Misplaced Pages

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Message Page for Conrad Dunkerson (CBDunkerson)
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Template Magic

Archives
General: 7/14/04-4/5/06 Templates Tolkien Disputes RFAs Barnstars

Hello again. Our paths began to cross when I inquired at the HD about a place that turned out to be WP:FC. Well, from there I, after some additional prompting from Rick, I decided to learn more about the underlying wiki markup. I was astonished at the amount of code required to do something as seemingly simple as providing a random selection of our best and featured stuff, at that time I had no inkling of switch or case. Anyway, I then saw how you you took a routine like day+1 and used your skills to re-implement it as tomorrow and I said wow! From there I found your RfA still in progress and AzaToth's recently failed bid (I have notified him of my intent to support him in his next bid). Hmmm... I forgot why I started this conversation... ooh ooh, now I remember, is there a place for me (or anyone ) to learn about all of the wiki markup available to us or do we need to learn it piecemeal by studying the works of folks like yourself, Rick, and Aza (you... you... template masters you). Thanks BTW for your very detailed response to my thoughts about "improving" FC, it seems that you have thought it out quite thoroughly without my meddling. As for my own skills, a true challenge for me was to find a way of recoding a program on an HP 48 to accomplish in 1 minute what was requiring 10 minutes (perhaps that's why I admire your template work so damn much). hydnjo talk 23:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Hydnjo. There isn't a single 'training guide' for markup and templates, but there are a number of useful pages. The best single page to start at is Misplaced Pages:Markup#Wiki_markup... which contains an overview of all aspects of Misplaced Pages 'coding'. From there Help:Table is the standard document for table markup - though MediaWiki:Common.css is also critical for understanding the pre-defined CSS styles used in most tables. From there the real 'coding' aspects can be found in Help:A quick guide to templates, Help:Template, and m:Help:Advanced templates... which are progressively more detailed (and less organized) examinations of template and parameter logic. Finally, Help:Magic words, Help:Variable, Template:Wikivar are largely redundant pages for information on special tags and commands which are often very useful to templates (both WP:FC and the various date templates rely on these to work at all).

All that being said, I think I picked up more from just jumping in and seeing what was out there than I did from the help documentation. The above links are good resources for looking up details, but experimenting is the most certain way to learn. Believe me, it doesn't take long - a few months ago I didn't know what a Wiki-template was. The best place to look for good examples of existing templates (and most of the 'utility' templates which make others easier to write) is Category:Misplaced Pages special effects templates and especially the 'if templates' and 'boolean templates' subcategories there.

Finally, you might just keep an eye on the contributions of User:AzaToth, User:Netoholic, User:Locke Cole, User:Ed Poor, and other skilled template writers to see what sort of template work they are doing currently. Alot of this stuff evolves as people come up with new ways of doing things and then we all debate the pros and cons of each methodology. --CBDunkerson 23:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks & Help

Your changes to Template:Good Job are great; thanks. Since you seem to be an expert on templates, could you help me with User:Iamthejabberwock/Welcome? When I use, for example, {{subst:User:Iamthejabberwock/Welcome|user=|article=Misplaced Pages|topic=Rush|portal=Music}} - for welcoming an anonymous user who edited Misplaced Pages, is interested in Rush and might want to visit Portal:Music - it produces a result that looks good, but contains the original variable formatting: {{{anon| }}}. Could you advise me of a way to either (1) stop this formatting from being included or (2) switch to a more effecient method of varying the contents of the message? Thanks, TheJabberwock 02:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Works perfectly! Muchas gracias. TheJabberwock 19:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, nvm, the formatting is still there. See here. It's not a huge problem, but I'd like the welcome to look less mechanized if the user happens to click "edit." TheJabberwock 20:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Excellent! Thanks again. TheJabberwock 23:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the support

Hi CBDunkerson- thanks a lot for your support on my recent, (barely) successful rfa. Please feel free to leave me any comments or criticisms on my talk page! --He:ah? 22:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Kusma's RfA

Hello, CBDunkerson! Thank you for your support in my recent successful request for adminship. If you ever have problems that you could use my assistance with or see me doing stupid things with my new buttons, don't hesitate to contact me. Happy editing, Kusma (討論) 02:38, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Favor

Hey CBD, I don't know what I was thinking, but I accidentally created a talk page at Talk:WikiProject Middle-earth/archive1. Is there a way you could delete it? —Mirlen 16:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Poof. :] --CBDunkerson 16:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

You're a lifesaver, thanks CBD. :) —Mirlen 16:40, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

References

There's a user who added awards that Ian McKellen won in the Gandalf article, and referenced it from an IMBD site. What would be the proper ciatation then — and is a source really needed then, since it's a factual information that's generally in all sources and not controversial/disputed? (Could you respond on my talk page?—thanks!) —Mirlen 20:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay thanks, btw, I was browsing around the internet, and guess what I found on — content from the HoME books (I don't have them right now):

From Volume 10: The Annals of Aman:

1495 - The Flight of the Noldor begins.

