Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Heironymous Rowe (talk | contribs) at 03:55, 1 July 2010 (→Comments by others about the appeal by Chuck Marean: Maybe a fresh start at a similar site would help?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Chuck Marean (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Please unblock me. I will try to get a mentor, and I won’t again ask for a false accuser to be banned. Instead, I will try to explain to the person why I think he’s wrong.--

Decline reason:

You are community banned. As such, no individual admin has the authority to overturn the block. I will initiate a discussion at the admins' noticeboard. Note that I am declining this purely on a procedural basis; I consider myself involved, as I commented at the AN ban proposal. –Juliancolton |  03:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Posted on behalf of the blocked editor as he is unable to edit this page. Nakon 03:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

File:'What links here' screen shot 2-28-08 for talk page.JPG listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:'What links here' screen shot 2-28-08 for talk page.JPG, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. IngerAlHaosului (talk) 14:39, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Question for Administrator

{{Adminhelp}} Please move this appeal to ANI for consideration. I understand why I was community banned and I’ll do constructive edits instead. My community ban was because I did some major edits without a consensus and sufficient preparation. For example, I reworded a Current Events blurb to say the victims of the Madoff investment fraud had not received a government bailout (when the references merely stated they had lost a lot of money). I’ve been thinking of ways to find consensus, such as working in my user space and getting my edits reviewed, looking at edit histories to try to find out who wrote what I want to edit, mentioning the edit idea on the article’s talk page, and putting forth more effort when reading sources and writing. I apologize for editing Current Events without knowing for certain I had a consensus. Rather than asking, I supposed everyone would agree with my edit. I believe it is uncivil to call people disruptive or vandals or uncivil or stupid or not neutral or bad editors, and so forth, although I can understand a writer being upset when someone else edits or corrects his writing. So, to improve my editing, I could ask if I have a consensus and I could read the policies I haven’t read and I could find and read a book on how to find sources and so forth. I think my community ban is no longer needed, as I’ve just explained. Chuck Marean 08:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I have copied your appeal to AN/I here. JohnCD (talk) 10:20, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Mentoring request

N Request denied, community ban not lifted (see below section). Swarm 04:43, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I’m seeking a mentor to help me learn to help Misplaced Pages better.

Pages I started include: 2008–10 California budget crisis, City of Film, Digital Sky Technologies, Want ad, Al-Yamamah Private University, Mini blind, Codex Washingtonianus, Misplaced Pages:List of infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox window covering, and Misplaced Pages:List of infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox window covering articles.

Other pages I’ve worked on include: Links and URLs, and Character formatting.

I made some good “In the news” nominations and additions to current events.

Other than that, I’ve made unnecessary edits. The reason for this is my first impression of Misplaced Pages was that it was a recreational editing site. My understanding was that articles were bought and then placed onweb for people to edit. I did not notice at first that Misplaced Pages was being used as a serious encyclopedia by various search engines.

I think I can edit much better than I have been. I could consider Misplaced Pages to be an encyclopedia rather than an editing site. I could limit my editing to writing well-researched material and minor edits.

I don’t want Misplaced Pages publishing negative opinions about me, so I would like to be un-banned. My community ban says it is subject to review and mentorship.Therefore, I’ve listed some of the better edits I’ve done, and I’m looking for mentoring. --Chuck Marean 19:19, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

This might help your case

It might help if you could show us that your understanding of the world has improved, as although you caused some problems with bad code, most of your problems were due to you not having the same viewpoint as a large majority of other editors.

• Can you explain now what Bernie Madoff had done to make the news. How would you write that news item now?

• Can you explain why changing the article title from Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom to Queen Elizabeth II of England is a bad idea; but it is a good idea that both titles are blue links?

• Finally, select a couple of topics where you'd like to make edits, and tell us what those edits would be.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:16, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

My viewpoint was based on the top of the main page saying, “that anyone can edit,” Misplaced Pages:Introduction saying, “go ahead, edit an article,” Misplaced Pages:Tutorial (Editing) saying, “’edit this page’, which lets you edit the page you are looking at. It is Misplaced Pages's most basic feature,” and the article called “Misplaced Pages” using the term “Nupedia.” The word Nupedia sounds more like a recreational editing site that the word Misplaced Pages does. However, since so many people consider Misplaced Pages to seriously be an encyclopedia, that is my new viewpoint. Also, I’ve read the article, Dunning–Kruger effect.

