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This page is an attempt to make a collection of precedent setting Votes for Deletion decisions. These decisions are either a record of the first time Wikipedians have confronted a certain issue, or the first time a convention breaking decision was reached. It only includes those decisions that have the potential to decide the fate of large numbers of articles.

While pages like What Misplaced Pages is not play an important roll in VfD decisions the body of precedent also plays a crucial roll. However those precedents tend to be only vaguely remembered and only by veteran Wikipedians. It is hoped this page can act as a quick reference to remind old users and educate new ones of previous VfD decisions.

It is also hoped this page can also help reduce the arbitrariness of deletions by creating a more concrete body of examples of what merits inclusion.

Note that some of these precedents are long outdated and should probably be revisited, after that is done this page should be updated.

Neologisms

Do 169 Google hits merit deletion or redirection? - Yes

  • Media distraction This article presents a variety of so-called censorship techniques that are already covered at propaganda and creates the name Media distraction to label them. My searching has not shown that the literature at large uses this concept and this article appears to be not much more than a political essay masquerading as an article. Google searchs on "media distraction" returns very few hits, and google searches on the key phrases within the article receive zero. Finally, a Lexis-Nexis search on this phrase returns no usages in the sense that the article implies. -◈¡◈
    • It has useful content which is expressed poorly. It is certainly a candidate for revision, and I don't like article title, but there is no case for deletion. Tannin 00:08 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
      • Misplaced Pages is not a depository for personal essays on non-existent topics, even if they have "useful content". There is no such beast as "Media distraction", and this stuff is already covered at propaganda or censorship. -◈¡◈
    • Seconded. looxix 00:23 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
    • The media distraction article should be deleted, but its contents should be moved to the censorship and propaganda. I wouldn't be able to do that well, so could someone else? LittleDan
see discussion about censorship in the United States, which is about the same topic. It was mentioned in the discussion page in censorship in the United States that several people thought that article was relevant in wikipedia in terms of content (though some would probably say the article needs editing) and agreed for it being moved to the new page media distraction (name not proposed by the initial author himself). If there is a disagreement with the name given, please discuss it in the talk page of the article. I have no opinion over any new name, but I strongly object to deletion. user:anthere
    • media distraction appears to simply not be an encylopedic topic. Since there are no authorities that used this phrase, and no body of knowledge relating to this topic, any user could claim anything they want about media distraction without there being any way of deciding that their statement was right or wrong. I've asked politely for some sign that this is a "real" concept, used by some sort of recognized authority on censorship or propaganda, and have been rebuffed. This remains a request for deletion, and not for renaming. -◈¡◈
      • A google search for "media distraction" give 169 hits. Some newspaper also use this term, for example: http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/media/columns/medialife/5396/. -- looxix 20:16 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
        • My point exactly. 169 google hits is nothing, and the nytimes article you quoted doesn't use the phrase in any sort of context that applies censorship or propaganda.
      • I support this article's deletion (under any name). The relevant issues are already covered elsewhere. It might be interesting for Disinfopedia, though. --Eloquence 22:26 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

Do 676 Google hits merit deletion? - Yes

  • Neutrosophy and related pages: This terminology seems to be used by Florentin Smarandache, who posted it, and (almost?) no one else. A Google search for Neutrosophy gets 676 hits: a search for occurrence
    • Remainder of discussion moved to Talk:Neutrosophy. Deletion is opposed by a plethora of new users, and Harry Potter. -- Tim Starling 07:37 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)
    • Please delete these pages. Practically all of the opposition to deletion comes from several new users who make no other contributuion to Misplaced Pages, and may very well be the same person. Mintguy 10:50 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)
  • Hello! As an example of application of neutrosophy in information fusion in finance for example there are some papers by Dr. Khoshnevisan and Dr. Bhattacharya, where the fuzzy theory doesn't work because fuzzy theory has only two components, while the neutrosophy has three components: truth, falsehood, and indeterminacy (or <A>, <Anti-A>, and <Neut-A>), i.e. about investments which are: Conservative and security-oriented (risk shy), Chance-oriented and progressive (risk happy), or Growth-oriented and dynamic (risk neutral). Other applications are in voting process, for example: FOR, AGAINST, and NEUTRAL (about a candidate) (<A>, <Anti-A>, and <Neut-A>). I think this is clear, if you want to hear it of course. New ideas always face opposition... arizonaval (I posted it in two place being the same subject.)
  • This discussion started on June 5, 2003. Can I assume that, since there has been little or no opposition from genuine users, these pages will be deleted on the 12th? Evercat 23:09 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)
  • That's strange! After so many arguments and applications FOR keeping the pages in here, you talk now about deletion?! It's not normal. Lit-sci
    • Not at all. If there is a single user who has contributed anything to the Misplaced Pages who objects, it might matter, but since only the various incarnations of one person have made any objections, and none of them has a history of contributing to the project, they aren't considered neutral obeservors. -- Zoe 02:57 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Do 1430 Google hits merit inclusion? - Yes

  • Affectional orientation
    • Ed Poor May 28, 2002, because : <i>only one Wikipedian advocates the term; I\'ve never heard of it (could be reduced to a single sentence or even a clause in Sexual Orientation article</i>
Wow! This wikipedian must get around, I found 1,430 webpages by searching for this term on Google. --maveric149
I agree; I think this article has to be kept. --Daniel C. Boyer

Should a term that is used in scientific articles but has no formal definition have its own article? - No

