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User:Herschelkrustofsky

I would like to block Herschelkrustofsky (talk · contribs) for violation of LaRouche 1, LaRouche 2, and Nobs01, which placed him on indefinite probation and prohibited him from making edits related to Lyndon LaRouche.

He recently engaged in an edit war at Synarchism, deleting or modifying criticism of LaRouche six times over a couple of days. I left a note on his talk page warning him that his edits were a violation of the arbcom rulings.

wHe stopped editing the article, but yesterday left a note for another LaRouche activist, BirdsOfFire (talk · contribs), asking him to make the edits instead, which BirdsOfFire did a few hours later, even though he's only an occasional editor (90 edits in four months.) I see Herschelkrustofsky's use of BirdsOfFire, whether as a sockpuppet or meatpuppet, as a violation of the ruling and of his probation, and I'd therefore like to block Herschel for three days and reset the ban on LaRouche-related editing. Other input would be much appreciated. I've pasted the pertinent rulings below. SlimVirgin 03:09, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd suggest getting an immediate ip check on BirdsOfFire because if it is indeed a sock (as the patterns appear to be the same and the infrequency of the BirdsOfFire edits seem to suggest) then indef. block... I would also suggest bringing this back up to the arbcom if this continues for potential re-evaluation of the ruling to see if an indef. ban might be needed for Herschelkrustofsky. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pegasus1138 (talk • contribs)

• CheckUser confirms both userids are using the same IP ranges. Jayjg 03:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Jay and Pegasus. I've blocked BirdsOfFire indefinitely as a sockpuppet and I'm going to block Herschel for three days and reset the ban. Cheers, SlimVirgin 04:05, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I've also banned Herschel from editing Synarchism in accordance with Nobs01 and Misplaced Pages:Probation. SlimVirgin 05:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok, at this point it may be worth it to ask the arbcom to revisit the ruling since Hershcel has repeatedly violated the ruling and has created numerous sockpuppets to try to get around it, though for the love of me I don't see how anyone can be so obsessed about Lyndon Larouche to purposefully violate 5 or 6 major guidelines at a time trying to POV skew the article about him. Pegasus1138 ---- 05:47, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

This is getting absurd. I don't mind spending time or conceding points to get articles right, but it ticks me off when it turns out that other editors are pulling stunts that make the job more difficult or that take advantage of the system. The aggressive POV pushing by HK and (what have turned out to be) his puppets is an abuse consensus and of our open editing. In previous ArbCom cases HK could argue that he aided the project on topics unrelated (or barely-related) to LaRouche, like classical music, but recently he has only worked on LaRouche-related articles. I don't think that anopther ArbCom case is needed - the previous cases included addtional enforcement procedures that we just need to follow. -Will Beback 06:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

1. I use one computer only. No one else has access to this computer. It automatically logs on to this screen name, and I never log off this screen name. SlimVirgin's accusations of sockpuppetry are an entirely fraudulent and dishonest vehicle for pushing her POV. As far as IP ranges are concerned, I access the internet from an AOL account in the Los Angeles area; there may well be a few dozen other Misplaced Pages editors who are using these IP ranges as you read this post.

I don't know what the IP addresses are, but I'm guessing they're the same ones that were identified during LaRouche 2 that seemed to have been used by you and at least one of the other LaRouche accounts. In my view, it's more than a cooincidence that another person using AOL in Los Angeles uses the same two IP ranges, edits the same articles from the same LaRouche POV, and even though he hasn't edited in days is there within hours to revert to your version after you ask him to on his talk page. Of course, that doesn't mean you're necessarily the same person; it could be another member of the LaRouche movement that you use as a back-up, but that counts as sockpuppetry for the purposes of LaRouche 2. I don't see what difference it makes, in terms of your probation, whether you're physically making LaRouche edits or asking someone else to. SlimVirgin 21:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You have made accusations of sockpuppetry, and yet you "don't know what the IP addresses are"; you're "guessing." I would like Jayjg to come forward and reveal the IP addresses involved, in order to take the guesswork out of this. But then you say that it doesn't really matter, that BirdsOfFire is a "member of the LaRouche movement" anyway. Well, he says he isn't on his talk page, and you routinely brand anyone that gets in your a way a "LaRouche activist." You say that I "asked BirdsOfFire to make the edits instead"; my words on his talk page were "I wanted to call your attention to another article, Synarchism, which the Berlet crowd is attempting to convert into a soapbox." Since we are talking about further admin sanctions against my editing, I think that you ought to have the decency to come up with some real evidence, instead of a bunch of half-truths.--HK 23:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

2. The article Synarchism has not historically been regarded as a "LaRouche article"; it does not appear on the "LaRouche template," and I did not add material about LaRouche to this article. User:172, in collusion with User:Will Beback, began adding original research, in the form of gratuitous and irrelevant misrepresentations of LaRouche's ideas, to the article, and I objected. SlimVirgin and her cohorts designate articles as "LaRouche related" at their pleasure, just as they designate any editor who questions her tactics as a "LaRouche activist" (as SlimVirgin did BirdsOfFire in this instance, or as Will Beback designated User:Northmeister after that user disagreed with him on the talk page of American System (economics).)

What counts as an article closely related to LaRouche is up to the administrator, and these edits were about LaRouche. SlimVirgin 21:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

3. Likewise, re-setting my ban for yet another year, based on spurious charges of sockpuppetry, should be regarded as an example of SlimVirgin's underhanded Nacht und Nebel tactics at their worst. I will emphasize in closing that SlimVirgin and Will Beback are not disinterested Misplaced Pages admins, merely trying to bring order and make the trains of Misplaced Pages run on time. They are both impassioned anti-LaRouche activists. One of SlimVirgin's first interventions into Misplaced Pages was the creation of the attack article Jeremiah Duggan, which is basically a mirror for the Justice for Jeremiah website, created by Chip Berlet and the usual gang. Will Beback obsessively compiles lists (see User:Will Beback/LaRouche topics) of every article ever edited by myself, or by other editors that he has designated as "LaRouche editors." The two of them constantly compare notes, and they are generally comically misinformed about the objects of their vendetta (see this example.)The actions taken against me by these two, under color of enforcing ArbCom decisions, are POV warfare, scantily disguised as administrative action. --HK 20:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You've tried many times to tar me with the label "anti-LaRouche activist." If that were true, I'd have rushed to the LaRouche pages to delete your pro-LaRouche edits as soon as you were banned, but in fact I've hardly looked at them. My interest is only in making sure you don't introduce even more POV, and that you abide by the terms of the arbcom rulings. SlimVirgin 21:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

There is a division of labor here; slanting the LaRouche articles in a defamatory way (in violation of WP:BLP) is Cberlet's job, with some assistance from 172. Your job is to bite the newcomers, bullying them and threatening to ban them (or simply banning them outright, as you did BirdsOfFire,) combined with frequent reverts with no edit summaries. Will Beback wikistalks and harasses anyone who objects. However, your credentials as an anti-LaRouche activist were already established in your first month at Misplaced Pages, when you authored the attack article Jeremiah Duggan. Although I know of no Misplaced Pages policy that says you should recuse yourself from the use of admin powers in controversies where you play such a partisan role, I should think that common decency would dictate that you do so. --HK 23:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The 23:45, 3 April 2006 post on this page by Herschelkrustofsky (talk · contribs) (see above) is a personal attack on four longtime Misplaced Pages editors: SlimVirgin, Cberlet, Will Beback, and me. In summary, Herschelkrustofsky is accusing Cberlet and me of 'defamation' of Lyndon LaRouche, SlimVirgin of writing bad-faith "attack artilce" related to the tragic death of Jeremiah Duggan, and Will Beback of "wikistalking." The attacks violate Herschelkrustofsky's arbcom probation stemming from the Nobs and others decision. According to the most recent arbcom ruling, if Herschelkrustofsky is disrupting the functioning of Misplaced Pages by making the personal attacks such as the ones posted above, admins are supposed to note the following:

Herschelkrustofsky is placed indefinitely on Misplaced Pages:Probation. If in the opinion of any three administrators, for good cause, he is responsible for disrupting the functioning of Misplaced Pages, restrictions may be placed on his editing, up to and including a general ban of one year. Each restriction imposed shall be documented and explained in a section at the bottom of Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Nobs01 and others. Should any period of one year pass without any such restriction being imposed, Herschelkrustofsky's probation shall automatically end.

Arbcom rulings are meaningless unless admins enforce them. If Herschelkrustofsky is causing disruption on the administrators' noticeboard, the arbcom instructs admins to block him for up to one year for disregarding his probation. 172 | Talk 02:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should propose an enforcement in this case, pursuant to the ArbCom's rulings. -Will Beback 18:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I would like to request a review (by unbiased, third party administrators) of SlimVirgin's actions in blocking me and re-setting the one year ban. BirdsOfFire is not my sockpuppet, and I would like to see some sort of evidence that would justify SlimVirgin's actions, other than her own POV agenda. I would likewise like to request a review of Will Beback's actions in blocking me and re-setting my ban on September 30 of 2005, after he had initiated an edit war at the article American System (economics). I had not added material on LaRouche or his ideas to this article since the time of the first LaRouche Arbcom decision, although other editors (including Will Beback) have subsequently done so. Will Beback professes to hold the singular point of view that the entire school of economic thought known as the American System is a "LaRouche concept" . Will abused his admin powers by misrepresenting my edits to this article; he insisted that a reference to the Centennial Exposition represented "material which relates to Lyndon LaRouche," a fanciful theory which I regard as an entirely illegitimate reading of the ArbCom decision. Since Will re-set my one year ban in September of last year on the basis of this theory, other editors have begun working on this article, and the section which was disputed by Will Beback has been restored, not by myself, but by consensus of those editing the article. --HK 00:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

HK, you have pushed an unusual POV into several articles recently in a disruptive manner, exactly the behavior for which you have been thrice-chastened by the ArbCom. Lyndon LaRouche has eclectic interests, and so many articles are involved that it would be ineffective to block each individually. Therefore, rather than blocking a small number of articles for a long period, I think that a shorter general ban is more apt. The ArbCom has asked any three admins to agree to parole enforcements, and authorizes bans of up to a year. In this instance I propose a general ban of one month. The community has decided repeatedly that it is not going to promulgate ideosyncratic ideologies on the same basis as common wisdom. -Will Beback 08:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Will Beback is now charging me with having "pushed an unusual POV in a disruptive manner." Even if this accusation were warranted (and made in good faith,) I believe that I would still be within my rights to ask that these accusations be examined by neutral administrators who are not party to the long-standing conflict between myself and SlimVirgin/Will Beback. I contend that these two are attempting to misuse the arbcom rulings as a tactic in POV pushing; if these accusations against me were coming from other admins with no ideological axe to grind, they would carry considerably greater weight. SlimVirgin/Will Beback are attempting to establish a tautology whereby I am designated a "LaRouche editor," therefore any article I edit becomes "LaRouche related" (this is the essential basis for Will Beback's list,) and consequently any edit that I make violates the arbcom rulings, ipso facto. Any editor who agrees with me then becomes a "meat puppet," and may be banned by SlimVirgin without warning or explanation. I hope that there are some admins reading this who can see how harmful to Misplaced Pages it can be, if these tactics by SlimVirgin/Will Beback go unchallenged. --HK 15:22, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

What the Herschelkrustofsky rulings say

• (Nobs01) Herschelkrustofsky is placed indefinitely on Misplaced Pages:Probation. If in the opinion of any three administrators, for good cause, he is responsible for disrupting the functioning of Misplaced Pages, restrictions may be placed on his editing, up to and including a general ban of one year."
• (LaRouche 2)"Herschelkrustofsky is restricted to one account for editing. All other accounts showing the same editing patterns are to be blocked indefinitely."
• "Herschelkrustofsky is placed on POV parole for up to and including one year. If he re-inserts any edits which are judged by a majority of those commenting on the relevant talk page in a 24-hour poll to be a violation of the NPOV policy, then he shall be temp-banned for a short time, up to one week. Repeat deletions of text, similarly judged to result in a violation of NPOV, shall be treated in the same way."
• "Herschelkrustofsky is banned from editing any article relating to Lyndon LaRouche for up to and including one year. If he edits any LaRouche-related article, he may be blocked for up to one week by any administrator. Administrators may use their discretion in determining what constitutes a LaRouche-related article. The prohibition against inserting La Rouche material into other articles remains in effect."
• "If, in the judgement of any administrator, Herschelkrustofsky or any user who is considered a sockpuppet of Hershelkrustofsky edits any article which relates to Lyndon LaRouche or inserts material which relates to Lyndon LaRouche into any other article he may be banned for up to one week. Any ban shall reset the one-year ban on editing LaRouche related articles and the ban on inserting LaRouche material into unrelated articles ..."
• (LaRouche1) "Supporters of Lyndon LaRouche are instructed not to add references to Lyndon directly to articles except where they are highly relevant, and not to engage in activities that might be perceived as 'promotion' of Lyndon LaRouche." z

Pro-Lick/Halliburton Shill, sockpuppetry and disruption

Halliburton_Shill (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was blocked for an inappropriate user name, and his user page was deleted as an attack page. He had been involved briefly in the Abortion article. As he was blocked for his user name, rather than for misconduct, he was free to return under a new identity, and I suspected very soon that Pro-Lick (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was Halliburton Shill under a new name, with the same POV, the same rudeness towards people who opposed his POV, and the same habit of deleting other editors' comments from his talk page.

Pro-Lick began to edit war, violated 3RR several times (generally in his effort to remove "death" from the definition of abortion), and inserted extraordinarily POV edits into the abortion article. See for example, this (which he put in after I had said on the talk page that the word "death" doesn't imply that the fetus is human, and that I had recently taken antibiotics to kill an infection, and which is probably a violation of WP:POINT), and this. He was disruptive on the talk page as well, inserting links to comics and cartoons designed to ridicule the opposing POV.

He was blocked earlier this week for 3RR. During the block, some new users began to revert to his version. It was reported at WP:RFCU, and Essjay found that AbortMe (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Cry_Me_a_Shill (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and Vote_Machine_Malfunction (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) were the same user as Halliburton Shill and Pro-Lick. There was also technical evidence strongly suggesting that Undermined (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Ban.wma (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) were connected to the Pro-Lick sockpuppets. Another suspected sockpuppet, Curettage (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) started editing after the check was run, and so there are no results for that editor.

Despite being reset a few times, Pro-Lick's block expired today, and he edited his user page to link to his blog. The blog encourages people to come and disrupt Misplaced Pages, and to edit war.

Thursday 30 March

And speaking of spying extremists ... if you're looking for some interactive fun, head over to Misplaced Pages's entry on Abortion. Only need to make up a username and password to sign-up. In return, you get to edit any entries you like, your own user page, and a chat page.

They are having a fit over me in their little chat area. I am Pro-Lick, BTW. They didn’t like my other name. Apparently in their quest to put their enemy to death, they’ve been accusing other users of being me and banning them.

Make the definition beautiful. You'll get plenty of funny messages in return. There are some real-life religious fanatics trying hard to control the content, and any changes that don't include "death" drive them into a frenzy.

Some suggestions:

• Abortion liberates the uterus.
• Abortion is like a shower for the uterus.
• Abortion cleanses the uterus of bio-contaminants.
• Abortion is fertilization for flowers.
• Abortion frees the uterus of extremist elements.
• Abortion liberates the female from imposed pregnancy.
• Abortion liberates the female from a pregnant dictatorship.

I’ll stop by tonight some time and contribute. Enjoy yourselves and don’t take them seriously. Don’t respond (unless you want to prod them a bit further). Like the supreme court, none of them actually listen. You get 3 changes per 24 hours on any article, so you can switch your changes back twice if someone undoes them. Then you can move on to the pro-life entry and make changes on it, and so on. Narf.

Some of those suggestions have found their way into edits in the last two days:

Annalina (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log):

• edit summary: a beautiful def; edit: An abortion liberates the female from a pregnant ]].
• edit summary: another beautiful def; edit: An abortion cleanses the uterus of bio-contaminants.
• edit summary: grammar fix; edit: An abortion liberates the uterus.
• edit summary: refine; edit: An abortion is the termination of the gestation of an embryo or fetus, liberating the womb of terrorist organisms that threaten the woman's life.

64.42.88.22 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

• edit summary: beautify definition; edit: An abortion is fertilization for flowers.

It's impossible to believe that this isn't deliberate disruption and trolling, and it is very clear that these edits either come directly from Pro-Lick or at least through him. I don't want to have to request a new user check every 24 hours, and I'd appreciate some help in dealing with this. Perhaps some other admins could keep an eye on Pro-Lick's behaviour and edits. I feel that Annalina should be blocked, for disruption and for being either a sockpuppet or a meatpuppet of Pro-Lick, but I'm heavily involved in the article myself and have the opposite POV. I do not think that those edits could be just innocent, misguided NPOV violations, especially as some are taken verbatim from Pro-Lick's blog. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. AnnH ♫ 20:52, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Update: another edit from Annalina a few minutes ago changed the definition of abortion to:

An abortion liberates the uterus from an oppressive fetal regime.

The edit summary was: "an attempt to beautify the writing".

This is not just a content dispute: this is consistent with what Pro-Lick was calling for on his blog — that people would join Misplaced Pages and change the definition of abortion to something like the examples quoted above. AnnH ♫ 23:08, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I have been banned for a week (and have learned my lesson) over much less than this crap that pro-lick is pulling. Good 23:49, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. - RoyBoy 04:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I've been busy IRL and have not been keeping as close an eye on this article as I usually do; I intend to immediately block anyone making this type edit if I see it, for disruption. If anyone disagrees, of course they are welcome to unblock and tell me how wrong I am. KillerChihuahua 10:30, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Any suspected socks should continue to be reported at RFCU, as a check of one tends to turn up several others. I don't remember the ISP off the top of my hands, but I think a rangeblock could be considered without too much collateral damage if the sockpuppetry continues. Essjay 22:17, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I hae blocked Pro-Lick because of his continuing disruptive behavior (inviting other people to disrupt Misplaced Pages is just the most recent), but I have been questioned about this by a couple of other editors, so have brought it here. If somebody wants to unblock him, I will not object, but I think he deserves to remain blocked until he agrees to stop the disruption. User:Zoe| 17:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is the first I've looked at any of this, but that sort of invitation to vandalize, combined with active vandalizing, seems entirely appropriate to block on sight. · Katefan0/poll 17:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I would block on sight anyone who inserts any of the phrases mentioned. --kingboyk 17:51, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I was very tempted to block Annalina, when I saw those edits, but was a bit uncomfortable doing so, as I edit that article and hold the opposite point of view. A more recent user check has confirmed that Curettage is definitely a Pro-Lick sockpuppet. Essjay's comments concerning Annalina were: "As for Annalina, if it smells like HS/PL it probably is, but the checkuser is inconclusive. There is, however, a vandal sock farm coming off that IP, mixed in with some legitimate editing." As far as I know, Annalina is the only editor with a known or suspected connection to Pro-Lick who is not currently blocked.

And by the way, I fully endorse Zoe's block of Pro-Lick. I have edited collaboratively with many Wikipedians who had opposite POVs from mine, but this is just disruption, trolling, and vandalism, with no intention to respect Misplaced Pages policy. AnnH ♫ 18:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I fully support blocking on sight any editors who make those edits you cited above, Ann. If Annalina makes another bad-faith edit, and I see it, a book will be thrown. Zoe's block of Pro-Lick seems to me entirely appropriate, under Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy#Users who exhaust the community's patience. I've received an email from Pro-lick asking me to review that block (as, I suspect, have many admins). I replied on his/her talk page that I'm willing to support an unblock based on a convincing show of good faith - for which I'm not holding my breath. Naturally I still wouldn't unblock without input from others, including Zoe, the blocking admin. -GTBacchus 21:58, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I could have held my breath. Pro-Lick and I have exchanged emails, and I'm ready to support unblocking the account, and to unblock it or reduce the block myself based on our communication. I feel that Pro-Lick has expressed an understanding that hir behavior has crossed lines, a willingness to adapt and edit more cooperatively, and a desire to help with the project, evidenced by examples of better-faith editing shortly before the block. I've notified Zoe, and I'm also posting here, so if anyone has any concerns... -GTBacchus 06:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I've told GT that I have no objections to an unblock. User:Zoe| 19:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I will state frankly that I am not at all happy at the thought of Pro-Lick being unblocked. First of all, his/her blog still has that part encouraging people to come to Misplaced Pages and change the abortion definition to things like "abortion is fertilization for flowers" and to "get three reverts" every day, etc. Before I could approve of unblocking him, I would like to see some evidence that he realizes how inappropriate it was to make those edits, and I would like him to remove that section from his blog. Has he admitted to having used sockpuppets? I don't mean the Halliburton Shill = Pro-Lick, since he was entirely free to choose a new name and under no obligation to reveal that he was the same person. I don't want him to grovel, and I realize this might sound like making humiliating demands of a prisoner of war! But is there any indication at all that he sees his past behaviour as wrong or is he just hoping to be unblocked so that he can game the system and see how much he can get away with?

However, although I want to state that I'm not happy (so that it won't later be said that it was posted here and nobody objected), I will not oppose if GTBacchus really decides to unblock. I consider him to be one of the fairest of all the admins, and I have seen him treating leniently people who oppose his POV, so I shouldn't complain if I think he's over lenient to someone who opposes mine. :-) I have avoided blocking Pro-Lick and his sockpuppets myself mainly I have strong views in complete opposition to Pro-Lick's, although I try to respect NPOV. (If it weren't for that, Annalina would certainly be blocked by now!) So this is just my opinion. I object to the unblocking, but I support GTBacchus's right to use his own judgment, and am positive that he'll re-block if necessary. AnnH ♫ 20:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Ann. I don't expect that unblocking Pro-Lick is a move that will make everyone happy, but I'm trusting what was said in our email communication - that this user understands that it's necessary to adapt and edit differently than they have previously. I think it's been made clear to Pro-Lick that just exasperating enough Wikipedians is a perfectly bannable offense, and that our Blocking policy says as much. I'm not too concerned about admissions of sock-puppetry as I am about the user's future behavior, which I'm sure will receive plenty of administrative attention. If Pro-Lick resumes being disruptive and uncivil, and doesn't display an improved editing style, then I will certainly not oppose any admin's reblocking, and may even do it myself.

