Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Daniel (talk | contribs) at 01:07, 29 May 2012 (Protected Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Fæ: Per direction of the Arbitration Committee; if you are a new or unregistered user wishing to contribute to this case, please contact a Committee clerk. (‎ (indefinit). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Non-party statements

Statement by Themfromspace

This confrontation stems from Fae's controversial RFA and subsequent user RFC. Views at the RFC were divided over the legitamacy of Fae's adminship when it was alleged that heleft his previous account "under a cloud". Questions were raised about the scope of ArbCom's involvement in the RFA (Fae stated that it was sanctioned by ArbCom; John Vandenberg stated that Fae was mistaken and that only he endorsed the RFA). Compounding the difficulty of the situation are allegations of harrassment, outing, and tendentious editing. I think there have been more than enough attempts at dispute resolution, documented above by MBisanz, to warrant an in-depth look. The committee should accept the case to examine the procedure of Fae's original RFA and post-RFA behaviour, as well as general user conduct in the dispute resolution process. ThemFromSpace 23:40, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Moreschi

In my spare time I have delved into this a fair amount. It is fairly clear that had all the information been available at the time that the original RFA would not have passed, but then again the original RFA voters also knew that something was up and still passed it anyway. This was probably an error of judgment on their part, just as Fae and John V erred in judgment in not fully disclosing Fae's history, but errors in judgment do happen, and, well, it's hard to see how a mutual balls-up is cause for desysopping.

The broader issue seems to be that Fae feels persecuted by the WR crowd, who now seem to have migrated to Wikipediocracy (although Wikipediocracy does seem like a significant step up from WR). I can sympathise, as I've had Paul Wehage aka one half of User:Musikfabrik (see Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Jean-Thierry Boisseau) aka the fieryangel aka oscarlechien opening threads in these various places criticizing my every decision for 4 years, and calling me some rather nasty names in the bargain, almost regardless of whether what I was doing had any merit or not. It doesn't feel terribly pleasant, particularly when your fellow Wikipedians are apt to show a distinct lack of DefendEachOther. As a result, Fae seems to react extremely badly, causing large dramaboard threads where Fae and various Wikipediocracy posters (many of whom edit here in all good faith) snipe at each other. This is not helped by the ongoing controversy over the toxic culture and content at Commons, with which Fae seems to have become associated.

Now, it is my impression that although in quite a few of these dramaboard threads Fae is behaving quite badly, and too often resorts to a kind of catty tone that's both provoking, patronising, and not conducive to a collegial atmosphere, this does not really rise to the level of a desysopping, and I think that if ArbCom takes this case all they will do is succeed in giving Fae a slap on the wrists, which hardly seems worth the time and drama of a full case. IMHO the thing to do is pass a couple of open motions telling Fae to calm the bleep down and react much more coolly, and in a manner more befitting a sysop, to questions about his actions, even if he feels the questioners may not be acting in the best of good faith.

My own advice to Fae is this: 50 percent of what people say about you at WR et al is simply driven by hurt vanity: 40 percent is based on misinformation provided by those of the hurt vanity, and 10 percent (at best) might be fair criticism of some validity. If you can't filter out the white noise it's better not to read the threads at all, and just keep working quietly here without starting vast drama-filled BADSITES AN threads in which you then go make yourself look awful. Moreschi (talk) 00:10, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

@Cla68: I'd forgotten that, but yes, that is true and does put this up a level in the seriousness stakes. Too many people have been called homophobes for no particularly good reason. That said I do not think the scope of this case should be widened beyond Fae and his conduct.

@Casliber and Courcelles; there are of course a lot of problems with doing this by motion, but I can easily foresee a case becoming extremely ugly if the evidence and workshop are not strictly policed. My feeling is that this only 60 percent about Fae and is perhaps 30 percent BADSITES case No. 1,989,472.5 and 10 percent Enwiki vs Commons, Case No.1 <?>. Historically arbcom has not done well with cases that purport to be about one individual's conduct but are actually to do with - at least in part - sitewide cultural issues that the community itself is split on (i.e a number of the various Giano cases). I guess you probably do have to take this case, on reflection, as if not it will be back here in a couple of months, but I would give the clerks licence to kill on evidence/workshop stuff that goes offtopic (i.e doesn't really relate to Fae). Otherwise this could be quite teh dramafest. Moreschi (talk) 10:02, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Relaying a message from Fae

--Guerillero | My Talk 00:16, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Request from Cla68

If this case is accepted, could the scope please be set to include editors who made ad hominem and other personal attacks during the Fae RfC and in other forums in support of Fae? Some of the behavior from involved editors has really crossed the line, and I think should be examined. Cla68 (talk) 01:56, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment on Moreschi's comment: I think much of Moreschi's analysis is true and on target, with one key omission, and that is the ad hominem accusations or insinuations of homophobia that Fae and some of his supporters have lobbed at people who disagree with them. Accusing or insinuating that others are offering criticism or disagreement with you because they are motivated by some kind of prejudice or hatred (unless it can be backed-up with clear evidence) is unnacceptable. I'm sure that most of us have observed this occur in certain topic areas and would, perhaps, agree that there are few behaviors by Misplaced Pages participants that are more unhelpful, divisive, hurtful, dishonest and contrary to a spirit of congenial cooperation, collaboration, and compromise. Cla68 (talk) 04:16, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by MZMcBride

I'll repeat what I wrote in the discussion following my attempted redirect of User:Ash to User:Fæ:

I don't necessarily have an issue with clean starts. There are certainly legitimate reasons one might need a clean start. But if it's truly a clean start and you've left your old account for being an asshat, it shouldn't be possible for others to figure out who your old account was or want to associate you with it. If it is possible or they do, it's almost certain you're still being an asshat. And that indicates that you need to either leave or start again. If you choose the latter, you have to change your behavior in the next reincarnation so that nobody is able to figure out who your former nasty self was and it's truly a clean start.

As true then as now. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:41, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Peter Cohen

I've noticed drama in a few places on wiki which might be more suited for the evidence page. However, the events on Jimbo's talk page leading up to this post should be worth delving into. I don't always agree with Jimbo but the opinion he expresses there tallies with the one I have independently formed of Fae's actions.--Peter cohen (talk) 04:17, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Roger, I think your question to Carbuncle is rather unfair. Fae has a history, particularly under his old ids, of extensively editing sex-related articles and uploaded some sex-related pictures to Commons and to Misplaced Pages articles. He has also voted on sex-related content on Commons using his Fae id. Fae has also made a number of comments of his own e.g. about his civil partnership but is also liable to complain about comments being made on Wiki by others. (See his explosion at Mbisanz that led to the previous case request.) Do you really think that Carbuncle can provide a full reply explaining his/her reasons to such a general question as you asked without exposing his/herself to an attack by Fae for violating his privacy on WP? It would be much better to get Fae to make specific allegations to which DC can then respond. We have already seen in this case request how such allegations (e.g. claiming that Mbisanz met with Eric and that DC has speculated about Fae's HIV-status) end up being untrue.--Peter cohen (talk) 15:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by SB_Johnny

While Fae has always been quite civil and collegial when addressing me individually, he does seem to have a bad habit of assuming bad faith on the part of people who associate with people whom he feels have done him wrong (his initial response to this case is a very good and current example).

A minor thing that bothers me about Fae is his insistence that we as a community must forget what he did as "Ash", because I don't see anything wrong with owning up to personal growth, and simply acknowledging that your opinions have "evolved". The major thing that bothers me about Fae is that he's very quick to accuse people who disagree with him of having a homophobic agenda. The other major thing that bothers me about him is that he doesn't intervene when his "defenders" are clearly being unfair and inappropriate.

This all comes down to a question of "conduct becoming of an administrator"... admins should (at least in my idealistic view) try to keep drama to a minimum, because drama distracts from the mission (writing and improving an encyclopedia). Admins should not create dramas that distracts from the mission, full stop.

There is also a simmering and seething undercurrent involved here, because apparently more than a few people believe that there was something deceptive about Fae's RfA. That issue really needs to be addressed here, because (if I understand correctly) ArbCom was perceived to have endorsed the view that "what happened before was no biggie", but it's pretty clear now that the "no biggie" would have been a serious issue for some of the RfA voters. I realize that the comment in question was just a committee member voicing his own opinion of the matter, but perhaps in the future the members of the committee might resolve to discuss such issues privately, and not comment as individuals on such matters unless there is some consensus on the matter (or offer a "minority opinion" if a committee member feels strongly that they need to speak against the majority). I understand the committee's reluctance to expand the case, but I really do think that it should expand it in this direction.

As far as results go, I would like to urge the committee to force Fae to do a "redo" of his RfA, in the interests of putting that part of the issue behind us. FWIW, I would vote in his favor, because I absolutely trust him not to use the buttons inappropriately. Let's have closure and move on, please. --SB_Johnny | ✌ 20:36, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

After reading some of the comments below (including Fae's, but not just his), I hope that a "principle" of this case will make clear that "Assuming Good Faith" implies not attributing malicious intent to those who provide criticism. This should especially apply to accusing people of bigotry, because that's an extremely offensive thing to be accused of if you don't happen to be a bigot. --SB_Johnny | ✌ 22:10, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Anthonyhcole

Please only accept this case if you, the committee, are prepared to fiercely curate the case pages for relevance and civility. I see several issues:

1. Fæ dropped his earlier account name and claimed to be leaving the project in the middle of an RfC/U that looked likely to sanction him in the area of BLPs. ArbCom agreed to a clean start. In his subsequent RfA Fæ said he'd changed his name after an RfC/U and that he'd never been blocked or sanctioned under the earlier name. This implied, to the !voters at his RfA, that an RfC/U had found nothing sanctionable. There is some likelihood that he would not have passed RfA if !voters had known that he left in the middle of an RfC/U that was calling for sanctions.

