Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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Click here to add a new enforcement request
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts

Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

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WeijiBaikeBianji

No action taken.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Request concerning WeijiBaikeBianji User requesting enforcement Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 10:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested WeijiBaikeBianji (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy that this user violated Misplaced Pages:ARBR&I#Advocacy, Misplaced Pages:ARBR&I#Correct_use_of_sources, Misplaced Pages:ARBR&I#Editors_reminded_and_discretionary_sanctions Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it WeijiBaikeBianji renames four articles in this topic area, replacing the direct connection to intelligence in the titles with an indirect one to IQ, without discussing this first. Less than an hour later, he suggests here that the Race and intelligence article be renamed to something similar "for parallelism with other subarticles of intelligence quotient" when the only reason this proposed name is parallel to the other articles is because he’d just unilaterally renamed them all. When I mention Fertility and intelligence (in this comment ) as one article that isn’t parallel to his proposed rename, he immediately renames that one also. WeijiBaikeBianji renames Race and genetics to "Genetics and the decline of race", again without any discussion. When this was subsequently discussed on the article talk page here, five editors (me, Muntuwandi, Victor Chmara, Moxy, and Dbachmann) agreed that the new title was inappropriate and/or non-neutral. Dbachmann, an administrator, referred to this move as "a rather crude example of pov-pushing by article title." Three examples of WeijiBaikeBianji selectively removing external links from BLP articles (the third diff is him reinstating his edit when it was reverted, without first attempting to resolve this on the discussion page). Some of the links that he removed may have not belonged there, but the problem with these edits is that they removed all of the links to articles and pages describing these researchers positively, keeping only those which were critical of them. This involved keeping the links to negative articles about these living people that were just as irrelevant as the positive ones he’d removed. In both cases, a neutral editor (Maunus) subsequently removed the critical links that WeijiBaikeBianji had kept or added, agreeing with me that they weren’t relevant either: Two examples of WeijiBaikeBianji removing links to other Misplaced Pages articles because they weren’t consistent with changes he was intending to make to those articles in the future. This isn’t advocacy, but it’s article ownership: other people’s edits to these articles should not be rejected only because they aren’t consistent with WeijiBaikeBianji’s plans. The first edit is an example of WeijiBaikeBianji removing content from an article based on what he apparently considers a misrepresentation of the one of its three sources, along with not being able to verify the other two sources. The wording that he replaced it with is non-neutral and puts the word "race" in scare quotes, even though this is not done in either the article title or any of the sources being cited. The second example is of him restoring content that someone else removed, which contained original research that was not supported by any of the sources being cited, and which also cited Misplaced Pages itself as a source. The issues with the material WeijiBaikeBianji reinstated were discussed here. I’m including these edits alongside one another because I think it’s important to compare WeijiBaikeBianji’s standards for material that supports his point of view with his standards for material that doesn't. If article content disagrees with his point of view, he’ll remove it based on very subtle sourcing issues or his inability to verify its sources, but if material supports his point of view, he’ll reinstate it when it’s removed by others even if it involves circular citations and obvious original research. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) None yet as far as I know, although multiple editors (including admins in some cases) have expressed concern about the neutrality of his edits on article talk pages. See the discussion about his rename of the Race and genetics article for an example. He's also previously reminded other editors that the articles are subject to discretionary sanctions (for example: ) so he’s obviously already aware of this. Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) I’m posting about this here because I think these things need attention via the discretionary sanctions, so it probably should be up to admins to decide what course of action is appropriate. Since WeijiBaikeBianji has not yet been formally warned about his behavior, I’m not convinced that a block or topic ban is necessary yet, and I’d consider it an acceptable result if admins were to decide that a warning and/or probation is enough. WeijiBaikeBianji probably has the potential to contribute to these articles productively if he could learn to be less aggressive about advocating his point of view, and not keep engaging in article ownership behavior. But since he doesn’t seem to be learning this on his own, I think admins need to do something to help him learn it. Additional comments by editor filing complaint I should point out that I’m currently topic banned from these articles, although not because of any misconduct on my part - it’s because of the close connection between my account and that of an editor who was topic banned as a result of the arbitration case. However, both the admin who topic banned me and one of the arbitrators have told me that even while I was topic banned, it would be acceptable for me to post about it here if I felt that there was editor behavior on these articles that needed attention via the discretionary sanctions. There are several other examples of behavior from WeijiBaikeBianji that I think demonstrate advocacy and article ownership, but I’ve only provided a sampling of the behavior from him that I think makes this clearest. Since what matters here is the general behavior rather than the specific examples, it’s important that this thread not get sidetracked by discussing individual content issues. When advocacy is the one of behavioral problems being discussed, it becomes necessary to provide examples of the editor in question inserting or reinstating non-neutral content, but the discussion still needs to be about the editor behavior rather than the content itself. Update 10/23: Ok, now that the admin who topic banned me has stated that his topic ban does not extend to preventing me from posting here, I hope we can discuss the merits of this thread itself. I was initially reluctant to contact the other people who’ve been involved in this dispute because I was afraid someone would claim doing this was canvassing, but now that WeijiBaikeBianji is complaining about the fact that I haven’t done so, I’ve gone ahead with it. Additionally, I should point out that while it was somewhat understandable for the admins who initially commented here to be unfamiliar with this situation and to not realize that my topic ban allowed for this thread, Weiji is familiar with me and with the situation. Since his comment points out that some of the discussion has been taking place in the user talk of these admins, which is where I was attempting to explain this to them, he’s obviously seen my explanation of being given permission to post this thread and there’s no way he could be unaware of this. It seems very disingenuous to me that he would be expressing blanket agreement with the uninformed opinion that this thread should be disregarded because I'm topic banned, despite knowing full well that my topic ban was not intended to prevent this. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning WeijiBaikeBianji Statement by WeijiBaikeBianji I thank Ferahgo the Assassin for her timely notification of this request for enforcement on my user talk page. I agree with uninvolved editors Looie496, Angus McLellan, and T. Canens in their analysis of and recommended disposition for this request. I note for the record that the request for enforcement was not accompanied by notice to any of the other involved editors, whether or not they were named or referred to without naming in the request. (I also note that some of the discussion of this request is occurring away from here, on the talk pages of some of the uninvolved editors who have responded.) I think all those uninvolved editors are Misplaced Pages community administrators and that they have said all that needs to be said about this request. On my part, I will go back to article content editing because I am here to build an encyclopedia and have plenty of volunteer work to do without being bogged down in pettifogging. Thank you to everyone for your time and effort in commenting here. Your comments are helpful to me for better understanding how to collaborate with other editors, whether new or experienced, in making sourced edits to article content on topics that continue to be controversial both on- and off-wiki. I have notified a few other editors who are familiar with the thread(s) named in the request for arbitration enforcement that this discussion is going on. One has already kindly told me by user talk page comment that he feels he hasn't observed enough of my editorial behavior to comment one way or the other. I am taking all comments here to heart. In all cases in which edits may be controversial or subject to more than one behavioral interpretation, we can all discuss with one another on the article talk pages (and my user talk page is always open for comments) how to understand one another. As before, all of you are especially welcome to recommend sources about human intelligence or about human biology for the shared source lists. Looking up sources is very enjoyable and a great way to improve Misplaced Pages articles. I'm happy to do source citation typing and verification so that all wikipedians can uphold core Misplaced Pages policies and build an encyclopedia together. Suggested disposition: dismiss request for enforcement Taking note of the statements of several arbiters in a request for clarification attached to another ArbCom case (raising issues closely related to this request for enforcement), I will not comment further here in the interest of getting back to work building an encyclopedia. The editors who participated in the article edits or talk pages mentioned in this request have still not been exhaustively notified by the editor who made the request. But the editors who have replied here or on user talk pages, and the uninvolved editors who have commented directly on this request, seem to be in agreement that there is no editor conduct issue on my part that needs any administrator intervention. I was glad to hear the point of view of several editors who have newly appeared on Misplaced Pages since the ArbCom case decision, and I pledge to work collaboratively with any editor to improve article text all over Misplaced Pages. I am always open to calmly discussing improvements in article text with other editors. I especially like looking up sources and verifying sources and checking that sources are not fudged and ensuring that Misplaced Pages article text is edited according to Misplaced Pages sourcing guidelines. My friendly suggestion to uninvolved administrators looking on here, bearing in mind that ArbCom has already decided discretionary sanctions related to this case, is to look at the edits, keep in mind the comments of experienced editors (both involved and uninvolved) who have looked at the request and the related threads, and dismiss the request so that we can all get back to work. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 14:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning WeijiBaikeBianji Were I uninvolved - I probably am, but better to err on the side of caution - I'd endorse Looie's comment. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC) I was told specifically by an arbitrator that doing this is not a problem if I believed someone's editing behavior needs attention via the discretionary sanctions. I was told this is only a problem if I file an excessive number of these, and this is my first (possibly only) one. Additionally, my topic ban specifically allows this, since I was told by the admin who topic banned me that this would be acceptable. When I appealed my topic ban to him in his user talk, saying that whatever decision he makes should address the problems with the editing environment that are unrelated to me, he told me "You are still free to request sanction of those other editors at arbitration enforcement; at least then one decision or another will be made." -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 22:24, 22 October 2010 (UTC) I would also like people who think I’m doing something wrong by posting about this here to read this exchange. Not only was I given permission to post here by the admin who topic banned me, but I was given permission specifically in response to requesting admin attention for the same behavior I’m reporting here, including most of the same examples/diffs. If I actually am doing something wrong by making this report, then there’s a serious problem here with contradictory messages from admins. Since I was given permission to post here about this exact thing, I don't see how anyone could have expected me to predict that posting about it would be regarded as abusing that permission. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 00:19, 23 October 2010 (UTC) I've only done minimal editing in this area, but I could not help notice that unilateral moves to a POV title like that performed by WeijiBaikeBianji "Genetics and the decline of race" (a month ago, and soon reverted) cannot be constructive. Mind you, I also disagree with the naming (and scope) of Lewontin's Fallacy; POV titles aren't helpful either way. Tijfo098 (talk) 23:39, 23 October 2010 (UTC) WeijiBaikeBianji also supported the use of an extreme source, Steven Rose, in the lead of Heritability of IQ, . Rose commits errors of omission, for instance failing to say that heritability may or may not depend on the environment; for some genes it does but for some it doesn't. His paper has only 3 citations, so it's hardly the mainstream view, but nevertheless WeijiBaikeBianji supports citing in verbatim in the lead of an article. (Based on his biased premises, which are cited in the Misplaced Pages article, Rose concludes in his paper that heritability is a useless measure for any purpose. The only English source that found worthwhile to cite Rose's paper so far, only used it to support this sentence: "Heritability calculations are often indirect and involve simplified models of genetic versus non-genetic contributors ". By the way, a 2009 Nature paper that is obviously at odds with Rose's conclusions somehow garnered 272 citations already. I wonder why...) Tijfo098 (talk) 00:21, 24 October 2010 (UTC) I don't think it can convincingly be shown by reliable sources that Steven Rose is more extreme or makes more errors than other of the scholars used to defend the high heritability estimates such as Rushton, Jensen and Lynn. In fact I think the inclusion of Rose as a source would be a good move towards bringing some balance into the use of sources in those articles.·Maunus·ƛ· 16:44, 24 October 2010 (UTC) I'm new to wiki as a whole, but I read the article concerning race and intelligence and found that one edited passages concerning Richard Lynn. The edit debated Lynn's work with sources that never directly mentioned Lynn. and the discussion on the talk: I reverted the passage back to the way it was beforehand, but WeijiBaikeBianji reverted back to the synthesized, not properly sourced edit. He stated that it was okay, but he didn't even address that it wasn't synthesis of sources that never mentioned Lynn. By reading more into it, the only reason I could see for this is if WeijiBaikeBianji felt this synthesized paragraph supported his own beliefs. I can't be sure of anything, it just doesn't add up for me to see why someone wouldn't acknowledge the clearly sloppy style of the passage I mentioned.-SightWatcher (talk) 02:25, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Comments by Mathsci From what has been said by the three administrators that have commented above and below (Looie, Angus McLellan, and Timotheus Canens), the evidence presented does not show any need for enforcement (no edit warring, personal attacks, etc). NuclearWarfare (talk · contribs · former admin: blocks · protections · deletions · rights · meta · local rights) is currently (temporarily and voluntarily since Oct 12 ) not an administrator so strictly speaking should probably have placed his comment outside the "uninvolved administrators" section below. His topic ban on Ferahgo the Assassin still stands, but he is temporarily not an administrator. Ferhago the Assassin's most recent edits at the moment do not seem to be compatible with her topic ban. After getting the statements by the three uninvolved admimistrators—apparently not to her satisfaction—she canvassed a hand-picked set of editors of the articles from which she is topic-banned concerning this enforcement request. Presumably Ferahgo the Assassin was aided in the selection by Captain Occam. Far from staying away from this topic, the pair of them have sought out loopholes and possible inconsistencies between statements of administrators in order to continue the WP:BATTLE that Captain Occam was fighting "tooth and nail" (to quote Shell Kinney) against his perceived opponents at the close of arbitration. This has been been going on for over two months. The topic ban of Ferahgo the Assasin was imposed on October 10th, when she made her request to submit here. She waited two weeks to submit. At that time two of the users she canvassed had not even made their first edits on wikipedia, one appearing on October 12th and the other on October 17th ; a third is still the subject of a sock puppet investigation. Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin must be completely aware that this type of canvassing is disruptive—it looks like an attempt to "fix the jury"—and is a serious violation of their joint topic ban (per WP:SHARE), no matter what new excuses they present to justify themselves. Enough is enough: at this juncture one or both of them should now be subject to WP:ARBR&I#Enforcement. Mathsci (talk) 06:58, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Additional comments by Mathsci Ferahgo the Assassin seems to have misunderstood what is entailed in topic bans, both for herself and others, She has been discussing directly in great detail the content of articles related to Race and intelligence, how they have been edited and who edits them. Common sense should have told her that that is exactly what her topic ban is to prevent her doing. Per WP:SHARE, the presumption now is also that these matters and indeed her general strategy here were decided jointly with Captain Occam, and that she is also speaking on his behalf. To suggest otherwise, after statements to this effect by multiple arbitrators, is unrealistic. My topic ban applies only to articles and their talk pages, not to wikipedia processes. I do not discuss at all the content of articles, nor by whom or how they are edited. Ferahgo the Assassin on the other hand has been doing just that and in addition devoting her energies to lobbying multiple administrators. She has yet again suggested that the reason for this request—her wish for the subject of this request to be topic-banned—is to correct the "imbalance" resulting from the topic bans on editors like her and Captain Occam. So far every administrator approached by Ferahgo the Assassin has told her that this request was misjudged. The best advice that can be given now is simply to withdraw the request, as she may, without prejudice. Mathsci (talk) 06:04, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Mathsci, you are currently topic banned from race & intelligence issues and since this thread has nothing to do with you, you should not be posting here. I asked for and was granted permission to post this thread from both the admin who topic banned me and one of the arbitrators. As was pointed out by T. Canens and Angus McLellan, my discussing this here would be a violation of my topic ban if I had not been given this permission. Because you have been granted no such permission, your posting here primarily to voice accusations against me is both a violation of your topic ban and a clear disregard for NW's request that editors here comment on the content of the thread, not on the legitimacy of its posting. As I stated above, I contacted the group of users who I did specifically in response to WeijiBaikeBianji’s complaint that I had not contacted any of the other users involved in the disputes I was posting about. If WBB had not expressed a preference that I do this, I would not have done so, and what I did was contact every user who was involved in these disputes - nothing more, and nothing less. Other than WeijiBaikeBianji himself, Victor Chmara was the main person involved in the dispute over WBB’s undiscussed renames in the first two examples I provided, Maunus was the main other person involved in the dispute over WBB’s selective removal of links from BLP articles in my third example, the fourth example involved one dispute between WBB and Woodsrock and another between him and Miradre, and the fifth involved one dispute between him and me and another between him and Sightwatcher. Those are the five people who I contacted. There are a lot of users I could have contacted who were only marginally involved in these disputes but who still would have most likely agreed with me, such as Dbachmann (who accused WBB of POV-pushing in response to his undiscussed rename of the Race and genetics article) and TrevelyanL85A2 (who agreed with SightWatcher that the material WBB reinstated in my fifth example was original research). But because both of them were not the main players in these disputes, I assumed that WeijiBaikeBianji’s preference that I contact the other involved editors did not extend to them also. The group of editors who I contacted is, as far as I know, exactly the group of editors whom WBB had a desire for me to contact. Really, your near-constant assumption of bad faith - even about the specific effort I was making to comply with WBB’s wishes regarding this request - is a pretty good example of the behavior for which you were topic banned. I notice you’re also misrepresenting the opinions of the admins who’ve commented thus far. Contrary to your claim that they think that "the evidence presented does not show any need for enforcement", none of them have yet expressed an opinion at all about whether the evidence I’ve presented is actionable under the discretionary sanctions. The only thing they’ve commented on is whether I’m within my rights by posting this thread. But now that NW has pointed out that my topic ban allows me to post here, presumably they’ll at this point they’ll be making a decision about whether it’s worth taking action about the content of this thread, including the fact that you’ve gotten involved in it. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 11:20, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Comment by Muntuwandi My understanding is that Arbitration proceedings are the last stop in dispute resolution. Arbitration requests are accepted when the other available forums for dispute resolution such as talk pages, user talk pages and noticeboards, have been exhausted. Looking at the evidence presented by Ferahgo, I see little evidence that normal discussions on talk pages have failed to resolve some of the concerns about a few of Weiji's edits. In fact many of the edits cited by Ferahgo are becoming stale. For example, according to the revision history of the Richard Lynn article, Weiji's last edit was on the 1st of October, more than three weeks ago. Talk:Richard Lynn has also been stale since about the same time. Ferahgo's evidence relies heavily on content issues, but I see very little evidence of specific conduct issues, such as violating the 3RR, engaging in low grade edit warring or disruptively editing against consensus. I haven't agreed with all of Weiji's edits, for example I didn't agree with moving the race and genetics article, but Weiji did explain his rationale stating that there is a Britannica article The decline of “race” in science. To summarize, I believe that Ferahgo the Assassin and or Captain Occam are once again trying to circumvent their topic ban by exploiting a loophole. Since filing topic ban requests is strictly speaking not within the scope of their topic ban, it would appear that they are using this request as a means of continuing their content battles. Weiji's is a relative newcomer to Misplaced Pages. Concerns about Weiji's edits should first be addressed on talk pages and only if these discussions fail, should these concerns be escalated to other places. At present their is little evidence that normal discussions have failed to resolve these issues. The real problem here is Captain Occam and his continued gamesmanship. At some stage a software restriction may be necessary to put an end to this endless drama Wapondaponda (talk) 10:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Additional comments by Muntuwandi I think there is too much wikilawyering. Captain Occam and Ferahgo are topic banned from race and intelligence matters broadly construed. Since they are subject to Arbcom remedies, it is reasonable and expected that they can file Arbcom requests, especially if an arbcom request concerns their remedies. Topic bans are enforced by the community, and what constitutes a topic is a subjective decision. The boundaries of a topic are also subjective. However the topic bans are broadly construed to prevent gaming. It is the spirit of the topic ban, not the "letter of the law" that is important. In this case, Ferahgo and or Captain Occam have filed a request that does not have much in terms of specific conduct or procedural problems, but instead is filled with content jargon. In general it is appropriate for Occam and Ferahgo to file Arbcom requests, but it is inappropriate for Occam and Ferahgo to use this privilege as a means to get around their topic ban. I am concerned about Captain Occam/Ferahgo's pattern of canvassing, particularly because this strategy seems to work. It may be psychological, but whenever an editor asks another editor to comment on a matter, the comments tend to be favorable. Some editors avoid this tendency, which is commendable, but many don't. These are Captain Occam's user talk page contributions Ferahgo's user talk page contributions There is a lot of canvassing going on, including trying to canvass Jimbo Wales. All but two of Ferahgo's user contributions are related to race and intelligence matters. Wapondaponda (talk) 20:42, 25 October 2010 (UTC) This is arbitration enforcement, not a request for arbitration. Look at the other requests on this page - when discretionary sanctions have been authorized on an article by an existing arbcom ruling, this is the place to bring editor behavior to admin attention when one thinks that’s needed. I have also been told by both several admins and one of the arbitrators that if there was editor behavior on these articles which needed admin attention, this was where I should bring it up. Are you ever going to do more on these articles than try to drive away the editors who disagree with you? Since the end of the arbcom case, this has been the near-exclusive purpose of your participation here. You’re not even being subtle about it, with your explicit advocacy of software restrictions. I had hoped that you'd drop this attitude when you finally managed to get me topic banned, after more than a month of your involvement here being exclusively focused on me, but nope - during the two weeks after my topic ban, all but one of your contributions in this topic area have been devoted to getting rid of Miradre next. In the past two months, you’ve only made one content edit on any of these articles that wasn’t a revert, and that was directly in response to Maunus pressuring you about it. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 11:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC) The Britannica article (on race; there's no article with the title you claim, that's just a section in the race article) is written by anthropologist Audrey Smedley who adopts a Lewontian POV; Smedley cites Lewontin, but no other geneticists. See Lewontin's Fallacy for what other equally distinguished geneticists think. Smedley completely ignores, either willingly or by shear ignorance, any post-2000 developments in genetics. Articles like that is why Britannica is hopeless. Tijfo098 (talk) 12:05, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Noah Rosenberg's Genetic structure of human populations (Science, 2002) has over 1000 citations today. Rosenberg's paper was the proximate trigger of A.W.F. Edwards' position paper titled Lewontin's Fallacy. Something from Watson comes to my mind about "has-beens" writing the Britannica articles. Tijfo098 (talk) 12:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Even though I agree, let's not focus too much on content here. The relevant issue is whether these behaviors from Weiji are a problem from a conduct perspective. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 12:41, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Comments by Maunus I do think that WeijiBaikeBianji has had some moments of bad judgment - but generally he is one of the editors that are willing to listen to all other editors and consider statements backed by sources. I don't think that this petition should be considered, especially not since the editor making it is not directly affected by WeijiBaikeBianji's behaviour as she currently is not allowed to edit in the area. If editors that actually are interacting with WeijiBaikeBianji agree with Ferahgo's judgement then they can and should start an RfC or arbitrartion enforcement case. Ferahgo doesn't need to act as protector of other editors' interests in the area that she is no longer editing - I am sure everyone there is capable of taking steps to resolve their own disputes with out help from previous participants.·Maunus·ƛ· 15:21, 24 October 2010 (UTC) As an editor who’s been involved in these articles recently, I agree that some of WeijiBaikeBianji’s behavior seems problematic and I would like it to receive some attention from admins. I might have tried to get admin attention for it myself, but I know little about how to deal with such matters, and didn't want to cause a fuss. I would have remained silent on it, but seeing as others who have been here longer are voicing opinions against him I thought I'd toss in my two cent. Since this thread is about an issue I would have wanted to bring up if I’d known how to, I don’t think admins should discount it just because of who it was posted by. -SightWatcher (talk) 23:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC) since my name has been mentioned, and since WBB asked my to comment, I will say this: I agree with Maunus' assessment of the situation. I certainly do not always agree with WBB, and sometimes their judgement may be off. But there is no doubt that this is a good faith editor who is trying to collaborate with other Wikipedians. There is no need for this bureaucratic attempt to clamp down on WBB. If WBB should be out of line at some point, it will be more than enough to get an admin to issue a warning or a short block, and I have no doubt that the user will be mature and considerate enough to react to such measures. This page here, otoh, is just an attempt to resolve content disputes by wikilawyering. --dab (𒁳) 07:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC) A warning for WBB is all that I’m looking for here. I already stated in my initial report that I don’t think a topic ban is necessary, because I think he’s capable of contributing to these articles constructively if admins could point him in the right direction about it. It’s unfortunate that so many people here are reacting to this thread as though I were devoted to getting WBB topic banned, when I’ve already stated that isn’t my intention. If this thread could be closed with a warning for WBB and nothing else, I would be satisfied that it’s accomplished its purpose. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 08:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC) I think he has received enough feedback here already. I'm not sure what a formal warning would achieve. I've certainly seen more strong-headed editors who aren't sanctioned in any way. Tijfo098 (talk) 09:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC) I have to say after having told Ferhago that necessary reports were permitted, this is disappointing. This request focuses on content rather than any behavioral issues, which is clearly inappropriate both as a request and for someone who's topic banned. Additionally, canvassing isn't an appropriate way to handle these reports, and canvassing brand new accounts is remarkably suspicious. I hope that Ferhago takes everyone's advice here and stops watching the topic area. Shell 19:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC) P.S. I also found it interesting that Ferhago repeatedly asserts her right to make this report, but took other topic banned editors to task for pointing out the deficiencies. Shell 19:51, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Shell, I appreciate your input, but I have addressed all of these points already. The discretionary sanctions on these articles are intended to enforce NPOV policy, and when an editor is failing to observe this policy, it's necessary to provide examples of them doing so with diffs. When I asked permission to post this thread, these were the same concerns that I was referring to then. NW granted me permission to post an AE thread here in response to my explanation of this, which included a link to where Captain Occam described this behavior in the amendment thread, including most of the same examples and diffs covered my report. I also explained that my contacting other involved editors was in response to Weiji wanting that. I contacted all of the other editors who had been involved in these disputes, and no one else - I'm not sure what I should have done differently. This seems like a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation. When I had contacted none of the other editors involved in these disputes, WeijiBaikeBianji complained that I had not contacted them, but in doing just that I get accused of canvassing. Lastly, I think that Mathsci's comment here is inappropriate for two obvious reasons. First, I asked permission to post here and was granted it; he did no such thing. I would consider it just as inappropriate if Occam had posted here in my defense. Second, Mathsci's comments here demonstrate the same behavior his topic ban is intended to prevent, which is his incivility and battleground attitude. NW has agreed that Mathsci's posting here is a problem. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 21:13, 25 October 2010 (UTC) I'm afraid you've grossly misunderstood the Arbitration ruling; it was a matter of conduct, not content. I'm concerned that once again you indicate that this was based on information from Captain Occam - each time this happens, it looks more and more as if meatpuppetry is going to be a problem here. If you'll re-read my comment where I indicated that, as far as I know, editors aren't prohibited from making reports while topic banned, I also strongly suggested that you stop monitoring the topic area and work productively elsewhere. It's disappointing that you only heeded part of my comment. About Mathsci, I find it hard to believe that you think the advice you were given by myself and NuclearWarfare somehow only applies to you. He made some very good points about your participation here - if you find that incivil and a "battleground attitude", I'd have to suggest again that you need to spend some time understanding how really Misplaced Pages works rather than continuing with the rather skewed interpretation you've learned from Captain Occam. Shell 23:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Various comments by Xxanthippe. Sigh. I had hoped that this matter was over and done with. I have to agree that WeijiBaikeBianji has shown himself to be a biased and tendentious editor of the topic. I note that MathSci is also topic banned so I am surprised to find him editing here. Xxanthippe (talk) 21:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC). Comments by Vecrumba Yes, there was some ruffling of feathers on some renaming, those have in the end already all been dealt with in good faith. There is no editor at the R&I and related articles who does not have an editorial POV informed by sources—as opposed to vapor-based personal opinion. I believe everyone is trying to put the recent conflict firmly in the past. The seemingly incessant stirring of the pot in the aftermath of the R&I arbitration has served only to breed new perceptions of bad faith. Really, either someone's editorial opinion is based on a fair and accurate representation of reputable sources, or not. The sooner we all get back to editing the sooner we'll be on the road again to improving content. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 15:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Result concerning WeijiBaikeBianji This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. I propose that this request be dismissed and the requesting party be prohibited from filing enforcement requests in this area. An editor who is topic-banned should not be filing enforcement requests unless there are clear and obvious violations, which is not the case here. Looie496 (talk) 19:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC) When you are topic banned, you are banned from the topic, that is, you are banned from making any edit that has anything to do with the topic. This request has a lot to do with the topic. Therefore, it is within the scope of your topic ban. And, no, this is not "necessary and legitimate dispute resolution", because this request has nothing to do with your topic ban. Really, when you are banned, you should disengage and find something else to work with. T. Canens (talk) 03:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC) I would disagree with the rest of you, at least in the theoretical sense. Nothing in my topic ban was meant to stop Ferahgo from filing a topic ban request. Now, I don't think that it would be wise for her to do this, and in fact think that she should abandon the topic area altogether. But I think this request should be evaluated on its own merits and the idea of preventing her from filing AE reports should only be discussed if this becomes a persistent problem. NW (Talk) 19:58, 23 October 2010 (UTC) This is an odd sort of request. The way I see it, Ferahgo the Assassin is unhappy with the edits that WeijiBaikeBianji has been making in the various Race and intelligence related articles but, since Ferahgo the Assassin is topic banned from this area he/she cannot directly challenge these edits on the talk pages of those articles. However, the purpose of a topic ban is to ensure that the editor has no influence on the content of the article for the duration of the ban and it is a violation of that ban to attempt to influence the content of these articles in any way. Since each and every charge above is content related, it is both improper as well as a violation for Ferahgo the Assassin to raise the issue here. I propose that this request be dismissed; Ferahgo the Assassin be warned that a topic ban, broadly construed, means that he or she should focus on content in unrelated articles, returning to this set of articles only when the topic ban is formally ended; and be formally advised that continued attempts to influence content in these articles will lead to him/her being blocked. --RegentsPark (talk) 02:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC) This request does not reflect well on Ferahgo. Although Weiji's edits may raise some eyebrows, they do not rise to the level of an enforcement action here. Meanwhile Ferahgo is testing the edges of her topic ban. This is not a matter of 'necessary and legitimate dispute resolution.' She should wait till the ban expires until she resumes her efforts to influence article content in this topic area. If she wants an open-ended permission to file enforcement requests that do not concern her directly, she should open a request for clarification with Arbcom. The recent comments by individual arbitrators about WP:ARBCC suggest they now take a dim view of this kind of thing. Unless she files such a clarification, I agree with RegentsPark that the closer of this AE should formally advise Ferahgo that additional filings by her on admin noticeboards may lead to a block. EdJohnston (talk) 18:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC) The filing party was specifically permitted by Nuclear Warfare, the administrator who initially topic-banned him, to submit this request for arbitration, so I am confused as to why there are overly-harsh calls for him to be reminded or prohibited from filing AE requests relating to the subject area he is banned from. I would disagree very strongly with attempts to sanction or formally remind the filing party on the basis that he was (misguidedly or not) told it was permissible to submit this enforcement request. In my experience, requests for enforcement submitted by a not-uninvolved filing party are often derailed by conversation about whether the filing party ought to be sanctioned for submitting the AE complaint. It would be wrong to allow this thread to take that course, and we should now re-examine the merits of the actual complaint. If the filing party had done something that would warrant him being sanctioned, then a separate thread should be devoted to that issue; in my opinion, he has not, and so that would be unnecessary. But informal, off-the-record guidance on whether he should in future be filing AE requests relating to this particular topic area might be warranted; and that should be held on the filing party's talk page—not here. Respectfully, AGK 18:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC) I agree that we can't sanction the user simply for the act of filing this request, given NW's explicit permission. I do, however, have serious reservations about whether the exception is a good idea in the first place, and I think it may be a good idea to remove that exception. T. Canens (talk) 22:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Let me add a pointer here to WP:RFAR#Request for clarification: WP:ARBR&I. Looie496 (talk) 21:15, 25 October 2010 (UTC) In the Request for clarification that is linked above by Looie496, the responding arbs seem to be saying that topic banned editors may usually be allowed to file at AE, but depending on what they file, they might eventually be blocked for disruption. The definition of disruption is at the discretion of admins. If this is Ferahgo's first filing at AE, it is probable too soon to classify her posts as disruptive. I suggest that this enforcement request be closed with no action against either Ferahgo or WeijiBaikeBianji. If anyone would prefer that the close contain a warning to Ferahgo, please propose some language that could be used. If there are no objections, I'll close in a few hours. EdJohnston (talk) 21:07, 27 October 2010 (UTC) After reading the comments at the request for clarification, I concur with this. --RegentsPark (talk) 21:58, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

