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    Jiujitsuguy

    Clearly no admin consensus to do anything. T. Canens (talk) 00:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning Jiujitsuguy

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Nableezy 00:17, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Jiujitsuguy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 14 November 2011 Removal of consensus statement on illegality of Israeli settlement
    2. 13 November 2011 gross misrepresentation of cited source
    3. 13 November 2011 misrepresentation of cited source
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Notified of the case
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Similar to an earlier case where an editor removed from articles the consensus sentence on the legal status of Israeli settlements, which Jiujitsuguy was involved in and is aware of the consequences, Jiujitsuguy has removed from an article on an Israeli settlement the consensus sentence. Jiujitsuguy was involved in both the discussion that resulted in that consensus and in the AE request linked above. Since coming of his topic ban, JJG has continued with the same conduct that saw him banned, relentlessly pushing an extreme minority POV, such as claiming the Golan is in Israel (see for example here or here where he adds maps showing the Golan as being within Israel's borders). This latest episode of removing the consensus statement is the last straw as far as I am concerned. The user should have been banned for any number of actions, this just being the latest one. In both the edit summary of the edit reverted by JJG (here) and the talk page section opened about the issue (here) the discussion WP:Legality of Israeli settlements is explicitly referenced. This is simply bad-faith editing against consensus and should be dealt with accordingly.

    Besides the issue with the removal of the sentence on the illegality of the settlement, there is an additional problem with the edit. In the edit, Jiujitsuguy changed it is the largest settlement in the Golan Heights to it is the largest town in the Golan Heights. The source for the sentence says Katzrin, the largest among the Golan settlements with a population of 7000. Now one might quibble over whether Katzrin should primarily be called a settlement or a town or whatever, but Jiujitsuguy here ignores the source to further a political agenda and while doing so introduces a factual error into an encyclopedia article. According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, Katzrin (listed as Qazrin in English here, the Hebrew spelling קצרין verifies it is the same city) had, at the end of 2005, a population of 6500. Majdal Shams had a population of 9500. Katzrin is considerably smaller than the largest town in the Golan, it is specifically the largest settlement, yet this was ignored due to the political leanings of a Misplaced Pages editor. This manipulation of language to suit a political purpose while ignoring the sources causes damage to the encyclopedia. Jiujitsuguy continues to disregard, and indeed misrepresent, sources when they do not conform to his political views. nableezy - 05:52, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

    Jiujistuguy's response only causes greater concern. He says I do not for one second regret that part of my edit with that part being a reference to the modification of the sentence on Katzrin being the largest settlement. He now brings as justification for that edit a "source" that was not mentioned in the article or the talk page and one that is clearly inaccurate as even official data from the Israeli government shows (also, I found a more recent census, which gives Katzrin's population as 6500 and Majdal Shams as 9600). He still feels justified in introducing factual errors so long as they reflect his personal political opinions. The misrepresentation of sources to push a political POV was the major cause of his last topic ban. To remind anybody who has forgotten, in that episode Jiujitsuguy modified Israel also expelled Arabs from the DMZ and demolished their homes to Israel also expelled Arab squatters and trespassers from the DMZ and demolished their homes. This most recent episode, with the stubborn refusal to acknowledge the wrong, demonstrates that he has yet to understand the issue of misrepresentation of sources and that he continues to do so for purely political purposes. nableezy - 17:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

    Jiujitsuguy still, despite repeated explanations from both myself and RolandR, does not understand the issue. That doesnt give me much hope that this can be rectified with anything other than a ban. This isnt an issue of calling Katztrin a settlement or a village, a colony or a city. That he can only see this issue through that lens and persists in arguing a completely irrelevant point is itself evidence of the tendentious nature of his edits. He still has not understood the basic point that Katzrin is not the largest town in the Golan, and by making the article say that, based purely on his political positions, he introduced a factual error into the article. And he apparently feels no regret for that. I dont think much more evidence is needed that Jiujitsuguy's editing goals and Misplaced Pages's mission are simply incompatible. His goal here is to align articles with a political viewpoint without any regard for either the facts or the sources. That cannot be tolerated, especially in an area as problematic as the ARBPIA topic area. nableezy - 19:30, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
    JJG, do you really not see a problem with calling that a scholarly source, or with the fact that it is plainly wrong as the census data makes clear? And do you still not see the problem that in your rush to push a POV based on your personal political feelings you disregarded the source and introduced a factual error? Or does everything fall under "content dispute"? It seems you have yet to learn the lesson of the last topic ban, which was due to exactly this type of disregard for sources in order to push a POV. nableezy - 21:37, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

    @WGFinley, the issue is the misrepresentation of sources to further a political agenda. JJG was banned for exactly this behavior, and he repeats it, almost to a t, here again. In the past instance, JJG misrepresented an offline source, changing Arabs to Arab squatters and trespassers when the source makes pretty much the opposite point. Here, he changes what settlement to village when the offline source, again, makes the opposite statement, and in doing so he introduced a blatant factual error into an encyclopedia article. He defends this action. I can think of no action more serious to the integrity of the encyclopedia than willfully and repeatedly misrepresenting sources to further a political agenda. Let me know if you still dont see what the issue is. nableezy - 00:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

    Um, no, not exactly. In fact, not even a little bit. Jiujitsuguy self-reverted after being brought here due to his having removed the consensus statement on the illegality of the settlement from the lead. He did not then, nor has since, acknowledged any error in misrepresenting the cited source and introducing a factual error into an encyclopedia article due to a tendentious attempt to push into the article a political viewpoint, an extreme minority one at that. nableezy - 02:21, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
    WGFinley, that last comment of yours demonstrates that you have no business on this page. This isnt about Nableezy vs Jiujitsuguy, and the thread above has almost nothing to do with JJG. I repeat, please ensure that you have carefully considered the evidence before threatening topic bans and interaction bans. Your comments demonstrate a lack of understanding. nableezy - 12:20, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
    There is no basis, whatesoever, for any sort of interaction ban. JJG made an edit that both removed consensus material and, in a blatantly political POV push, willfully introduced a factual error into an encyclopedia article. One admins imagination is not a basis for any type of ban. nableezy - 12:08, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

    I have added an additional diff of Jiujitsuguy willfully misrepresenting a source to push a particular POV. In this edit, JJG adds a source that says Mt Hermon, famous as Israel’s highest mountain as justification for claiming that Mt Hermon is in Israel. He also added in the reference the quote famous as Israel's highest mountain. However, the sentence actually reads, in full, The summit of Mt. Hermon—famous as Israel's highest mountain, at 9,230 feet above sea level—is actually in Syrian territory. Yet another example of JJG distorting a source to push a political POV, and this remains in the article today. JJG has in the past beeen topic-banned for reasons such as misrepresentation of sources to push a political POV, and fresh off his topic ban he is right back at it. nableezy - 17:26, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

    And I just added a third diff. In this diff JJG adds this source to claim the the Mt. Hermon's summit straddles the borders of Lebanon, Syria and Israel. What the source actually says is:

    On one side of the mountain is Israel, and on the other side are Syria and Lebanon. Israel took part of the southern slope, the Golan Heights, during the Six Day War, in 1967. Syria recaptured it on Oct. 6, 1973, the first day of the Yom Kippur War. Israel took it back two weeks later and has held it since.

    Mount Hermon reaches 9232 feet, but its peak is actually located on the border between Lebanon and Syria.

