This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Guy Macon (talk | contribs) at 01:43, 10 July 2012 (Uncivil behavior: This is now at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Nenpog.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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Active discussions
Fairlyoddparents1234 v. DreamMcQueen: Edit warring
- Fairlyoddparents1234 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- DreamMcQueen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- List of CBS television affiliates (table) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- List of ABC television affiliates (table) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Hello there. I am currently involved in a dispute with User:DreamMcQueen. I have added a link to CBS Television Stations to List of CBS television affiliates (table) after where it says "This list does not include independent stations or stations affiliated with The CW". I am not sure why, but he decided to remove it, citing redundancy as an explanation. What makes me concerned is the fact that he has not yet removed such links from List of NBC television affiliates (table) (for Telemundo O&Os) and List of Fox television affiliates (table) (for MyNetworkTV O&Os), all three which I have added. To make matters worse, he sometimes deliberately leaves the edit summary field blank. I have attempted to revert my edits until I decided to give up and report this, on account of the policy WP:3RR. Also, for List of ABC television affiliates (table), he has been repeatedly removing the designated market area from the O&O list, even though I still kept it in alphabetical order (see edit history). He reverts my edit. I revert back again. I recently had the article put on a one-week edit lock. What concerns me is that there would be consensus at the TV station WikiProject before the DMA's could be removed from article lists. There WAS a discussion, but it was NOT supposed to affect affiliate lists of the "Big Six". Apparently, DreamMcQueen is not part of the project. In addition, the NBC, FOX and CBS (oh wait, he stripped the DMAs off the CBS table too) have not been affected yet. This has made me think that he is effectively attempting to claim article ownership; clearly a violation of "Da Rules". In addition, I am starting to be concerned about his edits in general, as it seems he is abusing the vandalism marker. In my personal opinion, I think he should begin to familiarize himself with the policies and guidelines here. If he does not comply, I think it's safe to declare him a vandal. Further problems with this issue and it's headed for the RFC noticeboard. Thank you. Fairly OddParents Freak (Fairlyoddparents1234) 12:45, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
- It is best that you refrain from constantly applying policies and guidelines towards this user's post as it may be interpreted as a personal attack where the user will just ignore it and take it as an insult. Also your tone of language at the user's talk page such as saying "Piss me off via edit war or any other method and I WILL IMMEDIATELY REPORT YOU TO AN ADMINISTRATOR AT ALL MEANS!!!!!!! You've been warned. And don't you even dare respond to this at my talk page. Don't you dare get me hot or else you will find yourself hanged above the flames of WP Admin Hell!" will definitely not help get your own point across this user at all so I'd advise that you review the Misplaced Pages:Civility so that in the future conflicts like this won't happen anymore. Remember that the more civil you post the easier it will be for administrators and other editors to help you both resolve your differences and carry a proper discussion.119.224.27.62 (talk) 12:09, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
- Well I have already tried to be civil to him, but he keeps making the problem worse. Besides, I have tried WP:DRN, but he wouldn't get in the discussion. Fairly OddParents Freak (Fairlyoddparents1234) 18:00, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
- Hi again. Just remember to be civil at all times. If the user insults you next time, just ignore the insulting parts of the comment even if its hard not to and focus on what is the user's point. If that doesn't work then put then you can finally take the problem to either WP:DRN or WP:ANI where the administrators can take action(such as what had happened here). The easier it is to identify who is more civil the faster it will be for other's to help you out. Anyways it seems like the problem has died down now and an admin had already helped you so that's great progress. Well done. :-) 119.224.27.62 (talk) 06:24, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- Well I have already tried to be civil to him, but he keeps making the problem worse. Besides, I have tried WP:DRN, but he wouldn't get in the discussion. Fairly OddParents Freak (Fairlyoddparents1234) 18:00, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Uncivil behavior
