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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by John Vandenberg (talk | contribs) at 16:50, 27 September 2011 (→Bobthefish2 advised: add pref). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 16:50, 27 September 2011 by John Vandenberg (talk | contribs) (→Bobthefish2 advised: add pref)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) Main case page (Talk) — Evidence (Talk) — Workshop (Talk) — Proposed decision (Talk)

Case clerk: TBD Drafting arbitrator: TBD

Misplaced Pages Arbitration
Open proceedings
Active sanctions
Arbitration Committee
Audit
Track related changes

After considering /Evidence and discussing proposals with other arbitrators, parties, and editors at /Workshop, arbitrators may make proposals which are ready for voting. Arbitrators will vote for or against each provision, or they may abstain. Only items which are supported by an absolute majority of the active, non-recused arbitrators will pass into the final decision. Conditional votes and abstentions will be denoted as such by the arbitrator, before or after their time-stamped signature. For example, an arbitrator can state that their support vote for one provision only applies if another provision fails to pass (these are denoted as "first" and "second choice" votes). Only arbitrators and clerks may edit this page, but non-arbitrators may comment on the talk page.

For this case there are active arbitrators. Expression error: Missing operand for +. support or oppose votes are a majority.

Expression error: Unexpected mod operator
Majority reference
Abstentions Support votes needed for majority

If observing editors notice any discrepancies between the arbitrators' tallies and the final decision or the #Implementation notes, you should post to the clerk talk page. Similarly, arbitrators may request clerk assistance via the same method, or via the clerks' mailing list.

Proposed motions

Arbitrators may place proposed motions affecting the case in this section for voting. Typical motions might be to close or dismiss a case without a full decision (a reason should normally be given), or to add an additional party (although this can also be done without a formal motion as long as the new party is on notice of the case). Suggestions by the parties or other non-arbitrators for motions or other requests should be placed on the /Workshop page for consideration and discussion.
Motions have the same majority for passage as the final decision.

Template

1) {text of proposed motion}

Support:
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Proposed temporary injunctions

A temporary injunction is a directive from the Arbitration Committee that parties to the case, or other editors notified of the injunction, do or refrain from doing something while the case is pending.

Four net "support" votes needed to pass (each "oppose" vote subtracts a "support")
24 hours from the first vote is normally the fastest an injunction will be imposed.

Template

1) {text of proposed orders}

Support:
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Proposed final decision

Proposed principles

Purpose of Misplaced Pages

1) The purpose of Misplaced Pages is to create a high-quality, free-content online encyclopedia. This is best achieved in an atmosphere of collegiality, camaraderie, and mutual respect among contributors. Use of the site for other purposes, such as advocacy or propaganda, the furtherance of outside conflicts, publishing or promoting original research, and political or ideological struggle, is prohibited.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. The Cavalry (Message me) 23:09, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. PhilKnight (talk) 23:35, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Bog standard. SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Where have I heard this one before? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8.  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Risker (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  12. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Neutral point of view and undue weight

2) All Misplaced Pages articles must be written from a neutral point of view, with all relevant points of view represented in reasonable proportion to their importance and relevance to the subject-matter of the article. Undue weight should not be given to aspects which are peripheral to the topic. Relying on synthesized claims, or other "original research", is also contrary to this principle.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:36, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7.  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Decorum

3) Misplaced Pages users are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system, is prohibited. Making unsupported accusations of such misconduct by other editors, particularly where this is done repeatedly or in a bad-faith attempt to gain an advantage in a content dispute, is also unacceptable.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:36, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7.  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:
Support the thrust of this; however, would prefer the word "unacceptable" to "prohibited". Risker (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
I see them as more-or-less synonyms here, but would have no objection to that change. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
I think "unacceptable" is more in line with practise, as lack of decorum does not result in instant bans as "prohibited" would imply. We work with shades of grey. However "Unseemly conduct, such as x y and z, is unacceptable" doesn't read well. John Vandenberg 01:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Consensus

4) Misplaced Pages relies on a consensus model. When there is a good-faith dispute, editors are expected to participate in the consensus-building process, in lieu of soapboxing, edit warring, or other inappropriate behavior. Abuse of the consensus model and process, such as misrepresenting consensus or poisoning the well, is disruptive. Specific forums, such as those for deletion and page move discussions, have been created to seek and where possible attain consensus on specific types of content disagreements.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:38, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. This could be used in so many of these such disputes. SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Minor copyedit (for parallel construction; my 11th-grade English teacher would be proud). Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7.  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Talk pages

5) The purpose of a talk page is to provide a location for editors to discuss changes to the associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject. Editors should aspire to use talk pages effectively and must not misuse them through practices such as excessive repetition, monopolization, irrelevancy, advocacy, misrepresentation of others' comments, or personal attacks.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:38, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Or in short, the talk page is not for establishing TRUTH, it's for improving the article. SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. (Perhaps "improvements" instead of "changes" in the first sentence, or "issues relating to", but that is a nit.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7.  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Role of the Arbitration Committee

6) It is not the role of the Arbitration Committee to settle good-faith content disputes among editors.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:39, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Key words being good-faith. SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7.  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Disruptive and tendentious editing

7) Contributors who engage in tendentious or disruptive editing – such as sustained and aggressive point-of-view pushing – may be subjected to editing restrictions on the articles in question or be banned from the topic or the site.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:39, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Minor copy-edit ("such as by engaging in sustained aggressive point-of-view editing" > "– such as sustained and aggressive point-of-view pushing –"). Duplicatory. Revert or tweak liberally!  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Edit wars are harmful

8) Edit-warring is harmful. When disagreements arise, users are expected to discuss their differences rationally rather than reverting ad infinitum. Revert rules should not be construed as an entitlement or inalienable right to revert, nor do they endorse reverts as an editing technique.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:40, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. There's a reason our discussion model is BRD (Be BOLD, and if you get REVERTED, DISCUSS until you can come to a consensus) and not BREA (Bold, revert, endless arguments) SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Tweak header ("Edit wars considered harmful" > "Edits wars are harmful").  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Disputes regarding article titles

9) Article titles are based on the name by which reliable English-language sources refer to the article's subject. In determining which of several alternative names is most frequently used, it is useful to observe the usage of major international organizations, major English-language media outlets, quality encyclopedias, geographic name servers, major scientific bodies and scientific journals. When there is no single obvious term that is obviously the most frequently used for the topic, as used by a significant majority of reliable English-language sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering recognisability, naturalness, precision, conciseness and consistency.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:40, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. again, this is not a new or uncommon issue in nationalist areas such as this. SirFozzie (talk) 09:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 16:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Of course, which of the list of relevant factors is most relevant will depend on the nature of the article whose title is in question. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7.  Roger Davies 06:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 23:53, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Findings of fact

Focus of the dispute

1) The dispute centers around the name or names to be used on English Misplaced Pages when referring to the Diaoyu/Senkaku/Pinnacle Islands, in order that Misplaced Pages content is neutral on this real-world territorial dispute. Specifically, the dispute focuses on what name to use as the title of the Senkaku Islands article and related articles.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:41, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Yes,  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Copyedited last sentence; any arbitrator may revert if desired. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:37, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Real-world catalyst

2) The topic of the correct, neutral designation has been disputed on Misplaced Pages since 2003; however, interest in the dispute was renewed and increased after the 2010 Senkaku boat collision incident in September 2010.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:42, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Yes,  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Minor copyedits; any arbitrator may revert if undesired. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:39, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Mediation unsuccessful

3) Since September 2010, the pages currently titled Senkaku Islands and Senkaku Islands dispute have frequently been protected in response to edit-warring, such as the edit war in February over of the inclusion of tag {{NPOV-title}} on these articles.(; ; ) The dispute was taken to the Mediation Committee (Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Senkaku Islands), but the mediation did not achieve a satisfactory resolution of the dispute.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:42, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. We've been at this a while, and after a long run "up the chain" of DR, it finally it got to us. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Up the long ladder... Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6.  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Minor copyedits to last sentence; any arbitrator may revert if undesired. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:40, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Tenmei's history