    That is, the cited source backs up exactly what the article had said, that the summit straddles the border of Lebanon and Syria. It does not support the edit made that Mt Hermon straddles an Israeli border. This is yet another example of JJG manipulating a source to degrade the quality of encyclopedia articles by introducing factually incorrect material with the sole purpose of advancing a POV. Like the 2nd diff, this, after more than a week, remains in the article. nableezy - 18:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

    Can an admin comment on the added diffs? In them, Jiujitsuguy repeats the exact behavior that saw him sanctioned last year, namely purposely misrepresenting sources to push a POV. If he can continue to get away with this I would like to know. Of all the things that count, purposely misrepresenting sources has to be more important than reverting too much. He purposely degraded the quality of an article by misleading readers into assuming the sources support the fringe POV that he has focused on pushing into a range of articles. If this is allowed to stand I think you all have to seriously reconsider if this is a project to create an encyclopedia. Because if it is, you cannot allow people to do such blatantly underhanded and deceitful things as purposely distorting sources to push a fringe POV into articles as though they were fact. Honestly, I dont see how anything short of an indef ban could be a proper response to such tactics. nableezy - 14:59, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

    JJG's dishonesty shows itself here as well as in article space. He claims that I fail to note that the source was referring to the mountain’s summit and he fails to give you the entire sentence which says, “The summit of Mount Hermon… is actually in Syrian territory. My quote above of the source was complete, including the part about the summit. However, JJG's edits to the page changed the article to claim that that Mount Hermon's summit straddles the border between Lebanon, Israel and Syria, despite the sources that he himself brought, unreliable though they are, that explicitly say the exact opposite. This is simply dishonest editing, distorting sources to push an extreme fringe POV as fact. His dishonest edits, edits that disregard even the most basic of requirements for editing here, remain in the article. How any admin can accept such blatant dishonesty is not something I understand. How this is being completely ignored is, likewise, something I do not understand. Jiujitsuguy continues to distort sources, the same offense that brought him his last ban. He has not yet learned the required lesson. Is anybody going to do anything about that? Or will WGFinley's imagination that this is all due to some player vs player nonsense derail what should be an open and shut case? nableezy - 14:05, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
    The misrepresentation of sources at Mount Hermon remains, with Jiujitsuguy's edit that changed Mount Hermon's summit straddles the border between Lebanon and Syria to Mount Hermon's summit straddles the border between Lebanon, Israel and Syria with the sources he added saying Mount Hermon reaches 9232 feet, but its peak is actually located on the border between Lebanon and Syria. and The summit of Mt. Hermon—famous as Israel's highest mountain, at 9,230 feet above sea level—is actually in Syrian territory. nableezy - 06:30, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
    Is anybody, anybody at all, going to deal with the repeated, constant misrepresentation of sources? Or is Jiujitsuguy entitled to continually falsify sources to push a fringe POV as fact? nableezy - 16:44, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

    I dont think an argument can be made that either this or this was made in good faith. In the first one he changed Mount Hermon's summit straddles the border between Lebanon and Syria to Mount Hermon's summit straddles the border between Lebanon, Israel and Syria while the source says Mount Hermon reaches 9232 feet, but its peak is actually located on the border between Lebanon and Syria. The source says the exact opposite of what he put in the article. In the second one he takes a quote and manipulates it into giving a different meaning. He does this again below when he claims that Fodor's says Mt Hermon is famous as being Israel’s highest mountain. That is simply not true, the only place the words famous as appears in that book is where it says The summit of Mt. Hermon—famous as Israel's highest mountain, at 9,230 feet above sea level—is actually in Syrian territory. Here he adds the word is and continues to misrepresent the source. I cant believe such deliberate misuse of a source, to the point of sniping out the parts of the sentence that directly dispute the claim he is attributing to it, can be called a good faith action. It is very clearly a gross misrepresentation of the source, forgetting the low quality of it. nableezy - 14:32, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

    WGFinley, I don't see what he did on Mount Hermon other than to point out there's a ski resort there and added a travel guide as source for information on that, really????? One more time; JJG used a source that says Mount Hermon reaches 9232 feet, but its peak is actually located on the border between Lebanon and Syria. and made the article say that Mount Hermon's summit straddles the border between Lebanon, Israel and Syria. He also used a source that says The summit of Mt. Hermon—famous as Israel's highest mountain, at 9,230 feet above sea level—is actually in Syrian territory. for the same claim. Do you really not see the problem here? He consistently distorts sources, to the point of outright falsification. I have written this several times, explain how you do not see the issue. He did not even write anything about the ski resort in any of the cited diffs, where on Earth did that come from? Have you even looked at the diffs? nableezy - 14:56, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
    Surprise, surprise. Enigmaman, the issue is not whether a source is good enough. The issue remains about the deliberate distortion of sources to push a fringe POV in to supposed encyclopedia articles. Jiujitsuguy took a source that says the summit of Mount Hermon straddles the border of Syria and Lebanon and changed the article to instead of saying exactly that to instead say that the summit of Mount Hermon straddles the borders of Lebanon, Israel and Syria. That is a deliberate distortion of the source. Are you seriously going to pretend that this is acceptable? If a supposed "uninvolved admin" is going to play the role of Jiujitsuguy's advocate, could he at least respond to the actual issue. Despite my repeated requests, WGFinley has failed to. And now you completely disregard the issue. Can somebody please tell me if it is acceptable for a user with an established history of falsifying sources to push a POV, as evidenced by his last topic ban, to continue falsifying sources to continue to push that same POV? Forget that the sources are garbage, just look at that the fact that despite his using garbage sources he still needed to fabricate their contents to push that fringe POV into an article. nableezy - 01:57, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

    Despite several efforts to get WGFinley to explain his rather bizarre comment that the only thing that JJG did at Mount Hermon was to point out there's a ski resort there and added a travel guide as source for information on that, he has refused to do so. WGFinley, have you actually examined the diffs here? In which one did he point out there's a ski resort? Did you not see that he used a source that said that the summit is on the border of Syria and Lebanon to change the article to claim that the summit is actually on the border of Lebanon, Israel and Syria? If you misread the diff fine, just say so. No shame in that. But you seem willing to disregard the issue in an attempt to remove any sanctions against Jiujitsuguy. This editor was once banned for distorting sources, he continues to do so. Below a thread was open about an editor inventing a quote from a source. This isnt much better. So, can you please explain why you made that comment and what diff shows JJG point out there's a ski resort there? nableezy - 07:13, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

    People; Jiujitsuguy lied about a source. I dont understand the hesitancy here. He claimed that the sources support that the summit of Mount Hermon lies on the border Israel, Lebanon and Syria. The sources that he brought, despite their low quality, say the exact opposite. Jiujitsuguy consistently distorts sources, so much so that I think it is fair to question the validity of all of his edits. An editor so willing to twist the sources to push a fringe POV should not be allowed anywhere near an encyclopedia. That this is allowed to continue is honestly astonishing. nableezy - 16:43, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

    WGFinley, perhaps my tone has been overly harsh, but in no way are the actions here so trivial that they pale in comparison to my tone. My tone is due to the fact that lying about a source to push a POV by an editor previously sanctioned for distorting an off-line source to push a POV is, or was, being completely ignored. I honestly cannot think of much worse sins here than distorting a source, and in doing so repeatedly introducing factual errors into articles. Forgive me for saying this, but it seems that despite repeated efforts to explain the issue you are ignoring that issue. There are many things that get me wound up, but being ignored tops the list. I have asked you several questions. You have not answered any of them. So, forgive my tone, but please answer my questions. If you do that you will find my tone much more pleasant. nableezy - 07:14, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified

    Discussion concerning Jiujitsuguy

    Statement by Jiujitsuguy

    Was unaware that this so-called consensus statement applied to the Golan Heights. I was under the impression that it only applied to the West Bank since the AE against Shuki involved a West Bank settlement and not the Golan Heights. I will self-revert but seek clarification if this is indeed the case.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 00:24, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

    self reverted--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 00:26, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
    I immediately self reverted within seconds once I was provided with the link above. Look, if you’re looking to ban me just let me know so I won't waste any more time with this. I self-reverted almost immediately once I was provided with the link. Forgive me if I'm not completely up to speed with every nuance of IPCOLLAB. In addition I haven't edited in I-P for over eight months. And again, the minute I was provided with the link and read it, I self reverted. What more do you want for Christ sake?!--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 22:21, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
    In response to Nableezy’s comments concerning my sourced edits at Mount Hermon, I stand by those edits and sources one-thousand percent. I triple sourced those edits and provided hyperlinks to the source so that any reader could verify what the source says. I want every reader to check and double check the source so that the reader can be better informed. If I had anything to hide, do you think I would provide the hyperlink? It is nableezy himself who is trying to pull a slick one by twisting the source in deliberate misleading fashion.

    This source from Fodor’s states that “Mt Hermon is famous as being Israel’s highest mountain.” I take that at face value. Now Nab rather slyly and underhandedly hooks in the part of the source that says “…is actually in Syrian territory.” What he fails to note is that the source was referring to the mountain’s summit and he fails to give you the entire sentence which says, “The summit of Mount Hermon… is actually in Syrian territory.” But the source clearly states that the mountains slopes are in Israel.

    This source from Popular Mechanics states “Mount Hermon straddles one of the world's most infamously contested borders. On one side of the mountain is Israel, and on the other side are Syria and Lebanon.” Again, I take that at face value and plain meaning. The source goes on to say that the mountain’s peak is in Syria. But nableezy would have you believe that the source says that the entire mount is located in Syria, which is entirely false.

    And the third source which states that Mount Hermon is, “located at the intersection of the Israeli, Syrian and Lebanese borders, Mt. Hermon's southern slopes are home to Israel's only ski resort.” Again, plain meaning and face value. Folks, this isn’t rocket science. It’s plain meaning. No twists, no turns and no pitfalls. The sources are entirely consistent with the edit and I stand by them one-thousand percent. I strenuously object to nableezy's insinuations, mis-characterizations and distortions.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 23:43, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

    Tim. In addition to Fodor's, I cited two other sources including one from Popular Mechanics to support my edit at Mount Hermon. I note that I’m required to triple source my edits whereas Nableezy is required to provide none. If Nableezy has a problem with the sources used, the appropriate venue or forum is the Discussion Page or RSN. If you have a problem with any one of the three sources that I used, I welcome your input at the Discussion Page as well.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
    • NW, that is completely unfair! I utilized three sources to support a position that part of a Mount Hermon lies in Israel. If one thinks that all three sources are "suboptimal" the proper forum to address those concerns is at the Discussion page or RSN. I also note that Nableezy hasn’t provided a single source to support his position. It is no secret that Nableezy maintains a visceral hatred of me. By imposing such a one-sided sanction, you are inserting yourself directly into a content dispute and are in effect taking one side over another. This is like an episode right out of Orwell's 1984. I’m called every name in the book by some quarters while Nableezy, one of the most rabidly anti-Israel, tendentious editors remains untouchable. I assert that when I’m wrong I take responsibility and self-revert (as I did at Katzrin) But I stand by my edits at Mount Hermon 1000 percent. I make no apologies for triple sourced edits there.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 16:24, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
    So you stand by falsifying a source by claiming Mount Hermon is in "Israel"? This is the quote you used in the exact same manner, the strike through being what you omitted, "Mt Hermon, famous as Israel’s highest mountain -- is actually in Syrian territory". But of course you know that, though you have the advantage of playing off of one admins refusal to even look at the matter, very clever. By the way, with the whole Nableezy "anti-Israel" nonsense, I think we have all had about as much as we can swallow of your recycled, nonsensical personal attacks. -asad (talk) 16:52, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
    I have not looked at the totality of Nableezy's edits, though I have seen some instances where he does get tendentious in his edits, but that is irrelevant here because it isn't even remotely difficult for me to perceive that you are making disruptive edits in this case in the pursuit of an agenda. You used travel guide information about a ski resort, distorted said information, and then inserted that distortion into an article about a mountain at the eastern edge of the Golan Heights to push a false claim about the Golan Heights in general. This is gaming plain and simple. Not even the Israeli government claims the Golan Heights are anything but Syrian territory under Israeli control. Three terrible sources that can be misconstrued as expressing a position do not override countless authoritative sources clearly expressing the opposite position. Given your actions on the Katzrin article it is not hard to see these are blatantly tendentious edits that show no regard for Misplaced Pages's rules about reliable sources and verifiability.
    One revealing part is what I noted in my comment below. You removed reliably-sourced material about the 1981 law being declared null and void as well as the consensus statement and never provided any explanation in an edit summary or on the talk page about why you did so. You made a comment in the edit summary to "see talk" but the only comment you made was about whether Katzrin should be called a town or a settlement. Did you really think that was the only contentious change you made?--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:09, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning Jiujitsuguy

    Comment by Epeefleche

    Firstly, looking at the first noted diff in complainant's "additional comments" section, it appears that the complained-about edit was supported by a ref to an RS. And that this was noted in the edit summary as well. Secondly, what is referred to by complainant as "the agreed upon consensus statement of illegality" seems to be a violation of wp:SYNTH, in that the subject of the article is not mentioned at all in the source given. While it may be appropriate language for an article on settlements in general, it does smack of spamming for an editor to insert the sentence in the instant article where the ref fails to mention the place in question.--Epeefleche (talk) 20:31, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

    As to the second point, if there was (as is indicated) an earlier consensus (to the effect that including such a statement in articles is not synth, even where the ref does not mention the subject of the article),then I agree that consensus should be followed. Perhaps that discussion can be referred to with a diff, rather than a bald reference? It would be interesting to understand why that is not synth, in the eyes of the consensus. And also to explore what similar statements could be created (with that as a basis) and inserted into all "relevant" articles (even if the ref fails to specifically mention the specific subject of the article). I expect it could be a template for all sorts of dozens-of-insertions entries. For example, as to entities that are viewed as engaging in illegal terrorist activities.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:12, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
    What up, Epeefleche? Some (close enough to 50%) were not happy at all with the final consensus. I (the originator of the discussion) was on the fence. The line is SYNTH. This was clearly understood by editors involved. My reasoning for being OK with it being SYNTH is that it was concise and the only way to do it was by WP:Ignore All Rules. How it has played out has been contrary to IAR, though. Ignore All Rules is about the betterment of the project. The rollout of the line has been contrary to the project's goals. It is bad enough that editors have decided to use a boiler plate when using a source directly related to the subject would obviously be preferred. But now we have several incidents of bickering over it. I started the conversation to stop the disruption (edit warring and sneaky editing). Events since have been just as disruptive. This discussion might be better at IPCOLL. I just wanted to clarify since it is so related. Cptnono (talk) 03:27, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
    Can you provide a link to the discussion where the decision was made? That would be helpful. It may well be worth revisiting the issue. And/or extending this exception to the SYNTH policy to other matters, such as "x is considered a terrorist organization by z", whenever such organizations are mentioned.--Epeefleche (talk) 10:42, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
    I am just going to chime in here to note that statement is not WP:SYNTH. I have found in several cases that people represent synthesis as being one thing when it is actually another. Obvious inferences from a source related to the subject material are perfectly legitimate under WP:V. As it concerns this case, the source provided for that statement about Israeli settlements clearly says that Israeli settlements in the Golan Heights are considered to be in violation of the Geneva Conventions. That Katzrin is one of those Israeli settlements means that source is in fact about Katzrin, even if it is never mentioned by name. A source does not need to spell out everything for us to use it to back up a statement. If it is plain to everyone competent enough to understand the words being used that a source is referring to x, they never actually have to say x for us to require another source in order to state x is being referred to in that source. Generally, it is safe to presume that the source considers Katzrin as being an illegal settlement by virtue of the fact that the source clearly states that it considers all Israeli settlements in the Golan Heights to be illegal. The only way you could argue otherwise is if you argued that the source does not consider Katzrin to be an Israeli settlement, does not consider it to be in the Golan Heights, or does not consider either of these things to be the case.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 08:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
    Comment by Nishidani

    The Mt Hermon in Israel edit can be contrasted with what occurred at Alon Shvut recently. User:MichaelNetzer found a source for the Kermes Oak there which ran Without a doubt, the most famous tree in Israel is the Kermes oak in Gush Etzion. Well both Alon Shvut and Gush Etzion happen not to be in Israel, but the West Bank. Notified, Michael commendably understood the objection, though he did think the ambiguity in the syntax allowed for it to be taken as 'famous in Israel'. And he certainly did not use that phrasing to assert in the article that these communities were in Israel, since the article is quite clear on their location in the West Bank. That is responsible editing, and collaborative judgement as opposed to tactical quibbling. No such ambiguity appears to exist in the way the Fodor text has been twisted. This is a serious problem, in any case. You can get any number of your nation-state's sources to promote a line that is wide of the mark in terms of international understanding of geography and history. Experienced editors who've been around here for as long as JJG should not be playing games with this kind of slipshod sourcing. Commonsense tells us all to refrain from temptations to use sources that are evidently skewed as nationalist POVs. There can be no excuse for reading a source only to deliberately misrepresent it by careful erasure of its qualifications in order to trim it to fit a POV, as appears to be the case here. Nishidani (talk) 17:56, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

    It has been 12 days and I doubt this is an "exceptional case" (especially since he fixed it already).Cptnono (talk) 01:48, 27 November 2011 (UTC) This is some silliness. Well over 12 days. If admins don't note that traffic suddenly increased a couple days ago then they should not be attempting to fix the area. I know that Tim knows what I am talking about and I do not need to beat around the bush. A whole lot of comments all of a sudden. What is up dude?Cptnono (talk) 07:56, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

    Well, after reading JJG's point above ('Nableezy hasn’t provided a single source to support his position.'), just made, I can't help but comment. For God's sake, until I started reading wikipedia I/P articles, I thought that everyone of a certain age had elementary geography drummed into them (i.e.'Mount Hermon Mount Hermon (Arabic: Jabal Al-Shaykh) is a snowcapped ridge on the Lebanon-Syria border west of Damascus.' Laura S Etheredge (ed.) Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan, Britannica Educational Publishing/Rosen Group 2011 p.3. states, not the position but the elementary geographical fact all general readers of a certain age know). I mean, Jeezus, I can't believe any editor here isn't familiar with the maps at Israel, where Israel is one colour and occupied territories like the Golan another. This is almost comical in the farcical pretense, even among one administrator, that the average joeblow, on looking at a map can't see the obvious, or that editors in the I/P area are unfamiliar with the maps on most pages they edit. I don't care about banning. I do think soap operas in which the obvious facts, any child used to learn at school, are opinionized in such agonizing detail shouldn't be tolerated. What encyclopedia are we writing if even the most basic facts are up to POV challenges like this? Nishidani (talk) 17:15, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
    Comment by asad @WGfinley

    As someone who has been following both of these A/E threads and withheld commentary in an effort to not clog the pipes, and someone who is actively involved in the Mount Hermon article, I would have to ask you WGfinley, it appears as if you have not even looked/not cleary looked at the sources the JJG put in the article.

    -JJG added the location as being Israel in this diff.
    -When adding the reference, JJG quotes the travel guide in the ref, "Mt Hermon, famous as Israel’s highest mountain" cleverly leaving out "-- is actually in Syrian territory".. Please see the actual travel guide source here.

    I am not sure how you can back up this action as defensible. He never self-reverted, as is evidenced by the article's history, where his last time even touching the article was to add the source. WGfinley, don't take my word for it. But I implore you, please see the links that I have provided to understand what Nableezy is talking about. I would also like to point out, when JJG added the source, it appears as his search term in Google Books was, "where is mt hermon israel or syria". JJG was just fishing through Google Books to find any source he could where it stated "Israel" rather than "Syria". Hell, he couldn't even get that right. -asad (talk) 15:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

    Comment by Gatoclass

    As I posted on his talk page a few minutes ago, I think WG's latest comment on the case demonstrates that he is simply not up to speed with prevailing standards of adjudication here at AE. AE long ago left behind the notion that admins cannot make judgements about such issues as misrepresentation or falsification of sources at this page, indeed, ARBPIA enjoins administrators to take whatever steps they deem necessary to prevent disruption in these topic areas. If WG's interpretation of the rules were to be accepted, it would be straight back to the bad old days when civil POV pushers ran rampant over the topic area with no fear of consequences. Gatoclass (talk) 16:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

    Comment by The Devil's Advocate

    Not being involved in these articles much I cannot speak clearly about this particular editor's actions under ArbCom. However, I think his actions in the first diff should not be discounted because of a self-revert. Has anyone mentioned the other passage removed in that instance? That the UN declared the 1981 action in the Golan Heights null and void was reliably sourced and this information was also removed without explanation despite having been there for some time (I found it in one version from at least a year ago). JJG actually left the comment that the act in 1981 was internationally condemned so it is not that he had an issue with bringing up the stance of the international community, but appeared to have an issue with noting that the act was declared void.

    His actions with the other article demonstrated an effort to cherry-pick sources (a "best-of" list in the skiing section of Popular Mechanics should not be treated as a definitive source on the legal status of any territory just because Popular Mechanics is considered a reliable source on news about technology) that are close enough to saying what he wants that he can misconstrue them as confirming something that is plainly false. The biggest cherry-picking of all, however, was the fact JJG was using sources only about Mount Hermon rather than considering them in the context of what reliable sources say about the Golan Heights in general.

    Removing plainly relevant and reliably sourced material from one article without explanation and misrepresenting sources, including several that are definitely not reliable (travel brochures and the like are promotional material not legal documents), in another article to push a false position indicates a pattern of acting contrary to core Misplaced Pages policies like WP:V and WP:NPOV. In no sense is this a mere content dispute. The fact he stepped away from one of those edits after the AE case was filed does not change much with respect to his behavior since that could just as easily be seen as an attempt to dodge administrative action. He could have self-reverted when Nableezy requested he do so as he was obviously online at the time.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 08:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

    Comment by Ohiostandard

    In a nutshell:

    1. "Mt. Hermon" is more of a tremendously huge ridge than an individual mountain.
    2. Around 7% of its 1000 km area evidently extends southward into the extreme Northern part of the Israeli-occupied Golan. (map)
    3. The only way to claim the mountain is "in Israel" is by subscribing to Jiujitsuguy's view that the Golan itself is in Israel.
    4. His belief that the Golan is a legitimate and "integral part of Israel", as he puts it, is common among right-wing Israelis, but it's utterly rejected by "almost the entire international community, including allies of Israel", as the BBC puts it. This easily-verified fact is demonstrated by its acknowledgment in WP:Legality of Israeli settlements.
    5. Jiujitsuguy's fringe POV about Israeli-occupied territories isn't itself a problem. The problem is that he keeps on trying to use Misplaced Pages's voice to make others believe this extreme fringe POV too, even based on very thin, inappropriate, and misrepresented sources.

    What will he give us next to champion this fringe POV after Popular Mechanics as an authority on geopolitics, I wonder, if he's allowed to continue in the topic area? Cat Fancy on peace negotiations or military strategy, perhaps? And that selectively edited to leave out the inconvenient bits, as we've seen here?

    This is wholly unrepentant, long-term behavior: Jiujitsuguy "stands by his edits" to the Mt. Hermon article "one thousand percent", he repeatedly says above. This guy is obviously never going to stop pushing the extreme fringe POV that his edits there demonstrate, and that leaves the community with no alternative to a permanent topic ban.  – OhioStandard (talk) 12:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

    Afterword: In evident support for his fringe POV that the Golan Heights is "an integral part of Israel" I see that Jiujitsuguy earlier this year also deleted an original CIA Factbook map that showed the region in the same color as Syria ( from whom Israel took it in 1967 ) and that included the phrase "Israeli occupied" beneath the "Golan Heights" label. In that same edit, he replaced the map with an altered version from which "Israeli occupied" had been expunged, and that likewise showed the area in a discontinuous color from Syria. He's evidently been pushing this fringe POV for quite a long time.  – OhioStandard (talk) 13:51, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

    ( If you wish to comment, please do so in a section for your own statement rather than adding on to mine below.  – OhioStandard (talk) 12:28, 3 December 2011 (UTC) )

    Result concerning Jiujitsuguy

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
    • The consensus found by LHvU in the discussion plainly covers the Golan Heights (and the West Bank, and East Jerusalem), and it plainly states that this sentence is to be "included in all relevant articles". I'll reiterate what I have said previously: all editors in this topic area are expected and required to respect and follow this consensus in their editing, until and unless a different consensus is obtained through another RfC of similar participation. Failure to do so is ground for sanctions, including but not limited to a block or a topic ban. T. Canens (talk) 21:11, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
    @Tim, I immediately self-reverted within seconds once I was provided with the link as noted in my response above.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 22:05, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Unfortunately it comes as no surprise that Jiujitsuguy is making this kind of an edit again. If JJG 'immediately self-reverted when he was provided with the link' how come he did not notice the mention of WP:Legality of Israeli settlements in the edit summary of Nableezy's last version, the one that he reverted? The Legality page explicitly mentions the Golan Heights. And in his own statement above, JJG says "Was unaware that this so-called consensus statement applied to the Golan Heights. I was under the impression that it only applied to the West Bank." It seems doubtful he would say this if he had even *read* the single sentence which the Legality page has determined to be the consensus wording. (Yes, that single sentence includes 'Golan Heights'). Unfortunately the only practical way to keep JJG from engaging in more adventures is a renewal of his topic ban. Admins at AE have made strong statements about enforcing LHvU's formula since the pressure to boldly ignore it is so strong. I think the I/P topic ban is the only adequate method to ensure that people will respect the consensus statement. EdJohnston (talk) 02:22, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
    • Ed. I am being truthful when I say That I did not know that that template language applied to the Golan. Yes, I was indeed negligent in not seeing it in his edit summary. I only became aware of it from his AE and after reading the link, I self-reverted, literally within seconds of his filing. I'm asking not to be thrown in the cooler again. I'm asking you to AGF and to take into consideration the self revert.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 03:52, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
    • I was truthful in my first response and I will be truthful in my response to Tim’s query. The “consensus template” does not address the issue of whether Katzrin is a town, village, city or settlement. Thus, it would not be incorrect to apply any and perhaps all of these labels to this particular city so long as it comes from and RS and is verifiable.

      Concerning the subject edit, I noted at Talk page the following; "From Time magazine Israeli army tanks advance on the firing range during a training exercise, May 21, 2008, on the outskirts of the Israeli city of Katzrin in the Golan Heights. emphasis added. An equally if not greater persuasive argument can be made for calling it a town or city."

      There is also this describing Katzrin as the largest town in the Golan

      I made the edit because at the time, the first two sentences in the lead described Katzrin as a settlement without any reference to its town or city status. After my edit, the first sentence still referred to it as a settlement and the second referred to it as a town. I do not for one second regret that part of my edit (emphasis added). The only part of the edit that I regret is removal of the “consensus” language, which I immediately reverted once I realized that it also applied to towns in the Golan. (emphasis added)--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 17:24, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

    This response does not even begin to address Nableezy's point: Majd ash-Shams is the largest town in the Golan Heights. In this context, it is irrelevant whether you call Katzrin a settlement, a town, or a city, it is still smaller, and in altering the term "settlement" to "town", Jjg introduced a blatantly false assertion into the article. RolandR (talk) 18:07, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
    So I guess that all the reliable sources that refer to Katzrin as a town or city including Time Magazine The New York Times, Haaretz as well as scholaraly texts, are also asserting "baltant falsehoods," hmm?--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 18:37, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
    No, you are still missing the point. The blatant falsehood is not that Katzrin is a town or a city; it is the assertion that it is "the largest". RolandR (talk) 19:15, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
    According to this this scholarly text, Katzrin is the largest town in the Golan. So it becomes a content dispute.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 21:25, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
    You cite a source that you know is wrong and falsely claim it is a scholarly source, and you think that helps your case? Amazing. Zero 08:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
    • I dug a bit further and I think this is very relevant to that particular portion of the edit. The RFC concerning this very issue was closed as no consensus for the demand that each geographic entity beyond the 67 border be deemed a settlement in the opening sentence.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 18:55, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

    Sticking To The Point

    Nableezy has filed one action in this AE request, that JJG took action in violation of consensus. JJG reverted himself within 30 minutes of the action when it was pointed out he was wrong. What's the issue? --WGFinley (talk) 00:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

    In response to Nableezy's comment above while I am certainly aware of the type of behavior JJG gets drawn in to (having banned him in this topic area myself on more than one occasion) I don't see the particular offense here to merit AE. He put something in, the point was made to him he wasn't being accurate and after 30 minutes of reflection on it he self-reverted. That's the exact thing I would expect. --WGFinley (talk) 01:28, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

    Nableezy/JJG Redux

    See Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Result_concerning_Nableezy above. --WGFinley (talk) 06:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

    Seems we have a consensus to close, is there a support for an interaction ban for JJG and Nableezy perhaps modeled on the one with Cptnono last year? . --WGFinley (talk) 06:27, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

    My view, briefly: The edits Nableezy listed, examined individually, are arguably in good faith. Together, though, they reveal a substantially more worrying pattern of behavior. Any reasonable editor in this area should have known that whether the Golan Heights (or parts thereof) is in Israel is a highly controversial matter. The idea that this kind of controversial territorial claims can be sourced to travel guides is frankly preposterous. The repeated use of clearly suboptimal sources in furtherance of a POV, even assuming for the sake of argument that these sources say what JJG says they say, is tendentious. I think a topic ban is in order. T. Canens (talk) 12:35, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
    Sorry, I prematurely closed this as it hadn't had comments for more than a week (thought we could finally close it) and I missed your latest comment TC. He self reverted and if we started topic banning over these territorial claims we would be topic banning until the cows come home. I think JJG came forward and reverted, I don't think we should topic ban when we get desired behavior. Perhaps an admonishment to use better care and stick to reliable sources in territorial claim articles is in order? --WGFinley (talk) 06:48, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
    First, I don't see a self-revert to Mount Hermon. Second, we expect people to use high-quality sources in this kind of cases. This isn't exactly rocket science. If all of them are using sub-par sources, then banning all of them sounds like a good plan. I'm tired of seeing an ARBPIA request at AE every other week. T. Canens (talk) 11:24, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
    I don't see what he did on Mount Hermon other than to point out there's a ski resort there and added a travel guide as source for information on that. I would consider a travel guide a decent source for information on a ski resort. There doesn't seem to be any dispute there's a ski resort there, it has its own article. These folks argue incessantly over maps and even where a mountain range is based on where the peaks are! Using these nonsensical standards I guess we should put Canadian Rockies up for AfD since its peak is in the United States. We shouldn't be drawn into their content disputes by analyzing sources in taking action. I agree on this constantly coming up on AE but if we are going to reduce leniency then it needs to be across the board and not against one side or the other. But meting out a TBAN for using a travel guide as a source? That's drawing us into content where we shouldn't be going. --WGFinley (talk) 14:41, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
    I came across this discussion and I agree with WGFinley. I really don't see how Arbitration Enforcement is the forum for arguing about whether sources are good enough or not. Enigma 00:44, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
    • Proposal: JJG (and other editors if people feel it is warranted) are topic-banned from articles that are within 25km of a border or disputed border where one of the nations involved is Israel. NW (Talk) 02:51, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
    • Thanks to NW for proposing something that might allow this to close, but I'm afraid it could be more trouble than it's worth. We would then have admins trying to monitor which topics have some relevance to a border zone, getting us still deeper into content matters. I disagree with WGF on the question of whether we should look at content in the sense that sanctions have often been issued in the past for misuse of sources. This may require that admins read those sources and form an opinion on what they say. It is unfortunate that in my first reading of the complaint (back in mid-November) I thought it was just a 1RR complaint and did not realize that a lot of it was based on a claim of misreading sources. It may be too late in the day to turn the ship around, since several admins would have to (a) agree that misuse of sources was significant, and (b) decide if action is needed. The complaint has been open for over two weeks. Of the admins who commented, only T. Canens seems to have expressed concern about the issue of misreading sources. Jujitsuguy does appear to have used Google searches that try to cherry-pick data favorable to his points. For example, his above search that yielded the Balint reference was a Google Books search for 'Katzrin the largest town.' This should give us very little confidence on JJG's ability to interpret sources neutrally.
    • Meanwhile, if any admins (in addition to T. Canens) want to give a fresh read of this AE based on the angle of misuse of sources (previously neglected) and consider a topic ban on that basis, I'd be open to a further discussion. If T. Canens wants us to ban other people as well as JJG he ought to suggest which people should be on the banned list.
    • The evidence shows JJG in a bad light but it's not easy to follow. Plus, the only reasonable escalation for JJG, who has been warned and topic banned many times, is a new topic ban for several months. That would seem to need an easily-graspable violation to be justified. An alternative closure might be a full protection of Golan Heights, Mount Hermon and Katzrin for some period of time to keep the nonsense in check. EdJohnston (talk) 05:14, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
    • My position has been represented by the filing party as supporting what JJG did, I have said I don't see what the large issue here that would make him subject to sanction. Whatever the case, what he did begins to pale in comparison to the tone and accusations made by the filing party here and on my talk page. I think all parties should be cautioned to not come here with unclean hands, which is a bit what NW is getting at with these constant AE complaints and counter-complaints. I think this case should be closed with a warning to JJG to mind his sources and all concerned to work out their differences on sources and articles on the talk pages and not in revert comments as seems to be the usual style. --WGFinley (talk) 06:49, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
    Uhh, since when was it necessary that there be admin consensus for discretionary sanctions to be applied? Yall want to close this then fine, but the result is that an editor previously sanctioned for lying about sources is free to continue lying about sources. Well done, everybody. nableezy - 00:31, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
    I don't think, you of all people, should be agitating for sanctions without consensus. If I recall correctly, just a week ago there was a case here against you, where at least one admin called for your topic ban, but it wads closed as no action. Be careful what you wish for. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk)
    I call for sanctions when there is a cause for sanctions, mr obvious sock. Here we have an editor once topic-banned for misrepresenting a source to push a POV again lying about a source to push a POV. If you want to compare that to reverting a collection of socks of banned users you can do that. nableezy - 01:03, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
    You think there is a cause for sanctions, but clearly, there is no consensus that this is indeed the case. Be careful what you wish for. JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (talk) 01:08, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
    No Sherlock, I dont think there is a cause for sanctions. Additionally, I dont see how there clearly no consensus for it. The admin, WGFinley, who argued against sanctions made several comments that have been repeatedly shown to be false. He has so far refused to rectify the error, and instead has ignored repeated attempts to draw his attention that he was either a. misunderstanding the diffs, or b. purposely distorting their content. I dont care anymore, it isnt worth wasting my time with an obvious sock. I just want to have it written down here that several admins have ignored repeated willful distortion of sources to push a fringe POV into an article. A distortion that was in the article for weeks with a talk page section open discussing that distortion, with the user who had lied about the source neither self-reverting the distortion or responding on the talk page about the distortion. Im done here. nableezy - 01:29, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