No incivility on the part of Guy. The section is degenerating into a content discussion, WQA isn't here to discuss content issues. IRWolfie- (talk) |
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Guy Macon is following me around in talk pages, where I participate in on topic discussions, and follow my comments with off topic negative comments related to me and to other discussions:
Regards. --Nenpog (talk) 07:15, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Since it doesn't seem to be staying closed I'll respond instead. I am not involved in this dispute and don't know all of the background. What I do know is what I observed at COIN and on IRC: Nenpog has been consistently pushing his views on the wiki on multiple noticeboards/locations etc, including IRC. On #wikipedia-en IRC for example, related to this dispute, he joined the channel to argue that being a doctor in a hospital that has a CT scanner is a conflict of interest. He also tried to argue beyond what was reasonable about basing WP:EXCEPTIONAL claims off an unreliable source as well. The level of reliable sources required for this exceptional claim just don't exist. He appears unable to accept any of the responses or points made against his point and continues on, a case of WP:IDHT. It's also clear the content is just not going to go into the article and the consensus is against it, he should drop the WP:STICK and walk away. Guy is fully correct to keep tabs on what Nenpog is doing, because so far it has been consistently disruptive to the point of exacerbation. IRWolfie- (talk) 13:21, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
I would like to point out that before Nenpog accused me of uncivil behavior he accused me (without evidence) of having an undisclosed conflict of interest. I would have ignored that -- if you volunteer at WP:DRN you will get a few false accusations from disputants -- but he also accused another editor who, like me, chooses to reveal his true name and who is an Emergency Room Physician in Canada. That is totally acceptable behavior. This started as a content dispute on Talk:X-ray computed tomography where Nenpog faced a lack of consensus (every other editor opposed the changes he wished to make.) My only involvement is as a dispute resolution volunteer who tried to help resolve the conflict when it reached WP:DRN.
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This is now at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Nenpog. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:43, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Wikiquette violation in summary
- Lihaas (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Demiurge1000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- SudoGhost (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
I created the Syria Files article and Lihaas added quickly some tags: notability, original research. I added more references easily, it is an event covered in mainstream media (hundreds of news in Google News). Soon, I was reverted again by Lihaas and he wrote this comment in my talkpage. After other users removed the tags he put in Syria Files, I noticed him the changes. He has named my comment as "nonsense" and deleted it. I don't delete his comments using that summaries, so I prefer he doesn't do it. Regards. emijrp (talk) 17:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- i was perfectly polite in asking him, and he responds aggressively and starts to revert things on my talk page (that was undone by others). . Im entitled to withdraw stuff from my talk page, as is anyone.
- "You should not delete the comments of other editors" shows a misunderstanding of WP policies. His inclusion of the other editors who reverted him on my talk page is more deceptive as theyre not involved in anything. Only points to WP:BOOMERANG
- At any rate, tag removals require discussion per BRD as i politely requested. This wasnt done. And a discussion is ongoing on that page. Lihaas (talk) 18:20, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- I'm sure Lihaas could improve his way of dealing with other editors, but in this case, "nonsense" was a description of Lihaas' opinion of the edit, not of the editor. It's not unduly rude. Further, the comment that Lihaas put on Emijrp's talk page was completely unproblematic - it was a request to discuss and not edit war. (Although I have no idea what the smiley at the end of it was trying to imply). From the diffs given above, Lihaas is only at 1RR on the article page itself. Emijrp is at 2RR on Lihaas' talk page - Emijrp seems to have misunderstood what it says on WP:TPO. Lihaas was being slightly aggressive on the article and dismissive of Emijrp's disagreement, but the problems are not as described in the complaint. Both editors should go away and discuss it politely on the article talk page. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- Smiley to make thing slighthearted in case it was construed as aggressive.