I'd like to specifically address your question, "is there any indication at all that he sees his past behaviour as wrong or is he just hoping to be unblocked so that he can game the system and see how much he can get away with?" I'm not prepared to share the contents of any email without the sender's consent, but I'm comfortable saying that I'm satisfied that Pro-Lick sees that the editing style employed so far has been beyond "bold" and across the line into "dickish". Also, Pro-Lick has indicated a willingness to adapt to the community's standards, and adopt a less combative and more cooperative editing style. If it turns out I'm being overly naïve, and letting a troll back in, then it's here for everyone to see - I'll be the one who was wrong.

I request that all of us give Pro-Lick a renewed assumption of good faith now, and show the same patience and helpfulness that we would anyone who is yet unfamiliar with our customs and culture. I'm eager for Pro-Lick to see how positive an experience it can be, editing Misplaced Pages in a spirit of cooperation and respect, but that'll take a little bit of un-learning and re-learning, which we who are more experienced can really help with. -GTBacchus 21:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, GTBacchus. I see that you have now unblocked, and I'm certainly prepared to accept that and to give him (as you requested) a renewed assumption of good faith. I agree with you that admission of sockpuppetry is of far less importance than future behaviour. I do feel, however, that he should be prepared to remove from his blog the section where he encourages people to come and vandalize Misplaced Pages. Someone else has already made that point on his talk page, and I fully agreed; but I felt it would be counterproductive for me to post a message there saying the same thing! AnnH ♫ 23:00, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

GNAA 11th nomination

How long will it take before I am RFCed for cutting this AFD debate short? Also, I don't really think the nominator is a newbie at all, is it possible to get a check on who it is? Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

RFC for that? I wouldn't think so. Much as I would like to see the article deleted, it was kept at the end of March for the 10th time. There has to come a point when new listings are just disruption. --kingboyk 15:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Coudl be a User:Science3456 sock. He has edited Gay Nigger Association of America before, and AfD disruption is his thing. His user name, user page and the edits to Laundrymat seem to back this up. —Ruud 17:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Well who knows, we may just have the 20th nom this year (but hopefully not). - Mailer Diablo 17:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone's going to really fault people for speedy closing GNAA nominations at this point. I've done it myself (the 10th I think?) Personally I think we should just delete the obvious bad faith nominations of GNAA, so as to cut down on the self-aggrandization factor. --W.marsh 18:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

At this point, I think it would have to be Jimbo himself nominating GNAA for it not to be speedy kept. --Deathphoenix ʕ 02:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Well I wish he would! Maybe I shall go over and suggest it to him :) --kingboyk 22:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Deleting the lolicon picture

After weighty consideration, I have deleted the inappropriate picture that resided at Lolicon. I put my justification on the mailing list: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2006-April/043119.html. As I say in that email, I am extremely reluctant to bypass policy in this way. Nevertheless, I make no apology for actually deleting the image when it was so clearly appropriate. Sam Korn 18:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Good move. People wanting child porn can look elsewhere than Misplaced Pages. --Ryan Delaney 18:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Are people wanting child porn really going to seek out, and be satisfied with, a Japanese cartoon rather than real pictures? *Dan T.* 23:33, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You'd be surprised. Ashibaka tock 23:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

As someone who participated for a long time at Talk:Lolicon (but withdrew recently due to it causing me far too much wikistress), I say well done. The image is clearly inappropriate, there is an alternative and it would long ago have been removed had the "OMG WP:NOT censored" crowd and several self-admitted paedophiles not engaged in a concerted campaign to keep the image. Mikker 18:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, jolly good show. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

As someone who was vaguely in favour of keeping the image in the first place, I'm very happy with the deletion and Sam Korn's latest replacement image. --Fuzzie (talk) 19:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Free images should always be preferable to fair use. .:.Jareth.:. 19:11, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

My compliments, Sam. Your arguments are sound and reasonable, and this move has long been overdue. If this move means you are part of an evil pro-censorship cabal, be it known that I would be honored to become a member too. Kosebamse 19:17, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You have my support. I regret my own mind was not so clear on this issue. Steve block talk 20:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The deleted image has been added to the article by an external link. It was soon removed, perhaps accidentally as editors reverted each other over the new image. If an edit war ensues and protection is done, could we protect with the external link gone? It made no sense to me that the article was protected for days with the image in the article. It was a clear copyright violation in that state, out side of fair use. This is a cabalish request, I know. But does it make sense? Several days ago I added a comment about this at Misplaced Pages:Protection policy FloNight 21:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Sam. If the link becomes a problem, we could request that a meta admin add it to the blacklist, which would prevent it from being added again. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 21:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

There is back and forth editing going on now about the external link with the deleted image and also the new image. It is a large group doing it on both sides so no 3RR (yet). FloNight 22:28, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure we can talk about issues of appropriateness when a couple of clicks takes you to a close up where you can clearly see girls of dubious ages, one shoving a refreshing glass of lemonade up her nether regions, another being groped (and unless Japanese smiles go the same way as their writing, i.e. backwards, she's not enjoying it) plus the usual masturbation, bukakke etc.

Nonetheless, a free picture always trumps a fair use, and I've been on the Internet long enough not to care the least about taste. Oh and by the way Sam, it's spelt "rouge". 212.225.66.153 (logged out for obvious reasons) 22:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Nope. "Rouge" is red makeup. Somebody who breaks the rules is a "rogue", just like Sam spelled it. --Calair 22:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC) (Unless that was a joke and I missed it, which is entirely possible. --Calair 23:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC))

The long term joke has been to use the mispeliing "Rouge admin." This came from a problematic editor who kept making accusations about "Rouge admins." JoshuaZ 23:52, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to Sam for his action. The image was, in addiiton to everything else, extremely divisive. -Will Beback 23:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I can't think of any reason why that had to be mailing list first, wiki second. -Splash 23:51, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I wrote the message on the mailing list first because it's good to have a single set of reasons that you can point to. Writing on the mailing list means I could point to it from various places on the wiki without pasting a long rationale each time. For everyone's benefit, there is an RFC at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Sam Korn. Sam Korn 23:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Diffs to, e.g. a talk page edit (on e.g. Talk:Lolicon) work in exactly the same way as a link to a mailing list post. A diff, however, has the benefit of having been posted to the relevant page in the first place. -Splash 00:00, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

True, but I find diffs illegible. I find it far, far harder to marshal my thoughts and I find that using the mailing list and linking there is clearer to understand. I apologise if you did not. Sam Korn 00:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

PfP Suboptimal

This is pretty fucking poor suboptimal behavior. The article has a talk page, it was getting used. There was a request for a protected edit, and we really didn't need cowboy antics. - brenneman 00:03, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Please, Aaron, do not dismiss my actions in this way. I spent a good deal of time considering what to do and writing a rationale for the mailing list, and have spent several hours after the fact discussing them. Please afford me a little respect. Sam Korn 00:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

• I'm very very upset at how little respect you've demonstrated for those of us who were working towards a solution on the talk page of the article, and without falling back on force (deleting the image) and appeal to a higher power (the mailing list.)
  brenneman 00:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  I understand that you are upset. As I have explained before, I saw that this was the only method by which the issue could be resolved. As for the mailing list, I was not using the mailing list as an appeal to a higher authority. I was mainly using it as somewhere where I could place my rationale and link to it from different places. I apologise if people think this was a mistake. My attempt was to make this as calm and as flame-less as possible. I resent a great deal being labelled a cowboy when I have put a huge amount of effort into being as conciliatory as possible. Sam Korn 00:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  Conciliatory? That's simply insulting. You didn't even use the article's talk page, and the hurried archiving of all the old discussion where there was talking is odd, too.
  brenneman 00:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  This discussion does neither of us any favours. Sam Korn 00:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  I do sort of agree with Aaron in that people finally seemed to be discussing things despite the cry to jimbo - and for those who would bother the last image "proposition" that Sam did (the rack of magazines) was actually already discussed in archive 3 of the talk page. I'm just hoping it doesn't ignite an even bigger edit war. Oh well, I guess if that happens I can protect again thus starting the discussion cycle over again... Just another star in the night 00:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  Aaron and perhaps some others are presumably not aware that this problem had persisted for well over a year until someone had the guts to take action. --Tony Sidaway 08:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  It was just about ready for deletion under Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion/2006 March 29, due to Fair Use issues, imo (bit consensus-lacking, but it clearly didn't qualify for fair use, so). Several people in the talk page were discussing imminent replacement with a decent GFDL image (which has now happened). This is a lot further than it'd gotten before, and so trying to pull out "persisted for over a year" when the discussion seemed to be coming to a productive end within days is, I feel, misleading. --Fuzzie (talk) 13:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  There's no need to be dismissive of those who have tried before. <small&gt;Just another star in the night 11:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  Indeed, my point is that owing to the intransigence of some editors we had a clearly obscene and unsuitable picture on the site for well over a year. To suggest that progress had been made because the image was a copyright infringement is to completely miss the point. The picture should not have been uploaded in the first place, and when uploaded it should have been deleted at once. --Tony Sidaway 15:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  I'm kinda disappointed that he deleted it, because I had just logged on to delete it when I found out that he beat me to the punch. Damn you Sam for taking all the glory! ;-) --Ryan Delaney 17:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

  "There is no road of flowers leading to glory" Jean de la Fontaine Sam Korn 20:00, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Benjamin Gatti (talk · contribs) and continued disruptive behavior

Benjamin Gatti, who has been sanctioned by arbcom for biased, tendentious editing, was recently banned from editing Nuclear power and Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act for disruptive behavior. He has begun to edit again, this time proposing that Category:Nuclear safety be renamed to "Nuclear danger" or "Nuclear risks" . He also seeded the intro of Nuclear safety with a scare phrase of dubious relevance (Nuclear safety "is a term which underscores and understates the danger implicit in the use of nuclear materials") . He has also injected inappropriate, biased statements into Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi: , (where he writes as fact that Hashemi was given "preferential treatment" in his admission to Yale). Both of these types of edits continue a long-established pattern of biased editing to nuclear and political topics -- for which he has been placed on probation by the arbcom Final decision. I was one of the people who brought the original case against Benjamin so I don't feel it's appropriate for me to be counted in administrators voting to enforce his probation with a block, but for goodness sake, somebody else, please consider it. This has gone on long enough. Three administrators are needed to take any blocking action, and one is needed to enforce a per-article ban. · Katefan0/poll 18:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I echo kate's statement. I think we need a ban from any article involving the nuclear industry. This would include everything...categories, articles, etc. Ben isn't going to change. He's showed absolutely 0 inclination to change. In fact, he's become more troll-like since his arbcom case ended. --Woohookitty 19:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

1. Support enforcement. --Syrthiss 19:02, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
2. Support; obvious continued disruption. .:.Jareth.:. 19:13, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
3. Support enforcement. Clear unreferenced POV after being sanctioned by ArbCom for same, protests ring hollow. Enough. --Sam Blanning 22:17, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

1. Comment the edits are sound and well sourced. "Nuclear safety" is an oxymoron as nuclear chain reactions are an inherently volatile proposition, and it is self-evident that the subject of Nuclear-safety - is a misnomer intended to convey a subconscious POV. I propose the more accurate Nuclear-risk and somebody blows a fuse. Yale did absolutely give preferential treatment to Sayed based on his association with a human-rights abusing organization - this is well reported by the Times - or is someone suggesting with a straight face that Sayed's fourth grade education made him more qualified than thousands of other applicants? - Some of which defended this country and the principles enumerated in the Constitution at the risk of their own lives? Please Benjamin Gatti 22:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. That's three administrators needed for a block. Now someone needs to place it. 71.251.48.60 04:12, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Someone needs to block him from anything involving nuclear energy until his probation is up. --Woohookitty 13:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I've banned Benjamin from Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi and Nuclear safety and talk pages, and blocked him for one week. This is my first ArbCom enforcement block, so if anyone disagrees with the exact measures I've taken (especially the other supporting admins), please say so. --Sam Blanning 18:27, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Possible Zephram Stark sockpuppet

Fear of ISMs (talk · contribs). this edit at the little noticed Battery electric factory flat truck (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is identical to this edit (see Batteries section) of previous sockpuppet. Also terrorism-themed info on his user page. --JW1805 (Talk) 20:17, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

They also have similar styles of edit summaries. JoshuaZ 21:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

• Now, concerned about verification of image uploaded by ZS, currently on ifd: this edit. --JW1805 (Talk) 20:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

After this I indef blocked. Thoroughly inappropriate and likely a sock anyway. · Katefan0/poll 21:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

That's a mildly clever trick, I don't think I've seen that one before. JoshuaZ 21:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hell, I fell for it. I notice nobody is bothering to extend ZS's six-month timer. I'm unilaterally making his block indefinite; I'm assuming there's consensus for a community ban in this case. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

• Can someone revert his talk page to this version and protect. He is banned, and should not be allowed a forum for posting his essays. --JW1805 (Talk) 21:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

At least give the dude credit - he's running rings round you guys. He's the Beatles, you're the stuffy old aldermen of Birmingham Alabama, trying (in vain) to ban his records. Me? I'm Lester Bangs: I love this subversive rock 'n' roll. Anyone got any cough medicine?

it's hard to tell, hard to tell, hard to tell, when all your love is in vain, all your love is in vain

ElectricRay 14:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• Let's see. You: 63 mainspace edits. Us stuffy old aldermen: 13,000 between the four of us just in this little interchange. You: Arguing at every juncture to let a destructive editor continue being destructive, supported by nobody except himself and yourself, assuming there is a difference. Us stuffy old aldermen: Building an encyclopedia. The fans can decide. If they think Stark is the Beatles, they'll let us know. Me, I think he's more akin to Wild Man Fischer. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you alleging I'm a sock of Zephram? FIE UPON THEE! ElectricRay 15:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh my gosh. I haven't been FIED for decades! Wow! -- Interesting. It actually feels pretty good, compared to many other possible retorts. I think I shall take up occasionally FYING others; there's something special about the sensation, I suspect, from both sides. (Does anyone know what it actually means?) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

It is an archaic word denoting shock, outrage or disgust. One should be careful not to overuse it, I find. I think Wild Man Fischer is quite a good analogy: he seems a pretty neat guy. And you have to admit, Zephram is pretty funny. He's got JW chasing shadows all over the show. And for all JW's studied outrage, I think Wild Man Stark's essays are worth throwing 10 cents in the hat for. Are you taking anything for your editcountitis, by the way? Ever tried Romilar? ElectricRay 16:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Sure, ZS is now quite the effectively annoying troll. Nobody is denying that he is a troll, and it's not surprising that there are people who find trolls funny -- without supporters like you, trolls would mostly be growing hair on their palms. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:29, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

If not, you may want to try some Fukitol for your wikistress. It works wonders for me. – ClockworkSoul 16:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Medule

Medule (talk · contribs) is continually reverting articles relating to Croats and Croatia, inserting factually inaccurate data and breaking the 3RR. He has refused to discuss on numerous ocassions and has been disrupting these articles for over a month. He has also been using sockpuppets like User:Purger and User:Purrger and has ignored repeated warnings to stop vandalizing. Here are just some of the articles he has been disrupting with his reverts - Battle of Vukovar, Croatia, Human rights in Croatia, Borovo Selo raid, History of modern Croatia, and many more. Can someone please warn and/or block him? Thank you. --Dr.Gonzo 01:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Agree. Medule is nothing more than an arrogant vandal with a highly biased opinion and will stop at nothing to further his Serbian propaganda and lies. This user should be banned from Misplaced Pages, because he has no useful edits and only makes life harder for those who try to maintain Misplaced Pages as a neutral encyclopaedia. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 01:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I also support some kind of action. Medule and his numerous sockpuppets have been forcing the same edits for months now, even deleting or rewriting entire paragraphs in an inflammatory manner without any discussion or collaboration whatsoever. His obsession is wasting the time of many users--including my own--and that time could be better spent on actual contributions rather than on endless reverts. --AHrvojic 04:51, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppet?

User:Hipocrite removed a sockpuppet message from User:Hpuppet (). Due to the closeness in name and the edit, perhaps User:Hipocrite is a sockpuppet as well? Hopefully, someone can check this out. joturner 02:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Misplaced Pages:Requests for CheckUser is this way.:-) Regards —Encephalon 02:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Fairly probable but a sockpuppet should be done just to be sure. Pegasus1138 ---- 19:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Adityanath (talk · contribs)

This one is long overdue. This guy has been asking for trouble it looks like for a long time, and somehow has avoided it. Hidden agenda, confirmed sockpuppeting, sneaky editing, vandalism, personal attacks, the works...he has already been blocked for 48 hrs for 3RR Recommend: blocking for extended period...give him some time to smell the roses...Also - articles in question below probably require arbitration Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath, Mahavatar Babaji, Shiv-Goraksha-Babaji - there has been bickering going on for months now, with no resolution. main users in question are Adityanath (talk · contribs) and hamsacharya dan (talk · contribs)

• earlier citations

an/i sockpuppets

• most recent

• personal attacks/incivility

in citation tag

• original research

interprets his sources to mean the opposite of what they actually meant intentional misinterpretation used immaterial reference to bolster his thesis of conflicting viewsno basis for this misinterprets to bolster his thesis original research - uses leading-words to bias reader misrepresentation of fact writing his thesis on wikipedia interpretation and false in context misrepresenting source demonstrates bias

• removal/sneaky vandalism or edits

false claim of mediator opinion false claim that section was deleted - it was integrated in main body not a PA claims to abide by mediator decision, but does whatever he wants in practiceto avoid punishment he removed an admin notice removed notice to avoid consequences disingenuous tags and vandalism disingenuous tags and vandalism removed citation exposing original research disingenuous tags and vandalism shows hipocrisy when previously he said you can't add conflictingviews of conflicting views disingenuous tags and vandalism removes edits that falsify his claims numerous ways he tries to undermine views he disdains another false statement to create bias false statement to try to get out of trouble

• more on:
  • his own talk page

removing warnings - threat - removing warnings -

• • kriya yoga page

• • Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath page

deceptively trying to weaken argument weakens syntax then claims it to be nonsensical

• • babaji page

sneaky removal

• • nath page

tags tags removing discussion 3RR: POV original research edits

Kalagni Nath 05:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello. It sounds to me like there are multiple issues of a more chronic nature here. Perhaps an RfC might be better suited for considering the matter, rather than the admin noticeboard. —Encephalon 20:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Asb2111 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I have indefblocked this user whose stated aim is "A group of over 325 people have signed up to destroy this website from Columbia University". His edits were mainly spamming of the statement "SORMTACULAR HERRABISM!" and variants therof to numerous pages. He also created the nonsensical Sormtacular herrabism article, now speedied. As I'm still gaining my admin legs around here, comments please. --Cactus.man ✍ 08:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Oddly, enough, he was coming from a Columbia University IP. It seems static enough; if it keeps up, let me know and I'll nail the IP. Essjay 09:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Err, did you mean he wasn't coming from a Columbia University IP? --Cactus.man ✍ 09:55, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I suspect mild humor myself, Cactus.man.;-) —Encephalon 10:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Damn that internet communication thing :-( I presume that since I'm not locked in the stocks with a mob throwing tomatoes at me that the block is OK? --Cactus.man ✍ 11:21, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Nope, I mean he was. It's odd, because usually these kinds of claims come from crackpots with no affiliation to the place they claim to be from; this guy was actually from Colombia. Essjay 12:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for similar nonsense and let you know. --Cactus.man ✍ 12:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, let's see. First solitary edit Feb 11 to the User page, after which there was complete silence until today when it went on a vandalism spree involving some 20 odd pages. Ample warnings on talk page unheeded. The threat was placed on a mainspace talk page. It may well be a joke, but there is no way to be certain. Regardless, it's a very new account that has essentially only engaged in vandalism, so certainly a ban isn't inappropriate. I would probably use {{Indefblocked-vandalism}}, but this is minor. —Encephalon 20:26, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

A discussion with Columbia University's system admins would probably be a good idea. User:Zoe| 02:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Freemasonry related pages - Mutually supporting (probable) sock farm

Across a number of Freemasonry related pages Anti-Masonry, Christianity and Freemasonry, Catholicism and Freemasonry, Jahbulon we now have a herd of mutually supporting edits to disputed versions with no discussion or attempts to reach consensus. Current probable socks are JeffT (talk · contribs), ABrowne (talk · contribs), Ulsterman81 (talk · contribs), PaulMcCartney (talk · contribs), MicroMacro (talk · contribs), Activevision (talk · contribs) with a check user request at ]

THis looks like co-ordinated flooding to force established editors into 3RR violations.ALR 11:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Nobody found reverting these editors should be blocked for 3RR; all are Lightbringer socks, as established by checkuser. I've blocked the lot of them, and anything they have done should be reverted on sight. Essjay 12:01, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for dealing with that. ALR 12:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Add Linament (talk · contribs) to the Lightbringer block list please. Thanks Blueboar 12:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

More of the same... again... Please see Anti-Masonry and Christianity and Freemasonry ... on each page, the user creates an new account, immediately goes to a Freemasonry related page, and reverts it back to the exact same edits as the sock farm listed above. This time the suspected puppet names are: Luxor Egypt (talk · contribs) , and Honor Guard (talk · contribs). Perhaps all of these pages need semi-locks, so that the regular editors can get some work done without all the user:Lightbringer socks constantly interrupting our progress. Blueboar 12:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Examples ] from Ulsterman81 cf ] from LuxorEgypt. and ] from ABrowne cf ] from HonorGuard.ALR 12:58, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Hyphen5

