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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by MarkBernstein (talk | contribs) at 02:12, 20 August 2012 (→Andrew Sullivan at Oxford). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Kathryn Cramer

Your statement in your edit summary is misleading. It has not been discussed much at all, the talk page is barely used. The page violates wikipedia policies in its current state. Also, I just noticed in your talk page history you reverted User:Jossi's welcome message as vandalism. Please make yourself more familiar with our policies before you make such pronouncements. ⇒ SWATJester 01:25, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just noted your edits on the talk page. Please do not refer to others edits as "small minded" or them as "zealous" because they have opinions different than yours. That constitutes a personal attack, which is not allowed on Misplaced Pages. The edits to the article were done because the article reads as an advertisement, this is not acceptable. The sources were unreliable, and some of the information was unsourced. Our policy requires that all edits be sourced and to be sourced reliably. As for the Hugo Award, it was directly given to the magazine. An award for a magazine goes to the magazine, not the editor; misquoting it as such for the sake of advertisement is contrary to the encyclopedic nature of this project.⇒ SWATJester 01:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Please, before making these intemperate accuations (remember Assume Good Faith?") , read the extensive archive discusssions of the page in question. I notice, pertinently, that you ignore my analogy to Ross's New Yorker; Ross frequently receives accolades for his magazines accomplishments. It is a convention, however dubious, to attribute the success of the magazine to the ability of th editor.

My apologies on the good faith, but my points stand. Your analogy does not stand with other publications. Anthony Hopkins did not win "Best Picture". Silence of the lambs did. Clint Eastwood did not win "best picture". The Unforgiven did. Liam Neeson did not win "best picture". Schindler's list did. They may be the ones to physically accept the award, but they are not the person to whom it was awarded. I provided on the talk page extensive evidence that this is also the case with the Hugos. ⇒ SWATJester 03:33, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

As for the archives, they do not reflect specifically on this aspect of the discussion. And it is far from an extensive archive discussion, compared to most others on this page, for instance the archive at George W. Bush. ⇒ SWATJester 03:34, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Assumption of good faith in your case requires more suspension of disbelief than I can muster. Be my guest: vandalize wikipedia at your pleasure. Perhaps others will, once you have mercifully finished, repair the damage. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MarkBernstein (talk • contribs).

Well that was not called for. ⇒ SWATJester 03:48, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Dave Winer edit war

Hey Mark. Hang loose with Nick Irelan, because usually the admins catch up with this page pretty fast. I submitted it to User_talk:Ryulong and WP:RPP, and independently CSCWEM came around and undid one of Irelan's changes. I hope you don't risk going over 3RR yourself when one of these things happen, because a lot of people watch this page, and can help out when needed. We can discuss on Talk whether the remaining reference to cybersquatting has any reason to still be there. (I think not). EdJohnston 23:37, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Mark, several of the sites listed in the section that includes Weblogs.com were Userland sites and do not need to be in Winer's article. For example, even the site that the article links to says Editthispage.com was a Userland site. Please remove them if you guys want to force me out of editing the page. Link From Winer Article --Irelan12 (talk) 17:54, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

re: Electronic Literature

Hi Mark, Thanks so much - I am quite grateful for your insights and suggestions and willingness to help here. I do have some familiarity with this subject and would very much like to work with you to improve these pages.

Here is what I saw when I first looked at the pages. Both pages were badly in need of clean up: The original ELO page: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Electronic_Literature_Organization&oldid=182338791 The original Electronic Literature page: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Electronic_literature&oldid=209549580 Since both pages were enormously similar, I made the decision to merge. However, by all means, please do restore the ELO page here if you feel it should be a separate article, perhaps developing it a bit more from its original state: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Electronic_Literature_Organization&redirect=no In terms of authors - the pages in their original form each contained lists of hypertext authors that were nearly identical which is why I included them. In addition, the definition of electronic literature on the ELO website does include "hypertext fiction" - I also used current scholarship which discusses "hypertext fiction" as "first generation" electronic literature.

That being said, I appreciate all of your points and wonder if I might ask for your help in improving these articles which were originally badly in need of clean up and am open to any suggestions you might have. Thanks again for this very helpful post and I look forward to hearing from you, -Classicfilms (talk) 16:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The problem here is that ELO is a particular organization -- a faction, if you will. So it's not synonymous with "electronic literature", and has sometimes (in my view) been hostile to hypertext fiction. It's not uncommon for two or more organization (or political parties) to have similar over-arching goals but great differences; merging is good, but you don't really want to merge the Republicans and Democrats because both parties want a better US.

What these pages need most, IMHO, are links and citations to the critical literature -- to discussions of the titles in print and on the Web -- so that people will have better guidance in reading and discussing these works. MarkBernstein (talk) 17:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I restored the page Electronic Literature Organization and updated the introduction. Perhaps if you have some time, you could develop and improve the article a bit. I also think that your suggestion about links from the critical literature is quite fair. If you want to go ahead and make these edits, I'd be happy to look at them. Thanks again for your input and help in improving these articles and I look forward to reading your edits. -Classicfilms (talk) 18:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I should not edit ELO -- I'm COI there -- and as I run Eastgate, it might be better that other hands compose the revisions. I understand that this adds to the burden, but I see no way around it. MarkBernstein (talk)

Keeping your points in mind, I made some further edits to the articles and as far as I can see, they do adhere to Misplaced Pages:Five pillars - so I'm not sure I have anything else to add. I understand and appreciate the points about your own further involvement. Perhaps the next step would be for other people interested in electronic literature to edit and develop these pages, which I hope will happen over time. Thanks again for your suggestions and help with these pages. Regards -Classicfilms (talk) 19:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment in Jamesdennis's allegations

I have filed a Request for comment on Jamesdennis. You also tried to intervene with him in a productive and civil way. Could you please go to the page and either endorse or dispute my statements about it? Maybe I'm over-reacting, but giving him the last word, and such nasty last words, just doesn't seem right. betsythedevine (talk) 00:23, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Rahm Emanuel

I bow to the power of the Likudnik Praetorian Guard: consensus with a K. Whichever way you cut it, the C in this instance is for censorship. Wingspeed (talk) 20:34, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

P.S. What are you afraid of? Wingspeed (talk) 20:38, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

P.P.S. Mind you, The Tinderbox Way looks damned good. You've just shot up in my estimation:) Wingspeed (talk) 21:04, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

P.P.P.S. Blimey! You actually designed Tinderbox. I'm stunned and honoured to run into you. A pity you ever became a victim of the victims of anti-semitism. Wingspeed (talk) 21:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

P.P.P.P.S. Just bookmarked your blog. Excellent stuff! Wingspeed (talk) 21:16, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Joseph Lowery transcript

Sorry for changing the text of the transcript in contradiction to the source - I assure you it was an unintentional error that occured when I reverted to the wrong version. I've actually found a source for "get back" - please see Talk:Joseph Lowery. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Topynate (talk • contribs) 21:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Ted Nelson copyright problem

Here is the text from the source (which attributes some of the content to Scott Griffin's masters project on Internet Pioneers):

Nelson was raised by his grandparents in Greenwich Village, New York. His father is a movie director and his mother an actor. He had little contact with his father and almost none with his mother. He was lonely as a child and had problems caused by his Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD).

Nelson attended Swarthmore college where he earned a BA in philosophy. In 1960, he enrolled in graduate school at Harvard. During his first year he attempted a term project creating a writing system similar to a word processor, but that would allow different versions and documents to be linked together nonlinearly, by association. This was, in part, an attempt to keep track of his own sometimes frantic associations and daydreamings brought about by his ADD.

Nelson did not complete the project, but he continued to work on it after that semester and it became the overriding concern of his life. In 1965, he presented a paper at the Association for Computing Machineryin which he coined the term hypertext. Nelson's system was very similar to that envisioned by Vannevar Bush.

Here is the text you restored to the article:

Nelson was raised by his grandparents in Greenwich Village, New York. His father is a movie director and his mother an actor. He had little contact with his father and almost none with his mother. He was lonely as a child and had problems caused by his Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD).

Nelson attended Swarthmore college where he earned a BA in philosophy. In 1960, he enrolled in graduate school at Harvard. During his first year he attempted a term project creating a writing system similar to a word processor, but that would allow different versions and documents to be linked together nonlinearly, by association. This was, in part, an attempt to keep track of his own sometimes frantic associations and daydreamings brought about by his ADD.

Nelson did not complete the project, but he continued to work on it after that semester and it became the overriding concern of his life. In 1965, he presented a paper at the Association for Computing Machineryin which he coined the term hypertext. Nelson's system was very similar to that envisioned by

I'm pretty sure the "source" is dated prior to the text copied into our article. They even have the same typos plus our version is missing the last two words and the last period. Unless you still think I'm wrong, please repair it. Thanks. Jojalozzo 19:01, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

OK. I rewrote the passage in question. MarkBernstein (talk) 22:18, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

ANI: Irelan12 and Dave Winer

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. —Tom Morris (talk) 22:18, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Andrew Sullivan at Oxford

We care because Sullivan has spent much of his subsequent career criticising electoral tactics without every acknowledging his own behaviour in this respect. This has been extensively debated on Sullivan's page; please don't reverse any more edits on this point. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oinky (talk • contribs) 18:40, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I've been watching Sullivan's page for quite a long time, and I'm familiar with the discussion there. It is not at all clear to me that there is anything here to criticize; Sullivan contested an election for a student post several decades ago, and may have used the popularity accrued from a humorous stunt to his benefit in the contest. This is not, as far as I can see, notable. Perhaps you could explain on Sullivan's talk page why you believe -- against longstanding consensus -- that this affair is notable? MarkBernstein (talk) 02:12, 20 August 2012 (UTC)