- But i did starta talk page discussion at said page. Though i handled well not perfect, but wellLihaas (talk) 19:06, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- I'm sure Lihaas could improve his way of dealing with other editors, but in this case, "nonsense" was a description of Lihaas' opinion of the edit, not of the editor. It's not unduly rude. Further, the comment that Lihaas put on Emijrp's talk page was completely unproblematic - it was a request to discuss and not edit war. (Although I have no idea what the smiley at the end of it was trying to imply). From the diffs given above, Lihaas is only at 1RR on the article page itself. Emijrp is at 2RR on Lihaas' talk page - Emijrp seems to have misunderstood what it says on WP:TPO. Lihaas was being slightly aggressive on the article and dismissive of Emijrp's disagreement, but the problems are not as described in the complaint. Both editors should go away and discuss it politely on the article talk page. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- It is best to avoid being so harsh when you are deleting talk page sections. You can simply remove them with "archiving" for example. Alternatively you can just leave them, or archive in bulk. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- On the contrary, deleting a talk page section with the edit summary "archiving" might be considered misleading, if one did not actually intend to archive the material. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:56, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- Good point, it can be just deleted without a message. IRWolfie- (talk) 22:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- Okey , will doLihaas (talk) 04:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- Good point, it can be just deleted without a message. IRWolfie- (talk) 22:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
- Wasnt with that reason and that wasnt the issue. All respondents here siaid that it wasnt a fault as the OP suggested.Lihaas (talk) 17:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- Not resolved, as Lihaas has already gone back to using exactly the same type of edit summary on the same page; --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:25, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- Please see the the edit history for the edit summary that preceded mine. There are quite clarly 2 sides to a coin if you see that other summary. At any rate, weve already been discussing resolution and solved it ourselves. Quick and easy
- Please dohn't stalk my edits.Lihaas (talk) 18:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
Constantly being following around Misplaced Pages with Uncivil intents about my actions.
Users involved
- Bleubeatle (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Wesley Mouse (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- BabbaQ (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- CT Cooper (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Articles/pages/diffs involved
- Ell & Nikki
- Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ell & Nikki
- Talk:Ell & Nikki
- Misplaced Pages:Editor_assistance/Requests#About_to_attempt_a_merger_proposal._Need_to_clarify_if_it_is_necessary.3F
- User_talk:Brandmeister#Non-admin_closure_of_Ell_.26_Nikki_AfD_article_-_No_proper_consensus
- User_talk:Wesley_Mouse/Archive_4#Here.27s_one_for_you_to_ponder_over
- User_talk:Wesley_Mouse/Archive_4#Before_you_respond_to_what_I_wrote_on_WikiProject_Eurovision_Page
- User_talk:Wesley_Mouse
Description
(Please note: The story is actually long. I admit that I should've gone here earlier but I'm just going to get to the main points. The users involved(including myself) will post the other parts, diffs and other articles involved later when we all have time.)
This began when I nominated the Ell & Nikki article for deletion by mistake because the AfD didn't become the discussion I planned. I gave several points but got very little replies or input from users other than being told about WP:Notability guidelines. They didn't really comment much about the I point made but instead focused on posting about why the article shouldn't be deleted. After the discussion was closed prematurely due to a snowball keep I was thinking of asking the non-admin that closed it prematurely to re-open it with the hopes of getting other Wikiproject users involved but it was rejected. I figured that if I just ask a question regarding my point rather than re-opening the AfD I would get the answer that I am looking for. However I started to panic when these two users (BabbaQ and CT Cooper) followed me here. I later discovered that BabbaQ has been notifying Wesley Mouse about my activities and questioning my intents. This is when it became a big problem. I got extremely worried about this so I left a note on this page. But their replies gave me the feeling that they were ganging up on me. I made replies that could've have violated several policies and guidelines. I think this was because I've never been in a position before where I've been completely misunderstood and this really hurt me and made me feel frustrated. In particular, Wesley Mouse mentions that I was being negative in the AfD. Something that I completely disagreed with and it really hurt me when that user told me this. I later decided to drop the argument because it was just going nowhere. This is what I just think.
After some users suggested that I should do a merger here and I took this suggestion to the talk page of the article in question more arguments erupted. It ended when Wesley Mouse gave me a kindly written letter on my talk page asking me to put my merger proposal on hold for now. I respected his letter so I agreed. I decided to move on, editing other articles, and going through several guidelines and policies here in Misplaced Pages so that I could handle this problem more easily in the future. During the course of that time I still had doubts and I asked for Editor's assistance if whether or not it is safe to propose a mergerhere Just yesterday, they(BabbaQ, Wesley Mouse and CT Cooper) managed to find me there. I went through their talk pages and once again suspicions about my intents have been aroused. I'm not sure how they managed to find the page but my only guess is that wthey've got my talk page on their watch list and recently a user left a comment which may have notified them of my recent activities and went through my contributions to check on what I am up to. Then notified each other of my page.
Certain points that I am failing to understand with these users?
- Implies that the article meets WP:BIO1E and WP:BLP1E therefore my suggestion is unnecessary.
- Believes that a clear consensus had already been reached on the AfD to Keep the article. Therefore, doing a merger proposal would be going against this consensus and could be a violation of policies and guidelines.
Why do I disagree with these points?
- I disagree because according to Misplaced Pages:Notability: "A topic is presumed to merit an article if it meets the general notability guideline...This is not a guarantee that a topic will necessarily be handled as a separate, stand-alone page. Editors may use their discretion to merge or group two or more related topics into a single article."
- I believe that consensus was only to Keep the article including its information in Misplaced Pages. That doesn't mean that its content or information is protected from being merged to other articles. I do respect the consensus and I am not trying to wipe out Ell & Nikki's evidence/existence in this site but according to this page here:"Articles that are short and unlikely to be expanded could be merged into larger articles or lists."
Main point
- I believe that Ell & Nikki's article is unlikely to be expanded in the future because it only covers their participation and involvements together at the Eurovision Song Contest 2011 and Eurovision Song Contest 2012. Therefore it is best to merge it into the "Running Scared". Besides we already have separate articles about each of the duos Nigar Jamal and Eldar Gasimov.
- After both events ended, Nigar Jamal and Eldar Gasimov have not released anymore material together as a group. They have just released their solo materials separately and done separate endeavors. They may have been involved in some more group activities together but these are not really outside their Eurovision Song Contest involvements. This gave me some doubts that Ell & Nikki was just formed for the purpose of participating in the contest and performing/presenting the song. They were merely an official group but just a collaboration between two singers(eg. Kanye West & Jay-Z, Brandy & Monica), and Rock 'n' Roll Kids).
I am feeling really scared right now. I feel like my experience here in Misplaced Pages will never be the same again after my encounter with these users because I am constantly being followed and my contributions are being taken out of context. I am also worried that they will report me and get my account banned in Misplaced Pages which I do not wish to happen. Can someone please help us get into an understanding? Thanks Bleubeatle (talk) 23:04, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- There is quite a lot here to read for a speedy response to be made, and the time here in the UK is just gone midnight. I find the entire thing to be perplexed and being taken way out of context than what was actually said. Nevertheless, I shall be courteous and delay my want of sleep so that I can respond to this accordingly. Wesley☀Mouse 23:11, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- A lot of what is cited above is a month old and I thought that some kind of mutual agreement had been reached to move on. We have long past the point here in which it is reasonable to request that you drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. I understand that you felt others were "ganging up on" you, but you choose to make some serious accusations about other users, and a defensive response was justified. As for this "following around" issue, I think we've had this conservation. If a person starts a discussion about other users or issues to which they are involved, you should expect them to find out and comment on what you have said about them. If this was users following you round commenting on multiple unrelated topics, I would see the point, but as it stands I don't. There is no right under policy for users to demand that others don't find out or don't partake in a discussions, to which they are a party, on a public noticeboard or project talk page - this is an open and collaborative project, and a person's contributions list is public for reason. Bleubeatle's other complaint here seems to that of disagreement in a content dispute, which is fine, but this page is not for resolving content disputes. CT Cooper · talk 23:59, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
- CT, since you are listed as one of the involved users, could you be more specific on what you feel "some kind of mutual agreement" means? It sounds rather vague to me. If you could be specific, we might be able to see if this could be agreed on by all parties here. -- Avanu (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- Right, I have read this entirely, and have pre-written an in-depth response covering every little grain of sand detail thoroughly. There is quite a lot though, so would you like me to post it in its entirety, or in segments? I'm happy either way. Wesley☀Mouse 00:18, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- The time now is 2:45am, so I'm off to bed as I'm absolutely knackered and I have a busy schedule in the morning. If there are any questions/comments that require my attention, then please could you leave a notice on my talk page, so that I can read them when I get a spare moment tomorrow. In the meantime, if you wish to read my pre-written response (which is very lengthy), then it can be accessed here. G'night all - Wesley☀Mouse 01:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- I can only say that the title of this discussion is the basis of the problem. Bleubeatle throws accusations around and also stated that its not OK for us to respond to posts which are directed at us which is very odd. My main concern has been that Bleubeatle seems unwilling/unable to let the matter go for the moment or at best discussing it rationally. When given a response which isn't in line with Bleubealtes own opinions he/she either simply ignores and asks the same question again or acts like he/she doesnt understand the reply. On the question of merging I am under the impression that a majority of the responses Bleubeatle has recieved has been in favour of Keeping all three article such as the AfD on the matter and also most responses on talk pages. And still the user keeps bringing the matter up and that is where it gets trickier. Bleubeatle has the right to start new threads etc, but now it seems like the user is not following several users good faith suggestion that the user waits too ask about the Ell & Nikki possible merger for awhile and let the matter cool down. I find that a bit offensive that the user doesnt wait a while for it all to cool down, is it the users intention to stir up emotions or? I dont know. The title of this section is offensive in itself and shows that the user is unwilling to compromise on the matter. My other opinions can be found on the several sections Bleubeatle has started all over the Misplaced Pages about the Ell & Nikki merger. And I am not willing to respondany further and waste my precious time on this matter which has been kept alive by Bleaubeatle for over a month now. This is my only comment on this section. --BabbaQ (talk) 10:21, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
- The time now is 2:45am, so I'm off to bed as I'm absolutely knackered and I have a busy schedule in the morning. If there are any questions/comments that require my attention, then please could you leave a notice on my talk page, so that I can read them when I get a spare moment tomorrow. In the meantime, if you wish to read my pre-written response (which is very lengthy), then it can be accessed here. G'night all - Wesley☀Mouse 01:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
OK, I would like to know how we can be accused of having "uncivil intents", when the accuser kept on telling people who disagreed with their opinions, to "leave conversations" such as 1, 2, and 3, are just a few examples of such remarks. The accuser also admitted to being uncivil himself towards BabbaQ, which can be seen in this diff, and in the same comment he took other's comments entirely out of context. In this diff Bleubeatle made false accusations about myself, in saying I had informed Bleubeatle that BabbaQ wanted to "fight". I had never said such remarks, and fail to comprehend how Bleubeatle came to the conclusion that I had made such a statement. But that very same diff, also shows one of the numerous occasions that the user has redacted their own comments shortly after someone had responded to his original comments, thus making it look that the responders where making no sense in their remarks. What would possess a user to do that, unless there were hidden intentions? Nevertheless, everyone (as far as I am aware) assumed good faith in Bleu's unknown reasons for redactions.
I find the fact that some people are being accused of "stalking", when this has never been the case. As I am the main editor of the Project newsletter, I have every member on my watchlist, so that I can make sure the EdwardsBot had delivered the newsletter to everyone without any technical glitches. Is this the wrong thing to do? Also, Bleubeatle keeps on stating that everyone questioned his intentions to have an article deleted, and that he never had any such inclinations to have an article deleted to begin with. If that be the case, then why would someone with no intent to have anything deleted, proceed with a nomination of deletion? Surely that is evidential enough to show that every action and comment being posted in regards to the deletion was premeditated with intent.