I blocked Hyphen5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for 48 hours after seeing this edit. I don't know if everyone else thinks the block is unneccesary/too long/too short, so any feedback would be accepted, along with anybodies view on the matter. — FireFox • T

Well, he's clearly been creating a stir judging from comments on his talk page, but I think 48 hours for saying "fuck the arbcom" is a little too harsh, especially with no warning. I would probably have just reverted the edit and warned him to calm down. Then if he didn't, a block might be appropriate. · Katefan0/poll 16:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. At the point of blocking I wasn't too sure about the situation, so I thought I better block until it got cleared up. At the moment I'm trying to find out why it was he did that, so far all I have on his talk page is "Woops, my bad". — FireFox • T

The block is fair. It seems less for saying "Fuck the Arbcom" (which, IMO, is OK), then how he said it - as disruptive vandalism. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 02:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• I see he has been editing a number of contentious articles but seems to have been keeping pretty cool about it, and 48hrs may be too long for a first offense. However, the "F the Arbcom" and "Whoops my bad" edits seem to be completely out of character. Could his account have been hijacked? (forgot to log out of a shared computer?) I suggest keeping blocked until he contacts you with a more substantial explanation, and unblock sooner than 48hrs if the explanation seems reasonable. Thatcher131 16:26, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Also deleted all his own userboxes???? Thatcher131 16:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

We have a reply... it looks like he's quitting. — FireFox • T

User:Frelke

A user who has left wikipedia after intimidation by other users asked for his user and talk pages to be removed. This has been done but User:Frelke was discovered to have copies of the talk pages archived. This seems strange and unnecessary especially as there may be a link with one of the users doing the intimidating (they are both gamers). Can these pages be deleted or has the user the right to store them? It seems a misuse of wikipedia to me and a slightly worrying move on the part of the user. AnnH has asked him to delete them but he has refused. The files are here: User talk:Frelke#Robsteadman Pansy Brandybuck AKA SophiaTCF 16:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

"As a matter of practice User talk pages are generally not deleted, barring legal threats or other grievous violations that have to be removed for legal reasons; however, exceptions to this can be and are made occasionally." (Misplaced Pages:User page). I would have thought they either shouldn't have been deleted in the first place; or, if they were correctly deleted, the guidelines can be reasonably extended to a fork of the user pages. Deleting the one copy but not the other achieves nothing, right? --kingboyk 16:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Barring CSD-U1, our version of meatball:RightToVanish is ad-hoc at best (personally I don't think it's appropriate here, where keeping track of who said and did what is important). Keeping copies of someone's talk page is generally rather petty (and may well refect more poorly on the keeper than the original user) but I don't believe that, in general, it rises to the level where admin action is called for. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The user in question User:Robsteadman had a vicious personal attack made on his page yesterday by User:Count Of The Saxon Shore which I can't show as the page has been deleted but admin Gator1 spotted it and removed it so can confirm. This user has pursued Rob for several months and tried to get his wiki article deleted Robert Steadman. He has apologised but I think Rob was uncomfortable with being well known and identifiable and would like to just "disappear". Pansy Brandybuck AKA SophiaTCF 17:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted Frelke's copies, since they were copies of deleted material. If anything needs to be restored, and I don't feel strongly about this either way, it's Robsteadman's original user and user talk pages. When asked about what he was doing, Frelke made personal attacks against Robsteadman; in light of this, I think we're dealing with a case of harassment. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 18:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Pansy Brandybuck AKA SophiaTCF 18:13, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Sophia, I have nothing to do with Frelke. There are a lot of people who like playing games. Please can you not use the term intimidation again - it is not helpful. I cannot aplogise any more than I have already done. I'd apl;ogize personally to Rob if he would hear me out. Mr Steadman and I rub each other up the wrong way and I over reacted - but the whole issue only came to a head yesterday evening because Mr steadman made personal attacks on his user page and taunted me. I think in this case intimidation is a very strong word.Count Of The Saxon Shore 23:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Location hypotheses of Atlantis

I am involved with a content dispute with a new user at Location hypotheses of Atlantis, verging on being something larger. I think I have been resonable and not WP:BITE, but I would like someone else to help me out. The long and short of it is at our respective talk pages (User talk:RobertMc, Reflex Reaction) but to summarize. He adds a machine translated Spanish to the above article. I revert it because of WP:NOR and the translation isssue. He add it back, modified, but still clearly translated and still WP:NPOV and WP:BIO. I reply back and digging a little bit I see that he is likely a person who was causing problems on other Atlantis forums. Info already exists about the information he is presenting - its Cape Spartel, but his English is so poor, I'm not sure that he recognized it. Other voices would be appreciated. Thanks! --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 17:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

For his continual reinsertion, I have blocked him for 24 hours. Please let me know if I have overstepped my bounds. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 19:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

IMO the block was justified, but in future bear in mind that it is considered bad ettiquette to block when you're involved in the matter. Werdna648/_C\ 21:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know! I agree it's bad form; that's why I asked for help here, but I got a little impatient with his continual reinsertion and hope my actions would speak for themselves and not against me. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 21:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Possible advertising scam

Something suspicious has been going on with articles related to the Travolta family, specifically in relation to the article Rikki Lee Travolta and a book written by him My Fractured Life with the various users below adding Rikki (and removing other Travoltas) as members of the Travolta family and adding information to various articles in relation to this book. It is claimed that Rikki is son of a Michael Travolta, an Australian and supposedly a brother of John Travolta but I cannot any reliable source that lists a Michael Travolta as a member of John Travolta's family (this link lists only Joey, Sam, Ellen, Ann and Margaret as siblings of John).

These users seem to be involved: Special:Contributions/Icemountain2, Special:Contributions/DogStar123, Special:Contributions/Cokenotpepsi, Special:Contributions/Infinitytoday, Special:Contributions/EraserX, Special:Contributions/ScholasticBks, Special:Contributions/Dramalover, Special:Contributions/Bostic5.0, Special:Contributions/Hardwoodhaywood, Special:Contributions/Paramountpr, Special:Contributions/Sonybmg, Special:Contributions/65.209.181.195, Special:Contributions/68.74.180.2, Special:Contributions/68.74.121.143. Arniep 19:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I have nominated the articles in question for deletion Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2006_April_5#Rikki_Lee_Travolta. Arniep 01:55, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The article should be indelibly flagged as advertising and, unless a user can document the herdity claims, also as unsubstantianted and probably bogus. But behind the advertising the article contains some encyclopedia facts. All I am saying, is give flags a chance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghosts&empties (talk • contribs) 16:17, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Well two users did try to flag it as advertising but it was removed every time by the numerous sock puppets listed above. Arniep 17:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I started the Annie Travolta page and have been a contributor to many of the Travolta family pages including Margaret Travolta, Rikki Lee Travolta, Annie Travolta, and John Travolta. Many of those changes are reverting vandalism. It is right there in the history. There is no way, shape, or form that could remotely be confused as being in an “advertising scam”. I have NEVER removed members of the Travolta family from listings. I have worked hard to keep the integrity in tact. I think upon closer inspection you’ll see there was an influx of attempts by an anon (66.121.40.132) to vandalizing different Travolta family sites (changing facts without providing sources or citations). When the anon seemed to be starting a revert war with different users I followed Wiki policy and contacted them on their discussion page to request documentation for the changes being made.

Its been noticed that you have made several repeated changes to the family elements of the John Travolta page and related pages. The policy at Misplaced Pages is to try to avoid revert wars going back and forth over the same territory. As follows are what we have confirmed as members of the Travolta family: Margaret Travolta, John Travolta, Ellen Travolta, Joey Travolta, Rikki Lee Travolta; Jack Bannon, Rachel Travolta, Nicole Travolta, Michael Salvatore Travolta, Helen (Burke) Travolta, Kelly Preston, Salvatore Travolta, Molly Allen Ritter, Jonathan Rau, Jet Travolta, Tom Fridley, Sam Travolta, Ella Blue Travolta, Valentino Travolta, and Annie Travolta. This is not an all inclusive list, but all those listed are confirmed. In respecting Misplaced Pages policy it is always necessary to approach differences of opinion in good faith. Although we have documented each of these individuals as relatives (of different levels of removal or closeness of course) within the extended Travolta family, ff you disagree with any person(s) on this list please provide the documentation and we should be able to come to a simple understanding relatively quickly (no pun intended). We thank you in advance for your cooperation.

The anon (66.121.40.132) did not respond. I assumed the matter was dropped but now I find out I am being lumped in some kind of witch hunt accusation by Arniep who seems to have some vendetta based on feelings and assumptions without citing any sources and discounting such sources as TV Guide and The Chicago Sun Times as "just sites used by agencies".

Firstly, the TV guide link says "There's also some kind of grassroots campaign on behalf of singer/theater actor Rikki Lee Travolta". A grassroots campaign led by who??? Secondly the Chicago Sun Times link is inexplicably not at the Chicago Sun Times website. Thirdly, the person you contacted had removed Rikki Lee Travolta from all the Travolta pages saying "Rikki Lee is not part of this clan" after you had added that name (see Special:Contributions/66.121.40.132). Arniep 20:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

If you look at Arniep's talk page you see a long history of jumping to conclusions and waging war on opinions that are different than Arniep's. Not the spirit of good faith that is intended and required for successful interaction. Sorry - one person's opinion shouldn't outweigh the facts. And Arniep is trying to make wide sweeping changes purely on opinioin without citing facts and ignoring the facts that do exist. The Rikki Lee Travolta page appears to (now) have good documentation. The other page named: My Fractured Life needs to be cleaned up and is so marked. This is nothing more than a witch hunt if you ask me and I'm offended to have been included in it because I was the one who tried to follow Wiki policy to avoid this kind of pointless McCarthyism. Paramountpr 18:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but we can only use reliable sources of information (see WP:RS). Arniep 19:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• Rikki Lee Travolta is a real person and a relative of John per Daily Variety, the Chicago Sun-Times, Toronto Star, and others, per a Lexis/Nexis search. For example, from the New York Post in 2002,

THERE'S a strange postscipt to our item the other day about the Internet rumor that Steven Spielberg and George Lucas have created a computer-generated actor called "Rikki Lee Travolta." A rather odd actor named Rikki Lee Travolta does in fact exist, and held a press conference in Chicago Tuesday to prove it. "It's good to be alive," he stated. "I am an actor. I am a human being." Travolta, who is of Italian and Native American extraction and claims some family connection with John Travolta, appeared in "West Side Story" on Broadway. He wrote a novel, sports a gunshot wound and claims a doctorate in religious studies. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Whether this person is notable enough for an article is another matter. Thatcher131 20:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

There is no reliable evidence that he is even related to John Travolta, see the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2006_April_5#Rikki_Lee_Travolta for further info. Arniep 23:27, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• See analysis at Talk:Rikki Lee Travolta and Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for deletion/Rikki Lee Travolta (although even if this is self-promotion by a non-notable person, hard to see why it should have been brought to AN/I). Thatcher131 00:27, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Current events

Am I the only one having problems with Current events? It takes forever to load, and when it finally does, there is nothing there but all of the templates. If I look at the history, that takes forever to load, too, and even though I can see text in the diffs, the text doesn't show up on the screen below the diff boxes. User:Zoe| 19:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I can see the templates, the history, and the diffs without any problem and with the exception of the diff, they all come up fairly rapidly. Is there supposed to be something else there? (I never access the page, so...) Hermione1980 19:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Its a bit slow, but appears to be working fine for me too Admrb♉ltz (T | C | k) 20:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

No, you're not. It took about 20 seconds to load for me, and the only thing on the page were the templates. When I hit edit preview however, the page loaded fine. History is fine too. Interestingly it doesn't improve with successive page loads (normally the case because of browser caching). —Encephalon 20:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I spoke to Tim Starling about this on IRC earlier. He did some digging and thought it was related to these two templates (In Ed Poor's user space for some reason) that are included (probably nested within some of the other templates) : . I can't see how the case statements would only affect diffs, but Tim knows a lot more about Mediawiki than I do. --GraemeL 21:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, Tim knows a lot more about a lot more of Mediawiki than most of us, I should say.:-) Has anything been done in the direction of solving the problem, GraemeL? I hail from the fiddle, save and pray school of admins, who have a proud tradition of screwing things up very nicely indeed—with the best of intentions, mind—so I shan't be going anywhere near this. As I write, there have been no new edits to either template, and Current events remains inappropriately uncooperative. Perhaps Tim might be persuaded to descend to these nether regions for a quick bit of wizadry?:-) —Encephalon 23:01, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Not as yet, Tim logged out shortly after he pointed me in the direction of the two templates. I'll have a dig into the template nesting tomorrow and see if I can work out why they're used. After I see how things hang together, I'll speak to Tim again. I'll let you know what I find out. --GraemeL 23:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The same problem occurs with every page on the Whatlinkshere of those templates. That's quite a pretty collection of pages, too. I'm minded to blank the templates, and leave them blanked until they can be fixed. It seems better to have a b0rken formatting than an unloadable hundred pages or so. -Splash 02:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so blanking them made no difference. -Splash 02:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

So I fixed it the semi-inelegant way. It was Template:Current events box that was importing the problem into Current events and Template:utc (note: lowercase, the uppercase 'doppelganger' has no troubles) that was b0rking that, or more likely one of the calls it makes. So I reverted the template to pre-{{utc}} and now the associated pages load fine. This of course does not fix the other articles. I wonder if we just found out when to avoid meta-templates? -Splash 02:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, please do that! User:Zoe| 02:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I have now unpicked usages of {{utc}} from the various articles it appeared in and, most significantly, Template:Timezones, which was b0rking the loading of every single timezone article. This has to be a meta-templates issue. Some of the calls are (I think) 4 or 5 levels deep, ultimately landing at a template that is 70kb long! -Splash 02:24, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Awesome saving of the day, Splash. I cannot say anything remotely useful about meta-template issues, but transclusions 5 levels deep does sound to me like a suspiciously inelegant way to do things. —Encephalon 03:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Loading here (in Florida) just a matter of seconds... KimvdLinde 18:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Stalking and Violation of Laws Related to Stalking

See contribs on user talks_to_birds, Jerryg, and Vigilant.

Talks_to_birds (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log)

jerryg (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log)

vigilant (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log)

These accounts appear to have been created solely to stalk and harrass editors on Misplaced Pages. There are NO contributions from these account of any substance of useful or valuable content, just pages littered with accusations, personal attacks, allegations, and harassing dialogue. These accounts appear to have been created solely for purposes of stalking and harassment. 70.103.108.66 22:20, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The accounts make perpetual sockpuppet allegations against any editors of Cherokee related articles. They originate from the Yahoo SCOX Message board. Their "contributions" to Misplaced Pages consist of following other users around to revert their edits and posting harassing materials through WP. All of these accounts should be indefinitely blocked. Were the accounts being used for some purpose other than harassment, then perhaps there could be another solution. As it stands, these accounts and their conduct expose WP to severe liabilities since Stalking is a crime in most juridictions in the US. 70.103.108.66 19:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

After several accounts, including Gadugi (talk · contribs) , Waya sahoni (talk · contribs), PeyoteMan (talk · contribs) (all almiost certainly belonging to Jeffrey Vernon Merkey) were permanently blocked for editing an article about himself and for legal threats, the same user created at least two new accounts and edited from several IP numbers (including the one he is complaining from). There is already an open Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Waya sahoni about editing Jeffrey Vernon Merkey page. These are the accounts the person is using presently:

1. Asgaya Gigagei (talk • contribs • Gigagei page moves • block user • block log) - here he admitted owning many sockpuppet accounts, here he bragged one of them is 67.169.249.44 (compare with this WP edit) and here he signed as "Jeff"
2. 67.169.249.44 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) - Asgaya Gigagei actually admitted using this IP number (see above)
3. WhiteDoveWomen (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) - this postings links WhiteDoveWomen to Asgaya Gigagei
4. 70.103.108.66 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) - this is an IP number from soleranetworks.com where Jeff Merkey works according to his WP article. This IP number and Asgaya Gigagei are evidently operated by one person.

He again edited twice the article on himself, which is the very topic of this Arbitration Request: see & .

He put defamation warnings on several users (all involved in the Arbitration request) talk pages (Jerryg, Talks to birds and Vigilant - the first entered by Asgaya Gigagei and the rest by 70.103.108.66 which connects the two nyms nicely) as well, as an article Talk page (BTW he's close to 3RR on this page).

I did not intervene in this situation in any way, except by observing his actions, documenting them on my Talk page and now putting a warning on the Misplaced Pages talk: Requests for arbitration/Waya sahoni, and now here. Friendly Neighbour 19:34, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

What better proof do you need? Trace logs of non-WP sites. These people are using WP for stalking. I remind WP of its policies stated on its main pages about complying with Florida and US laws. Please block these accounts for stalking and harassment. Continuing to block the person who is the victim of the actions of these people isn't fixing it. Now please do your jobs. 70.103.108.66 20:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

All socks blocked indef. User:Zscout370 21:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Friendly Neighbour 21:25, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Indefinite is a long time for an IP address, although I appreciate that an unblock can be requested in the future should an innocent be caught by it. Nonetheless, maybe something like 1 year would be better? --kingboyk 23:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The IP address are most likely proxy's, since this user ran them before. But, if the autoblock is placed, they can go to my userpage and use my email or find someone on IRC to unblock them (if you see any autoblocks, you can remove them at your own will, just let me know it is being done). User:Zscout370 02:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I would take the following as Merkey's clear statement that he intends to be back.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/237458/message/1144201223/Re-+Nobody+believe's+you+Jeff

Re: Nobody believe's you Jeff
April 4 2006 at 8:40 PM	Asgaya  (Login AsgayaGigagei)	
Response to Nobody believe's you Jeff	
Plenty more accounts there moron. I've got hundreds of IPs and dozens of accounts and edit from them all.
Hey, you aren't one of us. You're one of those anal/oral copulaters from San Francisco.
Get back to your board lil'old gay college boy.
Hv-wa

What a nice guy, eh? -- talks_to_birds 01:52, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

If no one objects, I am going to stick that on my userpage. User:Zscout370 02:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

POV pushing by IP

86.130.68.75 (talk • contribs • count) has repeatedly added one-sided comments to articles, with no attempt at objectivity. In particular, the same edit has been added to Julia Goldsworthy over and over - e.g. , , but also to BBC () and Oxfam (). I have left several messages asking the user to desist, but they have not engaged with me or with my attempt to start discussion on Talk:Julia Goldsworthy. I wasn't sure if this was clear-cut enough for WP:AIAV, but I'd like an admin to look at this and consider taking action. Thanks. —Whouk (talk) 20:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

User:168.209.98.35

Could someone with more knowledge of these things please take a look at this one? User:Park3r, who appears to be a good editor, is reporting that he's being hit by colateral damage from the indefinite block of the IP, and that the IP is some sort of ISP proxy for a major South African ISP . The block log of the IP is a horrid mess of indefinite blocks, unblocks, and later reblocks. If this is a "zombie proxy", as the IP's user and talk pages say, then we may need to be careful with it, because it definitely appears to be causing colatteral damage every time it gets indefinitely blocked. - TexasAndroid 20:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

User:WikiMB is a sockpuppet of User:Bormalagurski

Hello all,

I had filed a request for CheckUser for WikiMB (talk · contribs) and Bormalagurski (talk · contribs). After Kelly Martin initially declined the request for CheckUser, I was able to gather more evidence which I submitted on on her talk page. She reopened the request and indeed confirmed that the two users are most likely the same editor .

I am unsure what the next step should be. I'm no admin, but blocking of the sockpuppet seems a logical step. The puppet seems to have been created to help Bormalagurski (talk · contribs) in certain edit conflicts, and perhaps on his way to an WP:RFA. His puppet thus made minor but worthwhile additions to the Wiki, probably to pass for a real person (which initially fooled many of us inclding Kelly Martin!). However, as far as I know, no real abuse has yet taken place. After a period of several days making small additions, the puppet has only (quasi-innocently) entered a controversial discussion (Talk:Kosovo) on April 1 . It seems we have nipped the abuse in the bud.

So the question is: now what? Would it still be appropriate to start an RFAr? In that case, I am sure User:EurowikiJ, who first alerted me to this question, has more to say on the topic.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

Cheers, The Minister of War 21:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

What worried me the most and, in fact encouraged me to proceed with this was the fact that User:Bormalagurski had attempted on several occasions to become an administrator only to fail because of his highly controversial edits and inflammatory comments he has been known to leave on other people's pages. Until April 2 I had only circumstantial evidence that there was indeed a link between User:Bormalagurski and the skilful and ambitious new contributor User:WikiMB who seemed to appear out of nowhere but, admittedly, was indeed making worthwhile contributions. While User:Bormalagurski continued with his edit wars, vendettas and back-handed remarks, User:WikiMB was the complete opposite. Not only was he kind and intent on spreading good will amongst those who previously had rejected his alter-ego, he even set an ambitious goal of reaching a thousand edits per month backing this goal with a link to edit count on his user-page. Following strange events on April 2 on his user-page which caught my attention, checkuser procedure was set in motion which eventually came with the result that User:WikiMB was indeed User:Bormalagurski‘s sockpuppet.

Given the fervent wish of User:Bormalagurski to become an administrator and the damaging consequences that such status would have on pages related to former Yugoslavia as well as his attempt to achieve that goal through such an elaborate scheme such as the creation of a sock-puppet that purports to be his complete opposite, I call for his sock-puppet User:WikiMB to be blocked.