    YehudaTelAviv64

    YehudaTelAviv64 has been warned of discretionary sanctions in topic area and is admonished for use of the term "vandalism" and should instead assume good faith. Reporter Biosketch is cautioned to use recent behavior in making good faith reports on AE. --WGFinley (talk) 19:09, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning YehudaTelAviv64

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    —Biosketch (talk) 23:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    YehudaTelAviv64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA#General_1RR_restriction
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 14:49, 1 December 2011 – revert of this edit by me
    2. 10:23, 2 December 2011 – revert of this edit by User:George
    3. 17:49, 2 December 2011 – probably also a revert revert of this edit by User:Jiujitsuguy
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on 1 December 2011 by me, followed by this message by Admin:EdJohnston.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The user's behavior is aggressive and hostile, and his edits at Golan Heights and Holocaust-related articles articles could be considered POV-oriented. Additionally, there've been concerns he's masquerading as a new user under false pretenses.—Biosketch (talk) 23:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

    After being formally advised by an Admin of ARBPIA sanctions, YTA64 continues to edit-war against consensus at Golan Heights:
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    Notified.—Biosketch (talk) 23:18, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning YehudaTelAviv64

    Statement by YehudaTelAviv64

    This user is hounding me in response to me reporting him for edit warring here in the Administrators noticeboard.

    Also, he calls my removal of an image with clear copyright violations a revert of an edit from May 16, 2011. It's entirely unreasonable to call my removal of that image a revert, especially since I had never even heard of that edit until Biosketch hunted it down for this ridiculous witch-hunt. I went through a lot of work to track down the origin of that image and I found that it is a Rights Managed photo that is part of the Hulton-Deutsch Collection/CORBIS collection. Biosketch himself recommended that that image be deleted. Biosketch is just hounding me for the sake of hounding me.

    The same is also true for the third diff he links to. I tracked down the copyright violation (it's a Corbis Rights Managed photo) and removed the image from the article. Biosketch then tracked down some ancient edit from February 2011 and claimed the image removal was a revert of that. The first diff he links to was an edit where I undid a revert that he himself made and did not bother to discuss on the talk page. He also did not link to his revert here. I opened a discussion regarding my edit immediately, but Biosketch did not bother to link to that discussion when he opened this request.

    I was very clear in my image removal edit summaries that they were clear copyright violations. I suspect that Biosketch threw those edits into this request as part of his hounding efforts to make it make it more difficult to respond to this request by adding spurious accusations to refute. He must have seen those edit summaries.

    Furthermore, "concerns he's masquerading as a new user under false pretenses" refers to these personal attacks that I reported here in Wikiquette assistance. Also, he accused me of "aggressive and hostile" and "POV-oriented" edits but then did not point out any instances of this.

    I would appreciate it if someone could stop Biosketch from hounding me so I can instead spend my time on constructive edits. YehudaTelAviv64 (talk) 04:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning YehudaTelAviv64

    Comment by Sean.hoyland

    I don't understand your reaction to the questions about whether you have edited before and your statements about lack of evidence. You look like a sockpuppet because your edits are not like those of a new user. The observational evidence suggests that you are not a new user. Every edit you make is one more piece of evidence that you aren't a new user. So, they aren't evidenceless statements. They're statements based on observations by experienced rational observers using heuristic methods that have a near 100% success rate. In other words, people know what sockpuppets look like and you look like one. You could simply say whether or not you have edited under a previous account and if you have, tell people what it was and move on. You haven't done that yet. You've confirmed that you aren't a Pelican which has at least ruled out one of the large water birds but while questions remain unanswered and you find yourself in conflict with other users, partly because of their doubts and partly because of your responses to them, my concern is that your presence will attract sockpuppets to the topic area who will justify their presence by your presence. Editors could also use it as yet another excuse to do nothing about the long term repeat offender sockpuppetry by people whose views they agree with. If you just answer the question, edit constructively and don't come into conflict with other editors, people might just leave you alone. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

    I act insulted when people accuse me of being a sockpuppet because it's insulting to my intelligence. A stupid person would have trouble understanding Misplaced Pages formatting right off the bat and these accusers point to my correct formatting as proof of sock-puppetry. I have never edited under a previous account. I'm astounded that people are surprised that I was able to learn about formatting from Misplaced Pages's pages on formatting and by looking at other formatting in articles. This is not complicated stuff. Your "100% success rate" figure sounds made up. I am not a sockpuppet, time to move on people. I've been accused of both pro-Israel bias and anti-Israel bias now, and that was just for my constructive edits. I'd like to spend more time working on my constructive edits, but it's difficult when confused editors hound me with false accusations. YehudaTelAviv64 (talk) 07:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
    Okay, since you've said that you've not edited under a previous account that is all I wanted to hear, thank you. And if you could continue to edit in a way that results in you being accused of both pro-Israel bias and anti-Israel bias that would be great. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:41, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
    It appears the pelican remark is because an editor accused Yehuda of being User:Supreme Deliciousness whose user page features an image of a pelican. What I will say is that what seems more relevant to me is how the editor has used various templates and policy references. My impression from the editor's actual usage of formatting is that this is not an experienced editor. The way the editor started out citing sources, for instance, is similar to how I started out with citations. Using the ref tags and simple brackets around a plain link rather than a more complex citation template does not suggest an experienced editor. Also, any editor who brushes up against a serious dispute is likely to end up becoming very familiar with policy very quickly. Even so, the manner in which Yehuda pursued policy actions again does not demonstrate familiarity. He went to AN/I to report an ArbCom violation. If this was an editor familiar with the dispute and familiar with Misplaced Pages it is not likely that he would have been unaware that AE is the place to file such reports.
    None of this editor's contributions appear to be particularly problematic or tendentious. Seems this is more a case of WP:BITE than anything else.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 07:44, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

    Comment by Shrike

    Did the user broke 1RR?

    Comment by Cptnono

    Reverts are reverts. He was right to make them (copyvio is a major concern) but it is not exempt from edit warring in the topic area. To block or ban would be silly since he was not being malicious but don't give a strait pass on it. Misplaced Pages is not supposed to be a bureaucracy but when editing in this topic area it is. It should have been "hey YehudaTelAviv64, next time make the revert but follow it up immediately with a request for assistance from the community". He was actually right says consensus but we all know editors have assumed (and edit warred) over copyright violations when it is undetermined. Being proactive by seeking the proper channels (there is a whole group of Wikipedians who look out for potential copyvios) would have been better than what resulted. I think admins should be a little more blunt in their warnings on this. Yes, he thought he was right. But he may not be right next time. Make the revert if you are confident that it is for the good of the project but make sure to follow it up in the appropriate channels. It may not matter in other topic areas but it matters here since not following protocol ends in requests for enforcement of the arbitration decision. That does not help anyone.

    Result concerning YehudaTelAviv64

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
    1. Diff 1 is troubling, with the "vandalism" comment, will await his response.
    2. Diff 2 and Diff 3 the user was right, they are copyvios and appear to be on their way out at Commons.
    3. The sock allegation has no proof submitted, you'll need to provide more info or go to WP:SPI if you have evidence believing the user to be a sock.

    Appears an admonition about reverts in P-I space and use of the term "vandalism" are in order. --WGFinley (talk) 01:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

    Editor75439

    Topic banned indefinitely
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Editor75439

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    MastCell  18:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Editor75439 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and intelligence#Case amendments (discretionary sanctions)
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    Editor75439 (talk · contribs) is a single-purpose account. Over the 5 days since this account's creation, it has made several hundred edits focusing solely on William Herbert Sheldon and his claims about somatotype and constitutional psychology. I believe that this topic clearly falls under the WP:ARBR&I discretionary sanctions ("the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, broadly construed").

    This account's edits consistently remove (well-sourced) negative information and attempt to present this topic in an unduly favorable light. For instance, here he removes two New York Times citations, leaving the article essentially unsourced. (The Times states that Sheldon's claims have "long been dismissed by most scientists as quackery", a conclusion which is unacceptable to Editor75439). He seeks to replace the content of these reliable sources with his personal opinion (that "Sheldon's somatotypology is the de-facto standard in modern developmental psychology.")

    He has edit-warred to remove the Times source; see , where he uses a false and deceptive edit summary (the quote is not from a "former Ivy League student", as even the briefest perusal of the source confirms). He was blocked for edit-warring to remove this sourced material on 3 December; since the block expired, he has immediately resumed edit-warring to remove the sources and material, with no further discussion (, , ).

    He clearly places his personal viewpoint above that of reliable sources (e.g. edit summary here), and has edit-warred to remove those reliable sources and replace them with his personal beliefs.

    His talkpage contributions (which start here) are less than constructive:

    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on 2 December by MastCell (talk · contribs).
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    This is a single-purpose agenda account edit-warring to remove well-sourced information and to promote their personal beliefs. Since their behavior contravenes a large percentage of our content and behavioral policies, I think administrative action is warranted even in the absence of discretionary sanctions. Since the article falls under discretionary sanctions, the bar should be if anything a bit lower for dealing with this kind of editing.

    I would request a topic ban or, failing that, a 1RR restriction to at least tamp down the agenda-driven edit-warring to a manageable level. MastCell  18:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Editor75439

    Statement by Editor75439

    Comments by others about the request concerning Editor75439

    The user in question has failed to follow Misplaced Pages policy multiple times, even after warnings, ranging from NPOV (removal of critical material, particularly material critical of fringe theories) to failing to discuss massive changes on the talk page to engaging in personal attacks (see Talk:Somatotype and constitutional psychology#Removed material not mentioned in the original source, self-published references; copyright status?). Most of the material this user has newly added (after the block was lifted) is extremely similar or identical to the previously-removed (for original syntheses, material not in citations, etc) material, thus being a de facto reversion. I have attempted to do some repair work on the article, including placing back in some critical material removed by Editor75439; we will see whether the user in question (if allowed) removes, reverts, or otherwise alters it from NPOV. Allens (talk) 18:29, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

    Apparently they are continuing down that road. See diff et seq. De728631 (talk) 18:32, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
    And similarly on Somatotype and constitutional psychology; see diffs , . I will, of course, refrain from further reversions of this material (at least while this user is allowed to be active), not wishing to engage in an edit war; it is unfortunate that this leaves some citations not properly formatted (I had been trying to turn this user's block quotes into proper citations with, if desired, quote portions). Allens (talk) 18:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

    Result concerning Editor75439

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    FergusM1970

    FergusM1970 (talk · contribs) blocked 24 hours and topic-banned from articles within the scope of WP:TROUBLES for three months. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning FergusM1970

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Mo ainm~Talk 10:11, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    FergusM1970 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 09:08, 6 December 2011 Revert #1 to FergusM1970's version
    2. 09:33, 6 December 2011 Revert #2 to FergusM1970's version
    3. 09:49, 6 December 2011 Revert #3 to FergusM1970's version
    4. 09:58, 6 December 2011 Revert #4 to FergusM1970's version
    5. 10:03, 6 December 2011 Revert #5 to FergusM1970's version
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on 09:43, 6 December 2011 by Mo ainm (talk · contribs)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Edit warring against consensus and against multiple editors. My offer for him to self-revert and avoid being reported was met with this and revert #4. Since starting this request editor has now made a fifth revert in a 24 hour period..

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notification of this request


    Discussion concerning FergusM1970

    Statement by FergusM1970

    The city is called Londonderry. That's it's legal name. There is no dispute about this, therefore it's ridiculous for people to insist that the nickname "Derry" is given prominence over the actual name. Multiple editors acting together to force me to either break 3RR or leave false information in an article is abusive. I request that the users who have reverted my edits are required to prove that the city is NOT properly named Londonderry, and that if they cannot do this they are subjected to appropriate sanctions. --FergusM1970 (talk) 11:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning FergusM1970

    You'd think someone so obsessed with accuracy wouldn't replace the text "While the city is more usually known as Derry" with "also called Derry by Irish nationalists" despite the references he removed saying "but today most people just call it Derry, whatever their politics" and "Popular opinion has it that nationalists call it Derry while Protestants call it Londonderry. However, as with most things in Northern Ireland, it's not always as simple as that. Many Protestants also refer familiarly to the city as Derry". Of course we (well, most of us I hope) all can see therefore the edits aren't related to accuracy at all, but FergusM1970 editing based on his own opinions. WP:ROPE springs to mind with this editor, based on his current talk page posts I'm not brimming with confidence that the behaviour won't continue once his current block expires, so we'll probably be back here again in a few days time I think.... 2 lines of K303 13:15, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

    Result concerning FergusM1970

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    I've enacted a short (standard 24hrs) block to stop the edit-warring, because FergusM1970 had already broken 3RR and seemed unwilling to stop. I'll leave this open for the moment to determine if further discretionary sanctions are appropriate. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:56, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

    So, lemme see. The guy has two prior blocks for revert-warring, one back in 2009 (on a political topic broadly related to British national politics) and another (though on an unrelated topic) as recently as a month ago. He's showing an aggressive and inflexible "I'm right, you're wrong" stance and unwillingness to consider established consensus. This edit appears quite unacceptable to me. I also find this edit troublesome, as its reference to "people who don't like the laws of the land they choose to live in", directed at Northern Irish republicans, displays a highly hostile and divisive attitude.
    Any objections against a topic ban? The area is now not only under the old Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case but also under Standard discretionary sanctions. Has the necessary warning paperwork be done to apply those? Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:18, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
    Seems he was warned but he did exactly 3 reverts after the warning. I'm on the fence about it and might be inclined to admonish as oppose to sanction. --WGFinley (talk) 15:12, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
    "Only" three reverts after the warning? I'm not sure how that is supposed to be a mitigating factor. This means he had already broken 1RR before the warning, so even a single revert after it was two too many. Plus breaking normal 3RR too. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:24, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
    (edit conflict)I think that the warning (issued at 09:43 Dec 6 UTC) is fair notification, and I think you must be mistaken WGFinley - the WP:TROUBLES ruling imposes a 1rr on all articles related to it - he was in breach that ruling before the warning. He then reverted 3 times after the notification, thus he is well into sanctionable territory. Support topic ban based on this and on the battleground mentality evidenced by FPaS--Cailil 15:31, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
    I agree that FergusM1970 has clearly broken the 1RR, which needs no warning. By continuing to revert after Mo ainm gave him a warning on his talk page that linked to the WP:TROUBLES arbcom case, Fergus opened himself up to regular discretionary sanctions. It seems to me that, given how determined he is, a three-month restriction from the Troubles articles could be justified. EdJohnston (talk) 15:46, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

    Jonchapple

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Jonchapple

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Domer48'fenian' 21:00, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Jonchapple (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Arbitration Enforcement Topic Ban
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 7 December 2011 Editor is Topic Banned from "All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland..." as of 11:41, 20 October 2011
    2. 6 October 2011 While adding the fact tags are questionable considering their ban, removing the text is violating their ban.
    3. 6 December 2011 Again, this has been a matter of some dispute and is also subject to the Topic Ban.


    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on20 October 2011 by KillerChihuahua (talk · contribs) explicit warning on flags
    2. Warned on20 October 2011 by KillerChihuahua (talk · contribs)
    3. Warned on 29 October 2011 by EdJohnston (talk · contribs)
    4. Warned on 14 October 2011 by EdJohnston (talk · contribs)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    This editor was given a topic ban on 20 October 2011 for violating the terms of their Arbitration enforced probation. They were explicitly warned about the issue of flags and some of the diff's used during the Arbitration which imposed the topic ban were on exactly the same article herehere. Having been topic banned, they were then blocked by Arbitration for 3 weeks for violating the ban and imposed by Mkativerata here. Despite this block, they then launch a personal attack on me describing me as a sympathisers of terror. Regardless of the fact that they have been already warned by Arbitration for another personal attack on me, I actually let this go despite the scurrilous nature of the attack. Now having be warned, blocked and "Topic Banned" from all articles related to The Troubles, they again violated their ban. Regardless of who makes an edit on a Troubles related article, this editor has no business on these subjects! They are Banned. I also want that personal attack removed.
    • Reply to Bretonbanquet: They were given explicit warnings on flags! They are topic banned, and have no business reverting anyone on any article that is covered by their ban. They were blocked for violating their topic ban already, and were explicitly warned about personal attacks. They have ignored all and every warning.--Domer48'fenian' 22:50, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    • I've added another diff as I consider it a violation of their ban. Adding fact-tags only to remove the text is plain gaming of the ban and the fact-tags.--Domer48'fenian' 23:07, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Jonchapple

    Statement by Jonchapple

    Ed, I reverted an IP-hopping vandal. Bretonbanquet above or somebody else would have done exactly the same if I hadn't've got there first, because the edit added an incorrect piece of pointy vandalism that directly contravened both Misplaced Pages consensus and the bare facts. And if you really think I'm making "no effort to curtial my inappropriate edits", we must really be looking at a different list of contributions. I see a set of useful, contructive, good-faith edits that are helping to make this project a more accurate resource. I don't know what else I can say. JonC 22:28, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning Jonchapple

    Can an article about a racing driver be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland..? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:25, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

    It is not the racing driver article per se but the addition/reversion of Irish/British flags that is covered by the sanctions. Mo ainm~Talk 22:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    Even when he's simply reverting vandalism by a popped-up-out-of-nowhere IP? The edit he reverted looks extremely dubious to say the least. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:30, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    It wasn't vandalism it is a long running content dispute that is ongoing and I'm surprised that he even made the revert knowing full well that flags were covered in his topic ban. As regard to it being an IP hopping vandal I don't know if they are or not but they made two edits which certainly wouldn't be construed as vandalism. Mo ainm~Talk 22:42, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    The dispute has been dormant for five weeks after no sources were found by anyone to back up one side of the argument. Given the discussion on the talk page and the lack of edit summary, I'd say it was vandalism. A total of two edits, one of which just happens to be extremely contentious? Hmmm... At best, it's disruptive. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:48, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    As I was the last one to enter the UK flag icon before the IP edited it to the Irish one I feel that if Jonchapple hadnt undone it myself or Bretonbanquet would have . I had edited the discussion page] with up-to-date facts before I became aware of this . If this is consistent with the Troubles ruling , maybe in Jonchapple's case it is , it is also about the motor racing issue. There is no evidence to show that Carroll has ever been Irish in a sporting sense and that the remit of flags in motor racing infoboxes is based on sporting nationality - Northern Irish isnt a motor racing nationality and as Carroll isnt Irish the editor has just undone a comment with-out an edit summary and without a discussion ot the talk page . The IP made no effort to engage , discuss or explain their edit , the undoing of which would seem appropriate for an article on motor racing .Murry1975 (talk) 02:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

    Result concerning Jonchapple

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    The main diff (the alleged violation) seems to be broken (will erase this comment when fixed so as not to clutter the page). --Mkativerata (talk) 21:03, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

    • The recent practice at AE has been to consider revert warring on British versus Irish nationality for people born in Northern Ireland as being covered by Troubles enforcement. In fact Jonchapple was blocked for a week on 28 October for this revert in which he disputed the nationality of a golfer named Rory McIlroy. His new edits at Adam Carroll represent more of the same. Nothing has changed, he was blocked before for the same thing, and he seems to be making no effort to curtail his inappropriate edits. I suggest doubling the previous block, which was for three weeks. EdJohnston (talk) 22:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    • Per Ed, I agree this is more of the same from Jonchapple and support a 6 week block. However, given that this user will then have been blocked for 9 weeks of his 13 week (3 month) topic ban for violating it I'd suggest resetting the ban from the date of his future unblock (ie a new 3 month topic ban to run from Jan 18 2012)--Cailil 23:41, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
    • I've blocked Jonchapple for six weeks. If he wasn't aware that edit-warring over nationalities like that was considered to be within the scope of WP:TROUBLES, he might have had a defence, but considering Ed clearly warned him about it (and this is very similar conduct to that which got him blocked last time), that is not applicable. The suggestion resetting the topic ban is not an unreasonable one and I'll leave this open for discussion of that proposal. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
      I support the block, the two edits are blatant violations of the TBAN, it wasn't vandalism that was added, typical POV pushing in this topic space (large chunk of Unionist vs Nationalist language in the first diff and "province" vs "country" of Northern Ireland in the second). I support resetting the topic ban to 3 months from this date. --WGFinley (talk) 01:57, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

    YehudaTelAviv64

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning YehudaTelAviv64

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    brewcrewer (yada, yada) 02:40, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    YehudaTelAviv64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA#General_1RR_restriction
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Dec 7 adds redundant info about occupation – revert 1
    2. Dec 7 adds redundant info about occupation – revert 2
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on 1 December 2011 by Biossketch, followed by EdJohnston, followed by Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#YehudaTelAviv64 closed three days ago, followed by User talk:EdJohnston#YehudaTelAviv64, followed by Wgfinely (I may be missing a few)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    In response to the comments below: My understanding of policy is that adding info is considered a revert because it changes the status quo. If this is incorrect, this can be speedily closed. However, I would like to point out the clear misuse WP:BRD policy at Talk:Golan Heights#revert explanation regarding this very complaint. He is claiming that BRD allows to him to re-add information that was reverted with an explanation on the talk page.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 02:58, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

    • You said, "...clear misuse WP:BRD policy..." -- BRD isn't policy. From WP:BRD:
    "BRD is not a policy. This means it is not a process that you can require other editors to follow." and "BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes. Don't invoke BRD as your reason for reverting someone else's work or for edit warring: instead, provide a reason that is based on policies, guidelines, or common sense."
    YehudaTelAviv64 (talk) 03:06, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning YehudaTelAviv64

    Statement by YehudaTelAviv64

    This is Misplaced Pages:Harassment. The first diff is clearly not a revert. YehudaTelAviv64 (talk) 02:49, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

    Comments by others about the request concerning YehudaTelAviv64

    What does the first dif revert? It looks like the second dif is the only revert here - not a violation. Jd2718 (talk) 02:48, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

    Result concerning YehudaTelAviv64

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    I do consider the first diff a revert, there has been several days of wrangling over this language These diffs pretty much outlined the current edit war. I have already protected the article due to the warring, I believe an article ban of 7 days would be in order for Yehuda. I will take a look at the harassment allegation. --WGFinley (talk) 03:07, 8 December 2011 (UTC)