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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. 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Vecrumba

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Vecrumba

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Russavia 13:46, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Vecrumba (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:EEML#Editors_restricted

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 24 August 2011 Vecrumba's words are clearly commenting directly on myself as an editor, rather than focusing on content. His words all but accuse me of being antagonistic in Baltic topics (as opposed to often presenting a POV which others neglect to add at the beginning); his words also all but accuse me of being a troll (rather than a long-term editor in good standing); his words also all but accuse me of being petty; his words also assume bad faith on my part (although he states he AGF); his words also paint a negative appearance of myself, rather than focusing on content.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

As per Misplaced Pages:EEML#Log_of_blocks.2C_bans.2C_and_restrictions Vecrumba has been blocked 3 times for breaching this interaction ban.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Vecrumba's breach of the topic ban is somewhat inflammatory, as it has nothing to do with content, but rather it is a direct personal attack on myself. The comments by User:Future Perfect at Sunrise at Vecrumba's last personal attack on myself are still current it appears (and he was blocked for 3 weeks for that attack).

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Response to Canens

In light of the fact that the article in question was started in 2008, and was seen by way of being a "see also" on Occupation of the Baltic States, there is no interaction breach by my nominating for AfD an article which in good faith I believe is not notable enough for inclusion on WP. Note in everything I have written about the article in question, I have not made a single comment about the editor, but have concentrated purely on content, as per advice given by an arbiter at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Russavia-Biophys/Proposed_decision#Potential_problem_with_restrictions -- at no stage was my nomination driven by who created it, but it is concentrated purely upon content. I have even stated on the record that any editor under an interaction ban with myself is welcome to comment on anything and everything, so long as they concentrate on content only, as per advice of Carcaroth.

Given that you are now suggesting a one-week block for myself due to my taking heed of advice given by an arb at an Arbcom case, I will be heading you off at the pass on this block by seeking clarification from the committee itself as to what is and isn't allowed under these interaction bans, and you are more than welcome to make known your opinion there. If it is the opinion of the committee that my nominating an article which doesn't comply with many WP policies for AfD that this is disruptive, then I will take issue with the committee directly due to the interaction bans not being intended to stop editors from editing articles in good faith (as per the committee members own words). --Russavia 17:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Response to both admins (Canens and Ed)

I would like you to note that the AfD has seen involvement from other editors who are banned from interacting with me (Vecrumba and Volunteer Marek), so going by your own words they should also be blocked for their involvement in the AfD, seeing as it was started by myself. However, I would not go to AE just for their involvement, so long as content is the only thing being discussed. I don't take the view of issues regarding content being a violation of the interaction ban but if they are, then Volunteer Marek would also be in a more obvious violation with his involvement. However, Vecrumba's involvement was not based on content; instead he chose from the outset to delve into personal attacks on myself, and that is the only reason I have come here. --Russavia 01:13, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Comments re

Sander Sade : Firstly, please note that Sander Sade was also a member of the EEML, so he is not a neutral, outside observer, but was a willing participant in harrassment and gaming that occurred in EE topics; and at the very least, he allowed it to occur by keeping quiet onwiki about it. It does not surprise me that he also pushes for me to receive an EE topic ban -- this was Article 1 in the EEML manifesto -- eliminate all opponents. Unfortunately, for Sander Sade, and others who push for me to receive such a topic ban, we have the likes of User:Miacek, with whom I can collaboratively edit with in this area; for we both recognise the fact that neither of us are here to engage in advocacy and rabid POV-pushing. User:Pelmeen10 gave me a barnstar back in March "For your contributions internationally and to improve Estonian-Russian relationship." Now if one other ex-EEML member, and another editor who edits a lot in Estonian-related areas, see no problem with my edits, then one has to question why all of these EEML members are pushing for me to topic banned, when not a single one has shown a single article edit of mine which is overtly POV, which doesn't rely on reliable sources, or which is truly disruptive. The truth of the matter there isn't a single edit in the last years that would fit this, let alone the last few weeks. So I hope that admins see such arguments by EEML members for exactly what they are; unnecessary furtherment of the battleground in the EE area. --Russavia 06:39, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Vecrumba

Statement by Vecrumba

My words have nothing to do with TFD or Russavia individually, but who are symptomatic in this case. If civility and good faith are ever going to reign on Misplaced Pages in the Baltic and Eastern European article space, we can't have editors who misrepresent sources making out Baltic individuals to be Nazis or editors who fulminate over propagandic foreign ministries being the first ones who line up to nominate content for deletion which refers to the Soviet Union occupying the Baltic states. In my view, that is outright WP:HARASSMENT of the editor(s) who created that content. It's not an article deletion nomination in good faith when we all know that it's going to provoke another fist-fight. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 21:44, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

P.S. My comments at the AfD can apply only to TFD (Lia Looveer supporting Nazis article content) without the involvement of Russavia. But as Russavia has seen fit to assault me here, I am now applying to both. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 21:50, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

@TFD, I regret my personal perception is that your support of the AfD is partisan as you would know very well given past conflicts that we would eventually end up in some sort of dispute resolution. Whatever the spat Russavia has with another editor is not my concern. To avoid such unfortunate perceptions on my part and I suspect that of others in the future, we would all do well not to piss on the content of editors we consider to be our editorial opposition. I don't piss on anyone's Russophile content as I get no satisfaction from stomping on the good efforts of other individuals—I applaud and support all those whose love of their culture and heritage brings them to contribute to Misplaced Pages. Unfortunately, it seems that not all share my sentiments. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 15:31, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

@Nanobear, I regret your venom over what you believe are personal attacks by myself against other editors. Russavia's historically anti-Baltic biased editorial position (I can provide diffs) and provocative timing of removing content which is not complimentary to Russia (recent activities) and seeming tit-for-tat leaps into AE requests (and, I ask you, when is the last time I originated one of these to pour gasoline on the fire?) present, to me, an activism which runs counter to our collegial cooperation. We should all consider going to bed early tonight and wake up on a less stressful side of the bed. That you've been completely inactive in the Soviet-Baltic Russian-Baltic sphere of topics but show up in short order to denounce me along the line of your past attacks on my character do not bode well for our moving on from past conflict. As for your diffs of me "attacking" you, I will simply start filing arbitration enforcement requests instead of simply complaining, as this seems to be a contest about who can eliminate who for how long having nothing to do with any postive aspect of Misplaced Pages. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 00:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

P.S. @Nanobear, what you characterize as a "personal attack" upon your person was my comment to you regarding this outrageous attack upon myself with fabricated contentions of secret conspiracies. I regret this pattern of your tirades making yourself out to be the offended party ignoring that you are the originator of the conflict, having launched the initial assault. From now on I will commit to you to no longer complain (i.e., personally attack you), and instead will simply file enforcement requests, as that—unfortunately for us all—appears to be the only sort of interaction you're currently interested in pursuing in the sphere of Baltic topics. You have exhausted my patience and any good will that we had started to build up to the point of your attack which I mention above. (Anyone can reference my comment to you in the diff you provide which comes prior to my so-called attack.) PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 17:26, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

To the point in question, this subsequent request to delete content regarding a reputable source ("The Case For Latvia") which punctures myths regarding Latvia—including fiction which the Russian government continues to maintain is fact—rather proves my point, as:

1. Neither Tammsalu nor I can comment or act or edit the article in any way as that will just bring more enforcement requests by Russavia or Nanobear or someone else participating here on the attack as Russavia now owns the article owing to the current interpretation of the interaction ban
2. Confirmation of this act as a disgustingly cynical display of article control is proven by the fact that the article had not been touched in a year and a half and Russavia acted without any prior discussion on the talk page, so, a preemptive—and certainly overeager not waiting until I'm banned unless it was hoped to provoke another so-called "attack"—action to delete WP:IDONTLIKEIT content while his editorial opposition's hand are tied

Russavia's conduct prompting my original comment and, in particular, Russavia's continuing disruptive and combative conduct with regard to eliminating content not speaking highly of the Soviet legacy and Russia's defense thereof, conclusively and undeniably demonstrates that my alleged "personal attack" upon Russavia is nothing more than the factual observation it was intended as regarding the appearance of editors (plural) advocating along prior party lines.

Now that how the interaction ban works is clear, I will address the next such deletion request to eliminate content Russavia personally disapproves of via enforcement request, not factual and benign commentary. That said, I still

1. support a ban on all enforcement requests and arbitration filings by everyone who participated at the EEML case in the area of contention, that is, the portrayal of the Soviet Union, the Soviet legacy, and the fallout of those acts and legacies relative to current Eastern European and Baltic nations and their relationship with Russia
2. support the elimination of all interaction bans so we can discuss reputable sources and content

As I am confident in my use of sources and fair representation thereof, I feel no need to ban my editorial opposition. The question is, why is it so critical to Russavia and Nanobear to single me out to be banned? PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 14:08, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Vecrumba

Vecrumba implies that Russavia initiated an AfD for partisan reasons. The comments are unhelpful and disruptive to the AfD. TFD (talk) 14:41, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Nanobear

Starting an AfD about an article falls into the article space, not interaction space. Neither Russavia nor Tammsalu are subjects of the AfD. It is no personalization in itself and not covered by an interaction ban. Please see Misplaced Pages:Interaction_ban#Interaction_ban. Nanobear (talk) 20:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

According to arbitrator Carcharoth, commenting on content is allowed: please see here. And that's exactly what Russavia did when he initiated the AfD. Nanobear (talk) 20:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

This should probably be sent to ArbCom for a clear clarification (ha!), because I've seen two admins disagree here on what an IBAN should or shouldn't allow. The core issue is how much AGF should go into "I didn't know I was reverting/AfDing stuff added by someone with whom interaction is prohibited", and what should be done in the inevitable cases when it does happen: revert or allow content discussion between the ibanned parties? FuFoFuEd (talk) 02:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

So talking about content previously edited by Tammsalu is a violation of interaction ban? This seems to be a completely different opinion that what we currently have in our policy. The policy specifically allows content edits. Russavia was only discussing content - which is allowed - until Vecrumba launched an extremely offensive personal attack against him (not the first time Vecrumba has made such attacks). The only correct thing to do is to then report the attacker on this noticeboard, which is what Russavia did. It seems that you wish to ban Russavia for doing everything correctly. This seems to be completely at odds with current policy. Nanobear (talk) 01:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

History of Vecrumba's incivility and personal attacks against editors

After Vecrumba's last personal attack on Russavia (for which he was blocked for 3 weeks), and because Vecrumba is now continuing such attacks, it seems clear that a longer block is now in order for him. This is especially the case since Vecrumba's defence of his attack (see his section above) is an attempt to deflect from the fact that the personal attacks were clearly directed against Russavia.

If the personal attack really wasn't directed against Russavia, but against TFD (which seems unlikely), like Vecrumba claims, then this only demonstrates that Vecrumba has a major problem staying civil in the EE topic area. It looks like Vecrumba deems it necessary to attack all editors instead of commenting on content only, as Russavia notes above. In this case, discretionary sanctions of WP:DIGWUREN apply, and given Vecrumba's battlefield mentality a complete block from the EE area seems now warranted.

I too have been the target of Vecrumba's attacks on many occasions. Two recent examples are: . In Vecrumba launches an attack against a respected admin (Future Perfect at Sunrise), because the admin dared to block an EEML member. Nanobear (talk) 02:23, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Tammsalu

On the general issue of what constitutes a personal attack, a review of WP:NPA#WHATIS may be helpful, particularly the fourth bullet point "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence". On an abstract level, if a party subject to such an accusation is also under an interaction ban or banned in the past, then such evidence must demonstrably exist. For example if someone said to me something like "I regret you have chosen to revert to your former belligerent conduct." given my block log I really can't claim it was a personal attack, can I. --Martin Tammsalu (talk) 19:52, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

• The AfD at the centre of this case has been closed with the admin making the observation "most participants on both sides of the issue are people who I remember as having been involved in nationalist disputes related to historic conflicts in Eastern Europe including issues related to the Baltic states", which somewhat vindicates Vecrumba's viewpoint expressed in the AfD. It wasn't a personal attack. --Martin Tammsalu (talk) 00:17, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

• Arbcom is now be examining the issue of interaction bans at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment#Request_to_amend_prior_case:_Russavia-Biophys, therefore this case can be closed with no further action. --Martin Tammsalu (talk) 08:15, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Sander Säde

This is getting ridiculous. It is painfully obvious that the interaction bans do not work and are often used to game the system.

There is not much to say for Vecrumba. Whether his comment was targeted at Russavia or TFD, whether he was right or not, it doesn't matter. The comment was out of line and should be treated as such.

After he was reported to Arbitration Enforcement last time, Russavia's behavior became excessively pointy - one could even say he set out intentionally to see how far he can stretch the iban. And now he is about to receive yet another addition to his extremely lengthy block log. What is the point in that, it is painfully obvious Russavia sees nothing wrong with his current or past behavior and refuses to change it.

I would recommend an indefinite full ban from any topic related to Eastern Europe, Baltics, Soviet Union and Russia, with the exception of aviation industry and Russia's international relations (but not in case of relations with aforementioned Baltic States and Eastern European countries) - and make it very clear in the wording that it is Russavia's very last chance before getting an indefinite ban from Misplaced Pages.

That would allow Russavia editing noncontroversial topics where he is a valued contributor - and would keep him out of trouble with editors and topics he has issues with. If some editor follows him to aviation topics and starts to cause trouble for Russavia - banhammer should come down heavily there.