  • Quantum flux The definition is absolutely wrong. "Quantum flux" is not a term used in any branch of physics I'm aware of. -- CYD
    • The term is used in at least one journal article I found on google (abstract: ), but I can't glean enough information from that usage to figure out what it means. Some searching through the physics SPIN journal database indicates that it's been used in 41 indexed articles in prominent peer-reviewed journals over the past decade, so it appears to be a legitimate but not very common term. --Delirium 05:10 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)
      • I've got full text access to those SPIN hits, here's what I found. The SQUID people (like what Delirium found) seem to be talking about a magnetic flux -- some kind of magnetic effect which is inherent to the device rather than externally applied. There's a paper in Phys Rev D called "Quantum flux from a moving spherical mirror". They use it to mean particle (or probability) flux. It's closer to what Reddi's talking about. I'll quote some of it at Talk:Quantum flux. -- Tim Starling 05:44 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)
        • The SQUID term refers to the magnetic flux quantum, which is a magnetic flux that is quantized due to the presence of a supercurrent. Using "quantum flux" to refer to it is okay, but it's not a precise technical term. The mirror stuff is obviously referring to a flux of photons. I'm putting up a temporary page, but I still think the page should be deleted -- there's really nothing to say except that the term "quantum flux" is confused. -- CYD

Defining the Dict. Def.

Should dictionary definitions that have potential to become real articles be kept? - Yes

  • Reason
    • Vicki Rosenzweig July 8, 2002, because : wikipedia is not a dictionary, and this is essentially circular
      • It isn't much, I agree, but I don't know that an article with so many links to it should be deleted. Why surrender so easily? I just grabbed the article on Reason from the 11th (every encyclopedia in the house has an article on reason or reasoning), so I'm sticking that in there. Ortolan88, Monday, July 8, 2002

Are articles on words with extensive etymology and usage sections valid - Yes

Than

  • Dicdef --Rlandmann 05:47, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete - dicdef - Texture 14:14, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. I think we should allow dicdefs to be speedy-deletion candidates. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:49, Mar 4, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Information on contested issues of English usage is valuable and encyclopedic. Smerdis of Tlön 17:11, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
    • Expanded with etymologies, reworded. -- Smerdis of Tlön 20:44, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, transwiki to Misplaced Pages where its new expanded form will fit well. Warofdreams 18:19, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. This is a description of language, not a dictionary definition. Jamesday 00:36, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Are articles on words that originated in German valid? - Yes

  • Verboten - Dictionary definition. Can't think of any conceivable encyclopedic content that could go under that name. Delirium 04:44 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • Axe It! -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 12:09 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • This is linked from List of German expressions in English, which encourages the creation of such pages, and coexists with many similar ones. Arguably, the entire list is more a thing for Wiktionary than for Misplaced Pages, but while it exists, I see no reason why this individual page should be removed. --Eloquence 16:53 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)
      • Ah, didn't notice that. Perhaps the list has some place in Misplaced Pages, as a documentation of German influence on the English language through contemporary word-borrowing (rather than common heritage). However, I don't think there need to be separate pages for these words, since that'd degenerate into a dictionary. So I'd support deleting essentially all the pages linked from that list. -- Delirium 02:21 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • I wouldn't delete them. We should move them to Wiktionary instead. Emperorbma 07:47 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Are famous phrases encyclopedic? - Yes

Are prefixes and suffixes valid? - Yes

  • Ab-, -oid
    • Misplaced Pages is not a dictionary
      • And these are not dictionary entries, they are explanations of a common prefix and suffix, respectively. They may be a bit short, but they are not dictionary definitions. See super.

Are articles on idioms appropriate? - Yes

Names

See also: Misplaced Pages:Criteria for inclusion of biographies

Are surnames valid topics for articles? No

  • Noyes
    • jheijmans June 28, 2002, because : wikipedia is not a genealogy index
      • Toby Bartels, Friday, June 28, 2002 : I can see arguments for keeping it, but not strongly enough to make them. However, if somebody else does and we do keep this, then all of the alternative spellings should redirect to this article, not be linked from it!
        • Content moved to metapedia. Page is ready for deletion by another sysop. See meta:Noyes
Note: This decision is inconsistent with later practises and should probably be revisited.

Are disambiguation pages for people with the same surname valid? Yes

  • Lafontaine - a diambig page for the surname "Lafontaine" -- I don't think we should start to create diambig lists for surnames. -- till we *) 18:50, Aug 2, 2003 (UTC)
    • I created the page, mostly because it was listed on the requested pages. I think it has for a long time been wikipedia practice, if not policy, to make disambig pages for commonly linked to surnames. e.g. we already have ones like Wesley, Strauss, Schumann, Russell, and Scarlatti, and other pages like Baker and Miller that are mostly lists of people with the surname. - SimonP 19:19, Aug 2, 2003 (UTC)
    • It's fine as disamb. Quite useful. Sometimes ppl just know of a famous person by their surname (Shakespeare). --Menchi 21:06, Aug 2, 2003 (UTC)
      • I'd keep it. -- Jake 12:06, 2003 Aug 3 (UTC)

Are first names valid topics for articles? No they should be redirected to wikitionary

