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old comments

Hi Fastfission. The pioneer fund is sometimes fallaciously (but well-intentionedly) reduced to a funder of race and intelligence research. My change to the intro was trying to take into account that the fund funds a wide range of research.--Nectarflowed 17:34, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

It looks to me like you replaced a line saying that they study race an intelligence to one about how they study the heredity of human differences, which is usually a euphemism for studying race and intelligence. --Fastfission 22:08, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree replacement with a euphemism would be a questionable change, but they do fund a variety of work that seems to warrant the broader description ("heredity and human differences" --the phrase they use). See, for example, the Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart, of which they were a partial funder. The fund's site gives a list of notable grantees and their work, broken down into the four categories that are funded: behavioral genetics, intelligence, social demography, and group differences (sex, social class, and race).--Nectarflowed 03:55, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Intelligence Citations Bibliography for Articles Related to IQ Testing

You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Intelligence Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human intelligence and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library at a university with an active research program in those issues (and to another library that is one of the ten largest public library systems in the United States) and have been researching these issues since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 14:50, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

New material

In the past few days some IP accounts, perhaps all the same person, have added a lot of new material. However it is all unsourced and much of it is tangential to the subject. If sources aren't added soon I'm inclined to revert the additions.   Will Beback  talk  23:13, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Do any of the editors here actually have the biographical sources about this person at hand? I have some Pioneer Fund material, but not any of the publications that are strictly about Draper's biography. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 23:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

There are only two significant biographical sources:

• Tucker, William H. (2002), The Funding of Scientific Racism: Wickliffe Draper and the Pioneer Fund, University of Illinois Press, ISBN 0252027620
• Kenny, Michael G. (2002), "Toward a Racial Abyss: Eugenics, Wickliffe Draper, and the Origins of The Pioneer Fund", Journal of History of the Behavioral Sciences 38: 259–283

The latter is available online and doesn't mention the added material. I don't have easy access to the Tucker book. Anyone else?   Will Beback  talk  02:03, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Now I have one of those sources downloaded, with your help. The other is checked out to someone else at the library I rely on most, but I could recall the book if it becomes necessary to check a lot of facts in the article. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 02:11, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

This added material is what needs to be verified. Are you interested in tracking down the sources in the near future? if not I'll go ahead and revert the changes until we do have a chance to verify it.   Will Beback  talk  04:31, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I have enough books taking over my office at the moment that I may wait for a while to recall the Draper biography. In other words, I'll trust your judgment here about what needs to be reverted. The statements didn't seem implausible to me, and Draper doesn't trigger the WP:BLP policy, so I just read them in my watchlist feed and moved on. But I won't object to anyone else reverting unsourced edits from I.P. editors here, as it is hard to know the provenance of the factual statements included in such edits. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 04:45, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

One book I have in my office already, Richard Lynn's book on the Pioneer Fund, includes a fair amount of information on Draper, so I have added it to the references here. I haven't changed any article text on this basis yet. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 15:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for adding that. I doubt it supports most of the recent additions though.   Will Beback  talk  15:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

It's gotten worse, so I'm reverting back to 22:57, August 4, 2010. Anyone is welcome to add material to the article, but it must be verifiable.   Will Beback  talk  01:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

As of last week I added referenced sources for all the new material about Thomas Ellis, Jesse Helms, Bonner Fellers, Foy Draper, Clarence Campbell, George Herbert Walker and Pres. George Bush. Why was this material removed? The info about Foy Draper in the 1936 Olympics was well documented. And both Hitler's and Draper's efforts at using the 1036 Olympics as their political showcase has been well documented before and recently. Even Robert Barrett who took part in the 1896 Olympics was a Eugenicist who started the Race Betterment Society with Dr. John Kellogg in 1906. They were Draper's mentors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DraperMan (talk • contribs) 20:02, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

This article is not about Foy Draper, Thomas Ellis, George Walker, or anyone besides Wycliffe Draper. Any source that doesn't mention him is not suitable. Neither are forums and Misplaced Pages mirrors like absoluteastronomy.com. We have an entire article on Eugenics for assertions that concern it rather than Draper.   Will Beback  talk  00:13, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

"Well documented" means correctly cited to a reliable source that is about the subject of the article. I've requested from a library the biography of Draper that it appears none of us have at hand, and I'll see what that says about his life. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 01:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

That'd great - thanks for checking it.   Will Beback  talk  01:36, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

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