   You may want to address Fæ's fitness to edit BLPs, which is still an open question.

   Perhaps ArbCom should have insisted he return and complete the RfC/U before agreeing to a clean start.

   The obvious right thing to do, given his (possibly inadvertent) misleading evidence at his RfA, would be for Fæ to ask the community to reconfirm his adminship. It is argued that the value he adds to the project as an admin is too great to jeopardise with a reconfirmation RfA. You'll have to decide this.

2. It is claimed that Fæ and his supporters have accused critics of homophobia. This is a serious charge and you should call for (a) evidence of accusations of homophobia, as well as (b) evidence supporting such accusations. If Misplaced Pages users can reliably be associated with homophobic comments those users should be site banned. If unfounded attributions of homophobia have been made, the record should be put straight, and those making such accusations should be sanctioned.

Anthonyhcole (talk) 02:29, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Lankiveil

I am of the school of thought that while obviously the diffs cited in this case are less than ideal, that Fae has done nothing wrong or actionable, and is being hounded far more than other editors who do exactly the same thing. With that said, I urge the ArbCom to take this case and resolve it quickly, which will hopefully lance the drama boil and clear the air sufficiently that everyone can get back to writing articles and creating content, rather than stirring up drama and being internet detectives. Lankiveil 11:24, 25 May 2012 (UTC).

Comment by Wnt

This proceeding is the outcome of a widespread political conflict in Misplaced Pages over whether "offensive" and especially sexual topics should be covered, which governs everything from what the Ash RfC was about to why many of these accusers have been calling for the destruction of Wikimedia Commons on Jimbo Wales' home page. Cla68 and Anthonyhcole have called for a narrow focus on Fae and those making accusations of homophobia. But a proper arbitration should examine both sides with equal scrutiny, including WP:Harassment#Off-wiki harassment itself, WP:OUTING of Fae based on WHOIS sleuthing, WP:CANVASSING of editors on off-wiki sites, even the violation of WP:Child protection by false allegations that Ash kept an image of a naked child on his page, a situation curiously occurring by the alteration of a Commons file a few days after that account ceased editing. I do not want it to be that Misplaced Pages editors' first consideration, even above Misplaced Pages policy, should be to think of how it will look for their name to be plastered all over the Internet next to a selection of anything embarrassing that can be extracted from their entire editing history by a few dozen editors dedicated to suppressing coverage of certain topics - nonetheless that is absolutely so, and it will continue to be the case unless ArbCom makes some wise and seemingly unexpected choices as this proceeding progresses. Wnt (talk) 15:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Response to Delicious Carbuncle

It may be that you are right - that you were not suggesting to discriminate against Fae for homosexuality or (assumed) risk of HIV, rather for a perceived interest in bondage. Does that make a difference? And I don't think that is how your original comment on WR would have been interpreted by a reader. In any case, you accused an editor of "sex in a public place" based entirely on a PG-rated photo showing one person in a closed room - because it was convenient to you to say that he put himself at "legal risk" to explain away your own comment - then played the victim of personal attacks because people interpreted your comment about how "risky behavior" makes someone unfit to hold Wikimedia office as being anti-gay! Wnt (talk) 16:26, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by ReverendWayne

To me the important question is this: can an administrator ignore dispute resolution processes, or otherwise fail to answer community concerns, and still keep the bit? I think the answer ought to be no. Fæ offered no substantive response to the (admittedly messy) RFC. On his talk page, I raised a particular concern to give him an opportunity to address it outside the context of the RFC, but he chose not to reply. Admins must be accountable; that's policy. This is sufficient grounds for a desysop. ReverendWayne (talk) 20:58, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

Inserting for reference my comment at the RFC/U:

The issues regarding the prior account, the RFC/U closing, and the new account then applying at RfA are real and substantial. Those indicating a concern have evinced no anti-gay, homophobic or other concerns here at all. This is not a "deletionist" vs. "inclusionist" debate at all, it is a discussion about whether Misplaced Pages procedures have been fully and properly complied with. Nor is this a venue to discuss abrogating WP:BLP or any other fundamental policy of Misplaced Pages. Collect (talk) 19:33, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

And my summary of the entire RFC/U at which I regard as accurate in all respects. Collect (talk) 14:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Rich Farmbrough

Should the committee decide to hear this case it is important that they remember the basic principles pertaining to the case which I have already spoken to them about.

Moreover, while action on Misplaced Pages is important, should the scope of the case tend far enough to include all the matters raised by the person bringing the case, then the action of other editors to act as a concert party, contrary to WP:CANVASS and WP:MEATPUPPET should be considered as necessary, just as it was in the Eastern Europe email list case.

Arbitrators should also take note that there has been no attempt at 3rd opinion, mediation or other DR per se. Rich Farmbrough, 22:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC).

Statement by Varnent

Having reviewed the above comments, and actually waiting for Fae to respond, my hope is that if Arbcom takes this, it's only to put an end to the harassment of Fae once and for all. Coming into this just recently as an observer, and not being caught up in all the emotion of the buildup, much of the stated history here (especially off-wiki - I know that is outside of "scope" - but hard not to take it into consideration here) comes off as either blatant homophobia or sexphobia - neither of which has any place in an encyclopedic setting or wiki community. The ongoing rants about changing identities seem both silly and bring up arguments already addressed repeatedly in the past and with other examples. The policies on enWP users ability to do this seem pretty clear and this does not strike me as a violation - even considering the timing of nominations, etc. The attacks on Fæ outside of enWP and in real life seem to be obvious examples of crossing the line from concerned Wikimedian to obsessed bully. If enWP truly wants to be a safe space for LGBT editors and for folks looking to be free of relentless bullies that only stop (maybe?) when you have been thrown out of a community they are eager to sabotage. As I've said before, I will concede that like most people involved in this incident, Fæ could benefit from taking a longer pause before replying to wikidramas and focusing on areas of greater need - like chapter development and Wikimedia outreach. However, as I've also said, I'm empathetic to the reality that it's hard to resist conversations that you're baited into entering and mentioned or attacked by name. Especially when it's so relentless, on and off wiki, and discriminatory in nature. While I do hope some users involved in this incident are reprimanded - it is not Fæ. If Arbcom does see fit to take some action against or send a statement to Fæ regarding this - I will be very disappointed if an even stronger action is not taken against the cyberbullies involved. --Varnent (talk) 09:22, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Delicious carbuncle

In his statement, Fæ writes in part "speculation about my sex life and HIV status was posted by DC on ANI". I have never speculated about Fæ's HIV status on ANI, on Misplaced Pages Review, in private emails, or anywhere else. I have not speculated about his HIV status anywhere, publicly or privately, nor would I. This is a gross personal attack and should be treated as such. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 12:45, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Michaeldsuarez

Although we're not lawyers, it'll be difficult to come to a ruling about off-site activities without first determining whether Fæ qualifies as a public figure. https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation#7. Fæ's userpage, talk page, and activity are all accessible to the public. Fæ is currently a member of Wikimedia UK's Board of Directors. Fæ has served as Wikimedia UK's interim Chairperson. Fæ has spoken to both the UK Parliament and to the media: , . Fæ speaks about his "private" life in detail on Misplaced Pages. Fæ has uploaded semi-nude images of himself onto Commons. Fæ voluntarily placed himself in the public eye, and due to his position and influence, he should be subject to public scrutiny.

I hope that ArbCom can not only distinguish the difference between criticism and harassment but the difference between ridicule and harassment as well. Ridicule isn't the same as harassment.

Disclosure: I haven't ever commented or mocked Fæ's sexuality on ED, WR, or on Wikipediocracy. I've also created Fæ's ED article, but it doesn't mock Fæ's sexuality. I originally conceived the article as a wall (similar to ED's "Offended" article) of images that people regret uploading under a free (often irrevocable) license and try to delete: http://encyclopediadramatica.se/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=move&page=Embarrassing_images_you_uploaded_under_a_free_license. I originally conceived it as a page to teach people why they shouldn't license images of themselves under a free license. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 15:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

• Recuse - Tiptoety 00:39, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
• I will be mostly inactive starting 1 June - 28 July --Guerillero | My Talk 01:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
• Note: The clerks have been advised to hold back on opening a case until 2359 UTC on 28 May 2012, should the usual net-4 acceptance level be reached more than 24 hours before that time, to permit Fae to respond, and arbitrators holding their acceptance/decline vote to have the opportunity to read and consider his statement. Those commenting on this request may wish to bear this in mind. Risker (talk) 02:07, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
• Recuse, I have previously been vocal in my support for Fae, and will most likely continue to do so. That obviously precludes me from any involvement as a clerk in this case. Lankiveil 11:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC).