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User talk:Tarheel95/June 2009

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This is an archive of past discussions with User:Tarheel95. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

I need your mentorship

Hi,

I need help from an experienced Wikipedian, and I saw your name over at WP:ADOPT.

I need your advice concerning WP:WPOOK, which I've been coordinating. The set of pages the project concerns is listed atPortal:Contents/Outline of knowledge and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge#Projected outline, and has grown to about 500 articles in the encyclopedia.

The goals of the WikiProject are:

  1. Increase awareness of readers of the existence of the outlines on Misplaced Pages
  2. Complete the existing outlines
  3. Create an outline for every subject that is extensive enough to benefit from having an outline (core subjects and major or extensive fields). There are thousands of these.
  4. Recruit as many editors to work on these as possible (we need thousands of editors working on these)
  5. Surpass portals in number by the end of the summer, and leave them in the dust by the end of the year
  6. Get the major outline subject areas displayed on the Main Page (in place of or in addition to the portal links at the top of the page)
  7. Increase the OOK to higher quality than Britannica's Outline of Knowledge (published in itsPropaedia volume).

I was hoping you could comment on how to achieve the goals above.

Also I'm interested in every possible way of reaching readers and editors of Misplaced Pages. How can I get the most eyes and typing fingers on Misplaced Pages's outlines? Contacting editors directly without a reason relevant to them is spam, which I'd like to avoid. There are 75,000 regular editors on Misplaced Pages, and I want to contact all of them. So how do I do it? Directly or indirectly, I don't care which, piecemeal or all-at-once, all methods are fine with me. But I've got to find ways. I need your help.

I would also like to know how to find or attract editors to create new outlines. And I need advice on finding editors to help write the new outline article mentioned above (it needs to be fleshed out, completely referenced, and brought to featured article status).

Please recommend anyone you know who might be interested in sinking their teeth into a project like this. Or ways to reach groups of editors. Or ways to reach all editors. I welcome any and all recommendations and advice you might have.

And any thoughts on attaining the WikiProject goals above.

I look forward to your reply on my talk page.

The Transhumanist   03:40, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikiproject

Hi, I saw your post on my talk page about WP:WPOOK. I am very interested in this project, as I think the outlines will increase traffic. I do have a few ideas on how to acheive the goals which you've requested. I like how the exsisting outlines are structured, but think we could expand with a few words about each sub-topic, to give readers info about what they're looking at. The best way of advertising the OOK is of course, the main page, which I thought could be organized like portals are. Each general topic could link to the actual outline of the subject. I will help out in any way I can. I look forward to expanding the current outlines and, in time, leaving portals forever. Thank you! T-95 (talk) 17:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Welcome to the team!
Speaking of traffic, are you familiar with the last two links on the navbar below?
Tools
AWB
Counter
Createds
Feeds
OTS
Pagestats
Scholar
T-filler
Top
Traffic
 
I've been using these to compare the traffic of outlines with the traffic of the corresponding articles and portals. Most of the outlines are still orphans, and their traffic reflects this. It should pick up one we link them into the encyclopedia. I'm currently looking into the feasibility of placing a hatnote a the top of articles that leads to each subject's corresponding outline. It makes sense to have the TOC (which each outline is for its subject) at the top of the subject's main article rather than at the bottom in the see also section (which seems like the perfect place for a link to the subject's index page.
Take a look at the traffic counts for the portals listed on the Main Page. They are really high. I think it is because of the portal navbar that is at the top of almost all of the portals.
By the way, short section leads are fine with me. Though we'll need to do something to prevent them from growing too large.
As for the Main Page, I was thinking we should try to replace the portal links with outline links, once the outlines become more numerous than portals. But that probably won't fly. Your idea is more feasible I think, as the community is more likely to accept it. Thank you!
Would you like to make the proposal and post it to the Main Page's talk page? But before you post the proposal, I'd love to see it. You should also bounce your Main Page idea off of Quiddity and RichardF too, because they are also very familiar with Misplaced Pages's contents systems and the Main Page's role in them.
I look forward to your reply.
The Transhumanist   04:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

There are some replies for you on my talk page (eom)

(eom = end of message)

The Transhumanist   18:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


And another (eom)

Shannon O'Keefe

Just to let you know I removed the speedy tag as she seems to be a world bowling champion. If you still think that she isn't sufficiently notable, feel free to take this to an AfD. Passportguy (talk) 15:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Welcome

Welcome to the team!

Here's your first WikiProject update...

(Feel free to bounce any ideas or feedback off me.)

Outline update - Good news and bad news - 06/08/2009

The big push continues.

And it seems to be working!

The good news is that there's growing support for outlines, and there are more editors than ever editing them!

The bad news is that the complainers are disproportionately represented on the project's various talk pages. While many editors work diligently on the front end, a handful of complainers are trying to tear down the project behind the scenes. Fortunately, barely enough supporters have been watching those pages that no consensus for moving or merging the outlines has succeeded. So far...

Big problem: ignorance of what outlines are for and their benefits

Most of the opposition seems to be unaware of the complete range of what outlines are used for. They just don't get it.

This is why it is important to complete the outline article draft. An article with a comprehensive treatment of outlines would be the perfect place to refer anybody unfamiliar with outlines to.

Opposers also don't seem to understand how outlines differ from some other page type that they prefer. Some think articles are good enough as an overview, others think portals are more in-depth, still others think categories or navigation boxes are the most efficient and useful way to organize and present topical information. Some have simply never seen an "Outline of" page before and think they are a new type of page (they've been around under other names since 2001).

If you run across anyone who doesn't understand the role of outlines on Misplaced Pages, Misplaced Pages:Why do we have outlines in addition to...? might help reduce their misconceptions or uncertainties about outlines.

On the bright side, you've got to see this...

To add the outlines and related support pages to your watchlist (takes less than 30 seconds), cut and paste them fromMisplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist. For a way to improve the display of your watchlist - by namespace (very useful) - see Watchlist sorter, or use the "super fast upgrade" at WP:OTS.

Or go to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist using Related changes (currently without the talk pages) and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu on the sidebar on the left side of your screen.

The big push

The big push started with about a thousand banners and notices being placed on article talk pages all over Misplaced Pages.

But it didn't stop there...

Welcome our new members...

The following Wikipedians have joined the OOK team.

Be sure to stop by their talk pages and introduce yourselves.

Enter the mentors!

I asked a bunch of mentors at WP:ADOPT for advice. Several of them answered on my talk page. Most of those who replied were happy to help, and posted some very good ideas. A couple even joined the project.

Here are their ideas, and what is being done about them. A few of the tasks still need volunteers:

Linking to outlines has begun

To the tops of about 30 subject articles, I placed a test batch of hatnotes leading to the corresponding outlines. The hatnotes look like this:

For a topical guide to this subject, see Outline of X.(Hidden: <!- PLEASE LEAVE THIS LINE IN PLACE because it leads to the page that serves as the table of contents for Misplaced Pages's overall coverage of this subject. Thank you.-->

The rationale for the hatnotes is that each outline is a topical guide for its subject, and since tables of contents go at the front of a book, a link to each outline should be placed at the front of its subject.

Unfortunately, not all editors agree. Some of the hatnotes have already disappeared.  :(

Some past discussions pertaining to the existence or location of outlines

Note that the "Lists of topics" are of two types, including outlines and indexes, so discussions to remove, move, or merge those are usually relevant to the OOK. Also, outlines are a type of list, so discussions that affect lists in general also pertain to outlines. We've got to be on our toes!

I've excluded links to live discussions, out of respect for WP:CANVASS.

Table of contents to OOK-related stuff

Here's a directory of outline support pages:

Keep up the great work!

The Transhumanist   03:29, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK advert banner under development, here's the beta...

Penubag needs feedback.

I've posted a few changes for him to make to it.

Please post additional comments and suggestions for him at User talk:Penubag#Chocolate banner.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist   02:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline collaboration!

As you know, Penubag is working on a banner to advertise the Outline WikiProject. And he's almost done.

The banner prominently presents the "Outline of chocolate", which of course will become the most widely advertised outline as soon as the banner goes live. The first thing many editors will do after seeing the banner is look for that outline.

The problem is, we don't have one.

So that's our first outline collaboration!

I started a draft this morning.

It needs to be finished and moved to the article namespace before we can start using Penubag's banner ad!

Come join in on the fun. It's chocolate!

The Transhumanist   21:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

review

It may take a while, but i'll give it a try. Dlohcierekim 20:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

email

sent Dlohcierekim 20:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK's advert banner is done!

Is it perfect? Can it be improved?

Penubag loves feedback. Please let him know if it can be further improved.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist   22:57, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline update - Full Steam Ahead! - 06/18/2009

Several members of the WikiProject have been hard at work.

Buaidh has been building and refining the outlines on the U.S. States, the states' historical outlines, and the Historical outline of the United States. Lately, his edits have dominated the project's watchlist readout. (I think he's overdue for a barnstar or two. hint hint)

Penubag has been working on medals for all the main branches of the OOK, and has completed the OOK WikiProject's animated advert banner (see below).

Highfields has been filling in the currencies for each country on their respective outlines.

NuclearWarfare and Thehelpfulone have been busy withWP:AWB, posting banners and notices, and helping our sister project, the Index WikiProject, get established. Indexes work hand-in-hand with the outlines and are prominently linked to from the top of most of them. And the outlines, which serve as tables of contents, are only as good as the pages they link to.

Since we started integrating (linking) the OOK and its support pages into the encyclopedia and into the Misplaced Pages community, activity on outlines has been increasing. Though there's still much left to do.

But I digress. There are a couple more...

Welcome our new members! Stefan and MacMed

Stefan is building the Outline of sharks.

MacMed has joined our advanced wiki-tools team, and is currently adding links to outlines in the corresponding subject articles' see also sections.

Be sure to stop by their talk pages and say "hi".

WPOOK's advert banner has gone live!

Penubag has finished this WikiProject's animated advert banner, and it is now being displayed on theMisplaced Pages ads template which in turn is displayed on about 2000 user pages. Each time someone access one of those pages, there is a 1 in 184 chance of them viewing this:

Misplaced Pages ad for Misplaced Pages:Wikiproject Outlines
Misplaced Pages adsfile info – #184

If you'd like to display the banner on your userpage locked-on to the ad as above, use the following code:

{{Misplaced Pages ads|ad=184}}

(By the way, it's been awhile since we've barnstarred Penubag).

Watchers needed!

If you haven't already, please add the entire project's watchlist to your watchlist. Here's how:

From the edit window, copy and paste Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist.
Or go to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist using Related changes and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu in Misplaced Pages's sidebar on the left hand side of the screen.

Check the watchlist every time you log on!

I forgot to mention this step above.  :)

The OOK is in 5 other Wikipedias?

I can't make heads or tails of 'em, but these links were on Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge:

Resurrected from the grave yard...

I discovered an AfD discussion on possibly the first article named "Outline of", which was called Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics, and which was created 4 years ago. Of course they deleted it. But now it has many friends, and so it has risen from the dead.  :)

See the DRV discussion at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2009 June 7#Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics.

A diamond buried in project space

Recruiting

Recruiters needed. Drop me a note if you are interested.

Advice from the mentors

  • Astatine-210, Strdst grl, and Willscrlt - link to the outlines from the corresponding subject articles' see also sections - this is underway by MacMed (non-country outlines) and User talk:NuclearWarfare (counry outlines).
  • Astatine-210 - add a link to the outlines to the disambiguation pages of the corresponding subjects - good idea. Since "Outline" is just the type of page, not the subject, I think these might qualify for inclusion on disambiguation pages. We need someone to look into the relevant guidelines on this.
  • SimonTrew - provide a badge (userbox) for WPOOK members to add to their user pages - Penubag will have one for us soon.
  • Zachary crimsonwolf - create a card explaining outlines, and send it to everyone you know, and make it viral (by including a request for the recipients to send the card to everyone they know) - this task has been split in three:
  1. Creation of a "thank you for your interest" card which introduces (explains) outlines, to send to queriers, new participants to discussions, those who seem to be confused about outlines, etc.
  2. Creation of a thank you card / invitation to the WPOOK, to send to users we see working on outlines, including a request for them to invite others whom they think might be interested
3. Creation of an invitation to Wikignomes, with a brief rundown on the types of tasks there are for them to do on the outlines. The invitation will include a request for them to invite anyone they think would enjoy working on outlines.
  • weebiloobil - add examples to Misplaced Pages:Outlines - more examples will be added as suitable outlines are completed
  • weebiloobil - add a picture to Misplaced Pages:Outlines (it doesn't have to be relevant), to provide atmosphere and to break it up visually and add a splash of color - will do, and we'll add a caption to make it relevant, with a link to the outline on that subject. Thank you for the idea.
  • Zachary crimsonwolf - ask Jimbo Wales to bestow the award(s) for the country outlines contest, once you get it going first - we'll give that a try
  • Zachary crimsonwolf - ask everyone in the project to inform their acquaintances around Misplaced Pages about the OOK - will do, as soon as the cards
  • UzEE - collaborate with all the WikiProjects you share scope with - we've placed a banner on their talk pages, and have placed task notices on some. We'll be posting more tasks, and plan to create a section on contents system development and maintenance for each WikiProject page itself.
  • SriMesh - if you can't get outlines added to next year's WikiCup, then create your own WikiCup-like contest - there's 6 months left to this year to address reservations and work out the details at WikiCup. In the meantime, there's the 200-WikiProject contest, which needs input.

More outline tasks

New outlines in article space

New outline drafts

Main discussion pages

Keep up the great work

I'm impressed with the level of enthusiasm and work going into the outlines. I'm proud to be working with each of you.

The Transhumanist   21:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline collaboration #2: Outline of Gibraltar

This outline is approaching completion.

I added a bunch more links, finding them with the following Google site-specific searches of Misplaced Pages:

(You can use the wikicode for the links above as the basis for new searches - just replace "Gibraltar" with any other country or region name).

Request: please redirect the redlinks! (bluelinking...)

The redlinks need to be bluelinked where possible. The most useful way is to create redirects leading to the material (which is usually included in a section of an article - see Misplaced Pages:Redirect#Redirects to page sections. That way, when the redirect pages are replaced by the actual articles, the links will already point to the right places.

Please take a crack at it, and bluelink a few.

Thank you.

Good luck.

Have fun.

The Transhumanist   00:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I finally got to whack somebody with a trout!

That was fun.  :)

The Transhumanist   23:30, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposal draft

Here's a draft, tell me what you think:

To Whom it May Concern,

A while ago, I was asked by a user to join Wikiproject Outline of Knowledge, a project which he coordinates. However, the index of outlines is a little hard to find for the newcomer. Therefore, I request that a link ofthis page be added to the 'portals' section of the main page. If you have any questions, feel free to contact The Transhumanist or myself Thank you, Tarheel95 (talk) 14:57, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Nice first try. Read Willscrlt's paragraph above your post on my talk page about "Selling the sizzle of the steak". The same principle applies here.
The proposal should focus on the benefits to the readers of Misplaced Pages, not its editors or WikiProjects. It's all about the readers.
Without asking the questions, the proposal should clearly answer "Why should the Outline of Knowledge have a link on the Main Page? How would that benefit readers?"
The proposal should also be precise as to exactly where the link will go, and show what the Main Page will look like with the change.
For that you'll need to make a mock up of the Main Page with the new link on it. That's fairly easy. Copy the source text of the main page to User:Tarheel95/Main Page with OOK link, and start editing. Then take a screen shot of it and include the screen shot in your proposal.
One thing the main page people probably won't go for is anything that pushes the rest of the page down the screen. Getting the header as small as possible was a major issue in the Main Page's design effort, and I doubt sentiments have changed on that point.
By the way, there's no need for the formal introduction ("To Whom it May Concern"). You'll just be posting the proposal as a regular message on the Main Page's talk page. It's a pretty casual hang out. You should spend some time on there before you present your proposal, to get a feel for it.
You have your work cut out for you.
Thank you for taking the initiative on this.
I look forward to reading your next draft.
Good luck.
Have fun.
The Transhumanist   15:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
P.S.: Penubag is our project's graphics and page-layout expert, and I'm pretty handy with page layout myself (I co-coordinated the design effort of the Main Page). Contact us if you run into any difficulties.

Outline update - Push push push - 06/25/2009

Work is proceeding apace...

New members
Hatnotes

The current consensus is that we can't place a hatnote leading to an outline at the top of a subject articles unless the outline being presented is of at least the same quality-level as the article.

What's next...

Improve outline quality by completing them.

Place hatnotes for the outlines of high enough quality.

Guidelines pertaining to outlines need to be updated. Outlines emerged as a class of pages only a few months ago, and most of the relevant guidelines don't cover them specifically. For example, Misplaced Pages:Stand-alone lists is incredibly out of date.

Invite wikignomes, wikielves, and wikifairies (all 2500+ of them) to help on the outlines .

Identify 600 more subjects with coverage extensive enough to justify outlines, create rudimentary drafts for them, and post notices to the corresponding WikiProjects and subject talk pages to help build them.

Convert outlines titled "List of" to outline articles, and add them to the OOK. There are a few hundred of these. Conversion instructions are needed.

Add a description of outlines to About Misplaced Pages and Misplaced Pages:Basic navigation, and add tips about outlines to the WP:TOTD and Tips library.

Keep up the great work!

The Transhumanist   20:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Request for feedback

Minnecologies has done an incredible amount of work on Outline of forestry and posted a note to me on my talk page requesting feedback.

I've posted my observations at Talk:Outline of forestry#Finished outline review.

Please take a look at the outline and let Minnecologies know what you think of it on the outline's talk page.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist   19:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Delivered by JCbot (talk) at 20:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC).

OOK's highest priority task - here's a piece of it for you

Tarheel,

The government branches sections are in error on many of the country outlines. This is an urgent problem.

Since those are in article space, we need to fix those ASAP! This is our most important task right now.

Here's a list of links that goes right to that section: User:The Transhumanist/List of country outline government sections.

I'm working on U-Z.

Your task is to correct and complete these:

WP:LINKY is especially useful for this.

Do more if you can.

Thank you.

Good luck.

Have fun.

The Transhumanist   21:45, 29 June 2009 (UTC)