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Block review community consensus
I was blocked for this and see no reason to continue with a cloud hanging over my head or confusion over the issue. An apparent third party appeal to the admin here failed, so it's clear I should not continue if that is what everyone wants. If people want to add their names to this table, to show if this block is justified or not, that might change my mind, otherwise, good luck to the lot of you, and happy editing. Penyulap ☏ 12:53, 4 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Unjustified	Thom2002 (talk) 22:47, 9 July 2012 (UTC) You will find that most admins are trigger happy, but most can count to three. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 21:03, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Justified	Mythpage88 (talk) 19:51, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Unclear	Don't understand the reason for the block.93.96.148.42 (talk) 08:44, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Error: Image is invalid or non-existent.

Thanks

I thank you.

		The Special Barnstar
		If one was being attacked by a gang of vicious barbarians, I'd be very happy to have you on my side.andreasegde (talk) 18:09, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

You are welcome. I am pleased that your troubles have had a silver lining. If I made a new friend every time I was attacked by a flock of seagulls I'd be quite the celebrity. Penyulap ☏ 02:20, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Beatles mediation

Hi. I saw you struck your name from the agreement to mediation — are you withdrawing your participation? Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 21:38, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

We have all lost the battle. If the objective was to bring peace and harmony between the editors, then having one of them voted out for 12 months means the war has already been lost. Come back in 12 months and I'll be happy to work towards a solution with everyone. Penyulap ☏ 02:24, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Are you referring to the editing restrictions on andreasegde? Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 04:29, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I am, you can hardly resolve your differences when you turn your back upon one member of the group who is actually willing and able to reach a compromise. Penyulap ☏ 04:34, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Well, I suppose you know that andreasegde's restrictions specifically allow participation in mediation — does this affect your decision? Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 05:50, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

teaching someone how to drive a car and saying they can't have a license even if they pass the test ? doesn't seem a meaningful approach to the problem to me. Penyulap ☏ 05:54, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

If andreasegde participates, will you consider this adequate representation of your side in the mediation? Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 06:16, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

"If andreasegde participates" is half the question, where he is allowed to participate, or where he is welcome to participate, is the other half. I'll let him have input on it at this point. I would follow his lead as to whether there is any point whatsoever in participating until he is able to edit the topic himself. Myself, I see no point in it, as I have explained and that is where I lean heavily. I think only he could persuade me otherwise, and I don't think there is any need for it honestly. Back in 12 months when there is a genuine effort to get everyone editing together. Penyulap ☏ 06:29, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I would like you in on the mediation page, Penyulap. Let's see how it all finally ends. Even if it's a bad film, one should always wait until the credits roll.--andreasegde (talk) 08:49, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

As you please, I am more the kind who will sit through rubbish for a bit, but when it's really bad, yes I do walk out. The people at the box office will never be able to give the 90 minutes of your life back, so salvage what you can, where you can. Feel free to unstrike me. Penyulap ☏ 09:03, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Encore

Hi Penyulap, I wonder if you might be able to help me. My recurring problem has just recurred, again. What is the best way to deal with it? Thanks and regards, Eddaido (talk) 10:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Y opened discussion at Talk:Frank Costin Penyulap ☏ 10:16, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Eddaido (talk) 10:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

And thank you again, you certainly are a friend, many thanks indeed, sincerely, Eddaido (talk) 05:51, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Evilness

Any chance you could do me a "The Evil Organization has been expecting you" or "Enter my evil volcano" in the style of File:Jaguar on fire.gif?♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:50, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

You bet ! Now that is a challenge, to improve your page. :) I shall do my best, starting tomorrow I expect. Penyulap ☏ 17:19, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

So let's talk colours, speed, and such Darrrling.... Penyulap ☏ 16:30, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Hehe thanks, But to you think you could modify it to just the flames and all black text, looks more evil that way! And change it to "Enter my evil volcano lair"♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:40, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

So it's black text as in volcano, yes ? and flame speed ? Penyulap ☏ 17:49, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Yes, try it, get rid of the white! Oooh actually you could do a Mmmmwwwooooahahaaaa!!!! in black, that would be evil coming from the flames LOL!!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:58, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

In smaller black text, same size, above below, leave it to me, sign it at the end, questions questions, don't worry I have all the answers. Penyulap ☏ 19:50, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Like this ?

I will need a bit of time to get to the underlying flames, for Jaguar's it didn't matter because the windowed letters and the seams lined up perfectly. I have to patch these ones together properly or make some of my own flames (also good because I can change license on what I make from them), patching animations together is a bit labour intensive. But it'll be done soon enough. Penyulap ☏ 19:29, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Splendid! Thankyou!♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:35, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I forgot the words while I was making it and ended up adding 'welcome' by mistake Sorry. But that makes us even for putting my unfinished work on display, Oh really !!!!

I can fix the wording, but I left out the Mwahahahaha sort of thing, I was thinking to make that into a component and it could animate something of a cartoonish style, the MWwoooooh turns up and the HA HA HA's follow in an animated sequence ? like, dislike ? And attribution is this ok with you ? Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)

That's better, but the "attribution" at the bottom completely spoils it. You are attributed on the image page, can't see your reasoning behind that one! It looks less evil!♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:18, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

That's cool, I usually put it into my best works, like with the grumpy award, I'll take it out again, and fix the mistakes on the text, unless you like the text otherwise ? also do you want you talking at all, and can I add it subtly, like on this one here, it has attribution, but you can't see it when looking at it, unless you are looking for it. I guess it's easier to show you and you can see what i mean in the next draft.

it's in here, if you can find it.

In the meantime, I am down for the count (sleep again because of bad hormone levels) I am actually meant to see a Doctor today, but I cannot stay awake to do so (catch 22 eh?) but on the bright side, I wake again in 2 to 4 hours (not as much fun as it sounds) Penyulap ☏ 23:32, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)

..and back up again, with a mild fever oh joy. health problems always cascade. Penyulap ☏ 02:01, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

You're not alone, Penyulap. I too have problems sleeping. I never go to bed till one in the morning and don't go to sleep till god knows when! :(. Did you make that trains userbox? It's great. Never seen anything like it! ☠ Jaguar ☠ 10:29, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

No, that is me at the best of times, up till all hours, it's not like that, it's something else, the thyroid regulates everything, it doesn't do insulin directly i don't know, but after you eat, there is some interaction or something and you can get very tired, like a puppet that has strings cut, my head almost hits the keyboard in a swoon, I sleep 4 hours or so, hormones go up and i awaken, after a few hours, say 4 or 5, it's dipped so far that I return to sleep, and the cycle continues so i have no idea where my body is supposed to be at. But actually I seem to be holding it together reasonably well. I made some other things you might like, some of them are here User:Penyulap/Anime. I made some train sets, I have them somewhere on my computer and could upload them, but the effect it brings to the userpage doesn't vary very much so I haven't bothered to upload them. PenGreen is slowly going viral across the project, I'm quite happy about that little one, it spreads my all positive where possible approach to editing. (my contribs are as green as I can manage) it's silly I know, but it beats harassing the weak and disabled that's for sure. The way your body is working is normal, you're not meant to wake up until close to noon, and sleep about 10 hours a day which is more than most. It's just that everyone older than you doesn't realise it's normal and thinks it's something you do on purpose. If you have trouble going to sleep quickly I can help train you to speed the process. There are more things I made, you can hovermouse over the anim at the top and then click the right place, or goto page history and follow the bot's edit summary to the archive for more. Penyulap ☏ 12:09, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, I animated the trains from still pictures, and drew the smoke. Penyulap ☏ 12:12, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Penyulap. I used to get migraines and of course being a teenager that is all part of growing up and it is natural. But I used to get them real bad, and in 2010 I had only two hours sleep every night for two weeks... it was hell! But now my sleeping pattern is a lot better, and now I can get to sleep... most of the time anyway! Your train animations are amazing. I've had a look at the history and it is fascinating! I never knew you could do that to userboxes... ☠ Jaguar ☠ 21:48, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

