world that you are just as bad as your critics say, willing to vandalize websites, make threats, etc. DreamGuy 23:54, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

do not

do not tell anyone, anyone, what to do. You do not own Misplaced Pages, nobody hired you, you re not paid, you do crappy edits on your own artricles, you are not a cop, you have NO authority.

Go stand in the outhouse, and flush yourself.

(unsigned but by beckjord) 07:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I most certainly can tell you what not to do when those things break Misplaced Pages policy. For example, don't make personal attacks. Changing what other people wrote is obviously not allowed either. Now... are you going to A) read the policies and follow them, B) leave on your accord, or C) get kicked off? Choice is yours. Note that "refuse to follow the policies and do whatever you want" is not an option. DreamGuy 08:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

bigfoot researchers world-wide are viewing this article

and will be editing every day or week, over and over and over.Correcting false info, erronenous info, inadequate claims, correcting such simple things as Wiki listing 8-9 "sightings" as if these were the ONLY sightings, when some 15,000 people have turned in reports to John Green, the author and even to the BFRO group and the BIRO group. Some will be adding, over and over, the fact that one researcher has videotaped tracks in snow that end suddenly, and start suddenly, (Brian Smith, reported in the Bigfoot Coop Journal, June 2003) that just are not in the "mainstream" journals because such journals refuse to report __anything__ about the alleged Bigfoot. You skeptics with skeptic POV will have to permanently freeze this article, with all its flaws and bad editing,bad references, FOREVER. The editors currently involved are not working in good faith, are not honest, and have zero qualifications to edit this topic. Britannica, at least,does identifiy authors. Assume good faith? No. Assume quality? No. Assume ability? No. Assume they have read __even a single book__? No. As for accusations of identity, in America there is due process under law, and people are innocent until proven guilty. Stop the stupid and paranoid accusations. Anyone can write like anyone. Take it to court. You guys are amazing, fighting to be backward and retarded. People like DreamGuy are Thought Police, and would be comfortable in Saddams former empire, and in Orwell's.(1984). Petty rankings like "admin" give them power without any merit nor name. The founder has set up a police state, on-line. Good subject for a PhD thesis. You earn my utmost contempt.

207.200.116.138 07:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry you feel that way. When you come up with one piece of information that doesn't violate no original research then we'll take alook at it. So far, all we see is opinion, not one fact, and that is unencyclopedic. Also be careful with the use of wording like "Take it to court", as that could be perceived to be a violation of no legal threats--MONGO 08:13, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Gee, beckjord, you keep talking about how we should be expecting a massive inundation of Bigfoot supporters to take over the article from us lowly encyclopedic types following the policies here, but it never happens. You had a call to arms on your website to have people come here and revert back to your version, yet all we got was one guy on an anonymous IP address and then you yorself again on a couple sockpuppets account. Fact of the matter is that the majority of those who believe in Bigfoot don't respect you either. Your threats are meaningless, and, worse than that, they are repetitive and boring. DreamGuy 09:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Gee, Dreambarf, visitors will come slowly, not all in one day, and EB is not liked by

the great unwashed majority of Bigfoot fans, who are only one step over Wiki admins in IQ. Intelligent people in the Bigfoot field, about ten, are continually trashed on the net by losers,drop outs and good ol boyz with gunracks and six packs. WHY DON'T YOU KNOW THIS? Because you are too busy fighting off those who DO NOT LIKE YOU over at your own userpage, and the pages you started. Lots of Wiki people do not like you, dude. Not just me... lots of others. I see it, I read it. It is true. Back in 1606 or whatever, YOU would have burned Galileo.

Jeff.

IF that is the case, let's keep it civil. Martial Law 20:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I thought he was pretty subdued when answering someone who said "you earn my utmost contempt". When will you tell your pal Beckjord to keep it civil? Moriori 21:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Just did. I hope he stays civil. Martial Law 03:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

?!!!!

?!!!! Martial Law 08:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Can I get this link examined ?

