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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by ShalomShlomo (talk | contribs) at 06:58, 20 February 2006 (→Schach a Misnaged?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Name

He is often referred to as Elazar. Which one is correct? JFW | T@lk 17:51, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Eliezer got significantly more hits on Google (particularly among the English israeli press), so I used that as the standard. ShalomShlomo 23:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Elazar is the (only) correct version. Way to prove it: you must know the newspaper he himself founded, Yated Ne'eman. The paper has an (unofficial) online version as well - it contains about half the articles from the regular (weekly English Israeli) paper. I repeat, *he* himself founded this newspaper. A few links:

http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/archives5762/chayesara/ - from around his death " Maran HaGaon Hagodol HaRav Elozor Menachem Mann Shach, ztvk"l," Aside from that, just look at: http://www.google.com/search?q=Elazar+Shach+site%3Achareidi.shemayisrael.com&hl=en&lr= and http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Elozor+Shach+site%3Achareidi.shemayisrael.com . (It's spelled as Elazar or Elozor depending on the writer.) Okay... Now, next, I also looked for "Eliezer Shach" ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Eliezer+Shach+site%3Achareidi.shemayisrael.com ) and it gives quite a few results as well. Now *I* am confused as well. Still, I have recently read that (quote from memory): "His real name was Elazar. It is unknown from where the name Eliezer came, but his name was Elazar." I'm 100% sure it's Elazar, so you should change it. PS. The English-Israeli press (Haaretz etc.) are not exactly a good resource for these things, with all due respect to them (I read Haaretz myself). --Daniel575 19:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Daniel575- I used Eliezer because the majority of (English) resources I came across in print and the net used it. If you're convinced the other spelling is accurate, feel free to change it. I'm happy to use whatever spelling as long as we have some consistency between articles. ShalomShlomo 17:13, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

ShalomShlomo, if you're going to work on this article more, you will do better by quoting the Hareidi press with which Rav Schach affiliated, rather than Ha'aretz. My initial search on Google of "Menachem Man Shach hesped" turned up Dei'ah VeDibur (the English Yated Neeman here in Israel, which he also founded) and Aish.com, which are much more reliable interpreters of Rav Schach's activities than the secular, leftist Ha'aretz newspaper. As a subscriber to the English Yated, I can tell you that they are printing articles about Rav Schach nearly every week since his passing! Yoninah 19:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Yoninah, thanks for the sources. I knew Schach had a newspaper but was unaware it had an English translation. The page as it presently stands is hardly meant to be definitive; I created it because no one else had, and remembered seeing various Schach articles in Haaretz following his death. While I take your point that the haredi press are likely to certainly have more information regarding Schach's personality and teachings vis-a-vis the Torah world, outside perspectives can also be helpful, particularly relating to, for instance, analysis of Schach's political activities and astuteness, or his perception/legacy among non-haredi Israelis. The optimal solution, I think, would be to incorporate elements from both "types" of sources. The fact that I have yet to do so here is much more a function of a lack of time than it is any bias against the haredi press. I will certainly keep your comments in mind when working on this page in future. Of course, if anyone would care to help fill the various sections out a bit, that would be extremely helpful and appreciated, too. ShalomShlomo 00:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Schach a Misnaged?

Isn't true that Rabenu Shach was mitnagued!!!!! He just don't acept -like other jewish, even hasidic ones- what Chabad was/is doing! Bresolver 17:36, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Many of the resources I've come across on Schach either said he was misnaged, or at least mentioned that he was not hasidic. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Did he have a rebbe, for instance? Do his followers identify as Hasidism or Misnagdim? His rabbinical career seems to show strong affiliation with whatI understand are largely misnagdic yeshiva instutions, and I believe many of his influences were/are notable misnagdim. ShalomShlomo 20:45, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

ShalomShlomo: Being "not Hasidic" does not automatically make a person into a "misnaged"! In Eastern Europe, and in most non-Hasidic yeshivas today, the bulk of students often came from Hasidic homes. It's not as clear-cut as you imagine. For example, even in Rav Schach's case, you are obviously not aware that he studied and taught at Karlin (see article) when he was younger, and retained a fond connection with that group. And you should note that "misnagdim" basically do NOT self-identify as such. Usually it is used more in jest. Actually, the word "misnaged" has become something of a mild "slur" as it's used by certain (Hasidic) individuals who dislike people who object to those who oppose the extremes of Hasidism. IZAK 02:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

IZAK: Actually, if you check the history of the article, you'll see I started it and was the one who included the Karlin bit. Thanks for the refresher, though. Interesting tidbits aside, is there actually information suggesting Schach wasn't Misnagdic? Because, as I said, a lot of the material I've read about him (online and off) claimed he was, and separated him from the Hasidic rebbes in Israel, for instance. I was also under the impression that Schach's non-affiliation with Hasidism was one of the reason he formed Degel HaTorah. If he wasn't, then someone should write a section addressing this, as I did in the page about Rav Kook. Perhaps you should also write a paragraph or so about this in the various articles pertaining to Misnagdim, such as Mitnagdim and Hasidim and Mitnagdim. It could be very helpful and informative for Misplaced Pages users. ShalomShlomo 06:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC)