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Name
Since we're not obliged to use "official" names per WP:COMMONNAME it should remain at its current title. Notwithstanding an ongoing letter writing campaign by a certain individual that seems to have found traction on here, "Béal na Blá" gets 1 result on Google Books. A similar search on all of Google returns a dearth of reliable sources, the main use of the term is in lyrics to a song. 2 lines of K303 09:32, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've added information regarding the varying versions of the name. It's interesting that the Placenames Commission page itself seems to be in a state of flux regarding this - last time I checked (several months ago), it gave "Béal Átha na Bláiche" as the correct Irish-language version of the name and it didn't mention "Béal na Blá" at all. --Kwekubo (talk)
- That makes sense. However notwithstanding one primary source and one man's letter writing campaign, the common name still is Béal na mBláth and that isn't likely to change for some time I don't think. 2 lines of K303 09:57, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- If I recall, "common name" on this article was once "Béal na Bláth". Would the obscurantists please make up their mind? Béal na Blá is correct, and is marginally different in spelling from whatever the promoters of misinformation want. Given this minuscule difference, most people would opt for the correct spelling. 79.97.154.238 (talk) 10:59, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- WP:NOTSOAPBOX. This article isn't the place for campaigners for "correct" names to fight their battle. 2 lines of K303 11:03, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- If I recall, "common name" on this article was once "Béal na Bláth". Would the obscurantists please make up their mind? Béal na Blá is correct, and is marginally different in spelling from whatever the promoters of misinformation want. Given this minuscule difference, most people would opt for the correct spelling. 79.97.154.238 (talk) 10:59, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- That makes sense. However notwithstanding one primary source and one man's letter writing campaign, the common name still is Béal na mBláth and that isn't likely to change for some time I don't think. 2 lines of K303 09:57, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
I would agree it is not a place for soap-boxing or anything of the sort. It is a place for accuracy however. Wiki is about sharing accurate information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.147.140 (talk) 08:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Accuracy according to who? Whoever recently updated a database and a letter writer? Do they suddenly get to overturn years of how a place is named according to other reliable sources? 2 lines of K303 09:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Accuracy according to the people who have actually studied this topic and are using all known evidence to make a call on the correct name. Misplaced Pages is about accuracy, and according to the Placenames Commission of Ireland, Béal na Blá is the accurate name for this place. Bláth is a misleading corruption of relatively recent vintage. The reputable authority on Irish placenames, in my view, can be trusted much more than the views of people who have not studied this. Roibéard Ó hÚrdaill, in today's Irish Times, for instance, recounts going around the area speaking with natives about how they pronounced the name. His letter in today's Irish Times can be read here. His article studying Béal na Blá is “The Placename Béal na Blá” . If people here believe that "Béal na mBláth" is correct, they should challenge both the Placenames Commission and Ó hÚrdaill in a public forum. Until they do so successfully then most impartial rational observers will accept Béal na Blá as the authoritive name and, with Ó hÚrdaill's evidence, the name the place is known by in the locality. 92.251.156.138 (talk) 12:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Requested move
 | The request to rename this article to Béal na Bláth has been carried out.
If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag. |
Béal na mBláth → Béal na Bláth – I sympathise with those who would prefer this article to be at Béal na Blá, but we have to reflect real-world usage of these placenames per WP:IMOS - as One Night In Hackney commented, there is no hard evidence that "the man on the street" uses "Béal na Blá", either in Irish or in English. A little snooping with Google Maps Street View reveals that signs in the locality, both publically and privately owned, spell the placename as "Béal na mBláth" or "Béal na Bláth". Roibeárd Ó hUrdáil's suggestion of "Béal na Blá" makes much more sense as the original name for the locality, but it is clear from his article that it is conjecture (albeit well-thought-out conjecture) and it does not cite hard evidence. I do have a proposition, though, which might work as a compromise: move the article to Béal na Bláth, which is pronounced the same way. On Google Search, I'm getting 121,000 results for "Béal na Bláth", and only 58,500 for "Béal na mBláth". There is a similar 2:1 preference in favour of "Béal na Bláth" on Google Books. --Kwekubo (talk) 13:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- For posterity, I'm mildly amused to note that "Béal na mBláth" has been removed from the Placename Commission's website too, within the last 24 hours. Perhaps the letter-writing campaign has become more focussed. --Kwekubo (talk) 18:28, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
- Comment I'm inclined to support this proposal. It's the pronunciation I've been familiar with until the novel 'm' that I first came across here. Interested to hear the views of others before iVote. RashersTierney (talk) 20:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
- Neutral. Like Rashers, I seem to recall that it was always "Bláth" when I was young. In my case, however, it always felt like bad Irish, so I was happy when "mBláth" came into vogue. But whatever the consensus is is fine, if anybody ever does actually !vote. Scolaire (talk) 16:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
- Support. It looks like "Béal na mBláth" is a passing fad. Evidence from Oireachtas debates (I don't list the author for written answers, since it would have been an anonymous civil servant. Interesting that the FF and FG speakers on 1967/04/11 are recorded with different spellings):
Date-record Type of text Spelling in transcript Speaker/questioner 1934/03/01 Speech Beal-na-Bláth Richard Mulcahy 1938/04/29 Speech Bealnablath Eamonn O'Neill 1959/05/14 Speech Beal na mBlath Patrick O'Donnell 1960/05/05 Speech Bealnablath Denis J. O'Sullivan 1961/04/11 Speech Beal na mBláth Tadhg Ó Maonghaile 1962/05/22 Speech Beal na Blath Oliver J Flanagan 1963/05/28 Written question Béal na Bláth Daniel Desmond 1965/05/26 Written question; speech Béal na Bláth Donal Creed; Michael Hilliard 1966/07/07 Written question Beal na Blath Donal Creed 1967/04/11 Speech Beal-na-Blath Patrick O'Donnell 1967/04/11 Speech Béal-na-Bláth Michael Hilliard 1967/04/12 Speech Beal-na-Blath Michael O'Leary 1971/08/05 Speech Beal na Blath Louis Belton 1972/05/25 Speech Beal na Blath Oliver J Flanagan 1982/06/24 Written answer Beal na Blath 1987/10/29 Written answer Beal na Blath 1996/11/13 Speech Beal na Bláth P. J. Sheehan 1997/12/17 Written answer Beal na mBlath 1999/10/20 Speech Beal na Bláth Máirín Quill 2009/11/19 Written answer Beal na mBlath 2009/11/26 Written answer Beal na Blath 2011/01/18 Written answer Beal na Blath 2011/11/08 Written answer Beal-na-mBlath
- Béal na Blá is the authoritative spelling. Has anybody a reputable source denying this? Why this article would put an incorrect name, Béal na Bláth/na mBláth as the article name when there is no dispute about the correct name from people educated on the issue is baffling. Is ignorance going to triumph over knowledge in this Misplaced Pages article title also? 92.251.156.138 (talk) 12:48, 22 August 2012 (UTC)