4) Tenmei (talk · contribs) was topic-banned from a particular topic for six months as a remedy to the Tang Dynasty arbitration case of 2009, and thereafter, following a review, was permitted to edit Misplaced Pages only with the guidance of six publicly identified mentors.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:46, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. I almost proposed a recidivism principle above, just because of the history here, that there is probably support for a harsher remedy. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Yep (with minor copy-edit: "6" > "six")  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Minor copyedits mostly to adjust the chronology (there was an initial case decision in Tang Dynasty, and later a review that resulted in an amendment strengthening the remedies); any arbitrator may revert if undesired. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  11. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Tenmei and disputes

5) Although Tenmei was counseled on this issue during the prior case, his manner and style of communications during disputes has not improved. Whether intentional or not, Tenmei's involvement in the current dispute has frustrated involved and uninvolved editors alike, amplifying and prolonging the dispute resolution process.(Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Tenmei (see views by HXL49 and Taemyr); Evidence section "Tenmei", provided by Qwyrxian; )

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:53, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Reluctantly. Tenmei has genuine difficulty communicating clearly and concisely in English. Although his abstract and often nebulous style confuses and frustrates people up, I am sure it is not intentional.  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Per Roger Davies. I think that Tenmei is clearly a good-faith, well-meaning editor; but all too often, I read his long posts and I honestly don't know what he's talking about. For an editor who has become involved in a series of disputes, this is a serious problem. ¶ Minor copyedits, including insertion of the introductory clause ("Although...") at the beginning; any arbitrator may revert if undesired. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:46, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Bobthefish2's history

6) Bobthefish2 (talk · contribs) registered an account in September 2010, and the user states that he or she was "new and was condescending".(User:Bobthefish2/ArbComEvidence) Since October 2010, Bobthefish2 has focused heavily on the Senkaku Islands dispute. Bobthefish2 has a limited number of contributions to other topics on Misplaced Pages.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:56, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Very close to being a SPA. (Not that there's anything wrong specifically with a SPA, but one must take extra care in such cases to make sure their behavior doesn't cross the line. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5.  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Full support, but I would prefer not to mention the "new and condescending" comment. Unless the circumstances are extreme, it might be counterproductive to discourage comments reflecting introspection and self-critical analysis by users who have become involved in a dispute, for fear they will be used against them later. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:49, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
    How does this differ from Cirt admitting their contributions occasionally had problems? I think it is important to acknowledge when parties do provide us with self-critical analysis. I don't mind if we are less specific in our final decision. I would like to replace this with "the user has indicated their behaviour has been sub-optimal and has vowed to improve", but I dont think the second half is written anywhere. John Vandenberg 01:11, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
    I see significant distinctions between the two situations; however, since no one else seems to be in agreement with my concern, I will drop the issue unless others are interested in discussing it further. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:11, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Bobthefish2

7) Bobthefish2 has engaged in a pattern of disruptive use of talk pages.(; ; ; ;Evidence section "Bobthefish2", provided by Qwyrxian)

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 23:59, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Yup,  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. The ethnic references to other editors contained in these edits are also troublesome. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:50, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

STSC's history

8) STSC (talk · contribs) became an active user in October 2010, and was focused heavily on the Senkaku Islands dispute until June 2011. STSC is now contributing to a broader range of topics; however, a large proportion of these topics are similar territorial disputes, including Misplaced Pages article-naming disputes.(Talk:Swallow Reef#Layang Layang vs Swallow_Reef; Talk:Spratly Islands#Categorization as District of Khanh Hoa Province)

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 00:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5.  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:51, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

STSC

9) STSC has made inappropriate sexualised comments about parties involved in this dispute.(; ; User_talk:STSC#Please_immediately_change_your_remarks; ; )

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 00:01, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. There was a line crossed here, several times over. SirFozzie (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 17:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  5.  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Mailer Diablo 18:20, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. The first comment might have been intended as a flippant or thoughtless, ill-judged attempt at humor; but it quickly became apparent that this sort of joking was unwelcome, and instead of apologizing and/or stopping, STSC continued the improper comments. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  8. Agree with John Vandenberg's comment below. Risker (talk) 00:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  9. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  10. Jclemens (talk) 04:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:
Arbcom usually ignores a lot of bad behaviour during cases, and doesn't use this as evidence. However, in this instance, the behaviour is punching 'below the belt'. John Vandenberg 22:46, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Apt metaphor, John.  Roger Davies 14:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Remedies

Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

Tenmei topic banned

Tenmei topic banned for one year

1A) Tenmei is topic banned from the subject of Senkaku Islands, widely construed, for one year. The topic ban includes talk pages, wikipedia space and userspace and shall run consecutively to any site ban.