After re-reading the edit that lead to my ban (in Portal:Current events/2009 June 29), I see why my edit was misunderstood. It said, “gets him 150 years in prison rather than a bailout” when I meant his business didn’t get a bailout because it was before President Bush started bailing out the banks. My reference was something I heard on the radio, so I kept the references that were already there. What upset me was the name-calling I received. When the edit was referred to as “nonsense,” that was uncivil. In answer to your questions, I think he allowed his business to spend money it didn’t have, I would write the headline based on a source I could provide a link to, I would proofread it before clicking “save,” and in hindsight I should not have publish it at all, since there was already a headline on the topic.

On your next question, I really don’t remember requesting it be changed to “Queen Elizabeth II of England.” I was probably trying to start a discussion. I now realize some people disagree with using article talk pages for talk and discussion. For example, someone able to block people got mad about discussing the meaning of the word “ain’t.” So, I suppose the main thing I could use Misplaced Pages for is something to read. I just read the essay, Misplaced Pages:Competence is required which someone in the most recent un-ban discussion used to call me incompetent.

I think I’m capable of editing well. I never flunked a grade until college. I now consider Misplaced Pages to be an encyclopedia rather than a site for editing. Since the idea appears to be to write and contribute articles rather than to edit, I would need to find something to write about. I don’t have something to write an article about at this time. My current plans are to read Misplaced Pages’s manual of style, followed by its policy articles, before getting back to learning Wikitext. Chuck Marean 19:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm not sure this has helped your case any, and I believe you are likely to remain blocked. However, you should note that you do not need to be unblocked to read Misplaced Pages.Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:15, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Chuck Marean (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I’ll consider this an encyclopedia rather than an editing site, editing in the main space after asking others to read what I wrote. If I think investment fraud is not worth 150 years in jail, or that Congress should coin money to pay California a large franchise tax, I suppose blog sites are better suited for such expression. Redirects are ok, and editing ideas might be regarding Misplaced Pages:Introduction and Misplaced Pages:Tutorial still getting us interested in editing rather than doing research and writing articles. Please e-mail me when I am unbanned. Chuck Marean 03:48, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Decline reason:

I'm sorry if you feel citing this essay is a personal attack on you (as you indicated above) but competence is required and I don't think you understand even now what Misplaced Pages is and how it is supposed to work. If you wish to appeal this further I recommend you wait for at least six months from the time of the last community discussion on your ban, which was closed 2-21-10 and email the ban appeals subcommittee. Beeblebrox (talk) 04:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Community ban review

Hey Chuck. In case you haven't followed the discussion regarding your community ban at AN/I, I'm dropping by to let you know that unfortunately, there was a unanimous consensus against lifting your ban. You can see the archived discussion here. In light of this, I'm removing you from the adoption request backlog. Sorry it didn't turn out the way you hoped. --Swarm 04:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Request for Admin notice board discussion.

{{Adminhelp|Please end my community ban. I don’t believe I was incompetent. I believe I was
following the directions. They said to edit articles, which is what I was doing. While it may have been
too harsh for me to ask for a mean editor to be banned, banning me instead does not stop such
editors. You should address the problem of mean editors. The discussions calling me incompetent
were surprisingly unfriendly rather than constructive. I’m willing to edit better. Does
anyone have any suggestions on how to edit better? -- Chuck Marean 19:15, 26 June 2010 (UTC)}}

Non-admin comment I think the primary problem is that you have not taken responsibility for your actions in any way, shape or form. You made a bad edit to the In the news portal, and then when it was pointed out for what it is, you called vandalism. Even when many, many editors were shown to have problems with your edits, you were completely unapologetic and unwilling to consider you were wrong. Even this request shows some of the problems, as you are still focusing on others, and not addressing your problems. If one or two people have issues with your editing, then it might be a fluke, but there were no less than 11 editors in the Noticeboard thread telling you that you were the problem, and you refused to listen. In a collaborative environment like Misplaced Pages, that is completely unacceptable. Most of the people questioning your competence most likely have issues with that. Sodam Yat (talk) 21:55, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Another Non-admin comment-You were not banned because of a mean editor, you were community banned by the Community because the community at large was no longer willing to contend with your disruption and competency issues per discussion here. Heiro 22:48, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

No admin can "end" your community ban. If you want to draft a proposal on lifting your ban (since it has been a few months since your last request), I would be more than happy to copy it to WP:ANI for you to establish consensus, but that consensus will be required. No admin will lift this ban without consensus. Feel free to draft an unban proposal for posting up there. I strongly encourage that any proposal you write include verbiage regarding adoption mentoring and how you intend to correct your behavior from previous issues. --Shirik (Questions or Comments?) 00:48, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

"Adoption"

This user seeks adoption by an experienced editor. (Users offering adoption)

Please copy my appeal to WP:ANI.

Appeal by Chuck Marean

Appealing user

Chuck Marean (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Chuck Marean 00:06, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

llywrch has blocked Chuck Marean indefinitely, subject to review &/or a mentor stepping forward, imposed at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive197#User:Chuck Marean

Editor who imposed or found consensus to impose the sanction

Notification of that editor

The appealing editor is asked to notify the editor who imposed or found consensus to impose the sanction of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise.

Statement by Chuck Marean

I would like to be unblocked and unbanned and I’m willing to be mentored. I think I am capable of editing well. When I suggested the editor being mean to me be banned, I think I was over tired, causing my mind to be vandalized. Several of my peaceful news items had already been removed that week and then someone called my edit against the unconstitutional sentence someone received “nonsense.” Those who called my editing incompetent were exaggerating, in my opinion. Since encyclopedia sites are retrieving Misplaced Pages articles, I suppose considering Misplaced Pages to be an editing site is outdated, although the directions encourage editing. To improve my editing, I'll only edit articles when this would definitely improve them and when not over tired. To suggest edits on my talk page, I think I need to be un-banned and unblocked first.Chuck Marean 20:53, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Llywrch

Comments by others about the appeal by Chuck Marean

Editors considering mentoring Chuck should weigh this before making a decision. Heiro 02:38, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

For context, the original discussion is here.Heiro 03:16, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Per this edit it appears you still don't understand why you were banned. Bernie Madoffs sentence was not unconstitutional, he plead guilty in a court of law and was convicted. Anyone who is as detached from reality as to continually assert this is not compatible with this project. Heiro 20:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I meant I thought 150 years instead of months was wrong. In fact it sounds like someone hacked into the lawbook publisher. I agree I didn't need to say so. It was obvious. I had just heard it on the radio and I suppose I was overtired, as shown by the quality of my writing in that report. Sorry.Chuck Marean 21:11, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Chuck continues to use 'edit' (I thought Misplaced Pages was for editing etc) as if it were something different to creating content, so I'm still not convinced that he understands what went wrong, mainly because I don't understand what he means by 'edit'. Perhaps if we could clarify this? --Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I tentatively support a lifting of the ban if a topic ban on editing anything to do with Bernie Madoff, financial investments, and fraud is put in place instead. Fences&Windows 22:16, 29 June 2010 (UTC)Struck. Chuck's comment below shows he has no clue what Misplaced Pages is about, and he seems unable and unwilling to contribute according to our policies. He just wanted a site he could mess about on. Fences&Windows 21:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

One would also have to include Elizabeth II per this , , , the British Empire , the Portal:Current events, European Union , TANSTAAFL and any formatting. Heiro 23:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that lifting the ban would be a very bad idea. I watched Chuck's edits for years, and the failure to understand concepts that led to his block were the proverbial straw on the equally proverbial camel. From his comical attempt to rewrite the New Testament article in 2006 to his ridiculous overtemplating of the finance article, virtually all of his contributions were disastrous. Several editors tried mentoring Chuck over the years, with User:ZimZalaBim putting in a particularly valiant effort. To put it plainly, he refuses to learn or cannot learn how to edit constructively. - Eureka Lott 00:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Chuck, I removed my name from the section above where you labeled me the admin who determined consensus and implemented the ban. From what I can tell, I had nothing whatsoever to do with your ban. My only involvement came when you wrote to the unblock mailing list at the start of the year requesting the opportunity to appeal your ban. I assisted you and reset the block with the ability to edit your talk page restored so you could post your appeal here. According to the block log, Llywrch was the admin who implemented the ban. Sarah 00:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to point out the section above this request, where Chuck claims to have been blocked by "a mean editor", which indicates that he still doesn't grasp basic concepts. --Smashville 14:30, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I thought “edit” meant to improve the wording of something written. The Introduction and Tutorial said you don’t need to be perfect, which implied there was nothing wrong with humor such as pluralizing The Revelation. However, I suppose you’re serious, possibly because the articles are now retrieved by encyclopedia search engines as if authoritative articles. The “overtemplating” was because this was an editing site. I was just trying out the templates. So what? I suppose you’re answer would be “it’s not an editing site. It’s an encyclopedia students can afford.” Also, no one ever tried mentoring me. From the start Zimmer was criticizing me without explanation, as if inspired by the word Marine. If we’re not allowed to edit for recreational purposes, that should be pointed out in the introduction, tutorial, and main page – because there is nothing at all obvious about it. If this is a writing project rather than an editing site, that means doing library research and writing articles, which is not what the word, edit, means. If I were to consider this a writing project, if unblocked I wouldn’t be able to do much here. If I wrote an article, I could then ad it to the site with one or two edits but that’s about all there would be to my editing, unless I started patrolling recent changes, which is a very strange thing for an editing site. Maybe the phrase or clause (I don’t remember which it is) “anybody can edit” confused me. I suppose it’s difficult to overcome a first impression. Chuck Marean 19:48, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

How are you unable to grasp that this is an encyclopedia? --Smashville 21:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Chuck seems to think this is a site like Encyclopedia Dramatica, where you EDIT for shits and giggles. This is a serious endeavor, Chuck. We do research and write serious articles, as well as articles about humorous subjects, but it is not an edit whatever you feel like however you feel like site. Heiro 23:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I apologize in advance if you take this as a personal attack as I do not mean it as such, but at this point I have to again point to WP:COMPETENCE as my main problem here. With this last explanation, you have thoroughly convinced me that you either lack the competence to be here, or are simply trolling. I am assuming good faith here, and going with lacking competence. Note that this does not mean I think you are a bad person, or even incompetent outside of Misplaced Pages; on the contrary, again I assume good faith and feel like you are as you present yourself. That said, there are many problems with your work, and you are not getting it. By now, if you can't get it, then there is a major problem, and it is simpler to keep you banned than clean up your mistakes. Sodam Yat (talk) 00:05, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I think I’ve been getting it too much. Some of my editing wasn’t perfect, and most of it was good enough. If you look for the proof, it’s there. Also, the main page does not say “. . . that anybody can proofread.” It says edit. The Introduction says the edits don’t need to be perfect. The tutorial gets you enthusiastic about editing. Yet people come along and change what I wrote. Still, for the most part I was keeping cool and asking that others do the same. For example, I said “current events” and “in the news” shouldn’t just report things to complain about. They should contain a lot of normal and good news also. As I see it, a way to improve my competence would be for me to write new articles instead of rewording old articles. It seems the procedure for improving old articles is not covered in the tutorial, or even decided. Maybe I should have made more suggestions on talk pages. For example, that article on the queen of England. Instead of editing it, maybe it would have been alright to point out on the talk page that I don’t know what her titles mean and therefore I found the lead boring. On the other hand, some have said the talk page is only for those working on the article and, if that’s true, how is an article be improved without editing it? My Misplaced Pages competence is improved when I remember encyclopedia sites are retrieving Misplaced Pages articles. I was not aware of that at first. At first Misplaced Pages appeared to be an editing site. An evidence of this was the length of the article histories. Instead of under twenty edits, most had thousands of edits. I can be more competent. It only took me 6.5 years to get through 4 years of premed. That is one reason to believe people are more important than the project. We should not be freak out to correct mistakes. Thousands of edits per article proves most people think “anybody can edit” means “go ahead an edit.” Chuck Marean 03:37, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you could try HERE at Conservapedia. They have another encyclopedia project very similar to this one, but their rules are a little different. There seems to be so much baggage for you here, maybe try a fresh start on a new site? Heiro 03:55, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Chuck Marean

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• Wikipedians seeking to be adopted in Adopt-a-user