Talk:Gaelic Athletic Association

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November 24, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
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British GAA and constitution

Did the ban on members of the British security services extend even to the British GAA? As far as I know most of the clubs were started by immigrants to places like London, Manchester and Leeds, especially since the 1950s. But it doesn't seem too much of a stretch that some of those would join the local police. - Yorkshirian (talk) 18:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

It was an Official Guide rule so it would have applied to members worldwide, but I don't think it would have applied to local constabularies in Britain. Depends on how the rule was worded. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 19:18, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The local police in Britain where not considered British security forces . While the RUC and the British army where . Gnevin (talk) 12:07, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Garrison games

, the reference quoted says up to 1970 the reference backs up the claim for the usage of the words Garrion games not the entire sentence Gnevin (talk) 13:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Can you please fix your grammar? It's very hard to understand what you're trying to say sometimes. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 18:34, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

In a nut shell the reference doesn't back up the claim that In particular, sports associated with British origin are particularly frowned upon Gnevin (talk) 20:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I've added another reference which hopefully helps. Mooretwin (talk) 21:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the relevance of the reference . It doesn't prove GAA usage of the term or that the GAA have this attitude as an organisation . Just that some people who may or may not be GAA members may have this attitude Gnevin (talk) 22:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I've qualified it to refer to GAA followers, as per the source (which uses the word "lovers"). Mooretwin (talk) 22:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

What is the relevance ? One minute we are talking about Rule 42 the next we are attempting to wedge in a comment about the fans? Also I'm a GAA and Rugby fan . I'm not frowning. The line are particularly frowned upon amongst GAA-followers if we decide it is relevant it needs to be word like are frowned upon amongst some GAA-followers Gnevin (talk) 23:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The source says "long derided by lovers of Gaelic sport as English-imposed "garrison games". I'm happy if you just want to use that verbatim. I'm not attached to "frowned upon". Mooretwin (talk) 23:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes but the source tars with the one brush. It's too general. I also still don't see the relevance to Rule 42 Gnevin (talk) 23:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

By all means, find another source that doesn't tar all with one brush. Is Rule 42 not the ban on garrison games? Mooretwin (talk) 23:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok added that its a common name but removed the POV Gnevin (talk) 00:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Seems ok. Mooretwin (talk) 00:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Page numbers please

Can we please have page numbers added to the reference (Cronin) or the following claim:

...where the sport is played almost exclusively by members of the mainly Catholic nationalist community, stressing political aspirations that champion the cause of an Irish Republic and that excludes the broad Protestant unionist population.

--Eamonnca1 (talk) 21:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

pp.25-26 Mooretwin (talk) 22:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Referencing claims of popularity

Gaelic football and hurling are the most popular activities promoted by the organisation, and the most popular sports in the country in terms of attendances and second only to (Association) football in terms of participation .
I've tagged the latter two as not being in the refs. given. The ESRI report is a primary source. No page reference is given, though it may be assumed the (incorrect) conclusion is drawn from table 3.4 on p22. The phrase used in the article misrepresents the source. Regarding the last ref. from the FAI (and based on an unspecified ESRI report), we again have an 'apples and oranges' situation, but in any case the assertion that the main sports promoted by the GAA, namely football and hurling are "second only" to Association football is not backed up. Sloppy referencing at best. Can the article wording be edited to reflect the references accurately, or more appropriate references applied, or the unverified claims removed please. RashersTierney (talk) 10:44, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Happily: you and I have both made clear in edit notes why the cited document does not support the text, and the IP contributor has simply rplied with something approaching paranoia. Kevin McE (talk) 18:35, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Re. the statement "Gaelic football and hurling are ... the most popular sports in the country in terms of attendances", the reference doesn't support this as far as I can see (I would also query whether the source is a reliable one). Under the "Achievements" section, the reference to back up the statement "The Gaelic games of hurling and football are also the most popular spectator sports in Ireland" refers only to the Republic of Ireland, therefore I propose that the sentence be amended to make this clear. I suspect they are the most popular attendance-wise in the whole island, but there is no reference to support this. (Mooretwin (talk) 20:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

This source - Sports image rights in Europe by Ian Stewart Blackshaw, Robert C. R. Siekmann p161 seems to back the substantive claim, and also appears to be a WP:RS. Wording would need to be slightly tweaked accordingly. RashersTierney (talk) 00:58, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it is discussing only the Republic, notwithstanding the chapter title. Mooretwin (talk) 12:41, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that's a fair observation. Whats broadly under discussion in this source is legal issues particular to specific jurisdictions. RashersTierney (talk) 12:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, and the following references to "soccer" relate only to the South. Mooretwin (talk) 13:01, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

John Taylor of the UUP did say some ten years ago that the GAA is the "largest sports organisation in Northern Ireland" and therefore their funding from the British state of £300,000 was understandable. What sports organisation is more popular or supported than the GAA in the North? 86.44.62.128 (talk) 20:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

RM about GAA

There is a rm here Gnevin (talk) 20:44, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Numbers of volunteers etc.

There appears to be a discrepancy and some dubious claims in this article regarding numbers. The lede states there are 1 million members out of an island population of 6.2 million. Then the section entitled "Achievements" states there are 800,000 members. Which number is accurate? Secondly, the infobox states there are 1 million volunteers but does not provide references. I would seriously doubt this number is accurate. Out of a population of 6.2 million on the island a guaranteed 1 million (Ulster Unionists) are not involved, we know that roughly 60,000 people are born in the Republic every year, and as I doubt under-5s could be counted as volunteers that leaves a further 300,000 discounted. There are also approximately 250,000 immigrants with little or no contact with the GAA. We also have to take into consideration that there are many who have no interest in the GAA, as well as those who do support the GAA but do not volunteer. If we take all the numbers into account we are looking at every 4th or 5th person in the entire country volunteering for the GAA. Basically I think the number in the infobox may represent the number of members, but the number of volunteers is likely far smaller. I, for example, am a member of a local GAA club, but in no way am I a volunteer, although I would like to be if I had the time. Is there any references for the claim that 1 million people are volunteers? --MacTire02 (talk) 16:44, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Persons of unionist background involved with the GAA certainly represent the exception not the rule. There are some though despite what you make it sound like.

Anyway, I too doubt the GAA has a million actual volunteers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.153.235 (talk) 12:21, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I joined the GAA when I was in national school, about the age of 5 but at most 6. I'm probably still on the books even though I haven't played in 20 years. I'm OK with that as the GAA does a huge amount for my local community. I don't think this article gives enough space to the social and cultural aspects of the GAA. 86.44.62.128 (talk) 20:16, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Article here says "Few organisations in Ireland can match the Gaelic Athletic Association for breadth, scope and scale. It has 6,000 officers at all levels and total membership in excess of half a million people." --Eamonnca1 (talk) 23:15, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Seems that there are two parallel issues here: the actual number (inexcess of half a million/800,000/1 million have all been mentioned here), and the designation of people as "volunteers". A clear citation is required for one of the number claims, but an alternative phrase seems necessary to replace "volunteers": it is at best open to misinterpretation, and the purpose of an encyclopaedia is to inform, not to confuse. People do not gat paid to turn up and cheer for their parish team, but that does not make their status as supporters "volunteers". Kevin McE (talk) 06:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I've taken a stab at this Gnevin (talk) 13:02, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Cultural background

This isn't a big deal but why does GNevin think the title "Cultural background" makes no sense? It makes perfect sense to me. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 17:05, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

It makes no sense in that context. I would expect a section called Cultural background to discussion Scór etc not deal with controversial rules and sectarianism Gnevin (talk)

Official Guide

The following text has been re-added:

Today, the preamble of the GAA Official Guide contains the statement, "Since she has no control over all the national territory, Ireland’s claim to nationhood is impaired". The "basic aim" of the GAA is "the strengthening of the National Identity in a thirty-two county Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes." Rule 17b limits membership to those "who subscribe to and undertake to further the aims and objects of the Gaelic Athletic Association, as stated in the Official Guide."

This is simply a statement of the rules in the Official Guide and not a criticism of them. WP:CRIT says "Explicitly calling such statements "criticism" in the text of the article without any serious reason to do so (ie, if they are not negative criticism) can result in a violation of Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view." User:mooretwin should either revert the edit warring or provide a citation that actually says something critical about these rules from a notable source. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 21:46, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Recent controversial incidents

Would User:mooretwin please make up his mind about whether or not it is appropriate to include an exhaustive list of recent controversial incidents on a wiki page. On this page he thinks it is, on Linfield FC he thinks it is not. It's very hard to figure out the correct etiquette on wiki when established editors don't show a bit of consistency. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 22:13, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Consistency should be shown on both articles. We shouldn't favour one over the other.

On the edits in general Eamonnca1; "Nationalism and claims of sectarianism" is hardly cumbersome in the slightest and appropriately describes the sections contents. We should strive for accurate headings, not ones that sound like a cover up or downplay. Like how is it anymore cumbersome than "The Gaelic Athletic Association in the twentieth century"? Mabuska 12:41, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Number of controversially named clubs/cups

Once again User:mooretwin has chosen to edit war rather than use the talk page. This time he's trying to censor the fact that the number of GAA clubs and competitions with controversial names is 'relatively small.' In a previous version of this article he diligently trawled the web looking for every controversial or almost controversial name he could find and listed them in the article. It came to a grand total of about ten clubs. Hardly an impressive figure given the hundreds of GAA clubs throughout the world. That sounds 'relatively small' to me. If he continues with his refusal to communicate on this then I'll go ahead and revert his edit. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 20:19, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

May be relatively small but its still notable and should be included to show that there is such an element. Mabuska 22:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree, but there's nothing wrong with saying that it's a small number. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 00:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Except that it's not a small number, either in absolute or relative terms! There are dozens, if not hundreds, of GAA competitions, grounds and clubs named after Irish nationalists and Irish republicans. The article refers to "some", which is the most neutral word to use - it doesn't indicate large numbers or small numbers. Mooretwin (talk) 09:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Unless you have a source Eamonnca1 that its a small number then its synthesis and original research and should be avoided. We shouldn't add in statements without evidence. Mabuska 11:21, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Agree Mabuska but on the same note we shouldn't add in clubs unless strong evidence says it's controversially named (Lynch's being on the only one the springs to mind). Are there really people who are offended by The Maguire Cup, O'Connells , Davitts or Parnells ? Gnevin (talk) 16:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Who mentioned controversial? All the article says is that some GAA competitions, grounds and clubs are named after Irish nationalists and Irish republicans. Mooretwin (talk) 22:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Gnevin wiped most of the text. I assume he didn't read my post above and I have reverted. Gnevin's rationale for removing text isn't valid. Mooretwin (talk) 23:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I read your post I just don't agree with it.You need to prove the name has alienated the Protestant community Gnevin (talk) 23:54, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

^ "GAA Official Guide" (PDF). Retrieved 2008-07-28.

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