You can't really. Or at least, I had never seen anything like it done. I like to stretch out the limits within the boundaries to see what is possible, the 'bot operators here often give their bots a fictional form, which I like to participate in. Actually NASA does it as well with the robots on the international space station. I made a little video inside a userbox from one video and a selection of still images, It illustrates my bot's hamster's journey into space and disappearance. The Russian leaders chat with him and wish him luck and so on, and live coverage is provided by RTV (either Russia Today or Rat tv as you please) here it is. Enjoy.

I personally do not like userboxes, as it said in the beginning on my userpage and have always said. It actually says it inside a userbox which is a little ironic, or a lot ironic, or if you are looking at the future from the time I wrote it back then, and looking at the path of time which has flowed, now that I have no peer in the UBXes it would seem to have become monumentally ironic, wouldn't you think ? I tend to keep my userpage time continuum neutral where possible. Penyulap ☏ 03:10, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Since you ask

I mean, would you want ME to have a sysop bit right now ?

Yes, yes I would. :) Viriditas (talk) 10:53, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Penyulap ☏ 12:47, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Re: some light/med/heavy reading continued...

My mistake on the incorrect assumption; I am sorry.

Saying this cautiously, it seems there is a willingness to bring up the ISS ENG:VAR discussion again, provided we have some rules for the discussion. That is good news, right?

If it does happen, I would ask you to get in touch with all the other editors who have supported your views or participated in the ENG:VAR discussions in the past. The more participation we have, the better.

As a side note, have you considered getting an editor review recently? I think some positive commentary would not be a bad idea. --Wingtipvorte PTT ∅ 18:50, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't mind the idea of a review, but as I am re-inventing myself at the moment (altering persona to match people's growing awareness of what I am really doing and why) then there'd be pretty much a lot of 'this is how you were back then' countered by 'that was so like 5 minutes ago' I don't mind, but, well, who knows.

I'm cool with trying to find some of the old editors who had commented on the talkpage in the past, it would be awesome to resolve and put aside all the 3 year old ill-feelings so everyone can move on, that would be awesome. Penyulap ☏ 18:58, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Understood on the review. As a side comment, you may want to hold off your RfA until all this is solved. That is just my suggestion anyway.

Be as transparent as possible when getting the old editors. Any hint of canvassing and the discussion would go haywire.

As for the comment you left me on my talk. One of the things that has to happen for the discussion is accept that the article is in en-uk. One way or another, that is the status quo now. I do not claim there was consensus for it to be that way and that is why we're trying to bring it up again. But the discussion has to be to either change from British or leave as is. I would discourage "bringing outside help" for now, lets try to solve this withing the spaceflight project first. You make some interesting points that I had not considered, I hope you are wrong and this is all just a misunderstanding.

I have put together a draft of how I may bring up the discussion on the ISS talk page again. These were just some good ideas I put together, they are not necessarily how I want the discussion to go, so I appreciate if you gave me some feedback (here on your talk). --Wingtipvorte PTT ∅ 01:08, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Wanna be an admin?

Two questions I suppose.

Firstly: If you were given the chance to be an administrator, would you take it?

Secondly: If so, have you any objection if I nominate you at RfA? Egg Centric 20:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

well, I look at it this way, it's that much more amusing to knock the 'goliaths' flat on their asses when you're as tall as a garden gnome. After a while everyone either gets wise to it, or I get bored with it, so Meh. On the other hand my skills are better suited to Arbcom, but that is all like reading and too much work and not enough goofing off. Being an admin, what does that involve, not any actual work at all, plus having an entourage follow you everywhere whining and complaining about everything you do. Hey, come to think of it don't I do that already ?

Look I'll say yes on both counts so long as I'm officially doing it just to shit my critics to tears ok ? Penyulap ☏ 21:29, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

If nothing else, you're certainly livening up this report with a bit of refreshing color!  :) Zad68 17:56, 24 July 2012 (UTC)




I think this will make wikipedia history, I'm impressed already :) Penyulap ☏ 18:16, 24 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Don't say "With all due respect"

Hi, Penyulap. Did you notice this comment ? Please consider it. Bishonen | talk 22:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC).

Double negatives of statements of phrases that have double meanings under not every circumstance. I'll put it on my list of things to ponder ? Penyulap ☏ 22:50, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

oops sorry didn't notice the edit summary, I only looked at the edit. Please do as you wish, or just revert for now and I'll do something about it later. Penyulap ☏ 00:28, 24 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Re

RFA

Kudos for volunteering, but an RFA that has 4% support at this stage is not going to pass. Please withdraw. AGK 19:12, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

RE: Hi Merovingian

I appreciate the greeting. As for my editing patterns... they are singular, in a word. Cheers. --Merovingian (T, C, L) 19:30, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	For what might have been... Egg Centric 21:40, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

well I am thinking that to be fair to them I should try not to speak over the top of their heads and actually address their concerns. Sure there are the linguists and empaths who see through the simple screen as easily as you do, but to be proper I should address the majority rather than the minority, or actually address all of them which is easy enough to do, but not right now, I don't have energy due to low thyroid hormone levels and I don't have meds to keep me awake, so maybe later is better, probably after a smack from Auntie as well :)

Thank you for the Barnstar, and thank you for repeating for the third time that I should be an admin. I can still count editors you know ! :) I'm also awake enough not to namedrop either, given people want anyone at all to blame for their comments except themselves. I'll take a share, but they indeed are responsible for their inattention. Penyulap ☏ 22:21, 24 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I am speaking to people on wiki-en IRC at the moment. They say if you object to it closing then it can be re-opened. I do recommend this as it is surely worth a try. Egg Centric 23:43, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

If a passing stranger may make a suggestion, I don't think that reopening it is a good idea. From what I saw of your RfA, it failed pretty quickly and pretty unanimously (with only five supports and 24 opposes), and if you were to reopen it you'd probably see a repeat of this, or a very similar result. I recommend you take at least six months and wait for the impact of your SPI and block to wear off, maybe contribute to admin-related areas a little more, then go for the mop again. You may do as you wish, but I'd hate to see an editor like you fail RfA twice in less than a week. Kindest regards, The Utahraptor/_Contribs 02:11, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

The problem is not time, as much is an offence to reason, the problem is I slapped Emo trying to make him understand, so frustrated am I that they won't see. I agree with re-opening, but all of my statement would need to be removed, and I could place another. However it is clearer, but not entirely necessary, to tie up a few silly matters first. A few weeks is sufficient, it is important to place the RfA not because it needs the correct response, but because it needs the correct question. I have not presented the correct question. Penyulap ☏ 04:24, 25 Jul 2012 (UTC)

The problem is that you were involved in a very recent SPI case and a very recent block. Administrators are supposed to set an example for Misplaced Pages's newer editors, and RfA voters don't like seeing candidates who were recently (as in, within the last six months) involved in something controversial or blocked. You're free to do as you please, but I honestly don't think you're going to see much more support unless you wait a substantial amount of time before running again. Remember, it's not whether or not you think you're ready, but whether or not the community thinks you're ready. Regards, The Utahraptor/_Contribs 05:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Look, I agree with you 100% on these things, however they are trivial issues to address. As for 'don't think you're going to see much more support unless you wait a substantial amount of time before running again' I would agree 100%, we disagree only upon the definition of 'substantial'. The RfA closed in about 90 minutes was it ? I'd say hmm, (scratches chin) 4 hours at the most in a new RfA would show a greater percentage of support than the 1 positive, one Neutral Vs Negative and Joke votes. Naturally I would talk to my critics, rather than straight over the top of their heads. I've illustrated their complete inattention to meaning and the the weaknesses of the process. Actually it was probably a bad idea as it highlights how blatantly easy it is to become an admin as much as how badly the process needs an overhaul.

Of course, if the new one is left for more than a day or so, then you really do have a RfA on your hands. With an actual discussion on actual merit rather than the usual superficial congratulatory bullshit. Provoking a REAL discussion is your uncle Penyulap's favourite trick, ask the admins who responded when I walked into the administrator's noticeboard and said "I'm having a problem with my sockpuppet's userpage, what should I do ?" Like walking into the Police central headquarters wearing a mask, moneybags in hand and saying "Excuse me officers but my getaway car won't start, could you please help me ?" and they all rush straight out and have the bonnet open and are arguing about the best way to fix the car. The question is not 'is the getaway car a movie prop' or is the sockpuppet against any policy at all, the question is how long admins are going to edit war over my sockpuppets talkpage, or whether the officers will resort to shooting each other to resolve their dispute over jumper leads or push starting the getaway car. Till this day my sockpuppets userpage is locked to stop them and I'm not about to ask for it to be unlocked so they can start all over again. Penyulap ☏ 07:44, 25 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I don't think any of RfA's weaknesses factored into your failed RfA, Penyulap, and those who opposed were not inattentive. In this respect, I must echo Pesky's comment below mine: "it's vitally important that you stop thinking of them (and reacting to them) as being stupid, disruptive, deceitful, two-faced, and that stuff." Just because somebody does something that you don't agree with, it doesn't mean they were out of line; the only thing that can be determined is that you think they were out of line. And there's a difference between somebody being out of line and somebody thinking somebody's out of line.

As for the "substantial amount of time" concern, I must point out that I've been participating in RfAs for over two years now, and have seen that, in general, no matter how qualified a candidate is, if their most recent RfA was less than six months ago (or longer, depending on certain circumstances), their most recent RfA will fail. It's sort of an unspoken rule at RfA to wait at least six months to run again. It shows that you possess patience and that you're not power-hungry for the tools. Trust me, I speak from experience here; when I was a newer editor, I always aspired to be an administrator. Which, in its essence, isn't a bad thing, but I took it a little too far. I edited Misplaced Pages in a way that I thought would impress RfA voters, not necessarily in a way that completely helps Misplaced Pages. Now, I wasn't harming Misplaced Pages by any means; I was simply working with the sole objective to impress RfA voters rather than improve Misplaced Pages. After I failed my first RfA, I waited four months before running again. And I failed the second time. That's when I realized that one should edit Misplaced Pages to improve it, not to race to the admin job.

What I'm trying to say with that little personal story is that patience is a key quality that people look for in potential administrators, and the ability to address people's concerns (even if you don't agree with them) is also very important. The most important thing I hope you'll take from that story is that you shouldn't be so eager to be an administrator. It's not much different from being a regular editor, with the exception of the extra tools of course. Rather than focus on becoming an administrator, you should take some time to improve Misplaced Pages and to work on the problems brought up in your first RfA. And only run when you are absolutely sure you'll succeed. To get the opinion of an experienced editor in this field, I'd suggest going here next time you wish to run. I think you'd make a good administrator someday, but you must focus on addressing the concerns of those who opposed your RfA first, and you should take your time doing this. Regards, The Utahraptor/_Contribs 21:33, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree with a good deal of what you have said. I will take it on board and consider it. You make one glaring huge mistaken assumption however. I am more effective and enjoy NOT being an admin, and do my work a lot better. I choose above all to help with the non-sister wikipedias that have a chance to fix all the fundamental problems once and for all. Rendering all arguments moot at once by system wide changes is the miracle cure which is no miracle cure, it's fact. But I'm here anyway in 2012 because the new projects need more people to create a workload to keep me occupied. I'm not saying your painting me as an antisocial in a power hungry rush, but you are making mistaken assumptions about my clear intentions and desires. I don't care for the role, but I would genuinely work towards it if that is what my colleagues wish. They see the skills and want to utilise them to offset the other stuff. I'm just a bit piffed sometimes as I don't always get help with the problems I am having trouble coping with. People do not so much want to help me as they want to line up at the complaints department and critique me. I mean, I appreciate your insight and will take the statistical analysis as gospel, that IS useful, but I won't expect you to roll up your sleeves at all. Penyulap ☏ 05:25, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