The link is Bigfoot Sightings Homepage. This may be a bombshell. Martial Law 08:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I did read all pertainable matter. I do NOT know what to make of this site. Martial Law 08:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Appears to be a blog...get us something from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park Service, U.S. Forest Service, any published work from a university, anything from the National Science Foundation or the journal Scientific American, or better yet from the American Anthropological Association. To be creditible, it must come from credible sources.--MONGO 08:26, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Sigh, Mongo, Mongo, Mongo! Those orgs have NO FUNDING for bf research, and according to our lord and master, EB, and to some extent, Dr Michio Kaku, CCNY, there is no point in endlessly

barking up the flesh and blood animal tree. Of COURSE there is no "animal" Bigfoot. What there is instead is more complex, a shape-shifter, and perhaps(maybe) an interdimensional group (mothers, kids, fathers) that travel to here and out again. The skeptics are 100% right - there are or is, NO normal animal bigfoot. It is something else.

jeff

• Here's something for you to read. --MONGO 08:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
• This may be even more interesting. --MONGO 08:34, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Can I also get a ruling on this as well ? Sasquatch Data ? Martial Law 08:53, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't personally mind having that link put in the additional or external links section, but I scanned a few of the internal links and they mostly answer questions with questions, so they don't really provide anything more than sparce evidence, little of it scientific.--MONGO 09:12, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

This link appears to support all sides. Martial Law 08:54, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Also found this as well Project Bigfoot Martial Law 08:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

That one is just a website, not a scientific jouranl or anything of the like...as far as your question below, Beckjord can read it here as I'm sure he does.--MONGO 09:14, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Can you send a copy to User:Beckjord as well: Re.: what you have discussed w/ me ? Martial Law 08:59, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, he'll benefit from this. Martial Law 08:59, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Just maybe he'll benefit from our discussion. Martial Law 09:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC) I know I have. Martial Law 09:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Beware websites that HAVE NO AUTHOR NAME. Whereas I advocate using some websites, I do not

endorse using ALL websites. 99% of all Bigfoot websites are garbage. 97% have no author name, and no contact info. Good ones are http://www.bigfootresearch.org many ususual sightings and http://www.bigfoot.org most photos and PhDs. Another one is http://www.bigfootencounters.com Bobby Short. If any of these are wrong addresses, try putting net or org in place of com. Martial Law is overly impressed by fancy graphics and expensive style. No name, no game. I admit MOST websites are not good sources. Look for members who are scientists, and not even then is it perfect. One site, not named, has tons of sightings reports, and some claimed scientists on its staff, but is run by a hoaxer who has chased off 80% of his best researchers. Most of those scientists have also left. Trust no one.

jeff

Newspaper Link

Skunk Ape/Florida's Bigfoot

Is this a credible source ? It is from a local Florida newspaper. Martial Law 19:35, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Most reports from FLA are from a hoaxer named Shealy, and can be ignored.

Others report a Bigfoot (BF) running across a road, but--- so what? ALL THAT COUNTS IS DEAD BODY AND NOBODY HAS THAT. Endless clippings prove nothing.

good try tho.

jeff

What of these:

• Bigfoot Museum

Old site, outdated links, old concept

Jeff

• Texas Bigfoot Site

These Texas people find broken sticks and tracks

So what? They DO NOT FIND DEAD BIGFOOT.

Stick with http://www.bigfootresearch.org paracontacts, http://www.bigfoot.org most photos, and http://www.bigfootencounters.com Bobby Short

Jeff

• Bigfoot Site

Martial Law 19:55, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• The newspaper appears to be a local newspaper. I'm not even able to verify that it's an actual, printed newspaper and not some web-only thing. The smaller and more local a newspaper gets, the less useful it is as a source. android79 20:07, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

The National Geographic site

Perhaps the most compelling photographic evidence of Bigfoot is a controversial short film shot by Roger Patterson in 1967, which appears to document a female Bigfoot striding along a riverbank in northern California.

"It certainly wasn't human"

Email to a Friend

RELATED Loch Ness Sea Monster Fossil a Hoax, Say Scientists Rare African Predator Photographed for First Time Elusive Snow Leopard Seen in Rare Photos Elusive African Apes: Giant Chimps or New Species?

Now, Bigfoot advocates are increasingly turning to forensic evidence to prove the existence of the giant creature.

Investigator Jimmy Chilcutt of the Conroe Police Department in Texas, who specializes in finger- and footprints, has analyzed the more than 150 casts of Bigfoot prints that Meldrum, the Idaho State professor, keeps in a laboratory.

Chilcutt says one footprint found in 1987 in Walla Walla in Washington State has convinced him that Bigfoot is real.

"The ridge flow pattern and the texture was completely different from anything I've ever seen," he said. "It certainly wasn't human, and of no known primate that I've examined. The print ridges flowed lengthwise along the foot, unlike human prints, which flow across. The texture of the ridges was about twice the thickness of a human, which indicated that this animal has a real thick skin."

Meldrum, meanwhile, says a 400-pound (180-kilogram) block of plaster known as the Skookum Cast provides further evidence of Bigfoot's existence. The cast was made in September 2000 from an impression of a large animal that had apparently lain down on its side to retrieve some fruit next to a mud hole in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest in Washington State.

Meldrum says the cast contains recognizable impressions of a forearm, a thigh, buttocks, an Achilles tendon and heel. "It's 40 to 50 percent bigger than a normal human," he said. "The anatomy doesn't jive with any known animal."

A few academics believe Meldrum could be right.

Renowned chimpanzee researcher Jane Goodall last year surprised an interviewer from National Public Radio when she said she was sure that large, undiscovered primates, such as the Yeti or Sasquatch, exist.

comment- well, this still talks about Bigfoot, but did you guys think some souirce will say Bigfoot is PROVEN? Never. It cannot be proven, since it is paranormal.

I do not know where ML is going with all this. Good tries, bit he misses the main point=

with so many sighitngs and some film, why is there no f&b BF ???

Ans: It is paranormal and beyond ability of science to study now.

THAT is your big story.

gOT IT?

Jeff.

Two links

Two links say "Bigfoot is REAL". They are:

• Bigfoot Real Link #1
• National Geographic Article Says Bigfoot Is real

This may be a real bombshell. Martial Law 01:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

If link is malfunctioning, go offsite. Martial Law 01:25, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The NatGeo article was published in 2003. If it were a bombshell, why are we still debating this in 2006? It says, essentially, what our article already says: there is a vocal minority of Bigfoot fans that insist he is real. Nothing more.

I can't get to the first link, and I have no idea what you mean by "go offsite". android79 01:28, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

You get off wikipedia to access sites that may be malfunctioning on Misplaced Pages. Martial Law 01:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Still not following you. That makes no sense. android79 01:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Could I insert the National Geographic site ? Martial Law 01:34, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll need to give it a closer read. android79 01:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I've accessed the 1st link off Misplaced Pages, site comes up w/ NO problems. I accessed same site on Misplaced Pages, the server says that a 401 error or some kind of error happens instead of the site comming up. Martial Law 01:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The tech boys need to have a look at this. Martial Law 01:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea what you mean by on or off Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages cannot control your access to other parts of the web in any way. android79 01:50, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages's server has a few bugs. Access the link while you're off of Misplaced Pages, then access the same link from this talk page.

I'm almost absolutely sure that's got nothing to do with Misplaced Pages. android79 02:01, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Just found this link as well. It is Bigfoot Biologist. Martial Law 01:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Martial Law, I gave you a list of what would be construed as reliable witness as far as referenced based information. I certainly mean no offense, but a loy opf those links are to websites, probably set up by one or two people that are simply providing their original research.

