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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Asdfg12345 (talk | contribs) at 23:06, 18 February 2011 (→Request concerning PCPP: Added three diffs to stave off deletion, explanations and more diffs forthcoming.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

• WP:AE

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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. 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Vandorenfm

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Vandorenfm

User requesting enforcement

Twilightchill t 21:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Vandorenfm (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:AA2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. revert with inappropriate edit summary
2. subsequent unsubstantiated revert
3. further revert with the "vandalism" considerations
4. new revert with the accusations of "disruptive editing"

The continuous reverts look like an attempt to win the ongoing dispute. Seems to be a breach of Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Edit warring considered harmful and Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Assume good faith

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warning by Twilight Chill (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Revert restriction or any other sanction deemed appropriate

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Regarding Sandstein's comment below on request's reasons, I would note that because the aforementioned reverts fall under AA2 case, this board seems to be more appropriate rather than WP:ANEW, where edit-warrings are commonly reported. Given that WP:TBAN does not explicitly ban the AE requests and the AE notice that "most editors under ArbCom sanction... should be treated with the same respect as any other editor", I think this report is warranted: Vandorenfm's (as well as Gorzaim's) edits create unhealthy editorial atmoshphere in the Caucasian Albania article for a couple of days. Twilightchill t 22:41, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Vandorenfm

Statement by Vandorenfm

I do not see any reason for this request. User: Twilight Chill has been edit warring for which he was recently topic-banned for one year. In essence, he is trying here to accuse me in responding to his disruptive actions for which he got eventually banned. His removal of large portions of texts was courteously reverted with proper explanation and suggestions to cooperate. User: Twilight Chill refused to explain his actions , . In other words, he continued his unexplained “naked” reverts, claiming with no evidence and explanation that the text he kept removing violated WP:NPOV. And, as a result of his actions User: Twilight Chill was topic-banned for a year. His hands cannot be more unclean for this request.

Regarding the entire business of removing chapters from the article Caucasian Albania, the sysop/admin User:John Vandenberg wrote to User: Twilight Chill: “Twilight Chill, wrt your NPOV concerns, edit warring and removal of entire sections isn't appropriate. Historical revisionism is relevant to Caucasian Albania; maybe the section should be trimmed down a bit, but that should have been discussed on talk, noticeboards, etc., or a RFC if consensus can't be found. Removing it wasn't the right approach” . By this User:John Vandenberg confirmed that:

1. User: Twilight Chill was edit warring
2. Removal of entire sections isn't appropriate
3. Discussion of historical revisionism is relevant to the article on Caucasian Albania (in contrast to what some editors claim

I was simply following the admin User:John Vandenberg recommendation when I was trying to deal with “removal of entire sections,” that’s all.

When User: Twilight Chill got banned for one year for edit warring, “removal of entire sections” was being done by the veteran Azerbaijani editor User: Grandmaster. User: Grandmaster is a confirmed disruptive editor in Russian Misplaced Pages, currently blocked for 6 months: . User: Grandmaster was accused by Russian admins in being a mastermind behind a syndicate in which he coordinated actions of a dozen of Azerbaijani editors to disrupt multiple articles in Azerbaijani/Armenian topic area . I appeal to the admins to deal with User: Grandmaster in English-based wiki as well, and stop him asap because he may practice the same tricks here. And one of User: Grandmaster’s accomplices in Russian wiki was the same User: Twilight Chill also known as User: Brandmeister, . User: Twilight Chill has been banned from editing any topics related to Armenia/Azerbaijan in Russian wiki .

User: Twilight Chill’s first accusation called “revert with inappropriate edit summary” is baseless. Everyone can see that it was unclear why he removed an entire good and well sourced chapter from the article. He never explained what he was doing and why.

His second accusation called “subsequent unsubstantiated revert” is a false claim. “Unsubstantiated revert” was Twilight Chill’s, not mine. I corrected an unexplained disruption. I substantiated this revert on talk pages. And it was clear that User: Twilight Chill was edit-warring since he did not explain why he was reverting, for which he eventually got topic-banned for one year.

His third accusation called “further revert with the "vandalism" considerations” is unfounded. In “Types of vandalism” , under “Sneaky vandalism,” we read that vandalism is “reverting legitimate edits with the intent of hindering the improvement of pages.” The history of Caucasian AlbaniaI is an obscure topic by itself and, as, testified by numerous sources, people care about it because this issue is misused for political reasons in Azerbaijan. Azerbaijani authors were accused in the West and Russia of manipulating historical texts, and world readers should be aware of this phenomenon, and should know why that happens. Robert Hewsen, a historian from Rowan College and the acknowledged authority in this field, wrote in his volume Armenia: A Historical Atlas, published by Chicago University Press:

Scholars should be on guard when using Soviet and post-Soviet Azeri editions of Azeri, Persian, and even Russian and Western European sources printed in Baku. These have been edited to remove references to Armenians and have been distributed in large numbers in recent years. When utilizing such sources, the researchers should seek out pre-Soviet editions wherever possible. Robert Hewsen. “Armenia: A Historical Atlas. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2001, p. 291

By removing this chapter without any explanation User: Twilight Chill and User: Grandmaster were both “hindering the improvement of pages” as explained in “Types of vandalism” . In fact, I did not accuse anyone in vandalism directly, just hypothesized and warned that this, theoretically, can be seen as vandalism. But my courtesy remained unanswered.

The forth accusation “new revert with the accusations of "disruptive editing" unfounded as well. User: Grandmaster was indeed engaged in disruptive editing, removing an entire chapter several times , . Instead of detailing out what is wrong with the chapter and giving examples why what he says is true, User: Grandmaster explained his actions with this: “wiki articles are not a place for propaganda” . This is a violation of WP civility code. I suggested twice that User: Grandmaster may modify content if he feels it is incomplete or lopsided. But User: Grandmaster was not listening.

Overall, I was following/enforcing User:John Vandenberg’s assessment of the situation. User:John Vandenberg’s text is this .

I strongly disagree that "Vandorenfm's contribution history suggests an account created solely to make warlike partisan edits in the AA topic area." I have been unduly busy with this issue only because of disruptive behavior of banned members of Russian wiki like Grandmaster and Twilight Chill. They slow me down. I am a new user but have already create a page on Nor Varagavank.

Vandorenfm (talk) 03:15, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Additional Comments No 1

• My actions cannot be considered as edit warring since I was reverting bad faith edits of the banned User:Grandmaster, Russian Wiki's most notorious disruptive editor of all times , . The decision of the arbitration committee of Russian wiki says: "Арбитражный Комитет постановляет заблокировать учётную запись Grandmaster на 6 месяцев. В течение 6 месяцев после разблокировки на участника будет наложен запрет на редактирование спорных статей и ограничение на редактирование пространств Википедии, как описано в пункте 3 данного решения." That means: "Arbitration Committee decided to block the account Grandmaster for 6 months. During 6 months after the block is lifted, this participant will be banned for editing disputed articles for 6 months, per point 3 of this decision."
• To User:Sandstein: I took a seminar of how to edit Wiki run by a group of American volunteers. That's why I was brought up to speed so quickly, and could edit Wiki easily. Such seminars are a common practice on university campuses these days. Vandorenfm (talk) 17:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Vandorenfm

This is just to note that, unrelated to this request but because of the continued edit-warring which it partly reflects, I have applied article-level discretionary sanctions to Caucasian Albania, as described at Talk:Caucasian Albania#Discretionary sanctions.  Sandstein  21:45, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Something is clearly wrong here. We have 4 strange accounts, Xebulon (talk · contribs), Vandorenfm (talk · contribs), Gorzaim (talk · contribs) and Oliveriki (talk · contribs). They all started appearing one by one since November, and edit the same set of articles in AA area, the main focus being that about Caucasian Albania. Oliveriki is clearly a throwaway account created for the sole purpose of reverting, while Gorzaim is the one used for controversial editing, and the rest seem to be used for reverting and posting support comments for Gorzaim. It is interesting that Caucasian Albania is the same article that was a favorite target of a well-known sockmaster Verjakette/Paligun, and these CU results might give some idea about the scale of disruption: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Erkusukes and Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Paligun/Archive. Even the CU clerk noticed that something strange was going on, but the CU showed no connection between those accounts: However behavioral evidence is too strong to dismiss suspicions. Verjakette used open proxies to evade CU detection, so the socking was established only after a number of checks. It is also of interest that Gorzaim and Vandorenfm mostly do not edit on the same days, when one is gone, the other takes his place. It could be that it is one person changing his location, which allows him to evade CU. But the edits of those accounts are absolutely identical. I think the activity of these 4 accounts needs a thorough investigation, and in my opinion they clearly fail a duck test. Btw, yesterday this SPI request: proved that another puppeteer was involved in Caucasian Albania article, so we might be dealing with more than one sockmaster. Also, I think the article needs to be protected on a neutral version, and controversial parts can be included only when a broad consensus with involvement of third party editors is reached. The arbcom decision was clearly about consensual editing in AA area. Grandmaster 11:04, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

If it is a problem that this request was filed by the topic banned user, I can sign up for it, or resubmit it, because I think that the conduct of Vandorenfm deserves consideration. Grandmaster 08:21, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

2 days after the protection, the article reverted again by Gorzaim (talk · contribs), without any consensus. . As I understand the decision was that everybody is banned from that page. Grandmaster 20:25, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Comment by BorisG

I find it quite extraordinary that admins consider request by a topic-banned user. This rewards and encourages violations of the topic bans. Yes admins also block the filing party but this is clearly a penalty they are prepared to pay for having the rival party topic banned for a long time. We should avoid encouraging such behaviour. - BorisG (talk) 15:03, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Since this editor was banned from the entire area of the conflict, rather than from only editing articles on the subject, I agree with Boris. This should not be encouraged. Vandorenfm is clearly an SPA, but I am not sure if we have a clear policy about SPA, especially when they also make some constructive edits, as Vandorenfm did. Biophys (talk) 16:53, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I will look at wp:ru over the weekend. Feel free to move my comment. - BorisG (talk) 14:57, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Nothing of real interest except an article about Armenian terrorism and many other subjects that are much better developed on ruwiki than here. Rather than fighting, these editors should simply translate good materials from Russian.Biophys (talk) 18:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

OK, I am of the firm opinion that contributions from topic banned editors should not be considered, and this includes this request. I also note that it appears that this request was files after V commented on twighlight chill's appeal. I therefore think we should NOT be looking at the substance of this request. It is also not clear to me whether admins want me to look at wp:ru and what exactly they are interested in. If you want me to look, please pose specific questions, if any. Otherwise I will do something more useful. Cheers. - BorisG (talk) 01:35, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I have read the entire case and checked which of the sanctioned users are present on enwiki. I have e-mailed the list to EdJohnson. As for the translated version, obviously it is not proper English but should be clear in the main. I cannot edit the whole translation; I think it is unnecessary. If anyone is intersted in interpretation of a particular section or passage, I am happy to give one. Cheers. - BorisG (talk) 08:35, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Vandorenfm

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• Waiting for a statement by Vandorefm, but at first glance this looks like sanctionable edit-warring. But I note that the requesting editor is topic-banned from this area of conflict (User talk:Twilight Chill#Arbitration enforcement topic ban: Armenia and Azerbaijan), and this AE report is not one of the exceptions recognized in Misplaced Pages:BAN#Exceptions to limited bans. I ask him to provide reasons why he should not himself be sanctioned for violating his topic ban by making this enforcement request.  Sandstein  21:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
• I suggest that Vandorenfm be topic-banned from AA for three months, and that Twilight Chill be blocked one week for violating his own topic ban. Vandorenfm's contribution history suggests an account created solely to make warlike partisan edits in the AA topic area. Longer-term, putting full protection on Caucasian Albania for two months might be considered. Admins could still perform any edits which had consensus if they were requested via {{editprotect}}. A search of the AE archives for Caucasian Albania gets 23 hits. EdJohnston (talk) 23:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Accounts "created solely to make warlike partisan edits" should get an indef topic ban, if not an indef block. I find the recent number of ARBAA2 reports to be concerning. T. Canens (talk) 03:21, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure that Vandorenfm can accurately be described as a disruption-only account. They have created one useful article, Nor Varagavank (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - but one wonders that a user only registered since December 2010 and with very few other edits would be able to create such an article. At any rate, the evidence shows that Vandorenfm has been edit-warring to win a content dispute, by reintroducing a contested section four times, and his statement does not rebut this. The merits of the arguments for or against the section's inclusion are not relevant; one does not resolve such disputes by edit-warring. I support a topic ban on that basis. I am also issuing an enforcement block to Twilight Chill.  Sandstein  09:34, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
• Vandorenfm has made reference to ruwiki. I wonder if any enwiki admins have been following the AA disputes on the Russian wikipedia. It is not out of the question that we could pay some attention to the events there, especially regarding groups of people coordinating their edits, if there is a person fluent in both languages who can explain them. There was a Russian arbcom case that closed in August 2010, called 'Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Azerbaijani mailing list'. I see that the list of case participants includes some familiar names. Can anybody help interpret that case for us? EdJohnston (talk) 05:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Reading the Gtranslated version, it seems to be an EEML-style mailing list used for coordinated edit warring and canvassing. T. Canens (talk) 05:14, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
    • Can you post that translation somewhere? (It's an automated derivative work of CC-BY-SA text, so ought to be CC-BY-SA also.) I can't get Google to translate the full page.  Sandstein  18:30, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
      • User:Timotheus Canens/sandbox. T. Canens (talk) 20:53, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
        • Thanks. I'm not sure how this Russian case applies to this request, or falls within the remit of AE at all, unless somebody can show evidence that the same people are coordinating their edits on this Misplaced Pages also. Although the Wikimedia projects are normally considered separate for dispute resolution purposes, I believe we should take ArbCom-established misconduct on another project into account when deciding how to address misconduct on our project.  Sandstein  21:57, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
          • I'm not sure that we should. For the purposes of sanctioning editors, we historically have considered only evidence of misconduct on the English Misplaced Pages. This is because: 1) editors can behave differently on different projects (because whilst, for instance, on one project he might be being hounded by a troll gang and thus have been banned, on this one he might not be working with such problematic peers); 2) allowing misconduct on one project to affect an editor's standing on another ruins the paradigm of allowing editors to prove their good intentions on another wiki (much as commons and simple does for us).

            I would make an exception if, per above, there are possibly cross-wiki tag-teams; but I am unconvinced that we could explore such a complicated allegation in a simple thread on AE (without at least creating a sub-page). AGK 14:39, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

  • I suggest we go ahead and close this with a warning to Vandorenfm that he may be topic-banned from AA unless he shows by his actions that he is willing to work patiently for consensus. (The warning will be logged in the case). TwilightChill should, as I suggested above, be blocked one week since filing this report was not allowed by his topic ban. The brief mention of the Russian arbcom decision above will, I hope, cause editors who may have been involved in AA disputes on the other wikipedia to use caution here. Sandstein has imposed article-level discretionary sanctions at Caucasian Albania which ought to help with the disputes on that article. EdJohnston (talk) 15:42, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
    • Edit-warring is still edit-warring. I would prefer to impose a brief topic ban on Vandorenfm, but if you want to close this with only a warning, I won't object.  Sandstein  14:33, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Night w

Grandmaster

NPz1

Tentontunic

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Tentontunic

User requesting enforcement

TFD (talk) 03:51, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Tentontunic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:DIGWUREN#Discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 20:07, 16 February 2011 (And remove POV tag, silly to have had it here since 2009.)
2. 23:33, 16 February 2011 (Absolutely no justification for this given. Pure hyperbole.)

Edit-warring on article covered by Digwuren sanctions under 1RR. I set up a discussion thread in the article talk page.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. "Not applicable."

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Block or warning

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I note that Tentontunic has self-reverted. I therefore no longer see any need for further action. TFD (talk) 12:58, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Sandstein:

Although Tentontunic says "The Four Deuces edits appear to be to remove content", the edits were to restore POV tags that had been removed without consensus on July 10, October 3, Dec 1 and Feb 16. In all cases there was discussion on the talk page in which I participated. None of these discussions led to a consensus to remove the POV tag. There is currently a new discussion about the neutrality of the article. Since the article has been nominated for deletion 5 times, has 25 archived talk page discussions, is under 1RR (and Digwuren), and has had administrators attempting to resolve disputes, it would seem that there is a dispute over neutrality. The tags have been in place since the article began, and numerous other editors have replaced them when they have been removed. TFD (talk) 15:14, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I will now look through the edit history of the article. Could you please allow me time to find the examples. TFD (talk) 16:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Below are examples of other editors restoring the POV tags during the period under discussion. I do not know if this is an exhaustive list.

• July 10 - Verbal
• Sep. 5 - Big Hex
• Oct. 3 - Igny
• Oct. 3 - Giftiger wunsch
• Oct. 4 -Igny
• Oct. 12 - Igny
• Dec. 3 - Petri Krohn
• Dec. 3 AndyTheGrump
• Dec. 9 - Igny
• Dec. 9 - Igny

TFD (talk) 19:12, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Tentontunic - Igny was blocked 3 minutes after the 1RR violation. I did not log into Misplaced Pages on that day. TFD (talk) 20:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Reply to Martintg - your account of my previous report to AE is incorrect. I had not "also reverted" and in fact had not edited that article for four weeks before the edit-war leading to the report. While there was edit-warring on both sides involving four editors, I only reported one editor because he was the only one who had been issued a Digwuren warning. I did not for example report User:Mamalujo, although he had made the same edits as the user I reported. TFD (talk) 21:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.

Discussion concerning Tentontunic

Statement by Tentontunic

Is removing a tag which has been forcibly kept on the article since 2009 really a revert? The Four Deuces appears to have ownership issues on articles relating to communism. Having now looked at the article history it seems he has had a slow motion edit war going since at least july 2010 In fact all of The Four Deuces edits appear to be to remove content. Now contrast this behaviour with his actions on left wing terrorism. He removes a POV tag within hours of it being added to the article This is an article he has edit warred uncited content, including BLP violations into the article. I would ask administrators to look at the Communist terrorism article history as well. Tentontunic (talk) 08:23, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I have also self reverted Which makes this request moot. Tentontunic (talk) 09:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

It appears IGNY has one less than The Four Deuces. The Four Deuces, might I ask, did you report IGNY for his breaking of the 1R on the 9th of december? Tentontunic (talk) 19:30, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Tentontunic

Considering TFD's problems above (where he narrowly escaped sanctions), this is not an action which could remotely defuse anything at all. It looks more strongly like "I escaped, but I will make sure you don't" than anything else (a neat variety of Wikilawyering at best, and an example of the problem noted in the prior case at worst). Note also the relative size of the article in 2009 and its current size. Collect (talk) 11:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree with AGK that editing this article has become a problem. Some people even place the jokes by Ann Coulter that Darwinism was responsible for the killings . This should stop.Biophys (talk) 20:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Another article to which an AE report lodged by TFD against an editor resulted in an article based sanction when it was found that TFD and others had also reverted. Given TFD's apparent propensity to report only his opponents for reverting while ignoring the behaviour of his allies, indicates a certain tendentiousness in making these complaints. I've lost count of the number of AE reports TFD has submitted in the past year, but this excessive use of this board to get an upper hand in content disputes seems to indicate a certain battleground mentality. Perhaps some kind of restriction on submitting AE reports for TFD may be in order here. --Martin (talk) 21:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Tentontunic

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• In view of the self-revert I do not think that a sanction is needed at this time, but may well be imposed if the situation repeats. I invite The Four Deuces to give reasons why he should not himself be sanctioned for slow-motion editwarring as per the diffs provided by Tentontunic (I note that the most recent revert, , took place a few days ago).  Sandstein  14:28, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• The Four Deuces, can you please provide diffs of any occasions of someone else but you re-adding the "POV" tag to the article?  Sandstein  16:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• I see that, somewhat recently, the POV tag has been added and removed by users other than Tentontunic and The Four Deuces (hence TFD). To every editor of the Mass killings under Communist regimes article, I would stress the importance of focussing on the actual content of the article and of never edit-warring over unimportant things like an "Article has POV problems" messagebox. Having done a brief, preliminary evaluation of the recent history of this article, it seems to me that a drastic re-focus is needed: I see copious reversion—all of which is quite vociferous—when measured talk page discussion (or alternative methods of dispute resolution, such as mediation or requests for comment) is what is needed.

  I am inclined to say that we ought to apply discretionary sanctions of some form to this article, such as a novel form of probation that would allow us to immediately ban from the article any editor who uses reversion over discussion more than once (as the standard 1RR, that results in short blocks for violations, seems to not be working). AGK 17:40, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• I agree. Do you think that a sanction similar to the one described at Talk:Caucasian Albania#Discretionary sanctions (that article had similar problems) would work? Alternatively, or additionally, we could require that no editor may revert the same action (or a substantially similar action) more than once.  Sandstein  22:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Ryoung122

PCPP

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning PCPP

User requesting enforcement

Asdfg12345 21:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

PCPP (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Falun Gong discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

(See below.)

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. previous AE report 2010-03
2. notification of sanctions by Stifle (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

<Your text>

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

(Moved to #Comment by filing editor concerning PCPP.)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Comment by filing editor concerning PCPP

For a long time now PCPP (talk · contribs) has been engaging in disruptive editing activity on Falun Gong related articles and any articles that include content related to Falun Gong. He does it with other articles related to the Chinese Communist Party, but Falun Gong appears to be his forte. As for evidence, his edit history is probably the best possible example: most Falun Gong-related edits are disruptive, very few of them are about adding new information, and nearly every single one of them is about degrading or simply deleting information that is unfavorable to the Chinese Communist Party. I suggest simply looking at his history.

But the specific "incident" I want to highlight here happened on the List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll. See the history and discussion. The point is this: he is opposed by three editors who find it legitimate to include information about the persecution/genocide against Falun Gong in the article about alleged genocides. A judge ordered an arrest warrant against Jiang Zemin and Luo Gan, leaders of the persecution, and called it a genocide. That is in this article. There was other media, too.

PCPP has already done three reverts on this page within a few hours.

He has been doing this for a long, long time. Please check his edit history on this topic. His primary method is to be aggressive and edit war. When he does discuss things it is never substantial. He throws out a few sentences, sometimes irrelevant, and continues in the same vain. Meanwhile other editors (including myself) present long explanations for their thinking and changes. He ignores it all and just deletes the stuff he doesn't like. Editing the pages becomes extremely tiring.

Here is a long list of his biased editing that I made a long time ago. Since then he has done much of the same. He came within a hair's breadth of being banned a couple of years ago, and has only gotten worse since then. It is my neglect that has allowed this to simmer for so long. I think it is extremely clear that this editor should no longer be involved in anything related to Falun Gong, and I believe the other editors, when they hear of this motion, will be greatly relieved that something is finally happening. I know of at least three other editors who take an interest in the Falun Gong articles that, from what I can tell, are fed up with PCPP's disruptive behaviour.

Falun Gong is one of the articles on probation. PCPP is a longtime disruptive editor who has now just done three reverts against the consensus (two explicit, one implicit) of three other editors for including reliably sourced information. He should simply be banned indefinitely from the pages, and I don't think anyone who edits the articles will disagree.

Background

• Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Falun_Gong
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive57#PCPP

Comments by other editors

(I take the liberty to simply collect these from different places and present them here, but I hope others take a look and weigh in directly.)

• PCPP, your edits to this page recently are uniquely disruptive. I cannot but wonder what your intention is; if you desire to see the page contain a level and honest description of events and views, I must inform you that your participation so far is not conducive to this end. Instead, the level of aggression and persistent POV-pushing that you display derails any substantive conservation and leads other editors to turn on you. Prior to your arrival here, we were in the midst of a substantive discussion on how to improve the article, and were in the process of reaching agreements on some changes. You then proceeded to revert these changes without discussion. They were restored and explained, but before the discussion could continue, you then reverted wholesale again. This time you offered minimal discussion in which you made several specious arguments that you failed to substantiate or defend... I similarly do not appreciate that you cannot be taken at your word; I realize now that it is necessary to check your edit summaries against your various difs. You also misrepresent the rationale cited by other editors for their changes. Now, I can assume good faith and believe that these are innocent mistakes, and part of me is inclined to do this. But I am beginning to suspect that there is a certain amount of deliberate disruption and deception here. You may consider taking a step back from these articles and going for a nice long walk. Homunculus (duihua) 16:44, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
• I just saw this after the shock I got in the recent kerfuffle. Completely agree. I actually wish he would just go away. All PCPP does is POV-push, and he's done it for years (looking at the RfC someone compiled a while ago). I will actually stop editing that page if it keeps it up, so you can't say his tactics don't work. —Zujine, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
• A final note, just to make sure this is not forgotten: I appreciate Silk's positive view of things, but I was monitoring the page before I began editing and commenting, so I saw how it unfolded: PCPP has been absolutely disruptive all the way along. You'll notice the amount of ink other editors have spilled tripping over themselves trying to explain their highly reasonable edits, and the throwaway remarks PCPP makes in response, along with either constant reverts, or what cumulatively amount to reverts. I have been frustrated by this editor, and I can only imagine others have. I know we're not supposed to name names, etc., but this must be pointed out because I don't want a repeat of it. All the changes that he/she resisted have actually been made, they are entirely reasonable, the only difference is that X amount more time was wasted because of his/her stubborn resistance. I won't say more on it for now, but if the problem flares up again I will even more unimpressed. —Zujine, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I urge someone to look into the matter and make the appropriate judgement. I will alert PCPP now. --Asdfg12345 20:22, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Note: I have copied the above from Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive editing on topic on probation. - 2/0 (cont.) 21:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

(Administrative note) I've moved the above content to its own section due to your statement's length. Having all that squashed in at the top alongside the request information wasn't pretty at all. Hope that's okay with you, Asdfg and 2/0. AGK 21:34, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Discussion concerning PCPP

Statement by PCPP

Sigh, I consider this a bad faith attempt by Asdfg to rid of me. He was previously given a 6 month topic ban on the Falun Gong articles by AR on the evidence of numerous editors, in which Sandstein found him to be a "single purpose account dedicated to editing articles related to Falun Gong so as to make that movement appear in a more favorable light, and that he has repeatedly participated in edit wars to that" and is "more committed to promoting Falun Gong than to our encyclopedic mission, which makes his contributions detrimental to that mission." Clearly, his editing patterns still reflect that.

The edit war on the List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll article was again instigated by his problematic editing. The ordeal of Falun Gong in China is a contested topic, and Asdfg inserted controversial material classifying the repression of FLG as "genocide", a term not agreed by any serious sources on the topic such as scholar David Ownby, and human rights organizations such as Amnesty International. The source he used comes from a local court decision in Argentina and Falun Gong's own website, which fails RS. I noted these on the talk page, but Asdfg joined in by issuing personal attacks against me during a talk page discussion with another editor . He referred to me as a "disruptive troll that does not care about the encyclopedia or any objective standard of research" and that I'm "here to push CCP propaganda and that's it."--PCPP (talk) 21:37, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning PCPP

Personally I find all this very unsavory. But I am involved, so I should probably speak up.

In my various interactions with PCPP, I have tried to hold my tongue and avoid accusations of bad faith. This is not because I have the slightest regard for this individual, though, or for his intentions. I have encountered this editor on several articles related to either Communist Party history or Falun Gong, and have found him to be exclusively concerned with massaging the image of the Communist Party and maligning Falun Gong, in spite of any facts that may stand in the way.

I cannot recall one instance in which he contributed in a productive way, let alone an objective way, to these articles. He mainly deletes content, and when challenged, he is typically unable to offer a reasonable defense for doing so. He does make numerous weak attempts to justify his edits, consuming much time; his recent reverts on List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll is a good example of how he’ll delete with one excuse, and when it is shot down, he will simply embrace another justification for deletion, and another, and another... By the end, he is arguing that Falun Gong should not be on a list of genocides because the National Endowment for Democracy is an American propaganda agency, or because David Ownby has not said it is a genocide (even though Ownby states that he is not an expert on the human rights issues related to Falun Gong, but instead on the religious and historical context surrounding it). It's exhausting.

As inhumane as it may be, my problem is not with this editor’s ideological bias per se. Nor do I care that he has recently taken to accusing me of bad faith. My problem is with the means he uses to advance his point of view, which include blanket and repeated reversions without discussion, editing against consensus, leveling personal attacks against editors who disagree with his aggressive behavior, misrepresenting sources, cloaking controversial edits under innocuous edit summaries, and deleting anything that does not comport with his view of the world.

I can imagine that cognitive dissonance is a difficult thing to live with. It’s hard to accept that Mao Zedong is not a saint, and that innocent people are victimized by the Communist Party. But I would recommend that the best way to cope is to try accepting facts, rather than deleting them from wikipedia in a vain and annoying attempt to shape the world to accord with one’s personal beliefs.

Asdfg was concerned that in filing this request for arbitration, PCPP would attempt to distract from his own behavior by drawing attention to Asdfg’s history. I was prepared to file this request in his stead, because I do not want the conversation to be derailed. I have wasted enough time unpacking the specious arguments that PCPP offers to support his indefensible position on these topics. Homunculus (duihua) 22:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning PCPP

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• The instructions for AE requests require that a list of diffs of allegedly sanctionable edits be provided. Because this request does not include any such diffs, I intend to close it as not actionable without any consideration on the merits.  Sandstein  22:11, 18 February 2011 (UTC)