Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 128.138.41.190 (talk) at 14:32, 22 February 2006 (→Stop warning me and stop carrying out Chinese chauvinistic propaganda here!). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Photo

Could somebody reduce the resolution of the photo and re-upload it? It's a little too much... I'd do it myself, but I don't know how (yet)--141.54.164.174 23:00, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Disputed territory?

Very simple to answer the question about "Inner" Mongolia being a "disputed territory": Inner Mongolia or the southern part of Mongolia is currently a colony just same as Tibet (which includes not only TAR but all of so called "zang qv" in Qinghai, Gansu, Sichuan and Yunnan). China wasn't China untill 1911, but upon the liberation of themselves from the Manchu foreign rule, the Chinese claimed all the alien territories which for some centuries belonged to the empire of Manchurians but never that of *Chinese*. (And no offence - you guys were treated by the Manchus way much worse than they treated Mongols). There is abosolutely no difference between the case of Mongolia and Germany spllitting into two, Korea getting divided into two, Bengal into two and so on. This argument has much more validity than the Chinese claim over Formosa (Taiwan?).

In what way is Inner Mongolia a disputed territory? Is it claimed by the state of Mongolia? — Instantnood 18:13, Jan 29 2005 (UTC)

There is an independence movement. -- ran (talk) 23:39, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. — Instantnood 08:31, Jan 31 2005 (UTC)

Is this the one you referred to? — Instantnood 20:39, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

Yep. And there are others on the net too IIRC -- ran (talk) 15:26, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

Mongolian name

Does anybody know what the source of the mongolian name is? I cannot find any encoding on my PC that doesn't show the mongolian characters as question marks. I've installed all possible language packs I could find in Windows XP, SP2. Chinese, Japanse and Tibetan all displays correct. CyeZ 07:43, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You need a font that displays Mongolian letters... they are in Unicode and should display as long as you have a font that supports them. (Try using Firefox too, since IE has trouble finding the right font.) -- ran (talk) 15:47, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Inner Mongolia as a geographical region

This article talks about Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, but Inner Mongolia as an administrative division did not exist until the late 1940s. Before that, the geographical region of Inner Mongolia spanned across several provinces. The limits of the autonomous region have also been changed over the decades. Is there a convention on the limits of Inner Mongolia as a geographical region? Would it be Mongolia (region) minus Outer Mongolia, Hovd, Oyirad and Buriyad? Is there any remarkable difference between the limits of the autonomous region and the actual extent as a geographical region? — Instantnood 06:47, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Convention? The leagues of the Qing Dynasty, perhaps. Those would be modern Inner Mongolia minus Hulunbuir (Hailar), Xing'an (Ulaanhot), and Alashan, plus Josutu (Chaoyang, Liaoning). In any case, the borders claimed by the Inner Mongolia People's Party are those of modern Inner Mongolia. -- ran (talk) 07:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

That's a problem when writing about Japanese occupation of eastern part of Inner Mongolia (and Manchuria) before 1937.. It's ambiguous whether "Inner Mongolia" is talking about the pre-communist era geographical region, or the present day autonomous region. — Instantnood 08:24, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

What's the pre-communist era geographical region? If we take it as having included the Jirim, Juu Uda, and Josutu leagues, then those were parts of Manchukuo as well. -- ran (talk) 08:33, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

No idea. Just thinking how to take into account the ever changing limits of what the term "Inner Mongolia" referred to. — Instantnood 08:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I think it's safe to refer to modern Inner Mongolia as just "Inner Mongolia". We haven't run into too much trouble yet... -- ran (talk) 08:52, 3 November 2005 (UTC) You know what... I'll look a bit more into this topic. Thanks for bringing it up. -- ran (talk) 09:04, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I don't know much about that, except that I know from old maps Inner Mongolia did not exist as an administrative division until the late 1940s, and its border has been changed for several times. :-) — Instantnood 09:11, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I've added some more info. This is all I have at the moment, and to be honest, it is all rather patchy. But I guess it's better than nothing. -- ran (talk) 03:09, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. It's much better now. :-) — Instantnood 08:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Arranging of names

1. The Cyrillic represents Khalkha Mongolian, which isn't even the language spoken in Inner Mongolia! It's not a "Cyrillization" in the same way as the Romanization -- it doesn't even represent the same "system"! I would prefer for it to be not included at all, but if you have to be included, it should be kept separate from the official script of Inner Mongolia or its Romanization.
2. Traditional Chinese isn't official anywhere in Inner Mongolia. It should not come before Simplified Chinese.
3. As for whichever one goes first, we should follow the order used in official documents:

:

• "各级国家机关、人民团体的公文应当使用 蒙汉两种文字。"
• "自治区行政区域内的社会市面用文应当并用蒙汉两种文字。"
• etc.

