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Where is the right place to put the official translations from Ahmadinejad's page that say Israel should be wiped off the map?
"the Zionist Regime of Israel faces a deadend and will under God's grace be wiped off the map." and "the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map."
In response to the question "whether Ahmadinejad believed in need for elimination of Israel from the world map" he answers "We say such moves need to be ended; now if the only way to end them is to wipe Israel, well let it be wiped."
These quotes are not from the "World Without Zionism" speech, (though they are relevant to it) instead they're from 2008. Where is the right place to put them in the article? Drsmoo (talk) 23:27, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
References
- A new section is warranted if (1) you can show the quote is notable in some way (is the translation accurate, is it contested, or has it caused controversy?) and (2) if the quote has been picked up and reproduced be reliable sources. Dynablaster (talk) 00:47, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
- It is the official website of the President of Iran and run by the Iranian Government. It is as notable regarding Ahmadinejad as a source is possible to be. Drsmoo (talk) 01:55, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
- State-controlled Iranian websites, alone, are not a reliable sources for anything. We would do well to recall that an English translation on IRIB News is the source of the original controversy. I have no idea if this more recent quote is accurate or inaccurate, but lacking reliable sources it is beside the point. Has the New York Times deemed this statement to be of any significance? BBC Online? CNN? Please produce sources that show the quote is notable (preferably ones that affirm its accuracy). I am simply following guidelines. Dynablaster (talk) 12:20, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
- Drsmoo’s question 16 December is put rather strange, but Dynablaster’s reaction is put strange too. The new information here is that a rather official-looking website, president.ir/en/, is publishing ‘speeches’ from Ahmadinejad in which he supposedly uses phrases like “Israel … wiped off the map”. This could perhaps become ‘notable’ information for Misplaced Pages as soon as anyone authoritative would take this Iranian website serious, no sooner. --Corriebertus (talk) 14:26, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
U.S. Senate resolution Dec. 2005 concerning "anti-semitic statements" of Ahmadinejad?
I’m fully prepared to accept a notification in Misplaced Pages (see section Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel#Accusations of anti-semitism) saying that the U.S. Senate passed a resolution, December 2005, condemning “anti-semitic statements” from Ahmadinejad, provided such a notification would be truly referenced. However, the given web link Cleveland.com is dead, the links New York Sun and Wall Street Joutnal don’t directly cite from such a resolution. This troubles me; if noone gives a serious reference, I’m afraid we have to delete this paragraph.--Corriebertus (talk) 15:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
- Fixed; I found that resolution. Reference is now in the article.--Corriebertus (talk) 12:04, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Al-Alam interview 8 December 2005
On 8 December 2005, in Mecca during a two-day meeting of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, the Iranian Arab-language satellite television channel Al-Alam invited Mr Ahmadinejad for an interview. We do not know the question or questions posed to Ahmadinejad by the Al-Alam host. Of Ahmadinejad’s remarks in the interview four reports exist which differ remarkably.
Underneath we give remarks ascribed to Ahmadinejad by at least two reports in bold script, and extensions of these given in only one report in brackets. Of every word, batch of words, or whole sentence, the tag above the first word indicates the press report(s) they are taken from.
“(Is it not true that) European countries insist that (they committed a Jewish genocide? They say that) Hitler killed/burned millions of (innocent) Jews in furnaces.”
”They believe in this so much and are so determined that any researcher who denies it with historical evidence is dealt with in a most harsh way and sent to prison.”
”(Because the Jews have been oppressed during the Second World War the Europeans have to support the occupying regime of Qods.) We do not accept this] (claim, but if we would suppose it to be true, we ask the Europeans: is the death of innocent Jewish people by Hitler the reason for their support of the occupiers of Jerusalem?)”
“Now that you, Germany and Austria, believe the Jews were oppressed, why should the Palestinian Muslims have to pay (the price) (a price for it)?” “(Why did you come to give a piece of Islamic land and the territory of the Palestinian people to the Jews?)”
“(If) you, Germany and Austria, oppressed the Jews (so)] give a part of Europe to the Zionist regime ] (and) We would/shall support it.” “(So,) Germany and Austria ] (come and)(must )(can ) give to the Zionist regime (one, two or any number of your) (a few of their) (two or three) provinces so the Zionist regime can create a country there and the problem will be solved (at its root)(completely).”
Both the links 59 and 60 are dead links, propose to delete this or find a better source. Cr!mson K!ng (talk) 22:14, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Cleaned up the article and links fixed with two working links. Cr!mson K!ng (talk) 13:42, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
# 1.1 "Wiped off the map" or "Vanish from the pages of time" translation
"One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising. The inflammatory 'wiped off the map' quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy."
The language of this whole paragraph is an opinion and represents biasness. For eg, "One may wonder" and "The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm" this is an extremely biased POV. This whole para needs to be reworked onto. Cr!mson K!ng (talk) 13:52, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
Corrected the article Cr!mson K!ng (talk) 20:03, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- That was a direct quote; I think it should have stayed that way with proper attribution. I actually think your change made the section more POV. It sounds like Misplaced Pages's opinion rather than Arash Norouzi's. csloat (talk) 22:19, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- "The language of this whole paragraph is an opinion and represents biasness." We are allowed to describe various opinions providing it is clearly attributed and designated as such. On this basis I am reverting to the previous wording. Wikispan (talk) 22:31, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
That is fine but if one is including his opinion on source then one should also include his statements on Wiped off the map statement. I hope it's not a problem if I add that back as well so his views on the entire subject may be known Cr!mson K!ng (talk) 13:55, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
- The passage is a bit long therefore I have trimmed it a fraction. Compromise? Wikispan (talk) 18:50, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
- The full quote translated directly to English: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
- Word by word translation: Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
Sure no problemo.. I have just the above lines as it's relevant to the topic I hope you don't mind mate. Regards, Cr!mson K!ng (talk) 14:26, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Israel "will be annihilated" - speech 11 Mar 2010
Published by Press TV, owned by the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting IRIB:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=120579§ionid=351020101
Speaking in the southern Iranian Province of Hormozagan on Thursday, Ahmadinejad said that Israel was a Western prodigy that had now "reached the end of its road."
(snip)
"But whether they want it or not, with god's grace, this regime will be annihilated and Palestinians and other regional nations will be rid of its bad omen," he added.
(snip)
The article on "Ahmadinejad and Israel' is a prime example of a really bad Misplaced Pages article. Ahmadinejad has said similar things - 'annihilated', 'wiped off the map' etc etc numerous times, all reported by Iranian government news agencies. And still, Wikipedian authors keep on referring to 'bad translation' etc. Very sad example of desinformation in action. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Utalempe (talk • contribs) 16:41, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
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