If you're alright with not being an admin, why are you so eager to run again? I can see that I may have made a mistake in my judgment of you, and I apologize for that. But you shouldn't be following the will of your colleagues, you should be following your own will. See, one of my colleagues nominated me in my second RfA, and my first instincts did tell me to reject the request. But, like you, I also wanted to do as my colleagues wished, and I did think that I was ready, so I went for it, and failed. Since then, a few of my colleagues have expressed interest in nominating me for adminship, but as I personally don't care to run for the position, I gently turn them down. Again, I'm not going to stop you if you run for RfA in the near future; in fact, I may support you, and I wish you luck should you choose to run again. And I can understand being angry about not getting help with problems; I've come across that in my time here, as well. I may not be the most experienced person here, and I've got some things to deal with in real life, but I have some free time on my hands and I'll be around at least once a day for the next month or two, so if you need assistance with anything, you can look me up. The Utahraptor/_Contribs 14:11, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not 'eager' to run. I wasn't 'eager' in the first place. I recognise that I can or do a lot of that kind of stuff anyhow, I should probably stay out of ANI altogether, because I am well, I may say the crowds occasionally frustrate me because they don't read things first before commenting. Whatever. But my calls are always good. If I am making a call that is a slam dunk it's a slam dunk, if I'm making a call that is wrong, then it gets discussed to death and argued over by people saying I was right and then they go off arguing about policy and the subject is not on me anymore. Like when I shoved a sentence into blockpolicy, or redirected my sockpuppets userpage. Sometimes I scan ANI and I see things like this which absolutely outrage me, a saint of an editor and people are *****. I probably spend about as much time as bushranger did studying the matter, but my conclusion is precise. The only thing I don't like about that editor is his userpage. I can't pimp it :) Actually I mention a sockpuppet in that discussion, who says he's from India like Vivek Rai, but has never once spoke with anything but a British American accent. Which reminds me how much I love strange accents and they force me to ask everything about the person's background, I can judge how long someone has been living locally by how much of it is left, calculated against what lifestyle they have and what opportunities they have to talk to locals (factory workers take decades to lose an accent, but shopkeepers lose it faster, and schoolkids are the fastest of all.) There is everything to see in a persons text you see. Sometimes I can't answer specific questions and I know it, so I don't make any judgements, but other times it's such an outstanding clear sample I can bet the farm and walk away. I haven't made any mild or serious misjudgements yet, if you look at my art it's found homes on the best editors pages, often people who I've met because they were dragged to ANI. wow I talk a lot, where was I? Oh yes, no it was a long time ago that someone said I should run, and who it was that said it blew me away and left me lost for words because I knew long ago that he has such incredible insight, he is a major advisor and uses Jimbo's page as well as many forums, and said I would be good to detect gaming. Which is fair enough, but I didn't know what to do, I hadn't thought of it at all before. But I guess after so long it lingers in my mind where I could make a difference. I give it a go in a few places for people who were having trouble at ANI, like Eddadio and the others, and I know how easy it is for me to spot fakes, so I figure well, yeah, because I look at what other people are misinterpreting, and think well if I blocked Eddadio he may well thank me just the same if I'm wrong who knows when you can apologise like I can. If I choose unblocks as well as I choose to whom I give my art, then nobody would ever get past me. I could open up a second chance clinic like Medwed's, and confirm puppets are in fact puppets all day long with 'explain in 100 words why you should be unblocked' and people wouldn't have a snowflakes chance to get past it. unless they were genuine and then I could examine the case (I wrote the article as an alternative to arguing that policy needs clarification (or outright change), or the insanity of making it into an essay for everyone to ruin). I do figure that I could do a good job in some places now, so when two more people said they wanted me to run, I said well ok. Anyhow the time thing is a different matter, some people take a long time to change their thinking, but for others it's like scientific method where you leave out all the sentiment and emotion and that is how I am. So it's only a matter of finding fault with my logic and explaining it to me and I'm straight away, 'that's fair' or you are right, and so on. Doesn't take a certain amount of time for me to go from wrong to right, that is an offence to reason I do not understand, but maybe it applies to other people somehow, like me critics for some reason I cannot fathom. The secret to being an insufferable smart ass like me who is always right is to admit instantly, sincerely and comprehensively the moment you realise it. That way you can get straight back to work being right all the time. Any other strategy fails. Anyhow as for a RfA, obviously I wouldn't gloss it in anything if I did it again, and I'd clean up some of those people's concerns. Give some lovely examples people can enjoy and all that. Easy to engineer it for a proper and thoughtful result that everyone would enjoy (rather than just critics and yes/no men. Easy as. The only advantage I can see though is just that I wouldn't have to convince everyone that I was right before I do something, they could either accept it, or argue amongst themselves without me, or if I detect anything is amiss, go rapidly into stuff the shit back into the horse mode :) Like here. It's not a matter of time to admit mistakes, it only takes as much time as it takes to explain something. Use scientific thought to explain something, or use a commonsense approach, or ask a favour or whatever. I think the good thing about me is the same best thing about Craigboy. No matter what we disagree on we're always willing to talk something over if asked to. Even if he went 5RR with me everyday of the week against consensus I'd still kick anyone's ass who has a go at him, because he always will explain and discuss. There is nothing you can ask more of a person than that I think. (except that they shut up once in a while) Penyulap ☏ 16:35, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Hi Pen; I didn't even notice your RfA! I've been a bit busy. I have to say, though, that if I;d noticed it, I would have opposed you on a NOTNOW basis. Although your intellectual skills are awesome, you still need to spend probably several months brushing up on some of the interaction skills. You do tend to lose patience with people who genuinely can;t see / do the stuff you do, and it's vitally important that you stop thinking of them (and reacting to them) as being stupid, disruptive, deceitful, two-faced, and that stuff. (Remember this; that could be your biggest failing.) Bear in mind that it's not their fault that they can't see the detail that you see ... and that the vast majority of other people also can't see it. Also bear in mind that, on occasions, it is possible for you to make a mistake on the detail, by failing to see something that "the other type" can see ... and try to work very, very hard on learning to see what they can see. One thing which you could really do with, for your own sake as much as anything else, is a really hefty injection of tolerance and understanding of other people. This you can learn. (You're a smart student; you can learn almost anything if you really put your mind to it. But you'll have to put your mind to it; you need a burning desire to learn it. Think of it as a bit like learning a brand-new programming language.) Work, work, and work more. Maybe in six months or a year. But you'll never get it without addressing those issues, as those are the ones which turn people against you. Pesky (talk) 06:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorting things

Hi Penyulap. It seems our paths have been crossing a little bit recently and since that's likely to keep happening, I thought I'd try and clear the air. I'm happy to answer any questions on my behaviour, explain things in detail from my point of view, if you think it might help. Would you mind if I sent you an email on this matter - so you don't have lots of people interupting and telling you what you should think of me? (To those who did, I do appreciate your kind words)

If you'd like to copy in a person you trust on any replies, say our dear Auntie, or perhaps Dennis for example, I would have no objections to that. Or if you'd rather do things on wiki, here or at a quieter subpage, just let me know. Worm(talk) 09:44, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

You are in no way interested in improving yourself, your motivation stems solely from wanting to avoid my precision commentary of why you are acting in an incompetent manner. The only two options that I will give you is go work somewhere that I can't see you, or want to change your bad behaviour through a desire to improve yourself for the sake of self improvement alone. I'll tell you right now, you've fucked up so badly and consistently that you have a lot to learn, and with ZERO desire on your part to improve, I do not believe that you'll ever be sufficiently competent to earn my respect.

If you want my help to improve, the way to get it is not to come here because you're whining about Penyulap shoving your bad behaviour halfway up your ass like a flagpole for everyone to see, it's to ask me for my help because you honestly want assistance with your many problems, if you want to pretend that you are perfect, well, let's just all agree that you are perfect ok pumpkin ? and I'll be the one to show everyone just what kind of perfect thing you are. Penyulap ☏ 10:40, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I'm confident I know my motivation, and I would love to hear your precision commentary. It's most certainly not something I am trying to avoid. I believe in self-improvement and the value of feedback, along with such concepts of administrator accountability. So, if you would like to discuss my actions, I'm willing to participate - but I ask only one thing, you go into this with the possibility in your head that you might be wrong. I intend to do the same. Worm(talk) 11:01, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Reply

Please see my reply on my talk page. Feel free to delete this. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Y done. Sorry I can not normally bring myself to delete anything, call it religion, the church of new additions. Check how green and dark green my edits are :) you'll have to delete it yourself, and this too :)

Penyulap likes to turn Misplaced Pages Green.

Penyulap ☏ 23:04, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Deleted

Your comments have been deleted.--andreasegde (talk) 21:19, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

He's the epitome. The edit summary says "disruption". There are so few people who have any clue what that is anymore. It must be something to do with civility or something, instead of saying "I have run out of reason to refute your logic" or simply "I don't like you" today the politically correct word seems to be 'disruption' maybe that's why no admin is capable of spotting it anymore, they have no idea what the word means. Thanks for the laugh. Penyulap ☏ 21:43, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Hey, guys; I know it's going to be hard, but please give Gabe a little space! None of us is ever perfect in all ways, but it's so important in life always to remember that other people (as well as us) can just get over-upset, overwhelmed, have a bad day or a bad situation when we just don't show at our best, and we should always try and resist the temptation to "turn the other guy into an ogre". We all know just how wrong that feels when someone does it to us. Gabe is OK. I know you have had problems, but, really, he's OK. Dish out forgiveness and tolerance for sins and perceived sins; don't rub salt into wounds; don't keep on chewing at the old bones. Give out, and you may get back. Even if you never get it back, the better thing is always to give out. It's not exactly Karma, in any of its traditional senses. Excuse me if I'm apparently talking waffle or anything, but it's 04:16 here at the moment, and I've been awake since 02:something, and the only reason I'm at the computer is that my son is safely asleep, and if he gets a problem, the Iffy-cat will notice and call me. The Iffy-cat is a good watcher of at-risk people; if he sees a problem, he will come and get me to deal with it. Pets can be quite amazing.

It took me decades to lean to apply the same principles to dealing with humans as I use when dealing with animals. I only wish I'd learned earlier; things have been so much better since I twigged. Pesky (talk) 03:19, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Calm yourself Pesky, everything is ok you don't need to worry that everything will explode when you turn your back, well actually, umm, what is a better way to put penyulap into that sentence (scratches head), no seriously this matter is fine. There is a pleasing little read on this page here for an unsettled matter that needs to settle down before I return to help them work together again, no chasing going on. I don't actually ever think that long blocks or indef blocks ever work, and I don't believe they are even applicable in any circumstances, sure if enough people say so then it is to be respected and upheld, but it's better even for problem people to leave their talkpage open and clean up the mess in one place rather than chase them all over the project through SPI in the hope they will eventually learn enough to outsmart you. It's nuts. It's a lot easier to watch them in one spot, and it does work, and it works well for anyone who is in any way marginally social and forms social ties. Besides which, as you mention GabeMC, then the two of us are hardly the driving force behind the 'GabeMC is causing a slight disturbance' movement. Did Jimbo sign up to that movement, I'll go check in a minute, I know a lot of people came onboard to defend BWilkins, and that is a sight to see in itself, considering Jimbo chastised him recently. Penyulap ☏ 03:43, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

andreasegde, for the record, please do keep me informed of things like that which I am interested in or may be interested in. Penyulap ☏ 05:54, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

This might make you chuckle.--andreasegde (talk) 18:54, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, deary me, what can one say? This was from a neutral.--andreasegde (talk) 21:06, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

As requested above, you might also like this.--andreasegde (talk) 22:45, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

The biggest fools fight over the smallest things, I grow weary of trying to help them. Even the smartest people can barely see what it is I am doing, it's hard for them to follow. You need to use the hammer of Thor to help calm down the most outrageous cases. When I swing that sucker people can't see the objective, the method, the precision, the purpose, the result, they can only see one thing, a 5 stories tall hammer blotting out the sun as it swings overhear through the project and smacks the McIssue into something resembling silence. Yeah. I love my job. Completely thankless and universally misunderstood, what more could a humanitarian ask for. Give them the certain knowledge that a can of whoopass is waiting if they misbehave further and from someone they cannot possibly combat even with all their speeddial lackeys, hell I even gave both sides a persona to close ranks over. I was surprised and pleased with that part. Unite the warring factions in one more way. Meaningless in the end. I grow weary of it. My grasp of game theory is well known and I utilise it in everything I do, but in the end I think that even my friends do not want me to assist with the largest problems. The small evil within wants to go and give a wikilove gift of gasoline and matches and say due to popular demand you are free to burn the project to the ground, but I never submit to crossing my internal moral restraints. I don't use awards or art to tease anyone.

It is interesting to me that I can now see that the interpersonal problems other editors face have now become so complicated by 'the way we do things' that the old way of doing things is in itself used against the project by the new kind of threat. It is interesting that the clearest shortest route to a solution is resisted by the old guard. I don't mind of course, as the old guards are no fools and trust me enough to allow me to test out the new solutions. But I offer this critique to them, who else is stepping up to the plate to take on the largest problems ? Is it not true, that whatever the reasons are for not fixing the largest problems, however well intentioned your motivations are, the fundamental criticism is that you are letting the largest problems go unchecked. I'll also allow those problems to go unchecked now, I join you in your ranks of inaction, if there is another McIssue I won't swing the hammer of Thor in quite such an alarming manner, (and don't need to now the job is done anyhow). I have seen and learnt the dynamics of why you don't take up the challenge to address these issues. Why threads sprawl and drag at ANI for weeks. I can fix the problems as good as anyone and better than most, but I have little interest in it now. I'll help the Eddadios who come and ask me for my help and thank me for threatening to block him, I'll tell people like Acadēmica Orientālis to shut up because he talks to much and accept his thanks for my kind words, I'll step in to catch the rage and anger at the small quiet talkpages like Mother Teresa, and offer compassion which prevents that stranger from ever vandalising the project, who thanks me for my understanding and argues that I am not an idiot. I enjoy to do this because I genuinely care for all these people. It's enough for me, and you'll have to offer public requests and support if you want me to do more. Penyulap ☏ 04:11, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Garbage in, garbage out

I’d wave but my hands are tied. I have a large sample for screening. I can authenticate, if you can one time make some garbage and throw it into the trash can you saw before. Not sure if you still have the lid that fits that trash can. We're all in this together. Sigh. 173.30.26.12 (talk) 22:46, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

No need to authenticate I know straight off by the phrasing who it is, even with two lines of text and no tools. Just go to thewik.net it's a undead wiki you can use (I help with two dozen wikis inside wikipedia, and others outside wikipedia). However, you have to know that I won't be harming this site in any way, regardless of my ability to see what the graphs in the editor retention show, this is still not my house, and so I respect the house rules, the same way as if I came to your house, I would respect your rules. Besides which, I don't think you know that on Jimbos page, when someone started laying into BWilkins, someone I've never particularly liked at all, it forced me to close ranks. Because when push comes to shove, I close ranks and protect my colleagues against the outside threat. It's only after everything is back to normal I go back to flushing their head in the toilet (in a rhetorical way). Considering the threats lately to this place, I'm starting to get even more of the fighting to save it spirit. Weird.

