This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Enkyo2 (talk | contribs) at 19:27, 29 August 2011 (→Questions posed by Tenmei: questions specifically addressed to John Smith's?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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This is a page for working on Arbitration decisions. The Arbitrators, parties to the case, and other editors may draft proposals and post them to this page for review and comments. Proposals may include proposed general principles, findings of fact, remedies, and enforcement provisions—the same format as is used in Arbitration Committee decisions. The bottom of the page may be used for overall analysis of the /Evidence and for general discussion of the case.

Any user may edit this workshop page. Please sign all suggestions and comments. Arbitrators will place proposed items they believe should be part of the final decision on the /Proposed decision page, which only Arbitrators and clerks may edit, for voting, clarification as well as implementation purposes.

Motions and requests by the parties

Request for correcting a mistaken block on my user account

2) As stated in my evidence part, I was mistakenly blocked or banned for 24 hours on July 22, 2011 . Elen of the Roads once analysed this case and clearly expressed her opinion that this blocking was a mistake . I was actually a victim of an unbalanced enforcement of rules or a kind of improper conduct that eventually ruined effort preventing edit-warring in editing that page. Elen told me that refactoring block logs unfortunately is almost unfeasible and suggested me save the diff or link of the discussion and her opinion. Here I wonder if it is possible by this chance, as my request, that Arbitration Committee can correct this mistake in any more formal format. Thank you in advance! --Lvhis (talk) 17:05, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

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Questions posed by Tenmei

In the context created by the evidence presented thus far, the differences and distinctions between Forest management and Arboriculture suggest arguable useful patterns, e.g.,

• Arboriculture is about one tree at a time
• Forest management is about many trees at a time

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1. Arboriculture is the cultivation, management, and study of individual trees, shrubs, vines, and other perennial woody plants. It is both a practice and a science and an art; e.g., "how trees grow and respond to cultural practices and to their environment ... cultural techniques such as selection, planting, training, fertilization, pest and pathogen control, pruning, shaping, and removal" plus "risk management, legal issues, and aesthetic considerations"
2. Forest management the "branch of forestry concerned with the overall administrative, economic, legal, and social aspects ... management for aesthetics"

IMO, the evidence only addresses what to do now, today. What next?

IMO, more difficult questions have to do with what could have been done or should have been done differently in the past?

IMO, more constructive questions have to do with making guesses about how to address similar uncertainties, problems, stumbling blocks, etc. which are likely to arise in the future? --Tenmei (talk) 18:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

@ Qwyrxian

Do you know the idiomatic expression "can't see the forest for the trees"? Would you agree that your evidence here is generalist and reductive? Are you willing to tweak your evidence in response to questioning? If so, can you see how it may help ArbCom to revisit your evidence with a wider perspective? On the basis of lessons learned the hard way, what could have averted this ArbCom case? what about the future? --Tenmei (talk) 18:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

@ Magog the Ogre

Do you know the idiomatic express "can't see the forest for the trees"? In your initial analysis of issues in this case, you suggested here that "some rules/guidelines for conduct and censure of the bad apples from Arbcom would be quite helpful". Are you willing to tweak your comment in response to questioning? If so, can you see how it may help ArbCom to revisit your suggestions with a wider perspective? On the basis of lessons learned the hard way, what could have averted this ArbCom case? what about the future? --Tenmei (talk) 19:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

@ John Smith's

Do you know the idiomatic express "can't see the forest for the trees"? In your initial analysis of issues in this case, you observed here that you have been "baffled by some discussions" and "disheartened by the lack of ability to agree on almost anything". You also suggest that "ometimes prevention is better than cure". Are you willing to tweak your comment in response to questioning? If so, can you see how it may help ArbCom to revisit your impressions with a wider perspective? On the basis of lessons learned the hard way, what could have averted this ArbCom case? what about the future? --Tenmei (talk) 19:27, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed final decision

Proposals by Tenmei

Proposed principles

Purpose of Misplaced Pages

1) The purpose of Misplaced Pages is to create and maintain a high-quality encyclopedia using a process of collaborative editing

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Credibility and accuracy

2) The credibility and accuracy of our content is extremely important. Our policy of verifiability requires that article content which is challenged or is likely to be challenged must be attributable to a reliable source supporting the information presented.

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Proposed findings of fact

ArbCom's failure

1) This case is a direct consequence of ArbCom's past failures to act.

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I do not understand this proposal. I don't believe this dispute was ever raised with the Arbitration Committee until this request was filed, whereupon we accepted it fairly quickly. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:42, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

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@Newyorkbrad -- in the context established by your comment here, it is counter-productive to posit that Senkaku Islands represents something like a first impression or an ArbCom "case of first impression" -- compare Coren's hortatory opinion here which informs my thinking. --Tenmei (talk) 18:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

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Gaming the system

2) Instances of "gaming the system" highlight flaws which are susceptible to amelioration, mitigation, repair.

