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I used to usually archive every 50 topic headings or when this talk page exceeds 30KB or becomes messy. Now as I edge closer to retirement, MiszaBot III is in charge of archiving my talk page. If you wish to revitalize an archived discussion, please copy and paste all text, formatting included, to the bottom of this page. Thanks!
There's a user who added awards that Ian McKellen won in the Gandalf article, and referenced it from an IMBD site. What would be the proper ciatation then — and is a source really needed then, since it's a factual information that's generally in all sources and not controversial/disputed? (Could you respond on my talk page?—thanks!) —Mirlen20:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, IMDB would be a reasonable 'secondary source' under the 'reliable sources' policy, but you could also go directly to the primary sources... which issue press releases and likely have their own web sites with this information. While this info is readily available I don't think it rises to the level of common knowledge because alot of people wouldn't just know about it offhand. Bottom line - in most articles I wouldn't worry about sources for easily available facts, but if Gandalf were up for 'featured article' status (which it should be some day) I'm sure source citations for those awards would be requested and the IMDB page would probably be acceptable for that, but should probably be in a Template:Cite web format. --CBDunkerson20:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
How do I add to the list?
Hi, i'm with the stargate wikiproject. I don't know how to add articles to the list on the recomendations page. Here is the list the porject came up with. I'm not sure how to use your format. Tobyk77701:28, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to badger you again CBD, but are the Tolkien related articles in present or past tense? In this discussion it is said that it should be in past tense, (which I agree with, partly because it's strange to write in present tense for Tolkien articles), so I thought it'd be written in past tense, but somebody reverted the tenses on a Tolkien related article saying the the MoS said to write it in present tense for fiction, so now I am rather confused. —Mirlen14:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, people disagree on that. The 'use present tense' view was added to Misplaced Pages:Guide to writing better articles (which is sort of a subpage of the MoS) by Nohat last May. As shown in that diff, the example prior to that actually used past tense. Obviously, I think past tense makes much more sense for Tolkien, but some people apply that suggested guideline universally. --CBDunkerson15:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks CBD, I think I will plead our case in making an exception for Tolkien articles, btu I will start with baby steps at a time in this, of course. —Mirlen16:12, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
One thing to note with that - Tolkien usually (but not always) described events in his own stories in the past tense. There are dozens of examples in his letters. I think the fact that he was a noted scholar and commentator, not to mention the author, makes a strong case for such usage being acceptable. I've made some changes to the article guide to say that past tense can be used for fictional histories. We'll see if they stick. --CBDunkerson16:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Hey, Mirlen. Thanks for the heads-up on that: I won't change tenses in Tolkien articles. The arguments for using past tense in this case make sense to me. (You can understand how I missed the discussion, though, since it was buried in a portal talk page!) Incidentally, thanks for all the good work you've done on Tolkien-related pages — I've polished a smudge or two, but in the past few months you've done some serious rebuilding, and the pages are much better for it. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 22:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh, hah, thanks. You've done some good edits around here too — fixing up after my mistakes (like the Faramir page with the captions). Which reminds me, I wasn't sure if you were interested, but would you like to join Middle-earth WikiProject (we focus on anything Tolkien-related, not just M-E btw). The whole information is on one of our welcome templates {{TWwelcome}}, if you want a nutshell. Anyway, glad this was settled nicely — usually I have to get ready with a rebuttal :P —Mirlen23:04, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Hmm... thanks for the invitation. I'm tempted, but I'm pretty busy with the Doctor Who WikiProject, and I'm not sure whether I'd have time for two! I will definitely keep an eye on the Middle-earth WikiProject, and try to stay current with any standards you come up with. (Incidentally, you folks might like to take a glance at Gift of Men — SanjaySingh has done some good work there, but I'm slightly worried that a bit of it might be heading towards original research. (I tried to tone it down, but Sanjay was a bit sensitive about it — perhaps another view would be helpful.