meh I don't know if that site is dead or undead, wikialpha is good too, but let me know if you go there Mr/Mrs IP. Penyulap ☏ 23:13, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I am awake again. I never thought of that, I thought it was a lot worse actually. Penyulap ☏ 02:04, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Sorry no, I didn't mean any personal details, those are completely irrelevant, I apologise I didn't make that clear. What I meant to say before was the size of a text sample. for example an account with sufficient chatter in it for me to process to the enth degree. Normally it doesn't matter, a small sample of text is plenty, when the matter is one of trust, or it's higher-ups and their politics and so on, in cases like that I want to see enough text so that I am removing all reasonable doubt. I have no understanding of the SPI process, I can't even get the flaming thing to work because I can't work out how to interface with them or even who, and I can't dump everything from my head onto the page because it would be TLDR and I can't tell which parts the SPI clerk is after until he or she asks me what parts they would like to look at. Whatever I gave up on that bullshit. I can't interface with them on a meaningful level except to simply dump everything, diffs, personality profiles, graphology reports, editing objectives, motivation breakdown and changes of all of that across time and the reasons for the changes blah blah frikkety blah. I only bother to care to look into the mind of the person I'm talking to as far as needed to establish trust. OMG I have a CC and give it to my neighbour with my ID number, so they can goto the bank and get my money from the machine when I am unable to, and they swear that they will spend all of my money in town, they say they'll enjoy that and thanks very much, and I say yes go ahead please help yourself, have a great time. And then a few days later I manage to get to their house to visit, and they say oh, there is none of your money left, we bought a TV, and I look and see the TV is indeed new, not as big as most of those LCD's and I say hey, that's a beauty, it's lovely. I hope there was no change left over, I hope you spent the remainder while you were in there. He's like oh, I think I spent it all, let me check if there are some coins left, and he opens his wallet and gives me the money, and we joke some more, and I never bother for one minute, not even till this day, to check my bankbook at all. I don't care. Because I do not need to care, because I know. I like to live in a world where I can know something, and it is true. And I dare say, that it is a lovely place to live, it makes up for a great many other shortcomings indeed it truly does.

So SPI doesn't work for me at the moment because I cannot tell how much of which reports or information they want to see, and I'm damn well not going to paste up in public a how to guide for anyone, and I'm damn well not going to paste up a thesis for this editor who is just going on and on and on trying to subvert policy. He seems to think that because someone on his bank robbing team stole a bagful of status quo votes in front of a lot of other editors who were very upset over it, he can provide the illusion of support for the idea that they have now got so far away from the scene of the crime that they should get be allowed to get away with it. It's laughable. The law doesn't give up on anyone and neither do I. Other editors have not forgotten, they have said quietly and once their position on the matter, so as far as I am concerned, they can either get a major authority to sign off on the matter and say they can keep the stolen !votes, or they can approach the people who are upset at the theft and ask nicely if they may keep the !votes (you never know it could work, and if I was the one doing the asking you can bet it might) and if those people say, that's ok, you can have them, or if they voluntarily returned the cash and put it on the table, ok then, it would be forgive and forget time and lets not talk about it ever again. But using socks to ask me to sign off on a deal that says oh, keep the money it's ok even though people are upset over it is just ludicrous. Giving up is an absurdity. I don't understand what the statute of limitations in their jurisdiction is, but in mine, if people are still upset over the issue, then it is still an issue and I will not be silenced. Whatever, I lost my train of thought or bank robbers got it or something. Lols, bandits got it.

Arrr the bank robbers are trying to steal my train of thought, where is the law, help me help me :)

I'll look into the matter. I talk to much is the only thing I know for a certainty right now. Penyulap ☏ 03:16, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I think email is not enabled in your preferences. Penyulap ☏ 04:04, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

On species ...

This is kinda a response to your email, in a way, but also possibly applicable to a heap of situations, and may (possibly) benefit some of your stalkers and so son, so I'm bunging this here for you.(Besides which, I'm so used to using wiki-markup now that I find myself using it inappropriately in emails, and then have to go all through and correct it all ... heh!)

You know what I am; I'm a HFA, with a bit of autie-savantism, and I've been heavily involved with animal interactions, training, rehabbing, and all that stuff, for a very long time. A very long time indeed ... I can't remember a time when I actually got on better with people than with other species. Because, as a youngster, I infinitely preferred other species to Homo sapiens, and because I'm a learning-freak-type nerd, and can get wholly engrossed in subjects which appealed to me, I studied and studied and studied any other species that I wanted to be able to work with and communicate with. Books on behaviourism, field study, study of two-way communications, herd / pack / tribe structures, heirarchies, etiquette, body language, other communications, and so on. For quite a lot of species. Masses and masses (hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours) observing, internally noting, watching without interacting, just so I could learn how they ticked). At the beginning, I just wanted to know, obsessively. Because I cared about them. I never cared that much about Homo sapiens.

So ... Because I wanted to work with animals (specifically horses), I considered becoming an equine vet. But, by the time I was looking at what A-levels I'd need, I'd become self-aware enough to know that dealing with the animals would never be a problem for me ... but dealing with their owners could be a real challenge, and, to be a vet, you have to be good at dealing with people, no matter what they've done to their animals. So, instead, I decided to become a riding and horse-management instructor. That's actually much easier; all it needs is that you really know your subject and can put it across. Surprisingly, there's not much individual human interaction required!

But that also gave me the opportunity to begin to learn about humans; by teaching humans how to interact successfully with equines. To become an effective interpreter in that, I had to at least start to learn how humans worked, because it was never instinctive with me, it didn't come naturally, and I simply didn't know how to be a "normal" (neurotypical) human. (That might ring a lot of bells with autie-types: feeling that you "don't know how to be a human"; that you're failing somewhere.)

It wasn't until I'd become a lot more mature that I twigged to the fact that, if I'd been able to study any other species I wanted, in order to be able to communicate effectively with them and interact with them in a way which would enable them to accept me as being "one of them", that I realised that I could choose to do exactly the same thing with humans: change the way I looked at them, and think of them as being "just another species" whose methods could be studied and learned. Bingo! I wasn't born "knowing how to be a horse" (or a cat, or a dog, or a cow, or a goat, or an etc. etc. etc.), but I'd been able to learn how to bluff my way along in it sufficiently to be able to "fool" other species into accepting me as a social companion. Gods, it was hard, though! All those other species, I liked; and I'd had over two decades of really not liking Homo sapiens very much. H. sapiens, in my experience, were for the most part intolerant, unjust, deceptive, cruel, bullying, back-stabbing, spitefully-gossipy, character-assassinating, thoroughly nasty pieces of work, with some exceptions. And now I had to make an effort to "study" them!

It turned out to be worth it. But I always have to be aware that I'm never going to be totally and naturally fluent in "human", any more than I could be in horse. I do, however, have the advantage that humans can read and write. I don't have to be in the same room with them in order to be able to communicate. I can bluff my way along an awful lot better on-screen than I can in person; but it took years of study to find out what is "species-normal behaviour" for H.sapiens.

P.S. Side effect: on an intellectual, rather than an instinctive, level, I probably now know more about what constitutes "species-normal behaviour" for H. sapiens than most humans do! Heheheheheeeee! Try and learn from me; I can't ever be a "normal human", but I know an awful lot about them now! Pesky (talk) 03:55, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok, the thinking past each other thing here is understandable because you are, understandably busy. The people who you feel I am unable to get along with are inevitably people who have serious personal problems which are preventing that from happening, every bit as much but usually more than any lack of skill on my part. For every argument the slapjacks came up with in the RfA, there is almost in every case a serious personal problem that they are having, not all mind you, there were some correct things. In every case, in EVERY CASE, that is Pesky in every case that people are having trouble with me there are other editors who have the same problem and opinion I do about that person or problem. I should write the problems up one by one from the slapjacks and the ok ones, and address them one by one. Not for me, I don't care, and I do not care less about being an admin, because what on earth is the difference ? I do not want to kick ass, but I can kick ass better than any admin here, as I am today. What on earth do I need a tin star sheriffs badge for when I can help people as it is using respect integrity and compassion ? I have no inadequacy issues that I need to compensate for. People want me to take over the job that they would like me to do for them, and that is fine, I do not mind to help when asked. The issues that other people are having with policy, or consensus, or they are too lazy to read are the problems I can't fix by myself. I can't interface with SPI, I can't run an Arbcom case, I can fix a lot of things, but there are some matters that aren't going to settle themselves until people get off their ass and help just a little bit. If they want to assist there, then of course I will help and put through a brief proposal which is impossible to stop so that everyone may have their say. Plus, I might even be outrageous enough to let people know well in advance so that they can slam dunk the whingers and address the concerns that have been raised. I'm happy enough to help people, but if people are making big requests of me then it's more likely to work if they help me too. Penyulap ☏ 04:55, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Meh. At the moment, I have neither the temporal nor emotional resources to do so. I'm sorry if you feel that I have failed you. Pesky (talk) 06:43, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

You have not failed me, your just making small assumptions because you care about me and are worried about me. I like that in a critic. Penyulap ☏ 06:46, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

So you're assuming that I'm making assumptions, eh? Pesky (talk) 08:47, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

... and you might want to take note of this. Pesky (talk) 08:53, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I've already seen it, and this is the other half. Together they prove dishonesty. If it was not the intention, both halves should have been in user talk space. They were not. One half was at the SPI. The SPI is no place for partisan statements. This is yet another example of incompetence, and I'm not looking to find any. This came and presented it self in the middle of the SPI. As you can see in some section somewhere above, he has no desire to improve himself, but rather wants to parade this incompetence in front of me without me noticing. Maybe, just maybe, if he started trying to improve himself, rather than sweep everything under the carpet, he might get some help. I can't see that happening anytime soon. Penyulap ☏ 09:40, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

If I can respond to that, one statement does not contradict the other. Any abuse (which I will come to in a moment) was not linked to the multiple account issue, therefore he did not use the multiple accounts for abusive purposes. There was little or no overlap and he declared all accounts.

As to whether the user has harassed you, I can see that in a certain light the amount of attention the editor has paid you could be viewed as harassment, though the first time you appear to have brought it up is at the sock puppet investigation. I have many editors who spend that much time talking to me, yet I appreciate them and do not feel harassed by them. The line is in a different place for every editor and unless you make it clear that you are feeling harassed, then you cannot expect the editor to know that they have crossed that line. Once you made it clear the line had been crossed, I posted to the editors page and told him to back off. Two different issues, two different responses.

Now, I'd like to draw your attention to a similar situation, where you are on the other side of the coin. When you are told by an editor that they feel you are harassing them, you should take that into account. So, for example, when a person says they feel harassed by you, making light of the situation with a stick man pointing a gun at a victim is a VERY bad idea. You may not see that you are harassing the editor, but because they FEEL harassed, you should adjust your behaviour so that they should not feel that way. Worm(talk) 10:33, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Pen, if you spotted that between 19th July and the following day WTT had made the effort of analysing that editor's contributions in depth to see what had actually been done by them, made a reasonable judgment on it, and communicated with the editor, the very least you should have done was to say "Thank you" at some point within the past week. Particularly bearing in mind some of your comments on various people not putting in any effort, not researching, not reading, and all the rest. Maybe you should take a break from editing; or at least notice when other editors are getting very fed up with you. You also need to check whether or not any fresh edit is actually backed up by the original source before asking for a citation, and appreciate when other people are simply trying to improve the flow and readability of prose. As I said, I'm short on spare temporal and emotional resources, so I apologise if I'm sounding a bit more abrupt than you're used to. It doesn't detract from the meaning of what I'm saying. You need to study Homo sapiens. Pesky (talk) 10:50, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

How about this, Pesky you're not feeling well, considering the situation of your household, I'm not well considering I couldn't manage to stay awake today long enough to try for the second time to get to the doctor, because something about my thyroid? is not working. So how about worm packs up all this WP:ICANTHEARYOU when you say DESPISE. Stop his deliberately obtuse and stupid antics to provoke me, (actually is it deliberate or are you actually this dense? I DON'T CARE because you are not here to ask for help) asking 'I'm so stupid please explain how I got to be an admin and can lecture Mir on unwanted attention but I just can't help myself, I'm drawn back to everything Penyulap is doing because I am aware he DESPISES me and I just want to antagonise the situation because hey, he needs it, and I'll take advantage of Auntie Pesky as well while I'm at it, because with her son is in a life threatening situation, so she has nothing better to do than deal with Worms ICANTHEARYOU social problems.' Either send me your PAYPAL address and I'll send you some money for a therapist worm or take the hint and come back when Auntie Pesky says she is well enough to help you with your problems, keep at it, and I'll be asking for an interaction ban, on the grounds that YOU CANT HEAR ME and there is no hope for you ever growing out of this awkward stage your going through without community intervention. Ok pumpkin ? Penyulap ☏ 11:44, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Penyulap, per that comment, I will not post here past this message, which I make in an administrative capacity. I have received complaints of harassment by you, regarding GabeMc. Although I am not certain that there is harassment going on, I do see problematic behaviour such as this edit. When an editor suggests that they feel harassed, exacerbating the situation with insensitive posts like that and these two is likely to get you blocked. Please do try to stop interacting with GabeMc in the future, and get on doing more constructive stuff. Worm(talk) 13:04, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Penyulap, your comments to and about Worm here are also beyond what is acceptable. Please stop. I appreciate you're not well, but please stop. Pesky (talk) 13:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Please take a little wikibreak till you feel better, Penyulap. Bishonen | talk 14:04, 27 July 2012 (UTC).

Thank you for agreeing with me that you should indeed stop what you are doing worm. I do not mind people returning to my page, I do not want anyone to feel unwelcome under any circumstances, however I find it impolite that I've been forced to use such extreme language in order to get you to stop. Later, when someone else wants to help you listen to what I have already tried to explain maybe we can try again to assist you to do a better job, but give it a rest for now. Auntie Pesky is upset because I have used such language, in my own defence it has finally worked without having to resort to me asking at a drama board.

Pesky, per my last paragraph, and that he finally (oh lord the relief) has got the message the problem has vanished. When was the last time you saw me get upset or act in a selfish fashion Pesky ? there is always a good reason, and I'm sorry it has had to go this far to bring relief.

Bish, (sitting back from the keyboard) (took a good 5 minutes) well, I can't say that I feel that much better for the 5 minutes but it did help somewhat, but I do feel a lot better that I have one less problem for now, so that is a load off. Maybe I need one of those stress things, or if you my friends give me a way to let you know where the stress is coming from without people saying I'm making a list. Something that you need to know Bish, and Pesky, and my good stalkers, and you will not believe or understand and it's almost futile that I tell you, but maybe there are some that will understand, and so I mention so that they can better formulate help, time is different in my perception. It doesn't work for me the same way it works for you. you have a linear focus I find, but I do not. If you read my userpage, it is precisely the same no matter what point in time that you read it from. Go back in the history, go forward in time to you the reader years from now reading these words to you, and it is the same page and the same message. It only strengthens in a way, as the path flows. To 'give me a break' is to simply solve any one problem that other people are insisting I help with, or to help deal with a problem editor or editors that I am dealing with on behalf of others. Take worm off my shoulders and I can stand up straight again, don't you see ? I am here again.