Remove all interaction bans related to Russavia, as they are no longer (hopefully) needed. Wikipeace is restored and everybody are happily contributing, instead of wasting time bickering at ArbCom pages.

--Sander Säde 05:57, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Sigh. Russavia, please stop perpetuating the nonsensical myth you were harassed or singled out in any way by EEML. Let me spell it our for you once again: No one in EEML didn't give a flaming f**k about you. You were but one in a crowd - and not even a leading the well-organized crowd. During the EEML case I did a several searches to see if you were mentioned without the others of said crowd - and no, you were not (of course, I did not have the emails prior to my joining to the list, so I cannot vouch for those). No one has been able to show you were harassed in any way. Please, just stop already, no arbitrator or administrator believes you.

Secondly, you say I've participated in "harrassment and gaming", despite that a very thorough ArbCom investigation did not find anything similar to your claims. Stop with the lies and personal attacks.

Thirdly, "EEML manifesto"?!!! WTF is that and why didn't I get a copy of it when I joined the mailing list - joined a list of people from very varied backgrounds to discuss Misplaced Pages. Discussions, which were by most part completely harmless (again, as found by ArbCom).

Also, could you please look at least a bit to your sentence structure? As a non-native English speaker, I have a hard time understanding the point of your comment, other than "he was in EEML, he is eeeeeeeeeevil, since we all know EEML was eeeeeeeeeevil. Eeeeeeeeeevil!". We both know very well that if EEML ArbCom case would have been about content, behavior and coordination of both "sides", EEML would have looked angelical compared to "child abuse is common in Estonia" people.

That is my last comment here for this enforcement request. I see no reason to endure being blatantly attacked for suggesting a reasonable and fair solution.

--Sander Säde 09:18, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Vecrumba

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• I'm of the view that Russavia's initiation of that AfD violated their interaction ban with Tammsalu - see my comment here - and Vecrumba's comment violated their interaction ban with Russavia - which is plain. Proposing 1 week blocks for both. T. Canens (talk) 17:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Irrelevant sidenote: Every time I see myself being referred to as Canens I chuckle a little. It's the present active participle of the Latin verb cano, -ere, meaning "singing". No, it's not a surname. T. Canens (talk) 11:58, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
• Agree with T. Canens that one-week blocks of both Russavia and Vecrumba are justified for violating the respective interaction bans: Russavia's with Tammsalu, and Vecrumba's interaction ban with Russavia. The feud between the EEML people and Russavia is not over, and the only restriction still in place which can limit the effects of this feud is the set of interaction bans. EdJohnston (talk) 03:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

• I've been discussing the future of these interaction bans with some users. If I can find support for doing something different I'll propose it back here. Please consider keeping the thread open for a couple more days. EdJohnston (talk) 15:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Vecrumba 2

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Vecrumba 2

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Nanobear (talk) 02:55, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Vecrumba (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:EEML#Editors_restricted

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 28 August 2011

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Vecrumba has been blocked many times for violating this ban

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

1. Vecrumba has done a wholesale revert of Russavia on an article which subject is directly within Russavia's editing interests. Vecrumba states that it is a good faith revert, yet he also reverts the bypassing of a redirect by Russavia, demonstrating that it is not a selective revert, but an outright revert. Vecrumba is obviously attempting harrass Russavia, and is breaching his interaction ban in a very provocative manner. Given the other issue of Vecrumba's personal attacks on Russavia (see above thread), a topic ban at the very least seems to be warranted for Vecrumba.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Vecrumba 2

Statement by Vecrumba

This filing is nothing but a personal attack by Nanobear, who has been absent from the topic area or proceedings other than to attack me or to make out my complaints about his attacks as being attacks originated by myself. If you want to stop the madness, ban everyone who has participated in any of these from ever filing arbitration enforcement requests against each other. What, I undo a POV delete of content, and that is editorial interaction which is banned, yet the same editor can attack me at will at arbitration enforcement? Am I the only one who sees how ludicrous this is? Don't make me out to be the villain when I undo the deletion of reputable content by an editor inimical to the Baltics—a deletion which was accompanied a edit justification which was a personal characterization of a reputable source as unsubstantiated allegations. As requested, I undid my revert of that deletion, although that does set the precedent that in any set of editors who are banned from interacting, whoever gets there first automatically gets to have their content win with no recourse for the other editor(s). Given that Baltic topics are down to two or three editors who haven't been run off, this filing by Nanobear to get me blocked is, effectively, a cynical and overt bid for topic control. And as long as Nanobear and Russavia engage in provocative behavior gaming the system to eliminate editors, the atmosphere will remain poisoned. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 23:03, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Vecrumba 2

Comment by Volunteer Marek

So much for the idea that AE reconciles warring parties or actually manages to solve problems. As this retaliatory AE request clearly demonstrates, AE makes battlegrounds WORSE, by providing dedicated warriors a venue to pursue their grudges. And yes, you AE admins are to blame for this - discussing some esoteric nuances of what an interaction ban is or arguing over whether a series of reverts/AfD nominations/drive-by-tagging by a user under an interaction ban actually constitutes a violation of an interaction ban or are content edits not included (seriously? The whole freakin' point of these bans is to get users separated from content they perennial fight over! How hard is it to see that?) is exactly the kind of thing that pours gasoline on these fires (where the hell is Sandstein? I miss him - he got things wrong sometimes but at least he didn't make things worse).

Enjoy:

You want to end this, it's simple:

1. Topic-ban Martin and Vecrumba from editing anything related to Aviation or Embassies (which is mostly where Russavia edits) as well as the Russian space program (which is where Nanobear edits)
2. Topic-ban Russavia and Nanobear from editing anything related to Estonia, Latvia, Poland or Ukraine (for good measure throw in Hungary and Romania, where there's been trouble in the past). For the most part the aviation/embassy/space program articles for these countries have already been written, can be written by someone else or don't need to be written. This way both of them can do the good they do on Misplaced Pages - contribute content - without the bad they do - keep fucking with Estonian/Baltic/Polish/Ukrainian editors for no reason except some kind of way old grudge.
3. Prohibit all of these parties from filing any AE/AN-I/similar drama board requests against each other (hell, throw me in there too) or from commenting on AE/AN-I/similar drama board requests related to each other.

If you're feeling nice then include some kind of provision to the effect that any of the above can be appealed after three years or so (note that this latest round is a rehash of two year old edit wars! Apparently people here have a long memory in this topic area. That needs to be taken into consideration). And if you're feeling wary of potential gaming then make scary faces and wag your fingers and say in a deep baritone that any potential gaming of these sanctions will be severely punished (I'm being a bit facetious, but I'm serious at the same time - this whole thing started because of gaming of interaction bans).

Otherwise prepare to loose more good contributors, deal with a whole bunch of nonsense and look forward to playing a role in escalating the conflict further. But hey, at least then that will give WP:AE a justification for its existence.

Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:44, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Tammsalu

Arbcom is now be examining the issue of interaction bans at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment#Request_to_amend_prior_case:_Russavia-Biophys, therefore this case, in which the revert at issue has been un-reverted, can be closed with no further action. I am sure that those certain people who profess to focus on content rather than on editors, would also agree that this case be closed. --Martin Tammsalu (talk) 08:13, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Russavia

The article in question is clearly within my scope of interest, so for anyone to claim that I am removing information based upon some warped sense of what my POV is, which then sees an editor needing to breach their interaction ban like they did - they were not involved. I also have good mine to ask for check user on a particular editor who only edits when there are disputes ongoing, and they have been around for some time by the looks it, given that they have a knack for pulling info out of article from 3-4 years ago. As to this being discussed at Amendment, I have made it clear that under no circumstances do I want the interaction ban with certain editors looked at---for they are engaged in combative, personal attacks which are reminiscent of the EE battleground of 2 years ago---2 editors in particular. Therefore, given my comments on EdJohnstons, about the particular editor in question, this is still an open case, given that after undoing the revert, they continued to engage in personal attacks upon myself, and other editors. That's all I have to say, I'm back off to work on content. --Russavia 08:36, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Vecrumba 2

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• At my request Vecrumba has undone his edit at Latvia–Russia_relations. The overall problem of how to keep Russavia and the EEML editors out of each others' hair is still being considered above, in a previous report which is still open. EdJohnston (talk) 14:08, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Someone35 (2)

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Someone35 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Someone35 (talk) 08:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

Topic banned for 3 months

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Result_concerning_Someone35

Administrator imposing the sanction

T. Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

here

Statement by Someone35

I got banned less than half a day after my first ban ended. I haven't edited anything that is not a talk page or my userpage since then. The admin who banned me said I'm banned for breaking these rules, but they explicitly state that " impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages". And I wasn't warned (which is also required, "Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision". I wasn't given any warning before he banned me.) and I didn't edit any page since before my first ban. This ban is really unnecessary. I removed the sentence that I was banned for in the moment I saw that other users complained about it because I understood it was wrong and as an apologize to Nableezy (and I removed the userboxes on my talk page too). I have only made about 3 edits that count as "disruptive" (2 at Qula and one at Palestinian rabbis), all in the same day and I already got banned for it and won't do this kind of edits again. So if you can either narrow or remove the topic ban I'll be thankful and won't attack other editors or edit war again. I agree to mentorship, if T. Canens approves it as well.-- Someone35 (talk) 05:28, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Timotheus Canens

Even now, I see nothing in Someone35's writings that he understood the reasons for the topic ban. My reasons for imposing the ban has been explained in the thread above, which I will not duplicate here. My views stay unchanged. If Someone35's misconduct is due to simple inexperience, then it is best for them to acquire that experience in a topic that is not rife with interpersonal disputes. If you discover that someone is struggling with math, putting him in a calculus class would be a spectacularly bad way to solve the problem.

Broader comments:

• I have become convinced that the time-limited bans previously employed in this topic area have been ineffective in controlling disruption. What is often the case is that the editor jumps back into the topic area as soon as the ban expires, only to be banned again for misconduct shortly thereafter. Therefore, I will employ indefinite topic bans with periodic reviews, similar to the topic bans used in WP:ARBRB, in this topic area in the future, in the absence of extraordinary circumstances.
• Moreover, it has become apparent, sadly, that disputes from this area has been exported into related topics. Moreover, narrow topic bans tend to be actually harder to observe, since in many cases the line is not quite as clear-cut. This is why I opted for a broader ban from the entire Middle East in this case and will do so for all future cases, unless special factors are present.

How can I prove you that I fit for editing in middle east related topics?-- Someone35 (talk) 11:18, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000 (somewhat involved)

As far as I know, Someone35 is yet to acknowledge that he did anything wrong at all. On the contrary, he thinks the 1RR rule is "stupid". Is that attitude conducive to a reprieve? Where can we see a clear statement that he respects the rules and undertakes to abide by them? Zero 11:11, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I meant that this rule is easy to bypass not that it's stupid that people can't revert other people's edits for an infinite amount of time. Also according to this I was supposed to get a warning before the ban, and I didn't. If T. Canens gave me a warning that I'll get another ban I would have stopped immediately doing whatever I did.-- Someone35 (talk) 12:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Demiurge1000 (uninvolved)

I'm going to use this section to note the deep and presumably unintentional irony of what Russavia said in the now-closed Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Someone35 (i.e. his first appeal, above). "Any editor who attacks another editor using either nationality, race, religion, etc as the underlying basis of the attack should be shown the door immediately." Does etc include age? If so, it seems odd to follow that sentence immediately with a disrespectful comment based on Someone35's age. (I'll assume that the threat to contact someone in a position of authority over Someone35 was made entirely in jest; people have received lengthy bans from Misplaced Pages, never mind the topic area, for that sort of thing.)

I think Someone35 should immediately retract any suggestion (anywhere) that Nableezy or others are "stalking" him, and apologise for the "anti-Semite" remark (I note he removed it some time ago anyway, but I think he needs to accept that his reasons for thinking it was justifiable were incorrect). Then I think some consideration should be given to shortening or otherwise ameliorating this topic ban. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 12:45, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

• Just a note that Someone35 won't be able to act promptly on the first half of my suggestions as, according to his talkpage, he's offline until sometime on 30th August. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm back, I was away for only 1.5 days and there were no traffic jams so I came back fast. I already removed the userboxes on my talk page and the problematic sentence in Hebrew about Nableezy and the Jerusalem Talmud. According to ], I was supposed to get a warning before being banned (like Nableezy told me to revert my edits at Qula before the first time I was banned), and I didn't. If T. Canens would have given a warning to me then I would have stopped immediately whatever wrong I did-- Someone35 (talk) 12:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Looking at this another way, if you're in a class at school and you pour a bottle of cola over a classmate's head, you don't then say "well if the teacher had told me it was wrong then I would have stopped doing it." You're expected to know already that it's wrong to do that in the middle of a class, so it is likely to result in consequences. You need to look at this again and think about it; you were in the wrong here, and there was no need for an extra warning before action being taken. Your accepting that is probably important. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:48, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Russavia (totally uninvolved)

The editor chose to engage in personal attacks against another editor, and then when caught out they say that the editor has no right to complain because it was written in Hebrew. This, in my opinion, is more egregious, as he has not only chosen to engage in personal attacks (which is already enough to be shown the door), but has done so in another language in an attempt to avoid being caught, and then when challenged on it he doesn't see any problem with it. And he only got a topic ban? I'd say he got off light, as if I were the subject of a personal attack, I'd be pushing for a complete block for at least that period of time, given that the editor in question sees nothing wrong with making personal attacks on other editors. --Russavia 20:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC}

I removed that sentence in the moment I saw he complained about it and I pretty much learned the lesson this time and I won't do such things again-- Someone35 (talk) 07:40, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Wikifan12345 (involved in topic area)

@Russ-Civility is totally independent of the area in conflict. A topic ban would not be the appropriate punishment for personal attacks - a comprehensive block (typically 24 hours first offense) would be fair. The problem I have is this kid has zero record, no prior blocks, and no accusations since he started an account however many months ago. I don't understand how a 72 hour block can mutate into a 3-month topic ban pending appeal (not even a timed ban). Nableezy himself said the conflict was ended after Someone removed his statement:

I cant say that there is presently an issue. A fourteen year old child said something stupid, it has been removed, end of story as far as I am concerned. Should this child be allowed to continue editing such topics? Not my decision, and not really sure if that is a question to decide here.