  • Uwe: a dictionary entry on the personal name. Not anyone by the name, the name itself. -- John Owens 16:19 19 May 2003 (UTC)
    • It's a useful stub. --The Cunctator (from the edit summary when removing entry from page)
    • User:The Cunctator seems to vote against deletion, thinking it's "a useful stub", and that that's enough reason to remove it from VfD immediately and *cough* unilaterally. I disagree. -- John Owens 00:15 20 May 2003 (UTC)
    • Well, credit where it's due: that's half right. It is a stub, albeit a microscopic one. It's not useful in its current form, however, and difficult to imagine how it could ever become so. I vote to delete it. Tannin 04:00 20 May 2003 (UTC)
    • I think it's a useful stub. You disagree. Does that mean it should be deleted? I think a much healthier policy is to not delete entries that people reasonably disagree on whether it should be deleted. But hey, if you prefer killing information to keeping it, then maybe that should be the Misplaced Pages Way. --The Cunctator
    • It would be useful as part of an article on Etymology of names or something like that, yes. But Misplaced Pages entries should be about Uwe himself (if there were one that stood out), not about the word "Uwe". That's what http://wiktionary.org/ is for. -- John Owens 05:07 20 May 2003 (UTC)
    • I agree that it's not a finished article, but I think it's a good start. If you think it belongs on wiktionary.org, I'd hope you think you have an obligation to put that content there before you delete it. Part of my bias is that I want Misplaced Pages to end up being a true encyclopedia, not an emulation of a paper one. I see that you feel it's necessary to leave the ad hominem commentary in. Pity, that.--The Cunctator
    • What harm is this inoffensive stub doing to anybody? Why shouldn't there be enyclopaedia articles about names and their provenance, history, meaning, etc? I'm with The Cunctator on this. GrahamN 05:47 20 May 2003 (UTC)
    • I agree with John in that I think information on the provenance, history, meaning, etc. of words or names belongs in Wiktionary. Articles such as Timothy or John should continue to talk about people with that name, not the name itself. I vote for moving this page to wiktionary:Uwe and replacing the current page with an interwiki redirect. -- Tim Starling 06:23 20 May 2003 (UTC)
      • Is there a policy supporting the presence of interwiki redirects? I don't like them. If someone clicks on an internal link in the Misplaced Pages, they expect to stay in the Misplaced Pages. To redirect them out of it without their approval is just confusing. -- Oliver P. 17:17 20 May 2003 (UTC)
        • I don't like them either, not least because they are difficult to edit. I won't mind if someone deletes it altogether. But it is only an orphan, so internal links are rare. If you want to discuss this further, I suggest we move to Misplaced Pages talk:How to use redirect pages. -- Tim Starling 00:28 21 May 2003 (UTC)
Note: This decision differs from current practice and should probably be revisited

People

Do 955 Google hits and some media attention merit inclusion? - Yes

  • Anibal Verón is an orphan article about an innocent bystander. Although his death is tragic, is he historically significant. Kingturtle 02:01 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
IMO harmless; leave it. -- Infrogmation 08:11 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
His name gets 955 hits on Google (mostly in Spanish), and another 160 as "Veron". He's considered a martyr by some, and there is an Argentine worker's movement named after him, which facts I've added to the text. --Infrogmation 17:34 Apr 19, 2003 (UTC)

Are five Google News hits from local papers enough for inclusion? - Yes

  • Sarah_Marple-Cantrell doesn't seem to be anyone who warrants an encyclopedia entry. Timo Honkasalo 15:49 20 May 2003 (UTC)
    • Apparently she was a twelve-year-old girl who shot herself. I suspect that's pretty unusual, even for Texas (although for some reason there seems to be a dearth of online news reports), and so therefore perhaps worthy of note. -- Oliver P. 16:53 20 May 2003 (UTC)
    • I agree with Oliver. If she was on the news, then she's worth noting. I mean lets face it, we've had people on the news for less important things (read: the woman who claims to have had an affair with President Kennedy). Now, to my business in this page....Antonio Unhibited Martin
    • As about 60% of suicides in US are done with firearms, I see no reason to assume that they are not used by girls. As for the news, only thing Google could come up with was five hits, three of them pointing to same article in dallasnews.com. Local news, that is. - Timo Honkasalo 17:26 20 May 2003 (UTC)
      • Local news for local people? Well, Misplaced Pages is for everyone (even local people), and Wiki is not paper so we have room. -- Oliver P. 18:12 20 May 2003 (UTC)
Relisted on VfD in February 2004, again decision was to keep. See Talk:Sarah_Marple-Cantrell for more.

Are ten Google hits enough for a person no longer alive today? Yes

  • Elizabeth Hawkins-Whitshed is not really an article, and on Google, there are 10 hits, 3 of which are from Misplaced Pages, while the others seem to be about different people with that name. Adam Bishop 05:09 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • Climbing any serious mountain with a skirt seems a bit... --Menchi 05:12 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
      • I bet Bill Brasky did it. Adam Bishop 05:19 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • She was a mountaineering pioneer, and wrote several books. It's true that there aren't many Google hits, but there should be! (There are a couple more under her married names.) I'm sure more information will turn up about her later... -- Oliver P. 14:40 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Does a site that indicates 2 million visitors merit inclusion for its creator? - Yes

  • Jacques Kinnaer - this person does not seem to be a major figure ... yet. olivier 08:37 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • A student in his Masters degree? Doesn't sound very ...professional, yet. Nice site, though. --Menchi 18:24 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • Hmm, I was going to agree with deleting, but that is quite a major and professionally done site, and the counter indicates it's gotten over 2m visitors. If accurate that's probably on the borderline of encyclopedic, though the article should be slightly changed to note that his 'claim to fame' is the website, not his academic work in egyptology. --Delirium 21:45 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)
      • I agree with Delirium--the site would be his best argument for inclusion. A simple article seems like a fitting thing to me (if it became five paragraphs on his contributions to Egyptology, that would be another matter of course). Jwrosenzweig

Are parish councilors encyclopedic? - No

  • Rob Fenwick not clear that he was even elected. Is every local councillor going to get an entry (I was a parish councillor once, so think about this!) jimfbleak 17:10 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • I agree, dump it. A quick google search turns up dozens of Rob Fenwicks across the world, none of whom are that particular one (of the pages I've clicked through to anyway). --Delirium 18:04 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • There's probably only a sentence or two of verifiable information about him at this stage. They could go in Don Foster's article, maybe, but the connection is a little tenuous. Hmm. I'll think about it... -- Oliver P. 22:44 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Is a person whose death received nationwide attention encyclopedic? - Yes

See Talk:Jamie Murphy (soldier)

Should an artist from a non-English country that gets 163 Google hits be included? - Yes

Redirects

Should possible but rare typos be kept? - No

  • Espewranto
    • Eclecticology July 3, 2002, because : This mis-spelling is likely the result of a typo from hitting e and w at same time on keyboard; not every unsuccesful search merits an entry.
      • Toby Bartels, Wednesday, July 3, 2002 : I'm not sure that I agree. If a typo occurs once, then that strikes me as evidence that it will probably occur again. If storage capacity is not an issue to Misplaced Pages (and I don't know about that one way or another), then I would argue that every typo encountered in nature does merit a redirect.
    • Eclecticology July 6, 2002 : This is really a question of how much hand holding we can do. At some point the searcher has to accept responsibility for his own errors. I would make this distinction: In a spelling mistake the person simply does not know the correct spelling of a word, and, at least with some of the more predictable misspellings or illiterate usages such as irrevalent the user can probably benefit from a little help. In a typo the user likely knows the right spelling, but simply hit a wrong key on his keyboard. We all do that. We probably all soon recognize this error when it gives no results. "Espewranto" gave me a single hit on Google, and that was from a long portuguese language list of books for sale from a spiritist shop in Curitiba, Brazil where it could very well also have been a typo. In a bigger picture, by setting this kind of article that can be found with an internet search engine, we are giving these typos a presence and a life that they would otherwise never have had.
      • Toby Bartels, Saturday, July 6, 2002 : That's a reasonable point.

Should plurals with no links from the article space be kept? - Yes

  • Orcs
    • Ed Poor June 21, 2002, because : All "Orcs" links now changed to orc
      • I disagree. For one thing, there are talk links that have not been changed. But more importantly, this could well become a spontaneous link in the future. The redirect now is fine. — Toby Bartels, Friday, June 21, 2002
      • I disagree as well. I prefer to have names of mythological races in a plural version (e.g. Elves, Dwarves), and while in Orcs it's not strictly necessary (justifying a redirect to Orc), I prefer to keep the plural version as well. Uriyan, Friday, June 21,

2002.

Should the ancient CamelCase redirects be kept? - Yes

  • AbdicatioN -- a mere typo ? -- isis 21:57 Sep 17, 2002 (UTC)
    • No - not a typo. Once upon a time, when Misplaced Pages used much older software, all pages had wierd titles like this. They have all long since been given sensible names, but the old names still exist as redirects. There are thousands of redirects like that, and they do no harm - no need to delete. Enchanter
    • But nothing links to it anymore, so what reason for keeping it is there now? It may do no harm, but it doesn't do any good either. -- isis 19:43 Sep 21, 2002 (UTC)
      • It's possible that somebody may have linked to the page from an external website - deleting AbdicatioN will break that link. So then it still does no harm, but it does some good :) I think it should stay. --Camembert

Should CamelCase redirects that Google can find no links to be kept? - No

  • SurJection, nothing links to it. Redirects to surjection. Looks like its only reason for being is that someone might accidentally type the word with a capital `J' in the middle of it in the searchbox. Which I think is highly unlikely -- hawthorn
  • BiJection, the same. -- hawthorn
    • CamelCase artifact. It's useless in my view. Just clutter up search results and quite distracting at that. I realize that there are CamelCase Wikilinks actually wikilinked out there, but those 2 apparently aren't. I recommend deletion, although it's not urgent. --Menchi 04:53 26 Jun 2003 (UTC)
    • Looking at the page histories, both the above are remnants of the CamelCase days. What's the policy on those? —Paul A 04:49 26 Jun 2003 (UTC)
    • I used to favour keeping these redirects, but apathy has struck, so I can't be bothered to oppose their deletion any more. Apathy - the great enabler :) Martin 16:10 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
    • Google confirms that there are no links to these URLs anywhere on the visible web. Delete. The Anome 08:16 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Websites

Do 14 Google hits merit inclusion? - Yes

  • Puchland empty, history of junk jimfbleak
    • I object: page is being edited right now by a colleague. Puchland is an important Israeli online community, and desrevers inclusion in our enclyclopedia Rami Neudorfer
    • You want an encyclopedia article about a chatroom? Please. 14 Google hits - forget it. --Eloquence
    • The wikipedia has a broad span, but if it has any credibility you have to draw the line somewhere (sorry-I'm repeating myself) jimfbleak
    • The wikipedia has a broad span, so an important Jewish site such as Pucland should definetely be retained Greenfeld
      • Yeah, right. Strange that Google knows almost nothing about that "important Jewish site". Also strange that you wrote this edit under the nickname "Rami Neudorfer" while signing as "Greenfeld". --Eloquence 00:40 16 May 2003 (UTC)
    • The fact that the Puchland community is in Hebrew should NOT be a reason to remove the value Puchland because this community is an important Isreali society, whose members include pillars of the Israeli society. If Puchland is removed, whu not remove Rotary or Shriners???? Doron Levi
    • If Puchland goes, should the second definition in Pickle go too? Kingturtle 18:35 15 May 2003 (UTC)
      • The second definitiom for Pickle could have been put on the Puchland article itself IMO (this is a serious enyclopedia, after all) --Rotem Dan 01:18 16 May 2003 (UTC)
    • Never heard of P.U.C.H-land (or whatever) ,I gave a quick look on the site, it seems like somewhat a hebrew version of "trivia nerd slashdot" (forum, essays etc.) (though I don't think it's as popular to israeli "geeks" or whatever). Since there's an article for slashdot, I suggest leaving this.--Rotem Dan 00:54 16 May 2003 (UTC)
    • See Black Rose. If Puchland goes, Black Rose should also go. -- Zoe
    • Is this for real? When I saw it I felt like checking whether it was created on April fool's day. This is the sort of stuff that undermines wikipedia's position as a credible publication. What next? The world match-stick counting competition? This is trivial nonsense. BTW, just looked at Black Rose. Yuch as to what it is about. But it is a short well written stub about something that exists, in a given location. And I now know who not to join the next time I am in Washington. So it is fine, albeit distasteful. FearÉÍREANN 04:46 16 May 2003 (UTC)
    • Gave a second look, this is meaningless, I know (this is a chat-site for israeli trivia-loving teenagers), but so are the articles for Slashdot, Anonymous Coward, Slashdot trolling phenomena etc. The only thing valuable with these entries is that they attract contributors, these initially start with self-affirming, somewhat narssistic contributions, but later may start working on real articles (or not). Currently there's a shortage of israeli contributers, especially on articles related to israel, so every writer should be encouraged (this is a 100% political argument, I know). --Rotem Dan 14:22 16 May 2003 (UTC)
      • no teenager there - all responsible adults!
        • Well, whatever you say, I saw it's hosted by "Ort" which is a highschool, the site seems incomprehensible for (hebrew speaking) strangers, anyway. --Rotem Dan 15:40 16 May 2003 (UTC)
    • It has occured to me that the opposite action may also be benefitical. If you delete this then they understand this is a serious encyclopedia, not Everything2, H2G2, etc. so either action is possible, do whatever you like.. --Rotem Dan 14:17 16 May 2003 (UTC)
Note: This decision is incosistent with current practices and should probably be revisited

Do Wikis that have very low Alexa rankings merit inclusion? - Yes

See talk: Talk:Recyclopedia/Delete

Lists

Are lists where what is to be included difficult to define valid? - Yes

  • List of ethnic groups
    • I doubt this article will ever be useful due to the lack of any acceptable definition of what counts as an ethnic group. (i.e. my grandmother will punch anyone that calls her Italian, but few people actually recognize Sicilian as a distinct ethnic group and language.) The only direct link is ethnic group (a redirect) which should be an actual article IMHO. Tokerboy 04:29 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)
      • A link of perceived (if you will) ethnic groups is quite useful. When I read, Sicilian I want to be able to look it up on the list and see what it is referring too. Lir 05:14 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)
      • According to the Ethnologue, there are 6,800 main languages--virtually all of them (except sign languages, Esperanto, etc) are probably a distinct ethnic group. There are also 41,000 dialects, according to Ethnologue. If even 1/10 of them are also ethnic groups, we're talking about a list 10,000 long. It would be nice, but not feasible. Tokerboy 09:47 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)
      • That sounds like an argument against wikipedia altogether. Yet we already have 90,000+ articles... Lir 01:55 Nov 16, 2002 (UTC)
      • Why couldn't we try to work together on a fair, consensual, acceptable definition of "ethnic group"? I believe it will be perhaps hard, but not impossible. --G
        • I tried to start, please follow :-)

Are lists of trivia valid? - Yes

  • List of songs where the title does not appear in the lyrics (and related)
    • This is Everything2ish. While it might be fun, it's trivia and doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. Also, these lists will necessarily become overwhelmingly long when it's more than the pet bands of a few contributors; if people started adding in all of the songs from many different musical genres and locations. It's not like these songs are a rare occurence, anyway. DanKeshet 21:28 Mar 5, 2003 (UTC)
      • Who says trivia has no place in an encyclopedia, and who are you proposing should be the judege of what's trivial and what isn't? If you just have a look at the edit history of this article, you will see that a great many Wikipedians consider this a very interesting topic. Mkweise 21:42 Mar 5, 2003 (UTC)
        • I'm going by Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not #11: "List repository of loosely associated topics". As for who should be the judge, I'm not going to propose any new decision-making policy; I followed normal procedures and put it on votes for deletion for discussion. As for the fact that many people find it interesting, that is not and has never been one of the criteria for whether something stays in Misplaced Pages. Many people on Misplaced Pages find long, drawn-out debates interesting, but we try to discourage that stuff anyway, because this is an encyclopedia and not a debate forum. DanKeshet 22:08 Mar 5, 2003 (UTC)
    • Absolutely not - do not delete this list. It has seen ample contributors and is as suitable for an encylopedia as any other "list of" article.
    • I agree that this should be deleted. The moment I saw this article I burst out laughing. Some lists are useful but this is one step too far. It is irrelevant trivia that hardly belongs in an encyclopædia but some music magazine. What next? A list of left-handed rock stars? People with six toes? World leaders who dye their hair? JtdIrL 21:45 Mar 5, 2003 (UTC)
    • I see nothing wrong with the article. Im sure Jtdirl and Stevertigo-Zoe will soon reach a consensus. Susan Mason