For crying out loud, the National Geographic article does not say Bigfoot is real, it quotes one guy who works at a police department as him saying he thinks Bigfoot is real, but then it also says "But the vast majority of scientists still believe Bigfoot is little more than supermarket tabloid fodder." National Geographic itself does not take a stance. Please do not link to sources and claim they say things they do not. DreamGuy 05:18, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

note

In many cases, such websites quote the research of others, not just their own.But I agree many are not credible. You must pick and choose.

But also note that NO UNIVERSITY funds and BF research, and NO PROFESSORS except Dr Jeff Meldrum, have done out on their own to do such research.

One PhD skeptic, Dr Molly Hanson, did go on a BF expedition, and FOUND TRACKS OF HER OWN, and became a believer.

In general, in amateur BF res., most alleged researchers do nothing, know nothing and criticize any that do anything. A seething soup of jealousy. Beware.

Dr Meldrum has a loose advisor relationship to the BIRO site, http://www.bigfoot.org BIRO

He has DROPPED OUT of the BFRO group.

-)

Jeffry

If a scientific paper or research is published, then it has been peer reviewed and fact checked for the most part. I would also be leery of books on the subject, unless they have been published by the scientific community. The National Geographic simply quotes another source, they themselves take a neutral stand.--MONGO 03:29, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

That is why I have them checked out, instead of being just thrown in. Cheers User:MONGO. Martial Law 05:45, 11 January 2006 (UTC) :)

I think Mongo's point was, that given the previous track record of the random websites you've asked us to vet, it should be pretty easy by now to tell, for yourself, whether or not a given website would be a useful source. android79 06:29, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Got it. There is some really weird sites out there, thus is why I needed those found checked out. One claimed that it was a scholarly site. One really strange one, the Bigfoot Biologist site claims that the creature is for real, another claimed a hoaxer was killed impersonating a Bigfoot. I've seen some that make User:Beckjord's site look scholarly. Some of them claim that Bigfoot is some kind of demon. Personally, I thought I had seen it all. Appreciate the assisstance. I was in the Fouke, Arkansas area myself investigating the Bigfoot incident there. It is a small town, all are well armed, and one idiot threatened to shoot ME if I was, as he put it, "one of those (expletive)(expletive) skeptical (expletives)." Only proof I have is just a verbal conversation between this guy and myself. I'm a evidence man myself. See the article The Legend of Boggy Creek, which is based on horrifying police and civilian reports. I am no longer in the Fouke area. Again, appreciate the assisstance. Misplaced Pages has already helped me crush one rumor already. Martial Law 07:41, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

By the way, is Science Frontiers credible ? It airs on PBS, on ther documentary channels from time to time. I do NOT know if it is still on the air. Martial Law 08:09, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Link is Science Frontiers Homepage. The TV show did air on PBS many times, as well as the other documentary channels. This is one site I do need a ruling on. I placed "Bigfoot" in the SEARCH icon. 1/2 is like what Misplaced Pages has, 1/2, well you have to see it. Martial Law 08:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

It appears to be a UK originated documentary type of site. Martial Law 08:20, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

!

>> I do not think Mongo, or anyone else here, is qualified to judge the reputation of a source.\ Also, it you want this article to be old,old, and stuffy, limited, then ask for "mainstream" sources. Those all have their heads up their ***es and they all are terribly biased at the onset. They predetermine their outcomes. Have to, to keep their jobs! Same goes for most tv docs. They are instructed by their network, "This is how your show will look." One semi-decent one, just semi, was Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science by White Wolf Productions, now on dvd.

Jeff

Please sign your statements. Martial Law 08:38, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Beckjord: I have been instructed to tell you that like you, I have to follow Wikipedian policies. Martial Law 08:38, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

This means that you have to be CIVIL. Martial Law 08:40, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I am NOT lying to you at all, never have, never will, and I will tell it like it is. What is the nature of the DVD you had just referred to ? Martial Law 08:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

MOngo say do not tell Jeff what to do.

