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Northern Iran
Since a huge number of Iranian population are Azeri (Including me!) and those people are genetically related to other Iranic Peoples, I think the term "Northern Iran" is both historically and logically more accurate.
according to many histories azerbaijan people are a mixture between proto turkish people like scythians and huns and later turkish people like khazars and seljuks and later during mongol invasion some uighor turkish tribes immigrated to the area, the north and south azerbaijan has been a turkic accomodated area for at least 3500 years, geneticaly azeri people are so close to people of turkey, common turkic looks is white skinned and colored eyes with hairs varying between black to pure blond, this is while persians of iran are brown and semitic, genetics of turkic people are also very similar to many east european nations because of massive cuman, kipchak, bulgar, khazar and other turkic tribes immigrations to the east europe countries, this is while persians have the closest genetic traits to Arabic and semitic people, based on the historical facts it is quite wrong to consider azerbaijan an iranian area, the only known government in azerbaijan were local khanats, later during the safavid dynasty of iran (which were also a turkic clan) ottoman empire captured azerbaijan, but the area remained under khanat feudal systems until russian empire and qajar dynasty of iran commensed some claims over the area and at last a war begun between qajars and russians over deviding the lands, after many years of war they agreed to put the arax river as the border line, since then north azerbaijan was under russian and later soviet rule and south azerbaijan occupied by iran, nowaday north azerbaijan has gained its independence but south azerbaijan is still under iran's cruelty. the population of azeri turks in iran are at least estimated to be about 20 million souls, this must not be the source of mistake about considering persians as whites, those are iranian azeri turks, persians are a brown semitic people. also this is a very accurate map about the azeri accomodated areas in iran: http://www.joshuaproject.net/profiles/maps/m18859_ir.pdf more references: http://en.wikipedia.org/Genetic_origins_of_the_Turkish_people http://en.wikipedia.org/Great_Seljuq_Empire http://southaz.blogspot.com/2010/07/irans-multi-cultural-and-multi-ethnic.html http://en.wikipedia.org/Khazar http://en.wikipedia.org/Turkic_peoples http://en.wikipedia.org/Ural-Altaic_languages http://www.iranian.com/main/blog/jahanshah-javid/genetics-iranians-least-similar-europeans-or-other-near-easterners http://en.wikipedia.org/Qizilbash http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/21326/ http://en.wikipedia.org/History_of_Azerbaijan#Azerbaijan_Democratic_Republic http://en.wikipedia.org/Turanid_race http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/tomyris.html
Neutrality and politics
Forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Azeri government have some problems regarding human rights, and the last elections were regarded as a sham? (],], ]). Reading the article, this is hardly mentioned, aside from the brief statement that 'lthough Azerbaijan has held several elections since regaining its independence and it has many of the formal institutions of democracy, it remains classified as "not free" (on border with "partly free") in Freedom House's Freedom in the World 2009 survey' and the link to the page Human Rights in Azerbaijan. In addition, the (admittedly claim) in the introduction that 'Azerbaijan remains as one of the most liberal majority-Muslim nations' seems to run counter to the Human Rights article and the sources I've cited; and the soruces don't seem to meet the highest standards of academic rigour - they're two online travel guides.
In general, reading the article, Azerbaijan comes across as a beacon of freedom and democracy in a despotic region (although the article never directly says this); and, whilst it may well be one of the best countries in the region, it is certainly not the paragon of virtue it is portrayed as. I didn't want to make any changes before I checked that I hadn't got the wrong end of the stick here.
Thedisillusionedyouth (talk) 11:07, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
- Given all the coverage, this article obviously needs a Human Rights section listing all the abuses. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 17:19, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
-- Funny how any mention of human rights has vanished from the article during the eurovision contest? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.193.119 (talk) 21:49, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
I've added in a section under politics: at the moment it's only a couple of lines long, but I'm hopping that wiki magic will mean it's filled out collectively. Thedisillusionedyouth (talk) 18:49, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
- It seems wiki magic failed you. This really needs to be rectified. I'll see what I can do, but I can't do it alone. --Glubbdrubb (talk) 13:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
Name of the country
This article is not about the name, there's an article called Name of Azerbaijan (linked in this article), all the details should go there. Here it is suffice to add a couple of brief lines. The name is not the most important thing about the country of Azerbaijan. Also, Iranica is not the best source to use in this particular case, because it contains contradictory info. Inter alia, it contains the following statement:
Thus, at the time of the early Arab geographers, Azerbaijan consisted essentially of a northwestern fragment of the high interior Iranian plateau within limits that did not differ much from the frontiers of present-day Iran and that, in any case, from the side of the lowlands of the Transcaucasia, scarcely exceeded the bed of the Araxes. The imprecise and sometimes contradictory information given by Yāqūt in the beginning of the 7th/13th century, occasionally extends Azerbaijan to the west to Erzinjan (Arzanjān). On the other hand in certain passages, he annexes to it, in addition to the steppes of Moḡān, all of the province of Arrān, bringing the frontier of the country up to Kor, indicating, however, that from this period the conception of Azerbaijan tended to be extended to the north and that its meaning was being rapidly transformed.