Someone removed the comment when he was able to (blocked for 72 hours) and that seemed to settle things. Editors aren't expected to humiliate themselves to prove their ability to edit productivity. He violated basic civility rules by accusing one editor of being anti-semitic. He has stricken the statements, thus admitting the comments were unacceptable. Beyond that I don't see any other behavioral problems. Nableezy filed the original AE, does he/she believe this Someone "child" deserves such a long topic ban? Wikifan 23:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

In light of this edit, I find myself struggling to defend Someone's behavior. As an obviously young editor I would hope administrators would be more forgiving in situations like these. An editor with a vested interest in a crucial area of Misplaced Pages must understand the dynamic process of collaboration and contribution. I'd say many editors start out with a very SOAPY/opinionated mentality, but eventually normalize themselves with typical procedure and policy.

Someone35 meets this definition. The topic ban imposed on Someone is punitive in nature and will not alter his behavior. How else will he learn the rules if he can't experience the environment? If admins wish to alter Someone's behavior, a whole-sale topic ban is futile. Throwing out users like Someone only deters potential editors from joining the very saturated and almost clan-like pool of I/P users. Someone's original 72 hour block was justified, but the 3 month ban is - ultimately - very hard to support when looking at the evidence independent of commentary from involved users. A personal attack, one edit-war (and barely one), and obvious civility problems. These can be rectified through mentorship, and punished with short blocks. It might be hard for educated admins to understand the brain chemistry of a young editor. Perhaps a user who is closer to his age (openly of course) could weigh in? Wikifan 06:47, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

I was trying to be nicer to him by talking with him about a subject that he seems to be interested in (israeli palestinian conflict), but it went nowhere so I deleted that section-- Someone35 (talk) 08:00, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Cptnono (involved and biased)

The original block was longer than precedent would point to being acceptable. The ban was without any admin actually attempting to counsel the guy. The disruption of edit warring was handled with the block. The incivility was much less than many in the community have gotten away with or received shorter bans for (name calling, legal threats, and so on). Although I would not blame it on him being a kid (if he wants to hang out on the internet he will learn to not divulge information others can use against him) I would blame it on inexperience. I do think he needs to grovel a bit. That is what the admins are looking for. It is wrong of them but that is what they want.

His offenses are worthy of a strong warning and a good mentoring. Not a long block based off of one editor running into trouble with several others on an opposing side. But if he refuses to admit wrong I don't care what happens to him.

You are involved and biased Zero. Cptnono (talk) 05:22, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Malik Shabazz (involved)

Having spoken with Someone35 earlier today, I believe he is a very young editor who needs to learn quite a bit about how Misplaced Pages operates. I don't know whether a complete overturn of his topic ban is appropriate, but if it stands I think it should be narrowed to the Arab–Israeli conflict (and not the whole Middle East) so Someone35 can contribute constructively to articles on non-controversial subjects related to Israel (nature, geography, etc.). I think he would benefit tremendously from mentorship; if nobody else steps forward to mentor him, I will do it myself. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 21:00, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Someone35

Following the suggestions made by Malik Shabazz and Ctpnono above, I have suggested to Someone35 that mentoring is something he should consider accepting. He has offers of that from both myself and Malik. I have also made some suggestions about ways forward (in addition to my comments under my statement, above.) While I think the topic ban was reasonable, I do feel that it would be useful if Someone35, being a young teenager, were able to edit articles about the country that he lives in. (My understanding is that the present topic ban does not allow that.) He's already been editing constructively about weather and geography and such, and he takes quite a few useful panoramas of landscapes in Israel and Palestine (one of his panorama images is already a featured image). Encouragement to continue contributing positively, would be really useful. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:06, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree and thank you for this solution, now we need T. Canens to confirm it-- Someone35 (talk) 18:11, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I think you mean "agree to it" ... which he may or may not do, and he is under no obligation to comment either way, as far as I know.

Being slightly more specific, the suggestion is to narrow the topic ban so that it covers editing and discussions related to the Israel-Palestine-Arab conflict, broadly construed; but not all articles/discussions related to the Middle East as a whole. (So for example, editing an article about Tel Aviv would be permissible; but editing information or discussions about who recognises Tel Aviv as the capital city of Israel would not be permissible, because that touches on the conflict.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:52, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I missed T.Canens' rather important earlier comment, when I made my comments above. T.Canens is correct that Someone35 has been slow to acknowledge any understanding of the reasons for the topic ban. (I'm working on that...) I can also readily accept that the move to a wider topic ban ("the entire Middle East" rather than just dispute areas) was for good reasons. I can well imagine that there are problems with narrow topic bans, and even similar risks with Someone35 (for example, some of his photographs, taken from within Israel, have the Golan Heights in the background... all sorts of potential problems there.) What I will offer is that, if I'm mentoring Someone35, I will be keeping an eye on his contributions, and also laying down the law as to what topics exactly he is permitted to edit on. I'm sure there will be risks of his edits drifting into contentious areas, but I won't be allowing it. If he fools around with those limitations, I will request the topic ban be expanded again.

This entire proposal is rather up in the air, since Someone35 needs to agree that the narrowing of the topic ban is what he wants, and perhaps he also needs to make a few statements that indicate he understands why his behaviour incurred a topic ban in the first place. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:24, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand why T.Canens' new philosophy is suddenly being imposed on a first time offender. For a veteran at AE (like myself) - yeah, sure - but as stated dozens of times he has no prior history. The original filer, Nableezy, has, as far as I know, accepted Someone's apology and stricken edits. He was blocked for incivility. What exact contributions made by Someone warrant a topic ban? Personal attacks alone is not grounds for a whole-sale topic ban. No where in ARBPIA does it suggest editors are supposed to admit explicit guilt for alleged bad behavior. He is a kid, let him contribute. His photo collection is great and it would be nice to have a fresh editor. If he ends up violating ARBPIA then throw the book at him. Wikifan 07:24, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

(Just a note that Someone35 has changed his statement to indicate a better understanding of why the topic ban was necessary - convenience diff. I'll explain elsewhere how strikeout would usually be a better way of doing things like this for the future.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:28, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Someone35

• In this particular case, involving a newer and younger editor, I believe the voices arguing for a second chance have the field, particularly as Someone35 has now acknowledged the problem. I am accordingly reducing the topic ban to a three month fixed period, and restricting it to the Israel-Palestine conflict, anywhere on the project. To clarify a point raised above, the young person may submit photographs of any location, provided they do not get into arguments about the history or politics of the subject.

• Someone35 - you have been given a second chance. I recommend that you accept the mentorship offered to you by Malik Shabazz and Demiurge1000 (pick one or both), avoid the restricted area scrupulously, and remain WP:CIVIL. If you do not, the consequences are likely to be far more severe than the restriction appealed. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:55, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Jingiby

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Jingiby

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Jingiby (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBMAC

Dscretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

• 3RR violation at Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia, edit-warring against two other users on two distinct issues:

1. 28 Aug, 04:17
2. 28 Aug, 13:24
3. 28 Aug, 17:05
4. 28 Aug, 18:06. Attempt at discussion proved utterly futile and was met with complete stonewalling

• Several other slow edit-wars on other articles, mostly against Lunch for Two (talk · contribs)

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

• Has extensive history of prior ARBMAC sanctions, most recently a full-year ban from 2009 to 2010
• Recent warning by myself see above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The current conduct is a return to an old and very constant pattern of stubborn agenda editing; see block log. Jingiby's current opponent, Lunch for Two (talk · contribs), is not much better in terms of edit-warring and is certainly just as opinionatetd and tendentious, but appears to be slightly more sensible in discussion. He would also be in for a sanction, but it seems he hasn't had an ARBMAC warning yet. Unless, that is, he is in fact a returning sock; I have a suspicion he is Mactruth (talk · contribs), who is permanently banned from the topic area. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Note: Struck out the bit above about the sock suspicion; having interacted a bit more with Lunch now I can confidently say he behaves far more reasonably in discussion than Mactruth ever did. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:39, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Jingiby

Statement by Jingiby

My position is as follows: without to boast, I am one of the most informed editors on the Macedonian issue on English Misplaced Pages. With one too long, formal block, the accuracy of the most of the articles connected with the Macedonian question will deteriorate, due to the persistent nationalism implemented there by numerous socks from a blocked users, as well as by different IP-vandals. They never will be blocked really or banned formally unlike me. My last block for a year was without serious reason and done more spontaneous then reasonable.

The supercilious bureaucracy looks sometimes quaint and should be restricted as ineffective instrument. Jingby (talk) 08:12, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

As per EdJohnston's commen "I guess the 8 different admins who issued those blocks must all have been mistaken". No, of course, but the time is inside of us, and we are inside the time. It turns us and we turn it Jingby (talk) 09:30, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

By the way, as per Nipsonanomhmata's comment, only recently, in June 2011, the Arbitration Committee passed a motion which lifted the restriction that was placed on the administrator Future Perfect at Sunrise. The restriction had prohibited Future Perfect at Sunrise from using administrative tools in the Greek and Macedonian topics. Future Perfect at Sunrise was reminded to abide by the policies guiding administrative acts in areas where one is involved, and to apply particular care to avoid conflict in areas related to Greece and Macedonia. Jingby (talk) 10:51, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

To sum up: I must change my edit-behavior. I need to discuss more, to search longer consensus, to be more patient and careful. I must avoid my spontaneous reactions to revert or to edit the text, provoked by vandals, IP-s or socks, even if I believe I am right. More, even if I am really right.

OK! I promise. Jingby (talk) 04:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Jingiby

As the editor clearly does not get it, a one-year block is clearly justified, and I would be somewhat inclined to WP:CBAN the editor as having exhausted the community's patience. --Russavia 20:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I have no account but I would like to share my opinion here. I don't know where the user exhausted the community's parience, but if you see his contribs you will see that if he wasn't in this site, the most Balkan pages would have become blatant POVs and propaganda, and the activity of manipulative POV-pushing in some of these pages is still extremely high and in some of them no one reverts it except him. Soon POV-pushing there was in Bulgarians in Albania, Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia and Gorani for example, where some editors were removing mass of reliable sources and information, separetely placing POV manipulation, which free editors with disruptive character who only delete information should be blocked much more than a user who only broke the 3rr, in the case surely provoked by POV-pushing. These editors are surely trying to make him nationalistic edit-warrior when he broke the 3rr, but if you check his contribs you will see that the user has not disruptive character neither tendencous editing, one of the best examples for neutrality. I don't know what are the standarts for four reverts, but if he is blocked for a year some editors are going to have fun with some pages in the site, seriously. 213.226.17.10 (talk) 19:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Athenean

Lunch for Two reminds me very much of PMK1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who recently had his account deleted and even went around removing signatures because he felt his user name revealed too much personal information. The accounts are virtually identical in terms of interest (essentially single-purpose "Aegean Macedonian" publicity), level of English, and general behavior. It is no coincidence that Lunch for Two appeared soon after PMK1 disappeared. From the very beginning it was clear that Lunch for Two was not a new user by any stretch. Athenean (talk) 01:08, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Comment by Nipsonanomhmata

As Fut Perf noted, it had also occurred to me, that Lunch for Two has very much in common with Mactruth because they have frequented the same articles. I note that there is a conflict of interest since Fut Perf supports the same POV as Lunch for Two and they both oppose Jingiby's POV. Jingiby deserves nothing more than a mild 3RR block as a reminder not to exceed 3RR. I also note that Fut Perf is responsible for 5 of the previous 18 15 (as per Ed Johnston) blocks (that's one third of all the blocks). Why not let somebody else find a reason to block him? This looks like over-zealous persecution. Moreover, the title of the article with the edit war is in itself a POV title.  Nipsonanomhmata  00:48, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Jingiby

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• This user is a named party of the original WP:ARBMAC decision (2007), so he's been involved in ethnic wars for a long time. He has been blocked 15 times, for as long as one year. He's been placed under a lot of bans and revert limits, then he gets repeatedly sanctioned for breaking those. Due to the difficulties he finds in staying on the straight and narrow, I think a further block for one year is probably the best way to go. A further attempt at a regular topic ban is probably futile. EdJohnston (talk) 19:26, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

• I hope that Future Perfect can provide more details of any recent misbehavior by Jingiby. So far I perceive a recent 3RR violation at Slavic speakers of Greek Macedonia. Have there been other policy violations over the last 6-12 months? The 15 blocks certainly speak for themselves, but they are not recent. EdJohnston (talk) 02:56, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Jingiby (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

• What I can learn by scrolling a lot of edits is that Jingiby is at war with others in the ARBMAC area and he discusses very little. A 1RR/week restriction on Jingiby on Macedonian and Bulgarian topics may be the best solution. He may not be the only one needing a restriction, but how about a new AE request if anyone believes that others ought to be included. It seems to me that User talk:Wisco2000 is getting close to a block for edit warring at Saint Naum and elsewhere. On the bright side, Wisco2000 has opened a mediation case at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2011-09-01/ for his dispute with Jingiby and he should get some credit for that. Jingiby's own response above, referring to our 'supercilious bureaucracy', does not inspire any confidence that he intends to follow policy in the ARBMAC area. He does not show the slightest awareness that 15 blocks might be a problem. I guess the 8 different admins who issued those blocks must all have been mistaken. EdJohnston (talk) 03:10, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Cerejota

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Miradre

Request concerning Volunteer Marek

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Vlad fedorov (talk) 11:09, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Discretionary sanctions under WP:DIGWUREN, reinstatement of sanctions applied by the virtue of WP:EEML for Radeksz (who is Volunteer Marek currently)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

4. One diff with his intermediate 20 diffs dated 27th of July.

The edits and their result clearly demonstrate advancement of single-sided POV and absense of desire to reach consent over the content of the article. Without any attempts to read the linked sources, Volunteer Marek proceeds to total elimination of the whole sections from the article. Even my former colleague Hallibut recognized the sources although qualified them as dubious.

ADD: Oh, my dear. It appears that Volunteer Marek is a new nickname for already sanctioned editor per WP:EEML Vlad fedorov (talk) 15:00, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe that this kind of editing adheres to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. Please, stop this whitewashing of the articles. How many arbitrations we should held, until these hot guys would understand this simple idea?

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

DIGWUREN log !!! Already warned by Sandstein "not to continue nationalist edit wars by others and not to engage in a pattern of apparently nationalistically motivated name-changing".

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Re Heimstern Läufer: So, you openly admit that WP:EEML was impotent arbitration ab initio? Could you then relay on the puposes of sanctions laid? And what then was the purpose of all this show? So much words were spoken about good faith and the rest editing style, cooperation, probation term, bla-bla-bla? Oh, common... I look at Boris Stomakhin - the article for which I was one year banned. Now it contains everything I wanted to include then (and it is included by other people) and no one gives any **** about it. No one thanked me for the contribution. Oh no, I got a ban in return. Just to discover 3 years later - that everything I wrote was true. There was no BLP violation. Irony... The guys who owned WP consensus policy rule. And Mr. Heimstern Läufer says everything is fine. Welcome to USSR! Vlad fedorov (talk) 16:44, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Re Re Heimstern Läufer

"I don't know. I don't care. No idea what the heck you're talking about. I don't keep up with all these disputes. so I don't know what's going on with the content here" - What are you doing there in AE thread, then, administrator? Let me remind you then on your re-elections of your duties.Vlad fedorov (talk) 17:41, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Re Re Re Heimstern Läufer

Old edits? The guy is "owning" Arbcom and his WP:EEML decision. He was sanctioned for exactly the same thing he was doing before WP:EEML, the guy and his friends arranged for the parole, but he continues to do the same thing, which is clearly seen in the diffs given above. I ceased to edit at all, but he continues his POV anti-Russian/Belarusian pushing. Heimstern says he won't do nothing as admin, but he feels like he could comment on this. Circus... Vlad fedorov (talk) 17:57, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Re Re Re Re Heimstern Läufer

"Neutral Heimstern's response to my question bothers me: either he doesn't appear to know how to set aside personal time for himself when working on Misplaced Pages matters (which is not a failing unique to him) & can suggest he may suffer premature burnout; or he has little interest in directly improving the content of Misplaced Pages. I don't know enough about this user to say more than this, so I'm limiting myself to just offering this observation for further discussion. -- llywrch 20:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)" self-fulfilling prophecy. Vlad fedorov (talk) 18:10, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Re Re Re Re Re Heimstern Läufer

"Remind my of my duties" is more comprehensible English, Heimstern? And all you could write is just a comment on my notebook keyboard grammar? Vlad fedorov (talk) 18:16, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Maybe I have not read something on limitation period before filing this. The sole reason for this filing is Polonization article which is again owned by Polish nationalists just like it was before, and is completely whitewashed back to Polish POV. And EEML member returned this article to the version which was before. If POV removal of complete sections of sourced text is ok, by the guy who previously was fond of it and who was sanctioned for it, even despite limitation period lapsed - ok, maybe this report is stale for procedural reasons. (good reason for someone to remember what "merit" means). As to my block - what purpose would proposed block serve? I won't file again report on AE (anyway useless), I would read what I missed to read on these arbs. What would it prevent? I think, you just rush to punitive blocks to shut your eyes on what's still going on with article in EEML area. One more childish admin would test block button. Vlad fedorov (talk) 04:57, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

By the request of EdJohnston which is on my talk page. I could have contributed more to WP, in the areas which are of interest for me, but most of them are subject to topic ban. I could have added more material to Belarus related articles, since English WP includes almost zero information on modern history of Belarus, or includes historical views of other states, but not these of Belarus. Vlad fedorov (talk) 10:52, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek

Statement by Shrike(uninvolved)

Tim how its reasonable to indef block just for frivolous AE request? If there are really problem with that he should be banned from AE.--Shrike (talk) 14:03, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Volunteer Marek

Huh? Not only are those more than a month two months old, but there's nothing wrong with any of the edits provided. Hell, the last one isn't even mine.Volunteer Marek (talk) 11:16, 2 September 2011 (UTC) Add: Vlad subsequently changed the last diff .

Strange timing, this report, has. Vlad has not made any edits on Misplaced Pages since December 2010 and now all of sudden he pops out, after 9 months, with this.Volunteer Marek (talk) 11:21, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Note also that User:Vlad fedorov is currently topic banned from articles relating to former Soviet Republics. The Polonization article - and these edits in particular - deals with Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine; all former Soviet Republics.Volunteer Marek (talk) 11:31, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning USERNAME