Then we come to the points that Bleu has raised in bullet-points above. Every single one of those points where originally asked in the AfD, and everyone who voted to keep, explained to Bleu that he had misunderstood the guidance on WP:BIO1E, informing him that those guidelines where for events and not living persons. The same people also pointed out that WP:BLP1E would be the correct guidance to look into. Providing the correct page link was an act of goodwill, and in the assumption that Bleu was unaware of that page. However, following the snowball closure at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ell & Nikki, Bluebeatle went on what can only be described as a canvassing exercise posting the same questions and directly/inadvertently naming users on talk pages Misplaced Pages talk:Notability (music), Talk:Ell & Nikki, Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Musicians, Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Eurovision, Misplaced Pages talk:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, and more recently Misplaced Pages:Editor assistance/Requests; also accusing an editor of barnstar misuse in regards to the AfD debate. Blatantly going around various pages casting false accusations about other editors is by far more uncivil, and from reading the original comment before the user redacted their own words, again, then it is no wonder that people would start to have suspicions about why someone who is generally quiet and reserved, would start to behave in such a condescending manner. Anyhow, I have clearly written a lengthy response here as it is, so I shall pause for now, and am willing to answer any further questions in due course. Wesley☀Mouse
I am also somewhat frustrated that this has been dug-up yet again, since I have a lot better things to do with my time. I am however happy to answer questions, and what I meant by "some kind of mutual agreement" was closing comments made on the discussion at WT:EURO, in which Bleubeatle stated amidst some problematic comments, that he wouldn't reply any more, in which I interpreted to mean that he was going to drop the issue, for which I was happy to do. Bleubeatle however instead starting more threads on the subject, sometimes in inappropriate places such as WT:ATA, and usually containing at least some kind of questionable statement about what other editors had done or said.
What Bleubeatle needs to understand is that when you propose something and consensus doesn't go your way, you let the issue die and move on, even if you are not personally satisfied with the reasoning - you don't forum shop by starting lots more threads until you get the answer you want. Starting one or at most two more threads on a subject might be defensible depending on the circumstances, but the level to which Bleubeatle took it was way past what was acceptable.
There is clearly a lot of emotion in the above comments by Bleubeatle, which I see as unjustified for the situation he actually faced - for instance nobody has called for him to be banned before now. As I've said before, his earlier comments stating "I don't care how you feel about what I wrote." and "I am not going to bother reading what you've written below. No matter how disheartening that it will make me feel" do come back to haunt him here. Bleubeatle needs to learn that editing a collaborative project such as this does involve receiving criticism and dealing with disagreement, and he needs to learn to handle such events appropriately, and not respond with extreme emotion or unjustified allegations about "questioning my intent" or the like, which can and did in this case, make things worse. Finally, and most importantly of all, Bleubeatle needs to realize that his actions have consequences. It has already clear that by digging this up again, he has caused a great deal of stress to one party involved, and therefore convinced me that he has crossed the line from behaving inappropriately to causing significant disruption to this project, and that such behaviour, even if done in good faith, is not going to be put-up with indefinitely. I have repeatedly tried to explain to Bleubeatle where he is going wrong, but such efforts have failed so far. CT Cooper · talk 22:23, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Before I reply to any details regarding the posts above me here I just want to start off my saying that the user I found the most difficult to communicate with was BabbaQ. I first encountered this user when I first proposed the article for deletion. The user objected and told me about it on my talk page. Later on after the AfD ended and while I was asking for the non-admin user who closed it for re-opening, the user began following on this pagepage. I have also noticed that for most of the time, the user has always been constantly the other two users(Wesley Mouse and CT Cooper) of my actions on each other's talk pages as seen on some of these diffs: . From my observations, this may explain why the other two users have followed me around Misplaced Pages ever since. During the discussion that I opened on this page, the user became disinterested and rude when after many agreed that the article should be merged instead. A user noticed this behavior. I also noticed it on the article's talk page when I tried to converge with the user here. The user even tells me that "its a fight you are unlikely to win unfortunately" and "are you sure you are not looking