Thank you. EurowikiJ 22:16, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Block issued. User:Zscout370 22:18, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

This is highly disturbing behavior, I think an RfA would make sense. JoshuaZ 23:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you meant RfC, Joshua? —Encephalon 23:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps I should have said "RfAr" This user will not respond to an RfC, as has been demonstrated by his myriad of problems. Furtermore, given how close to successful he was with a very dangerous sockpuppet, an RfC will very likely just give him WP:BEANS data so as to do it better next time. However, now that you mention it, I think that Bormalagurski has exceeded my patience with this behavior and constant POV pushing, and an RfC might be more effective at establishing whether or not the community still feels a need and/or ability to tolerate his presence. JoshuaZ 23:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, let me comment about what all of you people have said.

1. "User:Bormalagurski had attempted on several occasions to become an administrator" - WRONG - I attempted to become an administrator only once.
2. "The puppet seems to have been created to help Bormalagurski (talk · contribs) in certain edit conflicts" - WRONG, look at WikiMB's edits, do you see him helping me in any way? I think it's more the other way around, since he is my school friend. Also, if you look at the Kosovo edit, you will see that he tried to ease tensions, and not provoke them. I asked him to join the discussions, just like many users have done so when they need support, but he has declined and said that he will only make one adjustment and thats it. And guess what, he never edited Kosovo after that.
3. "While User:Bormalagurski continued with his edit wars, vendettas and back-handed remarks, User:WikiMB was the complete opposite." - CORRECT, he is not like me at all, and my intent was to show him how Misplaced Pages can be fun and creative, but yes, I also felt good having someone who might support me in a discussion. He hasn't shown much interest in getting into article discussions, he enjoys writing new articles, which you will immediately notice if you open his page.
4. "he even set an ambitious goal of reaching a thousand edits per month backing this goal with a link to edit count on his user-page" - CORRECT, I showed him how to put the edit count on his page, but he decided on his goal on his own.

Also, one of the "main evidence" for sockpuppetry is that he sent my photos to Misplaced Pages. Well, I told him to do that, even showed him how to do it, sent the first photo for him, and created a sub-page for him. If thats not allowed, tell me now, and I'll never help anyone learn how to edit for Misplaced Pages. Block me, block me now, I don't care, you guys have been planning this for a long time, but leave WikiMB alone. Seriously. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 00:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

And you have a plausible explanation for why he sent the photos rather than you? JoshuaZ 01:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I didn't have any interests in sending the photos. My main priority is to edit for Serbian Misplaced Pages, not this one (I have 10 times more edits on sr wiki, than en wiki). WikiMB, on the other hand, wanted to send those photos because he likes them, so I sent one and he sent the others... He is even planning to send them to the Commons website... Look, I know that this is a case of "either you believe me or you don't". It's your choice. As I've said, I don't care if you block me, but leave WikiMB alone. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 01:34, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

So, you're telling me that WikiMB submitted images under false licensing statements? Because if you're not WikiMB, then his claim to be the creator of those images (which he made when submitting those images to Misplaced Pages) was false. We block for that, you know. Anyway, your story doesn't hold water, and actually your recent edits have served to bolster the claim against you. Kelly Martin (talk) 02:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

But, why does it matter who sent them if I say it's OK? They're my photos. Also, which recent edits are you talking about? -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 03:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, Kelly, your arguments are based on not trusting me, I have provided explinations for everything, and you just accused WikiMB of false licencing statements. This souns like a case of "let's get rid of this guy by all means" to me. Here's a thought, why don't you give me your MSN, I'll add you, and we can start a conference, me, you and WikiMB, how does that sound? -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 03:34, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm almost inclined to believe Bormalagurski because I have trouble seeing him remain as polite and not POV pushing as WikiMB. Kelly, you said that Borma's recent edits support the claim that WikiMB is a sock. Which edits are you refering to? JoshuaZ 03:55, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Boris is lying. --VKokielov 05:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The claim that User:Bormalagurski hoped that User:WikiMB would "support him in his discussions." is ludicrous. On the contrary User:WikiMB has been created with the sole purpose of eventually obtaining adminship. Hence, the ambitious goal, good-will across Misplaced Pages, PR remarks on his and other user-pages. And an absolutely clear separation of the two accounts with no communication between the two. Otherwise, User:WikiMB's prospects of obtaining it are gone.

Also User:Bormalagurski insists the second account belongs to his school-friend. However, ever since his alleged school-friend appeared on Misplaced Pages, WikiMB has contacted a number of contributors, but NOT ONCE did he leave a message on User:Bormalagurski's page. Likewise, User:Bormalagurski never left a message on his alleged school-friend's user page. In fact, prior to April 2 there is only one "close-call" incident on a highly-controversial Kosovo page:

• - WikiMB edits the table. This is his first and only appearance on this page.

• • I have asked WikiMB to look at the article, simply because I think he could look at it from a more NPOV. He told me that he has no interest in articles such as that one, and only made a minor change, which I quickly noticed, since Kosovo is on my watchlist. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 23:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• - Bormalagurski, who is a frequent visitor on the page, edits the same table only 11 minutes afterwards. In the meantime, probably realizing his mistake of logging under WikiMB's account, WikiMB compiles a message of good-will that he leaves on the talk-page and then disappears:

Bormalagurski edits 8 minutes later the same table as it is shown above.

• • As I've said, I noticed what WikiMB edited very quickly, and divided the column to make it look better. Kosovo is on my watchlist, the 11 or 8 minutes (or whatever time interval it was) should've been shorter, I noticed the change ever earlier, but was trying to figure out how to divide the column. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 23:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

However, on April 2 something even stranger happened on WikiMB's user page.

• Luka Jacov, Bormalagurski-friendly contributor, leaves a message in Serbo-Croatian: "Boris, why do you have two accounts. Interesting that you also have the same goal - writting about all the places in Croatia. See you."

• • Yes, he did leave that message, WikiMB informed me of the message, and since I knew Luka better, he maybe thought that I would know why he did that. I deleted the message, and asked Luka why he left that message there, and he thought that WikiMB was a sockpuppet, solely for being in Vancouver, speaking Serbo-Croatian and having the letters MB, which someone might interpret as Malagurski Boris. He changed the message when I assured him that WikiMB is not a sockpuppet. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 23:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• Three hours later Bormalagurski erases the comment. This is his FIRST edit at his school-friend's user page!!! And it is a deletion of a comment that someone else has left for User:WikiMB

• • explination above, don't make me repead myself. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 23:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• 5 minutes after the deletion Luka Jacov leaves the same comment without the first phrase about the identity of User:WikiMB

• • explination above, don't make me repead myself. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 23:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• WikiMB appears 5 minutes afterwards and translates the second phrase as if nothing had happened. Bormalagurski disappears until this morning April 5 when he leaves his first post ever on WikiMB's page. In fact they "both" stage a little show. Apparently they both leave a message declaring their innocence at the same time. Then these two proficient editors start publicly wondering if this coincidence might further improve their chances of proving that they are not the same editor. I must admit it is hilarious.

• • OK, I admit that was a stupid idea, and I guess the stupidity is softened by EurowikiJ's comment below that I'm intelligent. My idea to click at the same moment was stupid, and I quickly realised that it proves nothing, so I commented on that on WikiMB's talk page. He wanted to talk more, so we went online, where he has said that he is very disappointed by Misplaced Pages. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 23:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

In conclusion, User:Bormalagurski is an intelligent, but extremely disruptive and manipulative contributor. Any chance of him gaining adminship via proxy must be nipped in the bud. Therefore, block User:WikiMB who has been shown to be User:Bormalagurski's sock-puppet.

EurowikiJ 09:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, this is not about believing anybody, but about evidence. With that in mind, I submitted a request for arbitration here. Anybody is welcome to join in. The Minister of War 09:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Bormalagurski, WP:AGF doesn't mean "ignore evidence that suggests an absence of good faith, to boot". Yes, I don't believe you're being (fully) honest with us. That's because the evidence strongly suggests that it doesn't. Perhaps you'd care to provide a fuller explanation as to why all the evidence, including (but not, by any means, limited to) evidence regarding IP address usage, strongly suggests that you and WikiMB are the same person? Just what is there that you're not telling us? Kelly Martin (talk) 15:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, Kelly, I never ignored any of the evidence, I explained everything quite thoroughly either on this page, or on other pages where I was accused. I am being fully honest with you guys. I am just repeating myself, and you people aren't paying attention, I said that I created the account for WikiMB, he came to my place, on my computer, he lives at the same building, and I showed him how to do some stuff, even sent his first photo, he continued the rest. I'm not sure what you are refering to, when mentioning the same usage of IP adresses, probably because he made his first edits from my computer, and we use the same internet provider (but I really don't know that much about IP addresses, so I wouldn't like to comment more about that). Also, the reason why we don't communicate over Misplaced Pages, and we only did that once, is because we have msn messenger!. Why should I waste my time here, when I can get a responce from him immediately? Also, you made no comments on my proposal to go online with me and WikiMB, which proves that you have no intent in bringing justice to this absurd accusation, but the sole purpose is to ban me for making a few mistakes at the begining of my editing at Misplaced Pages. I have explained everything several times. and you accuse me of IGNORING "evidence"? Everything EurowikiJ wrote above is showing he is ignoring my explinations, by repeating the stuff I already explained. I, however, am willing to expleain EVERYTHING (which I have already done) ONE MORE TIME, if you really want me to. Also, EurowikiJ, thanks for calling me intelligent, it really means a lot to me, coming from you. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 23:21, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I originally tagged Zadar Kristallnacht for POV on my WP:NP patrol a couple of weeks ago, and have not been following this issue closely. User:CeBuCCuCmeM popped up yesterday, his first edit was his userpage, and then on his fourth edit he created Template:Persecution of Serbs, which seems highly POV and stuck it all over the place. I think he may be a sock or meatpuppet. Is amybody interested in investigating? It seems highly unlikely that a first-day editor would know that templating exists, let alone how to create such a complex template.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 01:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Dalmatian_Kristallnacht a User:Nemanyya was created solely to do AfD campaigning, apparently to lobby pro-Serbian voters at AfD.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 01:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure the incident is worth investigating, but we are talking about something else here, and I advise you to report that here, rather than on this discussion. Thank you. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 01:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Really? It looks to me like it is the same topic, apparently new pro-Serbian nationalism editors showing up with an amazing amount of editing ability. Small advice: if you want to retain your credibility don't insist on it going elsewhere since it makes it look like you are trying to split them up so the pattern isn't as obvious. JoshuaZ 02:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, thanks for the advice, but I'm just wondering how stupid do you people think I am. I would never open another account, and I would never have a sockpuppet, what makes you think that I would do that now that I'm accused of having a sockpuppet? How am I supposed to know that EurowikiJ didn't open a new account just so he can accuse me again?

Also, I didn't find it appropriate to report something that has nothing to do with me and WikiMB in a section called "User:WikiMB is a sockpuppet of User:Bormalagurski". Thats all. Hurry and find something else you could use against me! -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 03:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Please calm down. We aren't trying to find things to you use against you. We are trying to get to the bottom of what is going on. And you have been on Misplaced Pages long enough to know that sections allowing discussion often move far from the original section title. There is in any case, no need to for exclamation points. JoshuaZ 03:10, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to calm down, but it seems I will be blocked for a crime I didn't commit, and that's not calming me down. Whats worse, WikiMB has been blocked indefinately, and now I'm losing all hope for justice to prevail. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 03:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Probably you got so much attention because your conduct at en.wikipedia was extremely flamboyant and unobtrusive to say the least, especially the RfA and its motives, and raging flaming wars with Croatian Historian and possibly others as well. Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 03:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I know, I know, I've admitted that I've been behaiving very unappropriately, and have started cooperating even with some Croatian users, like Dr.Gonzo. I have apologized to everyone I may have offended. I made a lot of mistakes, but having a sockpuppet is not one of them. This is the most absurd accusation ever, and I'm afraid that an admin will block me because of my past, even though I've decided to change, and have made several improvements since that decision. -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 04:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

If I can make a recommendation, wait a month and be a good, productive, cooperative editor in that time. Your friend WikiMB can wait a month. If in that time you have been a good editor, people might be more inclined to believe your claim that WikiMB isn't a sock and will consider unblocking him then. JoshuaZ 04:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I can wait, if waiting is what I have to do for justice, then let justice be done. Also, WikiMB has no choice but to wait, considering he has already been blocked forever... Also, I think I have shown that I have ambitions to be a good editor who cooperates with people of different opinions, and it's not fair to punish me for edits I made months ago where I called Milosevic the best guy ever, and similar stuff, I've realized a lot since then, how brainwashed I was, and I really really want another chance. Also, I want WikiMB to be unblocked immediately, there is no reason for blocking him, if you tell him not to edit, he won't edit, he's a pretty nice guy. :-) -- Boris Malagurski ₪ 04:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that Malagurski is right when saying that he keeps repeating himself. In fact, this whole thing has become something of a soap-opera. With every additional note, there is some new aspect as well as a new twist to the connection between him and User:WikiMB. At first they were just a couple of school-friends who discussed Misplaced Pages at school. Here is, however, the latest:

I said that I created the account for WikiMB, he came to my place, on my computer, he lives at the same building, and I showed him how to do some stuff, even sent his first photo, he continued the rest. I'm not sure what you are refering to, when mentioning the same usage of IP adresses, probably because he made his first edits from my computer, and we use the same internet provider (but I really don't know that much about IP addresses, so I wouldn't like to comment more about that). Also, the reason why we don't communicate over Misplaced Pages, and we only did that once, is because we have msn messenger!. Why should I waste my time here, when I can get a responce from him immediately?

Well this is just marvelous. Let me, for the sake of my time, just concentrate on only one apsect of this entirely new development! Didn't User:WikiMB, in order to account for his impressive skill, make the following statement in his first post after this whole thing had started:

It is true that I'm pretty experienced, I've read a bunch of stuff on editing Misplaced Pages, I didn't want to start editing and screw something up. (see here)

Why on earth would then a user who had already read a bunch of stuff on editing Misplaced Pages and who demonstrates such a great skill at creating templates, uploading images, editing tables, knowing Misplaced Pages sythax, and has been aware from the word go of the need for an edit-count link on his page (which is already telling) etc. need someone else to create a Misplaced Pages account for him?!?

I am sorry, I wish I could continue but I am lacking strength. Therefore, I am against any probation. The sockpuppet's account should remain indefinitely blocked.

EurowikiJ 12:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Mistress Selina Kyle

MSK was blocked for a month on March 3 by El C (who was shortening a two-month block of Raul's), and on March 8, MSK started editing as Bob, just Bob (talk · contribs). The contributions leave no doubt that it's MSK and a check-user request has confirmed that technically it is "very likely." I've added 26 days of the month block to MSK's account and blocked Bob indefinitely, though I've told him/her if s/he'd rather edit as Bob from now on, I'll swap the blocks around. See User_talk:Bob,_just_Bob#Block_evasion. SlimVirgin 22:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

• Good idea. If anything, adding just 26 days to the block for this kind of sockpuppetry is lenient. --Cyde Weys 23:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
• That certainly sounds reasonable. For what its worth, a quick look at User:Bob,_just Bob's talk page does not particularly inspire confidence. —Encephalon 23:26, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
• Both accounts are blocked indefinitely (MSK by Dmcdevit). A sad story this, but at this point I see no other way out. Creation of a sockpuppet to continue the edit-warring instead of making a "secret fresh start" does not look good at all. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed- what a sad end to a user with over 4000 edits. Daniel Davis 09:21, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Less than a quarter of those edits are to articles. :) Henry 21:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

August Kreis III

A revert and POV war is being waged and the anonymous IPs aren't up for talking. T K E 23:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Fairness in AfD

Removed post from Amorrow. SlimVirgin 23:20, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Closing admins rarely weigh 'votes' by new users and anons when determining consensus among editors, so the semi-protection won't affect the outcome in the slightest. It's a shame that vandals made semi-protection necessary, but it was the right thing to do. --Sam Blanning 23:14, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

71.139.169.121 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) I just caught one for you. Blocked for 15 mins only to give others time to review. --kingboyk 23:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC) (I'm going to bed soon, and don't have time to check whois, previous block lengths etc)

Page from my user space speedy deleted and blocked

Someone speedy deleted a page from my user space and blocked it. Please undo this, people express all kinds of opinions on their pages and no one should be censored because others disagree. ROGNNTUDJUU! 00:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I speedy deleted the user subpage in question, added a "deleted" template to it, and protected the page; the page was User:ROGNNTUDJUU!/User against Iraq war of aggression. The reason for this is because it was a recreation of a formerly speedied userbox, Template:User against Iraq war of aggression that had been deleted by several administrators under T1, and had been recreated by this user on successive occasions. This userfied version had been transcluded on the user's page in a similar manner to the original template, and it seemed clear the intention was for the userfied version to be used transcluded in place of the mainspace template. Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox for the purposes of political canvassing, nor is it a place to promote judgements on whether wars were "wars of aggression" or whether politicians should stand criminal trial. --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 00:49, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

If you had only wanted to prevent recreation of the template you could have blocked that page. You blocked a page in my user space, that is censorship, and this uncommented revert of factual information shows how counterproductively you behave. ROGNNTUDJUU! 01:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Two of the pages in my user space were again deleted by this admin, User:ROGNNTUDJUU!/User against Iraq war of aggression, and User:ROGNNTUDJUU!/GOP criminal, please stop censorship! ROGNNTUDJUU! 01:43, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Why not get a myspace account? --Tony Sidaway 01:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

We have no rule against what you're calling "censorship", ROGNNTUDJUU!, and good admins will "censor" this kind of political soapboxery every time. We do have a rule against using Misplaced Pages resources for non-encyclopedic, inflammatory, transcluded templates. Other editors have already advised you to stay away from political userboxes; take that advice. Misplaced Pages is not here for you to wave political flags around; that's what the rest of the Internet is for. -GTBacchus 02:04, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

There are all kinds of political userboxes. Singling out mine because you do not like them does not speak highly of you. I however see the point of "divisiveness". That is why it has become common to userfy boxes. Deleting those is just censorship, and there is NO rule allowing this. ROGNNTUDJUU! 02:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Try pasting the code for one directly onto your user page, instead of using it as a transcluded template. I don't think the new userbox policy has really settled down yet, but you're liable to be safer with substed code than with separate pages set up for transclusion. The theory is: if you use it as a template, then it's a template, no matter what namespace it's in. -GTBacchus 02:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

NicholasTurnbull also deleted template:user independent Iraq in spite of a consensus to keep it. ROGNNTUDJUU! 02:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC) There was no consensus (06:44, 28 March 2006) . Struck false statement. Netscott 11:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

There was a clear majority against deletion. ROGNNTUDJUU! 12:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I have backed up Nicholas by deleting reposts of this template three times. ROGNNTUDJUU! has now reposted it four times within a couple of hours. I'm inclined to treat this as a WP:3RR situation: I won't re-delete as I have already deleted three times in a brief period. You might like to consider deleting the fourth re-post, and whether ROGNNTUDJUU!'s fourth reposting is a 3RR violation. Background at User talk:ROGNNTUDJUU!#Re: Stop deleting pages that were voted to be kept and Template talk:User independent Iraq. Snottygobble 04:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

That is great, administrators ignore votes and delete in the others' user space without any legitimation and the complain about those who resist. I tried to find a consensus on talk all the time, you just did not listen and abused your powers. ROGNNTUDJUU! 04:32, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Reposting of deleted content may be speedily deleted on sight; you know that. Despite what you write above, there was no consensus to keep the template; the result of the debate was no consensus, and you know that too. If you think Nicholas's deletion was inappropriate, you can request a review at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review, but you already know that. Snottygobble 04:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Reposting of deleted content that had a 9 to 5 vote to be kept comes just natural. If you think deletion was appropriate you need to request a review at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review. ROGNNTUDJUU! 05:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I deleted Template:User independent Iraq as it is clearly divisive and inflammatory. Please spend more time editing the encyclopedia and less time testing the limits of your Misplaced Pages freedom. Rhobite 04:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

As administrator Mike Rosoft pointed out, reposting of deleted content is completely ok in user space, and there is no legitimation at all to speedy delete from other users' space. There furthermore was a clear majority to keep the template. Deleting it and then start a new count for recreation is just bad manners. ROGNNTUDJUU! 13:56, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Singling out one user, ignoring decisions that were already taken, and deleting his boxes even in his user space is clearly abuse of admin powers. De mortuis... 14:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

If an act is carried out in the interests of the encyclopedia (and that's what we're here for folks, this isn't a chat forum or a political debating house) I can't consider it abuse. --kingboyk 14:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Quit whining, wikilawyering, whatever. Divisive userboxes are bad for the project, period. We can and will delete them. If you want to express your opinion that the Iraq war was an act of agression, do it elsewhere, because we here are too busy writing an encyclopaedia to care what you think about the Iraq War. Open a myspace account. Werdna648/_C\ 14:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

"Quit whining" is foul language, and you cannot treat one guy you do not like in a discriminatory way. That is not in the interest of any encyclopedia. De mortuis... 15:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that discriminating against the use of Misplaced Pages as a soapbox is rather explicitly in the interest of the encyclopedia. From the user's talk page: "I want the pages unblocked such that other users can use it and link to each other." What has that got to do with writing an encyclopedia? That kind of networking by POV is the reason that ideological userboxes are bad. It's also precisely what lots of other websites, like myspace, are for. -GTBacchus 16:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

There simply is no rule that allows to remove such things from the user space. If you do not like it, try to find consensus about it. Unless there is any, stop spreading mischief. ROGNNTUDJUU! 16:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

unindent. Quit wikilawyering. Misplaced Pages is not a beuracracy. And yes, there is a rule about it in any case, see WP:UP There is consensus to delete the page - notice the lack of support for your position and multitude of editors telling you to build a bridge and get over it. Werdna648/_C\ 22:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing at WP:UP or anywhere else that allows deletion of other users' subpages because you do not like the opinions expressed there. ::This had already been pointed out by admin Mike Rosoft who had recreated the page. There is no consensus to delete the pages. De mortuis... 00:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, how about "Personal statements that could be considered polemical, such as opinions on matters unrelated to Misplaced Pages", under "What can I not have on my userpage". In any case, the rules do not matter, the fact that consensus here is to delete them and keep them deleted does. Werdna648/_C\ 00:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

There are just a bunch of people ignoring the policy and attaching greater importance to their personal preferences. If you deleted all personal statements that could be considered polemical you would have to delete even all userfied boxes like "against Marxism", "pro life", "against gun control"... This will never happen, and deletion is abuse of admin powers. I file a complaint if User:Dmcdevit who deleted cannot be convinced he violated the policy. De mortuis... 01:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Feel free. Take us to ArbCom if you like! Werdna648/_C\ 11:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Now someone protected my page, claiming I used fair use images. I replaced them, it must be an error. ROGNNTUDJUU! 12:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Zephram Stark sockpuppet?