Potentially Offensive topics

Are sexually explicit articles valid? - Yes

  • Fisting -- Do we really want to have an article about something like this? If so be advised that it will open up a whole slew of similar things. (206.156.242.36)
    • It may not be an attractive concept, but it exists so yes, we should have it here. ÉÍREman
    • Presumably, we should delete all sex-related entries except for missionary position? Martin 00:03 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
      • Not that I *want* to see an article deleted, and I'm no prude (I could tell you stories!); but if "fisting" is allowed, what about articles on "Reverse Cowgirl," or "Urination Fetishists"? Eventually, you'll start to wonder if they're being made up as jokes or if it's real. (And I assure you, the Urination Fetishists are quite real...there's even subgroups that pee on stuffed animas and the like.) So, what I think I'm trying to get at is this: is there a line, and where is it drawn?
      • Essentially there is not a line that's drawn on offensiveness. Just on quality of the entries. --The Cunctator

Are articles on hateful slogans valid? - No they should be redirected to a topic with a more neutral title

See:

Are articles on non-hateful slogans permissible? - Yes, but they must have the word slogan in the title

See: Talk:Slogan 'Jesus is Lord'/Delete and Talk:Slogan 'The science is settled'

Software

Is software used by fewer than 700 people encyclopedic? - Yes

See: Talk:MineSweeper3D

Note: this decision conflicts with current practice and should probably be reviewed

Other

Are personal reviews and commentaries encyclopedic? - No

  • O Brother, Where Art Thou/ReviewSummaries
    • Don't think that reviews should be in Misplaced Pages, inherently NPOV. Jeronimo
    • Agreed. I had this here before, but user:The Cunctator removed it. I forgot why. But glossing over a review and attributing it to the reviewer (e.g. Roger Ebert) is not the same as including the entire review as an "article" of its own. Collecting reviews is, IMO, not what we're here for. Relevant bits (if any) should be incorporated into the article for O Brother, Where Art Thou? and the rest discarded. --KQ

Is Internet culture encyclopedic? - Yes

  • You have two cows
    • Chain e-mail jokes, not an encyclopedia topic. Nate Silva 19:24 Sep 29, 2002 (UTC)
    • I disagree. I think it is a good example of the internet culture. If we had too many of those, ok. But is just that one (and maybe a few others i haven't seen.--AN 19:50 Sep 29, 2002 (UTC)
    • If it's an example of Internet culture, then, great, it should be attached as such, not as a free- standing entry.David de Paoli
    • This is a fine and relevant piece and an article which palpably demonstrates and links to many of the -isms on the display within it. user:sjc
    • An article on this kind of jokes is fine, and one or two examples are also fine, but this many is useless. It is impossible to list all such jokes here, and unnecessary as well. The article should tell something about this kind of joke, its history, importance and give some examples and perhaps external links such that you can find more of them. Jeronimo
    • I believe we should keep it here. As a matter of fact it is an internationally known scheme; it is humouristic, but it has attracted general interest worldwide, and this is what usually an encyclopedia reports. See also new introduction. --Gianfranco
      • This is a real encyclopedia article about a bit of Internet humor. It cleverly incorporates the humor into the article. With all the links in place, it is fine. Ortolan88
      • I would be all against deletion of this page, I think it is good. However, I still think that Misplaced Pages is not there as a depository of jokes, and as such, cropping the list might well be a good idea. Removing the page certainly isn't. Andre Engels
      • The article used to be a subpage of Internet humor. It has since been moved from its / page. I don't think it should be deleted. --Stephen Gilbert

Are source texts encyclopedic? - No

  • Washington's Farewell Address
    • This is original material and not an article about his speech. I think this is not what wikipedia is. -- JeLuF 22:20 Oct 8, 2002 (UTC)
    • I think this is useful, although I don't know the specific policy about this type of thing. In any case, it could easily be made into an article, but in my view such a speech has historical significance and fits in an encylopedia, but that's just my view. -- Ram-Man
    • I respectfully disagree -- having complete source material of this length is counter to our stated mission: we are an encyclopedia (hence we condense and summarize human knowledge, not regurgitate it), to be NPOV (hence we can't have POV material -- and a speech is inherently POV), we are a wiki (hence people should be able to edit and change material (therefore changing what GW said). Now having an article on the speech would be a very good thing. Then it would be appropriate to extract short passages for explanatory purposes (still not the best for a wiki but less material means there is less text to keep track of to make sure it is what he actually said). See What Misplaced Pages is not number 12. Hosting source material is not part of what we do here. This would make for a very interesting sister project (see m:Project Sourceberg). If we had such a sister project we could call up only certain lines and have those display in an uneditable box. Otherwise the entire speech would be at our sister site and just a click away. --mav