No action taken.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning WeijiBaikeBianji

User requesting enforcement: Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 10:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: WeijiBaikeBianji (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Misplaced Pages:ARBR&I#Advocacy, Misplaced Pages:ARBR&I#Correct_use_of_sources, Misplaced Pages:ARBR&I#Editors_reminded_and_discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

WeijiBaikeBianji renames four articles in this topic area, replacing the direct connection to intelligence in the titles with an indirect one to IQ, without discussing this first. Less than an hour later, he suggests here that the Race and intelligence article be renamed to something similar "for parallelism with other subarticles of intelligence quotient" when the only reason this proposed name is parallel to the other articles is because he’d just unilaterally renamed them all. When I mention Fertility and intelligence (in this comment ) as one article that isn’t parallel to his proposed rename, he immediately renames that one also.
WeijiBaikeBianji renames Race and genetics to "Genetics and the decline of race", again without any discussion. When this was subsequently discussed on the article talk page here, five editors (me, Muntuwandi, Victor Chmara, Moxy, and Dbachmann) agreed that the new title was inappropriate and/or non-neutral. Dbachmann, an administrator, referred to this move as "a rather crude example of pov-pushing by article title."
Three examples of WeijiBaikeBianji selectively removing external links from BLP articles (the third diff is him reinstating his edit when it was reverted, without first attempting to resolve this on the discussion page). Some of the links that he removed may have not belonged there, but the problem with these edits is that they removed all of the links to articles and pages describing these researchers positively, keeping only those which were critical of them. This involved keeping the links to negative articles about these living people that were just as irrelevant as the positive ones he’d removed. In both cases, a neutral editor (Maunus) subsequently removed the critical links that WeijiBaikeBianji had kept or added, agreeing with me that they weren’t relevant either:
Two examples of WeijiBaikeBianji removing links to other Misplaced Pages articles because they weren’t consistent with changes he was intending to make to those articles in the future. This isn’t advocacy, but it’s article ownership: other people’s edits to these articles should not be rejected only because they aren’t consistent with WeijiBaikeBianji’s plans.
The first edit is an example of WeijiBaikeBianji removing content from an article based on what he apparently considers a misrepresentation of the one of its three sources, along with not being able to verify the other two sources. The wording that he replaced it with is non-neutral and puts the word "race" in scare quotes, even though this is not done in either the article title or any of the sources being cited. The second example is of him restoring content that someone else removed, which contained original research that was not supported by any of the sources being cited, and which also cited Misplaced Pages itself as a source. The issues with the material WeijiBaikeBianji reinstated were discussed here. I’m including these edits alongside one another because I think it’s important to compare WeijiBaikeBianji’s standards for material that supports his point of view with his standards for material that doesn't. If article content disagrees with his point of view, he’ll remove it based on very subtle sourcing issues or his inability to verify its sources, but if material supports his point of view, he’ll reinstate it when it’s removed by others even if it involves circular citations and obvious original research.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): None yet as far as I know, although multiple editors (including admins in some cases) have expressed concern about the neutrality of his edits on article talk pages. See the discussion about his rename of the Race and genetics article for an example. He's also previously reminded other editors that the articles are subject to discretionary sanctions (for example: ) so he’s obviously already aware of this.
Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): I’m posting about this here because I think these things need attention via the discretionary sanctions, so it probably should be up to admins to decide what course of action is appropriate. Since WeijiBaikeBianji has not yet been formally warned about his behavior, I’m not convinced that a block or topic ban is necessary yet, and I’d consider it an acceptable result if admins were to decide that a warning and/or probation is enough. WeijiBaikeBianji probably has the potential to contribute to these articles productively if he could learn to be less aggressive about advocating his point of view, and not keep engaging in article ownership behavior. But since he doesn’t seem to be learning this on his own, I think admins need to do something to help him learn it.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I should point out that I’m currently topic banned from these articles, although not because of any misconduct on my part - it’s because of the close connection between my account and that of an editor who was topic banned as a result of the arbitration case. However, both the admin who topic banned me and one of the arbitrators have told me that even while I was topic banned, it would be acceptable for me to post about it here if I felt that there was editor behavior on these articles that needed attention via the discretionary sanctions. There are several other examples of behavior from WeijiBaikeBianji that I think demonstrate advocacy and article ownership, but I’ve only provided a sampling of the behavior from him that I think makes this clearest. Since what matters here is the general behavior rather than the specific examples, it’s important that this thread not get sidetracked by discussing individual content issues. When advocacy is the one of behavioral problems being discussed, it becomes necessary to provide examples of the editor in question inserting or reinstating non-neutral content, but the discussion still needs to be about the editor behavior rather than the content itself.

Update 10/23:

Ok, now that the admin who topic banned me has stated that his topic ban does not extend to preventing me from posting here, I hope we can discuss the merits of this thread itself. I was initially reluctant to contact the other people who’ve been involved in this dispute because I was afraid someone would claim doing this was canvassing, but now that WeijiBaikeBianji is complaining about the fact that I haven’t done so, I’ve gone ahead with it.

Additionally, I should point out that while it was somewhat understandable for the admins who initially commented here to be unfamiliar with this situation and to not realize that my topic ban allowed for this thread, Weiji is familiar with me and with the situation. Since his comment points out that some of the discussion has been taking place in the user talk of these admins, which is where I was attempting to explain this to them, he’s obviously seen my explanation of being given permission to post this thread and there’s no way he could be unaware of this. It seems very disingenuous to me that he would be expressing blanket agreement with the uninformed opinion that this thread should be disregarded because I'm topic banned, despite knowing full well that my topic ban was not intended to prevent this.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning WeijiBaikeBianji

Statement by WeijiBaikeBianji

I thank Ferahgo the Assassin for her timely notification of this request for enforcement on my user talk page. I agree with uninvolved editors Looie496, Angus McLellan, and T. Canens in their analysis of and recommended disposition for this request. I note for the record that the request for enforcement was not accompanied by notice to any of the other involved editors, whether or not they were named or referred to without naming in the request. (I also note that some of the discussion of this request is occurring away from here, on the talk pages of some of the uninvolved editors who have responded.) I think all those uninvolved editors are Misplaced Pages community administrators and that they have said all that needs to be said about this request. On my part, I will go back to article content editing because I am here to build an encyclopedia and have plenty of volunteer work to do without being bogged down in pettifogging.

Thank you to everyone for your time and effort in commenting here. Your comments are helpful to me for better understanding how to collaborate with other editors, whether new or experienced, in making sourced edits to article content on topics that continue to be controversial both on- and off-wiki. I have notified a few other editors who are familiar with the thread(s) named in the request for arbitration enforcement that this discussion is going on. One has already kindly told me by user talk page comment that he feels he hasn't observed enough of my editorial behavior to comment one way or the other. I am taking all comments here to heart. In all cases in which edits may be controversial or subject to more than one behavioral interpretation, we can all discuss with one another on the article talk pages (and my user talk page is always open for comments) how to understand one another. As before, all of you are especially welcome to recommend sources about human intelligence or about human biology for the shared source lists. Looking up sources is very enjoyable and a great way to improve Misplaced Pages articles. I'm happy to do source citation typing and verification so that all wikipedians can uphold core Misplaced Pages policies and build an encyclopedia together.

Suggested disposition: dismiss request for enforcement Taking note of the statements of several arbiters in a request for clarification attached to another ArbCom case (raising issues closely related to this request for enforcement), I will not comment further here in the interest of getting back to work building an encyclopedia. The editors who participated in the article edits or talk pages mentioned in this request have still not been exhaustively notified by the editor who made the request. But the editors who have replied here or on user talk pages, and the uninvolved editors who have commented directly on this request, seem to be in agreement that there is no editor conduct issue on my part that needs any administrator intervention. I was glad to hear the point of view of several editors who have newly appeared on Misplaced Pages since the ArbCom case decision, and I pledge to work collaboratively with any editor to improve article text all over Misplaced Pages. I am always open to calmly discussing improvements in article text with other editors. I especially like looking up sources and verifying sources and checking that sources are not fudged and ensuring that Misplaced Pages article text is edited according to Misplaced Pages sourcing guidelines. My friendly suggestion to uninvolved administrators looking on here, bearing in mind that ArbCom has already decided discretionary sanctions related to this case, is to look at the edits, keep in mind the comments of experienced editors (both involved and uninvolved) who have looked at the request and the related threads, and dismiss the request so that we can all get back to work. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 14:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning WeijiBaikeBianji

Were I uninvolved - I probably am, but better to err on the side of caution - I'd endorse Looie's comment. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I was told specifically by an arbitrator that doing this is not a problem if I believed someone's editing behavior needs attention via the discretionary sanctions. I was told this is only a problem if I file an excessive number of these, and this is my first (possibly only) one. Additionally, my topic ban specifically allows this, since I was told by the admin who topic banned me that this would be acceptable. When I appealed my topic ban to him in his user talk, saying that whatever decision he makes should address the problems with the editing environment that are unrelated to me, he told me "You are still free to request sanction of those other editors at arbitration enforcement; at least then one decision or another will be made." -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 22:24, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I would also like people who think I’m doing something wrong by posting about this here to read this exchange. Not only was I given permission to post here by the admin who topic banned me, but I was given permission specifically in response to requesting admin attention for the same behavior I’m reporting here, including most of the same examples/diffs.

If I actually am doing something wrong by making this report, then there’s a serious problem here with contradictory messages from admins. Since I was given permission to post here about this exact thing, I don't see how anyone could have expected me to predict that posting about it would be regarded as abusing that permission. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 00:19, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I've only done minimal editing in this area, but I could not help notice that unilateral moves to a POV title like that performed by WeijiBaikeBianji "Genetics and the decline of race" (a month ago, and soon reverted) cannot be constructive. Mind you, I also disagree with the naming (and scope) of Lewontin's Fallacy; POV titles aren't helpful either way. Tijfo098 (talk) 23:39, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
WeijiBaikeBianji also supported the use of an extreme source, Steven Rose, in the lead of Heritability of IQ, . Rose commits errors of omission, for instance failing to say that heritability may or may not depend on the environment; for some genes it does but for some it doesn't. His paper has only 3 citations, so it's hardly the mainstream view, but nevertheless WeijiBaikeBianji supports citing in verbatim in the lead of an article. (Based on his biased premises, which are cited in the Misplaced Pages article, Rose concludes in his paper that heritability is a useless measure for any purpose. The only English source that found worthwhile to cite Rose's paper so far, only used it to support this sentence: "Heritability calculations are often indirect and involve simplified models of genetic versus non-genetic contributors ". By the way, a 2009 Nature paper that is obviously at odds with Rose's conclusions somehow garnered 272 citations already. I wonder why...) Tijfo098 (talk) 00:21, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it can convincingly be shown by reliable sources that Steven Rose is more extreme or makes more errors than other of the scholars used to defend the high heritability estimates such as Rushton, Jensen and Lynn. In fact I think the inclusion of Rose as a source would be a good move towards bringing some balance into the use of sources in those articles.·Maunus·ƛ· 16:44, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm new to wiki as a whole, but I read the article concerning race and intelligence and found that one edited passages concerning Richard Lynn. The edit debated Lynn's work with sources that never directly mentioned Lynn. and the discussion on the talk:

I reverted the passage back to the way it was beforehand, but WeijiBaikeBianji reverted back to the synthesized, not properly sourced edit. He stated that it was okay, but he didn't even address that it wasn't synthesis of sources that never mentioned Lynn.

By reading more into it, the only reason I could see for this is if WeijiBaikeBianji felt this synthesized paragraph supported his own beliefs. I can't be sure of anything, it just doesn't add up for me to see why someone wouldn't acknowledge the clearly sloppy style of the passage I mentioned.-SightWatcher (talk) 02:25, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Mathsci

From what has been said by the three administrators that have commented above and below (Looie, Angus McLellan, and Timotheus Canens), the evidence presented does not show any need for enforcement (no edit warring, personal attacks, etc).

NuclearWarfare (talk · contribs · former admin: blocks · protections · deletions · rights · meta · local rights) is currently (temporarily and voluntarily since Oct 12 ) not an administrator so strictly speaking should probably have placed his comment outside the "uninvolved administrators" section below. His topic ban on Ferahgo the Assassin still stands, but he is temporarily not an administrator.

Ferhago the Assassin's most recent edits at the moment do not seem to be compatible with her topic ban. After getting the statements by the three uninvolved admimistrators—apparently not to her satisfaction—she canvassed a hand-picked set of editors of the articles from which she is topic-banned concerning this enforcement request. Presumably Ferahgo the Assassin was aided in the selection by Captain Occam. Far from staying away from this topic, the pair of them have sought out loopholes and possible inconsistencies between statements of administrators in order to continue the WP:BATTLE that Captain Occam was fighting "tooth and nail" (to quote Shell Kinney) against his perceived opponents at the close of arbitration. This has been been going on for over two months. The topic ban of Ferahgo the Assasin was imposed on October 10th, when she made her request to submit here. She waited two weeks to submit. At that time two of the users she canvassed had not even made their first edits on wikipedia, one appearing on October 12th and the other on October 17th ; a third is still the subject of a sock puppet investigation. Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin must be completely aware that this type of canvassing is disruptive—it looks like an attempt to "fix the jury"—and is a serious violation of their joint topic ban (per WP:SHARE), no matter what new excuses they present to justify themselves. Enough is enough: at this juncture one or both of them should now be subject to WP:ARBR&I#Enforcement. Mathsci (talk) 06:58, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Additional comments by Mathsci

Ferahgo the Assassin seems to have misunderstood what is entailed in topic bans, both for herself and others, She has been discussing directly in great detail the content of articles related to Race and intelligence, how they have been edited and who edits them. Common sense should have told her that that is exactly what her topic ban is to prevent her doing. Per WP:SHARE, the presumption now is also that these matters and indeed her general strategy here were decided jointly with Captain Occam, and that she is also speaking on his behalf. To suggest otherwise, after statements to this effect by multiple arbitrators, is unrealistic.

My topic ban applies only to articles and their talk pages, not to wikipedia processes. I do not discuss at all the content of articles, nor by whom or how they are edited. Ferahgo the Assassin on the other hand has been doing just that and in addition devoting her energies to lobbying multiple administrators. She has yet again suggested that the reason for this request—her wish for the subject of this request to be topic-banned—is to correct the "imbalance" resulting from the topic bans on editors like her and Captain Occam.

So far every administrator approached by Ferahgo the Assassin has told her that this request was misjudged. The best advice that can be given now is simply to withdraw the request, as she may, without prejudice. Mathsci (talk) 06:04, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Mathsci, you are currently topic banned from race & intelligence issues and since this thread has nothing to do with you, you should not be posting here. I asked for and was granted permission to post this thread from both the admin who topic banned me and one of the arbitrators. As was pointed out by T. Canens and Angus McLellan, my discussing this here would be a violation of my topic ban if I had not been given this permission. Because you have been granted no such permission, your posting here primarily to voice accusations against me is both a violation of your topic ban and a clear disregard for NW's request that editors here comment on the content of the thread, not on the legitimacy of its posting.

As I stated above, I contacted the group of users who I did specifically in response to WeijiBaikeBianji’s complaint that I had not contacted any of the other users involved in the disputes I was posting about. If WBB had not expressed a preference that I do this, I would not have done so, and what I did was contact every user who was involved in these disputes - nothing more, and nothing less. Other than WeijiBaikeBianji himself, Victor Chmara was the main person involved in the dispute over WBB’s undiscussed renames in the first two examples I provided, Maunus was the main other person involved in the dispute over WBB’s selective removal of links from BLP articles in my third example, the fourth example involved one dispute between WBB and Woodsrock and another between him and Miradre, and the fifth involved one dispute between him and me and another between him and Sightwatcher. Those are the five people who I contacted. There are a lot of users I could have contacted who were only marginally involved in these disputes but who still would have most likely agreed with me, such as Dbachmann (who accused WBB of POV-pushing in response to his undiscussed rename of the Race and genetics article) and TrevelyanL85A2 (who agreed with SightWatcher that the material WBB reinstated in my fifth example was original research). But because both of them were not the main players in these disputes, I assumed that WeijiBaikeBianji’s preference that I contact the other involved editors did not extend to them also. The group of editors who I contacted is, as far as I know, exactly the group of editors whom WBB had a desire for me to contact.

Really, your near-constant assumption of bad faith - even about the specific effort I was making to comply with WBB’s wishes regarding this request - is a pretty good example of the behavior for which you were topic banned. I notice you’re also misrepresenting the opinions of the admins who’ve commented thus far. Contrary to your claim that they think that "the evidence presented does not show any need for enforcement", none of them have yet expressed an opinion at all about whether the evidence I’ve presented is actionable under the discretionary sanctions. The only thing they’ve commented on is whether I’m within my rights by posting this thread. But now that NW has pointed out that my topic ban allows me to post here, presumably they’ll at this point they’ll be making a decision about whether it’s worth taking action about the content of this thread, including the fact that you’ve gotten involved in it. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 11:20, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Muntuwandi

My understanding is that Arbitration proceedings are the last stop in dispute resolution. Arbitration requests are accepted when the other available forums for dispute resolution such as talk pages, user talk pages and noticeboards, have been exhausted. Looking at the evidence presented by Ferahgo, I see little evidence that normal discussions on talk pages have failed to resolve some of the concerns about a few of Weiji's edits. In fact many of the edits cited by Ferahgo are becoming stale. For example, according to the revision history of the Richard Lynn article, Weiji's last edit was on the 1st of October, more than three weeks ago. Talk:Richard Lynn has also been stale since about the same time. Ferahgo's evidence relies heavily on content issues, but I see very little evidence of specific conduct issues, such as violating the 3RR, engaging in low grade edit warring or disruptively editing against consensus. I haven't agreed with all of Weiji's edits, for example I didn't agree with moving the race and genetics article, but Weiji did explain his rationale stating that there is a Britannica article The decline of “race” in science. To summarize, I believe that Ferahgo the Assassin and or Captain Occam are once again trying to circumvent their topic ban by exploiting a loophole. Since filing topic ban requests is strictly speaking not within the scope of their topic ban, it would appear that they are using this request as a means of continuing their content battles. Weiji's is a relative newcomer to Misplaced Pages. Concerns about Weiji's edits should first be addressed on talk pages and only if these discussions fail, should these concerns be escalated to other places. At present their is little evidence that normal discussions have failed to resolve these issues. The real problem here is Captain Occam and his continued gamesmanship. At some stage a software restriction may be necessary to put an end to this endless drama Wapondaponda (talk) 10:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Additional comments by Muntuwandi I think there is too much wikilawyering. Captain Occam and Ferahgo are topic banned from race and intelligence matters broadly construed. Since they are subject to Arbcom remedies, it is reasonable and expected that they can file Arbcom requests, especially if an arbcom request concerns their remedies. Topic bans are enforced by the community, and what constitutes a topic is a subjective decision. The boundaries of a topic are also subjective. However the topic bans are broadly construed to prevent gaming. It is the spirit of the topic ban, not the "letter of the law" that is important. In this case, Ferahgo and or Captain Occam have filed a request that does not have much in terms of specific conduct or procedural problems, but instead is filled with content jargon. In general it is appropriate for Occam and Ferahgo to file Arbcom requests, but it is inappropriate for Occam and Ferahgo to use this privilege as a means to get around their topic ban. I am concerned about Captain Occam/Ferahgo's pattern of canvassing, particularly because this strategy seems to work. It may be psychological, but whenever an editor asks another editor to comment on a matter, the comments tend to be favorable. Some editors avoid this tendency, which is commendable, but many don't. These are

There is a lot of canvassing going on, including trying to canvass Jimbo Wales. All but two of Ferahgo's user contributions are related to race and intelligence matters. Wapondaponda (talk) 20:42, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

This is arbitration enforcement, not a request for arbitration. Look at the other requests on this page - when discretionary sanctions have been authorized on an article by an existing arbcom ruling, this is the place to bring editor behavior to admin attention when one thinks that’s needed. I have also been told by both several admins and one of the arbitrators that if there was editor behavior on these articles which needed admin attention, this was where I should bring it up.

Are you ever going to do more on these articles than try to drive away the editors who disagree with you? Since the end of the arbcom case, this has been the near-exclusive purpose of your participation here. You’re not even being subtle about it, with your explicit advocacy of software restrictions. I had hoped that you'd drop this attitude when you finally managed to get me topic banned, after more than a month of your involvement here being exclusively focused on me, but nope - during the two weeks after my topic ban, all but one of your contributions in this topic area have been devoted to getting rid of Miradre next. In the past two months, you’ve only made one content edit on any of these articles that wasn’t a revert, and that was directly in response to Maunus pressuring you about it. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 11:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

The Britannica article (on race; there's no article with the title you claim, that's just a section in the race article) is written by anthropologist Audrey Smedley who adopts a Lewontian POV; Smedley cites Lewontin, but no other geneticists. See Lewontin's Fallacy for what other equally distinguished geneticists think. Smedley completely ignores, either willingly or by shear ignorance, any post-2000 developments in genetics. Articles like that is why Britannica is hopeless. Tijfo098 (talk) 12:05, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Noah Rosenberg's Genetic structure of human populations (Science, 2002) has over 1000 citations today. Rosenberg's paper was the proximate trigger of A.W.F. Edwards' position paper titled Lewontin's Fallacy. Something from Watson comes to my mind about "has-beens" writing the Britannica articles. Tijfo098 (talk) 12:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Even though I agree, let's not focus too much on content here. The relevant issue is whether these behaviors from Weiji are a problem from a conduct perspective. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 12:41, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Maunus

I do think that WeijiBaikeBianji has had some moments of bad judgment - but generally he is one of the editors that are willing to listen to all other editors and consider statements backed by sources. I don't think that this petition should be considered, especially not since the editor making it is not directly affected by WeijiBaikeBianji's behaviour as she currently is not allowed to edit in the area. If editors that actually are interacting with WeijiBaikeBianji agree with Ferahgo's judgement then they can and should start an RfC or arbitrartion enforcement case. Ferahgo doesn't need to act as protector of other editors' interests in the area that she is no longer editing - I am sure everyone there is capable of taking steps to resolve their own disputes with out help from previous participants.·Maunus·ƛ· 15:21, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

As an editor who’s been involved in these articles recently, I agree that some of WeijiBaikeBianji’s behavior seems problematic and I would like it to receive some attention from admins. I might have tried to get admin attention for it myself, but I know little about how to deal with such matters, and didn't want to cause a fuss. I would have remained silent on it, but seeing as others who have been here longer are voicing opinions against him I thought I'd toss in my two cent.

Since this thread is about an issue I would have wanted to bring up if I’d known how to, I don’t think admins should discount it just because of who it was posted by. -SightWatcher (talk) 23:48, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

since my name has been mentioned, and since WBB asked my to comment, I will say this: I agree with Maunus' assessment of the situation. I certainly do not always agree with WBB, and sometimes their judgement may be off. But there is no doubt that this is a good faith editor who is trying to collaborate with other Wikipedians. There is no need for this bureaucratic attempt to clamp down on WBB. If WBB should be out of line at some point, it will be more than enough to get an admin to issue a warning or a short block, and I have no doubt that the user will be mature and considerate enough to react to such measures. This page here, otoh, is just an attempt to resolve content disputes by wikilawyering. --dab (𒁳) 07:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

A warning for WBB is all that I’m looking for here. I already stated in my initial report that I don’t think a topic ban is necessary, because I think he’s capable of contributing to these articles constructively if admins could point him in the right direction about it. It’s unfortunate that so many people here are reacting to this thread as though I were devoted to getting WBB topic banned, when I’ve already stated that isn’t my intention. If this thread could be closed with a warning for WBB and nothing else, I would be satisfied that it’s accomplished its purpose. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 08:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I think he has received enough feedback here already. I'm not sure what a formal warning would achieve. I've certainly seen more strong-headed editors who aren't sanctioned in any way. Tijfo098 (talk) 09:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I have to say after having told Ferhago that necessary reports were permitted, this is disappointing. This request focuses on content rather than any behavioral issues, which is clearly inappropriate both as a request and for someone who's topic banned. Additionally, canvassing isn't an appropriate way to handle these reports, and canvassing brand new accounts is remarkably suspicious. I hope that Ferhago takes everyone's advice here and stops watching the topic area. Shell 19:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC) P.S. I also found it interesting that Ferhago repeatedly asserts her right to make this report, but took other topic banned editors to task for pointing out the deficiencies. Shell 19:51, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Shell, I appreciate your input, but I have addressed all of these points already. The discretionary sanctions on these articles are intended to enforce NPOV policy, and when an editor is failing to observe this policy, it's necessary to provide examples of them doing so with diffs. When I asked permission to post this thread, these were the same concerns that I was referring to then. NW granted me permission to post an AE thread here in response to my explanation of this, which included a link to where Captain Occam described this behavior in the amendment thread, including most of the same examples and diffs covered my report.

I also explained that my contacting other involved editors was in response to Weiji wanting that. I contacted all of the other editors who had been involved in these disputes, and no one else - I'm not sure what I should have done differently. This seems like a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation. When I had contacted none of the other editors involved in these disputes, WeijiBaikeBianji complained that I had not contacted them, but in doing just that I get accused of canvassing.

Lastly, I think that Mathsci's comment here is inappropriate for two obvious reasons. First, I asked permission to post here and was granted it; he did no such thing. I would consider it just as inappropriate if Occam had posted here in my defense. Second, Mathsci's comments here demonstrate the same behavior his topic ban is intended to prevent, which is his incivility and battleground attitude. NW has agreed that Mathsci's posting here is a problem. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 21:13, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm afraid you've grossly misunderstood the Arbitration ruling; it was a matter of conduct, not content. I'm concerned that once again you indicate that this was based on information from Captain Occam - each time this happens, it looks more and more as if meatpuppetry is going to be a problem here. If you'll re-read my comment where I indicated that, as far as I know, editors aren't prohibited from making reports while topic banned, I also strongly suggested that you stop monitoring the topic area and work productively elsewhere. It's disappointing that you only heeded part of my comment.

About Mathsci, I find it hard to believe that you think the advice you were given by myself and NuclearWarfare somehow only applies to you. He made some very good points about your participation here - if you find that incivil and a "battleground attitude", I'd have to suggest again that you need to spend some time understanding how really Misplaced Pages works rather than continuing with the rather skewed interpretation you've learned from Captain Occam. Shell 23:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Various comments by Xxanthippe.

Sigh. I had hoped that this matter was over and done with. I have to agree that WeijiBaikeBianji has shown himself to be a biased and tendentious editor of the topic. I note that MathSci is also topic banned so I am surprised to find him editing here. Xxanthippe (talk) 21:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC).

Comments by Vecrumba

Yes, there was some ruffling of feathers on some renaming, those have in the end already all been dealt with in good faith. There is no editor at the R&I and related articles who does not have an editorial POV informed by sources—as opposed to vapor-based personal opinion. I believe everyone is trying to put the recent conflict firmly in the past. The seemingly incessant stirring of the pot in the aftermath of the R&I arbitration has served only to breed new perceptions of bad faith. Really, either someone's editorial opinion is based on a fair and accurate representation of reputable sources, or not. The sooner we all get back to editing the sooner we'll be on the road again to improving content. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 15:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning WeijiBaikeBianji

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I propose that this request be dismissed and the requesting party be prohibited from filing enforcement requests in this area. An editor who is topic-banned should not be filing enforcement requests unless there are clear and obvious violations, which is not the case here. Looie496 (talk) 19:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

When you are topic banned, you are banned from the topic, that is, you are banned from making any edit that has anything to do with the topic. This request has a lot to do with the topic. Therefore, it is within the scope of your topic ban. And, no, this is not "necessary and legitimate dispute resolution", because this request has nothing to do with your topic ban. Really, when you are banned, you should disengage and find something else to work with. T. Canens (talk) 03:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

I would disagree with the rest of you, at least in the theoretical sense. Nothing in my topic ban was meant to stop Ferahgo from filing a topic ban request. Now, I don't think that it would be wise for her to do this, and in fact think that she should abandon the topic area altogether. But I think this request should be evaluated on its own merits and the idea of preventing her from filing AE reports should only be discussed if this becomes a persistent problem. NW (Talk) 19:58, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

This is an odd sort of request. The way I see it, Ferahgo the Assassin is unhappy with the edits that WeijiBaikeBianji has been making in the various Race and intelligence related articles but, since Ferahgo the Assassin is topic banned from this area he/she cannot directly challenge these edits on the talk pages of those articles. However, the purpose of a topic ban is to ensure that the editor has no influence on the content of the article for the duration of the ban and it is a violation of that ban to attempt to influence the content of these articles in any way. Since each and every charge above is content related, it is both improper as well as a violation for Ferahgo the Assassin to raise the issue here. I propose that this request be dismissed; Ferahgo the Assassin be warned that a topic ban, broadly construed, means that he or she should focus on content in unrelated articles, returning to this set of articles only when the topic ban is formally ended; and be formally advised that continued attempts to influence content in these articles will lead to him/her being blocked. --RegentsPark (talk) 02:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

This request does not reflect well on Ferahgo. Although Weiji's edits may raise some eyebrows, they do not rise to the level of an enforcement action here. Meanwhile Ferahgo is testing the edges of her topic ban. This is not a matter of 'necessary and legitimate dispute resolution.' She should wait till the ban expires until she resumes her efforts to influence article content in this topic area. If she wants an open-ended permission to file enforcement requests that do not concern her directly, she should open a request for clarification with Arbcom. The recent comments by individual arbitrators about WP:ARBCC suggest they now take a dim view of this kind of thing. Unless she files such a clarification, I agree with RegentsPark that the closer of this AE should formally advise Ferahgo that additional filings by her on admin noticeboards may lead to a block. EdJohnston (talk) 18:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

The filing party was specifically permitted by Nuclear Warfare, the administrator who initially topic-banned him, to submit this request for arbitration, so I am confused as to why there are overly-harsh calls for him to be reminded or prohibited from filing AE requests relating to the subject area he is banned from. I would disagree very strongly with attempts to sanction or formally remind the filing party on the basis that he was (misguidedly or not) told it was permissible to submit this enforcement request.
In my experience, requests for enforcement submitted by a not-uninvolved filing party are often derailed by conversation about whether the filing party ought to be sanctioned for submitting the AE complaint. It would be wrong to allow this thread to take that course, and we should now re-examine the merits of the actual complaint. If the filing party had done something that would warrant him being sanctioned, then a separate thread should be devoted to that issue; in my opinion, he has not, and so that would be unnecessary. But informal, off-the-record guidance on whether he should in future be filing AE requests relating to this particular topic area might be warranted; and that should be held on the filing party's talk page—not here. Respectfully, AGK 18:55, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- I agree that we can't sanction the user simply for the act of filing this request, given NW's explicit permission. I do, however, have serious reservations about whether the exception is a good idea in the first place, and I think it may be a good idea to remove that exception. T. Canens (talk) 22:07, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Let me add a pointer here to WP:RFAR#Request for clarification: WP:ARBR&I. Looie496 (talk) 21:15, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

In the Request for clarification that is linked above by Looie496, the responding arbs seem to be saying that topic banned editors may usually be allowed to file at AE, but depending on what they file, they might eventually be blocked for disruption. The definition of disruption is at the discretion of admins. If this is Ferahgo's first filing at AE, it is probable too soon to classify her posts as disruptive. I suggest that this enforcement request be closed with no action against either Ferahgo or WeijiBaikeBianji. If anyone would prefer that the close contain a warning to Ferahgo, please propose some language that could be used. If there are no objections, I'll close in a few hours. EdJohnston (talk) 21:07, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
After reading the comments at the request for clarification, I concur with this. --RegentsPark (talk) 21:58, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Marknutley

Marknutley (talk · contribs) blocked for 2 weeks. T. Canens (talk) 16:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Request concerning Marknutley User requesting enforcement TS 13:07, 24 October 2010 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Marknutley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy that this user violated Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate change#Marknutley_topic-banned Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 12:39, 24 October 2010 Participates in community discussion arising from Off2riorob's BLP edit war on William Connolley, an article in the topic area, for which Off2riorob has been warned under the climate change discretionary sanctions. 12:47, 24 October 2010 Ditto Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) 18:00, 15 October 2010 Was informed of his topic ban by the arbitration clerk who closed the case. Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) Confirmation that he is to keep well away from the climate change articles, talk pages, and processes related to them, as the topic ban states. Additional comments by editor filing complaint A discussion immediately prior to this filing is here. See also arbitration committee comments at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request_for_clarification:_Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration.2FClimate_change (ongoing). Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Notified 13:09, 24 October 2010. Discussion concerning Marknutley Statement by Marknutley This is a piss take right? I comment on an editors proposed sanctions (sanctions which are being proposed from the editors entire editing history BTW) This has bugger all to do with CC and i demand this get thrown out and Tony get told not to file bullshit enforcement actions. mark (talk) 13:14, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Marknutley Do topic bans prohibit editors from participating in editor-focused dispute resolution forums such as AN, ANI, RfAR, etc? Cla68 (talk) 13:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC) To quote arbitrator Coren: "The point of the ruling is to get those editors to disengage. If they are unwilling or unable to do so, then we'll have no choice but to amend the decision to be more comprehensive and draconian for those editors." --TS 13:15, 24 October 2010 (UTC) (ec) In general, no. However, this ban prohibits "(1) from editing articles about Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; (2) from editing biographies of living people associated with Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; and (3) from participating in any Misplaced Pages process relating to those articles. " The particular dispute relates to edits of William Connolley; and, in fact, was commenting on a block related to a WP:3RR violation at that article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthur Rubin (talk • contribs) 13:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Well, I hope the Committee clarifies this point, because I was sorely tempted to comment when Tony Sidaway made those bogus allegations against Atren a few days ago. Cla68 (talk) 13:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC) I thought the topic ban which barred editors from process discussions had an exception when the editor is the target of the discussion? I don't see it at the moment. If there is such an exception (and there should be), Atren was brought up by TS in the AN thread, so ought to be able to respond. However, Mark was not, so should not have contributed. However, why was it at ANI, rather than AE? A weak case could be made that if a sysop brings up an issue at AN rather than AE, that is evidence that it is not a CC issue. A weak argument but an argument.--SPhilbrick T 14:09, 24 October 2010 (UTC) I'd like to see clarification regarding whether an editor named in a Misplaced Pages process are exempt form the rule prohibiting their involvement in the process. I note that William M. Connolley participated in the needling issue at AN, and that certainly should be allowed.--SPhilbrick T 14:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Please note that the specific incident that triggered this request involved a discussion of someone else's editing of a CC-related article, not a discussion of Mark's own editing. I think it would be perverse to say that an editor can't participate in a discussion of their own behavior (unless they are blocked, in which case they couldn't for technical reasons), but that isn't the situation at hand. --RL0919 (talk) 16:02, 24 October 2010 (UTC) I agree that the ban does seem to be applicable unless the Committee clarifies otherwise. The AN discussion was directly related to Off2riorob's editing of a CC-related article. I understand why Mark might want to interpret it differently, and given that this is the first discussion of this particular interpretation I don't think he should be further sanctioned in this instance, but my reading of the topic ban is that he shouldn't comment on this type of discussion at AN. --RL0919 (talk) 13:35, 24 October 2010 (UTC) I don't think any kind of exception would be appropriate at this stage, because the arbitrators are very clear that they want this bickering ended and attempts to stop it by invoking the topic ban should not (as indeed seems to be happening even here with the topic banned Cla68) be interpreted as invitations to do exactly what they've been told to stop doing. Enough is enough. Tasty monster (=TS ) 14:28, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Just to avoid confusion, I want to explicitly point out that Tasty monster is the account I use when I'm out and about with a telephone. --TS 20:59, 24 October 2010 (UTC) It seems clear that the ANI discussion is included because it concerns editing of CC articles. The question is whether mark nutley entered into the discussion thread because of a concern about the issues raised or did he want to influence the outcome based on whether the editor agreed or disagreed with his views on CC. TFD (talk) 16:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC) This complaint is not going to cool down CC conflicts - especially since it is exceedingly stretching them to go from commenting on CC (covered) to commenting on proposed bans not really directly related to CC conflicts - this extension would cover Nutley from commenting on Jimbo's talk page because someone there might have discussed CC :). Perhaps the cool-down time has arrived? I feel that this is simply picking at sores in the belief they will heal faster that way. Collect (talk) 21:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC) You've got it exactly the wrong way around. The way to stop the problem of people topic banned from climate change articles pushing the envelope is to come down hard on those who push the envelope. If you don't, they'll still be pushing it next month. Then what do you do? Falsely claiming that this would ban Mark Nutley from commenting on Jimbo's user talk page if somebody else had discussed global warming does not help. Stop it. The topic banned editors have been told to drop the stick and move away. Now we need to show them we mean it. --TS 21:23, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Yes but i dropped the stick about 6 weeks before the CC case even closed. And to comment on an ANI thread about a discussed sanction for an editor which was taking into account his entire editing history is not a breach of the CC probation. It was not just one article dispute which was being discussed was it? mark (talk) 22:54, 24 October 2010 (UTC) I did allow that at first. Notice that I said "you may have missed the context that the precipitating action was an edit war involving Off2riorob's repeated insertion of dodgy material at William Connolley, for which he has now received a very strong warning under the climate change discretionary sanctions." At that point to observe your topic ban you could have backed off. Did you? No. That's why we're here. You didn't back off and you now refuse to recognise that this is an instance when it would have been correct to back off. You said: "I am not commenting on a CC article at all" That's a problem because you were clearly ignoring the process component of the ban. I'm only asking for a statement that you, and everybody else under this topic ban (some of whom have been less cooperative than you) should back off. --TS 23:40, 24 October 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Marknutley This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. I can't see any enforceable violation of the CC sanctions here. Looie496 (talk) 00:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC) It may or may not be a technical violation (that is somewhat unclear), but Mark should have known better. I'm sorry, but I really don't know how much clearer the message can be to the topic-banned users: Please go away. If the discussion is on-wiki and even tangentially related to climate change, and is not directly discussing you, then leave it alone. You lost those editing privileges in the case. Now its time to back off for a while and go edit something else. As far as a sanction for mark, I suggest we clarify that this is not acceptable, and we caution him to respect the rule-of-thumb I just outlined. The Wordsmith 08:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC) This is a cut-and-dry violation of the topic ban. A block- I'm thinking two weeks- should be the result of this kind of flagrant violation of a topic ban. Courcelles 16:22, 25 October 2010 (UTC) I agree with Courcelles about a two-week block for violating the topic ban. It is fair to consider the article on William Connolley to be related to Climate Change. Misplaced Pages process about that article (even if the process is about sanctioning someone who has edited there recently) falls into the banned area. EdJohnston (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Hmm, this is somewhat borderline, but I have to agree with Courcelles and EdJohnston here that there is a violation; I won't go as far as EdJohnston's wording suggests, but a Misplaced Pages process about sanctioning someone whose recent edits to a CC article triggered the said process is in my view properly considered to be within the scope of the ban, even if the CC edits are not the only thing considered in the said process. I also agree with the spirit of The Wordsmith's comment, though not his proposed sanction. T. Canens (talk) 21:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Okay then, what sanction would you prefer? The Wordsmith 02:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC) I'm thinking about a substantial block, along the lines of Courcelles/EdJohnston's proposal. T. Canens (talk) 03:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC) I think I'll agree that that is an acceptable result. Do we have sufficient consensus to enact a two-week block? The Wordsmith 03:32, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Yes, we do. Blocked for two weeks. Courcelles 08:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Marknutley (talk · contribs) blocked for 2 weeks. T. Canens (talk) 16:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Marknutley

User requesting enforcement: TS 13:07, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Marknutley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate change#Marknutley_topic-banned

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

12:39, 24 October 2010 Participates in community discussion arising from Off2riorob's BLP edit war on William Connolley, an article in the topic area, for which Off2riorob has been warned under the climate change discretionary sanctions.
12:47, 24 October 2010 Ditto

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

18:00, 15 October 2010 Was informed of his topic ban by the arbitration clerk who closed the case.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Confirmation that he is to keep well away from the climate change articles, talk pages, and processes related to them, as the topic ban states.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: A discussion immediately prior to this filing is here.; See also arbitration committee comments at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request_for_clarification:_Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration.2FClimate_change (ongoing).

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: Notified 13:09, 24 October 2010.

Discussion concerning Marknutley

Statement by Marknutley

This is a piss take right? I comment on an editors proposed sanctions (sanctions which are being proposed from the editors entire editing history BTW) This has bugger all to do with CC and i demand this get thrown out and Tony get told not to file bullshit enforcement actions. mark (talk) 13:14, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Marknutley

Do topic bans prohibit editors from participating in editor-focused dispute resolution forums such as AN, ANI, RfAR, etc? Cla68 (talk) 13:12, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

To quote arbitrator Coren: "The point of the ruling is to get those editors to disengage. If they are unwilling or unable to do so, then we'll have no choice but to amend the decision to be more comprehensive and draconian for those editors." --TS 13:15, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

(ec) In general, no. However, this ban prohibits "(1) from editing articles about Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; (2) from editing biographies of living people associated with Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; and (3) from participating in any Misplaced Pages process relating to those articles. " The particular dispute relates to edits of William Connolley; and, in fact, was commenting on a block related to a WP:3RR violation at that article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthur Rubin (talk • contribs) 13:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I hope the Committee clarifies this point, because I was sorely tempted to comment when Tony Sidaway made those bogus allegations against Atren a few days ago. Cla68 (talk) 13:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I thought the topic ban which barred editors from process discussions had an exception when the editor is the target of the discussion? I don't see it at the moment. If there is such an exception (and there should be), Atren was brought up by TS in the AN thread, so ought to be able to respond. However, Mark was not, so should not have contributed. However, why was it at ANI, rather than AE? A weak case could be made that if a sysop brings up an issue at AN rather than AE, that is evidence that it is not a CC issue. A weak argument but an argument.--SPhilbrick T 14:09, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to see clarification regarding whether an editor named in a Misplaced Pages process are exempt form the rule prohibiting their involvement in the process. I note that William M. Connolley participated in the needling issue at AN, and that certainly should be allowed.--SPhilbrick T 14:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Please note that the specific incident that triggered this request involved a discussion of someone else's editing of a CC-related article, not a discussion of Mark's own editing. I think it would be perverse to say that an editor can't participate in a discussion of their own behavior (unless they are blocked, in which case they couldn't for technical reasons), but that isn't the situation at hand. --RL0919 (talk) 16:02, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the ban does seem to be applicable unless the Committee clarifies otherwise. The AN discussion was directly related to Off2riorob's editing of a CC-related article. I understand why Mark might want to interpret it differently, and given that this is the first discussion of this particular interpretation I don't think he should be further sanctioned in this instance, but my reading of the topic ban is that he shouldn't comment on this type of discussion at AN. --RL0919 (talk) 13:35, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think any kind of exception would be appropriate at this stage, because the arbitrators are very clear that they want this bickering ended and attempts to stop it by invoking the topic ban should not (as indeed seems to be happening even here with the topic banned Cla68) be interpreted as invitations to do exactly what they've been told to stop doing. Enough is enough. Tasty monster (=TS ) 14:28, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Just to avoid confusion, I want to explicitly point out that Tasty monster is the account I use when I'm out and about with a telephone. --TS 20:59, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

It seems clear that the ANI discussion is included because it concerns editing of CC articles. The question is whether mark nutley entered into the discussion thread because of a concern about the issues raised or did he want to influence the outcome based on whether the editor agreed or disagreed with his views on CC. TFD (talk) 16:24, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

This complaint is not going to cool down CC conflicts - especially since it is exceedingly stretching them to go from commenting on CC (covered) to commenting on proposed bans not really directly related to CC conflicts - this extension would cover Nutley from commenting on Jimbo's talk page because someone there might have discussed CC :). Perhaps the cool-down time has arrived? I feel that this is simply picking at sores in the belief they will heal faster that way. Collect (talk) 21:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

You've got it exactly the wrong way around. The way to stop the problem of people topic banned from climate change articles pushing the envelope is to come down hard on those who push the envelope. If you don't, they'll still be pushing it next month. Then what do you do?