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, the quality and content of writing is superb (far more superb than what I can write as of now) — but I'm afraid it does have a bit of POV and individual interpretation. It's hard for Tolkien fans to write it in an encyclopedic way, instead as a Tolkien scholar (I myself received a constructive criticism from a fellow Tolkien editor about that) — so I can also see where the user is coming from. I hope he/she knows that it is not the writing nor the quality we are criticizing, it's the fact that it contains a Tolkien scholar's interpretation in a journal as opposed to writing an article with the facts in an encyclopedia. It's hard to see the fine line, especially when writing about a piece of literature (it's difficult not to insert your own interpretation), but perhaps you should suggest that if the interpretation is a concensus interpretation accepted by most Tolkien fans, then there should be a lot of references and notes supporting that generally-accepted interpretation. (If the argument gets deeper, then I would reccomend asking the view of CBD — he is more experienced and because he knows more in-depth about the policy than me, he would be a better judge of this conflict). —Mirlen00:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The conversation has been fairly civil so far, and fortunately hasn't developed into an edit war. But thanks for checking it out and giving a second opinion. (I agree that it's quite well-written, and also a bit too original research-y for Misplaced Pages; I've written another comment to Sanjay, and I hope he'll be able to take it in the constructive spirit it was intended. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Re: References
Hm... well, if it's alright with you, could you start on the character list pages? Since I've almost finished the individual character pages, most (and hopefully all) of the references you may need (I don't know what they'll be since I've not looked over there yet) should already be on the individual character pages or one of the other plot-related pages (Mythology of Final Fantasy X or Spira) and that could speed things up for you since you could just copy and paste them. If that sounds okay with you, we can try it that way, but if you had another suggestion, I'm open to it.
Thanks for the compliments, by the way. And, by the way again, nice user page and talk page. Looks real nice. Ryu Kaze16:35, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Hey, don't worry about motivation. I'm not even sure where I get it from, but like I was telling Deckiller, this project has been really long and is starting to burn me out. Which is funny, because I've already done about 30 pages and am in the home-stretch now. XD So any help at this point would be appreciated, even if it just those two list pages. In all honesty, list pages tend to immidate me more than any others (which is why I saved the list pages for VII for last when I was going through those).
And thanks again for your kind words. That's very nice of you to say and quite flattering to hear (I have no shame in saying I enjoy being complimented XD). If you really would like to tinker with my page's design and try to make it look nicer -- and, really, with how it's looking right now, it could only go up from here -- I would appreciate that. Don't put yourself to any trouble if it would be, but if it's something you'd like to do and it won't be a hassle, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks for offering. Have a good one. Ryu Kaze16:51, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks again. And, you know, it's never really concerned me to edit the FFVII pages, though I've always understood that it should. That game inspired so much speculation and fan-based ideas that -- for many -- discerning fancruft from canon is quite difficult. I've heard others say that they're somewhat intimidated by editing a FFVII page simply because of the potential for pissing off so many people, but -- and maybe it's because I've got the FFVII Ultimania Omega, Square-Enix's own official guide to the game's story -- I'm not all that concerned with it. There was an edit war a while back between people editing that Tifa's hair is brown/black and her eyes red/brown and it was just stupid... I just went in and edited it, and in the edit history I put something like "Tifa's hair is black. See Advent Children. Tifa's eyes are brown. Again, see Advent Children. End of story." XD
For whatever reason, though, I hate editing list pages. Those three location, character and terms pages for FFVII felt like they took longer than any others. I think I must just be naturally inclined toward straight prose, because I can run through that stuff like it's nothing (even Cloud Strife's bio, as you can see), but a list page makes me go "Um... are we sure there's nothing else that needs to be worked on first?" Another problem I have: talking too much. XD I'll stop here. Ryu Kaze17:09, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I'll give them a look-over sometime tonight or tomorrow, whenever you've had time to go over them. It's only those two X and X-2 character lists (thank God we don't have any more of them), and they aren't as long as any of VII's were, so I'm not too concerned about looking at them. I'll just say that at this point, I know I can survive.