Support:
  1. Second preference. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Weak second preference. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Second preference. PhilKnight (talk) 18:36, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Second choice. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. 2nd choice. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Equal preference. See comment on 1B. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:03, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:
I'll put this comment here, but it applies to all of the remedies. Could there be some rationale as to why each of the "options" for remedies for Tenmei in particular have been put forward? Why are some preferring one to another? Risker (talk) 01:48, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
I think this particular dispute wont benefit from Tenmei participating, ever. I believe Tenmei is a good-faith contributor, however they have wandered into another dispute despite the prior arbitration case, and their involvement was again unhelpful. People with poor English skills should limit their involvement in disputes to the level that their language skills are suited to. Most people understand this, however Tenmei doesnt appear to understand the problems he causes with his communication style. As a result, I think a one year ban is needed to underscore that their continued engagement in disputes wont be tolerated. Some members of the community would say that Tenmei has already exceeded the communities patience. Too much volunteer time is wasted when Tenmei participates in dispute resolution. Should Tenmei end up in mediation or arbitration again, I think an indef ban is needed. John Vandenberg 02:08, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Tenmei topic banned indefinitely

1B) Tenmei is indefinitely topic banned from the subject of Senkaku Islands, widely construed. The topic ban includes talk pages, wikipedia space and userspace.

Support:
  1. First choice. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Was going to throw in a limit of appeals, but considering some of the findings below, probably not necessary. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. PhilKnight (talk) 18:39, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. First choice. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. First. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Jclemens (talk) 04:18, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Equal preference. Although not embodied in the decision, I think it has become established that topic-banned users can request relaxation or termination of their topics bans after a reasonable time has elapsed, which in this instance would be a minimum of several months, and preferably one year in more. In addressing any such request, we typically take into account whether the user has been making productive contributions on other topics and has stopped the types of behavior that led to the topic-ban. (But of course all of this may be moot in this instance if we vote a site-ban as well.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:03, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Tenmei warned

2) Tenmei is warned to promptly disengage from any topic on English Misplaced Pages which is being disputed by other editors.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Weak support. I think the other remedies make the same point.SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Weak support; I think it can be concurrent. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Second choice, prefer 2A. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:05, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. Prefer 2A. PhilKnight (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Unnecessary, given the other remedies. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Abstain:
Comments:

Tenmei advised

2A) Tenmei is advised that his unusual style of communication has not been conducive to resolving this dispute. Accordingly, Tenmei is urged to develop a different style of communication, which is more similar to that used by experienced Misplaced Pages editors. Until this happens, Tenmei is advised not to engage in topics which are the subject of a dispute.

Support:
  1. PhilKnight (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. SirFozzie (talk) 00:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:05, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. As in 2. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Abstain:
Comments:

Tenmei banned

Tenmei banned for one year

3A) Tenmei is banned for one year.

Support:
  1. First preference. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Given the underlying problem is difficulty with communication, I think a site ban, as opposed to just a topic ban, is required. PhilKnight (talk) 00:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Considering the history of the user, yes. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Jclemens (talk) 04:18, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:
Have we scrutinized Tenmei's mainspace edits on non-controversial topics (yes, there are some)? I understand the rationale warranting this proposal, but I'm hesitant to vote for a full site-ban if a less severe sanction could preserve Tenmei's useful mainspace work while eliminating or mitigating the problematic aspects. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:09, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
I have, and I have found his contributions on non-controversial topics to be good. My reason for a one year ban is that the message was not headed the first time, despite having mentors assigned. The mentor process last time consumed an awful lot of arbitrator time in the way of motions/amendments/etc. John Vandenberg 16:48, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Tenmei banned indefinitely

3B) Tenmei is banned indefinitely.

Support:
  1. Second preference. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. equal preference. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Second preference. PhilKnight (talk) 18:27, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. I'm not convinced that Tenmei's conduct is sufficiently disruptive as to warrant bypassing the customary one-year ban as an initial sanction. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. As with Kirill, I don't think that such a sanction is reasonable. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Per my comment on 3A, and even assuming I am convinced that full ban (as opposed to a topic-ban) is warranted, per Kirill. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:09, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Abstain:
Comments:

Bobthefish2 advised

4) Bobthefish2 is advised to step away from this dispute and the parties involved in this dispute.

