Talk:Kansas State University

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Kansas High‑importance

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Higher education

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Cheer

Now say it with me...

"K - S - U . . . WILDCATS!!"

And we shall follow that up with Another K-State FIRST DOWN!

Kirk: I'm afraid cheering for your favourite team doesn't really belong in an encyclopedia article. ;-)

What is wrong w/ adding a little color (or colour, as you might say) to these entries?

And if this encyclopedia entry (or any/all entries for that matter) are to be accurate, why not include things of this nature (btw, the lines you reference are indeed a part of the University, to some degree).

Oh, Lord. I see a whole raft of subpages for fight songs coming. --MichaelTinkler, alumnus of perennial football unfavorite Rice University

Nothing wrong with a little colour (or color, as you might say). However, you might preface the cheer with somthing like this:

While taking in a game, one is likely to hear the university cheer... (insert cheer here)

That way, you're not asking the readers to cheer along with you. -- Stephen Gilbert

I think adding fight songs would be no different than adding entries for other songs (see Take me out to the ball game). -- RjLesch, whose school fight song was usually sung as "Don't know the words / Don't know the words / ..."

Main Campus Buildings

Just a suggestion, instead of making an article per building make one article and link to the headings. It's still a work in progress, but see Iowa State University and Buildings of Iowa State University for an example. Cburnett 01:02, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Good suggestion. I wasn't involved in writing that part of the page, but I'm thinking of spinning off some info onto other pages that cover bigger topics in that style. Kgwo1972 00:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I like the idea, but have reservations. I might be more for that idea of Misplaced Pages weren't so slow so frequently. As such, the large pages like that never finish loading. --Hanenkamp 17:25, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Distinguished alumni

Kirstie Alley never graduated. I think she should be removed from the alumni section, but I would like some feedback. Kgwo1972 17:09, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and put the designation attended next to her name and others are not actually alumni. Kgwo1972 00:45, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Old map

I remember inside a closet door in jounalism department was a really old perspective map (is that the right term?). I wonder if it's still there. I was very tempted to steal it but I was too honest. If it's still there it would be cool to get a photograph of it. --Gbleem 04:49, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Research sentence removed

Hi all - I removed the following sentence:

Faculty and graduate research is conducted at the university in agronomy, biosciences, electrical engineering, food science and the social sciences.

The context implies these are the only areas where research is done, which is false. Also, I don't really see the purpose for such a list. It should be presumed that at any large research university, research is conducted in all academic fields. With a few very minor exceptions, I believe this is true of K-State. --best, kevin 00:18, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Seems rational to me. I was just mucking around with that part of the page but that sentence was not my work. Kgwo1972 00:45, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

New Coach!

If someone could make a Ron Prince page, that would be great, seeing as the cats have a new coach.

Dan Glickman

Anybody have a citation that proves Dan Glickman attended KSU? I couldn't find one. --best, kevin 01:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Alcoholic coaches

I have now removed the statement that KSU basketball coach is an alcoholic. There are two problems with this addition. First, its not relevant to an article on KSU, perhaps the article on the coach, but not here. Second, it was unsourced. It being "well known" is not sufficient. A verifiable source is needed. Without such wikipedia is exposing itself to libel suits. --best, kevin 02:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Bleeding Purple

We use that a lot to say we are die-hard fans. Should it be added under trivia or something?Cameron Nedland 20:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll add it. WaltBren (talk) 19:37, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

KSU name

If someone knows, please correct. Otherwise, I'll look it up and do it. I thought that the name was, at one time, Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Science until about 20 years ago. Polounit 02:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)Done/Thanks, Spacini. Polounit 03:01, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Demographics

Is there any official information on this (like saying that 90% of students are from Johnson County, etc.)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cameron Nedland (talk • contribs) 16:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

National champions

I have reverted this edit. This webpage appears to contradict it. --best, kevin 01:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

As does this, if you count individual sports. Kslogic | Talk 23:50, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Campus in Olathe

Has anyone heard any details on the new campus they're making?Cameron Nedland (talk) 19:56, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Its not new. its an ag farm southeast of Lawrence that has been there for years. My sister worked there, too. Full of snakes, she said. WaltBren (talk) 19:37, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Endowment

The endowment figure has been going back and forth, so I though some explanation would be helpful. The figure of $453 million from the Foundation's annual report is for ALL assets, including non-endowment assets like the golf course and other real estate (see page 15). The annual report does show a figure of $289.8 million for pure endowments (see page 14 graphs), but that does not include quasi and term endowments. The best source of the actual endowment for Kansas State University is the NACUBO Endowment Study. NACUBO is the National Association of College and University Business Officers. Each September universities submit the fair market value of their endowment to NACUBO (along with lots of other data), which is published several months later. This is the source of the $346.4 million figure that has been reverted. In this case, both the annual report and the NACUBO study are dated 6/30/07, so one is not more current than the other. I hope this explanation helps. Alanraywiki (talk) 15:38, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with using the NACUBO figures. It is more accurate and third-party sources should be used whenever possible. →Wordbuilder (talk) 16:10, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I also agree with using the NACUBO figures for the reasons given above. It also provides an accurate means of comparison between institutions. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 21:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

It now appears that a revert war has started. I support the NACUBO figures, but perhaps we should turn this over to an admin.Spacini (talk) 13:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Since the editor who insists on the other version is, so far, unwilling to join the conversation and since that editor's version has not received support here, I think if the current version is again changed, then admin intervention may be required. →Wordbuilder (talk) 13:46, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Official Name

The reverted section stated that the official name of Kansas State University was "Kansas State College of Agriculture and Applied Science" and was changed to this in 1959. According to this page from K-State Libraries, the college was named KSCAAS on 09 March 1931, and was changed to Kansas State University on 27 March 1959. Flibbert (talk) 15:35, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

This was a mistaken revert. The page referenced from the K-State University Archives isn't specific with the full name of the university. What it is referencing is that "College" was changed to "University". The official name of the university is Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Science. Spacini (talk) 04:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

However, this articlestates that the name was changed from Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Science to Kansas State University in 1959.--Flibbert (talk) 16:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The article cited by Flibbert is incorrect. University Archives at K-State maintains a complete file about the name change from Kansas State College of Agriculture and Applied Science to Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Science. The University Archivist supplied me with the official memo from President James A. McCain (now cited in this article) noting the name change. --Spacini (talk) 17:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The memo cited by Spacini is outdated. I've found more than a few cites that say that recently K-State has become Kansas State University. Here's one, another, and another. Please check out the last one especially. The Higher Learning Comission specifically states: Name change notes: Kansas State Agricultural College to Kansas State College of Agriculture and Applied Science to Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Science (1959) to Kansas State University (1963) I have reverted your edit and also supplied a full cite. Thanks for being civil about this. Flibbert (talk) 18:03, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

President McCain's memo is not outdated. And to suggest that an official document by the University's president and archived in the University Archives is outdated is silly. The Legislature of Kansas changed the name of the university by House Bill 26, passed by the House on February 19, 1959, by the Senate, March 19, 1959, and signed into law by Governor George Docking on March 20, 1959. No act of the Kansas Legislature since March 20, 1959 has changed the name of Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Science. This debate is not about what one web site says vs. what another says. This is about an act of the Kansas Legislature which has not been amended or repealed since 1959. Numerous documents in the University Archives at K-State (where I work) confirm the official name of the university. As recently as 2007, a memo from the University's Registrar's Office notes the official seal of the University, which includes the full name of the university as cited within this article. --Spacini (talk) 18:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what else to do. I've given you the cites, I've cited numerous articles that support my side. You've done a lot of personal research, which, I think , is in violation of WP:NOR. The fact that you claim to work for University Archives and/or claim to have a copy of said memo in hand is irrelevant. I could claim to be the President of the University...it really wouldn't matter. What kind of ideas do you have to solve our dilemma? Flibbert (talk) 18:48, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Personal research? Finding citations from Kansas Statutes does not constitute personal research nor is it in violation for WP:NOR. I'm not providing opinion or synthesis of data. I'm simply providing a verifiable source for the official name of the university. The sources you cite are not official university publications, memos, or statutes for the State of Kansas. The Kansas Legislature is the only body that can change the name of the university, and it has not done so since 1959. Feel free to seek mediation from an editor if you wish.--Spacini (talk) 19:03, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Can you supply a link to any of these sources? Because all I see are you saying that you have sources, rather than actual cites to said sources. Flibbert (talk) 19:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