GabeMC has been splashing gasoline from one end of the project to the other, I've been assisting him to tone it down, and it is working. The strategies that I have been using are unorthodox that is, well yeah what am I saying they look like I landed from another planet yes I admit that freely. I would be happy to discuss in private the strategies and co-ordinate with anyone in good standing if they so desire, but as to what I am doing, the answer is has way too much detail unless you want to listen for hours because the strategies have so many paths and markov chain calculations and I don't know, go read game theory in wikibooks for an hour and come back so there are some shortcuts to an explanation, The strategies I use are not the same as you guys use, they aren't like IF THEN GOTO by the old books, the people causing trouble at least provide me immense comic relief when they attempt to understand my strategies to stop them, because their reasoning is so immensely ludicrous. and no matter how often they fail in their attempts to go against policy they fall flat on their ass because none of my strategies for dealing with moving targets are based on fixed strategy. Templates, docs, wording of policy, all that stuff is static, but my solutions are turn based. Go read Game theory I'm serious, at least give it a scan through ok ? Please just read that article at least to get some idea ok ?

Argh. I can't tell you guys where I am at without giving away the game to the opposition. you need to hook up or something if you want to measure properly my real state. I have, and use so many personas to assist it's too hard for you to tell if you don't just ask. Asking me if I am ok would work perfectly, but I am afraid that possibly you may not listen to me. Does this sound like I am ok, or does it sound like I'm a little neurotic as an actor and I'm being hassled by a stand-over-man who cuts me off short ? You are looking at the artificial persona which is required to get the job done, it is supposed to deceive the people who need to be deceived in order to quiet them down. I tailor myself to the required mask to get the job done fastest. Although some are pretty much me, like on the mother Teresa talkpage, that's just me and just compassion from one human to another. I can give you plenty of examples of different masks, but it's all TLDR, but just ask. 60% of the work is already done on GabeMC, and seeing how nobody was stepping in to stop the rampage, mostly because they were in a state somewhere between horror and awe, well of course I helped out. You guys think I am doing this for what purpose ? because I want whatever case it is, and God's honest truth I don't actually know who is wanting which way around in the whole thing. I don't know if GabeMC wants Capitals or small letters, it's rather funny, ok it's a LOT funny but it's true and if you have a look I show no clue as to that part of the problem. I am only addressing the the friction, basically the entirely broken relations between so very many editors. but hey, please, seriously, you guys want that job, it's all yours, say the word and I'll leap at the chance to have nothing more to do with it, much to the horror and despair of the many editors of the article. Silencing me is easy, you just hand over control of that whole part of the project to that minority and I'm nice and quiet and sweet, just say the word guys. pity about the rest of the editors. yeah, your turn to pause for 5 minutes to think about that. Penyulap ☏ 15:51, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Let me add my voice to that of Worm and Bishonen and recommend that you take a little break from editing. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 17:57, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Pesky, the species I have been referencing in some conversations, but not others, is not the mutant/human thing, there is another one, it turned up in private conversation about new kinds of tactics used to disrupt the project by single editors with deft skills and an industrious nature. So the word species might mean the horses, the spectrum, or the tactics as the context dictates, I just thought you should know. Penyulap ☏ 05:06, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

If we can succeed in this worthy endeavor, the result will be a change in the course of our income, lifestyle and relationships, and in how we feel about the things of value as well as the times of challenge. If we can alter the way we perceive, judge and decide upon the main issues of life, then we can dramatically change our lives.

Yes, I understand about the subspecies you're referring to, and, like you, don't want to hand over a full instruction booklet to them. Which is why I've not talked about that particular "subspecies". All I'm saying is that in order to get gun teams and strategists and others on board to understand and deal with that subspecies, you need to study the H.sapiens species to a sufficient level to get those teams wanting to come on board. Teamwork requires ... well ... teamwork. Nobody can recruit a team without being able to communicate effectively with, and motivate, that team. Whether it's a husky-team, a mule-team, or a hominid-team. Pesky (talk) 07:04, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)(pre box reply)Fairly stated and agreed, I decided yesterday to do some major editing to myself as it's not worth the trouble to go after the new ones. If a horse got into my house and was smashing everything up it would be the natural tendency for the strongest people in the room to protect the children and deal with the problem. Seemed counter-intuitive to put my feet up and enjoy the spectacle like everyone else seems to be doing, whatever, now pass me some popcorn while he's stomping on the little guys. Penyulap ☏ 07:29, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

As far as connecting up, well ? wtf are you guys waiting for, if you want me to speak plainly in your own baudrate and protocol and nothing else then open a direct line. Otherwise just keep crosstalking responding to messages not meant for you. sheesh, and people think I'm dumb. Penyulap ☏ 07:34, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

So work on a concise summary of what you have. Then copyedit it and cut it down by a third. Then put the diffs in. Then see if you can cut it down to bullet-points and diffs only. And then email it to someone who knows the subject inside out and is likely to be able to see what you're seeing. Provided, of course, that you can get it into a format easy for anyone to understand. Be clear. Be precise. Be definite. But don't email it to me, OK? Part of getting something done is finding the right person, with the right motivation, and delegating. Pesky (talk) 14:39, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

No.

I have given it great consideration and this is not meant to work, and I will not assist to patch a broken process. This is not possible or logical. A one-way process is completely self-defeating. It is unacceptable. Penyulap ☏ 10:37, 29 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Whoops!

Accidental button push. I apologize. Hazardous Matt (talk) 23:15, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Hiya Penyulap!

I vandalised your userpage, sorry about that, please don't kill me. Arcandam (talk) 18:36, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

You'll get blocked for things like that. I got blocked for a space. Penyulap ☏ 19:03, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I won't, but others might. Did you really get blocked for hitting the spacebar once too much??? Arcandam (talk) 19:10, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. There is the exploit that many newbies do not know that adding a space to an article is a null edit used to make an edit summary. the same newbie who didn't read legit sock policy and started the sock investigation against me says on this talkpage (don't know if it is archived or not) that it is vandalism or words to that effect (name is binkster I think). You can follow the links on the prototype community review template at the top of the page I think, or through the RfA, look for the threats to vandalise, and the links I put into the quote, they lead to the april fools day explaination of how I used it as reverse psychology to stop a persistent vandal on the ISS article.

In the end, the (****) admin had no idea what was going on and just blocked me for nothing in particular, as you can see on the prototype. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)

You think you could be a sock? How would you like to have somebody with their hand up yer' umm... back? Space, between his final frontiers. Commas can do it too! To exemplify this I saw this demonstrated, once: "He helped his uncle jack off the the horse". To everybody's amazement, thinking they were compeletly familiar with the two possible meanings and knowing what to expect next, another passerby asked. "Why did they kill the horse?" 99.251.125.65 (talk) 00:04, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

I am too lazy to check all the details, sorry about that, but at least now I know what you are referring to. I think Binkster is Binksternet. Arcandam (talk) 00:30, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

99 I suggest you pack up your wicked wicked sense of humour and head over to Auntie Pesky'a page for a spanking I'm certain she'd enjoy it ;) Penyulap ☏ 02:44, 29 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Is that one meant to have only two dynamics normally, or three ? I read three straight off, but it looks like it's meant to be just two because of passerby. Penyulap ☏ 04:23, 29 Jul 2012 (UTC)

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