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POV

The section on views on climate change is grossly one-sided and amounts to a BLP violation. I don't have time to fix it now William M. Connolley (talk) 22:07, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

On second thoughts I'm right - the section as it stands is a BLP violation, by grossly misrepresenting her views, so I've removed it. Don't put it back until it correctly represents her position: viz: support for basic GW theory; disagreement with some recent IPCC methods William M. Connolley (talk) 22:10, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Made an attempt. Didn't see the need for a separate section for "views on climate change". Thepm (talk) 23:21, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Reinserted reliably sourced material which was removed. There was no blp violation here at all. Unless you think she did not say what she has said? mark nutley (talk) 07:48, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

On the contrary, the grossly one-sided representation of Curry's views is a clear BLP iolation, and I've removed the material again. The fact that it is reliably sourced is irrelevant; the point is that it is grossly partisan and unrepresentative William M. Connolley (talk) 08:36, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know whether it could really be classified as a BLP violation, but it's irrelevant. MN - think about what point you're trying to clarify for the reader. I assume it's that she has taken some climate scientists to task over their approach. That point's made by the sentence; While she supports the scientific opinion on climate change, she has written that Climatologists should be more transparent in their dealings with the public saying, "This whole concept of, ‘We’re the experts, trust us,’ has clearly gone by the wayside". Labouring that point is just piling on (is there a wiki essay about piling on? There ought to be). Thepm (talk) 08:44, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

There is no blp violation here, wmc self revert as you are in breach of your 1r parole. Thepm, it is highly notable that she has tried to talk to sceptics, and that she has posted on sceptic blogs. I will of course put this back if wmc refuses to self revert and continues to break his paroles mark nutley (talk) 08:50, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

MN - bearing in mind that the point that she has been critical of climatologists has already been made, the deleted material can be summarised as follows;

1. She's critical of some of her colleagues

2. She's critical of the IPCC

3. She's critical of Climatologists

4. She posted on WUWT (ie directly engaged skeptics)

5. She's critical of scientists

I recommend against you putting it all back because right now, you don't have consensus to do that. On the other hand, I do think it's notable that she's directly engaged skeptics and a single sentence to illustrate that would probably be worthwhile. Thepm (talk) 09:09, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

WMC had no consensus to remove it, berate him not me. Can you explain why you think it is not a notable event that she posts and discusses issues on sceptic blogs? It is notable. The removal of reliably sourced material without reason is against policy, and it is going back in, it is a notable event and should be properly recorded mark nutley (talk) 09:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Consensus is irrelevant for BLP William M. Connolley (talk) 09:42, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

There was no blp violation, self revert mark nutley (talk) 09:44, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I've added a sentence that makes the point that she supports engagement of skeptics. I think it's a separate point the the one in the previous sentence. Thepm (talk) 10:06, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

And I've just realised that I didn't put an edit summary. Can I fix that? Thepm (talk) 10:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I don`t think you can change edit summaries, your best bet i to self revert and then revert again so you can put one in, what you have added is good, however i believe readers should know whic hblogs she has posted on, is there any reason this can`t also be added? mark nutley (talk) 10:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

readers should know whic hblogs she has posted on - really? Would they also like to know what she has for tea? William M. Connolley (talk) 10:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Apparently she's a meat and potatoes kind of person, but really WMC, I don't think that's relevant for the article. MN - No, I don't think we need to be specific about the blogs. She's already published on two and I suspect there will be more. We don;t need them itemised. Thepm (talk) 10:36, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Given she has posted on the three main sceptic sites i really do not see an issue with saying she posted her open letter on Climate Audit and on Watts Up With That, it is were she has posted that is the crux of the issue. I notice no objection to real climate being used in the article, why is that? mark nutley (talk) 10:39, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Real climate isn't used in the article, is it? Thepm (talk) 10:44, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, not as a ref sorry should have been clearer, it is an external link in General-interest articles on climate science and climate-change policy by Judith Curry mark nutley (talk) 10:48, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Well I can't see it there either, although I can see Climate Audit. In any case, my view remains that there is no need to itemise the various blogs.

By the way, are you ok to take the tag off now? Thepm (talk) 11:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Sure take the pov tag off, i`ll do an rfc about the blog thing, thanks mark nutley (talk) 11:15, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Get someone to check it for neutrality before you post it William M. Connolley (talk) 11:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Article additions

As may be obvious, I had an article almost ready to post also. Some seams still show, but it's certainly time Curry had an article. Pete Tillman (talk) 06:04, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

POV?

MN has tagged this but the discussion that should be on the talk page is missing. MN: please explain why you have tagged this (with the wrong tag too, but we don't expect miracles) William M. Connolley (talk) 09:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Curry's notability....

Curry's notability with the general public has arisen from her appearance in two MSM articles: the Revkin piece in the NYT in 11-09, and an interview in Discover magazine in 3-10. She has also made some more recent, provocative remarks at various climate-related sites online. While I understand the need for balance, it's a disservice to our readers to omit the main reason the general public would know who she is.

My own contribution to this, which vanished overnight, was:

Since the Climategate controversy developed in 2009, Curry has been critical of some of her colleagues in climate science, in particular of what she sees as their scientific "sloppiness" and ill-advised stonewalling on releasing data. She has been especially critical of the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change : "The corruptions of the IPCC process, and the question of corruption (or at least inappropriate torquing) of the actual science by the IPCC process, is the key issue,"

1. A Climate Scientist Who Engages Skeptics, profile by Andrew Revkin at the New York Times, November 27, 2009.
2. ^ Interview with Judith Curry at Discover (magazine), published online March 10, 2010.
3. Comment on the Oxburgh report by Judith Curry, April 16, 2010.

To answer one possible objection, "Climategate" is what Curry herself calls the controversy: she defines it more broadly than our Climatic Research Unit email controversy article, to include the IPCC controversy, which she calls "corruption". --Pete Tillman (talk) 18:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Um, because Misplaced Pages isn't about the news of the day. If she's notable, it's for her scientific work, not for this stuff. Guettarda (talk) 18:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Atmoz and I had a discussion nearly a year ago Talk:Effects of global warming#Judith Curry and came to the conclusion that Judith Curry past the WP:PROF test. Atmoz said he would start an article up again properly some time but hadn't got around to it. I agree this recent tittle tattle is not something that has suddenly made her notable and should only form a very minor part of this article. Polargeo (talk) 19:09, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

It is also a very notable moment in her life, and for her to be critical of the ipcc is very notable mark nutley (talk) 19:13, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Curry's notability with the general public - ah, can you see the mistake you're making? William M. Connolley (talk) 20:18, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

While I agree that Prof. Curry would be notable on the basis of her academic achievements, she has described herself as a "middle-size fish" in the climate-science pond. If she were "just" an average academic, there wouldn't be any controversy over (or any great interest in) her wiki-biography. However, she has chosen to enter the discussion of public policy related to climate change. Her statements and comments have attracted national interest. While we're not a newspaper, her actions are unquestionably (and permanently) WP:Notable.

We are a resource for the general reader, who (ideally) will find here an encyclopedic summary of the notable and significant parts of the subject's life and career. As Mark Nutley notes, this is something of a watershed moment in her career. Pete Tillman (talk) 20:28, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

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