All Misplaced Pages sources do not have to be online to be verifiable; if that were the case, thousands upon thousands of facts in this resource would be negated. Many online sources have also proved to be in error. I have provided accurate citations for the sources I used down to the page numbers. Anyone can turn to the State of Kansas, Session Laws, 1959 volume, page 686 and find House Bill No. 26, which officially changed the name of the university. --Spacini (talk) 23:21, 3 February 2010 (U

True, some online sources can be in error. However, I believe that since I have found multiple sources, the error is not on my side. I've submitted this case for mediation as we are unable to come to a resolution. As far as you're concerned, this page is your way or the highway. A third party opinion will be the defining factor in this revert.Flibbert (talk) 03:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Here is yet another source, from the Kansas State Library Archives no less, which once again backs my claim. How many will it take to convince you that the name has changed? Flibbert (talk) 03:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The source that you cite, from K-State's University Archives, has Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Science. --Spacini (talk) 18:04, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess that proves that you do, in fact, work for the university. Good job on covering your tracks. We both know what that web pages said three days ago. Too bad you don't work for Google or the Wayback machine. A simple trip to that page will prove what that page said until you had it changed. Flibbert (talk) 16:04, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I'll just chime in to say I'd support the name given by the State Legislature as being the "official name" -- whatever that name may be. I don't have any information to contribute, but I wish you luck in working this out amiably. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 19:13, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I would as well, except that every single source of information I have found in research states that the name was changed to "Kansas State University" somewhere around 1959-1963. Nothing I've found states that it is the way that the other user keeps typing in and reverting to. Rather than perform child-like antics, I'm taking the high road on this one; I've stopped reverting and filed a mediation request. Outcome lies within a third party. Flibbert (talk) 19:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