Falsely claiming that this would ban Mark Nutley from commenting on Jimbo's user talk page if somebody else had discussed global warming does not help. Stop it.

The topic banned editors have been told to drop the stick and move away. Now we need to show them we mean it. --TS 21:23, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes but i dropped the stick about 6 weeks before the CC case even closed. And to comment on an ANI thread about a discussed sanction for an editor which was taking into account his entire editing history is not a breach of the CC probation. It was not just one article dispute which was being discussed was it? mark (talk) 22:54, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I did allow that at first. Notice that I said "you may have missed the context that the precipitating action was an edit war involving Off2riorob's repeated insertion of dodgy material at William Connolley, for which he has now received a very strong warning under the climate change discretionary sanctions."

At that point to observe your topic ban you could have backed off. Did you? No. That's why we're here. You didn't back off and you now refuse to recognise that this is an instance when it would have been correct to back off. You said:

"I am not commenting on a CC article at all"

That's a problem because you were clearly ignoring the process component of the ban.

I'm only asking for a statement that you, and everybody else under this topic ban (some of whom have been less cooperative than you) should back off. --TS 23:40, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Marknutley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I can't see any enforceable violation of the CC sanctions here. Looie496 (talk) 00:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

It may or may not be a technical violation (that is somewhat unclear), but Mark should have known better. I'm sorry, but I really don't know how much clearer the message can be to the topic-banned users: Please go away. If the discussion is on-wiki and even tangentially related to climate change, and is not directly discussing you, then leave it alone. You lost those editing privileges in the case. Now its time to back off for a while and go edit something else. As far as a sanction for mark, I suggest we clarify that this is not acceptable, and we caution him to respect the rule-of-thumb I just outlined. The Wordsmith 08:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- This is a cut-and-dry violation of the topic ban. A block- I'm thinking two weeks- should be the result of this kind of flagrant violation of a topic ban. Courcelles 16:22, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- I agree with Courcelles about a two-week block for violating the topic ban. It is fair to consider the article on William Connolley to be related to Climate Change. Misplaced Pages process about that article (even if the process is about sanctioning someone who has edited there recently) falls into the banned area. EdJohnston (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
- Hmm, this is somewhat borderline, but I have to agree with Courcelles and EdJohnston here that there is a violation; I won't go as far as EdJohnston's wording suggests, but a Misplaced Pages process about sanctioning someone whose recent edits to a CC article triggered the said process is in my view properly considered to be within the scope of the ban, even if the CC edits are not the only thing considered in the said process. I also agree with the spirit of The Wordsmith's comment, though not his proposed sanction. T. Canens (talk) 21:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
  - Okay then, what sanction would you prefer? The Wordsmith 02:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
    - I'm thinking about a substantial block, along the lines of Courcelles/EdJohnston's proposal. T. Canens (talk) 03:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
      - I think I'll agree that that is an acceptable result. Do we have sufficient consensus to enact a two-week block? The Wordsmith 03:32, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
        Yes, we do. Blocked for two weeks. Courcelles 08:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Mbz1

Both the reporter and the reported user were blocked for violation of the interaction ban, Factomancer for 72 hours by Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs) and Mbz1 for 24 hours by PhilKnight (talk · contribs). Courcelles 15:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Mbz1 User requesting enforcement Factomancer (talk) 08:25, 25 October 2010 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Mbz1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy that this user violated Misplaced Pages:Editing_restrictions#Placed_by_the_Wikipedia_community Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it Editing an article I just created and reverting my changes to the article by adding claims of chemical weapons which is specifically disallowed by the interaction ban. I was blocked for doing much less, making a single edit, at Maimonides Synagogue. Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto This edit violates the "commenting about other parties in other venues" clause of the interaction ban, since she was directly referring to my edits. Don't make the mistake that I did and assume that you need to use someone's name before the interaction ban kicks in - I have been blocked many times for not even using the other parties name but making any reference to them or their edits whatsoever. The interaction ban has been interpreted "broadly" by blocking admins to include any reference. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Not applicable, since user has been blocked for violating this interaction ban before. Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) Block. A long time would be appropriate given this account's block history. Additional comments by editor filing complaint I have asked an admin who has blocked me multiple times under the interaction ban for violations much less severe than this, but he ignored my request (User:Georgewilliamherbert). Most of my block history constitutes pubishments for "violations" of this interaction ban, most of the violations much more trivial than this, by admins Georgewilliamherbert and Sandstein. They have been loathe to apply the same exacting standards to the other parties of the interaction ban, which is why I have resorted here. If this request does not result in a block, I will be forced to leave Misplaced Pages. Any time I start editing an article the other parties of the interaction ban can start edit warring against me and reverting my edits and I will be unable to discuss their edits with them or revert their edits without violating the interaction ban. In this way the interaction ban is being used by some as a de-facto sub-rosa license to kick me off Misplaced Pages without the proper process of a community ban. If I am to be kicked off Misplaced Pages, fine, but I expect due process, not this abuse of an interaction ban. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested I cannot do this without violating the interaction ban myself. (Notified by another editor: ) Discussion concerning Mbz1 Statement by Mbz1 I hope I am allowed to respond here. My interaction ban conditions as stated here are "This editing restriction shall include a complete prohibition from comments on the respective user talk pages, filing reports on admin noticeboards, reverting edits on articles, commenting in other venues about the other party, or directly responding to each other's comments on article talk pages. This restriction by itself does not prohibit mutual participation on articles, as long as the editors stay away from each other. The restriction is to be interpreted broadly." I did not violate any of those conditions. I did some work on the article, but I've never reverted anybody at all, not a single revert, not a partial revert, not .00000001 revert was done by me. I only added bran new, well bran new sourced information. as you could see here nothing was reverted only added. Besides adding some new info all other my edits were fixing my own mistakes, made in prior edits,fixing my English and/or moving my own additions from one place to another. It was "a mutual participation on articles" that is allowed under my ban restrictions. This edit is not a violation of my ban because I was discussing nobody. The situation with Maimonides Synagogue was an absolutely different case. My own edits were reverted. I have never at all violated my interaction ban. I have no difficulties in following my restrictions. --Mbz1 (talk) 11:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Mbz1 Hmmmm... The diff 8 that PK uses as justification for a ban seems like fairly thin gruel. I mean, Mbz was just posting a notification, no? It wasn't even really a comment. Seems a little strict PK. On the other hand, I guess a single day ban is a fairly innocuous slap-on-the-hand. NickCT (talk) 18:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Facts recently made a final statement on their user page. Looks like the editor is leaving bu they have left before. Along with some other emotional stuff, "My contributions are far more numerous than those of the other parties of the interaction ban, whose material is of a poor, openly biased quality and whose English is much worse than mine." Was part of it. This is also in violation of the interaction ban. Mbz1 can't and shouldn't respond to it (her images have been awesome on this project, BTW) but I thought it might be appropriate to impose an additional topic ban since there is a possibility Facts will return.Cptnono (talk) 18:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Should this be addressed before this is closed or should it just be chalked up to some general venting due to the block?Cptnono (talk) 22:05, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Mbz1 This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Complainant blocked, per the interaction ban. However, I think there may be merits to the claim, so I'm not summarily closing it. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC) I would prefer that another administrator deal with the claim as written. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:11, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Arthur Rubin has blocked Factomancer 72 hours. Factomancer is restricted from 'filing reports on admin noticeboards.. about the other party.' Arthur has asked that we check if there is any merit in the complaint against Mbz1. Actually the editing at Operation Damocles appears very harmonious for an article under ARBPIA, except for a couple of hot-headed edit summaries by Factomancer. I did not notice Mbz1 making any reverts of material added by others. Factomancer seems to be complaining about the mere fact that Mbz1 is editing an article which he started. He is surely aware that the ban permits 'mutual participation on articles.' I urge that this report be closed with no further action. EdJohnston (talk) 17:36, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Firstly, I agree that ironically enough making this report is a violation of the ban which includes a complete prohibition on filing reports on admin noticeboards, and that 72 hours is a reasonable duration. However, I fail to see anything 'harminious', unless you're joking, and concur with Sandstein's comment. Finally, I think item 8 also infringes the ban, so I'm considering giving Mbz1 a short block. PhilKnight (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC) OK, I see how diff #8 could violate the restriction on "commenting in other venues about the other party," in this case Factomancer. So a short block of Mbz1 would be justified. 'Harmonious' could be too strong, but the article seemed to be improving in spite of the adversarial editing. EdJohnston (talk) 17:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Thanks for clarifying. I'll block Mbz1 for 24 hours. PhilKnight (talk) 18:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC) This request does not even belong here. The community ban was issued at ANI without any reference to ArbCom sanctions, as far as I can see, and the request does not reference an ArbCom sanction, so it should have been handled at ANI. Please read WT:RFARB#What belongs at AE for an explanation of why this is important. Looie496 (talk) 20:35, 25 October 2010 (UTC) I'm aware of that Looie, and I guess the other admins are as well. Personally, I think moving this request was unnecessary. PhilKnight (talk) 20:41, 25 October 2010 (UTC) It was necessary because it's now unclear whether the blocks that have been imposed are AE blocks, which cannot be reversed or substantially reduced, or ordinary blocks, which are subject to alteration in a variety of ways. Looie496 (talk) 21:20, 25 October 2010 (UTC) If you look at Mbz1's talk page, you'll notice that I didn't use {{uw-aeblock}}, but instead {{uw-block}}, and I expressly permitted any other admin unblocking. PhilKnight (talk) 21:43, 25 October 2010 (UTC) The interaction ban probably could have been imposed under ARBPIA authority, but apparently wasn't. Okay, so this doesn't belong at AE technically. Neither blocks imposed were identified as an AE block. So this can be closed now. T. Canens (talk) 22:01, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Both the reporter and the reported user were blocked for violation of the interaction ban, Factomancer for 72 hours by Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs) and Mbz1 for 24 hours by PhilKnight (talk · contribs). Courcelles 15:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Mbz1

User requesting enforcement: Factomancer (talk) 08:25, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Mbz1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Misplaced Pages:Editing_restrictions#Placed_by_the_Wikipedia_community

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Editing an article I just created and reverting my changes to the article by adding claims of chemical weapons which is specifically disallowed by the interaction ban. I was blocked for doing much less, making a single edit, at Maimonides Synagogue.
Ditto
Ditto
Ditto
Ditto
Ditto
Ditto
This edit violates the "commenting about other parties in other venues" clause of the interaction ban, since she was directly referring to my edits. Don't make the mistake that I did and assume that you need to use someone's name before the interaction ban kicks in - I have been blocked many times for not even using the other parties name but making any reference to them or their edits whatsoever. The interaction ban has been interpreted "broadly" by blocking admins to include any reference.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Not applicable, since user has been blocked for violating this interaction ban before.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Block. A long time would be appropriate given this account's block history.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: I have asked an admin who has blocked me multiple times under the interaction ban for violations much less severe than this, but he ignored my request (User:Georgewilliamherbert).

Most of my block history constitutes pubishments for "violations" of this interaction ban, most of the violations much more trivial than this, by admins Georgewilliamherbert and Sandstein. They have been loathe to apply the same exacting standards to the other parties of the interaction ban, which is why I have resorted here.

If this request does not result in a block, I will be forced to leave Misplaced Pages. Any time I start editing an article the other parties of the interaction ban can start edit warring against me and reverting my edits and I will be unable to discuss their edits with them or revert their edits without violating the interaction ban.

In this way the interaction ban is being used by some as a de-facto sub-rosa license to kick me off Misplaced Pages without the proper process of a community ban.

If I am to be kicked off Misplaced Pages, fine, but I expect due process, not this abuse of an interaction ban.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: I cannot do this without violating the interaction ban myself. (Notified by another editor: )

Discussion concerning Mbz1

Statement by Mbz1

I hope I am allowed to respond here.

My interaction ban conditions as stated here are "This editing restriction shall include a complete prohibition from comments on the respective user talk pages, filing reports on admin noticeboards, reverting edits on articles, commenting in other venues about the other party, or directly responding to each other's comments on article talk pages. This restriction by itself does not prohibit mutual participation on articles, as long as the editors stay away from each other. The restriction is to be interpreted broadly."

I did not violate any of those conditions. I did some work on the article, but I've never reverted anybody at all, not a single revert, not a partial revert, not .00000001 revert was done by me. I only added bran new, well bran new sourced information. as you could see here nothing was reverted only added. Besides adding some new info all other my edits were fixing my own mistakes, made in prior edits,fixing my English and/or moving my own additions from one place to another. It was "a mutual participation on articles" that is allowed under my ban restrictions. This edit is not a violation of my ban because I was discussing nobody.

The situation with Maimonides Synagogue was an absolutely different case. My own edits were reverted.

I have never at all violated my interaction ban. I have no difficulties in following my restrictions.

--Mbz1 (talk) 11:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Mbz1

Hmmmm... The diff 8 that PK uses as justification for a ban seems like fairly thin gruel. I mean, Mbz was just posting a notification, no? It wasn't even really a comment. Seems a little strict PK. On the other hand, I guess a single day ban is a fairly innocuous slap-on-the-hand. NickCT (talk) 18:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Facts recently made a final statement on their user page. Looks like the editor is leaving bu they have left before. Along with some other emotional stuff, "My contributions are far more numerous than those of the other parties of the interaction ban, whose material is of a poor, openly biased quality and whose English is much worse than mine." Was part of it. This is also in violation of the interaction ban. Mbz1 can't and shouldn't respond to it (her images have been awesome on this project, BTW) but I thought it might be appropriate to impose an additional topic ban since there is a possibility Facts will return.Cptnono (talk) 18:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Should this be addressed before this is closed or should it just be chalked up to some general venting due to the block?Cptnono (talk) 22:05, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Mbz1

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Complainant blocked, per the interaction ban. However, I think there may be merits to the claim, so I'm not summarily closing it. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I would prefer that another administrator deal with the claim as written. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:11, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Arthur Rubin has blocked Factomancer 72 hours. Factomancer is restricted from 'filing reports on admin noticeboards.. about the other party.' Arthur has asked that we check if there is any merit in the complaint against Mbz1. Actually the editing at Operation Damocles appears very harmonious for an article under ARBPIA, except for a couple of hot-headed edit summaries by Factomancer. I did not notice Mbz1 making any reverts of material added by others. Factomancer seems to be complaining about the mere fact that Mbz1 is editing an article which he started. He is surely aware that the ban permits 'mutual participation on articles.' I urge that this report be closed with no further action. EdJohnston (talk) 17:36, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, I agree that ironically enough making this report is a violation of the ban which includes a complete prohibition on filing reports on admin noticeboards, and that 72 hours is a reasonable duration. However, I fail to see anything 'harminious', unless you're joking, and concur with Sandstein's comment. Finally, I think item 8 also infringes the ban, so I'm considering giving Mbz1 a short block. PhilKnight (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, I see how diff #8 could violate the restriction on "commenting in other venues about the other party," in this case Factomancer. So a short block of Mbz1 would be justified. 'Harmonious' could be too strong, but the article seemed to be improving in spite of the adversarial editing. EdJohnston (talk) 17:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. I'll block Mbz1 for 24 hours. PhilKnight (talk) 18:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

This request does not even belong here. The community ban was issued at ANI without any reference to ArbCom sanctions, as far as I can see, and the request does not reference an ArbCom sanction, so it should have been handled at ANI. Please read WT:RFARB#What belongs at AE for an explanation of why this is important. Looie496 (talk) 20:35, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm aware of that Looie, and I guess the other admins are as well. Personally, I think moving this request was unnecessary. PhilKnight (talk) 20:41, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

It was necessary because it's now unclear whether the blocks that have been imposed are AE blocks, which cannot be reversed or substantially reduced, or ordinary blocks, which are subject to alteration in a variety of ways. Looie496 (talk) 21:20, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

If you look at Mbz1's talk page, you'll notice that I didn't use {{uw-aeblock}}, but instead {{uw-block}}, and I expressly permitted any other admin unblocking. PhilKnight (talk) 21:43, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

The interaction ban probably could have been imposed under ARBPIA authority, but apparently wasn't. Okay, so this doesn't belong at AE technically. Neither blocks imposed were identified as an AE block. So this can be closed now. T. Canens (talk) 22:01, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Cla68

No action taken.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Request concerning Cla68 User requesting enforcement TS 11:03, 26 October 2010 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Cla68 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy that this user violated Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate_change#Climate_change:_discretionary_sanctions Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate_change#Cla68_topic-banned Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 12:56, 24 October 2010 Makes comment at Request for Clarification attacking another topic-banned editor. Continued battlefield conduct. 13:31, 24 October 2010 Comments at an arbitration enforcement request about another topic-banned editor. Introduces a grievance concerning an earlier discussion on climate change in which he was not an involved party. Continued battlefield conduct (see Finding 18, "Cla68's battlefield conduct".) Boundary-testing his topic ban. 05:12, 26 October 2010 Makes comment at Request for Clarification attacking the starter of the thread and excusing an earlier attack by saying "me and the others you mention were invited here by the filing party". 10:05, 26 October 2010 In reply to warning about continued involvement from Tony Sidaway (filer of this request), accuses that editor of "bad faith efforts to try to draw me back into the CC dispute so you can use it to criticize me...No one has caused more unnecessary drama since the CC case closed than you." Continued battlefield behavior and assumptions of bad faith. 10:12, 26 October 2010 Acknowledges arbitrator Carcharoth's advice but at same time accuses Tony Sidaway of "baiting" him. Continued battlefield behavior and assumptions of bad faith. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) 13:31, 24 October 2010 Informed of topic ban and discretionary sanctions by Dougweller (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), the arbitration clerk who closed the case. 00:25, 24 October 2010 Formal notification Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs) of Request for Clarification following concerns about ongoing boundary-testing by topic-banned editors. 09:57, 26 October 2010 Warning on continued skirting of topic ban, from Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs) Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) "We really mean it" block if necessary for the enforcement of the topic ban. Warning about continued assumptions of bad faith and other battlefield conduct. Warning of discretionary sanctions. Additional comments by editor filing complaint See arbitrators' comments at the Request for Clarification I filed on the continued boundary testing in the topic ban. Cla68 was one of about a dozen topic-banned editors affected by the Request for Clarification. See also community sentiment expressed at WP:AN on a thread about continued battlefield conduct and skirting the topic ban. I find Cla68's continued editing of his essay Misplaced Pages:Activist, which seems to amount to a psychological description of fellow topic-banned editor User:William M. Connolley, concerning, but that could just be me. During his recent involvement in the climate change topic area, Cla68 referred to a bruising encounter at Talk:Global warming during his early days as an editor, and I worry that he may have developed a personal obsession with him. Filer, subject and many of the admins are in three different timezones throughout the globe so expect slow response times. I've fixed the order of the diffs (not that I can see that it matters). I'd like to refer the uninvolved admins to Principle 6 of the arbitration, "Casting aspersions." This was an ongoing and very corrosive feature of the topic area prior to the arbitration. ATren is also a topic-banned editor. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 11:04, 26 October 2010 Discussion concerning Cla68 Statement by Cla68 For some reason, Tony Sidaway put the diffs out of time order above. I'll leave it up to you to decide why he might do that. Did you also notice that he tries to say that my editing an essay is somehow tied to this? Anyway.... Besides this exchange on my talk page, I have honored my topic ban. I removed all the CC articles from my watchlist. Out of the blue, however, on 24 October, Tony Sidaway left this notification on my talk page. Notifications, as we know, are customarily open invitations for interested editors to observe and comment on a proposed action. Following up on the notification, I commented on the topic under discussion, the diff of which Tony has placed out of time order above. I understood at that time that dispute resolution about an arbcom decision is ok on arbcom case pages, even on topic banned editors because arbcom was the body which had imposed the sanction in the first place. Soon after, Tony started an enforcement action on Marknutley, up above here. I was genuinely curious as to whether it was allowable for topic banned editors to participate in dispute resolution discussions involving other editors invoved with the CC articles. The reason I was curious, is because I had observed Tony make some false accusations against ATren in an WP:AN thread, and then had refused to withdraw the accusations when both ATren and WMC had told him he was badly mistaken. I wondered, in that case, if it was ok for other topic banned editors to get involved to try to make sure that the allegations were withdrawn. So, I asked for clarification, and amplified my reason in the diff that Tony Sidaway placed out of time order above. After TenofAllTrades criticized me and others for participating in the thread, I pointed out to him that Tony had invited us to do so. Judging by Tony's comments above and on my talk page, Tony apparently took exception to this. In my response to Tony's criticism, I gave him some honest, forthright criticism in return, and offered to help him expand and improve any non-CC articles. I then replied to Carcharoth on the clarification page, admitting that I was having trouble taking his advice not to respond to Tony's provocations on my talk page. So, none of my comments have been outside of the ArbCom pages, my own talk page, or Tony's page (I crossposted my response). Tony appears to be trying to escalate the dispute, for reasons I can only speculate at. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be the only dispute that Tony has tried to escalate recently (see below and recent threads at AN). Perhaps a prohibition on both of us interacting with each other might be in order? I would gladly accept that, as all of this has taken me away from work I was busy doing on an article that me and another editor are trying to get ready for Featured Article nomination. Cla68 (talk) 12:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Cla68 I would like to make one comment here: I have not touched the CC topic area in months, nor have I initiated interaction with any editors with whom I've had conflict, yet TS has placed three notifications on my talk page in the last week . Others have received similar notifications for issues not involving them, including Cla68. How are we supposed to detach when Tony keeps drawing us back in for no reason? The AE clarification was so vaguely worded by Tony that I honestly had no idea if I should respond. He also notified a dozen other editors of that vague request (see diffs here), most of whom are uninvolved. Tony is the one stirring the pot here. He is overreacting to minor (or even non-existent) issues, drawing people like Cla68 and other back in. And now he is reporting Cla68 for responding! I am asking the admins/arbs involved in this enforcement to please remove Tony from what appears to be his self-appointed role as enforcer of these sanctions. This will be my last comment here. ATren (talk) 12:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC) I find the evidence of continuing battlefield conduct particularly strong, but if two uninvolved administrators assess this as a non-infringement and none is going to firmly support the claim of infringement I'll leave it there. --TS 12:32, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Cla68's comments cited by TS are not optimal, but I think that this request is premature. Parties to the decision need to be asked to desist before something like this is initiated, and also I feel that the decision itself was vague on "bordeerline" issues so that it doesn't seem fair to come down hammer and tong on this user. ScottyBerg (talk) 17:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC) My observation is that TS seems interested in keeping the battle ground alive. I have no idea why. I think it would be easier for others to move on, if TS were not jumping on every comment to a notice board as a violation of the topic ban, regardless of the content or context of the comment. I think a warning to TS to be more circumspect in his enforcement attempts would be a better outcome of this filing. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 18:38, 27 October 2010 (UTC) It's worth noting that the "no quarter asked or given" approach is being applied to some editors (e.g., WMC and Marknutley) but not others (e.g., Cla68). So let's drop the high-minded language about "keeping the battle ground alive" and admit the blocks are basically arbitrary, eh? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:44, 27 October 2010 (UTC) my comment is only regarding my observations of TS's actions. I have no additional comment on the other actions taken regarding the topic bans of folks from CC. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 19:34, 27 October 2010 (UTC) Perhaps, but in my comment above I said that parties need to be forewarned before sanctions are taken. If notice is not necessary, and if the feeling is that one indeed must come down hammer and tong on topic banned editors engaged in misdeeds, then a block on Cla68 would be warranted. I'm not advocating that, as I think this overzealousness that we're seeing with WMC threatens to make Misplaced Pages into a laughingstock. ScottyBerg (talk) 19:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Cla68 This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. I'm just not seeing any violation here. Cla68 was a named party in a request for clarification, a request he responded to. Maybe the responses weren't as civil as could be desired, but I'm not comfortable ruling this as a violation of the topic ban, since it was on an ArbCom page as a listed party to a request for clarification concerning the case that resulted in the editor's topic ban. Courcelles 12:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Comment: I agree with this assessment by Courcelles (talk · contribs). Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 12:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC) I'm on the fence about this one. While we do need to send a strong message to parties to knock it off, I don't think the evidence above makes a strong case for applying sanctions. If somebody else presents more solid evidence I may be swayed, but for now I don't see the need to issue a block. The Wordsmith 12:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC) ArbCom is perfectly able to maintain order on its own pages if it so desires. I don't see a need for us to intervene here. T. Canens (talk) 12:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Agree with T. Canens; we don't need to take any action here. PhilKnight (talk) 14:15, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Although I believe that the diffs presented warrant sanctions, I also agree with the admins above that it is for the arbitration committee or its clerks to make that decision. CIreland (talk) 21:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

No action taken.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Cla68

User requesting enforcement: TS 11:03, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Cla68 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate_change#Climate_change:_discretionary_sanctions; Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Climate_change#Cla68_topic-banned

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

12:56, 24 October 2010 Makes comment at Request for Clarification attacking another topic-banned editor. Continued battlefield conduct.
13:31, 24 October 2010 Comments at an arbitration enforcement request about another topic-banned editor. Introduces a grievance concerning an earlier discussion on climate change in which he was not an involved party. Continued battlefield conduct (see Finding 18, "Cla68's battlefield conduct".) Boundary-testing his topic ban.
05:12, 26 October 2010 Makes comment at Request for Clarification attacking the starter of the thread and excusing an earlier attack by saying "me and the others you mention were invited here by the filing party".
10:05, 26 October 2010 In reply to warning about continued involvement from Tony Sidaway (filer of this request), accuses that editor of "bad faith efforts to try to draw me back into the CC dispute so you can use it to criticize me...No one has caused more unnecessary drama since the CC case closed than you." Continued battlefield behavior and assumptions of bad faith.
10:12, 26 October 2010 Acknowledges arbitrator Carcharoth's advice but at same time accuses Tony Sidaway of "baiting" him. Continued battlefield behavior and assumptions of bad faith.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

13:31, 24 October 2010 Informed of topic ban and discretionary sanctions by Dougweller (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), the arbitration clerk who closed the case.
00:25, 24 October 2010 Formal notification Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs) of Request for Clarification following concerns about ongoing boundary-testing by topic-banned editors.
09:57, 26 October 2010 Warning on continued skirting of topic ban, from Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): "We really mean it" block if necessary for the enforcement of the topic ban.; Warning about continued assumptions of bad faith and other battlefield conduct.; Warning of discretionary sanctions.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: See arbitrators' comments at the Request for Clarification I filed on the continued boundary testing in the topic ban. Cla68 was one of about a dozen topic-banned editors affected by the Request for Clarification.; See also community sentiment expressed at WP:AN on a thread about continued battlefield conduct and skirting the topic ban.; I find Cla68's continued editing of his essay Misplaced Pages:Activist, which seems to amount to a psychological description of fellow topic-banned editor User:William M. Connolley, concerning, but that could just be me. During his recent involvement in the climate change topic area, Cla68 referred to a bruising encounter at Talk:Global warming during his early days as an editor, and I worry that he may have developed a personal obsession with him.; Filer, subject and many of the admins are in three different timezones throughout the globe so expect slow response times.; I've fixed the order of the diffs (not that I can see that it matters). I'd like to refer the uninvolved admins to Principle 6 of the arbitration, "Casting aspersions." This was an ongoing and very corrosive feature of the topic area prior to the arbitration.; ATren is also a topic-banned editor.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: 11:04, 26 October 2010

Discussion concerning Cla68

Statement by Cla68

For some reason, Tony Sidaway put the diffs out of time order above. I'll leave it up to you to decide why he might do that. Did you also notice that he tries to say that my editing an essay is somehow tied to this? Anyway....