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@ SirFozzi and David Fuchs -- Do these underlying premises assist you in coming to grips with the marriage of conduct-related and content-related issues?

@Jclemens -- Does this restatement help establish a context for addressing the problems "that MedCom defers and throws our way"?

@Coren -- Do these otherwise unstated presumptions help us move towards the "consensus could be reached if everyone behaved and where Arbcom could help by making sure everybody does"?

• Premise, Looking forward in the long-term. A structural premise of arbitration is that all necessary parties have been named; however, the scope of primary issues which frame this case must also encompass future contributors who have not yet caused us to run around the mulberry bush. In other words, we can reasonably anticipate that everything to do with the Senkaku Islands is likely to continue to attract those whose single-purpose perspective will skew our collaborative editing process.

• Premise, False dilemma in the near-term. The perception of "both sides pretty much entrenched and non-collaborative" is unhelpful because it is a self-fulfilling prophesy; and it is uninformative. struck out in response to "spin" by Bobthefish2 --Tenmei (talk) 22:52, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

@Newyorkbrad -- Does this "re-framing" or "spin" seem responsive to your comments and questions? --Tenmei (talk) 20:02, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

One point I'd agree from Tenmei's post is that Qwyrxian's critique about "both sides pretty much entrenched and non-collaborative" is unhelpful and is, in fact, slanderous. Given a number of parties had contributed greatly in bringing clarity to the matter, it is nothing short of insulting to condemn everyone's participation as "non-collaborative" and "entrenched". --Bobthefish2 (talk) 21:17, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Re: Tenmei's strike-out shown immediately above . This is an example of Tenmei's attitude where he regularly attacks the intentions of other people with labels like "spin", "toxic long-term warrior", "marginalize", "shill", etc. Here's a small (but not limiting) sample of similar attacks in the past . It wouldn't have been a problem if these comments were backed up by real arguments, but they really weren't. :/ --Bobthefish2 (talk) 23:32, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

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Proposed remedies

These are not all my words, but I propose them as if they were my own. --Tenmei (talk) 17:12, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Real world factions

1) ArbCom acknowledges real-world factions that vie for control over articles, turning them into polemical battlegrounds where surface civility is used to cover bias, tendentiousness and even harassment.

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We are well aware that this is another example of an ethnic-national dispute of a type that gives rise to a great number of disputes on Misplaced Pages, including a significant portion of arbitration cases. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:43, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

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@Newyorkbrad -- is it possible for you to perceive the overview you posit is part of the problem, not part of the solution? The phrase "another example of an ethnic-national dispute" contrives arguably reasonable pigeonholes and a false dilemma at the same time. For example, the perception of "both sides pretty much entrenched and non-collaborative" is unhelpful, not because it is obviously false, but because it is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Your sentence has a similar self-fulfilling character which tends to obscure rather than clarify. For example, the analysis fails to acknowledge -- and marginalizes -- the cumulative edits of Qwyxian, including his ability and willingness to change across a span of months, as explained here.

In this ArbCom context, your task is to parse the available data to distinguish between a dispute which is primarily about water and rocks and something else which has water and rocks as significant elements. Do you see the difference? Are your words opening a door or shutting out something unforseen? --Tenmei (talk) 19:47, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

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Rules and policies as weapons

2) ArbCom acknowledges "polite disruption" by those who misuse our rules and policies as weapons.

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Vested toxic warriors

3) ArbCom acknowledges toxic long-term warriors who are misconstrued as "vested" contributors.

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Information asymmetry and moral hazard

4) ArbCom acknowledges the marriage of "content" and "conduct" informed by the related concepts of Information asymmetry (ja:情報の非対称性) and Moral hazard (zh:道德风险); and this means less timidity in addressing issues related to content including POV warring, tag teams, academic dishonesty, etc.

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I do not understand specifically what you are driving at with this proposal. Please explain in a bit more detail (but only a bit more, please). Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:44, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

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These concepts are illustrated in the diffs of Qwyrxian and Bobthefish2 in one short thread Talk:Senkaku Islands/Archive 7#U.S. Control prior to 1972. --Tenmei (talk) 19:49, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

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Curtailing content disputes

5) ArbCom acknowledges that failure to curtail content disputes has unintended consequences. Misplaced Pages fails when academic integrity is not a priority, e.g., unlike "simple" incivility, the damage caused by editors misquoting, plagiarizing and editorializing affects the credibility of our work.

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Transparency

6) ArbCom acknowledges that inadequate transparency in the dispute resolution process limits the ability of the community to find ways to mitigate future problems.

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Reasons and justification

7) ArbCom acknowledges that there is a need for ArbCom to explain decision-making, including reasons and justification.

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This is why we use a somewhat stereotyped, sometimes overlong format for our decisions in full-fledged arbitration cases like this one. I gather that you are alleging that the committee has failed to provide adequate explanation in a relevant, past instance when this dispute was raised before us, but as noted above, I do not recall that and would appreciate a link or a citation. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:45, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

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Proposals by User2

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