And, yeah, I'm right there with you on trying to avoid inserting LT views into stuff on Tifa, Aerith and Cloud. You can't tell by reading my edits, probably (or should I say "hopefully"?), but I too have very strong views on that matter. Ryu Kaze17:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I assume you weren't able to get much done with the references yesterday because of the server errors, but thanks for the attempt. I thought I'd let you know that I've already gotten everything done but the two list pages. Thanks again. Have a good one. Ryu Kaze18:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll be fine with taking it upon myself to finish. I've nearly completed the list for X now, and after that, it's only X-2's to go. I don't think there is an FF barnstar, by the way, but thanks nonetheless. XD
Two users with the same account methinks: Abdullahazzam and Abdullah Azzam. The user posted at the M-E WikiProject things to do page as Abdullahazzam under the account Abdullah Azzam, as to erase evidence of me pointing out his mistakes (that we all make) and to follow the policy — which is evident from here to here. Would he be blocked, or would this be a case of an exception beause he's new? See, I'm unfamiliar with what do in cases of sockpuppets, but since you're a sysop, do whatever admins are suppose to do in sockpuppet cases. —Mirlen18:32, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages actually allows sockpuppets though they are generally discouraged. There are just restrictions on what they can do. For instance you aren't supposed to use a sockpuppet to edit while blocked, stack votes, or get around the three revert rule. That being said, I don't think that second account actually exists. There aren't any contributions listed for it and I can't find a record of the account being created in the log. It is always possible to create a link to User:Snerfledegranimusberfenhousen or what have you, but there isn't anything there if an account under that name hasn't been created.
As to removing comments from your talk page without replying to them... it is generally considered "hostile", but allowed (except in cases of vandals removing warnings) and not in itself grounds for any sort of action. --CBDunkerson19:16, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
The second account (Account 2) User:Abdullah Azzam in fact does not exist. You can tell by comparing it to (Account 1) User:Abdullahazzam. On account 1 there is a "User contributions" link, while not on the second account. Perhaps his sig reads Abdullah Azzam or even links to that "user" page, but the second account doesn't register in any way. -Xol01:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Ah, I should've checked the logs — I'd forgotten that you could make a link to a unregistered account. *smacks head* Anyway, I think this is why I need some coaching from experienced users or admin, like the program they have over at Esperanza. Not sure if I want to be an admin, but I still feel like a newbie — so I want to improve myself to be better. Anyway, thanks CBD, if there's anything I can do for you (which probably isn't that much), but if there is, please tell me. You've done so much for me, I feel like I need to do something! —Mirlen10:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
You've got enough 'time served' and edits in various areas that you could probably pass an RFA currently. Only thing I would suggest is reading up a bit more on wiki/admin policies and procedures. You've done a great job pushing the Tolkien wikiproject into an 'active' status and have alot of other areas of contribution. I'd be happy to nominate you when/if you want to give it a shot. --CBDunkerson12:14, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
We all have our areas of expertise. You don't have to understand all of the technical details/procedures; everyone needs help / makes mistakes. As for adminship, I'd recommend waiting a month or so, just to boost edit stats a bit. But you've got about the same number of edits as Jedi6 and he looks like he's going to make admin status. I'd also be happy to nominate/support you if you ever run for admin, but look at Jedi6's RFA for what you could do to become more of a shoe-in. -Xol02:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your support and advice, Xol. But I didn't mean that I wanted to be an admin now, just that I wasn't sure if I wanted to be. The subject came up because they had this user-improving program at Esperanza that was called admin coaching. But to tell you the truth, I don't feel ready at all. I don't feel fitting or ready for the position at all. If I am interested in the future, I'd have to feel at least that I was worthy of it, and stop feeling like a novice. Thanks again, Xol :) — I appreciate what you said. —Mirlen 23:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
You're welcome. I was just (also) trying to point out that you are a quite competent editor. :) -Xol00:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Standards
In reference to what to include in the WP:WPME standards - the more the better. We can always discuss / change things if they don't have consensus long term. I'd say we should include the 'standard book citation list' that was discussed, use special characters (i.e. 'é', 'ö', et cetera) in names, correct spelling of "Tolkien"/"Middle-earth"/other common errors (i.e. 'Tolkein', 'Silmarilon', 'Illuvatar', et cetera), when to have a separate 'list' article and when to include the list in the main article, including name translation for each article at the top, when to use 'spoiler' warnings, 'legendarium' or whatever standard term for describing Middle-earth ('fictional world' / 'fictional universe' / et cetera), date formats, including the wikiproject banner on talk pages, and so forth. Alot of these should be tools not only for making things consistent, but also easier. I've been thinking it might make sense to have the book citations in a special template so you could use {{subst:HoME|5}} to add the standard citation for 'The Lost Road and Other Writings' (fifth book in the 'History of Middle-earth' series). There is already the {{tolklang}} template for name translations. Possibly something to produce date citations in a standardized format. I can put together the templates if people think they are worthwhile. --CBDunkerson00:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Moving pages
Please do not "move" pages by cutting and pasting the content, as you did with Anke-Katrin Eißmann to Anke Katrin Eißmann, but use the "move" button. See Help:Moving a page for a how-to. Moving by cut and page destroys the Misplaced Pages:Page history and violates copyright, so please don't do it again. I will fix your cut and paste move now (but doing so requires administrator powers). Just ask me if you have further questions on this, happy editing, Kusma(討論)02:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
It wasn't a big problem. Actually, I was glad I had such an easy and obvious case for the first time I did a history merge :-) Kusma(討論)00:14, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Star Wars WikiProject
Hi there, again :-). I did hear about the SW WikiProject over here a little while ago, and have looked into it (to some extent, at least). It seems like a good idea, and I applaud all of you for your efforts; but I'm not sure if I have enough time to do the project justice. I'm already pretty involved with Wookieepedia, and my to-do list there is ever-expanding (after looking at your user page and the number of Wikis you have edited, I am sure you know what I mean :-) In addition, my RL obligations are climbing sharply, especially in the near-future. I may become more available over the summer, though it's really too early to tell. Good to talk to you again, and thanks for the note. Rmfitzgerald5001:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Maedhros
Hi Mirlen. I looked over Maedhros, added the reference on the last trivia bullet, and made a few other minor adjustments. Looks very good to me. --CBDunkerson01:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the chocolate and happy Easter to you as well. :]
I agree that English spellings make sense for the Tolkien articles. Misplaced Pages does a bit of each, but in cases where the article subject is specifically about something from England or the United States the 'local' spellings are used. Middle-earth has enough of a connection to England that it makes sense to stick with that. --CBDunkerson21:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Happy Easter to you, as well. No worries about the delay. Take your time.
I don't particularly celebrate any religious holiday, myself, at least not in a religious capacity. I'm not an atheist myself, but I'm not religious either. I'm not exactly agnostic either, though, because we can't exactly prove most supernatural things. I guess "spiritual" would be the best word. XD
Anyway, yes, chocolate is wonderful. I'd love some now that I've seen that picture, and I'll be wanting it until I get some now. Thanks a lot. XD *goes to buy chocolate*
Mirlen, thanks for the Easter well-wishes. I hope you have a happy Easter as well. GUÐSÞEGN – UTEX – 19:22, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Your so kind. :) Thanks for the Easter wishes, happy Easter to you too. And your right, I can't resist chocoalte. Ted8702:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the Easter wishes! I love chocolate and have being trying very hard not to eat too much! The chocolate bunnies were delicious! :-) Carcharoth10:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
busy
Welcome to Mirlen's talk page!
Status: Currently actively editing selected articles, going on the occasional vandalism patrol, with retirement in the future in mind.