Besides this exchange on my talk page, I have honored my topic ban. I removed all the CC articles from my watchlist. Out of the blue, however, on 24 October, Tony Sidaway left this notification on my talk page. Notifications, as we know, are customarily open invitations for interested editors to observe and comment on a proposed action. Following up on the notification, I commented on the topic under discussion, the diff of which Tony has placed out of time order above. I understood at that time that dispute resolution about an arbcom decision is ok on arbcom case pages, even on topic banned editors because arbcom was the body which had imposed the sanction in the first place.

Soon after, Tony started an enforcement action on Marknutley, up above here. I was genuinely curious as to whether it was allowable for topic banned editors to participate in dispute resolution discussions involving other editors invoved with the CC articles. The reason I was curious, is because I had observed Tony make some false accusations against ATren in an WP:AN thread, and then had refused to withdraw the accusations when both ATren and WMC had told him he was badly mistaken. I wondered, in that case, if it was ok for other topic banned editors to get involved to try to make sure that the allegations were withdrawn. So, I asked for clarification, and amplified my reason in the diff that Tony Sidaway placed out of time order above.

After TenofAllTrades criticized me and others for participating in the thread, I pointed out to him that Tony had invited us to do so. Judging by Tony's comments above and on my talk page, Tony apparently took exception to this. In my response to Tony's criticism, I gave him some honest, forthright criticism in return, and offered to help him expand and improve any non-CC articles. I then replied to Carcharoth on the clarification page, admitting that I was having trouble taking his advice not to respond to Tony's provocations on my talk page.

So, none of my comments have been outside of the ArbCom pages, my own talk page, or Tony's page (I crossposted my response). Tony appears to be trying to escalate the dispute, for reasons I can only speculate at. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be the only dispute that Tony has tried to escalate recently (see below and recent threads at AN). Perhaps a prohibition on both of us interacting with each other might be in order? I would gladly accept that, as all of this has taken me away from work I was busy doing on an article that me and another editor are trying to get ready for Featured Article nomination. Cla68 (talk) 12:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Cla68

I would like to make one comment here: I have not touched the CC topic area in months, nor have I initiated interaction with any editors with whom I've had conflict, yet TS has placed three notifications on my talk page in the last week . Others have received similar notifications for issues not involving them, including Cla68. How are we supposed to detach when Tony keeps drawing us back in for no reason? The AE clarification was so vaguely worded by Tony that I honestly had no idea if I should respond. He also notified a dozen other editors of that vague request (see diffs here), most of whom are uninvolved.

Tony is the one stirring the pot here. He is overreacting to minor (or even non-existent) issues, drawing people like Cla68 and other back in. And now he is reporting Cla68 for responding! I am asking the admins/arbs involved in this enforcement to please remove Tony from what appears to be his self-appointed role as enforcer of these sanctions. This will be my last comment here. ATren (talk) 12:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I find the evidence of continuing battlefield conduct particularly strong, but if two uninvolved administrators assess this as a non-infringement and none is going to firmly support the claim of infringement I'll leave it there. --TS 12:32, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Cla68's comments cited by TS are not optimal, but I think that this request is premature. Parties to the decision need to be asked to desist before something like this is initiated, and also I feel that the decision itself was vague on "bordeerline" issues so that it doesn't seem fair to come down hammer and tong on this user. ScottyBerg (talk) 17:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

My observation is that TS seems interested in keeping the battle ground alive. I have no idea why. I think it would be easier for others to move on, if TS were not jumping on every comment to a notice board as a violation of the topic ban, regardless of the content or context of the comment. I think a warning to TS to be more circumspect in his enforcement attempts would be a better outcome of this filing. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 18:38, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the "no quarter asked or given" approach is being applied to some editors (e.g., WMC and Marknutley) but not others (e.g., Cla68). So let's drop the high-minded language about "keeping the battle ground alive" and admit the blocks are basically arbitrary, eh? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:44, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

my comment is only regarding my observations of TS's actions. I have no additional comment on the other actions taken regarding the topic bans of folks from CC. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 19:34, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps, but in my comment above I said that parties need to be forewarned before sanctions are taken. If notice is not necessary, and if the feeling is that one indeed must come down hammer and tong on topic banned editors engaged in misdeeds, then a block on Cla68 would be warranted. I'm not advocating that, as I think this overzealousness that we're seeing with WMC threatens to make Misplaced Pages into a laughingstock. ScottyBerg (talk) 19:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Cla68

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I'm just not seeing any violation here. Cla68 was a named party in a request for clarification, a request he responded to. Maybe the responses weren't as civil as could be desired, but I'm not comfortable ruling this as a violation of the topic ban, since it was on an ArbCom page as a listed party to a request for clarification concerning the case that resulted in the editor's topic ban. Courcelles 12:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Comment: I agree with this assessment by Courcelles (talk · contribs). Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 12:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm on the fence about this one. While we do need to send a strong message to parties to knock it off, I don't think the evidence above makes a strong case for applying sanctions. If somebody else presents more solid evidence I may be swayed, but for now I don't see the need to issue a block. The Wordsmith 12:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
ArbCom is perfectly able to maintain order on its own pages if it so desires. I don't see a need for us to intervene here. T. Canens (talk) 12:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Agree with T. Canens; we don't need to take any action here. PhilKnight (talk) 14:15, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Although I believe that the diffs presented warrant sanctions, I also agree with the admins above that it is for the arbitration committee or its clerks to make that decision. CIreland (talk) 21:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by SonofSetanta

Denied. The enforcement action was proper.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED). Appealing user SonofSetanta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction being appealed As above Administrator imposing the sanction Courcelles (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Notification of that administrator Statement by SonofSetanta I don't understand why I alone have been banned when it is obvious there was some sort of shennanigan going on with two users against one. I didn't think I was disrupting anything by asking people to have a discussion about the item. I would also appeal to Courcelles to look again at the article and note that a user called Domer48Fenian immediately went to the page and reverted the content again. I believe this is called "edit warring" That makes three users in the last 24 hours who have reverted what I've put in. Can it also be explained to me if the Ulster Defence Regiment page is a private article or am I allowed to edit it? Sorry if I've made mistakes doing this form. I don't really understand how to operate the template system. All I wanted to do when joining was do some good. I thought by doing just a little on this article I could learn how to make changes and let Misplaced Pages benefit from my knowledge. I actually don't think I will edit Misplaced Pages again. There's no point because I've learned that my input will be deleted - why I have no idea. I've had a proper sickening by all of this but it would be nice to see my predicament acknowledged and to find an explanation as to why so many of the other members are against me and accusing me of being (or pretending to be) someone else. Statement by Courcelles I don't have much to say, the editor was informed of the 1RR restriction on Troubles articles five days ago, and the history clearly shows three reverts in just 68 minutes. The discussion that lead to this block is still on this page, further up. Courcelles 12:57, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Statement by One Night In Hackney Please reject this out of hand. The appeal is full of so many self-serving falsehoods and deliberate misrepresentations it can only be described as a tissue of lies. "I don't understand why I alone have been banned when it is obvious there was some sort of shennanigan going on with two users against one" - wrong. There is revert one, which was reverted by me, then reverted by SonofSetanta. So it does not matter whether this subsequent revert is made by Mo ainm or not, SonofSetanta breached 1RR the second he reverted my edit, when it was not "two users against one". He has already been told by Mo ainm on the talk page this was not the case, but apparently "That's not how I saw it" (and I won't bother to address the false claims in the rest of that diff, otherwise my post here will turn into War and Peace), obviously he has trouble with facts...... "I didn't think I was disrupting anything by asking people to have a discussion about the item" - laughable. This refers to this diff. There were already sections for discussion at Talk:Ulster Defence Regiment#Information deleted without discussion. (last post in it by me on 22 October) and Talk:Ulster Defence Regiment#MOD reference used in the lead (posted by me on 22 October, first post by SonofSetanta at 14:25, 25 October 2010, after he had reverted the article three times. I took part in the new discussion he started too, this was ignored and he reverted anyway. As you can see, I and other editors are taking part in discussions or starting them, but these discussions are being ignored in favour of a "don't listen to them and start a new thread asking for discussion then revert" approach. SonofSetanta is not discussing, and certainly isn't listening. "There's no point because I've learned that my input will be deleted" - that's funny, I have the exact same feeling! Let's take an in-depth look at two diffs that show the total changes I have attempted to make to the article shall we? I say "attempted" because SonofSetanta constantly reverts my improvements back to his preferred version... Diff 1 (3 edits with no intermediate edits by others) I removed an unsourced claim from the lead that SonofSetanta had just added. I removed a needless "According to Major John Potter", something which SonofSetanta is supposedly in agreement with, so don't ask why I'm not allowed to make that change I removed some unsourced information about "George Lapsley", this has previously been discussed at Talk:Ulster Defence Regiment/Archive 3#Non notable members in a roundabout way. The information on Lapsley isn't in the books by Ryder or Potter (which are the only two reliable sources you'd expect to find him in), apparently there's some mention of him in Gamble's book but from what I've seen it doesn't source what was in the article. The whole part about Lapsley is original research, unless a reliable source has said he is an example of the type of person that joined the UDR you can't just pluck him out of thin air and include him, as noted in the discussion section linked to. I removed an inappropriate embedded HTML link to Wathgill. I removed the "Irish Freedom Fighters" from a section dealing with (in that particular part of the section) alleged collusion with republicans. The source doesn't say they are republican and as I've said in my summary and on the talk page it can't be assumed due to their name as that exact name has been used by loyalists. As I've also explained on the talk page I didn't leave it in somewhere else as it's just a pointless "UDR member alleged his weapon was stolen" story that's redundant to existing text. I changed "Loyalist" to "loyalist", since it is not a proper noun. I removed "(no exact figure)", since that is only in there due to someone erroneously copying and pasting notes from a book I posted at Talk:Ulster Defence Regiment/Archive 2#For inclusion. I removed "]" since that is not a reference. I removed a section on sniper attacks, which was in a section tagged as original research over a year ago, a tag removed by SonofSetanta. The source does not mention the UDR once, thus making it original research. Echo Company by Ronnie Gamble is a self-published source and wholly unacceptable for claims about living people per policy, there's a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 21#Reliable source about it, and various discussions in the UDR talk page archives. The removal of ] was an error on my part, one fixed by Mo ainm I removed redundant "Deleted image removed" code I removed a link to a tripod hosted site Where I deemed it necessary, I explained why I had done those things on the talk page. Diff 2 (8 edits with no intermediate edits by others) I removed a link from a quote, Royal Ulster Constabulary is still linked elsewhere in the article. I moved "R.U.C." outside a quote and changed it to RUC while maintaining context, in order to maintain uniformity over the presentation of acronyms. I changed "British Government" to "British government" since it is not a proper noun. I added a {{who}} template after "Some politicans". I removed what I believe to be an erroneous "the" before "Royal Assent". I removed "the" from "the 18 February 1970", per the MOS. I removed the names of the first two recruits, as I considered they added little value to the article. I corrected a spelling mistake, "were" to "where". I removed what I felt was a redundant "he says" as it followed on from the previous sentence. I removed a tautalogy, "and remained" is redundant to "throughout the troubles". I added a {{huh}} template, as I don't see how "preference for promotion and allocation of appointments was being given to Catholics" is "explained by the fact that the local Territorial Army company of Royal Irish Fusiliers had been disbanded in 1968 and the vast majority of its members had joined up en-masse". That makes no sense at all to me... I removed a peacockesque "prominent" and reworded the sentence slightly. I changed "Army" to "army" since the former is not a proper noun, unlike "British Army". I removed redundant "Deleted image removed" code. I removed "now" since that was the term applied at the time as well, "now" implies a change over time. I changed "the province" to "Northern Ireland", to avoid slang usage (more than once). I changed "Loyalist" to "loyalist" since the former is not a proper noun (more than once). I removed a tautology, "widely" is redundant to "throughout its ranks". I corrected a spelling mistake, "where" to "were" and changed the scare-quoted lost to simply read "allegedly lost". I added the apparently missing word "groups" and a missing full stop. I removed a needless link to "1 January" I changed "'''List''' - ]<nowiki>" to <nowiki>"{{seealso\|Attacks on the Ulster Defence Regiment}}" and moved it to the appropriate place. Now I don't even see anything there that's particularly in need of discussion, anyone else? To me it all looks like non-controversial copyediting and tidying, with a couple of maintenance template additions. Other than the removal of the tripod hosted site, every single change you see in those two diffs has been repeatedly reverted by SonofSetanta. His ownership of the article is breathtaking, making whatever changes he feels like then reverting any changes made by other people and demanding they take part in discussions.....discussions that he ignores completely! He was aware of 1RR prior to being warned yet chose to make 3 reverts in less than an hour while ignoring open discussions. Without a commitment to refrain from edit warring in future I see no reason why this appeal should be successful, all I see is a lot of WP:NOTTHEM most of which isn't even true as I have shown. The only person responsible for SonofSetanta's current situation is SonofSetanta. On a side-note, since I have had to spend valuable time explaining all this for this frivolous appeal, the sockpuppet report is slightly delayed. It will be finished by tomorrow. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 12:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Statement by Domer48 One Night In Hackney has outlined the issue with the edits in their usual comprehensive manner, and leaves little more to add other than a simple endorsement. A cursory glance at the article talk page will quickly dispel the notion that they attempted to engage in any meaningful discussion. The advice offered was either ignored or rejected by this editor. They then moved the discussion from forum to forum in the mistaken belief they could drum up some support with a number of unfounded accusations, which can be viewed here,here, here, here and the latest here. They were offered some advice here on their forum shopping, and despite this they then went to an additional two forums. I raised this issue with them here where I raised some questions to the validity of their comments but was rebuffed. Their sole contribution to date has been in my opinion one of creating needless drama, and feign ignorance, while at the same time knowledgeable enough to find forums/platforms to peddle their supposed victim hood. If as has been suggested, this is a sockpuppet of a disruptive editor, my tone will be more than justified.--Domer48_'fenian' 17:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 3) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by SonofSetanta Result of the appeal by SonofSetanta This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.* Appeal denied. The other editors who commented here are advised that the reply by Courcelles was clearly sufficient, and there is no purpose in wasting your time writing lengthy rebuttals to obviously hopeless cases. SonofSetanta is advised that arbitration remedies are enforced literally and rigorously. Arguing about whether they are good is useless; that question is not open. Looie496 (talk) 22:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Denied. The enforcement action was proper.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: SonofSetanta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction being appealed: As above

Administrator imposing the sanction: Courcelles (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Statement by SonofSetanta

I don't understand why I alone have been banned when it is obvious there was some sort of shennanigan going on with two users against one. I didn't think I was disrupting anything by asking people to have a discussion about the item. I would also appeal to Courcelles to look again at the article and note that a user called Domer48Fenian immediately went to the page and reverted the content again. I believe this is called "edit warring" That makes three users in the last 24 hours who have reverted what I've put in.

Can it also be explained to me if the Ulster Defence Regiment page is a private article or am I allowed to edit it?

Sorry if I've made mistakes doing this form. I don't really understand how to operate the template system.

All I wanted to do when joining was do some good. I thought by doing just a little on this article I could learn how to make changes and let Misplaced Pages benefit from my knowledge. I actually don't think I will edit Misplaced Pages again. There's no point because I've learned that my input will be deleted - why I have no idea. I've had a proper sickening by all of this but it would be nice to see my predicament acknowledged and to find an explanation as to why so many of the other members are against me and accusing me of being (or pretending to be) someone else.

Statement by Courcelles

I don't have much to say, the editor was informed of the 1RR restriction on Troubles articles five days ago, and the history clearly shows three reverts in just 68 minutes. The discussion that lead to this block is still on this page, further up. Courcelles 12:57, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Statement by One Night In Hackney

Please reject this out of hand. The appeal is full of so many self-serving falsehoods and deliberate misrepresentations it can only be described as a tissue of lies.

"I don't understand why I alone have been banned when it is obvious there was some sort of shennanigan going on with two users against one" - wrong. There is revert one, which was reverted by me, then reverted by SonofSetanta. So it does not matter whether this subsequent revert is made by Mo ainm or not, SonofSetanta breached 1RR the second he reverted my edit, when it was not "two users against one". He has already been told by Mo ainm on the talk page this was not the case, but apparently "That's not how I saw it" (and I won't bother to address the false claims in the rest of that diff, otherwise my post here will turn into War and Peace), obviously he has trouble with facts......

"I didn't think I was disrupting anything by asking people to have a discussion about the item" - laughable. This refers to this diff. There were already sections for discussion at Talk:Ulster Defence Regiment#Information deleted without discussion. (last post in it by me on 22 October) and Talk:Ulster Defence Regiment#MOD reference used in the lead (posted by me on 22 October, first post by SonofSetanta at 14:25, 25 October 2010, *after* he had reverted the article three times. I took part in the new discussion he started too, this was ignored and he reverted anyway. As you can see, I and other editors are taking part in discussions or starting them, but these discussions are being ignored in favour of a "don't listen to them and start a new thread asking for discussion then revert" approach. SonofSetanta is not discussing, and certainly isn't listening.

"There's no point because I've learned that my input will be deleted" - that's funny, I have the exact same feeling! Let's take an in-depth look at two diffs that show the total changes I have attempted to make to the article shall we? I say "attempted" because SonofSetanta constantly reverts my improvements back to his preferred version...

Diff 1 (3 edits with no intermediate edits by others)
- I removed an unsourced claim from the lead that SonofSetanta had just added.
- I removed a needless "According to Major John Potter", something which SonofSetanta is supposedly in agreement with, so don't ask why I'm not allowed to make that change
- I removed some unsourced information about "George Lapsley", this has previously been discussed at Talk:Ulster Defence Regiment/Archive 3#Non notable members in a roundabout way. The information on Lapsley isn't in the books by Ryder or Potter (which are the only two reliable sources you'd expect to find him in), apparently there's some mention of him in Gamble's book but from what I've seen it doesn't source what was in the article. The whole part about Lapsley is original research, unless a reliable source has said he is an example of the type of person that joined the UDR you can't just pluck him out of thin air and include him, as noted in the discussion section linked to.
- I removed an inappropriate embedded HTML link to Wathgill.
- I removed the "Irish Freedom Fighters" from a section dealing with (in that particular part of the section) alleged collusion with republicans. The source doesn't say they are republican and as I've said in my summary and on the talk page it can't be assumed due to their name as that exact name has been used by loyalists. As I've also explained on the talk page I didn't leave it in somewhere else as it's just a pointless "UDR member alleged his weapon was stolen" story that's redundant to existing text.
- I changed "Loyalist" to "loyalist", since it is not a proper noun.
- I removed "(no exact figure)", since that is only in there due to someone erroneously copying and pasting notes from a book I posted at Talk:Ulster Defence Regiment/Archive 2#For inclusion.
- I removed "]" since that is not a reference.
- I removed a section on sniper attacks, which was in a section tagged as original research over a year ago, a tag removed by SonofSetanta. The source does not mention the UDR once, thus making it original research. Echo Company by Ronnie Gamble is a self-published source and wholly unacceptable for claims about living people per policy, there's a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 21#Reliable source about it, and various discussions in the UDR talk page archives.
- The removal of ] was an error on my part, one fixed by Mo ainm
- I removed redundant "Deleted image removed" code
- I removed a link to a tripod hosted site

Where I deemed it necessary, I explained why I had done those things on the talk page.

Diff 2 (8 edits with no intermediate edits by others)
- I removed a link from a quote, Royal Ulster Constabulary is still linked elsewhere in the article.
- I moved "R.U.C." outside a quote and changed it to RUC while maintaining context, in order to maintain uniformity over the presentation of acronyms.
- I changed "British Government" to "British government" since it is not a proper noun.
- I added a {{who}} template after "Some politicans".
- I removed what I believe to be an erroneous "the" before "Royal Assent".
- I removed "the" from "the 18 February 1970", per the MOS.
- I removed the names of the first two recruits, as I considered they added little value to the article.
- I corrected a spelling mistake, "were" to "where".
- I removed what I felt was a redundant "he says" as it followed on from the previous sentence.
- I removed a tautalogy, "and remained" is redundant to "throughout the troubles".
- I added a {{huh}} template, as I don't see how "preference for promotion and allocation of appointments was being given to Catholics" is "explained by the fact that the local Territorial Army company of Royal Irish Fusiliers had been disbanded in 1968 and the vast majority of its members had joined up en-masse". That makes no sense at all to me...
- I removed a peacockesque "prominent" and reworded the sentence slightly.
- I changed "Army" to "army" since the former is not a proper noun, unlike "British Army".
- I removed redundant "Deleted image removed" code.
- I removed "now" since that was the term applied at the time as well, "now" implies a change over time.
- I changed "the province" to "Northern Ireland", to avoid slang usage (more than once).
- I changed "Loyalist" to "loyalist" since the former is not a proper noun (more than once).
- I removed a tautology, "widely" is redundant to "throughout its ranks".
- I corrected a spelling mistake, "where" to "were" and changed the scare-quoted lost to simply read "allegedly lost".
- I added the apparently missing word "groups" and a missing full stop.
- I removed a needless link to "1 January"
- I changed "*'''List''' - ]<nowiki>" to <nowiki>"{{seealso|Attacks on the Ulster Defence Regiment}}" and moved it to the appropriate place.

Now I don't even see anything there that's particularly in need of discussion, anyone else? To me it all looks like non-controversial copyediting and tidying, with a couple of maintenance template additions.

Other than the removal of the tripod hosted site, every single change you see in those two diffs has been repeatedly reverted by SonofSetanta. His ownership of the article is breathtaking, making whatever changes he feels like then reverting any changes made by other people and demanding they take part in discussions.....discussions that he ignores completely!

He was aware of 1RR prior to being warned yet chose to make 3 reverts in less than an hour while ignoring open discussions. Without a commitment to refrain from edit warring in future I see no reason why this appeal should be successful, all I see is a lot of WP:NOTTHEM most of which isn't even true as I have shown. The only person responsible for SonofSetanta's current situation is SonofSetanta.

On a side-note, since I have had to spend valuable time explaining all this for this frivolous appeal, the sockpuppet report is slightly delayed. It will be finished by tomorrow. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 12:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Domer48

One Night In Hackney has outlined the issue with the edits in their usual comprehensive manner, and leaves little more to add other than a simple endorsement. A cursory glance at the article talk page will quickly dispel the notion that they attempted to engage in any meaningful discussion. The advice offered was either ignored or rejected by this editor. They then moved the discussion from forum to forum in the mistaken belief they could drum up some support with a number of unfounded accusations, which can be viewed here,here, here, here and the latest here.

They were offered some advice here on their forum shopping, and despite this they then went to an additional two forums. I raised this issue with them here where I raised some questions to the validity of their comments but was rebuffed. Their sole contribution to date has been in my opinion one of creating needless drama, and feign ignorance, while at the same time knowledgeable enough to find forums/platforms to peddle their supposed victim hood. If as has been suggested, this is a sockpuppet of a disruptive editor, my tone will be more than justified.--Domer48_'fenian' 17:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 3)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by SonofSetanta

Result of the appeal by SonofSetanta

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Appeal denied. The other editors who commented here are advised that the reply by Courcelles was clearly sufficient, and there is no purpose in wasting your time writing lengthy rebuttals to obviously hopeless cases. SonofSetanta is advised that arbitration remedies are enforced literally and rigorously. Arguing about whether they are good is useless; that question is not open. Looie496 (talk) 22:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Brews ohare

Blocked for one week.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Request concerning Brews ohare User requesting enforcement Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Brews ohare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy that this user violated Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Speed of light#Motions (Motion 6). See also Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive70#Brews ohare, where Brews was admonished for similar violations, but was not blocked because the violation was deemed to be too old by the time discussion was closed. Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it (Self evident, but see comment, which has more) Oliver Heavyside, English engineer/physicist who did a lot work in the early days of electromagnetism See also the additional evidence by FizixFighter below. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Done when moving the thread to AN/I Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) Indef block. This has gone long enough. Additional comments by editor filing complaint When I saw Brews ohare edit Talk:Global warming (see ) I thought, oh crap not again, why doesn't he display some level of clue. I loaded up WP:AE, started filing the request, and then said "fuck it" I'm tired of being here every two weeks, and some will argue it's in the gray zone, etc. Then earlier today, Brews posted several times on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Physics (see , , , , ). So again I loaded up WP:AE and started filing a request. Then I thought "Do I really want another 4 weeks long wikilawyering mess about Brews not understanding the bounds of his ban, or that he wasn't "properly warned" or some other fine-print related argument. So I thought I'd defuse the whole thing instead by sending it to WP:ANI (, , ). After all, he reported a very subtle form of vandalism, so I thought a little IARing with regards to usual arbcom rules which mandates a total, complete and utter ban, no exceptions from the topic. However Brews started talking about complaining content issues once again (see , gets warned , then wikilawyers about it ). Brews just doesn't get it, and this time there is no possible "but I didn't know" or "but I thought this wasn't covered by the ban" or whatever "I didn't mean it that way" defense. If we give an inch per WP:AGF (like I just did), he'll take a mile (like he just did). I'm really fucking tired of this crap. Indef block him. Or alternatively block him for the rest of his ban. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Edit: And on top of that, he recently edited Oliver Heaviside (), an article on a famous English physicist who did a lot of pioneering work in the early days of electromagnetism. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning Brews ohare Statement by Brews ohare Comments by others about the request concerning Brews ohare There are a few other edits in recent days where Brews tested the limits of the topic ban. See and . In the first, the discussion at WP:NOR/N is a physics-related discussion - editors are talking about the Lorentz force and Maxwell equations and sources related to them. The second is arguably be the grey area since it is the biography article for Heaviside (and after an ec I see that Headbomb has also mentioned this edit). But the section in which Brews edited is almost exclusively about Heaviside's innovations in physics and electromagnetic theory. It appears like a case of the Camel's nose, where he was able to push up against the boundaries of his topic ban in these isolated instances far from the view of those aware of his ban, and then, since those edits didn't lead to any repercussion, he pushed further by editting on WP:PHYS. --FyzixFighter (talk) 17:47, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Brews clearly violated the topic ban and that will then lead to sanctions. That said, this doesn't mean that Beeblebrox's comments are appropriate. Brews made a few technical violations of the topic ban, but his edits weren't problematic in their own right. We should always WP:AGF as to the motivations of infractions, unless the edits themselves compel you to do otherwise. In this case the edits force you to conclude that Brews violated the topic ban, so no WP:AGF in this respect. However, Brews is very passionate about the subject and the force attracting him back to the topic has lead him to violate the topic ban in a formal way. Comments like: "...a repeat offender who spends all his time trying to find the edges of his various bans so he can sneak around them", are unnecessary, insulting, and have the potential of causing more problems in the future. Count Iblis (talk) 14:52, 27 October 2010 (UTC) But they also happen to be 100% true. Just saying. 71.139.16.195 (talk) 04:31, 28 October 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Brews ohare This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Blocked for one week before I saw this report. I think the maximum block length is now 1 year under the enforcement provisions, so the next block will probably be at least 2 weeks. T. Canens (talk) 17:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Seriously? One week? For a repeat offender who spends all his time trying to find the edges of his various bans so he can sneak around them? The next block should be a severe escalation, not just two weeks. How long are we expected hold Brews' hand and pretend he isn't voluntarily breaking his topic ban again and again? Beeblebrox (talk) 19:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC) "At least" is the keyword here... T. Canens (talk) 03:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC) Back again? Given his history, he's fresh off probation, owner of topic bans and appears to have no intention of changing. I started writing an Arbcom request to extend his probation another year but knew the uproar that would ensue and have been too busy with work. I would favor that action being taken. Dealing with Brews is seriously draining on anyone who gets involved. --WGFinley (talk) 16:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Blocked for one week.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Brews ohare

User requesting enforcement: Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Brews ohare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Speed of light#Motions (Motion 6). See also Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive70#Brews ohare, where Brews was admonished for similar violations, but was not blocked because the violation was deemed to be too old by the time discussion was closed.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

(Self evident, but see comment, which has more)
Oliver Heavyside, English engineer/physicist who did a lot work in the early days of electromagnetism
See also the additional evidence by FizixFighter below.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Done when moving the thread to AN/I

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Indef block. This has gone long enough.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

When I saw Brews ohare edit Talk:Global warming (see ) I thought, oh crap not again, why doesn't he display some level of clue. I loaded up WP:AE, started filing the request, and then said "fuck it" I'm tired of being here every two weeks, and some will argue it's in the gray zone, etc. Then earlier today, Brews posted several times on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Physics (see , , , , ). So again I loaded up WP:AE and started filing a request. Then I thought "Do I really want another 4 weeks long wikilawyering mess about Brews not understanding the bounds of his ban, or that he wasn't "properly warned" or some other fine-print related argument. So I thought I'd defuse the whole thing instead by sending it to WP:ANI (, , ). After all, he reported a very subtle form of vandalism, so I thought a little IARing with regards to usual arbcom rules which mandates a total, complete and utter ban, no exceptions from the topic.

However Brews started talking about complaining content issues once again (see , gets warned , then wikilawyers about it ).

Brews just doesn't get it, and this time there is no possible "but I didn't know" or "but I thought this wasn't covered by the ban" or whatever "I didn't mean it that way" defense. If we give an inch per WP:AGF (like I just did), he'll take a mile (like he just did). I'm really fucking tired of this crap. Indef block him. Or alternatively block him for the rest of his ban. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit: And on top of that, he recently edited Oliver Heaviside (), an article on a famous English physicist who did a lot of pioneering work in the early days of electromagnetism. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Brews ohare

Statement by Brews ohare

Comments by others about the request concerning Brews ohare

There are a few other edits in recent days where Brews tested the limits of the topic ban. See and . In the first, the discussion at WP:NOR/N is a physics-related discussion - editors are talking about the Lorentz force and Maxwell equations and sources related to them. The second is arguably be the grey area since it is the biography article for Heaviside (and after an ec I see that Headbomb has also mentioned this edit). But the section in which Brews edited is almost exclusively about Heaviside's innovations in physics and electromagnetic theory. It appears like a case of the Camel's nose, where he was able to push up against the boundaries of his topic ban in these isolated instances far from the view of those aware of his ban, and then, since those edits didn't lead to any repercussion, he pushed further by editting on WP:PHYS. --FyzixFighter (talk) 17:47, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Brews clearly violated the topic ban and that will then lead to sanctions. That said, this doesn't mean that Beeblebrox's comments are appropriate. Brews made a few technical violations of the topic ban, but his edits weren't problematic in their own right. We should always WP:AGF as to the motivations of infractions, unless the edits themselves compel you to do otherwise. In this case the edits force you to conclude that Brews violated the topic ban, so no WP:AGF in this respect. However, Brews is very passionate about the subject and the force attracting him back to the topic has lead him to violate the topic ban in a formal way. Comments like: "...a repeat offender who spends all his time trying to find the edges of his various bans so he can sneak around them", are unnecessary, insulting, and have the potential of causing more problems in the future. Count Iblis (talk) 14:52, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

But they also happen to be 100% true. Just saying. 71.139.16.195 (talk) 04:31, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning Brews ohare

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Blocked for one week before I saw this report. I think the maximum block length is now 1 year under the enforcement provisions, so the next block will probably be at least 2 weeks. T. Canens (talk) 17:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Seriously? One week? For a repeat offender who spends all his time trying to find the edges of his various bans so he can sneak around them? The next block should be a severe escalation, not just two weeks. How long are we expected hold Brews' hand and pretend he isn't voluntarily breaking his topic ban again and again? Beeblebrox (talk) 19:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

"At least" is the keyword here... T. Canens (talk) 03:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Back again? Given his history, he's fresh off probation, owner of topic bans and appears to have no intention of changing. I started writing an Arbcom request to extend his probation another year but knew the uproar that would ensue and have been too busy with work. I would favor that action being taken. Dealing with Brews is seriously draining on anyone who gets involved. --WGFinley (talk) 16:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

William M. Connolley

Blocked for two weeks.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
WMC has filed an appeal, below. Please continue discussion of unblocking at that location. Archiving this is purely procedural, so we don't have discussion going in in multiple threads about the same thing. The Wordsmith 21:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning William M. Connolley User requesting enforcement EngineerFromVega (talk) 19:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested William M. Connolley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy that this user violated Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate_change#William_M._Connolley_topic-banned Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it Encouraging others to meatpuppet on his behalf after getting a topic ban for climate change articles. Creating a new section on talk page to bypass the Arbcom ruling and to advocate meatpuppetry. One more. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Warning by Coren (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Warning by EngineerFromVega (talk · contribs) Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) Confirmation that he is to keep well away from the climate change area and to stop encouraging meatpuppetry using his talk page. Additional comments by editor filing complaint As per this edit by Awickert, it is evident that WMC is using his talk page to encourage others to edit climate change articles. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Notified on 26 October 2010 (UTC) Discussion concerning William M. Connolley Statement by William M. Connolley Comments by others about the request concerning William M. Connolley Given that the filer has a grand total of 63 edits (at this time), I have a hard time seeing this as a good faith action. This impression is further reinforced by the fact that his "warning" was this morning, but the youngest listed diff was yesterday. And I can imagine no interpretation by which can be considered "encouraging others to meatpuppet", nor do I see any evidence of meatpuppetry. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Here is WMC's reply . EngineerFromVega (talk) 21:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Re Beeblebrox: Sorry, but you are wrong. "Editors topic-banned by the Committee under this remedy are prohibited (1) from editing articles about Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; (2) from editing biographies of living people associated with Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; and (3) from participating in any Misplaced Pages process relating to those articles." Edits to ones own talk page are not forbidden. A number of Arbs have have suggested that it is better for all topic-banned editors to step away farther from the topic (and I tend to agree), but several have also pointed out that there is no actual violation in such edits. I'm also appalled by the hectic speed. MN at least got a chance to reply. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Both the committee and the community have made it abundantly clear that topic ban is to be interpreted very broadly and blocks are to be used liberally to enforce it. The spirit of the ban is being trampled on Mr. Connolley's talk page. There is no need to discuss with him first as he was a participant in the discussion at the ArbCom noticeboard in which numerous users, admins, and arbitrators made all of this clear. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:47, 26 October 2010 (UTC) "Liberally" does not equal "arbitrarily". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Per my comment above re Cla68, I agree that a block of WMC is premature and excessive, as the issue of what constitutes improper conduct hasn't been determined as of yet. I see that a clarification request is proceeding on that point right now. ScottyBerg (talk) 19:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Clarification has been given again and again. The named users in the topic ban are to completely avoid touching anything even remotely related to CC. Period. Perhaps you missed the recent conversations at the ArbCom noticeboard and the WP:AE where this was clearly stated in those terms by dozens of people, including arbitrators. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC) I've been away for a few days, but all I see on the AE page currently is a request for enforcement against Cla68, and no interest in action being taken against him for actions at least as problematic as what WMC has done. There is also a request for clarification pending and not concluded. ScottyBerg (talk) 20:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC) That's not what the topic ban says - it specifically lists articles, associated talk pages, bios and their talk pages and process pages. It does not list user talk pages. If that's what the ArbCom meant, they could have included it. They were asked about this point, so unless they missed the question, it wasn't an oversight. I think the ban should include user talk pages, but if it doesn't an editor should not be sanctioned for following the rules.--SPhilbrick T 20:15, 26 October 2010 (UTC) MN was found to have violated the topic ban - he edited a Misplaced Pages process thread which related to CC. Tangentially enough that I think he deserved a little slack, but that's a different issue. WMC posted on his talk page, and the topic ban does not prohibit that. "Broadly construed" is not intended to mean it can cover areas not listed in the topic ban, it means no one can edit a weather article, then wikilawyer to say that weather is not climate. "Broadly construed" means the subject of climate is to be broadly construed.--SPhilbrick T 20:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC) By the way, whose sockpuppet is User:EngineerFromVega? My Magic 8 Ball says "open proxy," but it would be interesting to know for certain. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC) -of no one. EngineerFromVega (talk) 21:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC) This block is stupid, because William can still post on his talk page. Nothing would stop William posting some more links to CC articles. As things stand now, we still depend on William to notify us of Scibaby edits on some CC pages. That we can do without William doesn't mean that right now we don't need him. It may take a week or so before enough editors are there to check all the CC articles. Per WP:IAR, William is morally obliged to ignore the fundamentalistic interpretation of the topic ban given by some here and post links to vandalized articles in a discrete way (like on his talk page). Sticking to the topic ban means that he does not revert the acts of vandalisms himself. Count Iblis (talk) 20:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Wrong, wrong wrong. Morally obliged? Do you guys see what we are up against now? The community has spoken, they want this dealt with harshly and they don't want any of this end-run bullshit. I don't know how anyone who has been following this could still honestly claim that they do not see the very clear consensus that all named parties are to completely avoid anything related to CC. Take it to a wider forum or back to ArbCom if you want, I think you will find that there is broad agreement that a hardline approach is warranted. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Unless you're politically well-connected, like Cla68, in which you can continue lobbying for sanctions against other editors while the arbs and admins turn a blind eye. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:47, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Moo said the mob, or at least a small and noisy part of it. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC) If that is going to be the level of discourse here, I will simply state that I have no intention of reversing myself and move on to other matters. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Let's try to raise the level then. As Sphilbrick has pointed out, the topic ban has explicitly listed what kind of pages are off limit - user talk pages are not in that list. In the clarification discussion, Coren carefully distinguished between things editors must not do and things they should not do. All Arbs commenting later agree with this comment. If this distinction has to have any value, then the one that things that must not be done are sanctionable, while things that should not be done are not. You block is neither justified by the original decision nor by the clarification. The sentiment of the community or even ArbCom may well be that the topic ban should have been more encompassing, but fact is that it is not. So your block is unjustified. It's also not preventative (as it does not prevent William from suggesting things on his talk page), but purely punitive. And blocking an editor for an edit in which he points out a BLP violation is really a really really bad idea. As is blindly following suggestions by a likely sock. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC) (e/c)Can you point me to where the Arbs concluded, despite the fact that the topic ban does not mention user talk pages, that talk pages are included? (There are far too many words on this subject, but I can't find that discussion.) I'm amazed that a two week block is being enacted, without a link to anything proscribing such behavior.--SPhilbrick T 21:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC) While the letter of the ban does not specifically indicate user talkpages, the spirit of the ban is that all banned parties should completely back away from the topic area. It doesn't specifically list the Template: or Category: namespaces, either, but if one of the banned users started edit warring over a climate change template, they would be blocked without hesitation. The Wordsmith 21:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Coren specifically said "suggesting" edits is "without breaking the letter of the ruling", and that the ruling would have to be amended if that type of edit should be included. You can't block someone for an action specifically identified by an Arb as not covered. If someone wants to warn an editor and declare that while talk pages were not in the ban, they are now—I'd support a block for a subsequent violation. But not before such a warning.--SPhilbrick T 21:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC) If one carefully reads the comments on the Notification and Clarification pages, you see that the people who argue in favor of the "hardline approach", completely ignore the nature of the problems William was giving notifications too, in fact construing this as being engaged in the topic area in a problematic way, while in fact he was giving notifications of edits that needed to be reverted. He did that a day after the edits were made, so, it was likely it was not noted by anyone at all as a problematic edit. I have to say that if I were running a website like Misplaced Pages and I were the only Admin, I would actually block the people who are dishonest and fight personal disputes instead of seriously contributing to Misplaced Pages. Count Iblis (talk) 21:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC) I was preparing a request of this sort but somebody else beat me to it. None of the reasons given by William M. Connolley and his apologists here come close to excusing his refusal to disengage from the topic. I didn't start the request for clarification arbitrarily; it was primarily from observing his behavior and surmising that others (irrespective of faction) would see him getting away with it and be tempted to push the envelope. This tendency has to be nipped in the bud wherever it is spotted. Having said that I would prefer it if the wider community took the lead in filing enforcement reports. --TS 21:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Reply to Wordsmith's comment below. I am deeply ambivalent about classifying this block as falling within the "wide discretion allowed by the topic ban", when the letter of the ban (which the ArbCom deliberately and unusually chose to specifically scope in their findings) does not include user talk pages. Where administrators are allowed wide discretion is in the application of discretionary sanctions under a separate portion of the remedies. However, the discretionary sanctions require users to be engaged in disruptive or counterproductive behaviour not in the interests of the project (which WMC's edits do not seem to be), and that the user receive a clear warning before a block is applied under those sanctions. What has happened here is that a well-meaning but overzealous administrators has msinterpreted and misapplied the case remedies in a draconian fashion, with the effect of punishing WMC for making an effort to respect the ArbCom's ruling while still contributing positively to the project in his area of expertise. As a further regrettable side effect, this block has rewarded WMC's opponents for stirring up this unnecessary conflict across multiple noticeboards in a way that is well beyond the spirit (and often letter) of their own restrictions. This is a very unfortunate precedent. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:34, 26 October 2010 (UTC) WMC was well aware some time ago that the ban was going to be broadly interpreted and the penalties harsh. I and others told him and the other parties to expect this during the recent conversations at the arbcom noticeboard talk page. He is not supposed to be trying to contribute in his area of expertise. Period. I feel like a broken record here, ArbCom and the wider community have made their feelings clear enough, and WMC and others are choosing to try and find ways around the decision. It has got to stop, and it will be stopped. Again I suggest you ask ArbCom directly if you don't want to take my word for it. There is actually no need to ask the community as that has already been done and the answer was wide support for treating anything that approached the general area of CC harshly. If these opponents you speak of are also violating the ban, please report that here, I am not on anyone's side in this and I'm perfectly willing to block anyone else who is trying to skirt the edges of this ban. My one and only interest here is in putting an end to this drama. Talking for several months didn't work. Warning them not to try and find holes in the ban didn't work. Blocking is all we have left. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC) A way forward (e/c)Furthermore, to Beeblebrox's suggestion "Take it to a wider forum or back to ArbCom if you want", we do not need to take it back to ArbCom because they addressed this specific issue. Coren specifically identified this type of edit as the type one should not do, but is not covered by the ban. One option is to ask for an amendment to the ruling, as Coren suggests, but I believe there's an easier approach. In the very next bullet point (in Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification ) Davies points out The discretionary sanctions regime in this case give administrators great leeway in restoring order and even gives guidance matching conduct to appropriate sanctions. These sanctions may be applied by any uninvolved administrators of their own volition, which means no prior process on any noticeboard is necessary. All that is required before an administrator acts is a "cease and desist" message on the editor's talk page. That's all that is needed. Remove the block, issue a cease and desist, and if it happens again, block.--SPhilbrick T 21:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC) This action doesn't enforce the discretionary sanctions, but the topic ban. In addition to the arbitration decision in which they were told they were topic banned, all topic-banned editors have been treated to the unusually explicit statements of the community (at WP:AN), the arbitration committee (at Request for Clarification) and the uninvolved admins (here in the Mark Nutley case yesterday) saying with one voice: "We Meant It!" --TS 21:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Result concerning William M. Connolley This is cut and dried. The topic ban is to be broadly interpreted, and this edit violates it. I'm off to block Mr. Connolley for the next two weeks. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Generous. I was typing up an opinion to go for the full month the decision allows, this was such a complete and flagrant disregard of the ban. Courcelles 19:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Marknutley just got the same, so I figured we'd use two weeks as a starting point. I'm more than willing to escalate for repeat offenders. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC) I concur with the block reason and the length (since Marknutley got the same it makes a good starting point). FloNight ♥♥♥♥ 19:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC) This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. I'm on the fence about this as well. While WMC should desist from any activities related to climate change, notifying users about vandalism is undoubtedly a good thing. That he posted on his talkpage instead of reverting himself indicates that he intended to comply with at least the letter of the ban. It appears to be a moot point now, but the block does appear to have been within the wide discretion allowed by the topic ban. The Wordsmith 20:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Any block, or action under a block, needs to be clear, and the reasoning explained, so that outsiders like me can review. On the face of it, this looks like punitive BS. ArbCom's ban does not extend to discussing the matter on user talk pages, an issue that was under serious discussion around October 21-22. To my knowledge ArbCom has not clarified that. To reduce the ArbCom decision to OMG don't even think of climate change is an absurd extreme, and would speak poorly of ArbCom if that were their approach to handling contentious topics. If WMC is to be blocked for this action could someone clearly state the applicable sanction, the behavior in question, and how the behavior fits the sanction? - Wikidemon (talk) 02:50, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Blocked for two weeks.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

WMC has filed an appeal, below. Please continue discussion of unblocking at that location. Archiving this is purely procedural, so we don't have discussion going in in multiple threads about the same thing. The Wordsmith 21:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning William M. Connolley

User requesting enforcement: EngineerFromVega (talk) 19:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: William M. Connolley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate_change#William_M._Connolley_topic-banned

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Encouraging others to meatpuppet on his behalf after getting a topic ban for climate change articles.
Creating a new section on talk page to bypass the Arbcom ruling and to advocate meatpuppetry.
One more.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warning by Coren (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
Warning by EngineerFromVega (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Confirmation that he is to keep well away from the climate change area and to stop encouraging meatpuppetry using his talk page.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: As per this edit by Awickert, it is evident that WMC is using his talk page to encourage others to edit climate change articles.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified on 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Discussion concerning William M. Connolley

Statement by William M. Connolley

Comments by others about the request concerning William M. Connolley

Given that the filer has a grand total of 63 edits (at this time), I have a hard time seeing this as a good faith action. This impression is further reinforced by the fact that his "warning" was this morning, but the youngest listed diff was yesterday. And I can imagine no interpretation by which can be considered "encouraging others to meatpuppet", nor do I see any evidence of meatpuppetry. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Here is WMC's reply . EngineerFromVega (talk) 21:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Re Beeblebrox: Sorry, but you are wrong. "Editors topic-banned by the Committee under this remedy are prohibited (1) from editing articles about Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; (2) from editing biographies of living people associated with Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; and (3) from participating in any Misplaced Pages process relating to those articles." Edits to ones own talk page are not forbidden. A number of Arbs have have suggested that it is better for all topic-banned editors to step away farther from the topic (and I tend to agree), but several have also pointed out that there is no actual violation in such edits. I'm also appalled by the hectic speed. MN at least got a chance to reply. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Both the committee and the community have made it abundantly clear that topic ban is to be interpreted very broadly and blocks are to be used liberally to enforce it. The spirit of the ban is being trampled on Mr. Connolley's talk page. There is no need to discuss with him first as he was a participant in the discussion at the ArbCom noticeboard in which numerous users, admins, and arbitrators made all of this clear. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:47, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

"Liberally" does not equal "arbitrarily". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Per my comment above re Cla68, I agree that a block of WMC is premature and excessive, as the issue of what constitutes improper conduct hasn't been determined as of yet. I see that a clarification request is proceeding on that point right now. ScottyBerg (talk) 19:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Clarification has been given again and again. The named users in the topic ban are to completely avoid touching anything even remotely related to CC. Period. Perhaps you missed the recent conversations at the ArbCom noticeboard and the WP:AE where this was clearly stated in those terms by dozens of people, including arbitrators. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I've been away for a few days, but all I see on the AE page currently is a request for enforcement against Cla68, and no interest in action being taken against him for actions at least as problematic as what WMC has done. There is also a request for clarification pending and not concluded. ScottyBerg (talk) 20:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

That's not what the topic ban says - it specifically lists articles, associated talk pages, bios and their talk pages and process pages. It does not list user talk pages. If that's what the ArbCom meant, they could have included it. They were asked about this point, so unless they missed the question, it wasn't an oversight. I think the ban should include user talk pages, but if it doesn't an editor should not be sanctioned for following the rules.--SPhilbrick T 20:15, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

MN was found to have violated the topic ban - he edited a Misplaced Pages process thread which related to CC. Tangentially enough that I think he deserved a little slack, but that's a different issue. WMC posted on his talk page, and the topic ban does not prohibit that. "Broadly construed" is not intended to mean it can cover areas not listed in the topic ban, it means no one can edit a weather article, then wikilawyer to say that weather is not climate. "Broadly construed" means the subject of climate is to be broadly construed.--SPhilbrick T 20:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

By the way, whose sockpuppet is User:EngineerFromVega? My Magic 8 Ball says "open proxy," but it would be interesting to know for certain. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

-of no one. EngineerFromVega (talk) 21:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

This block is stupid, because William can still post on his talk page. Nothing would stop William posting some more links to CC articles. As things stand now, we still depend on William to notify us of Scibaby edits on some CC pages. That we can do without William doesn't mean that right now we don't need him. It may take a week or so before enough editors are there to check all the CC articles.