for proof?. Im out of this discussion. Its over and done.". The user clearly opposes anything being done on the article whether it is deleting or merging and doesn't want anymore or anyone to discuss about it in the future. That kind of behavior should stop because other users may find this rude and will not lead to a proper discussion. From my observation, the user seems to be trying to gather support to prevent the inevitable from happening and that is by arousing suspicions about my contributions on these two users'(Wesley Mouse and CT Cooper) talk pages. The user needs to realize that is not a battleground and that winning is not everything. Also I believe that the user has rejected all signs of neutrality and peace as shown on these diffs:, , , and .Bleubeatle (talk) 07:39, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
I will probably give another statement like this paragraph for the other two users later on if it is needed. Just reading through some of the paragraphs above, I have to tell you all that I already understand most the things that you've said. What needs to change is your approach and your posts towards users like myself. You may think that you could be doing something right but sometimes it can hurt people as well. No one in Misplaced Pages enjoys being bossed around. I'm pretty sure neither of you do. Sometimes you need to take a break and have a good look at your own posts. You should be more careful with what you write and understand that not everyone communicates the same way you do. Besides this is the internet. Bleubeatle (talk) 07:39, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
- First of all, BabbaQ has never been rude in any of his comments. He, like any other editor on Misplaced Pages, is entitled to put across his opinion in regards to article related matters, whether it be creations, change in policies, deletions etc, it is what is known as building a consensus, gathering data etc. If any editor, and not just BabbaQ, wishes to oppose something then they are perfectly within their rights to tell someone why they oppose it and provide reasons for that. If everyone was to just agree to everything, then we might as well not hold any form of democratic discussions, and scrap any such discussion boards all together.
- Secondly, what you need to realise here is that if you go to other talk pages and start slagging off people without letting them know, then yes, it would only be a matter of time until those who you slagged off would find out about it. And they would be well within their rights to comment on what is being said about them. You cannot and should not, just put across your side of events and thing that the entire picture is complete. To put it hypothetically, would you go to a court of law and only allow one side to be told and then make a judgement without hearing what the other side has to say? No, you wouldn't - so why should that be any different in here, unless you don't want others to know the real truth.
- Thirdly, in relation to redacting of comments. Not only do you start to redact your own original posts after someone has already responded to them, in order to make it look like no sense is being made. But after reviewing this redaction of other's comments is clear evidence of disruptive behaviour and goes against WP:TALK. What gives you the right to hide someone else's comments without their consent? From everything that is clearly visible and the way hat you speak to people, that you are guilty of your own accusations.
- And finally, for the record, the comment CT Cooper posted above which reads "It has already clear that by digging this up again, he has caused a great deal of stress to one party involved, and therefore convinced me that he has crossed the line from behaving inappropriately to causing significant disruption to this project", the person being refereed to in that statement is myself. As it is known by some editors on here, my mother passed away a few weeks ago, and on 2 July my uncle also passed away. I am going through enough pressure and stress at home dealing with that, and also the preparations for my volunteering at London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games. By dragging up something that should have been dead and buried from the moment the AfD closed, has made me physically sick. I couldn't get a wink of sleep the minute this discussion was opened, when I finally managed to sleep, it was only for 4 hours. And then after that I ended up vomiting as a result of the stress that you are putting me through. Several uninvolved editors, and not just the ones listed above, have repeatedly told you to just let it go, drop the stick, walk away from it, get on with more constructive editing. You yourself have even demanded people should let things go. How can you expect people to let thing go, if you go on this crusade of dragging up shit (excuse the language) knowing full well what the consequences are, and how much distress you know it will bring to people. For someone to go about such nature is most likely doing it in a vindictive and malevolent manner. I still have my in-depth detailed response, which answers every single one of the sentences of your re-edited opening post above. And I say re-edited, because the edit history shows that you changed parts of your original report, which is becoming a bit of a normal pattern with you lately. Wesley☀Mouse 15:12, 9 July 2012 (UTC)