Talk:Paraguayan War - Misplaced Pages

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: all moved. I also moved Women in the Paraguayan War (non-admin closure). Jenks24 (talk) 17:50, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

– Straight to the point: the name "Paraguayan War" (16,100 results ) is far more used in English written sources than "War of the Triple Alliance" (6,080 results ). Lecen (talk) 15:49, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Support as nominator. --Lecen (talk) 16:02, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
Support. ~16,000 vs. 6,000 hits on Google Books; 1,700 vs. 1,000 on Google Scholar. Neutrality 20:26, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Oppose, I've never heard this term before, despite studying the history of the period. Nyttend (talk) 22:48, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

If you never heard then you certainly never studied the history of the period. Countless are the books with the name itself in their titles (, , , , etc...). --Lecen (talk) 23:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Support. Seems to be a simple case of choosing the more common name of two reasonable alternatives. Good Ol’factory 23:43, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Support, mainly on account of the ambiguity of Triple Alliance. All of these various Triple Alliances were engaged in a war with someone! Andrewa (talk) 14:53, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Support.--Cúchullain /c 15:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

War of the Triple Alliance v Paraguayan War

I'm surprised the title has been changed to fit a mainly Brazilian POV name. In any case, the google hits I get for "Paraguayan War" are 71,500, whereas the "War of the Triple Alliance" receives almost 4x the amount of hits 274,000. Based on this evidence, the page should be returned to its former NPOV and most common English title of "War of the Triple Alliance". Best regards.--MarshalN20 | 23:38, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

I quick google search show 1.500.000 results for "War of the triple Alliance", while 1.200.000 for Paraguayan War. Paraguay also had a war against Bolivia (The Chaco War). How is that war less "paraguayan" than the previous war. That name was and is mainly used by Brazil, translations of their material retain the naming, everywhere else is either "The War of the Triple Alliance" or "The War against the Triple Alliance". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.23.74.167 (talk) 09:52, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

The following excerpt should be removed: "This industrial and military growth required some contact with the international market, but Paraguay is and was a landlocked country. Its ports were river ports, and Paraguayan and other ships had to travel down the Río Paraguay and the Río Paraná to reach the estuary of the Río de la Plata (shared by Argentina and Uruguay) and the Atlantic Ocean. President Solano López conceived of a project to obtain ports on the Atlantic Ocean: he probably intended to create a "Greater Paraguay" by capturing a slice of Brazilian territory that would link Paraguay to the Atlantic coast."

The reference "Brandon Valeriano, "A Classification of Interstate War: Typologies and Rivalry." Article based on talk given March 17–20, 2004 to the International Studies Association in Montreal. File available at , accessed December 30, 2005." is broken.

A quick google search return this: http://tigger.uic.edu/~bvaler/ClassificationWar%20SPSA.doc

Where this paragraph reads: " Likewise, the Lopez War involved intervention in a civil war by the different parties, but at the same time Langer (1972: 848) recognizes that Francisco Solano Lopez’s father and previous President of Paraguay “has asserted Paraguayan territorial claims against Argentina and Brazil…” and that his son “desired territory and perhaps envisaged a Greater Paraguay.” Langer (1972: 848) concludes that,“The ambitions of Lopez, Brazilian intervention in Uruguay”… and unsettled territorial claims …brought about the war.” "

The author bibliography says : Langer, William L. 1980. An Encyclopedia of World History, 5th ed. Boston: Houghton Mifflin.

The author uses three separate statements by Langer to draw a conclusion. The second statement is both an assertion "he wanted territory" and speculation "perhaps envisaged a Greater Paraguay" by Langer, the third asserts that Lopez ambitions along with Brazilian intervention started the whole mess. Lopez "ambitions" now including un-proven speculation.

Furthermore the Sixth Edition of" Langer, William L. An Encyclopedia of World History, BOSTON: HOUGHTON MIFFLIN COMPANY, 2001 NEW YORK: BARTLEBY.COM, 2002 has no mention of this. But it says: "López relaxed Dr. Francia's isolationism, hiring foreign technicians, engineers, and artisans to build up his military. But the neighboring countries still refused to recognize Paraguay's independence. Rosas, the Argentine dictator, closed the Paraná River to vessels bound to Asunción. In 1849, tensions intensified, and López prepared for war. Brazil and Uruguay, both in conflict with Rosas, recognized Paraguay. After Rosas's fall, the Argentine Confederation recognized Paraguay's independence and its right to free navigation (1852)."

There were serious concerns about armed conflict but nothing on a "Greater Paraguay" master plan. The whole concept is ridiculuos, there simply was no manpower for ocupation, few roads and most transport was fluvial. When Lopez attacked the brazilians it was at the north of the country not at the east. There was no way to occupy and resupply troops in a such circunnstances. Also there would be no need to pass through argentinian territory if Lopez wanted to conquer the zones on the east.

There is simply no reliable reference to this "Greater Paraguay" thingy. And there is no reasonable way to theorize on such a plan. Lopez was no good militarily but wasn't an complete idiot either.

I could not find a 5th edition, so I can't say the quotations from book are wrong. The 6th edition either remove them or they were never there. Also the author presented this in a paper with little more evidence and in a non neutral poit of view, trying to promote his paper.

I'll wait some weeks and then I'll remove the paragraph and refence to the "Greater Paraguay" issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.23.74.167 (talk) 11:13, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

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