Per WP:IAR, William is morally obliged to ignore the fundamentalistic interpretation of the topic ban given by some here and post links to vandalized articles in a discrete way (like on his talk page). Sticking to the topic ban means that he does not revert the acts of vandalisms himself. Count Iblis (talk) 20:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Wrong, wrong wrong. Morally obliged? Do you guys see what we are up against now? The community has spoken, they want this dealt with harshly and they don't want any of this end-run bullshit. I don't know how anyone who has been following this could still honestly claim that they do not see the very clear consensus that all named parties are to completely avoid anything related to CC. Take it to a wider forum or back to ArbCom if you want, I think you will find that there is broad agreement that a hardline approach is warranted. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Unless you're politically well-connected, like Cla68, in which you can continue lobbying for sanctions against other editors while the arbs and admins turn a blind eye. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:47, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Moo said the mob, or at least a small and noisy part of it. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If that is going to be the level of discourse here, I will simply state that I have no intention of reversing myself and move on to other matters. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Let's try to raise the level then. As Sphilbrick has pointed out, the topic ban has explicitly listed what kind of pages are off limit - user talk pages are not in that list. In the clarification discussion, Coren carefully distinguished between things editors must not do and things they should not do. All Arbs commenting later agree with this comment. If this distinction has to have any value, then the one that things that must not be done are sanctionable, while things that should not be done are not. You block is neither justified by the original decision nor by the clarification. The sentiment of the community or even ArbCom may well be that the topic ban should have been more encompassing, but fact is that it is not. So your block is unjustified. It's also not preventative (as it does not prevent William from suggesting things on his talk page), but purely punitive. And blocking an editor for an edit in which he points out a BLP violation is really a really really bad idea. As is blindly following suggestions by a likely sock. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

(e/c)Can you point me to where the Arbs concluded, despite the fact that the topic ban does not mention user talk pages, that talk pages are included? (There are far too many words on this subject, but I can't find that discussion.) I'm amazed that a two week block is being enacted, without a link to anything proscribing such behavior.--SPhilbrick T 21:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

While the letter of the ban does not specifically indicate user talkpages, the spirit of the ban is that all banned parties should completely back away from the topic area. It doesn't specifically list the Template: or Category: namespaces, either, but if one of the banned users started edit warring over a climate change template, they would be blocked without hesitation. The Wordsmith 21:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Coren specifically said "suggesting" edits is "without breaking the letter of the ruling", and that the ruling would have to be amended if that type of edit should be included. You can't block someone for an action specifically identified by an Arb as not covered. If someone wants to warn an editor and declare that while talk pages were not in the ban, they are now—I'd support a block for a subsequent violation. But not before such a warning.--SPhilbrick T 21:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If one carefully reads the comments on the Notification and Clarification pages, you see that the people who argue in favor of the "hardline approach", completely ignore the nature of the problems William was giving notifications too, in fact construing this as being engaged in the topic area in a problematic way, while in fact he was giving notifications of edits that needed to be reverted. He did that a day after the edits were made, so, it was likely it was not noted by anyone at all as a problematic edit.

I have to say that if I were running a website like Misplaced Pages and I were the only Admin, I would actually block the people who are dishonest and fight personal disputes instead of seriously contributing to Misplaced Pages. Count Iblis (talk) 21:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I was preparing a request of this sort but somebody else beat me to it. None of the reasons given by William M. Connolley and his apologists here come close to excusing his refusal to disengage from the topic. I didn't start the request for clarification arbitrarily; it was primarily from observing his behavior and surmising that others (irrespective of faction) would see him getting away with it and be tempted to push the envelope. This tendency has to be nipped in the bud wherever it is spotted. Having said that I would prefer it if the wider community took the lead in filing enforcement reports. --TS 21:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Reply to Wordsmith's comment below. I am deeply ambivalent about classifying this block as falling within the "wide discretion allowed by the topic ban", when the letter of the ban (which the ArbCom deliberately and unusually chose to specifically scope in their findings) does not include user talk pages. Where administrators are allowed wide discretion is in the application of discretionary sanctions under a separate portion of the remedies. However, the discretionary sanctions require users to be engaged in disruptive or counterproductive behaviour not in the interests of the project (which WMC's edits do not seem to be), and that the user receive a clear warning before a block is applied under those sanctions.

What has happened here is that a well-meaning but overzealous administrators has msinterpreted and misapplied the case remedies in a draconian fashion, with the effect of punishing WMC for making an effort to respect the ArbCom's ruling while still contributing positively to the project in his area of expertise. As a further regrettable side effect, this block has rewarded WMC's opponents for stirring up this unnecessary conflict across multiple noticeboards in a way that is well beyond the spirit (and often letter) of their own restrictions. This is a very unfortunate precedent. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:34, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

WMC was well aware some time ago that the ban was going to be broadly interpreted and the penalties harsh. I and others told him and the other parties to expect this during the recent conversations at the arbcom noticeboard talk page. He is not supposed to be trying to contribute in his area of expertise. Period. I feel like a broken record here, ArbCom and the wider community have made their feelings clear enough, and WMC and others are choosing to try and find ways around the decision. It has got to stop, and it will be stopped. Again I suggest you ask ArbCom directly if you don't want to take my word for it. There is actually no need to ask the community as that has already been done and the answer was wide support for treating anything that approached the general area of CC harshly. If these opponents you speak of are also violating the ban, please report that here, I am not on anyone's side in this and I'm perfectly willing to block anyone else who is trying to skirt the edges of this ban. My one and only interest here is in putting an end to this drama. Talking for several months didn't work. Warning them not to try and find holes in the ban didn't work. Blocking is all we have left. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:46, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

A way forward

(e/c)Furthermore, to Beeblebrox's suggestion "Take it to a wider forum or back to ArbCom if you want", we do not need to take it back to ArbCom because they addressed this specific issue. Coren specifically identified this type of edit as the type one should not do, but is not covered by the ban. One option is to ask for an amendment to the ruling, as Coren suggests, but I believe there's an easier approach. In the very next bullet point (in Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification ) Davies points out

The discretionary sanctions regime in this case give administrators great leeway in restoring order and even gives guidance matching conduct to appropriate sanctions. These sanctions may be applied by any uninvolved administrators of their own volition, which means no prior process on any noticeboard is necessary. All that is required before an administrator acts is a "cease and desist" message on the editor's talk page.

That's all that is needed. Remove the block, issue a cease and desist, and if it happens again, block.--SPhilbrick T 21:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

This action doesn't enforce the discretionary sanctions, but the topic ban. In addition to the arbitration decision in which they were told they were topic banned, all topic-banned editors have been treated to the unusually explicit statements of the community (at WP:AN), the arbitration committee (at Request for Clarification) and the uninvolved admins (here in the Mark Nutley case yesterday) saying with one voice: "We Meant It!" --TS 21:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning William M. Connolley

This is cut and dried. The topic ban is to be broadly interpreted, and this edit violates it. I'm off to block Mr. Connolley for the next two weeks. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Generous. I was typing up an opinion to go for the full month the decision allows, this was such a complete and flagrant disregard of the ban. Courcelles 19:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Marknutley just got the same, so I figured we'd use two weeks as a starting point. I'm more than willing to escalate for repeat offenders. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I concur with the block reason and the length (since Marknutley got the same it makes a good starting point). FloNight ♥♥♥♥ 19:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I'm on the fence about this as well. While WMC should desist from any activities related to climate change, notifying users about vandalism is undoubtedly a good thing. That he posted on his talkpage instead of reverting himself indicates that he intended to comply with at least the letter of the ban. It appears to be a moot point now, but the block does appear to have been within the wide discretion allowed by the topic ban. The Wordsmith 20:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Any block, or action under a block, needs to be clear, and the reasoning explained, so that outsiders like me can review. On the face of it, this looks like punitive BS. ArbCom's ban does not extend to discussing the matter on user talk pages, an issue that was under serious discussion around October 21-22. To my knowledge ArbCom has not clarified that. To reduce the ArbCom decision to OMG don't even think of climate change is an absurd extreme, and would speak poorly of ArbCom if that were their approach to handling contentious topics. If WMC is to be blocked for this action could someone clearly state the applicable sanction, the behavior in question, and how the behavior fits the sanction? - Wikidemon (talk) 02:50, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Marknutley

Moved from WP:AN, 20:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Appealing user: Marknutley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – mark (talk) 11:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed: The current block

Administrator imposing the sanction: Courcelles (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by Marknutley

I think this block is atrocious. There is no justification for a block based on my commenting on an ANI discussion. And most certainly not a two week block for what was essentially a mistake.

I suspect those who supported a block did not even look at what i had written at ANI Not even commenting on CC is it? The discussion was including edit events from these.

April 2009: ANI discussion which resulted in a block. The block was reduced when he showed remorse and an intent to improve .
August 2009: He was again blocked for edit warring and again promised to desist in the future . His block was again reduced.
July 2010: Personal attacks (deleted edit), which resulted in a block.
October 2010: Petty vandalism when questioned about recent reverts (archived discussion).
My block for 3RR on William Connelley.

Is my comment really worthy of a two week block, especially as sideaways said he just wanted clarification? I withdrew voluntarily from the CC articles over 6 weeks before the case even finished, and have not touched one since, does this count for naught? come on. mark (talk) 15:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Moved from Mark's talk page to AN. NW (Talk) 18:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

N.B. No editor who has been a protagonist in the CC fracas should comment here.--Scott Mac 18:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Marknutley

Collapsing comments that were made on Marknutley's talk page prior to transfer here. NW (Talk) 18:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
In a normal case, I'd say this block is borderline. However, given the long-running drama, the admins aren't dealing with a normal situation. The sanction does specifically mention "related processes" which would easily include some ANI's, but whether this specific ANI fell under sanction would have been uncertain without a related precedent. Unfortunately for Mark, he became the trailblazer for the new stance on sanctioned editors in the climate change issue. Mark's participation in the ANI could be construed as reigniting the former battle lines in a new forum, but FWIW, I believe Mark acted in good faith, but may very well have already been in dangerous waters before treading too far out. Without further comment on the validity of the block, I would note that approval of this block certainly establishes a precedent for the sanctioned editors to witness (and I'm sure many of them are interested in the outcome here). A block of this sort sends a thunderously loud message that there are some who are to stay far, far away from commenting on any matters even tangentially related to climate change (with very few exceptions), and that even engaging in any sort of confrontations about climate change will draw scrutiny; this seems to support the goal of the ArbCom ruling (though that's not to say that the block here is definitely right ... or wrong). BigK HeX (talk) 15:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC) Mark has a long history of testing the limits with regard to sanctions. But in this case he was apparently acting in good faith, commenting on a subject that is only tenuously connected to climate change, and certainly not adding extra heat to the long-running climate change dispute. A block may be necessary to show Mark - and others - how seriously the instruction to avoid climate change-related discussions should be taken, but the length of this block is obviously punitive and does not take into account the (lack of) severity of the transgression or the reasonable room for doubt. It should be reduced to a 24-hr block. Thparkth (talk) 15:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC) It does seem to come down to whether more consideration should be given to the new less-than-tolerant stance on those tempted to approach the Climate Change Gun Line or Mark's penchant for haplessly wandering beyond the safe bounds into the grey area. Mark's voluntary self-ban is a possible mitigating factor, but there's a chance that the need to enforce means that it's still just not enough. BigK HeX (talk) 16:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC) I support the block. While one cannot know intentions, it seems likely that mark nutley chose to become involved in the ANI dispute because of his intention to influence the editing of CC articles. TFD (talk) 17:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Collapsing comments that were made on Marknutley's talk page prior to transfer here. NW (Talk) 18:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

In a normal case, I'd say this block is borderline. However, given the long-running drama, the admins aren't dealing with a normal situation. The sanction does specifically mention "related processes" which would easily include some ANI's, but whether this specific ANI fell under sanction would have been uncertain without a related precedent. Unfortunately for Mark, he became the trailblazer for the new stance on sanctioned editors in the climate change issue. Mark's participation in the ANI could be construed as reigniting the former battle lines in a new forum, but FWIW, I believe Mark acted in good faith, but may very well have already been in dangerous waters before treading too far out. Without further comment on the validity of the block, I would note that approval of this block certainly establishes a precedent for the sanctioned editors to witness (and I'm sure many of them are interested in the outcome here). A block of this sort sends a thunderously loud message that there are some who are to stay far, far away from commenting on any matters even tangentially related to climate change (with very few exceptions), and that even engaging in any sort of confrontations about climate change will draw scrutiny; this seems to support the goal of the ArbCom ruling (though that's not to say that the block here is definitely right ... or wrong). BigK HeX (talk) 15:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Mark has a long history of testing the limits with regard to sanctions. But in this case he was apparently acting in good faith, commenting on a subject that is only tenuously connected to climate change, and certainly not adding extra heat to the long-running climate change dispute. A block may be necessary to show Mark - and others - how seriously the instruction to avoid climate change-related discussions should be taken, but the length of this block is obviously punitive and does not take into account the (lack of) severity of the transgression or the reasonable room for doubt. It should be reduced to a 24-hr block. Thparkth (talk) 15:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

It does seem to come down to whether more consideration should be given to the new less-than-tolerant stance on those tempted to approach the Climate Change Gun Line or Mark's penchant for haplessly wandering beyond the safe bounds into the grey area. Mark's voluntary self-ban is a possible mitigating factor, but there's a chance that the need to enforce means that it's still just not enough. BigK HeX (talk) 16:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I support the block. While one cannot know intentions, it seems likely that mark nutley chose to become involved in the ANI dispute because of his intention to influence the editing of CC articles. TFD (talk) 17:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The CC dispute must end - entirely and completely. Those editors in dispute must stop disputing - entirely and completely. We can manage the CC topic without them, and we can deal with any problematic behaviour from any editor involved in that fracas without any comment from other editors involved in that fracas. Our patience is exhausted. Editors who have been causing the problems need to go totally out of their way to bodyswerve any discussion that's even remotely related. Editors failing to get this, or pushing anywhere near the boundary of it, take the consequences on their own heads. Zero-tolerance.

Does Marknutley get this? If he does, then perhaps we can remove this block - but it is the last time for any lienancy.--Scott Mac 18:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

One of the main reasons I agreed on the block is that while Mark is generally well-meaning, he has no concept of where the boundaries are. HE pushed the limits of prior sanctions that had been placed upon him, and it is likely that this fiasco is another attempt to do that. This, it is apparant that he doesn't get it, and the block is necessary. The Wordsmith 19:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

This appeal is in the wrong place. Per WP:ARBCC remedy 1.2, sanctions may be appealed "to the appropriate noticeboard (currently Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement)". I recommend that somebody move it there. Sandstein 20:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Since he was blocked as a result of an AE report, I feel that it would be unfair to make him appeal to the same noticeboard. But it looks like it doesn't matter. NW (Talk) 20:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, the instructions are pretty clear. I'll be moving it now. Sandstein 20:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the action is sanctionable, but I also think two weeks is too much, though. I also find it depressing that from the wide range of possible discretionary sanctions, apparently blocks are the only ones that are ever considered. To me, this seems to be playing to the crowd, not considering what is likely to work well. In particular, Mark has always acted like a rhino in a China shop - without malice, but energetic and potentially destructive. I don't think a block alone is able to change this. What is needed is a clearer explanation of the limits, as e.g. possible with the power to enact a stricter topic ban as enabled by the discretionary sanctions. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I am not seeing any cogent argument that the block was improper, nor any good reason the block shouldn't be concluded. Sometimes it sucks to be the first person to get one's knuckles rapped for being over the line, but that doesn't change the line's position. Jclemens (talk) 21:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Marknutley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Keep it on and keep taking this exact same approach. The time for any tendency toward leniency is long past. Let this be a message to the rest of the named parties. Come even that close to anything CC related and you will get the same. It's over, you are all topic banned. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I agreed to the block as a compromise, and the reason for that block stands. Mark has repeatedly shown he doesn't know where the line is; now all the involved editors know. When he was under a restriction against adding sources, he continually pushed the boundaries of it. It would appear that the case that resulted in this block was another attempt to do so, with the topic ban. I continue to endorse the block. The Wordsmith 19:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Fully support the block. There was nothing unclear about ArbCom's requirement for the editors sanctioned to stay away from anything involving CC whatsoever. This is a clear message that pushing those boundaries will not be tolerated. Seraphimblade 19:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Endorse block - it was quite clear that the 1RR proposal was meant to deal with Climate Change issues, so Mark shouldn't have gotten involved. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Agree with block reason and length. The Community wants the topic banned users to stay completely away from anything related to the subject including all matters that are related. FloNight ♥♥♥♥ 20:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Just a note, since I didn't see it above: the text of the topic ban can be viewed here. The phrase "...participating in any Misplaced Pages process relating to those articles" appears to be the key one. Protonk (talk) 20:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Endorse the block, obviously, per my comment at the original AE thread. T. Canens (talk) 03:44, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Strongly endorse, per Seraphim. --WGFinley (talk) 06:16, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by William M. Connolley

This is an appeal of the enforcement from the #William M. Connolley section above.

Appealing user: William M. Connolley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – William M. Connolley (talk) 21:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed: Banned means leave it alone, entirely. No exceptions. is the one that Beeblebrox has made up.

Administrator imposing the sanction: Beeblebrox (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: WMC is blocked, so I have done this for him. The Wordsmith 22:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Statement by William M. Connolley

The arbcomm sanctions do not apply to a user's own talk page, therefore this block is invalid

Statement by Beeblebrox

I didn't make anything up. The community and ArbCom have made it clear they want this topic ban interpreted as broadly as possible and that the liberal use of blocks is the preferred enforcement remedy. This kind of testing the waters is exactly what they were warned not to do just last week in the conversation at the ArbCom noticeboard. I was fully prepared to be attacked by WMC's army of fans and apologists over this, but I don't actually see any need for me to repeat myself any further as I have made my position abundantly clear already. I will not be reversing this block. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway

I'll comment here in clarification because I've been quoted below for my opinion in this discussion, "What does topic banned mean?" At the time, just 12 days ago, I argued that the topic ban didn't forbid edits to user talk pages. Having since then seen continued sniping, bickering and bad faith statements on arbitration pages and user talk pages , and even links to external discussions of climate change placed by topic banned editors on my own user talk page , I've changed my mind, and I've also made efforts to ascertain the opinion of the community and of the arbitrators. There seems to be near unanimity that a problem still exists and that no allowances should be given. My opinion is now completely opposed to permitting the discussion of climate change or any disputes whatever arising from the editing of the topic anywhere on Misplaced Pages by topic banned editors. It is the continued inappropriate conduct of the topic banned editors that swayed me, particular the efforts by several of those editors to continue their dispute using the medium of various discussions on the problem . This was a self-feeding fire and must be stamped out before it infects more of Misplaced Pages. If there is an article edit or comment to be made, some non-banned editor can make it--TS 10:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Statement by SirFozzie

(moved from down below, sorry about that)

Honestly, the best thing in all ways is ALL the topic banned, on both sides WALK AWAY. No attempts to stay in the topic area via efforts On-Wiki, off-wiki, on-WR, email, IM, hell, I'd suggest barring smoke signals if I thought anyone would actually do it. What we're seeing is people who are here for the fight on Climate Change, who the Committee attempted to remove from the area, who the community of administrators are trying to remove from this area, trying desperately to remain in this topic area, NO MATTER THE COST OR THE TACTICS USED. That's not what the encyclopedia needs. That's not what the community wants. Walk away from it here on Wiki. SirFozzie (talk) 21:52, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Fine. That's perfectly reasonable, and I would advise everyone who was banned to do that. But would you be willing to block someone for doing what WMC did on WR or on a blog? I assume not. Then what's the difference between posting there and on his talk page. NW (Talk) 22:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Because they've been told specifically to disengage on-wiki? SirFozzie (talk) 22:08, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Let me expand on that. Of course, we cannot control what people do on places outside of Misplaced Pages (with certain limited exceptions, such as off-WP actions meant to have on-WP effects, such as threats, or as in the EEML case, attempting to stack consensus and target opposing editors). The actions of the Committee members who voted these topic bans in and the administrators who have enforced these bans (on both sides), however, has made it clear that they want to see an absolute clean break between the editors sanctioned and the Climate Change topic area. It reflects poorly on the people sanctioned so far that they cannot accept the situation. SirFozzie (talk) 22:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

So are you suggesting that topic-banned editors should avoid the subject on WR or other websites, under pain of sanctions against their Misplaced Pages accounts? I'm not saying that's a bad idea, but there would be a lot to police. ScottyBerg (talk) 22:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages's policies do not support sanctions for off-Wiki activities, except for those limited exceptions I noted above. I'm not going to state that any potential situation would or would not fall under those limited exceptions (that is for the Committee to decide should any such situations be brought to their attention). Please note, I do not suggest changing those policies to broaden the exeptions, for a very good reason.. I've seen the pendulum swing the other way on this.. it was called BADSITES. SirFozzie (talk) 22:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Obviously one can't police the whole Internet, and it also is possible that an editor can post anonymously that X is wrong with the CC articles and Y is right. I personally don't see the harm in editors stating those positions on their talk pages, as long as it is factual and not disruptive. Talk pages seem to be "safe harbors" generally. ScottyBerg (talk) 23:03, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

(This is just from reading the statements of the people who voted on the decision and the administrative actions taken so far to enforce the remedies in the decision). I think the reason is two-fold.

One) The personality conflicts in this area are absolutely toxic. Allowing folks to continue to opine from talk pages would just continue the conflict, in more of a throw and run way rather than the full fledged battles we're used to seeing.

Two) The dangers of meatpuppetry and battles by proxy are great. The problem would continue, only with a whole new set of editors mixing it up and the people who were Topic Banned here acting as the generals, so to speak, directing the effort (either privately or on their talk pages). I think I can speak for EVERYONE here (Arbs, Clerks, Parties, Involved Admins, General Public)... no one wants a "Climate Change 2" ArbCom case. Everyone spent four months here battling it out. 16 weeks. Do we really want that kind of battling (the kind that caused an article to be protected MULTIPLE times during the ArbCom case because the two sides wanted to slant the article their way?) SirFozzie (talk) 23:20, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

You might better understand ScottyBerg's point of view if you look at it this way:

One) The personality conflicts in this area are absolutely toxic. Allowing folks to continue to opine from Misplaced Pages Review would just continue the conflict, in more of a throw and run way rather than the full fledged battles we're used to seeing.

Two) The dangers of meatpuppetry and battles by proxy are great. The problem would continue, only with a whole new set of editors mixing it up and the people who were Topic Banned here acting as the generals, so to speak, directing the effort (from Misplaced Pages Review). I think I can speak for EVERYONE here (Arbs, Clerks, Parties, Involved Admins, General Public)... no one wants a "Climate Change 2" ArbCom case. Everyone spent four months here battling it out. 16 weeks. Do we really want that kind of battling (the kind that caused an article to be protected MULTIPLE times during the ArbCom case because the two sides wanted to slant the article their way?) Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 23:25, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I kinda wish they would take it to WR, or anywhere else really. (Not that I would wish the CC folks on WR, mind you (or vice versa!) The difference is, the Community, the Committee, the administrators, have all stated their fervent desire that theon-wki CC battles STOP, as much as possible. As I said above, in general, we can't control what goes on with the other ninety billion or so websites out there, but we CAN and WILL control what happens here. SirFozzie (talk) 23:34, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

But William being discussed and later reported at AE was exactly motivated by the sort of battlefield mentality that we don't want here. William posts links to CC science pages that were affected by Scibaby-like edits which went uncorrected after more than 24 hours. Realistically, it would always take some time for the rest of the community to take on the task of patrolling all the CC pages. Beeblebrox only started doing this today.

So, this should not be seen as a big deal. It is entirely natural for someone like William to move on to other areas over the course of one or two weeks, while still checking his old watchlist every morning, but gradually seeing that all unambiguous problems (e.g. Scibaby-like edits) are fixed by others, as more and more other editors take on the job of patrolling all the CC articles.