1496 - Prophecy of the North.

1497 - The Exiles reach Helcaraxe. Fëanor sets foot upon Middle-earth.

1500 - Host of Fingolfin reaches Beleriand.

From Volume 11: The Grey Annals:

1500 - Host of Fingolfin come at last into Beleriand. "Even as they set foot upon Middle-:earth, the age of the Stars were ended, and the time of the Sun and Moon was begun, as is told in the Chronicle of Aman."

Year of the Sun

1 - First the Moon came forth as Fingolfin began his march into Middle-earth...soon after there came the first Dawn of the Sun.

On the ending of the First Age:

From Volume 11: The Tale of Years

545 - War of Wrath begins.

587 - War of Wrath ends.

590 - Melkor is cast out. The First Age ends here.

When I get the HoME books, I can accurately reference it and fix up the Timeline of Arda. —Mirlen 22:09, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Mikeabundo

Mikeabundo continues to spam Numa Numa with a link to his nonnotable forum. He has been warned repeatedly that consensus is against him (see Talk:Numa Numa), but refuses to comply, has an RFC against him right now for self-promotion, and refuses to take his repeated warnings seriously. Please block him for at least 24 hours. Thanks. KI 02:17, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Tenses

Sorry to badger you again CBD, but are the Tolkien related articles in present or past tense? In this discussion it is said that it should be in past tense, (which I agree with, partly because it's strange to write in present tense for Tolkien articles), so I thought it'd be written in past tense, but somebody reverted the tenses on a Tolkien related article saying the the MoS said to write it in present tense for fiction, so now I am rather confused. —Mirlen 14:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks CBD, I think I will plead our case in making an exception for Tolkien articles, btu I will start with baby steps at a time in this, of course. —Mirlen 16:12, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Let's see how it turns out. And I'll defend our case through thick and thin...I think I have some reasonable rebuttals. I may a pacificist, but as my userbox says, I am a pacificist who will fight for his/her beliefs 'til the bitter end. ;) (I'm awaiting response from the user about the tenses, so I have to see how it turns out). —Mirlen 16:30, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Wesley Smith

Hey, thanks for redirecting Wesley Smith to Central News. Only problem is that someone has since merged Central News to their owner: Central Independent Television so, Wesley Smith is now a double link. Can you send it directly to Central Independent Television? Thanks! Avraham 15:39, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppet?

Two users with the same account methinks: Abdullahazzam and Abdullah Azzam. The user posted at the M-E WikiProject things to do page as Abdullahazzam under the account Abdullah Azzam, as to erase evidence of me pointing out his mistakes (that we all make) and to follow the policy — which is evident from here to here. Would he be blocked, or would this be a case of an exception beause he's new? See, I'm unfamiliar with what do in cases of sockpuppets, but since you're a sysop, do whatever admins are suppose to do in sockpuppet cases. —Mirlen 18:32, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I should've checked the logs — I'd forgotten that you could make a link to a unregistered account. *smacks head* Anyway, I think this is why I need some coaching from experienced users or admin, like the program they have over at Esperanza. Not sure if I want to be an admin, but I still feel like a newbie — so I want to improve myself to be better. Anyway, thanks CBD, if there's anything I can do for you (which probably isn't that much), but if there is, please tell me. You've done so much for me, I feel like I need to do something! —Mirlen 10:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't mean that I wanted to admin now, I just meant that I wasn't sure if I wanted to be. I was talking about this admin coaching they had at Esperanza, so that's why it came up. Now that you've confronted me with the possibility, I don't feel ready at all. I feel...unworthy and undeserving of the position. (It's sounds so self-deprecating, but it's true). Not yet — I still feel like a novice. But thanks for the advice and encouragement, CBD, it's means a lot to me. :) (I'm working on the redesign of the Standards page on my sandbox — still starting on it, but do you have any suggestions or standards that I might add?) —Mirlen 22:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

A KISS Rfa Thanks

Thank you, I've been promoted. pschemp | talk 01:16, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Standards

The templates sounds like a good idea! As for the rest, I'll talk more tomorrow. I'm getting kicked off the computer. :P —Mirlen 02:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree — the more that's included in the standards, the better. I'm unfamiliar with the name translation at the top. I've always placed them in the 'Trivia' section, but if placing them at the top is the standards, then alright. Do you have an example I could follow? (Not that I don't believe or anything). As for the spoiler warnings, I think they should be placed after the intro and before the contents. I think legendarium should be used because people will be tempted to put 'fictional universe' of Middle-earth — where there's places like Aman/Valinor. Date formats, course. I also think instead of explaining what happened and say, "in the Return of the King..." — we should use the dates (i.e. 2987 T.A.). The rest I agree with. I've been placing the banner on the talk pages of articles. —Mirlen 23:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you! Hello CBDunkerson. Thank you for your support in my RfA! It passed with a final tally of 91/3/5. I am quite humbled and pleased by the community's show of confidence in me. If you need help or just want to talk, let me know. Cheers! -- Fang Aili

Nice job! Thanks!

...on merging the two US Senator boxes. That kinda bugged me that there were two -- redesigning and redirect is a nice simple solution. Well done. -- Sholom 20:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Usenet notability

Was just browsing VFD from the ME WikiProject and noticed this: Misplaced Pages:Votes_for_deletion/Meow_Wars. Surely if that survived VfD then certain other flame wars might stand a chance? :-) I've also been checking out Category:Newsgroups, but can't work out what the bar for notability is for Usenet newsgroups. Carcharoth 11:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Infobox Aircraft

CBD - I have a favor to ask of you. Can you work with me to update {{Infobox Aircraft}}? The template is way to generic and is not being used by any articles. I think this is a prime candidate for creating a detailed infobox. Ideally it would be flexible for both civilian and military aircraft - see (Boeing 737, Pipers, F-15, ] B-2 Spirit. I have left a message about my suggestion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Aircraft. Thanks! --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 14:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

My apologies for sending you on this wild goose chase - it looks like they have already decided what works well for them. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 15:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Babel-X

Hi Conrad. I'm attempting to implement your nice Babel-X template here on Memory Alpha, and I'm not having any luck in getting it to work. For some reason, the HTML <tr> and <td> tags don't seem to be working (but if I recall correctly, they did work before the latest MediaWiki upgrade). As far as I can tell, both MA and Misplaced Pages are running the same software versions, so I'm not sure where to look. I also noticed that the title line isn't centering properly, either. Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide! -- Renegade54 15:54, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi. There were three problems. First the '{{#if:' format relies on new features that were just implemented for Misplaced Pages yesterday. I confirmed that Memory Alpha isn't using those and then reverted back to the '{{{if|' format. The centering difference was due to CSS differences between the two sites - basically, Misplaced Pages has predefined formatting at MediaWiki:Common.css and Memory Alpha doesn't have exactly the same pre-defined formats. I put in the centering manually to get around this. Finally the HTML tags were behaving oddly. I have no idea what was causing this... the first few sets were displaying as text, but then they were kicking in and evaluating correctly. Normal wiki table markup (i.e. |-, |, !, et cetera) can't be used because the '|' character confuses the '{{{if|' logic. To get around that I created a 'Template:!' which just inserts a '|' character. This allows wiki-markup to be mimicked and doesn't interfere with the other logic. I wrote up a version using that methodology and copied it out for up to 20 babel boxes. Can be extended if need be. --CBDunkerson 17:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

{{FCpages}}

Um - have I missed a discussion about moving the generic section of {{fapages}} and {{FLpages}} to a sub-template? The nice little "←" doesn't display on WP:FLC any longer, for example... -- ALoan (Talk) 17:08, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

More template magic

Thanks for giving me some examples of how to use Tim Starling's #expr: feature. I've joined you in converting some of my old-style templates to the new format, and they seem a WHOLE LOT faster. I've also renamed a few, replacing the User:Ed Poor/ bit with Template: to publish them.

I have more ideas for date math. Stay tuned! --Uncle Ed 16:08, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

DefCon boxes

Hey Cool Cat. In reference to the DefCon boxes which you marked for speedy. Would you object to them instead being 'de-userfied' into template space? It seems like alot of people are using them currently. --CBDunkerson 14:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

The wikipedia comunity (made out of few determined users) have hammered me for creating the defcon template etc.. They forced/ordered me to move them to my userspace or else they would vandalise/maliciously edit the templates in question. So if you want to move them to templatespace, good luck.

I dont care what happens to it so long as it isnt in my userspace since I am not allowed to participate in rc patrol, I do not want anything implying I have anything to do with WP:CVU.

--Cool Cat 18:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Template functions

Just bringing to your attention Category:Conversion templates (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) and specifically a note on the talk page suggesting that we standardize on a naming convention for future template functions. I'll be passing this note along to AzaToth and Ligulem; feel free to post it/mention it anywhere else you think it would help to raise awareness and avoid the duplication of work. =) —Locke Cole • t • c 01:58, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

History of Arda template

I've made some changes to the History of Arda template, and started a discussion on the template talk page. I'm a bit stuck on some bits of table formatting and linking, so I wondered if you'd be able to help? Carcharoth 07:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)