Are short almost useless stubs to be kept? - Yes

  • Pluto (god)
    • Food for thought: This was a vandal's nonsense, which was removed and replaced with a stub. But it's an awful stub. It's a single sentence that serves only as a definition. There's actually more content on the redirect page Pluto! This isn't the fault of the person that wrote the stub, really, because I wouldn't expect every vandal's nonsense to be replaced with a functioning stub. But I say that it's better to delete the page outright than put something that's worthless in. Yes, if you really write an article, then that's even better. But deleting is better than a mere definition. — Toby 02:08 Aug 15, 2002 (PDT)
    • The short version of this vote is: Misplaced Pages is not a dictionary. — Toby
    • I vote against deleting it. There's no need to delete stubs. See also my note at Misplaced Pages talk:Misplaced Pages policy on permanent deletion of pages - Jeronimo.
      • The reason is that seeing a live link to in the article gives the impression that has been written, which in this case was not true. (Well, it was written at Hades, so I redirected it there. But the principle remains.) should also appear on Special:Wantedpages, which can't happen if a worthless stub is there. A page can definitely do more harm than good if it makes readers more likely to follow a useless link, or makes writers less likely to write a new needed page. If I can't write a good stub (see point 5 in particular), then I'd rather not have one at all, for these reasons — Toby 02:35 Aug 15, 2002 (PDT)
    • Don't delete it, but I don't think it needs to be much more than a redirect to Hades; I started trying to add content and then realised that I was just trying to rewrite that page with Greek->Roman name changes. --Bth

Are How-Tos encyclopedic? - Yes

  • How to demonstrate osmosis with eggs and How to demonstrate osmosis with potato slices
    • For obvious reasons, I hope. (sign your name please!)
    • Could do with a rename & rewrite, but I don't see a problem -- Tarquin 19:01 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)
    • As the initial author of how to demonstrate osmosis with eggs ] I can't see what your obvious reasons are. If you'd be kind enough to spell them out explicitly I could defend the page better but: here goes anyhow. Osmosis is an important topic and IMO experiments that demonstrate the principle liven up the topic. This is a particularly simple experiment, which any potential reader who has an interest in osmosis can perform. In writing the article I was guided by the Misplaced Pages:How-topage which states that instructions for doing things are suitable for wikipedia even if they do not ordinarily occur in a paper encyclopaedia. Theresa knott 20:12 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)
    • I'm not really in favour of these kinds of articles. The next thing you know we'll be getting how to boil an egg and how to light your farts. Mintguy 23:34 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)
    • I have no problem with howtos, they can be both informative and fun. Although how to light your farts would probably need a safety disclaimer and/or a link to how to find your local burns unit in a hurry. Seriously, if the osmosis things are real articles, why would we delete them? Puzzled, Nevilley 23:45 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)
    • I am against howtos on Misplaced Pages, because it is very hard to write them in an NPOV-compliant way. The existing ħow-tos demonstrate this very well. The original author usually has a particular idea how to do a certain thing and does not care to supply or research alternatives. Moreso, an NPOV HOWTO would probably read terrible ("Do this .. but you could also do this. Some people suggest doing that first. But if you do that first, the order of the following steps has to be reversed, at least according to some people .." etc.) --Eloquence 04:22 Feb 27, 2003 (UTC)

More at: Misplaced Pages talk:How-to articles

Are conspiracy theories valid topics? - Yes

  • Bush family conspiracy theory - for all the rewrites this is still a ludicrously paranoid fantasist's dream article. It is neither encylopædic nor NPOV just some garbled wacky theories from those who believe the Bush family should really be renamed the 'Antichrist' family. The fact that after various attempts by competent contributors it is still bordering on the looney suggests this is an article that deserves the bin or its own page on the 'nutty conspiracies' website, not a page in a credible encyclopædia. (The fact that it has me defending the Bush family is indicative of how nutty the page is, for I am not exactly a fan of the political version of the Brady Bunch!) FearÉIREANN 02:33 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)
    • As it stands now this article doesn't seem to me to be anything like as bad as you are making out, Jtdirl. These conspiracy theories certainly exist, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to have an article about them. Maybe it needs some work, but then which articles don't? I vote to keep it. GrahamN 13:17 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)
    • Looks okay to me. I say keep it. -- Wapcaplet 13:44 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)
    • Not only is this a widely held and common theory, its also true. Keep it. Pizza Puzzle
      • It isn't widely held, it is not a common theory, stating it is true is POV and the article at present in paranoid rubbish. If it is worth keeping (and I very much doubt it is) then it needs a fundamental rewrite, major NPOVing and dramatic culling. As it stands it is a paranoid joke. FearÉIREANN 21:03 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)
    • I really don't think it is appropriate to infer that I am "paranoid" for believing such "rubbish". Just because you support Bush, doesn't mean everybody does. And yes, we have very "paranoid" reasons why we don't support him. Pizza Puzzle
    • As an actual US resident, I can state authoritatively that various conspiracy theories are indeed widespread among the Democrats, and it should be Misplaced Pages's duty to at least list the claims and the factual tidbits on which they're based, as well as the other facts tending to discredit. It's hard to find NPOV writeups on many of the theories, this is the kind of thing that would make Misplaced Pages stand out on the web. For instance, my wife the Bush-hater hears some of these theories from her friends, and I'm always wishing for an objective source that explains the situation. Stan 21:26 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Are towns with a population of 1 encyclopedic? - Yes