American Saga (talk · contribs). My only evidence is that this edit seems very strange for a new user. --JW1805 (Talk) 01:55, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• The evidence suggests that this is extremely unlikely. Jayjg 17:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
• Very odd.... --JW1805 (Talk) 20:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Daniel Brandt

Daniel_Brandt (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) is making silly legal threats on his user page again, citing a new Federal law that almost certainly (1) doesn't apply to this site and (2) is blatantly unconstitutional if it does. (But IANAL.) *Dan T.* 03:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

He should never have been unblocked. But, what do I know, eh? --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 05:10, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, am I the only one who finds it ironic that someone who claims to be concerned about privacy is essentially making a threat to strip other people of theirs? JoshuaZ 13:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC) And having just looked at his "hivemind" page, I don't see why he shouldn't be indef blocked until he takes it down. He has massively violated the privacy of many Wikipedians. If that isn't continual harassment, I don't know what is. JoshuaZ 13:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

--kingboyk 15:11, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Now he's claiming people are harassing him, he's threatening individual editors, he posted a legal threat on his user page, and now on the Misplaced Pages Review he's threatening to add to the hivemind page anybody who votes delete on the legal threat on his talk page. I'm permanently blocking this troll again and removing the threat. Gamaliel 18:21, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Good someone has taken actrion against a blatant legal threat, SqueakBox 18:24, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Somebody unblock him. I'm no friend of his, and I don't agree with his methods, but blocking him is not the way to go. Werdna648/_C\ 21:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree; we blocked people over less severe stuff as this. This guy, from the diffs I see above, is doing everything under the sun to bully his way onto Misplaced Pages. He has threatened other users too, and I am not going to stand by and watch this happen. User:Zscout370 23:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

He's not a vandal. There has to be a better way to solve this than to block him. Werdna648/_C\ 23:24, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

What do you suggest? He won't be happy until he has complete editorial control over Misplaced Pages. Shall we just give that to him? Kelly Martin (talk) 02:12, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict with message directly below) How would you feel if you were one of the people whose names he has posted on his hivemind page? His repeated threats, posting of private information and other behavior is so far beyond the pale that I'm not sure I'd support his unblocking if he came back on his hands and knees. And in any event, it is completely unacceptable to allow him to edit while the Hivemind page is up. JoshuaZ 02:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to negotiate a solution with him, although he is quickly running out of options and resorting to personal attacks about mine and NSLE's ages. I'm doing my very best, but I'm beginning to get the impression that he's very reluctant, if inclined at all, to negotiate. Werdna648/_C\ 02:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

although he is quickly running out of options What ARE you talking about? What options is he "running out of"? For what alternative? --Calton | Talk 03:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm happy with keeping him blocked for the time being. Might give him an incentive to negotiate. Although the hivemind page has become somewhat of a joke or rite of passage around here, I'm quite disappointed that he hasn't added me yet, but fingers crossed.. ;). Werdna648/_C\ 02:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Not very relevant, how will other users feel if they know that Misplaced Pages lets someone edit while he has a page containing the personal info of users he dislikes? If I cared about my privacy at all, I wouldn't be happy with it, and I suspect neither would most users. Just because Brandt is a clown doesn't mean he gets a free pass. JoshuaZ 02:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

If you don't want your personal information compiled by Brandt, don't release it. I don't have any info on my userpage that can be linked to me. If I get on the page, I'll probably laugh for a bit that Brandt is sad enough to put me on his list of people he dislikes, then I will get over it. This is the type of coping mechanism that you can see all the time. Somebody who feels rejected by general society puts together a "kill list", seeing this as a form of revenge. It can normally be seen in schoolkids who get bullied. I'm not worried in the least by it. Werdna648/_C\ 02:42, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

If you don't want your personal information compiled by Brandt, don't release it. What utter bilge. Misplaced Pages shouldn't have to bend to the peculiar whims of Brandt. --Calton | Talk 03:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I personally wouldn't care either, but other users will (I know at least once admin who became furious when a user used the admin's first name on a talk page) and the precedent it sets is awful. Given this, I'm highly worried about letting you negotiate. In negotiations, who are you representing and in what capacity? JoshuaZ 12:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm simply trying to get him to work out his problems with the article, rather than trying to have it deleted, and making legal threats, hivemind, et cetera. Werdna648/_C\ 14:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Scorpionman

I think thjis user needs some cooling down time. He started with this post , which he later admited that it was invented , which the continued insunuation that we think that way about him. I before that had asked him to retract his quote , and indicated that I would report him here if he would stand with it. I think he needs some thinking time on his role on Misplaced Pages, as he is continiously trolling evolution and related pages with repeated asertions of lacking NPOV etc, and he gets worse over time with now resulted in invented insults. KimvdLinde 03:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I dealt with him before on Talk:Evolution and it wasn't pretty. Every so often we get these anti-science creationist kooks. We just keep whacking 'em individually but more inevitably pop up. --Cyde Weys 04:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I admit the made-up insults were wrong and rather foolish. Really. But here you are calling creationists "anti-science kooks"! You'd consider it a personal attack if I said that about evolutionists! Scorpionman 20:17, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Scorpion, after making up those insults, you aren't surprised that he would respond that way at all? JoshuaZ 21:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

He's calling every creationist a kook. That's almost clarifying what I said in my invented insults! Scorpionman 15:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it isn't anywhere close. He said "these anti-science creationist kooks" which does not by any means imply that all creationists are kooks. In fact, given that there are creationists constantly on the evolution talk page, if he meant all of them he would not have said "every so often." Try reading things slowly and assuming a tiny bit of good faith. JoshuaZ 15:17, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

User:SlimVirgin

Despite pleas, User:SlimVirgin has reverted animal rights 3 times without adequate discussion. She says on her user page she is particularly interested in animal rights and the Middle East.:

• She has introduced her views on Israel into the animal rights page.
• She has placed bulk quotes into the page despite being advised of wikiquote.
• She has ignored detailed discussion on the talk page
• She has slurred me by suggesting I posted a message when a quick check could have shown her her mistake.
• She claims her version has been agreed but refuses to demonstrate this when requested.

I hope someone can help. Mccready 08:20, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The talk page for that article has several posts from SlimVirgin — seven in the last few days — so I don't see that she's reverting "without adequate discussion". She doesn't seem to have violated 3RR, either. This noticeboard isn't really meant for reporting content disputes. Why not try an article RfC? See here for guidance. AnnH ♫ 08:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I've looked at the article in question. SlimVirgin might have an editorial disagreement regarding the animal rights page, but she hasn't violated any policies on here. Furthermore, your claim that she has "introduced her views on Isreal" doesn't seem to be supported by the diffs; the difference between the statements "Israel bans dissections of animals" and "The State of Israel, meanwhile, has banned dissections of animals" only seems to have the difference of the addition of the word "State" in it. Your claim that she has "slurred" you isn't supported by any evidence as well. From my point of view, this appears to be entirely an editing conflict, with no rules violated. I suggest you seek consensus from the other editors on the Animal Rights page about which version is the most appropriate, rather than coming here. Daniel Davis 08:36, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

This is much more than an editing conflict. She has not properly discussed my detailed points. The slur is obvious. Why does she insist on describing Israel as "the state of Israel". What about the quotes. This is a failure to consult. And she acutally HAS violated 3RR. Mccready 08:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I would have to disagree. In regards to the 3RR, she hasn't violated the letter of the 3RR- if you look at the edits carefully, you'll see that she spaced out her reversions to just scratch past the rule (she waited about 10 minutes past when the 3RR deadline passed before she made her fourth revert). Israel is a nation-state, which is why it is referred to as "The State of Isreal". I see a lack of discussion on the pages, but I don't see any rules broken- I do see that she has displayed a rather disturbing lack of editing tact (considering that she is an administrator). Admins should take care to maintain both the letter AND the spirit of the law, so to speak. If she reverts again, she will have committed a 3RR violation, but at the moment she hasn't. Daniel Davis 08:49, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

3RR = 3Apr 21.27, 4Apr 1.33, 7.09, 7.15. But i'd be happy with some cooperation from her. Mccready 10:24, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Nobody else edited between 1:33, 7:09, and 7:15. The first of those was a revert, but how could the other two be, unless she was reverting herself? Are you saying that she's not allowed to edit four times in a 24-hour period? AnnH ♫ 10:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Mccready, Assume good faith per SlimVirgin's edits. FloNight 11:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Mccready has come at this page as a newish editor (signed up in June 2005, but started editing significantly in February 2006) and has made substantial changes to Animal rights without prior discussion, though the talk page cautions it's a controversial article. He has decimated the intro, which was agreed between a number of editors a few weeks ago, and has removed the criticism from it. As for 3RR, I've reverted four times in 60 hours: April 2 at 13:34, April 3 at 21:27, April 4 at 01:33, and April 5 at 01:43. It's worth noting that Mccready has previously threatened people who revert his edits: here he threatens to report Steth for vandalism and restores this POV intro to Chiropractic: "Chiropractic is a religion and controversial system of health care founded by the crank Daniel David Palmer." He has elsewhere threatened another user with an RfC over a standard content dispute (can't find the diff right now), and threatened me with an RfC because I reverted him, labeling his own reverts "second warning," "third warning," which I must admit has not exactly endeared him to me. SlimVirgin 21:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

User:SlimVirgin rewrites history. I was happy to accept the consensus reached on chiropractic and not put the reglious point in the lead. It remains, by consensus, in the article. Her labelling my edits as POV is unfortunate. I give good reasons for my edits, reasons which are accepted by the majority of editors I work with. In terms of WP behaviour, it should be noted that she does not defend her actions in reverting without proper discussion, she has not provided evidence that an earlier version was agreed, she has not said which particular point in the lead she believes is essential, she has not addressed my detailed points, and she now insists on referring to an earlier edit which I was happy to delete (she does not appear to have read my agreement to this). I have found many instances where she has been rude to other users but will not post them here as that would be pointless at this stage. I simply ask, for the fourth time, that she uses the discussion page properly.

Yes I am a new user and I apologise for not properly understanding 3RR. I expect an apology from User:SlimVirgin for slurring me regarding a post made by another user. Mccready 06:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Johnny the Vandal

On seeing a report farther up the page on a new Johnny the Vandal sock, I ran a checkuser to determine if there were other accounts, and particularly if there were undetected ones. As a result, I have blocked a fairly large sock farm across three IPs, as well as blocking those IPs for a week each, as thre was nothing but Johnny vandalsim coming off them. Essjay 09:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Leyasu violating ArbCom Revert Parole Again

His ArbCom decision limited him to one revert per article today. He has violated this ruling in the Gothic Metal article. Both reverts consisting of removal of a rewrite tag that was agreed upon overwhelmingly in the Talk Page. FYI, he has been blocked numerous times for 3RR violations since the ArbCom ruling. --Danteferno 12:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Please note. Danteferno is the confirmed sockpuppet of User:Deathrocker who is currently on a 1 month ban for Serial Vandalism. Also note, that Danteferno is on the same revert parole as i am, and violated his revert parole first by reverting my edits , , .

The user has also been turned away by the abbirrition committe after attempting to Wikilawyer against them for not banning me from Misplaced Pages, after the use of his sockpuppets and bans and open bragging that he can revert me whenever he likes

An arbcom case against Danteferno also lodged that there was never any consensus for the rewrite tag. I removed the Rewrite tag from the page as part of WP:HMM which i am a highly active member of. Danteferno has claimed that he is the consensus, even though the only other user to support his rewrite position is a user with edits only on the Gothic Metal talk page.

As such, Danteferno has lodged this complaint against me because i removed a tag from an article as part of a project full of users that Danteferno doesnt like, and has openly lodged complaints about before, amongst vandalisng user pages (most recently my own) and threatening any admin that will not support his claim. Further examples of this can be seen in ban summary for the Deathrocker case. Ley Shade 12:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Leyasu, you are playing rather fast and loose with the 'confirmed sockpuppet' accusation: the only sockpuppet check I can find on them is now at Requests for CheckUser/Archive/March 2006 and was returned with a verdict of "Inconclusive". All of you need to behave. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Threats by User:24.193.230.197 / User:JoeMele

I suspect that JoeMele made these anonymous threats on my talk page: "I am going to find you IRL" and "I am coming for you". I suspect this user as he "vigorously disputed" a couple edits I made and strangely went silent for the period of time when these anonymous comments were made, then reappeared shortly thereafter with a new edit. What you do with this is (obviously) up to you, but I don't appreciate threats like that. Hope someone with 'checkuser' will look into it and let me know if I'm wrong. ⇒ BRossow /_C 12:40, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• I placed a one-week block on User:24.193.230.197. There is also an RfCU open for this pair; further action will depend on its outcome of that. – ClockworkSoul 15:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Looks like CheckUser confirmed that they are one and the same, and Essjay indef blocked both. Hey kids, see what happens when you can't keep your cool? – ClockworkSoul 15:51, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I didn't indefblock the IP, just the user account, but I certainly don't see any reason a longer block couldn't and shouldn't be imposed. Essjay 15:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Checkuser confirms that 24.193.230.197 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) is used exclusively by JoeMele (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log); as such, I have blocked JoeMele indefinitely for threats against other contributors. I have not altered ClockworkSoul's week long block of the IP address, but there is no evidence of other contributing from that address, so a longer block should provide a minimum of collateral damage. Essjay 15:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

• Thank you for the quick action. I appreciate it. ⇒ BRossow /_C 21:35, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

City of Vaughan editors

Related to the Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Eyeonvaughan, I have been looking into the contributions of user:Eyeonvaughan and user:VaughanWatch. I beleive that user:VaughanWatch is a sockpuppet of user:Eyeonvaughan based on their edit histories (the two never overlap, but edit on the same days on the same/related articles. They then don't edit for a few days, but when one isn't editing neither is the other - I have a spreadsheet that shows this but don't know how to get it on Misplaced Pages), their style of editing and persistent personal attacks against user:Pm shef and user:Bearcat. There are multiple AfDs and at least one deletion review on which they have both voted. I also suspect that User:Hars Alden (note particularly this edit to user talk:Hars Alden where user:VaughanWatch leaves the edit summary "It's my talk page") is another sockpuppet, although I haven't checked in detail. Based on the articles they have contributed to and this personal attack-laden edit accusing user:Bearcat of being the same person as user:Pm shef (which user:Eyeonvaughan frequently does) and of having a sockpuppet, I think User:CasanovaAlive is probably another of the family of sockpuppets. IPs User:70.29.239.249 (which is the account CassanovaAlive alleges is Bearcat's sockpuppet) and User:69.198.130.82 have also been linked to this on the RfC page. I would like someone else to check this and block as necessary. I am assuming that user:Eyeonvaughan is the primary account as that is the one that arrived first. Thryduulf 13:27, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Did you request a checkuser on WP:RFCU? --Syrthiss 14:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I will do now, I didn't know that page existed! Thryduulf 14:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I have blocked VaughanWatch (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for 24 hours for persistent personal attacks, despite numerous warnings from numerous users. For the record, the straw that broke the camel's back was this edit to Misplaced Pages:Deletion review. Full disclosure: I am one of the users certifying the ongoing RfC above. Thryduulf 01:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Abuse of admin "rollback" privilege

Duncharris (talk · contribs) has on at least 3 occasions removed a "notability" -requested tag from an article using admin rollback button, without explaining it in any other way. In each case, the removal of the notability tag wasn't in consideration of any changes to the article's text that asserted notability of the subject. User has responded rudely to any request for clarification, retorting with comments like If you get enough chimpanzees with enough typewriters they are capable of adding stupid tags to all articles),. Following are the diffs:

• Rollback 1 on Michael Pease
• rollback 1, 2 on Elizabeth Haldane

The admin buttons are for removing vandalism. Genuine requests for references, notability citations should not be removed using the admin privileges. Judging from the user's attitude and rudeness, I have to say that this type of behavior is a blatant abuse of admin privileges. Thanks. --Ragib 15:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I won't comment if the person are notable or not, but I agree that Duncharris' response to your comment on his talk page was totally unacceptable. Lapinmies 15:49, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Do Dunc and Ragib have a history before this of differences or disputes? There seems to be an amount of irritability here that normally doesn't just occur but builds up over time.

Anyway, administrator rollback, while there is not full consensus that it cannot ever be used on other than vandalism, does not give a useful edit summary and thus should only be used when no edit summary is needed. Since no explanation is given by its use, I would consider it in breach of the spirit of Civility to use it to revert the changes of a well-meaning contributor. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:25, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Prior to yesterday, I've never come across Duncharris (talk · contribs). My first contact with him was the Elizabeth Haldane page, and my first message to him was a request for asserting notability of the person, the reply to which has been referenced above. In case of the 2nd article, Michael Pease, I added a note in the talk page of the article regarding a question on the subject's notability. I believe reverting a request for that using admin-capabilities was not the proper way to remove the tag. I looked at the article again, and I'm yet to see any references, any comments/citations or assertions of the subject's notability. Therefore, removing a tag in such a way is a blatant abuse.

As for Duncharris (talk · contribs), I don't have any other history of interaction with him in the past, other than these two articles. Thanks. --Ragib 18:32, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

It's not notably polite of Duncharris. But it seems rather a minor matter to bring up on the noticeboard as "blatant abuse". Bishonen | talk 19:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC).

Note. This section duplicates an already-existing thread at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Seeking clarification. Ragib, I've already asked Dunc to take care to be more civil in the future, and I will enforce that with blocks if necessary. Is there a particular reason that you've reposted an old complaint here? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:33, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

This is *after* you asked him. Look at the diff on Michael Pease. Dunc hasn't bothered to even comment on a legitimate request for sources, citations and notability, and rather used *again* his admin rollback privileges to revert the tag. Looking at the history of the page, it appears that the article was created by him, which makes it even more interesting. Wasn't he, as the author of the page, supposed to supply sources when requested (as per WP:V), rather than reverting the tag? Admins are held at higher standards, but my recent encounter with Dunc makes me wonder why he's so reluctant to even respond to a request in a civil manner, and invokes his admin privileges arbitrarily. Thanks. --Ragib 22:40, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

(added after edit conflict) Investigating further, I note that Ragib added the tag to Michael Pease after the complaint he posted at WP:AN was discussed. In that regard, the complaint above does address one new edit. I note that while Dunc's response in the Haldane case was inappropriate, Ragib should be very careful to avoid giving the impression that he is now deliberately trolling Duncharris by adding notability tags to Dunc's articles. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, would you please tell me why Dunc's behavior regarding this is acceptable, but mine is considered trolling? Also, why is adding a legitimate tag to an article considered trolling? I add prod or csd or notability tags to many articles one a given day. Why is 1) incivil, personal attacks tolerated in case of an admin? The response is not "inappropriate" as you say, that's incivil, and if an ordinary user made it, perhaps a block or warning would be in effect. 2) Also, In case of an ordinary user, wouldn't you consider unexplained tag reverts an act of vandalism?

Now, would you take a look at Michael Pease and tell me if I am wrong to add this tag there? Wouldn't you have done the same? Or does my previous message regarding Elizabeth Haldane bar me from making any edits on an article started by Dunc? Thanks. --Ragib 23:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

imminent ban of User:WAREL

We've filed an an RfC against User:WAREL and his sock User:DYLAN LENNON. He was unblocked to allow him to comment on the RfC. He has not commented on the RfC, but has continued his revert warring ways in the meantime. We're thinking of skipping ArbCom and going straight to a permban based on exhausting the community's patience. Comments and criticisms welcome. -lethe 15:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead and indef block the sock, I will sit and think about the puppetmaster. User:Zscout370 15:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Bear in mind that this is a repeat offender. Isopropyl 20:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Request semi-protection of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jonathan Williams (pastor) (2nd nomination)

This AfD discussion is being flooded with new users and IP trying to delete the article. It appears that some people who view themselves as the "real" Aryan nation object to Jonathan Williams' identification as an Aryan Nation pastor. Whether or not Williams is notable is one thing, AfD is not the place for a content dispute, especially one pushed by sockpuppetry. Even though closing admins discount new editors, I request sprotection becuase there seems to be a conceted effort to flood the zone here. Thanks. Thatcher131 17:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

As it currently stands I don't think that it merits semi-protection. There are a lot of new users, but it doesn't seem as though it is unmanagable. If this changes then ask again. Thryduulf 17:29, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

OK. Thatcher131 17:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

For future reference, requests for page protection go on WP:RFPP --pgk 18:27, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I've set up a "New user corral" for the anons. Good work tagging them. Mackensen (talk) 02:39, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, it looks like the other dance partner, 66.110.197.20 (talk · contribs) has shown up at the party, plus 24.171.16.151 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) trashed your corral. You sure I was premature about sprotection? I'm going to bed and don't have time to fix this now. Thatcher131 05:21, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Sam Spade blocked

I have blocked Sam Spade (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for 24 hours for what can only be considered as harrassment and threats against another user (in this case, Bishonen (talk · contribs)). See his recent edits to "Re:" on Bishonen's talk page for details. Sam Spade also has an ongoing RFC that is closely related to these issues. --Cyde Weys 20:00, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

He was also repeatedly warned on his talk page by Fuzzie as well as by Bishonen and he did not stop. --Cyde Weys 20:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's a link to the whole conversation between Bishonen and Sam Spade (she has since removed it from her talk page). --Cyde Weys 20:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Oops, yes, I just removed the entire thread from my page, I wasn't about to force SS to keep his personal family stuff up there. He was trying to make me remove my input from his RFC (I'd written the only Outside View that other users were endorsing), on pain of continued harassment, after I'd asked him three times to stop posting on my page. Bishonen | talk 20:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC).

I looked through that thread and nothing there warrants a block right now. Subjects of RFCs are permitted to contact those involved. They arn eiot permitted ot harass, but there was no harassment here. It was all, surprisingly civil. It was a discussion that, at times, got a little heated, but nothing over the line. If anything it was Bishonen who got more into it, but he/she is not blocked (nor should he/she be). But if Sam is going ot be blocked then he/she should be too. Please unblock.Gator (talk) 20:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Looking through the RFC in question...Clyde, you certified the basis for the dispute and are involved in that process. As such, you really shouldn't be blocking him and should have referred this to a neutral admin for his/her opinion. Please unblock or I, as a neutral party, will have to.Gator (talk) 20:25, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

This issue isn't really relevant to the RFC. And I did bring the block here for review by fellow admins. --Cyde Weys 20:29, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with Gator here. (full disclosure I'm involved in the RfC and endorsed Bishonen's statement) Sam's comments while self-righteous, condescending, dramatic and unproductive, do not seem to have yet risen to the level that would constitute blockable harassement. 20:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Sam has contacted me, as an uninvolved administrator, and I agree that there's nothing worthy of a 24-hour block here. Perhaps a brief cooldown period, but I think it's been long enough for that. I don't see anything uncivil, a personal attack, or any rule violations. Therefore, I have unblocked Sam Spade. Feel free to address me on my talk page or by e-mail about this. Andre (talk) 20:27, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a basis for this claim? Can you point to a description of harrassment which this does not fall under? or is this merely your opinion? - Amgine 20:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The proper questions is not "what is the basis for the unblock". The proper question should be "what is the basis for the block?" Answer: none. Therefore, he was corretly unblocked. That is my and Andrevan's opinions as uninvolved neutral admins. I fully support it and will unblock any attempt to reinstate the block.Gator (talk) 20:35, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I am thinking (full disclosure, also involved in the Rfc) that Sam's clear implications that Bishonen cannot be spoken to "as a human being" and Sam's declaration that he "won't make that mistake again" constitutes a clear personal attack. One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahua 20:36, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Full disclosure: not at all aware there is an RfC. But read "three requests not to post on my page"... Did you also realize there is a policy regarding unblocking? - Amgine 20:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict with Sam) He should be given a big {{npa}} on his talk page, and if he does it again, give him a 24 hour block, his behavior seems to me to be not quite blockable. Also as a non-admin, may I ask you guys to please not have a wheel war over this? JoshuaZ 20:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

He was given one, by Fuzzie. He then questioned Fuzzie's authority to place one there, and continued to harass Bish. See his talk page. KillerChihuahua 20:46, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I guess I can edit now. I just want to say I never intended to harass or threaten bishonen (I'm not sure how I could threaten her, its not like I'm an Uberhacker or anything...). Quite the contrary, I hjad been led to believe by a mutual friend that she was a nice person. I thought that if I let my guard down, and spoke to her from the heart, she might change her mind about me. That obviously did not happen, and I apologise to everyone for the mess. I am going to avoid conflict for awhile, and see if things can simmer down. Sam Spade 20:39, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

A good way to avoid conflict is to not call editors who disagree with you "hoodlums". JoshuaZ 21:00, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Or "POV artists." FeloniousMonk 22:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't object to the quick unblocking of Sam Spade, even though I was glad he was stopped short by a block, since he seemed to be spinning out of controll, getting only more angry and more imperious and contemptuous for being warned and for being urged to stop posting on my page. A very brief block was obviously enough to make him catch himself up. But I feel quite let down by Andre's not seeing "anything uncivil" in Sam's attempt to scold me out of that RFC, or in his majestic personal remarks ("I am chastising you for your unfortunate involvement in the RfC in question...") Also by Gator's perception that all that happened on my talkpage was that the subject of an RFC "contacted" one of those involved and initiated a "discussion", "a little heated but nothing over the line", and in which I was the one who "got more into it". Certainly I got angry. I was making what I still think a very reasonable request that Sam take his flames off my page; the RFC does have its own talkpage, which would have been an appropriate venue. Well, if you can talk about any appropriate venues for "chastising" fellow editors. No disrespect, but are you guys who see no incivility sure you know what "chastise" means? The thesaurus Wordsmyth.net offers the synonyms punish, whip, discipline, slap, cane, cuff, smack, castigate, wallop, discipline, thrash, spank, whip, beat, lambaste, belt, tongue-lash, berate, rebuke, censure , excoriate, upbraid, take to task, scold, reprimand, and bawl out. Apart from the kinky stuff, where I wouldn't inquire of anybody's tastes, how's that for posting a comment on an effing Request for comments? (A perfectly civil comment, btw.)
SS insisted repeatedly that he would not stop unless and until I "removed myself" from "the situation", justifying himself by my "provocative action" of posting to the RFC. "I will stop posting on your page when there is no longer a reason to. .. a RfC is designed to provoke dialogue, and is to be engaged in only by those willing to communicate. If you are not ... I again ask you to remove yourself from the proceedings." And yet a couple of hours later SS is in victim mode here and on his own page, pretending that all he ever wanted was for me to remove his comments from my page (!) and to make it clear that I didn't want to talk (dear reader, if you've clicked on Cyde's link above, how soon was that clear to YOU?): ""She did what I asked by deleting the thread and making clear she didn't want to talk, so I have no reason to contact her that I know of." This is mere sleight-of-hand and misdirection after his attacks on me for daring to criticize him in an RFC. Bishonen | talk 23:30, 6 April 2006 (UTC).

Sam Spade is classic passive-aggressive and a lot of editors, including admins, are being fooled by it. --Cyde Weys 23:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry you felt let down by my response, and I sincerely hope the insanity graphic in your user space isn't my fault. Keep in mind that I have the utmost respect for you (Bishonen) as a contributor, editor, admin, human being, etc. Also, I've tangled (unfavorably) with Sam Spade in the past (see the Talk:Atheism archives).

However, I do feel that Sam Spade's discussion on your talk page was not actually uncivil or mean. Rude would be a good word, I think, but rudeness is not a personal attack and it is not reason to block. Clearly Sam wasn't using chastise to mean "To punish, as by beating."/punish, whip, beat, belt, or wallop (after all, how was he doing these things? Can you whip someone over the internet?) but rather the second definition of "To criticize severely; rebuke." Sam Spade's discussion on your talk page was condescending, patronizing, and somewhat rude, but it definitely was not a punishment, in any sense of the word (and I also feel chastise was a bid of an overly strong word choice, because he really wasn't criticizing that much).

I felt the situation actually escalated to truly heated levels at your comment of "Get off my page and stay off it. Now." That's when Sam got passive agressive (still not a clear personal attack and not entirely unprovoked), and you rose to the bait and responded in kind. At any time, you could have merely ignored Sam's responses, or reverted them and/or cleared that section of the page, but as long as you continued to respond, Sam was not harassing you, merely engaging in the increasingly heated dialogue. You do have the right to stop the discussion, but you did not truly invoke it.

Once again, I mean you no harm, emotional or otherwise, and I just didn't feel that a 24-hour block was necessary for the mutual heat and rudeness that the exchange showed. I also think that the dislike many feel for Sam Spade and the (rightful) esteem many feel for you (Bishonen) contributed to the situation being handled as it was, in a way not entirely fair or just. Andre (talk) 00:05, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

And for you semantics fans out there, I'll add that I consider "uncivil" to be malicious or derogatory, while "rude" is lacking in niceties, tact, manners, or subtlety. Andre (talk) 00:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Andre, I'm pleased that I have always been able to speak to you "as a human being" and not otherwise (whatever that implies), still, I'm afraid that you are not so much drowning in semantics, but that this is more a case of selective reading, and dare I say, (seemingly) presonal bias. Incidentally, I will continue to support your RfB attempts, even though I do fear that with your rather consistent defence of SS throughout the years, bureaucrat status will render his misconduct all the more damaging (a measure of my esteem toward yourself is that I would still support you notwithstanding this). We already have members of the establishment who tend to similarly support SS (for example, Theresa Knott), and I feel that their efforts have also at times proved damaging to the project. Unfortunately, attempts to raise these issues have thus far failed, and I see little hope of improvement. El_C 02:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Imposter username

BoMEpsilon (talk · contribs), sounds awfully close to my username. Not really sure what to think of this user. Claims on his talk page that he never heard of me, but I'm a little weary around possible imposter accounts? His edit seem to be questionable too. Moe ε 20:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Well the users edits go back to November 2005, I was of the impression (I could be wrong) that you adopted your current username after that date, if that's the case he'd need to be clairvoyant to be an imposter of you. --pgk 20:56, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, didn't see that his edits extended back that far. I just saw his most recent edits in February/March. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Moe ε 21:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

User:CIyde

There were a string of vandal usernames running amok earlier; I blocked one (MechanicalGenius (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)) that I spotted on RC patrol. Given his claims of being a repeat vandal, and due to a lot of similar vandalism going on at the same time, I ran a checkuser to look for unnoticed socks, and to block the IP if possible. I've complied a brief report at User:Essjay/Checkuser/Cases/CIyde; I settled on calling it the "CIyde" vandal because that was the first username registered. The IP traces to the University of South Florida and there is at least one legit contributor who has used it in the past; I am going to contact ITS there and let them handle it, after contacting the legit user to let them know what is going on (in case they are questioned). I blocked the IP for a week (the legit user in question hasn't used it for several weeks) but if there appears to be an collateral damage, please unblock. Essjay 21:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to chime in and say that I do not like the name you've picked for this particular vandal :-O Cyde Weys 21:36, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure his original incarnation was to attack you; if you like, we can call him something else, but you have to go change all the sock tags! ;-D Essjay 21:49, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Calling someone the Clyde vandal just sounds way too similar to me :-/ Although, as you point out, he is literally the Cyde vandal. Gahhhr. --Cyde Weys 21:52, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

We could call him Bonnie...In all seriousness, there were some other sock names that weren't too long to use; for that matter, he created S-J (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to attack me, so we can call him the "S-J" vandal, doesn't bother me! Essjay 21:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out how pathetic this vandal was if he tried to make attack names for at least two editors and no one even noticed that that was what they were for until the checkuser was performed. JoshuaZ 22:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

He's been at it for a while now, or at least someone has been using the same "newsletter" format to vandalize pages for a while. FreplySpang (talk) 22:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Reporting abuse to service providers

There's been persistent vandalism from an IP which has continually returned from blocks to vandalise - he has a very distinctive style, so it's definitely one person. {{test6}} for repeat vandals says "action could be taken against the individual who uses it". WHOIS says the address is registered to York County Council and gives an email address to send reports of abuse to. Would it be good practice to send an email to that address asking them to look into it? Is there generally any point sending emails to those addresses? Would I be overstepping myself contacting someone off-site on Misplaced Pages's behalf in such a way? --Sam Blanning 22:17, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I would do it personaly Admrb♉ltz (T | C | k) 22:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe the real part is "on wikipedia's behalf", that is like others you aren't employed by Wikimedia so pretty much anything you do is on your own account not wikipedia's per-se --pgk 22:36, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I made a point of saying that in the email I just sent. --Sam Blanning 22:46, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be some kind of system for this otherwise multiple emails could end up being sent? Arniep 23:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm working on just such a system, and hope to reveal it soon. My experience, however, is that email rarely works; phone calls, however, get very prompt attention. Essjay 23:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

My experience is that ISPs are relatively uninterested in complaints about their customers. Universities, on the other hand, will often hand you the head of the offender. Kelly Martin (talk) 05:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

A large amount of vandalism is from schools/colleges too so we should also be able to get them to take action against persistent offenders. Arniep 12:51, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

At least one repeat vandal is an instructor, not a student, at the college my daughter attends. He vandalizes articles as an object lesson, as part of his speech on "Misplaced Pages is not a RS." I only recently learned about this and have been mulling over how to proceed. Any bright ideas? KillerChihuahua 00:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I have slight sympathies for him. One should never cite Misplaced Pages(for that matter one should never cite any encyclopedia) one should always track down the sources cited by Misplaced Pages and cite those. However, deliberate vandalism to make such a point is not acceptable behavior. I would send a strong note to him that 1) If the prof's students need to be to told that Misplaced Pages is not an academic level RS then they sbhould probably be eliminated from the genepool. 2) Explain to him that many people are putting many hours into Misplaced Pages and his vandalism wastes there time. If he doesn't respond to that, talk to whoever is his superior. JoshuaZ 01:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I think I'll pass on suggestion 1, but I am thinking at least he should revert himself and clean up his own mess, and will probably mention that to him. I'll see what happens then. KillerChihuahua 01:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh my. "His own mess?" Exactly how bad was the vandalism? JoshuaZ 01:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I suspect that it's vandalism of the worst sort: the subtle, hard-to-detect stuff. Blanking an article and replacing it with OMG GEORGE BUSH IS TEH SUXORS!!!!!111!! is easily detected by non-experts and quickly repaired. (In some cases, it's even fixed by a bot.) On the other hand, changing the date of the Battle of Arfderydd from 573 to 575 might pass unnoticed. A reference to a community named Forest Hill might easily be changed to Forest Park.

Encourage your daughter to critically evaluate the level of trust she should place in some dick that lies to strangers and schoolchildren just to make a point. Note also that many educational institutions provide some mechanism for instructor evaluation, and that it's always good to remember these sorts of things when you get to the 'any other comments' section of the form. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:56, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I've contacted a few professors after other Wikipedians have pointed out that the instructor made the "Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source" argument to students who were, in fact, Wikipeidans. I have a copy of my form response at User:Essjay/Letter. When I was head of my department, I certainly would have taken knowledge of such conduct into consideration, and I think similarly minded department heads/deans would as well. The young lady should make an appointment with the department head/dean/provost post haste. Essjay 04:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Arbcom violations by Leyasu and Danteferno

I was alerted to the history at Gothic metal, where one user has violated his revert parole for the 3rd time. The previous blocks were for 48 hours and 4 days, so I blocked for 1 week. The person he reverted also violated his parole as detailed on that page, and I blocked for 48 hours. I'll also note this on the arbcom page. — ₀₉₁₈ • 2006-04-5 22:42

User:DanieI Brandt

That's DanieI with an I (eye). Please block this account as a sockpuppet of User:Daniel Brandt, or an a username that is too close to an existing one. ~MDD4696 03:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Libel

Brand new User:Johnyrocket1111 has today made some potentially libellous edits to Cosima De Vito. I just want to let everyone know that:

1. I intend to delete the edits from the page history, per our libel policy;
2. If the editor cannot be convinced to desist, I will block indefinitely. My justification for this would be that the material added is a potential legal and financial threat to the Wikimedia Foundation.

Snottygobble 04:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Johnnyrocket1111 continued with his libellous revisions, and responded to my compromise rewrite with a legal threat. He has now been indefinitely blocked, and his revisions removed from the page history. Snottygobble 05:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Received an email from Constantine Nellis aka Johnnyrocket1111 containing the following gems:

if this is not corrected or wiped immidiately i will be taking legal action against yourself and any parties associated.

apart from taking legal action i am also seeing my large network of media associated to see how far we can take this

and shortly afterwards another email with:

I have just spoken to my legal representatives and they are making direct contact with wilkemedia regarding your actions. expect to hear from them dirctly.

Ignoring the paper tigers, one of the emails did actually contain some terse facts without all the abusive bulls**t, so I have made some minor corrections to the article.

If this is the way Nellis does business, by bullying and threatening, the content of the article w.r.t him doesn't surprise me one bit. Snottygobble 23:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Blocked IP editing

Quick clarification; how is 165.228.131.11 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) still editing/vandalizing articles after having been blocked for a month? Kuru 04:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The last block was on March 1, it's April 5 (actually 6 according to wiki time I think, but not according to my time). So yeah, it's been more than a month. The Ungovernable Force 04:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Oooookay. I've lost a month somewhere. Let's forget I ever posted that. Kuru 04:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, looking at their history of blocks for vandalism, as well as their current contributions (such as , and ) I think this user should be banned permanently. The Ungovernable Force 04:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I have reblocked for three months. If the vandalism continues after that expires I would recommend a block of a year. Or, what the hell, we could just escalate to permanent block right now. --Cyde Weys 05:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Grammar block

I have blocked Mike Garcia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for repeatedly modifying pages to change the words "is" and "was" to the words "are" and "were" in the case of collective noun forms for bands. He was previously warned to stop doing this but his solo attack on the English language has continued. He even went so far as to say "There's nothing you can do to stop me". He was saying that to another user; unluckily for him, I got dragged into this silly mess, and there is something I can do to stop him. --Cyde Weys 04:58, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Of course, that's perfectly standard English; it's merely "incorrect" for American English. But never mind. :-)

James F. (talk) 08:30, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

This rings a bell. I reverted Cyde on The Yardbirds a while back, as for a British band "The Yardbirds were a band" was correct. I suppose the reasonable thing to do would be to use the prevalent form of whichever country the band is from. This isn't always clear though, CSN&Y anyone? Leithp 08:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

In that instance use grammar per the first substantial contributer to the article, as you would for spelling. If the article uses British spelling, use British grammar, likewise American or Canadian. Having just had a discussion over capitalising after a colon, which is American grammar but not British, I'll have to recheck that the MOS does make note of grammar as well as spelling in topics which are country specific. Steve block talk 09:09, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Where can I read more about these differences in grammar between British and American? Is there a Wiki article that covers this? --Candide, or Optimism 10:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The capital after a colon is actually more complicated than that in American grammar. First, many Americans(even educated ones) simply don't do it at all. Second, some only capitalize when the section after the colon can stand as a sentence on its own. So "blah, blah blah: list" would not have the first item in the list capitalized. I think American MOSes differ on what is preferable in such cases, but I haven't looked at the matter in much detail in a while. JoshuaZ 14:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a content dispute - it was irresponsible to block Mike Garcia. Furthermore, in most cases Mike is correct. I have discussed this at length and researched this thoroughly, and I am confident that it is grammatically correct to use were/are in instances where the band's name is a plural noun which represents the members. For instance, "The White Stripes are..." is the correct way to start the article. User:RJN continues to edit articles of bands and sports teams to insert this awkward grammar.

For those who support this awkward grammar, I have a question: Do you really believe it is correct to write "The Beatles was on the Ed Sullivan show"? Rhobite 14:30, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

See also , which explains the use of plural band/team names. Rhobite 14:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Grammar issues aside, I don't see that this was a useful thing to block over. It's a content dispute. Friday (talk) 14:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Cyde also blocked User:158.223.1.117 on March 24 in order to gain an advantage in a revert war on The Decemberists. Although it was labeled a 3RR block, this seems to be a pattern of overstepping the bounds of the blocking policy. Rhobite 14:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Rhobite, it appears that Cyde is using admin tools to gain an advantage in disputes where he is a party. Admin tools are not supposed to be used in a dispute by one who is involved in that dispute. --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Ugh, I'm trying not to be involved in this thing. I didn't even touch any of these latest edits. I was just warned that this user was again disrupting many articles by enforcing his particular views on grammar on them. Also, there was a long email conversation with this user awhile ago which basically ended with him saying, "I don't care what you say, I'm going to keep reverting." That's not an acceptable way of solving things. The closest analog would be if someone were going through articles changing American spellings to British spellings, repeatedly, and continued even after being warned. --Cyde Weys 16:21, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

If they're doing something blockable, but you're involved in the dispute, the wisest course of action is to make a request here (or on WP:AN) asking another admin to perform the block. I think one of the few "reverts" being involved in that doesn't count as a conflict of interest for blocking purposes is clear vandalism, and Mike definitely didn't do that (I haven't looked at 158.233.1.117, so can't comment on that). --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:56, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Alright, in the future, I'll leave it up to other admins. Anyway, I asked this guy to file an RFC regarding collective noun grammar and he patently refused; basically, he was sure he was right, and he was going to continue editing things to his way. I strongly warned against this course of action. And then yesterday, he continued with the reversions, maybe thinking I had somehow forgotten or lost track. Nope. --Cyde Weys 17:05, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not saying that Mike Garcia's editing style is ideal - when there is a disagreement over his edits, he immediately assumes bad faith, accuses the other party of vandalism, and threatens to revert endlessly, no matter how small the dispute is. However, that doesn't give admins a license to block him, especially if they're on the other side of the content dispute. I think an RFC would be a good idea - not about Mike's conduct (or yours, mine, or RJN's), but about the grammar issue. I am almost positive that I am correct. Every media outlet I have checked agrees with using are/were/they/their when describing plural bands such as The White Stripes. The New York Times seems particularly authoritative: "In 2003, the White Stripes left behind the Strokes and just about everyone else when they released 'Elephant'" (The White Stripes Change Their Spots, The New York Times, May 29, 2005 Sunday, Late Edition - Final, Section 2; Column 4; Arts and Leisure Desk; MUSIC; Pg. 1, 1548 words, By KELEFA SANNEH) Rolling Stone says "The White Stripes are at a commercial and creative peak." It is very hard to argue that these publications are grammatically incompetent. I am going to have very little time this weekend, so if there is an RFC I would really appreciate it if someone pasted this comment into it, or mentioned the RS/NYT cites. Thanks. Rhobite 18:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, assuming bad faith, accusing people of vandalism, and threatening to revert endlessly are good cause for a block. But I digress. The last time this came up with this user I told him to file exactly the kind of RfC you and I are talking about. He refused and threatened to revert endlessly. Gahhhrr. And as for your examples ... the first one is using the singular they, which is an altogether different grammatical issue, and the second is from Rolling Stone, hardly a paragon of grammatical virtue. I think the end result is that either way is acceptable (much like British/American spelling of words), and general consensus on how to deal with that is to leave stuff alone and don't go through articles changing everything to "your" way. That's exactly what Mike Garcia was doing. --Cyde Weys 20:12, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Come on, I think you understand that I can find many more examples from reputable sources. Are you really going to attack each source I come up with? The NY Times is not using the singular "they", which is only used to refer to a person of unknown gender. It's obviously the plural "they" - otherwise the author would have written "when it released 'Elephant'", and "The White Stripes Changes Its Spots". Notice the plural verb "change their" as opposed to the singular "changes its" in the headline. Rolling Stone is a professionally-edited magazine and it's a little arrogant to say that you know better than them. Can you cite any American magazines or newspapers which support your usage? I don't see you providing any examples. As for your point about leaving articles in their original state, RJN was the one who went on an edit spree in the first place, in January, changing a great number of articles from "are" to "is". Rhobite 20:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Bots hidding vandalism

I don't know if it happens to others as well, but the recent heavy activity by robots that format articles has given me a lot of extra-work spotting vandalism in the articles I watch by getting extensive watchlists of modified articles that have only been slightly touched by a Bot.

To illustrate the problem, let me show you this edit that added some nonsense, but at the same time removed the chinnese interwiki link (zh:). Hours later to this vandal edit YurikBot restored the interwiki link, leaving the vandalism untouched. The following day I check for the last changes, and saw tha the page has been edited by YurikBot, thus thought that there's no need to check its edits, but luckily checked it anyway.

Since bots produce a huge number of changes in articles that might have not been otherwise modified in months (and therefore there's no need to check them for vandalism), it might be reasonable to give Bots a special status that would later allow us to ignore their edits when requesting your our watchlist. This way watchlists would be much more compact, and we would have less work doing our everyday check.

Another idea would be the display in the watchlists the number of edits to that page since your last log-on, or something like that. Any ideas? Good wiking, Mariano(t/c) 05:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

That's why I clicked "hist" rather than "diff" on the watchlist, before I wrote a program to keep track of my watchlist. --Carnildo 07:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Request user block

24.171.16.151 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has been disruptive and uncivil on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jonathan Williams (pastor) (2nd nomination). A couple hours ago Mackensen moved all the anon and new user votes into a "Corral" (see discussion above), 24.171.16.151 immediately moved all the "votes" around again, and has also made a personal attack against 66.110.197.20 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), whom he believes is the subject of the article, and with whom he has been engaged in an edit war at Aryan Nations. It's not exactly the definition of vandalism, but I suggest a short block to cool down and to allow Mackensen (who's probably asleep now like I should be) or someone else to clean up the discussion again. Or I could be totally of the mark as well. Thatcher131 05:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Never mind. His conduct on the pages he frequents might or might not deserve blocking; the AfD will be gone in 5 days either way, so whatever he does there is mostly pointless. Thatcher131 06:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Extreme Personal Attacks and Defamation

• User:Eyeonvaughan, who also happens to be undergoing a User Conduct RfC at the moment crossed the line with this edit in which he accuses me and my father are corrupt, accuses me of slander without giving any evidence/examples, accuses me of bribery and illegitimately winning an election and reveals information about my personal life that I quite honestly have no idea how he knows, to the point that I'm afraid he's stalking me or something. Don't really know what else I can do... help please. pm_shef 06:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

This sort of conduct is unacceptable, whatever other issues there may be. Personal attacks are one thing, bringing someone's personal life is another. With great restraint, I've blocked Eyeonvaughan for 24 hours, as he's been warned before about personal attacks but this seems to be the first time he's been blocked for them.

I would remove that note from my talk page, personally, or at least the personal information. You can replace it with the {{RPA}} template. --Sam Blanning 10:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism on Gold Coast, Queensland page

Hi there, someone from 203.144.15.190 keeps anonymously removing content from the Gold Coast, Queensland article, against the consenus on that page's talk section. Please block them. Cheers, Triki-wiki 06:36, 6 April 2006 (UTC)Triki-Wiki

Islamism

There is a lot action happening in this article (currently locked) and in the talk page (see this) today. Can someone keep an eye on this. Tintin (talk) 08:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Loom91 user talk page spamming

I have blocked User:Loom91 for 24 hours for disruption: user talk page spam. The edits (over 100) can be seen in Loom91's contribs.--Commander Keane 12:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Good block. I got one of those myself. —BorgHunter (talk) 12:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

You should not block someone right away, you should warn him first. Maybe he was not aware of the rule. ROGNNTUDJUU! 12:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I can't believe you. --Cyde Weys 16:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree; there was a sort of warning, but it gave no indication of a Misplaced Pages policy — it more or less said "stop doing this or I'll block you, because I think that it's disruptive" (is there a template for this warning, incidentally? With the rapidly accelerating template-creep I'm surprised that there isn't). Also, did you check to see how many of the recipients had voted in an earlier poll, and so deserved to be informed of a new poll on a revised propsal (I was one of those)?

Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy#Disruption makes no mention of sending messages about a poll to interested parties, notr am I clear why receiving such a message is disruptive. Unless anyone objects, I'll lift the block. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:57, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

This was grossly disruptive behavior. In a current arbcom case, another editor has been found to be disruptive for trying to stack a poll in this manner. I strongly oppose lifting the block. --Tony Sidaway 15:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I object also: is this sufficient to keep the block in place? —Phil | Talk 16:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

There *was* a warning given , block seems justified. .:.Jareth.:. 16:56, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe this user messaged me because I'm a member of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Wikipedians_against_censorship, I think his edit to my page was completely justified. Please consider lifting the block - Serodio 15:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Talk page spamming is just a bad idea. The one time I think it's found acceptable is when a user is thanking people for voting on their RfA. At all other times it is highly frowned upon. Even during ArbCom elections people's talk pages weren't spammed; rather, a notice was placed in a highly visible place. If the anti-censorship WikiProject is having some kind of vote then placing a prominent note on their project page should be enough to get the attention of the users seriously involved. If there are users out there who aren't checking up on their WikiProjects even once a week, they simply aren't very involved with them, and it's probably okay if they miss a chance to vote on something. That's better than spamming up hundreds of talk pages, anyway. --Cyde Weys 16:55, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I hate getting spam thanking me for voting in an RfA. Last time I got one I just reverted it as soon as I saw "Hello, {{PAGENAME}}". Angr (talk • contribs) 19:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Lolicon and external links

Over at Lolicon there's dispute about the best way forward regarding external links to sites containing images which are of questionable legality. Jimbo suggested a way forward on the mailing list, as seen here ,which was to follow the precedent used at Last measure, and remove the hyperlink facility of the text, leaving only text which could be cut and pasted into a browser, and thus remove the accidental clicking of the link.

I put this into action, in this diff, however, I've already been reverted once, this diff. Obviously I'm in a content dispute so it would be a help top get some consensus on this matter and determine if re-instating the hyperlink is vandalism. It's entirely possible to click the wrong link on a page, I've done it many times myself. This suggestion by Jimbo removes the possibility entirely. Steve block talk 13:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism on Misplaced Pages:Introduction

Because User:Sandbot is not working correctly on the Introduction, vandalism has been staying longer. The latest time was a vandal edit at 11:21, 6 April 2006 that did not get reverted until 12:32, 6 April 2006. Since this is a high traffic page linked to in the header of the main page - some help to monitor it would be appreciated. I am also going to contact User:Tawker and User:Joshbuddy about having User:Tawkerbot2 help out on this page. Thx in adv Trödel 13:30, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Public thanks to Joshbuddy, and all blame to Tawker ;) for making the change. The speed of Tawkerbot's corrections is just incredible. When I tested it, by the time the page reloaded and I clicked history - the vandalism had been removed. My test 11:02, 7 April 2006, the correction 11:02, 7 April 2006. This will definately improve the likelihood that newcomers will see a useful page when they click anyone can edit on the main page. Thanks so much to both of these users and good luck to Tawker on his RfA Trödel 11:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:ROGNNTUDJUU! indefinitely banned

I have set an indefinite block on ROGNNTUDJUU! (talk · contribs) due to this user's persistently disruptive attitude, obsessive focus on the creation, recreation and defence of inflammatory/divisive (T1-criterion) userboxes, or copies in userspace. Has been combative and unwilling to cooperate in general; if you look at this user's contributions, the sole areas of interaction have more or less only been userbox DRVs, talk pages of his opponents to post rather caustic messages, and the creation of inflammatory userbox or userbox-like devices in both main template space and userspace. This user appears - despite having been informed by myself and others, and indeed this user seems to blank messages from his talk page he doesn't like - to feel that Misplaced Pages is solely a device for political campaigning, and that he has a "right" to do so on Misplaced Pages. Frankly I really don't see why we should waste further time on a user who is clearly of net negative value to the project; thus I feel a "community ban" is best in this scenario. --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 13:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

He has about 900 edits, about 150 of which were productive mainspace edits, everything else seems to be political campaigning. Not an impressive ratio. JoshuaZ 14:09, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I concur with the above assessments. --Tony Sidaway 14:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. Misplaced Pages's newest recruits are, unfortunutely misled in the goals of this fair site. No one owns any part of wikipedia, especially in the point of selfish views and usage. Take that nonsense to MySpace. -Zero 14:18, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Yep, yep, yep. His ridiculous whining and wikilawyering above has convinced me that this is necessary. Werdna648/_C\ 14:22, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, he was surprisingly civil to me when he pointed out that I had made an error. He also might be able to "see the light," so to speak. Perhaps an indef is too harsh? He might be able to grasp what Misplaced Pages is for, he just needs some time and patience. As the blocker, Nicholas, it's up to you if you want to grant him that. Is he reformable? —BorgHunter (talk) 14:48, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

That is a good question, BorgHunter. Initially, I'd have agreed with you, since interactions with other members had been reasonably civil. However, his handling of my attempts to discuss the matter with him were not, and indeed he blanked my messages that I left him on his talk page (replying, admittedly, on my talk page; but it is nonetheless not the sign of one who is willing to improve). It was more my exasperation at trying to tell him his use of Misplaced Pages as a political soapbox was incorrect, and his impolite and uncooperative stance towards attempts to get him to behave, which lead me to ultimately decide there was no other choice than an outright ban. So no, at this time, I would say that the suitable avenues for reform have been well and truly exhausted. --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 21:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid, while strongly opposing ROGNNTUDJUU's recent behaviour, I also oppose a cabbalist community ban on him. 150 productive mainspace edits is still 150 productive mainspace edits, and he hasn't necessarily stopped making them to wage a war for userbox campaigning. I think standard temporary blocks for personal attacks and disruption, if necessary, and seeking a ban from userbox-related editing from the ArbCom if that doesn't stop him would be preferable. If we can't find grounds for temporary blocks I can't see why a permanent one is justified. But I don't feel particularly strongly about it, and we do need a clear message that political campaigning is not acceptable. I'm just not sure it should be a swinging corpse. --Sam Blanning 14:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but note that for each of his edits outside the 150 it generates at least 2 other edits on average. from other users trying to deal with him. JoshuaZ 15:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

How about a community ban from creating, editing or deploying userboxes and making inflammatory political statements? This would enable him to function as an editor while making his problematic behavior blockable. --Tony Sidaway 14:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I would support that. JoshuaZ 15:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

::hops on board:: —BorgHunter (talk) 15:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Strong support. I believe he can be made a productive Wikipedian. Misza13 15:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good, I support. Keep him away from userboxes, TfD, and DRV, and hopefully he can work on articles and not spend his time inflaming the userbox situation. --Cyde Weys 20:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

It is unclear to me why ROGNNTUDJUU has been banned. The cited behaviour, persistently disruptive attitude, obsessive focus on the creation, recreation and defence of inflammatory/divisive (T1-criterion) userboxes, or copies in userspace, does not seem in-and-of-itself a bannable offense. Could you clarify with some representative edits? If an obsessive focus on userboxes is somehow an offense, who here should 'scape wipping? StrangerInParadise 15:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Well, I would-I don't have any userboxes on my userpage- and Cyde would become some sort of saint. The real issue here isnt the creation of the userboxes but their persistent recreation and his whining about censorship and refusal to stop wikilawyering. All in all, I think Tony's suggestion is a good one, although I would suggest making that ban maybe not permanent but maybe given a trial a probation 1 month? JoshuaZ 15:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't you think that characterizing his expressions of concern as whining and wikilawyering is somewhat uncivil? StrangerInParadise 15:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

"whining" is uncivil and was probably uneccessary, "wikilawyering" is accurate and I stand by it. JoshuaZ 15:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

A ban for not editing enough in the main space is totally out of place. You may also note that the great majority of the template he ROGNNTUDJUU! created are just nice like "user plays in a band/the bongos/badminton/checkers/reversi/darts" or "enjoys hanggliding/ice skating/inline skating", and many others use them . He has not done anything wrong, he has all the right to express his opinion, and I am quite concerned of the persistent bullying of this user that I already noticed quite a while ago when a template he had created was voted to get deleted by some users in retaliation for him taking the time to ask every single one of them to withdraw a crossed out flag he found respectless. I would also like to point out that NicholasTurnbull who banned ROGNNTUDJUU! had yesterday deleted and blocked a subpage of ROGNNTUDJUU! and after he had been warned and apoligized for this he now seems to use the user block to go on with his bullying. This is unacceptable. De mortuis... 15:21, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I have to concur. This seems to be using procedure to silence a vocal member of the "keep" faction of the userbox debates, not because he's violating policies but because his opinions are not shared by older members. I've yet to see specific policies that this user has violated, and nothing that it's even been implied ROGNNTUDJUU! has done warrants an indefinite block. If he 3RRs, or if he is brash and incivil, put temporary blocks on. But this was overkill. I've unblocked this user. JDoorjam Talk 16:00, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I concur with BorgHunter's comments, as well as with those of Samuel_Blanning, StrangerInParadise, and De mortuis.... The idea of a ban on userboxes, etc., is better than nothing, but the ban was illicit in the first place (note the wording of the template: "This user has been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages, per ruling of administrators, Jimbo Wales, and/or the Arbitration Committee." The nearest to one of thoose is the decision of one admin, which I don't think counts as a "ruling of administrators". Disruption warrants a block of twenty-four hours, increased if the behaviour continues, not a permanent block. If no-one else wants to, I'm happy to lift it. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 15:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't support the idea of a "community ban" from playing with userboxes either. This noticeboard is not ArbCom. We have neither the transparency nor the organisation to be throwing creative sentences around. --Sam Blanning 16:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

If you object to the ban because you think it's the wrong solution, that's one thing and I'm fine with it. But don't object to it on some sort of procedural grounds intended to preserve the authority of the Arbitration Committee. The Arbitration Committee is not specially empowered as the only entity allowed to come up with solutions. If the community comes up with a solution and wants to implement it, they don't need the ArbCom to endorse it. The only time that the ArbCom is specially required is when someone needs to be desysoped or debureaucrated, and that's only because of procedural requirements imposed by the stewards on Meta.

The purpose of the ArbCom is to make decisions for the community when the community is unwilling to make them itself. If the community is able to make up its mind without the ArbCom's involvement, great. Kelly Martin (talk) 16:21, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm willing to support an indefinite ban, although I would compromise on a shorter ban duration and an injunction against getting involved with userboxes and other wikilawyering. Misplaced Pages is about writing an encyclopedia and some people are gaming us with their MySpacing non-encyclopedic userbox templates. The templates ROGNNTUDJUU! was arguing about were clear violations of Jimbo's T1 policy and did not help the encyclopedia at all; they were simply foolish, stupid, and divisive. We don't need scores of people hanging around questioning the motives of those of us who actually care about writing the damn encyclopedia. And I find it ironic that StrangerInParadise dares show his face in here, because he's on ice just about as thin as ROGNNTUDJUU!'s. And to those of you attacking this block saying that no specific policies were violated ... that's because of the wikilawyering and the gaming of the system. Although I would say that WP:ENC, which is the spirit of the project, was violated. --Cyde Weys 16:08, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I do not think the community at large has the authority to impose a non-total ban on a user against their will. This is not the Arbitration Committee, and it is for that purpose that we have such a committee. Also, this section looks quite distinctly like a straw poll. That's not how community bans work. They only work when there is 100% unanimity among admins. If any admin is willing to unblock, then there can be no community ban and the matter must go to ArbCom. I for one do not support an indef ban on the back of ROG...'s editing, although he is being tiresome for sure. I certainly do not feel able to support any more creative bans, as I do not consider that admins have the authority so to impose upon an editor. -Splash 16:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I think administrators have, and have always had, the power to indefinitely block accounts whose only purpose is to disrupt the encyclopeda, or which do not contribute to the encyclopedia in any way (there's ample precedent in the case of several users being banned for using Misplaced Pages as a personal file server). ROGNNTUDJUU! could end all of this right now by leaving the templates be and wandering back into the article space. That he persists in disruptive behavior is troubling. What is his purpose here? Mackensen (talk) 16:18, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

(After two edit conflicts)

The rules state clearly that idefinite blocks shouldn't be applied unless the named account has been used only for disruptive and vandalistic edits (see Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy#Expiry times and application, which this hasn't (as is indicated above). The ban is out of process.

(Incdentally, "ridiculous whining" isn't foul language, unless it has some meaning in a variety of slang that I haven't come across...) --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Mackensen, that's not at all what I said. I agree that admins can simply remove nothing-but-trouble users as long as all other admins agree. What I said was, that I don't think we can go imposing 'creative' remedies such as those suggested e.g. limited only to userboxes. If people want to play at arbitration, there is a club they can join. -Splash 16:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

See my comments above about the Arbitration Committee. I fully disagree with the claim that the community lacks such authority, and I urge people to disregard objections to such solutions that are grounded solely in procedural arguments such as the above. Argue against the substance of the proposed remedy, not against the authority of the community to impose it. There is no division of authority on Misplaced Pages: al administrators act on behalf of the community and have the authority to use their powers however is required to serve the needs of the community. The Arbitration Committee's purpose is merely to break deadlocks when it is necessary to do so. Remember, the ArbCom is not your mother. Kelly Martin (talk) 16:21, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea why he is here, but shortly after JDoorjam lifted his block he turned up in ANI (see above) and argued against the blocking of a user who spammed over one hundred talk pages, saying that he should've been "warned" first. WTF?!?! It seems like he's just here to argue and rebel against "authority" on Misplaced Pages. --Cyde Weys 16:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually his comment in the other case was made prior to his own block. I don't think he has yet resumed editing since being unblocked. --Tony Sidaway 17:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Last I checked he has not. --Syrthiss 17:14, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

And many agreed with him, including me. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:31, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

That you yourself agree with his argument does not make his actions any less disruptive. --Tony Sidaway 16:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

My objection is not merely procedural. I do not think that a group of admins can impose arbitrary restrictions on an editor. If I must argue against only the substance, rather than the foundation, of the ban, then I would argue that all of the substance is wrong, because of the inherent problems. The community is not arbcom's mother, either, and there are some things that are only usefully settled by the committee -Splash 16:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

It is attitudes like this that (a) let problems fester in the community, sometimes endlessly (because there is "no procedure for dealing with that sort of problem") and (b) overload the Committee by forcing it to deal with problems for which there is an obvious solution but which a handful of dogmatic holdouts in the community prevent from being implemented. Splash, and others who think like him, I ask you to consider whether your doctrinaire attitude against community action to resolve problems like these is in the best interest of Misplaced Pages. You've said that "there are inherent problems" but not identified them. You're not making a substantive argument, beyond "I don't like it, and therefore I will oppose it." If that is the meat of your objection, the community would be well-advised to simply ignore you. Kelly Martin (talk) 18:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I've been involved in successful community bans on editors in the past and no doubt I shall in the future. You describe the restrictions in this case as "arbitrary" but far from it, they're specially targetted to stop his disruptive activities without interfering with his ability to perform useful edits. --Tony Sidaway 16:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

What is the argument being made here, that if a user has even a single valid edit to the encyclopedia that they cannot be banned indefinitely? That's ridiculous. --Cyde Weys 16:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

That an arbitrary restriction of the nature of "a community ban from creating, editing or deploying userboxes and making inflammatory political statements" is not appropriate for the community to impose. In any case, any kind of a "community" ban needs unanimity, and that simply isn't present. -Splash 16:48, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Normally I can at least see the point of the other side, but in this case, I'm disturbingly in full agreement with the people commonly regarded as hardline boxen deletionists. I see no reason to unblock this user unless he agrees to stop disrupting Misplaced Pages. Let us remember that if your bad contributions outweigh your good contributions, you shouldn't expect much quarter unless you make a good faith effort to improve. I stay away from meta issues these days, but even I've run across this user now and then, and every time I've seen him, he's been stirring up a ruckus. Unless he agrees to stop (or at least try to reduce such incidents) disrupting our operations which (lest we forget) aim to build an encyclopaedia, he shouldn't be permitted anywhere near boxen-space. The community has every right to impose a ban on someone it finds intolerable. The only question now is whether enough people support the ban for it to be tenable. (Community rulings are getting rarer and rarer these days -- an unavoidable effect of having a larger community, which in turn raises the threshold for consensus.) While I personally support the ban and would like to see more "community rulings" in the future, I have a feeling this will end up in front of the arbcom pretty soon. Johnleemk | Talk 16:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Why was ROGNNTUDJUU banned now that he wrote on WP:AN/I, and not before if he really was so disruptive? Lapinmies 17:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Good point. We should've banned him earlier. --Cyde Weys 17:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

This doesn't need to be done as a ban, entertaining as playing at being an Arbitrator must be. All that is necessary is for ROG... to be made to understand that people are low on patience with him, and view his edits, particularly to userboxes as at best borderline disruptive. If people (admins, that is) decide that he is being disruptive, then they have all the latitude they need to block for e.g. 24hrs, and escalating as appropriate. Clearly, such blocks remain open to review as usual. There is no need to construct this as a ban. It can be done entirely decentralized. Again, if people wish to play at arbitration they should stand in the next elections. I should make clear that I fully agree that he is being a pain and that he needs to stop and that he has not been being constructive. I just don't think that a "hands up, who wants to ban him" approach is right. -Splash 17:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and have expressed the sentiments of Splash's first sentence to ROG. Escalating bans are far more warranted, as is communication with the user about Wiki values and a warning that a block is imminent. If the user still doesn't get it after having this explained (which it now has been), then blocking becomes more appropriate. And perhaps Cyde is right: if ROG's 750 non-mainspace edits have been largely disruptive, why hasn't he been talked to and progressively blocked before? This user could have used lessons in Wiki values and Wikiquette a long time ago. Hopefully ROG can still be made into a productive editor. If he can't, well, that's too bad and he'll end up banned. But let's at least give it a bit of a shot. JDoorjam Talk 17:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Strange that you say "why hasn't he been talked to and progressively blocked before?" Well he hasn't been blocked before, but looking at his talk page I see plenty of evidence that other editors have complained to him about his disruptive behavior with respect to userboxes. If he wasn't blocked before, perhaps he should have been, but that's no reason not to deal with the problem now. He must be aware by now that his trollish actions are not welcome here. --Tony Sidaway 19:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Still waiting for someone to post an example of edits so disruptive they merit a blockage of any sort. StrangerInParadise 00:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

In the meantime, I'm waiting for you to look further down the page. Your answer lies there. Granted, you've never understood why sockpuppetry is frowned upon. Mackensen (talk) 01:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

everybody need a second chance

Maybe he need a second chance. What do you think? However I support a second chance if possible. StabiloBoss 19:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Personal and private information added to pimp by Csbanks (talk · contribs) and Lildev92 (talk · contribs)

Today I reverted some very interesting vandalism committed by two young users having some fun on the pimp article. Normally, such innane nonsense would be no problem, but it contained personal phone numbers, real names, and an IP address that let me know exactly from where they were editing (a high school in Oregon. I deleted the article and restored in sans bad stuff (admin may want to take a look at the last ten or so entries), and blocked the two accounts for vandalism and adding personal information. All standard stuff.

It gets interesting here: always looking for a way to impress upon youths the need for privacy on the Internet, I looked up the number for the originating high school, spoke with the asst. principal, informed him that he had some students who needed to be educated as to the recklessness of their actions, and gave him all of the information (names, phone numbers, deduced ages). He was very grateful. :) – ClockworkSoul 16:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the story, ClockworkSoul :-) --HappyCamper 17:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I've always wanted to do that, too. They made it so easy. :) – ClockworkSoul 17:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I've restored all remaining 300~ versions bar the Lildev and Csbanks. (This isn't my first meeting with 13yo pimps on 'pedia before, either) Sceptre 17:39, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I had already restored all of the non-anon ones. I had already restored all of the non-anon ones, but it's definitely better to have the history. Also, note thae one of the most recent anons was the same kids, and it also inserted a phone number. That reminds me, we need a way to delete individual edits without having to delete the page and restore all X "good" edits. – ClockworkSoul 17:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Deleted. In the mean time, you should get the check all bookmarklet. Godsend :D Sceptre 17:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I should: that's a good start. The problem with that is by "checking all" and unchecking the ones you know are bad, one may inadvertently restore previously-deleted edits. Oh, well: to be brought up in another time and place. :) – ClockworkSoul 17:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

See also the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Deleting attacks in edit summaries. A technique is described which will remove the offending edit from the edit history entirely. -Will Beback 18:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

FYI: Some American school administrators are highly fearful of "the Internets" and are likely to use a complaint as an excuse to work out their phobias upon some hapless student. In the land of "zero tolerance" (== "nonzero cruelty") policies, it might not be such a great idea to turn over personal information to school officials. --FOo 05:17, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Miskin

] ] Uncivil intervention on constructive editing in İzmir page by a Greek user and myself. In his wrath on all things Turkic, he also erased contributions made by yet another Greek user (see: last edit for the page). The man is a disaster zone. Marked down for 3RR last week. --Cretanforever 16:58, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Giati epitithesai amesws? perimene na deis pws tha xeiristo to thema. Kai min les 'a compromise between two users...blablabla hiding the truth'...den sumvivastika se tipota akoma! xereis polu kala ta edits pou exw kanei se diafora arthra, kai to mono pou den na me katigoriseis einai oti kruvw tin alitheia! Se ligo na deis to grammatokivwtio sou. kati tha exeis mesa --Hectorian 16:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Re sy den apeuthinomoun se sena otan elega auta, s'emena kai se auton apeuthinomoun (peri symbibasmous klp). Ok, opos nomizeis, se afino na to analabeis, ego tha kano ta reverts. Me exei thimosei omos epeidi blepeis poso diprosopos einai. Na anaferoume tis sfages tous apla prospathoume, oxi n'allaksoume to thema tou arthrou. Miskin 19:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Dwse mou eikositesseris wres, kai an den kataferw kati, analamvaneis esy. ok? --Hectorian 20:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Prasi90

Consolidating this on WP:AN as suggested. --Tony Sidaway 20:18, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism by User:Kenwood 3000

Kenwood_3000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has engaged in a persistent pattern of vandalism against the Brand X article and albums released by Brand X. He has consistently attempted to insert nonsensical and untruthful information about the members of Brand X, including creating hoax articles at Ian Hart-Stein and Adeji Abeyowa. The sole reference I've been able to find about "Ian Hart-Stein" comes from a page at rockcrypt.com, which is a user-editable band site. User:Samuel Blanning banned him for 24 hours on April 4, but now that the ban is up, Kenwood 3000 is back at it. --Elkman - 20:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I have indefinitely blocked him as a vandalism-only account. --Sam Blanning 20:51, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

User:ROGNNTUDJUU! is a sock of User:De mortuis...

De_mortuis... (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is the same user as ROGNNTUDJUU! (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), per checkuser tracking by me and Kelly Martin (to doublecheck). He's been attempting to show fake consensus and being thoroughly disruptive. I've blocked the sock indefinitely and De mortuis... 48 hours - David Gerard 21:22, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Which is the sock and which is the master is never very clear, but yes, these two are one hand in two different gloves. And they talk to one another like they're not. Kelly Martin (talk) 21:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

For the origins of the names, see Gaston Lagaffe#The office co-workers and De mortuis nil nisi bonum - David Gerard 21:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

More evidence of disruption. · Katefan0/poll 21:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd call ROGNNTUDJUU! the master and De mortuis... the sock by virtue of the fact that ROGNNTUDJUU! is four days older. Angr (talk • contribs) 21:49, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I suppose both could be blocked indefinitely ;-p But at this stage, 48 hours is enough to give him thinking time IMO - David Gerard 22:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I still strongly suspect that both are socks of an as-yet-unrevealed sockmaster. There's lots of rocks I haven't yet turned over. Kelly Martin (talk) 22:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Given this, presumably all issues of whether to give ROGNNTUDJUU! an indefinite ban now shift over to De Mortuis, with the added hit of having a highly unpleasant sock. JoshuaZ 21:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Assume Good Faith until it's ridiculous to. If another new user suddenly shows up advocating the same stuff and the same userboxes, suspicion will be raised, and De Mortuis' slack has quite definitely run out - David Gerard 22:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Geez, it seems like everyone on the "keep" side of the userbox debates is a sockpuppet. I can't say I'm surprised. I'm just wondering who StrangerInParadise is a sock of. He's already admitted to it, he just won't say whose. With this in mind I think we really need to pay close attention to the likes of DRVs, TFDs, and policy polls. There are a lot of people out there trying to game the system and destroy Misplaced Pages by moving it away from encyclopedia and towards MySpace. By the way, I would support an indefinite ban on both of these users. Running two users concurrently to give the appearance of there being multiple people when there's really just one is way beyond the bounds of what's acceptable. --Cyde Weys 22:39, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Gosh, I must be a sockpuppet then. I never noticed before. Angr (talk • contribs) 22:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

You're an admin. I obviously wasn't implicating admins in that statement. --Cyde Weys 23:18, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Everyside of the UB debate had some puppetry involved, or shady deals, so one side is solely not to blame for everything. However, regardless of the eventual outcome, the debate has brought out some of the best and some of the worst of what Misplaced Pages has seen in the past few months. User:Zscout370 23:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can tell it's calming down now, and people are getting thwapped for being stupid and/or obnoxious rather than because it involves a userbox. Which is probably better, really - David Gerard 08:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

What? Admins aren't above suspicion just because a local majority decided to give them some extra buttons. I know I'm not. --Sam Blanning 09:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Robert Lindsay

Someone please take a glance at User:Robert Lindsay's user page; my inclination is just to ban him and blank it for general obnoxiousness, but perhaps I'm oversensitive. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆

• The founder of Ziopedia is a sleazy porn merchant named Jimbo Wales. Jimbo has deep links with powerful US militant Jewish interests. He is also a passionate Zionist. The vast majority of Wiki admins, arbitrators and top staff are also Zionists and Judeophilic. Charming. I've no objection really. I suppose folks prefer that this sort get a warning these days, but I doubt it would do any good. Mackensen (talk) 23:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

If you look at his edits they all consist of a bunch of POV edits to articles related to Israel. Combine that with his userpage and it's quite obvious why he's here. I think a ban would be in order. --Cyde Weys 23:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

He's now been blocked indefinitely (just thought it should be logged here). --Cyde Weys 23:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

• yeah, the more I looked, the less I saw to stop me. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:43, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Pegasus1138 ---- 01:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

please help: user out of control

Dear admins, if one of you could please check out User:Billcica and what he has done in the past 24 hours, including vandalizing pages with POV, vandalizing user pages, and modifying other users' comments on his talk page, I would really appreciate it. Another user has contacted User:NicholasTurnbull regarding this matter; please see his talk page for more information regarding the incidents. Thank you for your attention and (hopefully) quick blockage of this user. --Romarin 00:25, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

He does seem to be editing women's rights articles with a decidedly anti-woman POV ... Cyde Weys 00:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but I wouldn't call any of it "vandalism". This is a new user who doesn't understand our core policies here, but who's made some constructive edits, and probably has potential. -GTBacchus 00:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your prompt response. However, I would urge you to look at what this user has done to his talk page, and to look more in-depth into what he has done to the talk page of User:IronChris. If these don't constitute as vandalism, I don't know what does. Also, if you will look in his talk page history (it is no longer on his talk page since he deleted all complaints that were posted against him) you will see that I responded to his original posts in a friendly manner, especially since I saw that it was his first day on Misplaced Pages. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and he came back with blatant personal attacks and user page vandalism. Please give this another consideration. Thank you. --Romarin 00:58, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I see no constructive edits among the sexist, POV edits. I also speedied an article he created, Weekly Musician which was just an ad to a website. He is also very insulting, calling me and Romarin hypocrites, biased and narrow-minded. He deleted all the messages that were posted to him giving him advice on how to make wiser contributions (see the history of his talk page), I'm pretty sure he didn't even read them as the deletion occurred just seconds after I posted my last message. I wrote to Nicholas Turnbull to ask for advice, you may see a longer description of the problem on his talk page. The latest contribution of User:Billcica was to belittle and make fun of Romarin on his talk page by making a collage of several of her sentences, which are quite insulting when removed from context. He also deleted parts of the messages on my talk page. These personal attacks cannot be tolerated as per WP:NPA. Regards, --IronChris 01:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

A big Thank You to admin Nicholas Turnbull for taking the innitiative and blocking this user. Thank you for taking the time to look things over carefully enough to see the extent of this user's vandalism and personal attacks. Much appreciation. --Romarin 01:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Amorrow sock puppet?

Iheartdrann (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) suspicious edits. , , and FloNight 00:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Can this article be speedy delete instead of Afd. Started by Iheartdrann Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Holly Tannen --FloNight 00:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Done, but too tired to work out how to close this properly. Can some friendly admin do it for me please? And thanks, FloNight. AnnH ♫ 01:12, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Closed. -GTBacchus 01:15, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Cookamunga

Cookamunga (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) I have blocked this user for 24 hours for vandalism/nonsense edit summaries/disruption. (Please see also deletions: Template:PantsText and Category:Articles containing Pants). I think there's a good case for an indef. block as a disruption-only account (he also seems to have found his way around remarkably well for a newbie). Please review and extend if necessary. --kingboyk 01:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I blocked it indefinitely as a vandal/harassment account. Antandrus (talk) 01:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, up to no good. -Will Beback 08:53, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Death threat?

24.171.16.151 (talk · contribs) posted this; looks like a bit too close to a death threat to me. What is the best course of action here? Guettarda 02:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't seem to have a lot of constructive edits in the first place... --InShaneee 02:56, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any threat here. However, I agree with InShaneee, and this IP has been previously blocked several time sfor violating 3RR on Aryan Nation-related articles. --Golbez 02:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Since it's not a shared IP, I went ahead and put on an indef block. This stuff is un-called for. And yes, it is a death threat, here's the quote: "Look you need to stop harrassing me, if you have a problem with the Aryan Nations you state it but if you are a friend or follower of this williams fraud you will reap the same demise." --Cyde Weys 03:00, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I just blocked him for a week while we all figured out what to do. But I don't disagree with an indef block since it seems to be a static IP; I'll rescind the shorter block and reapply Cyde's. · Katefan0/poll

He is definitely a problem on the Jonathan Williams AfD as well. Apparently there was a split in the Aryan Nations when somebody important died, and 24 thinks Williams is not a "Real" Aryan Nations pastor. Its astonishing that he would be resorting to this since the AfD is actually going his way, despite the massive sockpuppetry. A short ban for incivility and disruption was warranted anyway. Indef is too long for a first offense, though. AGF that he will learn from the experience. Thatcher131 04:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that a death threat, even a vague one, is so poisonous that it requires an indef block. Guettarda 11:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

WP:POINT AfDs by Dhanks

Dhanks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has engaged in a series of revenge AfDs on articles started by people who voted delete for his article Enterprise Audit Shell. This is after he engaged in a series of reversions of the AfD tag on his article. He has added AfD tags to Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger, Sprint William W. Hoppin and a few others. JoshuaZ 04:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

He has also engaged in general attacks on "ignorant" Misplaced Pages editors which he has repeatedly reverted back into the top of the Enterprise Audit Shell article. JoshuaZ 04:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

• I added the aFDs because I felt the articles didn't meet the WD standards. If you feel they meet the standard, please use the discussion to prove why it should not be deleted. Dhanks 05:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

People aren't concerned with your feelings. They are interested in your arguments (if you have any). As is clearly explained here and on related pages, anyone nominating an article for deletion must say which standard(s) they believe that article fails to meet. If you don't follow through after adding AfD templates, these additions are likely to be viewed as pointlessly disruptive. -- Hoary 05:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

• I'm new to adding aFDs so excuse me if I didn't complete the process fully. I will add my reason next time. Dhanks 05:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
  • WP:AGF The AfD process is quite tricky the first time, as I can attest from personal experience. It may help to open multiple browser windows or tabs, such as in Firefox, so you can have the instructions available while you are working on the process. Thatcher131 05:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I am going to remove the incomplete AfD templates from the articles per WP:SNOWBALL that they would actually get deleted following a legitimate AfD discussion. However, if yoeu wish to renominate them, carefully follow the procedure. Thanks. Thatcher131 05:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
• As of late the user in question has added some templates to the page which I would find as a reasonable compromise. If the AFD vote should result in deletion, I would hope that Dhanks would abide by that decision. I would have no problem with Dhanks adding a brief paragraph mentioning Enterprise Open Shell as a fork of sudosh on that article's page. I think it is more likely at this time that a user of sudosh, the current established product, would enter the query sudossh to find more information about enhancements, future versions, or information on competing products. Since Open Enterprise Shell claims to be sudosh version 2.0, in the interiem it should be best that it stay in the sudosh article. If in the future various open source unixish distros decide to include open enterprise shell, it then should get its own page in a more abbreviated form than it is now. Personally I think that Dhanks energy should be promoting his fork of sudossh to be included as a package with various unix/bsd distributions which would be greatly more important to his market share than a mere wikipedia article. Bige1977 07:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Deuterium

This user's userpage, , is basically just an attack on group of editors that he has a problem with. I think this is rather inappropriate. Also this user has twice placed this propaganda website in the The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy article. I think he may just be unfamilar with wikiquette so I think he should just recieve a warning, but since I have been involved in a conflict with him I'm sure I would appear to have ulterior motives if I warned him.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 07:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Heh. Only the vandals and the admins try to use policy, and he's certainly no admin. But Jayjg was perfectly justified in using WP:RS to delete the blog link, so I can't see what Deut's real problem is Sceptre 11:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

24.68.240.0/24

I've blocked the 24.68.240.0/24 range for a week as checkuser reveals it was being used exclusively by Lightbringer sockpuppets. Hopefully, this will bring us some rest from the constant sockpuppetry, but I'm not going to hold my breath. In the meantime, if there are any reports of collateral damage, please unblock, and let me know so I can investigate. Essjay 09:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:ManiF

I've just received this message on my Talk page. As I'm involved in a dispute with User:ManiF, I don't want to get involved with this, but a quick investigation indicates that there is some substance to the complaint (note, on the other hand, that there are also editors who are engaged in the opposite abuse: trying to insist that Persians were actually Arabs... see Al-Karaji, for example). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Mel Etitis,

I want to report the fanatical patriotism behaviour of a user User:ManiF. The following are only recent examples.

Geber, although he was born in Iran(part of the arab empire at that time), his ethnicity is with most certainity arab: Columbia Encyclopedia , Ancients & Alchemists , Britannica Encyclopedia, Encarta Encyclopedia .

In the articles, where his ethnicity is not important, In good faith I removed info regarding his arab ethnicity, but this user inserted "Iranian-born" infront of his name to make the impression that he was Iranian.

• Hydrochloric acid
• Sulfuric acid
• Citric acid
• Alembic
• Alchemy - he removed Geber (arab) and replaced him by al-Razi(persian), although all discovires muriatic, sulfuric, and nitric acids, soda, potash) described were done by Geber.

• List of Arab scientists and scholars - wanted to rename List of Arab scientists and scholars to List of Muslim scientists and scholars, although ofcourse the List of Iranian scientists should stay. (I was blocked 24H because of this).

If I am wrong on this than please let me know. If not, then I ask you please to do what ever in your hands is to stop the fanatical patritiosm of this user, which is a threat to the success and credibality of Misplaced Pages.

Thank You. Jidan 11:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

There is no substance to this "complaint". I've not violated any policy either, and nor would I take any action that is not in conformity with Misplaced Pages rules and regulations. User:Jidan on the other hand, has been breaking wikipedia rules regularly (3RR, sockpuppetry, false accusations, personal attacks as per above), and the one who originally removed the term "Iranian-born" from those articles despite the fact that Gaber, regardless of his Arab ethenicty which is itself disputed by contradictory sources , was infact Iranian-born, born in the city of Tus, according to all the sources. I just restored the term. --ManiF 11:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:132.241.246.111 disruption

The user, a suspected sockpuppet of User:Grazon according to the talk page, has made a lot of edits in the last couple of days (I haven't looked back further yet), virually every one of which has been reverted or should be reverted (I'm working my way back through the contributions list). Most of the edits are removals of conservative external links with no explanation, but a few are subtle vandalism, changing one character in a URL to link to a different, unrelated article. -- Donald Albury 12:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Swatjester disruption

I'd like an opinion on this. Not sure what to call it. Could be gaming, trolling, general disruption, or nothing at all: Talk:Pro-choice#Problem_with_Formatting Pro-choice history Immediately after Swatjester ran up against the 3RR wall, Freakofnurture jumped in. Then, I left a talk-page message that did not get a response, nor was the revert undone: User_talk:Freakofnurture#Pro-Choice_revert

At the same time, Zoe made a citation request and content deletion ("rm nonsense") to the Anal Cunt article that I provided cleanup assistance to moments earlier. Zoe has no history of ever editing this article. I have since provided the citations and rewritten the content because the quotes didn't match exactly. Despite Zoe's Anal Cunt expertise, however, no citation request was placed on a nearly identical paragraph that appears in Seth Putnam's article (which I have not edited), where Zoe also has no history editing the article.--Pro-Lick 13:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Block of User:MonMan

MonMan was suggested as a sockpuppet of me by User:Mais oui! (a user that disagrees with me). It was proposed on Misplaced Pages:Requests for CheckUser on 08:47, 7 April 2006 and blocked indefinitely a mere 4 hours later at 12:51, 7 April 2006 by User:JzG (an admin who supports Mais oui!s PoV). There has been no evidence produced and no evidence asked of either myself or MonMan. This is clearly a malicious block and should be reversed as soon as possible. Owain (talk) 14:22, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Is MonMan actually a sockpuppet of yours, or do you refute the claim? CheckUser evidence is not open to the general public anyway. —BorgHunter (talk) 14:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The discussion is here; he refutes the claim, asserting MonMan is a friend but a different person. Essjay says meatpuppetry rather than sockpuppetry cannot be ruled out. Angr (talk • contribs) 14:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Why has the sockpuppet MonMan (talk · contribs) been blocked, but the sockpuppeteer Owain (talk · contribs) has not? Kind of a waste of everybody's time if we uncover sockpuppetry, but then do nothing about it? What kind of message does that send to the massed ranks of vandals?--Mais oui! 15:12, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Haham hanuka

Although he is blocked, user Haham hanuka keeps on evading his block from various IPs. I suggest banning him for a much longer time now, or indefinitely as the Hebrew Misplaced Pages has done, because clearly this user does not care about our conventions. He hardly makes a constructive contribution and mostly disrupts. He is very time consuming, time that we all could spend differently here. I have left a request at WP:RFCU. I hope we can change our muddling through method to a root approach this time. gidonb 15:05, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

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