For those that care, here is a link and another link to the Google cached version and of the Internet Archive Wayback machine of the K-State Library Archives. This plainly states what the page said before User:Spacini, who works for the University Library, had it changed to reflect his opinion. I have screenshots as well that I can easily post on flickr or photobucket if needed. Thanks. Flibbert (talk) 22:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Let's be realistic and reasonable about all this. Taking the "high road" is not saying that someone else is performing "child-like antics". It's blatantly an ad hominem attack. At no point have I stated opinion or pointed to sources that support opinion. The fact is that the university's official name is Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Science, and the Kansas Legislature is the body that changed the name. There is nothing, positively nothing, official from the state of Kansas that the university's official name was changed in 1963 or at any other time after 1959 that removed "of Agriculture and Applied Science". K-State is a land-grant university, a historic agriculture college, one that continues to focus on agriculture and applied sciences. Why is that so difficult to fathom? --Spacini (talk) 03:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I found this at the mediation cabal page. I am here to help resolve your dispute. Although there is a stoppage of posts here, for my own use, can you User: Flibbert, you User:Spacini, and you User:Kgwo1972 please post statements, in a WP:CIVIL way, on this page for me to review. Thanks! Hamtechperson 01:14, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Per outcome of Misplaced Pages:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2010-02-01/Kansas_State_University mediation has determined that the official name of K-State is "Kansas State University" and not "Kansas State University of Agriculture and Applied Sciences." Please see the mediation page for more details or contact the mediator User:Hamtechperson for more information. Thanks. Flibbert (talk) 16:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Positively amazing. Ignoring the fact that the Kansas Legislature is the only body with the authority to change the name of the university (which it did in 1959), and ignoring the fact that the Kansas Legislature has not changed the name of the university since that time, and accepting one editor's claim that "research states that the name was changed to 'Kansas State University' somewhere around 1959-1963" but not citing one source for this purported change circa 1959-1963, the mediator has concluded that the acts and statutes of the State of Kansas are incorrect. Absolutely remarkable. Spacini (talk) 18:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Amazing on the one hand, Spacini, but on the other, par for the course. This decision by WP's administrators demonstrates why researchers who seek accuracy through demonstrable & reliable sourcing will never consider WP anything more than a tip sheet. That is, it's a handy way to get information, but one shouldn't consider it any more definitive than a buddy who tells you he has a great tip on a hot stock or a fast horse. We've all seen accepted facts challenged by "experts," while personal emotions are permitted to stand. So don't take it personally -- in fact, use WP as a way to test students for laziness by asking them to right about a topic that's wrong here; those who don't bother to check facts tend to repeat this site as if it were gospel. Try reading The Cult of the Amateur, by Andrew Keen. You'll get a kick out of it. The most relevant part is his retelling of the Essjay controversy. The WP version plays down the giggles professional researchers expressed after Jimmy Wales initially defended academic fraud; it was first published in The New Yorker. Nbaz34 (talk) 17:41, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh my. I can't quite believe this, though frankly I don't care enough to register or engage in any ongoing disputes. I came up against the question of the university's official name while undertaking an editing project for a private company. I went so far as to contact the University's PR department directly, given the wealth of confusion and misinformation on the topic. In the end, it took them two weeks to get back to me, because they had no idea either! I know that counts as OR for purposes of non-inclusion, so let me point interested editors to what should be the last and final word--the Kansas Legislature. "Statute 76-756: Capital improvements for state educational institutions by endowment associations; definitions. As used in this act: (a) "State educational institution" means Fort Hays state university, Kansas state university of agriculture and applied science, Kansas state university veterinary medical center, Emporia state university, Pittsburg state university, university of Kansas, university of Kansas medical center, Wichita state university and Kansas state university, college of technology at Salina." If Flibbert is still around and editing I hope he lets this one go--he's so manifestly incorrect that it's amazing. And the mod who arbitrated this needs a time-out. See also K.S.A. 76-116d, K.S.A. 76-156a, Kansas HB 2016 (2001), etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.149.1.36 (talk) 14:07, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Just because a bill mentions one name doesn't mean that it is the current name. — BQZip01 — 08:28, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Fuck you. I'm done being nice. You fucking parasite, and enemy to fact. Those aren't bills I referenced. Those are fucking statutes! Are you able to comprehend the difference? The institutions of the state are defined by the apparatus of the state. Self-fucking-evident, isn't it? You fucking simpleton.

I've never been moved to this sort of rage before. I'm enraged because the simple facts are available for anyone with the most basic google prowess, or the ability to think. This whole fucking endeavor (by this, I mean Misplaced Pages) was predicated upon the idea that knowledge shouldn't be privileged. And yet, those who have embraced the project, have registered their names/IPs, and may know sweet fuck all about the topics they're editing are privileged above those who have spent hours, days, years, or lifetimes studying a thing.

Revisionist history is given a pass, or at best demands equal time with serious scholarship. And that best doesn't happen often, if ever,

So who the fuck are you? I'm not Spacini, as I've been accused of being. Nor am I a sock or meat puppet of anyone else. I'm an IP that refuses to register, that is all.

Let's recap. Spacini, while probably partisan to the issue, provided documentation that clearly indicated the university's official name. Flibbert, took issue with Spacini's documentation, going so far as to accuse the user of forgery. All the time, the evidence is easily and publicly accessible via Kansas statute. I jump in (with an IP verifiably from Lawrence, and therefore automatically a K-State hater) and provide the statutes that define institutions in the state and the reference to those statutes.

You understand that the state of Kansas defines, delimits, and otherwise describes the state's university, right? Do you understand that the state legislature giving voice to its understanding of an institution under its complete control defines it?

How's this for knowledge, fuckwits? When the state legislature calls the university in Manhattan, Kansas the 'Kansas State University for Agriculture and Applied Science', the state legislature changes the name of the school. No matter what it was, or what it would be. The school is a state institution. The state names it. I have already provided to you the name given by our state.

Ok everyone. Let's settle down. This slow-rolling edit war is getting a bit ridiculous. My unsolicited thoughts (I'll address my comments to each user)

Flibbert: You have indeed made a strong case that the name is indeed Kansas State University. You have cited multiple reliable sources showing this name change and this is a very good thing. However, when researching and conflicting evidence arises, you have to consider that some sources might be wrong. They may be basing their research upon faulty information or common misconceptions. The sources you provide are not official documents, but are reliable secondary sources. That said, they do not appear to be based upon the legal names of state institutions as determined by the state governments. Yes, Spacini may indeed work for the University and he may or may not have a position he believes, but that doesn't make him wrong. You need to consider that Spacini may have simply fixed an error on the Kansas State website; his actions are completely within the bounds of his job and could easily have no sinister motive. Just dial it back and make your case professionally.
Spacini: Please edit under your official name and do NOT use IPs to bolster your opinions. Accounts used to show more support for a position than actually exists is prohibited. Do you have a link to this house bill? Do you have any links from which we can browse through the archives to find the actual name of the school? If it isn't anything more than House Bill XYZ states "ABC", then we really don't have access to it and it is quite difficult to validate your claims. Most state governments have such websites and it would really be useful to see that information. Until then, we have nothing but your word that these are what is stated. Since other reliable sources that we CAN view discredit this opinion, I'm going to side with the mediator (for now) and I am reverting the name back. — BQZip01 — 08:29, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Of course I have considered that. However, I found multiple pieces of evidence, took my case to mediation, and went with the findings there. Other than the steps that I have taken, I don't see anything else possible for a solution. Until a mediator rules the other way, I think that the name should remain the way the mediation case was ruled. Flibbert (talk) 16:42, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Big 12 WikiProject

I'm trying to gauge the interested in created a Big 12 WikiProject and wondering who would like to be involved. There are already pages for WikiProject Big Ten and WikiProject ACC. A Big 12 project would cover the schools themselves and anything to do with conference sports including: events, rivalries, teams, seasons, championships and lore. There is already quite a bit of activity here on Misplaced Pages regarding the Big 12, and I think a project could help coordinate and unify our efforts. Please see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Big 12 if you are interested, and add your name to the list. Grey Wanderer (talk) 00:18, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Secret Societies

Can we get some more information about KSU's secret societies on here please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.7.18.90 (talk) 19:37, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Additions are generally welcomed if they are relevant to the page and have sources cited. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 15:08, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

We had a secret society when I was there--there were three or four of us that met in Kris Kahle's basement apartment to drink beer and play Warcraft. We never told anyone so it was a secret. But if you're talking about something like Skull and Bones then I would contend that if there are "secret societies" at Kansas State, they're really good at keeping it a secret because no one knows about them.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:53, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I have seen things around campus, logos and symbols and what not. Nothing too obvious but it appears that they make their presence known. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.7.18.90 (talk) 20:50, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Statute

FWIW, an online database of annotated Kansas statutes, which claims currency through 2009, has an article (in the statutory sense) with the heading 'Kansas State University', but if you find 'agriculture and and applied science', you find that every individual statute specifies the longer name, as it does in every other citation (e.g., 2-1429) not directly under this direct article heading (the heading, by the way, from the site, and therefore not necessarily statutorily correct: . Drawn by the swearing and (broad) personal attack in the edit summary. Recommend, per common name - Kansas State University, formally known as...often abbreviated as/to...; and, BTW, those 'other' abbreviations should not be used within the article, except where they're in a direct quote. Got there (quickly) by searching 'agriculture applied science' on the KSU website in external links, finding the seed certification available there, and then a search for "k.s.a. 2-1429", found that statute on the site, then searched 'Kansas State University'. The complete site is rather large, and I crashed several times before getting to Chapter & article level, which has taken me since the last edit, but this should move a discussion towards a resolution. Hope it helps. Dru of Id (talk) 07:40, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

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