  • Ervings, New Hampshire
  • New Amsterdam, Indiana
  • Hibberts, Maine
  • Lost Springs, Wyoming
    • places with a population of one. Not encyclopedic.
      • How are these so much different from the places with a population of 0, 2, 3, etc.? Twombly, Maine could easily become a town with 1 person, if someone moves out. The above might become a town with 0 people. I think these are pretty interesting articles to have (though hard to keep accurate). -- Wapcaplet 01:54 15 Jun 2003 (UTC)
      • Keep 'em. Are the articles about places with no people (eg Gulf City, Florida) okay, and places with two acceptible, but not one? Why is it not "not encyclopedic"? They are harmless, and if anyone ever comes across some reference to one of those places and wants to find out something, possibly usefull to someone. -- Infrogmation 05:19 15 Jun 2003 (UTC)
        • I see absolutely no reason to remove these places. Misplaced Pages is not paper, we don't have a problem with space, why not let them stay? -- Zoe

Should Misplaced Pages duplicate the work of other sites like IMDb? -Yes

I suggest that all articles about movies and tv shows be scrapped, and instead have the links point to the apropriate page on the Internet Movie Database. www.imdb.com Their database is already amazingly thorough, and appears to be around to stay. No point in rewriting copious amounts of information which already exists in a well organized form elsewhere Vroman 23:12 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

  1. Descriptions at IMDB don't link back to other related articles on Misplaced Pages (such as interesting locations, years, film technologies, and people other than cast and crew)
  2. IMDB's license is restrictive
  3. IMDB data won't be directly available in an offline edition of Misplaced Pages
  4. IMDB is available in English only (and possibly partially in Italian and German, though the links don't work), so that wouldn't help the many other languages Misplaced Pages is available in.
It's certainly appropriate to link to IMDB for additional information, but it doesn't replace free, integrated descriptions. --Brion 23:37 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)
There is never a good reason to delete perfectly good material from the Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages isn't paper. We can create perfectly good NPOV articles, something IMDB doesn't even try to accomplish. -- Zoe
I agree with keeping those articles. If we have a britannica, why do we want a different one from scratch. -- Taku 00:10 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Agreed, no reason to delete any of them. Forever free, not tied to any commercial concern, etc. etc. One thing that could certainly be said about Misplaced Pages's articles on movies and TV shows, though, is that they would benefit from some standardization (especially in terms of the nice things that IMDB does, such as links on all cast and crew), but that'd be hard to implement in the Misplaced Pages format (since we prefer linking on commonly-used names; disambiguation would be a nightmare for larger collections). A wiki devoted just to movies and TV shows would not be a bad thing. We're probably not there yet, though. -- Wapcaplet 00:58 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Ok, I see your point. Would it be possible to write a bot that would automatically translate IMDB pages into wiki articles, like the city pages from census data? Vroman 09:51 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)
No, because IMDb is copyright, and they are unlikely to license their content under GFDL any time soon. -- Tim Starling 10:17 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)
we could bot-ify their filmography lists, since they are plain data and not copyright as such. But please, anyone who does this: reverse the lists into forward chronological order when you do this, ie oldest first, newest at the foot of the list, so it reads in the same order as other chronologies on Misplaced Pages -- Tarquin 10:34 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I'm afraid not - lists are copyright too. The moment you organise data into a list (for example, in alphabetical order) the list can be copyright. What we really need is a boilerplate layout for film pages. CGS 17:56 2 Jun 2003 (UTC).
I don't think that is correct. Lists are only under copyright if there is some creative process in either selecting or ordering them. Putting things into alphabetical order is just about the least creative way to order them, and as such does not fall under copyright. Alphabetical lists, chronological lists etcetera are not under copyright, unless either the items in the list are, or the collection is. Andre Engels 16:34 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Are common household objects deserving of articles? - Yes

  • Cooking pan. It is hardly an encyclopædia topic, the article is a barely encyclopædic stub, the item in question is called a frying pan (or, if referring to something else (quite what he is referring to is unclear, a cooking pot.) Are we really going to have pages of cooking utensils now? It sound like it belongs in a cooking dictionary, not here. (This seems to be one of a number of cooking utensils entries this user seems to be creating, BTW) FearÉIREANN 00:43 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • And how is it that cooking pans are less important than, say, altar rails? There is actually quite a lot to say about cooking utensils, and they actually matter to me, unlike altar rails which are utterly irrelevant. And speaking as an amateur classicist, I can say that researchers today really really wish Varro and the Suda had seen fit to say more about the mundane items of everyday life in ancient times. Stan 04:16 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • Your agenda as always is hilarious, Stan FearÉIREANN 06:16 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • I support cooking utensils on Misplaced Pages (see Talk for reasons) Martin 18:21 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Are articles on specific polls valid? - Yes

  • 100 Worst Britons I am not going to argue the case. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 00:28 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)
    • Discussion moved to Talk:100 Worst Britons. Summary: Jtdirl defended the lists as being "compiled in valid surveys by reputable media organisations that were the subject of major public debate", and KF agreed. SimonP pointed out that they were "basically primary sources". I brought up the matter that the lists might be copyrighted by their compilers, but Jtdirl dismissed this, saying, "There are no copyright issues with these polls." -- Oliver P. 07:09 10 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Is a religion with a web-site but no other proof of existence encyclopedic? - Yes

See Talk:Yoism, Talk:Brianism

Are articles on non-standard theories and pseudoscience encyclopedic? - Yes, but they must be neutral and reasonably short

See Talk:Reciprocal System of Theory/Archive 1 and Talk:Reciprocal System of Theory/Delete

Are 'year in' articles for individual countries valid? - Yes

See

Should stubs on individual characters or episodes of television shows be kept? No, they should be merged into one article

Are high schools encyclopedic? - Yes

See Talk:Lake Clifton Eastern High School

Are articles on 9/11 victims encyclopedic - No

See talk: Template:VfD-911victims

See also: