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Revision as of 12:13, 21 March 2011 by John Vandenberg (talk | contribs) (Undid revision 419959012 by John Vandenberg (talk): gosh, he isnt banned)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) Arbitration Committee proceedings Case requests
Request name Motions Initiated Votes
Jagged 85 RFC/U and cleanup   21 March 2011 {{{votes}}}
Henri Coanda defamation - second try   18 March 2011 {{{votes}}}
Duke53   16 March 2011 {{{votes}}}
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Jagged 85 RFC/U and cleanup

Initiated by Aquib (talk) at 02:03, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Involved parties


Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Aquib american muslim

An appeal rejecting

  1. The force and validity of the Jagged 85 RFC/U
  2. Certain actions taken under its alleged authority
  3. Policies and procedures emanating from it

hereafter referred to collectively as the Jagged 85 cleanup,

recognizing some parties to the RFC/U may neither be aware of nor condone the actions in question,

asking for neither the exoneration of Jagged 85, nor sanctions against any other individual, but rather that order be imposed upon the Jagged 85 cleanup, as follows

Effective immediately, and for the duration of this appeal
  1. The truncations, redirects, movements and renames of articles citing for their reason, or on behalf of, the Jagged 85 cleanup be temporarily reversed or undone by those who initiated these actions
  2. That all known participants in the Jagged 85 cleanup be disclosed
  3. That all activities (as in 1 above) to-date be disclosed by all participants in the Jagged 85 cleanup as per the article tracking procedures identified in the Jagged 85 RFC/U
  4. That cleanup participants be enjoined from citing the Jagged 85 cleanup, including any alleged policies and procedures emanating from it, as either a justification for their actions, or as a manner of compelling other parties to follow procedures other than those of Misplaced Pages
  5. That due diligence be enforced with regards to the removal of cited material; that expediency, a lack of cleanup resources, and the Jagged 85 cleanup are not valid reasons in themselves
And upon deliberation

The original Jagged 85 RFC/U be either

  1. reheard
  2. modified to incorporate some or all of the above temporary measures
  3. set aside in order for a novel and more balanced approach to be taken to cleaning up any biased, misleading or erroneous material added by Jagged 85.
Claims
  1. An RFC/U, as an agreement between a limited number of parties, and applying to the actions of a user, cannot trump Misplaced Pages policies and custom, nor can it be imposed on the community at large.
  2. The agreement reached under RFC/U has since been repudiated by Jagged 85
  3. The RFC/U has evolved beyond its original intent and agreed procedures
  4. It has on occassion been cited as a pretext for abuse
  5. The scope of the violations commited by Jagged 85 is debatable, unknown and perhaps unknowable
  6. The RFC/U has been used as a reason to close or preclude debate of issues and control other's editing
  7. The members of the Jagged 85 cleanup are not addressable as a group; the effort has lost its centralization and cohesion. Effective compromise between the parties is not achievable in this environment.
The detrimental effects of which include
  1. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater
  2. The replacement of verifiability with judgments on validity based on the appearance of plausibility , which can lead to mistakes
  3. The inadvertent promotion of sneaky vandalism
  4. Leveraging of the RFC/U by outside parties to advance other legitimate, but equally unbalanced, points of view
  5. The truncation, movement and/or redirection of articles, the content of which is of an unknown quality ,
  6. A lack of discussion of specifics, through which the normal policies and procedures of the encyclopedia might effectively operate
  7. The exclusion of other points of view, particularly those of disinterested third parties, from the actual cleanup process
  8. A lack of attention to WP policies, procedures and guidelines which, if left unchecked, can become more widespread.

Statement by Syncategoremata

Statement by SteveMcCluskey

Statement by Knight1993

Statement by Gun Powder Ma

There isn't really much to say other than that Jagged85, who has been one of the 60 most active WP editors until last year, has done over the years a colossal damage to WP with his Islamic WP:POV, WP:OR, and WP:SYN, and that this damage has been cleaned-up yet only to a small extent despite the efforts of around half a dozen users or more. To give uninvolved users an idea, just two days ago I stumbled at List of inventions in medieval Islam across this piece from Jagged's pen (bold is mine):

  • Central heating through underfloor pipes: The hypocaust heating system used by the Romans continued to be in use around the Mediterranean region during late Antiquity and by the Umayyad caliphate. By the 12th century, Muslim engineers in Syria introduced an improved central heating system, where heat travelled through underfloor pipes from the furnace room, rather than through a hypocaust. This central heating system was widely used in bath-houses throughout the medieval Islamic world.

When I looked up the reference, however, I found the cited author Hugh N. Kennedy writing something very different:

In one respect, however, the early Islamic bath had more in common with the classical one than with the later Islamic. Late antique and Umayyad bath builders continued to use the hypocaust, though on a reduced scale, for heating the hot chamber, whereas later Muslim baths used a simpler system of underfloor pipes from the furnace room.

So, a simpler system, used on a reduced scale, became in Jagged's interpretation an "improved system widely used"... That such misinterpretations were rather the rule than the exception and that they all went most predictably in favour of inflating Islamic achievements, can be seen at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jagged 85/Evidence where a group of editors collected a representative sample. It's been 60.000 edits, very many like that, and only a small part of it has been reviewed and reassessed. Many articles where Jagged85 is the main contributor have been tagged for years. These articles need to be stubbed and rewritten such as Mathematics in medieval Islam recently was. If this arbitration case should serve a useful purpose, we should discuss and vote on which of the other articles now need to be stubbed. Here a small selection: Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jagged 85/Evidence#Top contributor on tagged articles. Regards Gun Powder Ma (talk) 10:07, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I put my proposal now on the table. Participants of the ongoing aarbitration are invited to take part in this vote concerning the clean-up effort in connection with Jagged 85's RFC/U. Regards Gun Powder Ma (talk) 11:48, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Athenean

Statement by David J Wilson

Statement by J8079s

Statement by Spacepotato

Statement by Jagged 85

Statement by Dialectric

Statement by II

Statement by Pjoef

Statement by Johnuniq

Quick introduction WP:Jagged 85 cleanup has a summary of the situation, namely that a prolific editor has severely misused sources on hundreds or possibly thousands of articles. Numerous examples are available in the "Further information" links—as an example, one evidence page is here.

I do not think this is the kind of case normally taken by ArbCom, but a possible benefit from a case would be the introduction of other editors to assist with the cleanup. Each time more editors have been asked to comment on the issue, someone has found another egregious misuse of sources. A recent example is the first comment here (permalink), at 14:33, 18 March 2011 UTC.

ArbCom may wish to comment on the central issue: whether it is better to stub an article, or to leave it unchanged, and then verify each claim. Of course stubbing should only be a last resort, however this case has certain unique features that warrant stubbing in a number of articles. While it is bad to remove good information from an article, it is far worse for Misplaced Pages to present false information as facts—incorrect claims that are mirrored on many sites. Nearly all the claims are accompanied by a plausible and hard-to-access source, but as mentioned, numerous examples have been found which show that the sources do not verify the claims, and investigation has shown many claims to be exaggerations or blatantly incorrect.

Working through a large unstubbed article to verify/fix each statement may take a very long time. Worse is the fact that such a project is inherently almost impossible to achieve. For example, a favorite incorrect claim is that someone was the first to do something, and it would be relatively easy for an editor to check such redflag claims in an article, leaving verified information, and rewriting or removing incorrect or unverified claims. However, a second editor then has a big problem: how much of the article does the second editor need to check? If the first editor changes one sentence in a paragraph, does that mean the first editor is satisfied with the complete paragraph? Does the second editor need to verify each assertion? What about a third editor? It would be very difficult to coordinate edits, and the only practical approach in some cases would be to stub the article, then have each editor add information provided that editor has personally checked the source (in other words, the editor would take responsibility for the text they added). Johnuniq (talk) 10:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Ruud Koot

—Ruud 08:52, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by William M. Connolley

Statement by Yclept:Berr

Statement by CambridgeBayWeather

Statement by Wiqi55

Statement by Salix alba

It is clear that there are many problems with the Mathematics in medieval Islam which does require extensive scrutiny. I think the community effort would be better directed to carefully reviewing that article than engage in disputes over process. --Salix (talk): 08:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Misconceptions2

Statement by Lambiam

I think this is primarily a content dispute, and that Arbitration is not the way to handle it. For the rest, I don't think that my involvement rises to the level at which I should be considered an "involved party". My involvement has solely consisted of: giving my opinion in the stubbing RFC regarding the Mathematics in medieval Islam article (note: this is not the Jagged 85 RFC/U referred to, in which I have not participated), and three reactions to various comments by three different other users in the stubbing RFC discussion.  --Lambiam 09:14, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Al-Andalusi

Statement by Bless sins

Uninvolved parties

Statement by Headbomb

There's no case to be had. Aquib "lost" (or disagrees with the outcome of) RfC on the stubbification Mathematics in medieval Islam, and several other cases where Islamic contributions are greatly exagerated, or overstated (WP:UNDUE), sourced in greatly questionable sources (WP:RS), and which pushes fringe points of view (WP:NPOV). Most of this problematic stuff results from the edits of Jagged85.

Editors other than Aquib do a great job of laying a road map to cleanup the Jagged85 mess, with concrete proposals and plan of action (which is usually, stub the articles, then selectively restore the parts which can be verified in reliable sources). Aquib systematically objects to all these efforts, saying the original version should be restored, but never justifying why it should be restored other than "but stuff will be missing", and (as far as I'm aware), never edits the articles. Editors know stuff will be missing. But editors agree that it's better to have an incomplete and accurate article than an article which covers some things not found in the stub, but which is also littered with misleading, untrue, and otherwise undesirable material. Criticism bystanders will be criticizing bystanders, but they should stop disrupting the editorial process with such abuse of process.

ARBCOM shouldn't waste it's time re-examining old cases because of wikilawyering by people who want to re-open old cases for bureaucratic purposes only. If anything, it should consider topic banning Aquid for being an unproductive time sinker with his constant RfCs/Appeals/re-RfCs/RfCs on RfCs/... (Or maybe an admin will take the initiative and impose a discretionary sanction on Aquid.) Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 09:40, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/1/0/1)

  • Was supposed to be inactive, but A) Show us that this is a conDUCT dispute and not a ConTENT dispute, and B) Tell us if having this many parties is really absolutely necessary? Right now, I'm looking at the filing party's statement, and what I'm reading from it is "They're wrong, and this is why..." We're not going to handle it if it's that.. SirFozzie (talk) 09:46, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
  • leaning decline - complaints appear to revolve solely around content. Individual articles can be discussed at reliable sources or content noticeboard. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:14, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Henri Coanda defamation - second try

Initiated by Lsorin (talk) at 17:42, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
  • Andy Dingley
  • Binksternet
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
  • The previous request was not solved.
  • This case is refilled, as for two weeks nothing happened on the lower levels to solve the dispute on this case. Statement by User:Newyorkbrad: If the problem has not been resolved in two weeks then the case can be re-filed at that time. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:44, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
  • I was suggested by the admin User:Amatulic to take it to the ArbCom as low level solutions were tried without success. This can be confirmed by the involved parties, if not I can extend this section with links to those tries from the extensive archive of Coanda-1910 discussion.

Statement by LSorin

I need help in resolving the issues caused be the behaviour of the Andy Dingley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Binksternet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) regarding the usage of the mainstream sources regarding a subject which is controversial in the mind of two aviation historian former colleagues with very doubtful approach on the subject. And to make one more point clear: I am not accusing Andy of anything. I was just listed the fact that his stated that Henri Coanda is a liar. In Romania a public statement ( like Andy's in Misplaced Pages ) is punishable by law, if somebody would bother to take the case to the court.

The main problem is about the introduction of the Coanda-1910 article. Henri Coandă's airplane from 1910 was the first jet-propelled aircraft in the world. This statement is supported by the majority of the sources present today in specialized media.

Sources according to WP:IRS

  • Secondary Souces
    • Academic
- [http://books.google.com/books?ei=Ud_yTM_DF8yWOobw1KoK&ct=result&id=CYpTAAAAMAAJ&dq=coanda-1910+proceedings&q=coanda-1910#search_anchor History of rocketry and astronautics:

proceedings of the twenty-fourth Symposium of the International Academy of Astronautics, Dresden, Germany, 1990]

- [http://books.google.com/books?ei=Ud_yTM_DF8yWOobw1KoK&ct=result&id=9odTAAAAMAAJ&dq=coanda-1910+proceedings&q=coanda-1910#search_anchor History of rocketry and astronautics:

proceedings of the Seventeenth History Symposium of the International Academy of Astronautics, Budapest, Hungary, 1991]

-Romanian Academy
-Royal Aeronautical Society
    • Scholarship
      • Monographs
        • Books
Dan Antoniu, 2010 Henri Coanda and his technical work during 1906-1918.
Stine, G. Harry, 1983 The Hopeful Future.
V.Firoiu, 2002 Din nou acasa
Gibbs-Smith, C. 1970 Aviation: an historical survey from its origins to the end of World War II.

(According to the rule generally it has been at least preliminarily vetted by one or more other scholars Gibbs-Smith can be considered as it was endorsed by Antoniu but caution as it is considered to contain speculations on evidence of absence and using incorrect sources.)

    • News organizations
      • Magazines
Sandachi, George-Paul, 2010 , several "Cer Senin" magazines
Walter J. Boyne, 2006 -The Converging Paths of Whittle and von Ohain, A Concise History of Jet Propulsion
G. Harry Stine , 1989 - The Rises and Falls of Henri-Marie Coanda
Gérard Harmann , 2007 - Clément-Bayard, sans peur et sans reproche
Frank H. Winter , 1980 Ducted fan or the world's first jet plane? The Coanda claim re-examined

As per WP:IRS if the secondary sources are conflicting or they give biased positions ( as an example Antoniu vs Gibbs-Smith ) the primary sources can be used.

  • Primary Sources
    • 1) articles written by Coanda himself in 50s and 60s is several magazines
    • 2) articles,leaflets, books from very close to the event ( newspapers like "Le Temps", "Le Figaro", books Bases et methodes d'etudes aerotechniques - Leon Ventou-Duclaux )
    • 3) persons Victor Hoart "L'Histoire de l'aviation recontée à mon fils."
    • 4) several museums around the world in Romania, England, France, USA, Germany.
    • 5) patents
  • Tertiary sources

Several major encyclopedias: Jane's Encyclopedia of Aviation, World Encyclopedia, American Encyclopedia etc Special events: coins, stamps, exhibitions Institutions bearing his name with special emphasis on the first jet-propelled aircraft.

On the Content

Please understand this is not about the content and don't expect any high graded administrator from Misplaced Pages to make assumptions on the content in a pure break of WP:SYNTHESIS. My case is about the usage of mainstream and correct WP:WEIGHT of the subject especially in the introduction part of the article. And if I'm allowed I will make an original synthesis here to stop the discussions related to the content and to concentrate in solving the blockage from parties involved: If the Coanda 1910 would have not been tested as those two aviation historians have tried to demonstrate in the most absurd way, Henri Coanda would have been the first aircraft designer in world to not test his invention, eventually just selling as wood for fire or even worse set it himself on fire, to get recognition of Frank Whittle and Von Ohain inventions 50 years later.

Statement by Binksternet

Nothing has changed since the previous request. At that time, I said:

This is either a content issue which should not be dealt with here or it is an issue of the continuation of tendentious editing by one unsatisfied user who was unable to achieve consensus with his preferred version. I'm very proud of my work at Coandă-1910. It was among the most difficult tasks I have undertaken on Misplaced Pages, more difficult than my two FAs. I made a number of trips to the local university library and I learned a lot about the subject. The article is ... now a WP:Good Article. Lsorin helped make the article as good as it is, adding important content, but he did not make it easy on other editors. He and some anonymous editors from IP addresses based in Romania kept reverting the constructive work being done by a handful of veteran editors from the Aviation project, which kept tabs on the progress and helped achieve a neutral stance, one that deftly straddles deeply divided expert sources. As a content issue, I consider this matter closed. As a behavior issue, I am willing to expand on my thoughts if the case is accepted.

I am still willing to help with the case if it is accepted. Binksternet (talk) 18:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Andy Dingley

Nothing has changed since Lsorin's last attempt

This is an editor who has stretched POV-pushing to whole new heights. He's allowed to make comments like this without redress, and to turn his entire userpage into an attack page. How many times are other editors expected to have to defend themselves to ArbCom because this one editor is allowed, and even encouraged, to bring the same complaints back over and over again? Andy Dingley (talk) 18:47, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved Fut.Perf.

I still can't see why the Arbcom would want to waste their time on this. See my previous comments to NYB. There is nothing to resolve here. There is apparently a consensus on the article shared by everybody except one single agenda-pusher. The agenda-pusher was blocked for edit-warring and then warned off to stop editing disruptively. Since then, he has in fact stopped editing, so in the eyes of everybody but himself, the case has been solved. In his own perspective, of course, it hasn't, but that's because ever since that last admin warning he hasn't even tried. Not a single edit addressing the actual dispute (rather than mere procedural matters) since 13 January . So, the choice is all his: either he continues to heed the warning and stays off the article, then all is fine. Or he continues to heed the warning but returns to the article displaying a new, more constructive approach, then all is fine too. Or he returns to his old ways and resumes pushing his agenda, then he will simply be blocked, and everything will be fine again. What more does Arbcom expect to achieve here? Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:01, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (10/0/0/0)

Duke53

Initiated by alanyst at 07:48, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Alanyst

Duke53, an editor of 5+ years, has been a source of disruptive conflict in multiple subject areas for nearly all of his editing history. I ask the committee to examine his behavior.

Duke53 joined Misplaced Pages in late 2005. Spring 2006 saw his first conflict with an editor, and later conflicts erupted around such subjects as Duke University and its rivals, a natural history museum in New York state, and Mormonism. In each of these topic areas Duke53 holds a strong personal opinion and has treated editors who do not share his opinion, or who obstruct his efforts to make Misplaced Pages a platform for his views, as adversaries to be fought, ridiculed, or bullied. Read his talk page and userpage for a sampling of his behavior.

I am one of several long-time editors in the Mormonism topic area (being a Mormon myself) who has had conflict with Duke53 dating back several years. He has expressed special contempt for Mormons in general, and Mormon editors of Misplaced Pages in particular.

Dispute resolution has been attempted in various venues through the years: RfC twice, AN and similar noticeboards several times, and on sundry article and user talk pages. There has not been a recent RfC, and if this request is rejected it will probably be due to that fact. But I feel that arbitration is appropriate because of these factors:

  1. Experience from the first RfC, which expired without resolution partly because few outside opinions were given, shows it is hard to find neutral editors willing to attempt to resolve disputes involving religious topics or long-term chronic behavior.
  2. Duke53 rejects criticism of his behavior, so an RfC will not resolve the problem unless it gets enough input from neutral parties to form a consensus for community sanctions. It could end up being a waste of time like the first one.
  3. Duke53 has asserted that Mormon editors have conspired against editors critical of Mormonism in order to dominate the topic area. This is an effective counter to Mormon editors' complaints about him because sanctioning him would be feared as playing into the hands of the conspiracy. Such claims deserve to be examined by a neutral body so that either the clique be uncovered and dispersed, or else the accusation be refuted as an unmerited slur. An RfC on Duke53 is unlikely to accomplish this.

If this request is accepted, I will provide evidence for problematic behaviors including:

  • POV pushing, disruption to make a point, and battleground behavior
  • Willingness to violate BLP
  • Initiation and exacerbation of conflict
  • Vindictiveness
  • Biting newcomers
  • Refusal to compromise or accept correction
  • WP:COMPETENCE issues

alanyst 08:00, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

@Casliber: Why now? That's a fair question. This may in fact be long overdue, and I have contemplated whether to bring this to arbitration for a long time now. I held back because (a) arbitration can be a time sink, (b) I kept hoping a neutral party would intervene so it wouldn't just appear as a vendetta by Mormons against an anti-Mormon, and (c) I tried to give him every chance to change his ways. The final straw for me was to see him taunting an editor who has made every effort to respect the opposing POV and deal with him in good faith, to the point that the editor (BFizz) started to lose his cool. (See Talk:Joseph Smith, Jr.#Emma Hale Smith caption and Talk:Joseph Smith, Jr.#Joseph Smith and adultery.) I felt it was time for the relentless bullying to stop, lest we lose an editor who has tried to reach across the divide. alanyst 14:16, 16 March 2011 (UTC) Also, regarding the evidence: the Wikiquette alert is from December 2010, though confusingly it starts with quoted material (including timestamps) from 2007, making it appear at first glance as a stale dispute. alanyst 18:44, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Question: Jehochman's indefinite block of Duke53 may have mooted this request. Is there any desire by the committee members or interested onlookers for this matter to be continued either here in arbitration or in an RfC/U? I am a little unsettled that neither the community nor the committee has come to a consensus regarding Duke53's behavior, his counter-assertions regarding Mormon editors, or the conditions by which he might be allowed to edit Misplaced Pages in the future. Nothing against Jehochman or his duly exercised admin discretion, but I worry that short-circuiting the process might have the appearance of preventing a fair hearing. On the other hand, I don't wish to press for unnecessary process that will just waste people's time if there is general approval of Jehochman's action. alanyst 15:54, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Duke53

I really don't have a whole lot of time to waste on this, but anybody who gets involved in this might take note of Alanyst's posting history. It is very evident that the one thing that is guaranteed to draw him to post at WP anymore is my participation in articles. It's almost as if he has cast himself as a modern day defender of the lds church here at Misplaced Pages. No matter how long his absences here are, if I post at an lds article he's sure to follow.

Next, you will also notice a bunch of familiar faces showing up to bolster his accusations: Bfizz, Routerone, Canadiandy (if he doesn't post under one of his alter egos, which are numerous) and Storm Rider. There is also a newer bunch from byu, who were quick to pick up the habit of meatpuppetry and swarming in their 'debut' at WP. They don't much like it when I mention 'swarming' or 'tag-teaming', but as my Grandmother used to say: "The proof is in the pudding" Duke53 | 08:40, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by B Fizz

In all my online interactions I have never been singled out, taunted, criticized, and ridiculed by anyone as much as I have been by Duke53. Misplaced Pages behavioral guidelines suggest that we focus on the edit and not on the editor. Duke53 often focuses his fire on editors.

His common method of irritating me is by twisting my words: exaggerating them or applying them to something I obviously did not intend. A few examples:

Applying my reasoning in an absurd fashion

Additionally, rudely parodying my signature

Rudely parodying my old signature

There are more instances of similar behavior towards me that you can find in his edit history. I understand that sometimes it is appropriate to extend another editor's reasoning to a different domain in order to help them understand why you disagree with them, but if you inspect Duke53's edits, they appear (to me) to be confrontational assertions rather than an attempt to reach understanding.

I am not the only one Duke apparently despises; he appears to consider all 'tbms' as enemies that 'gang up' against him. He has exhibited similar behavior towards editors such as Canadiandy1, Routerone, and newcomers.

I find Duke53's editing at Misplaced Pages to frequently be provocative and counterproductive. I feel that achieving NPOV takes creativity and willingness to compromise; Duke53 rarely exhibits willingness to compromise, and rarely employs his creativity for anything but pushing his particular POV. ...comments? ~BFizz 16:12, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Information: User:Jehochman has blocked Duke53 indefinitely, but invited him to post an unblock request explaining the productive editing he wishes to participate in. While I generally feel this a wise course of action, it is an odd one to perform in the middle of an arbitration request. I'll leave it to the wisdom of the committee to decide what to do from here. ...comments? ~BFizz 16:16, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Questions for Jclemens and Risker - What kind of community process would you recommend? According to "the nature of RfC/U", RfC/U cannot "impose/enforce involuntary sanctions, blocks, bans, or binding disciplinary measures." If Duke53 reacts to an RfC/U the same way he has reacted to the various methods of dispute resolution used in the past—ignoring or dismissing the community's concerns—then it will be a fruitless endeavor. Is there a better option? Would we open another arbitration request if such a measure fails to produce results, or would this one be kept open during such a community process? ...comments? ~BFizz 23:57, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Storm Rider

I am not a perfect editor and this particular editor is an easy one for me to go off on, which I have done often. He is wholly and completely dedicated to being unhelpful and disruptive. His entire edit history is one long example of exactly what he as been accused. I know it takes time, but it would be useful to go through all of his 3,772 edits in order to grasp the magnitude of his disruptiveness.

It is true that he is not a very active editor and has never been very active. An editor who begins in 2005 and only has 3,772 edits is evidence that he is not dedicated to this process. However, lack of edits is not a sufficient reason to delay action. His behavior has never changed; he is the same editor he started out as without any improvement. He is spiteful, vindictive, opinionated, and narrow-minded. Worse, he demands that his opinion is the only correct reference, position, context, and tone to use in articles within his interest.

I have long since believed that after a short probationary period to determine the ability of an editor, being a Misplaced Pages editor is a privilege and not a right. Duke should have long since lost this privilege. -Rider 07:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Jehochman

Just to note that I have reviewed this matter and will be blocking Duke53 shortly. Jehochman 12:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Filing a request for arbitration, or being named as an involved party, does not exempt any editor from being subject to the standard administrative remedies. Sometimes a problem festers because no administrator has taken the time to investigate the facts. When a request for arbitration is filed, this may draw the attention of experienced administrators, and the matter may be resolved directly without the high cost of arbitration. Jehochman 19:22, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Wehwalt

Just from personal experience , I've found Duke53 a pain to deal with on balance (see Duke lacrosse case). I should add that he is sometimes helpful in keeping off the zealots who want to introduce POV to the article, but his approaches are generally counterproductive. Uncertain if arbs should be dealing with this one, I'd hold off and see what goes with Jehochman's block. Arb isn't necessarily the last resort, but it's awfully close, and if admins feel they can deal with him, I'd give them their shot.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:58, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (2/4/3/0)

  • Accept John Vandenberg 10:02, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Question for alanyst - why now? Much of this evidence is old, although the userpage for deletion has just passed (February '11), much of ther material is 2006-07 (and early-mid 2010). accept - needs a review by us I think to sort this out hold pending Duke53's request to unblock at least. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:58, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Recuse - I took part in the first MfD and also the RfC. PhilKnight (talk) 22:36, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Accept. Sounds like this needs sorting out. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:45, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Decline Given the age of the RfC/U, I would expect an updated RfC/U before accepting this. The community has a much better recent track record in dealing with single, disruptive editors than it did a few years ago. Jclemens (talk) 22:49, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
    • Without specifically commenting on the recent block, I think it best to clarify that by "the community", I was referring to community-enacted sanctions arrived at through open, appropriate, problem-focused discussion at AN/ANI, rather than blocks issued by individual administrators. Jclemens (talk) 22:33, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Decline, this matter should probably be reviewed by the broader community first, as the community has managed similar situations effectively. Would be willing to reconsider if there is evidence of an ineffective or indecisive community process. Risker (talk) 13:25, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Decline, let the community try and sort it out first. - Mailer Diablo 12:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment: I see Duke53 hasn't yet posted an unblock request. I suggest we wait and see if he does so (and perhaps also a clerk posts on his talk page asking whether he has any comments to make about this request).  Roger 02:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Decline at this time per other decline comments, especially Roger's. On the broader issue presented by Jehochman's block, Jehochman is right that sometimes a request for arbitration will call attention to the fact that a clearly warranted block is long overdue, and in that case an administrator may be justified in blocking. However, caution should be observed in blocking a party to a pending request for arbitration, lest we leave editors fearful of filing or being named in requests; hence, this step should generally be taken only in clear-cut cases. (I'm not opining right now on whether this was a clear-cut case or not.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
  1. Hugh N. Kennedy, Hugh (1985), "From Polis To Madina: Urban Change In Late Antique And Early Islamic Syria", Past & Present, 106 (1), Oxford University Press: 3–27 , doi:10.1093/past/106.1.3