If Misplaced Pages were my personal website and I were the only Admin, I would actually block those people who were misrepresenting things. And if you violate your topic ban, you better have a damn good reason for that. Thing is that William had a good reason (and he didn't actually violate his topic ban). File an AE request against someone who you know reported an unambiguous problem, and it will be you will be blocked. Count Iblis (talk) 00:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

(de-indent) Count: I haven't seen the exact edits and to see if the user has been blocked. However, through his actions, it is not currently WMC's place to bring attention to this. He has been topic banned from the area. As it says above, a topic ban means you do not interact in that area. Period. End of story. If that was not abundantly clear before, it was made clear with the action taken against him. At least one administrator has stated during this appeal that they would be more inclined to unblocking WMC if he stated he understood the boundaries as had now been explained to him. WMC declined to give that statement. That pretty much states that he plans to continue to do so. SirFozzie (talk) 00:37, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok, but I do think this needs to be explicitly clarified by a an ArbCom motion. What we now have is a dispute about a consensus for this view. I accept that many people have this view, but I don't see the consensus that e.g. Beeblebrox claims exists for this view that would make an ArbCom motion unnecessary. Count Iblis (talk) 03:43, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by William M. Connolley

I agree with Beeblebrox that the community and the Arbs want a liberal use of blocks. However, in Roger Davies own words "All that is required before an administrator acts is a "cease and desist" message on the editor's talk page." Emphasis added.

There is no gray area concerning whether talk pages are in scope or out of scope. Arbitrator Coren explicitly said they were out of scope. That doesn't mean an uninvolved admin can't block based upon a talk page comment, it simply means that a warning is required first. Actions clearly within the scope (such as MN's post) do not require such warning.

The words are quite clear. And we are wasting too much time on this. If we follow the process as outlined by the arbs - block immediately for actions clearly in scope, warn then block for actions an involved admin feels are undesirable, we will be fine. WMC should be unblocked.--SPhilbrick T 22:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Sustain the action. It is WMC who has hallucinated the implication that a topic ban does not apply to an editor's own talk page. Jclemens (talk) 22:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I made much the same point (as Sphilbrick) earlier today, before this case was filed, in the AE case against Cla68. I felt that case was premature because he hadn't been warned, and because the margins of the topic ban were hazy. I feel the situation is the same here, only more so because of the severity of the block and because his actions were neither disruption nor battlefield. ScottyBerg (talk) 22:04, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I point to what I wrote above and endorse Sphilbrick's comment. Yes, ArbCom has "topic banned", but they have also (maybe unwisely) defined what that means in this case. I fail to understand how someone can in good faith read this as including non-provocative, helpful comments on the users own talk page, especially not after the ArbCom clarification. Mind-reading what the community or what ArbCom want, on the other hand, is not a useful bases for any kind of process. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

FWIW it looked grey to me, because the community supports strange rules on user talk pages, they were not mentioned explicitly in an explicit list and pushing stuff undercover is worse. So yes B can interpret it this way but as it is grey a cease and desist was needed. Might well reach the same outcome a few minutes later but the process was short-circuited. --BozMo talk 22:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

@various pther admins below. It is very hard to argue that from participating in any Misplaced Pages process relating to those articles unambiguously covers discussion on user talk pages. It just isn't clear --BozMo talk 22:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Let's face it. The whole point of the arbcom case was to get WMC's head on a pike; all the other stuff was just window dressing. This was so blindingly obvious that the so-called "vandal version" of the decision, released before the arbs even got around to their first proposal, was nearly identical in substance to the final decision.

The bottom line is that WMC is going to get kicked around for whatever real or imagined offense folks can come up with. If he says "got to work late today because there was a bad storm" someone will leap at the chance to block him for using the word "storm," which they will contend is climate-related "broadly construed." Since he's guilty no matter what there's no real incentive to reform. Why don't you just indef block him from the project and be done with it? Or is the goal to prolong the drama? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 22:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I read Coren's statement as admitting that the current language of the relevant Arb remedy does not strictly address user talk pages. In that sense the language of the enacted remedy was more narrow than what is commonly understood by "topic ban". I also read the Arb statements (1, 2) as indicating that this technical loophole was unintentional, and if forced to do so they would amend the Arb remedies to fill the gap. Which from my point of view answers the issue, and user talk page posts relating to climate change are not okay. It appears to be within the scope of the discretionary sanctions to address this, and so a full amendment by Arbcom is probably unnecessary (though it might be helpful, for clarity and to demonstrate consensus among Arbcom members). The only caveat I would add is that since there could have been plausible confusion about whether this behavior was technically okay or not okay, it might be reasonable to unblock WMC this once with the understanding that similar edits in the future will lead to blocks. In addition, others topic banned in this case should probably receive an explicit warning about the use of user talk pages if this is how we plan to interpret the issue going forward. Dragons flight (talk) 22:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Can those who says I'm mistaken point out the mistake?

Coren clearly states that "suggesting" edits (which is even stronger than what WMC was doing) is outside the scope of the ban, and would require an amendment to include.
Roger concurs, and goes onto suggest how to properly handle this situation.
Shell "agree with the opinions of my colleagues above" so no dissent there.
Carcharoth says "I agree with the responses by Newyorkbrad, Coren and Roger Davies."

I don't see any wiggle room. I believe the topic ban should have included user talk pages, I'm stunned that it did not, but as user talk pages were the subject of extensive discussion, it's not like it was an oversight (as, say templates might be). I'd be happy if some or several arbs chimed in and said, we intend talk pages to be included in the ban. Then going forward, they would be in the ban. However, the present request is for someone to explain how several arbs explicitly concurred with Coren, and none dissented, yet we've enact a block against someone who followed the rules.--SPhilbrick T 23:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Everyone, let's reboot our brains in safe mode, remove the ArbCom spyware, make appropriate changes to the system registry and then take fresh look. Only then will the following comments sink in. So, here we go: Edits on userspace are not part of Misplaced Pages processes. It doesn't matter one iota whether William posts a comment on his userspace, his personal blog, The Misplaced Pages Review, or any other cyber-public venue. Also think about the logic of blocking an editor who violates the topic to make sure he/she doesn't do it again. Does that logic apply here? Is William now constrained from posting links on his userspace? Even if he were to be blocked from editing his userpsace, nothing would stop him from posting links on his personal blog.

Conversely, if William had done as Beeblebrox and some others demand, he could have posted on his blog a few months later how bad the ArbCom ruling is because "look at all these Scibaby edits that have accumulated during the last 3 months". That would have made him look bad, it would actually have amounted to a violation of WP:POINT by staying silent for so long. Count Iblis (talk) 23:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I reject the notion that WMC has a moral imperative that allows breaking the rules. First, if the moral imperative exists, then surely it mean he can do more than post to a user talk page, it means he can actually make the edit. Clearly, there is no point to a topic ban if it can be evaded that easily. Second, to the extent that WMC truly sees a wrong which needs weighting, he can email you in private, or any one of a dozen others, so on the chance that WP will burn to the ground but for WMC, that can be handled without breaking a topic ban whether narrowly or broadly construed. I don't think it helps to resolve this dispute by arguing that WMC could edit in userspace even if we did the right thing and included it in scope. This issue is quite simple - we agreed to a process, and we aren't following it. The solution is simple - follow the process - either amend the decision to include user spaces generally, or have a sysop declare that user space edits are now disallowed, and issue a warning then a block to anyone who breaks the new rule. We are spending far too much time trying to convince ourselves that the rule already says that.--SPhilbrick T 23:41, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree that process should be followed and that this issue has to be clarified. But given a precise formulation, there is always room for notification of problems. As you say, William can send emails if banned from CC related notifications on his talk page. But note that the AE request against William was motivated just on the grounds that William places notifications. If William had notified me via email of a problem and I had been fixing a problem and writen in the edit summary that I was notified by William, then a similar AE request could have been filed: "William is editing via proxies". Count Iblis (talk) 00:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I thank User:FloNight for the link to a relevant page explicitly discussing whether user talk pages are in scope. Relevant excerpts:

Lar "Does it extend to user talk pages?"
TenOfAllTrades "it does not include user talk pages"
Arthur Rubin "discussion ... whether one climate change category is a subset of another?"
Roger Davies "Sure... for those who want ... discretionary sanctions" (NB, discretionary sanctions require warning before block)
Count Iblis "It seems clear to me that discussions about climate science are allowed on talk pages"
ScienceApologist "When I was topic banned, I proposed edits all the time from my talkpage to no objections"
Beeblebrox "just stay the hell away from anything that could be construed as even vaguely related to climate change"
TS (responding to Beeblebrox) "t looks to me as if you've misread the discussion."
BozMo "WMC ... can give technical comments ... seems an elegant solution."
Arthur Rubin "user talk pages ... should be fine"
Roger Davies "I disagree sharply with what you say about uninvited talk page comments" (implicitly accepting other talk page comments)

Caveat - I did this in only a few minutes - I attempted to use ellipses honestly, but read the whole thing, and reach your own conclusion. My summary - many people explicitly saying talk pages are OK - the only major dissent is Beeblebrox. Note especially that Davies tells us that people gaming the rules (the specific example was category talk, but could be construed to include game playing on talk pages) will be dealt with harshly, but with DS, which requires a warning. That's all I'm saying, the clear consensus is that if an admin wants to prohibit talk page comments, they can, with a warning.

I truly understand the frustration this community has with the CC issue, but read the FloNight linked page as if you didn't known about the whole issue, and tell me if you can come away clearly convinced that a talk page comments can earn a block without a warning.--SPhilbrick T 00:34, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Messy addendum: Unfortunately, I ran out of steam at the wrong point. The very next paragraph:

Carcharoth "If we (ArbCom) had intended to allow limited discussion of sources on user talk pages, we would have made provisions for that. As we didn't, there are no provisions for that to take place."

While that strong statement undoes a lot of what came earlier, but in my view, it muddies the waters, rather than adding clarity. Arguably, they did make provision for talk page discussions, ~~but~~by failing to include them on the list despite discussions. Had Coren and Davies followed up with "That's really what I meat" I'd say case closed, but they did not, so we are left with multiple clear, but conflicting statements from Arbs. (A situation easily resolved with a clear warning prior to a block.)--SPhilbrick T 01:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Just to make things extra clear, none of my comments on that matter can be construed to mean that WMC's raising issues he saw in articles in the CC area was in any way acceptable. I explicitly advised him to the contrary, in fact, and my comment in the clarification request squarely put the behavior for which he was blocked in the "should not do" camp. — Coren 00:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Coren. And there is also this post yesterday at AN: "Support. As another Arb wrote ( Carcharoth, at , "My intention, when voting for the topic bans, was that those topic-banned would stay away from the topic area completely (as Beeblebrox has said). If we (ArbCom) had intended to allow limited discussion of sources on user talk pages, we would have made provisions for that. As we didn't, there are no provisions for that to take place." This has gone on long enough. I'm with Scott Mac. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs) 15:27, 25 October 2010 (UTC)" Speaks for itself. Beeblebrox (talk) 04:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I had missed that one too. Much clearer. thanks. --BozMo talk 12:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Block no longer necessary

William has now made arrangements to comply with the don't ask don't tell rule regarding his scientific orientation by keeping CC discussions confined to a mailing list. Count Iblis (talk) 18:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

(ec):I'm sorry but I have to say something here. I asked on WMC's talk page here why the block was done now and not 10 days ago when WMC made what I was told his first edit to his talk page about the CC area which you can see the explanation to me here. The response I got from Cube lurker was that the complaint came here and 15 min. later a two week block was applied against WMC. 15 whole minutes were allowed prior to blocking the editor, why? Was this an emergency block to protect the project from harm? Also, WMC asks nicely what he did for a two week block which the blocking administrator has ignored as far as I can tell. Am I the only one who has a problem with the way this was handled? It's nice Coren clarified things more but doing so today after the block isn't really all that helpful to the editor that is blocked. Now WMC may deserve a block but I have to admit that what Phil says I too thought it was alright to discuss on talk pages. Editors have been going to WMC with questions too. What this block does is it is making editors take their questions and comments offline to either email or other forums. We lose transparency now which I think is a shame. At least the discussions were in the open which is what was said before about whether WMC and the others talking about CC on their own talk pages. Seriously, this block was wrong the way it was handled. If WMC was causing an immediate threat to damage the project than the block 15 minutes after coming here would be appropriate. I have to ask now what the administrator that blocked him had in his/her mind to feel that the block was needed so quickly. Is there a history between the administrator and WMC? I would also like to know what the specific reason for the block is for please. I think now the banned editors understand not even their talk pages are allowed, if they don't then the block will now be deserved. But that being said, if Coren had to clarify himself now, then things weren't clear to all editors and you can include me in that. Thanks for listening to me, --CrohnieGal 18:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, clearly WMC has turned a page. Oh wait, he has resorted to petty name calling: . Beeblebrox (talk) 18:25, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Another way of circumnavigating the Arbcom ruling. Apparently, there is no improvement even after this two week block. EngineerFromVega (talk) 19:03, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Question about the future

Other topic banned editors have used their talk pages to comment on the topics from which they have been banned, and without anyone objecting. In the future, will topic banned editors who have done this be subject to blocks, or will this be a special rule, which applies only to WMC? Cardamon (talk) 19:11, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

What happened was that through a series of discussions it became increasingly clear that the community wanted this type of thing to stop, and as you can see here, several arbs have clarified that they did not intend to leave a back door open in this manner. Marknutley and WMC were simply the first two persons reported here since that consensus developed and have both been blocked for two weeks. It is absolutely not a specific rule aimed at any particular user, it applies to all users under this topic ban equally. It's just that it took a moment for this to become clear. Any further attempts to end run the ban will be dealt with in a similar fashion. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by William M. Connolley

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Receiving a topic-ban means that the topic in question is off-limits everywhere on Misplaced Pages; the arbitration committee has made this clear with regard to a number of cases on a number of occasions. They have made it clear that wiki-lawyering as to whether a particular namespace was explicitly proscribed is both unwelcome and irrelevant. I would have preferred a duration of 7 days, rather than 14, but the current duration is not excessive and I do not support overturning the sanction. CIreland (talk) 22:03, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
SPhilbricK, You misunderstand. WMC was topic banned by ArbCom, and this is an enforcement for that remedy. He has been notified of that with the close of the case. AND Coren (and others) clarified the scope of the ban for him. Only new editors or changes need prior warning under the Discretionary sanctions. FloNight♥♥♥♥ 22:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
- Add link to thread on ArbCom Noticeboard where more than one arbitrator and some uninvolved admins clarified that the topic ban was to enforced on all pages. FloNight♥♥♥♥ 22:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
  - FloNight, the ArbCom ruling was pretty clear in what it specified and what it did not specify. All arbs had the chance to add talk pages to the ruling at the time, but didn't
As FloNight says, SPhilbricK is mistaken; WMC has been banned from participating in any Misplaced Pages process relating to those articles. PhilKnight (talk) 22:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
endorse topic banned means "find a new topic" - it is not an invitation to "find a new venue for the same topic". Enough is enough.--Scott Mac 22:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Endorse Topic-banned means that area of Misplaced Pages is no longer your concern. Courcelles 22:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
If WMC had indicated that he didn't know it was a violation of the ban, and would abide by the new, expanded scope of it, I would be willing to grant his appeal. However, he has declined to make such a statement, so i must reluctantly endorse the block. The Wordsmith 23:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
As with the other block above, "topic ban" means "cease all participation in this area, period", not "try to find loopholes and stay involved anyway". And as above, this sends a clear message that boundary testing and lawyering will not be tolerated, and that the expectation is that the topic banned editors will stay entirely away from that topic. Seraphimblade 23:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Endorse block I do appreciate the argument that this block was outside the scope of the discretionary sanctions - if this was a court and I was a judge I'd uphold that argument. But it's not. Thankfully we have the ability to sanction conduct that is itelf designed to avoid sanctions. Good block. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Good block, per most of the above. T. Canens (talk) 03:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Endorse and extend, how much more admin time being consumed by WMC is enough? I think we have passed that point. --WGFinley (talk) 16:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Bad block. Unless I'm missing something, the user's talk page is not covered in 3.1 "Scope of topic bans". All the user did was post something on his own talk page. This has nothing to do with the editorial process on Misplaced Pages, besides perhaps "influencing" other users. Not good enough to justify censoring someone's own talk page. He could easily have a blog which he could direct sympathetic readers to follow, so the only fault is that these messages were on wiki space rather than journal space. The remedy is to keep him away from article disputes, not to scare him out of voicing his own opinions on his own talk page. The block was a overreaching one, sets a bad precedent, and should be overturned. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 19:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
- The amusing thing is the direction that this encourages editors to go down . If WMC doesn't want to stop watchlisting the topic area, he can simply create a thread on, say, Misplaced Pages Review entitled "things that should be fixed but won't", add some criticism of the ArbCom decision, and periodically post to it. Exact same effect, but now is driven off-wiki. NW (Talk) 21:42, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

So, what would you have us do? Let him end-run the topic ban on-wiki so he won't do it off wiki? The vast majority of users named in the ban have accepted it and moved on. Those who cannot exercise the self control needed to do that need to have controls imposed upon them until such time as they can restrain themselves from ignoring the ban and/or trying various underhanded tactics to evade it. The message WMC and everyone else named in the ban was sent was "stay away from anything on Misplaced Pages related to climate change." That some have voluntarily elected to ignore that perfectly clear message is a reflection on them, not a flaw in the decision. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:16, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

The matter isn't that difficult. He's not lawyering his ban by posting on his own talk page. Users have always been allowed to do this. Unless I'm missing something, the ArbCom ruling clearly does not authorise blocks for comments on his own talk page. What was the point of the "Scope of topic bans" section, if intervening admins can just ignore it for unpopular users and make up their own rulings ("topic banned means "find a new topic", "Topic-banned means that area of Misplaced Pages is no longer your concern")?! People often need their own space to vent, and that serves a function. If he starts on project and article space, block him; if it's just his own talk, ignore him and leave him to it. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 23:52, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

You are in fact missing something, although you can hardly be blamed for it. There has been a lot of discussion since the ruling was originally posted, and as a result of those discussions, mostly located at the arbcom noticeboard talk page and WP:AN a consensus emerged which favored including such editing within the scope of the ban as it was clearly intended to be an end-run around the ban. There was fairly broad agreement that the time for talk was over and the time to start issuing harsh blocks in order to send the message that this dispute must end had come. So, even if these blocks (everyone seems to have forgotten this is actually the second such block and the block of Marknutley was possibly even more tangental to actual CC content) were not in within the scope of the original decision arbitrators, administrators, and the community at large were in favor of a more hardline approach in order to stop this once and for all. As I've mentioned, most of the other named parties were able to walk away when they were asked to do so, there are only a few holdouts who wouldn't let go, and WMC participated in at least on of these discussions so he was not unaware this was a possibility. It is my guess that he did not think anyone would actually do it and he was testing the waters to see how close he could come without getting blocked. I trust he now knows the answer to that and I sincerely hope this the last CC enforcement block that will be needed. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:46, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Hammer of Habsburg

Blocked 1 week for 1RR violation and warned with respect to ARBMAC discretionary sanctions.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Request concerning Hammer of Habsburg User requesting enforcement — kwami (talk) 02:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Hammer of Habsburg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy that this user violated WP:ARBMAC (article currently at 1RR) Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it (first revert, the limit per ARBMAC) (second revert, violating 1RR) (third revert) Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) HH has been blocked twice for violating 1RR on this article. Chipmunkdavis warned HH to self-revert the third time. Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) whatever you feel appropriate Additional comments by editor filing complaint HH reverted a line in a text that I was working out with another editor, Chipmunkdavis; we are trying to come up with some text that will resolve some of the objections Croats have about the article. The line was marked 'citation needed', as the point had been in the news but needs confirmation. (Waiting for response from the EU.) — kwami (talk) 02:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning Hammer of Habsburg Statement by Hammer of Habsburg Comments by others about the request concerning Hammer of Habsburg Result concerning Hammer of Habsburg This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Given two fairly recent blocks, I'm blocking for a week. T. Canens (talk) 02:49, 27 October 2010 (UTC) In addition, given that all three 1RR blocks are for edit warring on the same article, under the authority of WP:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions, Hammer of Habsburg (talk · contribs) is hereby banned from the Croatian language article for one month. They are permitted to edit the talk page. T. Canens (talk) 02:58, 27 October 2010 (UTC) Striking that, since the user does not appear to have been served with an ARBMAC warning. Done now. The next violation will result in an article ban. T. Canens (talk) 03:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC) Support block. I'm not optimistic that the editor's behavior will be any different when the block expires, but a topic ban should be the next option to consider. Suggest that the ban should cover all the articles under WP:ARBMAC. EdJohnston (talk) 13:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC) Concur per T. Canens. --WGFinley (talk) 16:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Blocked 1 week for 1RR violation and warned with respect to ARBMAC discretionary sanctions.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Hammer of Habsburg

User requesting enforcement: — kwami (talk) 02:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Hammer of Habsburg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: WP:ARBMAC (article currently at 1RR)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

(first revert, the limit per ARBMAC)
(second revert, violating 1RR)
(third revert)

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

HH has been blocked twice for violating 1RR on this article.
Chipmunkdavis warned HH to self-revert the third time.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): whatever you feel appropriate

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: HH reverted a line in a text that I was working out with another editor, Chipmunkdavis; we are trying to come up with some text that will resolve some of the objections Croats have about the article. The line was marked 'citation needed', as the point had been in the news but needs confirmation. (Waiting for response from the EU.) — kwami (talk) 02:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Hammer of Habsburg

Statement by Hammer of Habsburg

Comments by others about the request concerning Hammer of Habsburg

Result concerning Hammer of Habsburg

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Given two fairly recent blocks, I'm blocking for a week. T. Canens (talk) 02:49, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

In addition, given that all three 1RR blocks are for edit warring on the same article, under the authority of WP:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions, Hammer of Habsburg (talk · contribs) is hereby banned from the Croatian language article for one month. They are permitted to edit the talk page. T. Canens (talk) 02:58, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Striking that, since the user does not appear to have been served with an ARBMAC warning. Done now. The next violation will result in an article ban. T. Canens (talk) 03:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Support block. I'm not optimistic that the editor's behavior will be any different when the block expires, but a topic ban should be the next option to consider. Suggest that the ban should cover all the articles under WP:ARBMAC. EdJohnston (talk) 13:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Concur per T. Canens. --WGFinley (talk) 16:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Andranikpasha

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Andranikpasha

User requesting enforcement: Atabəy (talk) 19:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Andranikpasha (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2#1

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

See edit comment. Accusing contributor of having meatpuppets without basis and to push his WP:POV in violation of WP:CIVIL
Another comment violating WP:CIVIL
, , Numerous reverts in violation of 1RR/week restriction by A-A2 Arbitration Remedy, insertion of dubious or NPOV tags even when presented with concise references showing otherwise. Please, follow the discussion at Talk:March_Days and the revert history of March Days to find out more about disruptive editing.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warning by Atabəy (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): The contributor has previously been under arbitration for edit warring and banned for 3 months. He is back, clearly violating the imposed remedies by reengaging in edit warring, reverting, irrelevant tag insertion against references, assuming bad faith of contributors in violation of WP:CIVIL. I warned the contributor for this behavior, but he took no action instead simply removed my warning and continuing to push WP:POV. He is currently inserting irrelevant references, some of them unsourced or with no URL provided, attempting to change the essence of the topic. I request that the contributor is topic-banned from Armenia-Azerbaijan related topics for the prior restrictions have not resulted in constructive editing. Atabəy (talk) 19:06, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: <Your text>

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested has been made

Discussion concerning Andranikpasha

Statement by Andranikpasha

On October 26, 2010 User Atabay (who is also under AA2 remedies), without any discusissions and explanations on the talk added some dubious text to the article . The he was the first being warned for his incivil behaviour as after I started to discuss his misinterpretation of a souce (currently he seems to agree with my opinion by his last edit ) and chauvinistic remark on Armenian descent of naturalized American scolar Roland Suny , another Azerbaijani user who never was involved in our discussion deleted my <dubious> tag with aggressive manner (after few hours our discusssions started). After some attempts to readd his misinterpretation, Atabay seems to aggreed on a version and this request was made late, it is added after the discussion seems to be ended and looks like an attempt of revenge, as Atabays misinterpretations were proven (see the talk ). I never pushed any POV, as all my addings are supported by numerous reliable sources. And I made only 1 revert, it was this . Andranikpasha (talk) 07:17, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Andranikpasha

Result concerning Andranikpasha

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Jack Sparrow 3 (Croatian language)

Request concerning Jack Sparrow 3

User requesting enforcement: — kwami (talk) 06:50, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Jack Sparrow 3 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: ban on the article and WP:ARBMAC (article currently at 1RR)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

(first revert of sourced statements, violating his ban on the article)
(second revert, violating 1RR as well)

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

JS3 was blocked for a week after violating ARBMAC, and banned from this article.
Chipmunkdavis warned him to self-revert the second time, though that would only address the 1RR violation and not the ban.

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): enforcement of the existing topic ban as appropriate

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: JS3's is a strongly held political belief by some editors that Croatian is not a form of Serbo-Croatian and is not particularly close to Serbian, a POV contradicted by a huge number of RS's (some of which he deleted) and which has no RS support. Discussion on the article has centered on how to follow sources without unduly offending this POV.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Jack Sparrow 3

Statement by Jack Sparrow 3

Comments by others about the request concerning Jack Sparrow 3

Result concerning Jack Sparrow 3

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Straightforward breach of topic ban. Given the prior history of blocks for breach of 1RR and for block evasion through IPs, we don't need to suppose this was an accidental mistake or anything. Escalated block to 2 weeks for now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:07, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
- Changed to indef after this latest personal attack. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)