Now the DVD is on sale and is a copy of the program that came out last year nationally, maybe 2003. Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science. It is not perfect, but has many good items in it, and a new BF video, plus the PG Film . Link to sales site is via http://www.bfro.net or http://www.bfro.org BFRO . I do not recommend this site except for some links to reports.

In general, hoaxers and frauds are Loren Coleman, Tom Biscardi, Matt Moneymaker, Paul Vella.

Good guys are Dr Jeff Meldrum, Idaho State, Dr Thomas Tomasi, SW Missouri State, Dr Henner Fahrenbach, Beverton Primate Center, OR, author John Green,MA, BC Canada, Peter Guttilla, author, Overland, CA, Dr Molly Hanson, Eagle Rock, LA,CA and other PhDs unable to reveal names.

Admns can take this info and edit into the page in soime manner that makes them feel good aboiut doing it. THIS IS AN ONGOING MYSTERY. IT IS NOT A PROVEN FACT. But then, so is evolution.

-)

Jeff

Overview for Mongo and Martial Law

Jeff feels that ML is missing the point on this page.

The skeptics are CORRECT. There is NO flesh and blood normal animal Bigfoot species. None.

There is no need to try to show that anyone thinks there is a real BF. Because BF is a

   PHENOMENON and not a normal real animal thing.

10,000 books and sites will not prove it.

What is needed is wormhole research, so see this guy;'s site. http://www.beckjord.com/wormholesinuse bigfoot and wormholes

So, the skeptics WIN!!!  But Bigfoot is beyond their feeble concept.

We need to address THE BIGFOOT PHENOMENON.

Consider this in your editing. SKEPTICS ARE RIGHT!

But BF is more than that.

Smile,

jeff

Beckjord, I am one of those that am willing to concede that Bigfoot has a one in 50 chance of being real. This is based on the slim chance that Paranthropus boisei or Paranthropus robustus has survived with only minor evolutionary changes. There is NO evidence that Bigfoot travels through wormholes...only your conjecture...I'm sorry, but that is the best I can state it.--MONGO 10:27, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

>>> Bigfoot is not real, not flesh and blood zoologically real.

Paranthropus would last three days here, and get caught in a dumpster.

Wormholes is a speculative theory and deserves mention.

Jeff

Beckjord, your first task is to stop pretending to be "Jeff" and the "DrJoe Editing Consortium" and whatever other names you've used for yourself in the past. Using other accounts to create the illusion of broader support for a position is a violation of Misplaced Pages policy. android79 19:15, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

>> Abdroid79 -- "G.F.Y." understand?

Jeff

>>>>Major fallacy.

I,Jeff, have never said that there was proof that Bigfoot or ufos go thru wormholes.

You typical non-scientists, often HS drop outs, do not understand the word "speculation".

I, and various others, SPECULATE' that bigfoot does this, based on vanishings and disdappearing tracks in snow.

We advocates NEVER said this was proven. For that matter, Black Holes are never proven,

and neither is much of astrophysics.

Now go to tHE evolution page, and wipe it out. There is no proof.

Bonk!

PS : do not tell me what to do. Your best bet it to take some of what I edit, and make the references changes that make you pedants happy, and save it. Cooperate. Because I WILL NOT go away. Go work on your own pages. I will accept NO orders. I will come back in a 1000 otehr means and ways. Got it? Now go home to momma.

Jeff....

Sorry, "Jeff", that's not how it works. android79 19:54, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Erik, stop pretending to be somebody named "Jeff" and stop threatening us. You will either follow the policies of this project or your edits will be erased soon after they are made, just like they have been for a while now. Following Misplaced Pages policies is not optional if you want to contribute here. DreamGuy 19:59, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Beckjord: All that will result from this is that the article will end up being locked from further editing. As stated, I'm NOT lying to you at all. There are ways of handling matters on Misplaced Pages. Martial Law 21:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC) :)

I've already seen it locked twice, semi protected once that I know of. Martial Law 21:38, 11 January 2006 (UTC) :-)

Bigfoot hex

DG will find his wife or gf in bed with his best friend. He will lose the little hair he has left, along with his teeth. Children will throw stones at him on the street. All his mythology edits will be reverted to the end of time. A movement will start to strip him of his admin. Jimbo will personally kick him out and ban him forever. Bunchofgrapes will pour rancid butter all over him. Stangers will invite him to go up Brokeback Mountain. A plague of locusts will cover his beet garden. Dogs will snarl and cats hiss.