Or take a look at this picture of the People's Congress of Inner Mongolia:

-- ran (talk) 00:57, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your information, Ran. I agree with your point that Traditional Chinese and Cyrillized Mongolian can be actually excluded in this case. So, the only things that have to added are: Simplified Chinese, Pinyin romanization for Chinese, Traditional Mongolian and romanization for Mongolian. The romanizations act as pronunciation guides. But I still think that it is a better idea for Chinese to come before Mongolian, as Chinese is the statewide official language, and "C" comes before "M" in the Latin alphabets. Should we put Mongolian first, just for the sake of the minor fact that the document reads "蒙汉", instead of "汉蒙"? :-)

Disclaimer: I have nothing against minorities and their native languages. -Alanmak 01:43, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Not just the document; take a look at the picture of the People's Congress of Inner Mongolia: . -- ran (talk) 02:28, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and there's this: 包头市社会市面蒙汉两种文字并用管理条例

第五条 社会市面并用的蒙汉两种文字，应当使用规范用字，并按下列规定书写、制作、挂放：

(一)横写的，蒙古文在上、汉文在下，或者蒙古文在前、汉文在后；

(二)竖写的，蒙古文在左、汉文在右；

(三)环形写的，从左向右蒙古文在外环、汉文在内环，或者蒙古文在左半环、汉文在右半环；

(四)蒙汉两种文字的字号、规格应当协调，制作的材质必须一致；

(五)蒙汉两种文字分别写在两块牌匾上的，蒙文牌匾挂在左边、汉文牌匾挂在右边，或者蒙文牌匾挂在上边、汉文牌匾挂在下边。

And this one has the same wording: 呼和浩特市社会市面蒙汉两种文字并用管理办法

-- ran (talk) 02:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Stop warning me and stop carrying out Chinese chauvinistic propaganda here!

What is "vandalism"? Why would you keep deleting the changes I made into the Southern Mongolia article? What happened to the wikipedia principle of everybody can make changes? What is your position or role at wikipedia if there is such a thing? Who you think you are? I'm a native Mongol so I at least know a lot more about my country than you do. Can't I express what I know? Who are you to preventing from doing that? And finally, stop carrying on Chinese government propaganda, biased chauvinistic brainwashing on wikipedia! Tell me if there is someone who sort of looks over you as a supervisor or whatever. I need to talk to them.

(This is not only to Ran, but, including him, those who are doing the things that I'm talking about)

You weren't just making changes, you were also removing content; nor were you editing in accordance with the Neutral Point-of-View (NPOV) policy. We welcome all edits and discussion as long as they work towards an NPOV presentation of topics. Unfortunately, your POV-pushing and removal of content fall far short of the standards that we follow. This is not just me saying so -- several other editors have also been reverting your edits.

Also, everyone is welcome to edit every single article in Misplaced Pages, as long as their edits are NPOV and can be backed up with sources. We do not give priority to anyone's edits simply because of their ethnic or cultural background.

Finally, no one oversees anyone on Misplaced Pages, and everything is decided through community discussion and consensus. If there is a disagreement with me or anyone else, you are welcome to ask other editors or on other talk pages for third opinions and mediation. -- ran (talk) 00:46, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Is following Chinese propaganda a "neutral point of view"? stop joking! several other? who? you guys brainwashed Chinese, and nothign else!

test.... 03:55, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Once again, I would strongly suggest that you review Misplaced Pages's NPOV policy, and look at how editors deal with other contentious articles like Taiwan and Tibet before continuing to make edits. Note that POV pushing is not a constructive way of editing Misplaced Pages.

One more thing: each of us has reverted 2 times in the last 72 hours. Misplaced Pages's "three-revert rule" states that any editor who reverts more than 3 times in 24 hours can be blocked temporarily from editing. So I would strongly suggest discussing the article and reaching a consensus rather than continuing the revert war. -- ran (talk) 05:15, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Wikidugaren,

Let me give you an example: calling it "Southern Mongolia" is POV because you make it sound like it's a region that should become part of Mongolia. This is similar to the name "South Azerbaijan", the name that Azeri nationalists use because they want to see a Greater Azerbaijan. Our only choice is to use the neutral term, with the name the reflects the country that it lies in, Iranian Azerbaijan. So, saying Inner Mongolia is neutral because it is more of a geographical term, not a political one. --Khoikhoi 05:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

And most importantly, since the ancient times the region of present-day Inner Mongolia has became multi-racial. Sovereignties of Chinese Warring states had reached the region long before Genghis_Khan found the first Mongol state in 1206. In short, historically it has never been a pure-Mongol country.--219.79.28.40 11:54, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, multi-racial but never you Chinese. Don't keep repeating your government-backed textbook views here. I had enough of it when I had to have it to insult my brain.

128.138.41.190 14:32, 22 February 2006 (UTC)