Result concerning Volunteer Marek

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• Stale and probably even mouldy by this point, I'd say. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 16:15, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Re:Vlad federov's reply to me: No idea what the heck you're talking about. I don't keep up with all these disputes in the EE area (who could?), so I don't know what's going on with the content here. But I do know that AE is here to deal with currently existing behavioural problems that fall under arbitration remedies, not edits from two months ago. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 17:35, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
    • "Let me remind you then on your re-elections of your duties." I'm afraid your sentence is not comprehensible English, so I'm not entirely sure what I'm being reminded of. Perhaps you simply wish to remind my of my duties as an administrator? I'm sorry to say you won't get too far, because administrators have no duties. They, like virtually every other participant on Misplaced Pages, are entirely volunteers. And if you think I'm doing a bad job here, surely there'll be another admin who will disagree with me. But I don't think you're going to find one willing to sanction based on old edits like these. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 17:47, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
• Entirely stale request that borders on the frivolous. I invite Vlad federov to explain, in 500 words or less, (1) why this request is not a violation of his topic ban and (2) why he should not be sanctioned for filing a completely meritless request. T. Canens (talk) 14:23, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
• Agree with HL and TC. Complainant's responses to these comments just underlines the frivolous nature of the request. Support some sanction. Zero 02:28, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
• To clear out some valuable space on this noticeboard, I would support closing this with no action. Topic bans are useful if they address an actual behavior that is causing trouble. The actual problem (in this case) is a frivolous report. Short of telling him not to file reports at AE, I'm not sure of any sanction that would address the matter. If some nominal action is felt to be necessary, how about a one week block. Vlad Fedorov has done scarcely any editing since he was sanctioned in WP:ARBRB in May of 2010. So his edits don't really pose a problem at this time. His ban from editing articles about the Soviet Union and former Soviet Republics is still in place. EdJohnston (talk) 02:52, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm honestly thinking about an indef block, given his history. T. Canens (talk) 03:18, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
    • I wouldn't stand against it, though I wonder if it's a bit of an overreaction given his inactivity except for this admittedly frivolous request. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 13:27, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Carrots vs. Bananas, WP:DR and WP:NPOV

Glkanter

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Glkanter

User Glkanter is editing under various IP addresses in violation of arbcom ban.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Guy Macon (talk) 19:28, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Glkanter (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Also see:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/Special:Contributions/76.190.236.207
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/Special:Contributions/71.166.38.174
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/Special:Contributions/76.190.225.244

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Monty_Hall_problem#Glkanter_banned

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 23:40, 14 August 2011 Banned user Glkanter posts using IP Address 76.190.236.207.
2. 02:17, 15 August 2011 Reverts Rick Block without denying that he is Glkanter, hoping that Rick Block will violate 1RR restriction. 76.190.236.207 again.
3. 21:47, 20 August 2011 Again, using IP Address 71.166.38.174
4. 05:58, 22 August 2011 76.190.236.207 again.
5. 09:12, 3 September 2011 Again, using IP Address 76.190.225.244
6. 13:03, 4 September 2011 76.190.225.244 again.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on Date by Name of administrator who imposed warning 1 (talk · contribs)
2. Warned on Date by Name of administrator who imposed warning 2. If there is no warning 2, delete this entire line (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The content, writing style, and attack targets of of all of these IP edits closely match those of Glkanter, and comments implying that the poster is Glkanter are ignored as if we all know who it is.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• Notifications sent:

Discussion concerning Glkanter

Statement by Glkanter

Comments by others about the request concerning Glkanter

I think this should go to Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations first though AE admins may take additional action here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:44, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Done. Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Glkanter. --Guy Macon (talk) 10:48, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Added notices to talk pages of Glkanter and all three IP addresses using template socksuspectnotice. He really isn't sockpupetting though; he cannot post if he logs in, so he posts without logging in with no particular effort to hide who he is. This behavior is familiar from the arbcom case, where he consistantlysimply refused to accept any rules or limits on his behavior. Guy Macon (talk) 11:06, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

According to Misplaced Pages policy that still falls under the definition of a sockpuppet, even if he's not trying to hide who he is, as it falls under the "to avoid sanction" part of the definition. I'm guessing this is going to end with an indef for the original account but there's not much you'll be able to do about the IPs (except, once and if it is established to be him, revert on sight).Volunteer Marek (talk) 11:25, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

They are definitely all him - I had blocked one previously as an obvious sock. I've blocked them all and asked for technical advice at the SPI. He's currently banned for one year and blocked indefinitely - there is no restriction on just reverting/blocking. It's not even as if he's making useful contributions - he's just still ranting about the outcome of the RFAR. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:30, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Glkanter

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Volunteer Marek

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Volunteer Marek

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Skäpperöd (talk) 14:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions: "Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict (defined as articles which relate to Eastern Europe, broadly interpreted) if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Short version:

1. Severe POV-pushing and disruption of AfD process by restoring his tag team partner Molobo's revision which was AfD'ed for severe POV and OR issues, amidst another, currently ongoing AfD discussion.

Detailed version:

• Molobo (now MyMoloboAccount) created the article in 2007. It failed a subsequent AfD due to POV and OR issues, comments from uninvolved users (i.e. with no history whatsoever regarding the EEML people or targets) during that discussion:
  • AfD nom: "article is polemical rather than informative, and intended to be so"
  • Thomjakobsen: "non-neutral essay arguing for one extreme of that debate, and does so by synthesizing original research no basis in discussion of the theme in proper secondary sources"
  • Edison: "original research in the form of synthesis It is inherently POV and polemic."
  • Pavel Vozenilek: "Ideological rant based on amateurish history approach."
  • Jtrainor: "Delete and send to the gas chamber Misplaced Pages is not the place for rants."
  • AfD closed by KrakatoaKatie: "The result was delete as original research."
• In 2010, the article was re-created as a dab page. On 2 September 2011, PamD nominated the dab page for deletion, saying it was not a suitable dab page.
• User Warden then created a stub, PamD said thank you to Warden and withdrew the nomination . DGG restored, per request, the edit history of the deleted article .
• On 5 September Volunteer Marek entered the scene, and expanded the line "German collective guilt is the perceived or claimed collective guilt of Germany and the German people" to read "German collective guilt is the perceived, claimed, or existing collective guilt of Germany and the German people in relation to the initiation of World War II and the Holocaust." Thus, VM makes wikipedia state a collective guilt of the German people as a fact, which is ridiculous.
• Volunteer Marek then called the stub (which by then looked like this, excluding abovementioned insertion) "extremist right wing propaganda bullshit", which is a personal attack on the handful of contributors who just wrote the stub.
• Volunteer Marek then restored the article as written by Molobo, which as shown above had been deleted during the 2007 AfD as severe POV rant based on nothing but OR. Volunteer Marek's edit summary read "restore last neutral version", which speaks for itself.

Not only is it against all wikipedia principles to restore an ideological rant AfD'ed for POV and OR as "last neutral version." It is also alarming that the author of the restored version was no other than Molobo, with whom Volunteer Marek has a long history of tag teaming (see WP:EEML and previous EE cases, VM was active and sanctioned there under his former username Radeksz).

I think the incident detailed above is severe enough to require administrative action. I also think that it is a detriment to wikipedia's quality to allow this tiny tag team to push their POV ad nauseum, given the long history of arbcom cases, AEs etc devoted to them. I just came back from a long break and it seems that nothing has changed around here. Skäpperöd (talk) 14:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek

Statement by Volunteer Marek

Comments by others about the request concerning Volunteer Marek

Result concerning Volunteer Marek

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• Administrative backlog