James

So, since we won't let you put the fantasies you support in here, you post this garbage. Nice you can hide behind AOL with it's dynamic IP range...we can block entire ranges of IP's too, you know. Do not engage in any more personal attacks as they will be removed on sight, James, Beckjord...--MONGO 13:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Looks like a Gypsy Curse to me. This is NOT any kind of bias,etc. When you investigate paranormal matters, you literally "see it all.". When I saw this, I thought I had seen it all. Martial Law 21:16, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Nominate User:Dreamguy to be a Admin.

User:Dreamguy is not a Admin. If you like User:Beckjord, I could have him nominated to become a Admin. Martial Law 10:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord as an admin? You can't be serious. android79 13:27, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

He meant "If you like, Beckjord, I could have him nominated to become a Admin." ("him" meaning Dreamguy, who Beckjord had fantasized about stripping of nonexistent admin power in his recent weird attack post). —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:05, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. Missing comma tripped me up. android79 16:11, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

User:DreamGuy(Excuse the formality), Would you like to be nominated to be a Admin. ? This is your call. Martial Law 21:21, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think "well, someone who makes personal attacks on him seems to think he already is one, so why not?" is a valid reason to nominate someone for admin status. You already asked me about a month back on my talk page if you should nominate me, and I already declined your offer. Thanks anyway. DreamGuy 22:19, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikimood ?

Can someone explain this, and the needle's current position ? Martial Law 22:06, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

It's a parody of meta:Wikimood. Someone found it humorous that the parody uses "Bigfoot" as a stress indicator. android79 22:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Hex ?

I thought I had seen it all, until now. Martial Law 10:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protected

And, surprise surprise, once the semi-protection is lifted, we get an inundation of AOL IPs making the same changes. Semi-protected again. android79 12:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Either keep it this way or place it under full protection, as a precaution, until this new Edit War is over, and there are no more of them. Martial Law 22:00, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

From Sports Illustrated

You have got to see THIS one. It is allegedly from Sports Illustrated. Link is: Bigfoot Article in Sports Magazine. Someone found this in a magazine called Sports Illustrated, and submitted it to a Bigfoot organization. Martial Law 04:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Should this be placed in the article ? Martial Law 21:21, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I was going to place this as a External link. Martial Law 21:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

TRUTH

User:Beckjord, I have told you the truth, no more, no less. The Bigfoot page is now protected. Call off this nonsense before you get tossed out like a rot riddled egg. You know I have NOT lied to you at all, and am not lying to you now, will not lie to you. If Jimbo sees this mess, he may have you tossed himself. Like you, I have to follow Wikipedian Protocol myself.

How do you know that they use wormholes, and are'nt they disruptive ? Who is to say that they're beamed down to Earth, and removed, like what is depicted in Star Trek ? After all, some web sites and data sites do mention UFOs seen with Bigfoot, such as the UFO being overhead when a Bigfoot is seen in some of these cases.

Again, you must call off this mess before things really get out of hand. I've seen the results of a really bad Edit War. They make Hiroshima(1945 era) and Nagasaki(1945 era) look good. Martial Law 21:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC) :)

• I agree with everything you said up until "Hiroshima". That kind of hyperbole really isn't necessary. android79 22:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Some people don't understand how bad a Edit War can get. Martial Law 23:26, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the last comment, even if you think it's vandalism, it's very true. There is a massive difference between an edit war (Lord knows I've seen enough in my time) and the deaths of tens of thousands of people. While it is true that some conflicts can get nasty and some people like to take things off the internet into real life, it no where is in the scale of that. I'm sorry for the terseness of my other comment, that sort of thing tends to sneak up on me when I see poor hyperboles.--141.157.252.125 03:04, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Just stating how bad things can really get, no more,no less. Martial Law 20:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Even I cannot edit the Bigfoot article, even if I had found a real bombshell. Martial Law 03:02, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Other really bad one I've seen is on the "Otherkin" article. That one was a real nightmare.Martial Law 03:22, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

What is a "Otherkin" ? I've read the article, and I'm still curious about this matter ? Martial Law 02:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Try Talk:Otherkin, though you'll probably get no more information there, either. I have my own opinions, but in the interest of civility, I'll keep quiet. android79 02:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

MERGE?

It has been proposed that Arguments against the existence of Bigfoot and Arguments for the existence of Bigfoot be merged into one article called Existence of Bigfoot. I think would probably be a good idea, but I wanted to get the opinion from the parent article, so to speak. Does Bigfoot need another article or is this one sufficient? Kerowyn 03:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Interesting idea. Martial Law 04:33, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Merge all into this article. Martial Law 04:39, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

What the heck? Those are just WP:FORK files from content already on this page. When we improve those sections here they stay unimproved over there. There's no need to even vote, those need to be redirected to the main article, because their existence is a violation of policy. DreamGuy 05:06, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

In any case, the Bigfoot article will need to be broken up eventually as it becomes bigger. Articles should stay relatively short if possible, and if not they should be broken up. See Misplaced Pages:Guide to writing better articles. --Every1blowz 05:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

It actually needs to be trimmed down quite a bit as there's a lot of fluff on it. There shouldn't even be pro and con sections within this article, it should be discussed as one whole and not take sides back and forth. furthermore, if sections are eventually spun off, there are a lot more logical sections to do so with. The existence of Bigfoot... kind of has to be on the Bigfoot page, yaknow? DreamGuy 05:39, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll be bold and redirect these. I've no prejudice against moving content between the articles, but I agree that they should all be merged. Friday (talk) 05:52, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, I didn't even noticed they've already been redirected. In case anyone couldn't tell, this redirect looks like a good idea to me. Friday (talk) 05:54, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Redirects: yes, please. Splitting this article: no, it needs to be trimmed. android79 06:01, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Sweet. Thanks, guys and/or girls! Kerowyn 11:11, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

The article just needs to be trimmed? No, I don't think so.

The current Bigfoot article is like 120kb! You'd have to do a ton of trimming to conform to 32kb standards. It's in this article's best interest to follow the simple guideline "Articles, other than lists, should aim to be less than 32kb in size." Although this is not policy, it’s a good idea nonetheless as the current article is much too cluttered. This may also give us the edge in becoming a featured article.

Not to mention removing or otherwise trimming information is really defeating the purpose of Misplaced Pages. There is no such thing as "fluff" and I argue we should not remove anything as all information is valuable. Just rewrite some stuff to polish up the current article and split it up the rest.

For instance, the current article can discuss what a sasquatch is and et cetera. The pro and con thing can go into another article named something to the effect of "Bigfoot controversy". --Every1blowz 00:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Leaving aside "there is no such thing as fluff" -- there most certainly is -- there are plenty of ways to shorten the article without removing information. Use more concise prose. Eliminate redundancy. Summarize and paraphrase quotations from references where appropriate. Not to mention that there's probably a lot of unverified, unsourced junk in there that we've missed. android79 01:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Andriod79 completely, and, more to the point, as I already stated, if we do have to split things off, there are much, MUCH, much better sections to split off than one so central to the entire topic. For example, many articles have split off the popular culture section to a new article to avoid having only marginally related trivia take up so much space, so we could have a Bigfoot in fiction or Bigfoot in popular culture article and save space there. We could trim the info on the Patterson movie. We could get rid of the alleged sightings as a list and have an article on all those (but then w'd have to watch that one like a hawk too, as people like to put unsourced and biased info there). An article like Bigfoot controversy is the last thing we should do.DreamGuy 01:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Concur absolutely with android and DreamGuy, with the exception of Bigfoot sightings, which I reserve judgment on. KillerChihuahua 01:31, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced? Then we try to find sources. Removing stuff which cannot be verified is, I believe, a last resort rather than the priority.

I can hardly believe that "Using more concise prose", etc. will shorten the article THAT much.

Whether you like it or not, I think it’s obvious that as the Bigfoot article becomes larger it will be split up eventually by others. I think we might as well start now.

--Every1blowz 01:42, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree absolutely we need to look for sources, as well as fix footnotes, and do cleanup. I regret that I cannot agree with you on splitting the article at this point - I think DreamGuy is correct, and we should split the article as appropriate, but I feel cleanup takes priority - we can organize and split intelligently that way, rather than be chasing bits of text back and forth across different articles, all needing attention. I feel we need to focus on organization and structure, and where to spin off child articles will become more clear. The article is overlength, true, but not horrendously so, and "desired" is not the same as "absolute upper limit" - there have been several FA's which were "overlength". One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahua 01:48, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

“Eliminate redundancy.” With an article so long, you cannot possibly hope to eliminate redundancy. Things will be duplicated and misplaced with so much editable text present.

Well anyway, since the majority disagrees with me then by popular vote the article will probably stay unsplit for a while. But for the meantime I do think that organization is the best option. Dreamguy has excellent ideas as to splitting up certain sections "Bigfoot in fiction" so if anyone decides to do it in the future please start there.--Every1blowz 01:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Well in regards to the 32kb limit rule, that was created back in the day when most people had dial-up connections. It's no longer considered a hard-and-fast rule, more like actual guidelines. Kerowyn 03:07, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Correct, but it needs a savage haircut nonetheless. If ever there was an example where someone started with a theory and then amassed screeds of questionable "evidence" to try to prove the theory, this one is it. It's a true mess. . Moriori 03:13, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Is..

Is your keypad acting up User:Beckjord ? I had to replace one some time back, and now use one of those wireless models. I had accidentally spilled a coffee into the other keypad, and it was smoking real bad. This may explain some of your typos. Martial Law 02:18, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

If you've got messages for Beckjord, use his talk page, please. android79 02:20, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Beckjord blocked

I have blocked 205.208.227.49 for 48 hours for threats and disruption on this page. Also Beckjord, while I was about it.. See this edit for proof that they're the same. Bishonen | talk 21:23, 14 January 2006 (UTC).

Article has given birth to new article

Visit Bigfoot Controversy .

See if it lasts one day.

Takes pressure off this article, since current editors __refuse__ to mention the issue.

luminary666Luminary666 07:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

!

! Martial Law 09:06, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Ever / Wikipedian Martial Law

Ever hear about the Wikipedian version of Martial Law User:Beckjord ? Here, it means the article is permanently "locked down" (protected) and only Admins. and those of higher ranks may edit the locked down article. All it takes is one more Edit War, one more personal attack, and some Admin may initiate the Wikipedian version of Martial Law. Other Editors, such as I will not be permitted to edit the affected article. We will have to recomend any and all edits in the article's discussion page, and hope a Admin will edit what was presented to the said article. This is the Wikipedian version of Martial Law.

As stated, this would be done to negate any and all Edit Wars. Even those editors using sock puppets would be negated on articles that have been placed under "Martial Law", and the Check User tool is also used on any and all suspected sockpuppets.

You want to edit, follow Wikipedian protocol and be civil at all times. I have not lied to you, am not lying to you, will not lie to you. Martial Law 10:06, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

To other Wikipedians: I do apologise for any inconviences this may cause. This is intended to put a stop to any and all Edit wars, rampant vandalisim and personal attacks, etc. that may disrupt Misplaced Pages. Martial Law 10:10, 15 January 2006 (UTC) :)

I love this site far too much to have it disrupted. Martial Law 10:14, 15 January 2006 (UTC)