Support:
  1. first pref. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Second choice, prefer 4A. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:11, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. Prefer 4A SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Prefer 4A. PhilKnight (talk) 18:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Prefer 4A. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Abstain:
Comments:
I think I'd prefer a 1 year topic ban. PhilKnight (talk) 00:11, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Bobthefish2 topic banned

4A) Bobthefish2 is topic banned from the subject of Senkaku Islands, widely construed, for one year. The topic ban includes talk pages, wikipedia space and user space.

Support:
  1. preferred. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. second pref. John Vandenberg 09:53, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. PhilKnight (talk) 09:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Jclemens (talk) 04:18, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. First choice. With regret, but necessary. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:12, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

STSC warned

5) STSC is warned to avoid any sexualisation of discussions, especially during disputes.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Prefer to make it clear that if he continues to do so, he will face sanctions, but I guess this is good enough. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. On reflection, I'm ok with just a warning. PhilKnight (talk) 15:19, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. I, too, would support a topic ban if one was offered. Jclemens (talk) 04:19, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. I'm not sure that "sexualization" is the best word for what we are discussing here, but I haven't been able to come up with better language as yet. As for the suggestion of a topic-ban, I am not sure whether I'd support it if offered (I'd have to review the evidence closely once again), but I am sure that STSC will wind up quickly being topic-banned on AE under the discretionary sanctions in any event if he doesn't clean up his act. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:16, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:
Again, would prefer a topic ban. PhilKnight (talk) 00:12, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Parties reminded

6) The parties are reminded that attempts to use Misplaced Pages as a battleground may result in the summary imposition of additional sanctions, up to and including a ban from the project.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 00:13, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Although this should already be obvious to everyone involved. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Jclemens (talk) 04:20, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. My usual reservation about the "battleground" metaphor, as it may not be clear to those lucky editors who don't live on the arbitration pages; but the point still comes through. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:17, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Discretionary sanctions

7) The topic covered by the article currently located at Senkaku Islands, interpreted broadly, is placed under standard discretionary sanctions. Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 00:14, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Standard in disputed nationalist/national areas that are under heavy dispute. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Jclemens (talk) 04:20, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Appropriate notices should be posted on Talk:Senkaku Islands, Talk:Senkaku Islands dispute, and closely related pages. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:18, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Discretionary sanctions for naming of disputed geographical regions

8) An uninvolved administrator may, after a warning given a month prior, place any set of pages relating to a territorial dispute between sovereign nations under standard discretionary sanctions for six months if the editing community is unable to reach consensus on the proper names to be used to refer to the disputed region.

While a territorial dispute is subject to discretionary sanctions, any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in these topical areas, after an initial warning.

Support:
  1. There are many ongoing/simmering territorial disputes in this region and the world, and each of them is likely to become a Misplaced Pages dispute. They tend to flair up quickly due to some external, so this allows administrators to advise contributors that they been to have civil productive discussions or their topic will be placed under discretionary sanctions. John Vandenberg 22:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. This is to prevent us having to play whack a mole, we've seen this a lot before with Ireland, Eastern Europe, now this. A large percentage of our disputes are due to these real world conflicts and this gives admins (and conscientious editors) another tool in their arsenal to keep the peace. SirFozzie (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Although this allows any uninvolved admin to place a set of pages under discretionary sanctions, I think it would almost certainly be worthwhile to discuss the situation with other uninvolved admins prior to placing the sanctions. PhilKnight (talk) 22:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Per PhilKnight, I'd propose more than simply one uninvolved admin--say, an AN, ANI, or AE discussion determining that the area is indeed problematic. Still, these geographic naming disputes are ultimately different verses of the same song. Jclemens (talk) 04:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
    I dont think we should include ANI. AN or AE would be appropriate. Notifications to WikiProject International relations might help, and WikiProject International law looks relevant as well. John Vandenberg 09:58, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. This is merely an invitation to further conflict unless we intend to define "sovereign nations" ourselves; a significant portion of territorial disputes hinge on questions of disputed sovereignty. In any case, I'm uncomfortable with devolving the imposition of discretionary sanctions to administrators until we've completed our planned standardization of the existing sanctions. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
    This remedy should only cover territorial disputes between indisputable sovereign nations. We could say UN recognised nations, if that would help. There is no dispute that China and Japan and Taiwan and Australia are all sovereign nations. All The majority of the examples on {{Territorial disputes in East, South, and Southeast Asia}} are between UN recognised nations. There are very few of these disputes that doesn't involve two or more UN recognised territories. It wouldnt cover disputes involving micronations and unrecognized or largely unrecognized states (such as the dispute over East Jerusalem by Israel and Palestinian National Authority), as those have a different set of drivers. John Vandenberg 04:51, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
    There are disputes even in the cases you list; Taiwan is not recognized by the UN (nor by most other nations), for example. Kirill  10:59, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
    (Gah, I have stricken Taiwan as that was not correct. Thanks.) Like the problem we're describing, we could agree that we are both right. PRC and KMT/ROC hold the position that is only one China, and China is a UN member. Who governs China, and who represents China at UN, is a different matter. Regarding territorial disputes involving ROC/Taiwan, there are three types. 1) disputes between ROC and PRC, 2) disputes in name only that involve ROC and a sovereign entity where the dispute only exists because ROC doesn't acknowledge agreements and treaties that have been made by PRC, and 3) disputes involving 'China' (i.e. ROC and PRC) and another sovereign entity (i.e. not Taiwan). 1) is a peculating issue that will probably create an almighty disturbance on the wiki if it ever does flare up; 2) is a set of dormant issues that are unlikely to flare up; and 3) are the conflicts which are likely to flare up and this remedy aims to help with. The first two would not be covered by "territorial dispute between UN recognised sovereign nations", however the last one would come under "territorial dispute between UN recognised sovereign nations". John Vandenberg 14:48, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. Seems to be a bad remedy unless everything in this remedy is explicitly spelled out. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. Too broad; there are dozens of territorial disputes between sovereign nations all over the world. I don't think an editor of articles involving the Venezuela/Guyana border or Mayotte or the Ethiopia-Eritrea booundary dispute would understand why he or she is being warned or sanctions under the rubric of the Senkaku Islands case. I would, however, consider a narrower wording relating to disputed territorial claims, particularly claims relating to island groups, among the countries of East Asia; I think that after having dealt with the Liancourt Rocks case and now this one, we can be proactive enough to anticipate future disputes involving the Paracels and the Spratleys and so on. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:26, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Abstain:
Comments:

Enforcement

Enforcement by block

1) Should any user subject to a restriction or ban imposed in this case violate that restriction or ban, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year, with the ban or topic ban clock restarting at the end of the block. Appeals of blocks may be made to the imposing administrator, and thereafter to Arbitration Enforcement, or to the Arbitration Committee.

Support:
  1. John Vandenberg 22:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  2. PhilKnight (talk) 00:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
  3. SirFozzie (talk) 20:29, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  4. Kirill  01:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  5. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  6. Jclemens (talk) 04:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
  7. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:27, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose:
Abstain:
Comments:

Discussion by Arbitrators

General

Motion to close

Implementation notes

Clerks and Arbitrators should use this section to clarify their understanding of the final decision--at a minimum, a list of items that have passed. Additionally, a list of which remedies are conditional on others (for instance a ban that should only be implemented if a mentorship should fail), and so on. Arbitrators should not pass the motion until they are satisfied with the implementation notes.

Proposals which pass
{Passing principles}
{Passing findings}
{Passing remedies}
{Passing enforcement provisions}
Proposals which do not pass
{Failing principles}
{Failing findings}
{Failing remedies}
{Failing enforcement provisions}

Vote

Important: Please ask the case clerk to author the implementation notes before initiating a motion to close, so that the final decision is clear.

Four net "support" votes needed to close case (each "oppose" vote subtracts a "support"). 24 hours from the first motion is normally the fastest a case will close. The Clerks will close the case either immediately, or 24 hours after the fourth net support vote has been cast, depending on whether the arbitrators have voted unanimously on the entirety of the case's proposed decision or not.

Support
Oppose
Comments