As you can see, it contradicts the info found elsewhere in the same source that the name was given to the region only in 1918. Also, littering the article with quotes is not acceptable, see WP:QUOTEFARM and WP:LONGQUOTE. The recent edits to the article are a good example of the overuse of the quotes. Grandmaster 20:12, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
here we have Encyclopædia Britannica :
No specifically Azerbaijani state existed before 1918, and, rather than seeing themselves as part of a continuous national tradition, like the Georgians and Armenians, the Muslims of Transcaucasia saw themselves as part of the larger Muslim world, the ummah. They were referred to as “Tatars” by the Russians; the ethnonym Azerbaijani (azarbayjanli) came into use in the prerevolutionary decades at first among urban nationalist intellectuals. Only in the Soviet period did it become the official and widely accepted name for this people.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/46781/Azerbaijan/44298/Russian-suzerainty
--Espiral (talk) 16:58, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
- It is about the ethnonym Azerbaijani, not the name of the country. Also, Enayatollah Reza is not a reliable source. He is a nationalist Iranian author, not a third party source. I think we have discussed all of this before, yet you are reinserting the content that has no consensus. Grandmaster 18:48, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
- Enayatollah Reza is historian scholar and he got his PH.D from one of USSR university`s . he is Professor and work for Center for the Great Islamic Encyclopedia and he is head of geography of group . he`s works are academic
In addition Enayatollah Reza and britannica i have other academic source that say until 1918 the name of territory wasn`t azerbaijan--Espiral (talk) 19:10, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
- In addition 3 volume of english translate of Encyclopaedia Islamica is published by E J Brill that means this encyclopedia is Tertiary source --Espiral (talk) 19:16, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
- You can read in the same Iranica that the name extended to North since the 13th century A.D. So it is not like an established fact what Reza and others claim. Plus there are many primary sources using the name of Azerbaijan to refer to the lands north of Araks. For example, Sir John Chardin, a traveller from France who visited the Middle East at the end of the 17th century described Azerbaijan as follows:
| “ | Media, which formerly ruled all Asia with an imperial dominion, at present makes but one part of a province, though the largest in the Persian empire, called Azerbeyan or Asapaican. It borders on the east upon the Caspian Sea and Hyrcania, on the south upon Parthia, on the west upon Araxes and the Upper Armenia, of which Assyria is a part, and on the north on Dagestan, which is that mountainous country that borders upon the Muscovite Cossacks, and part of Mount Taurus. The Persians affirm, that the name of Azerbeyan implies, the country of fire, by reason of the famous temple of fire which was there erected, where was kept that fire which the fire-worshippers hold to be a god. Nimrod is said first to have brought in this worship, and there is a certain sect called Guebres which still maintain it.
Chardin, John. "The travels of Sir John Chardin, by the way of the Black Sea, through the countries of Circassia, Mingrelia, the country of the Abcas, Georgia, Armenia, and Media, into Persia proper: 1643-1713." Voyages and Travels in All Parts of the World. Ed. John Pinkerton. Vol. 9., p. 155. London: Strahan and Preston, 1811 ISBN 37131055371074 |
” |
- Keith Abbot, British Consular General in Persia, wrote in the Memorandum on the Country of Azerbaijan in 1863:
| “ | The country known to the Persians as Azerbaijan is divided between them and Russia, the latter Power possessing about five-eighths of the whole, which may be roughly stated to cover an area of about 80,000 square miles (210,000 km), or about the size of Great Britain; 50,000 square miles (130,000 km) are therefore about the extent of the division belonging to Russia, and 30,000 of that which remains to Persia.
The Russian division is bounded on the north and north-east by the mountains of Caucasus, extending to the vicinity of Bakou on the Caspian. On the west it has the provinces of Imeritia, Mingrelia, Gooriel, and Ahkhiska (now belonging to Russia); on the east it has the Caspian Sea, and on the south the boundary is marked by the course of the River Arrass (Araxes) to near the 46 th parallel of longitude, thence by a conventional line across the plains of Moghan to the district of Talish, and by the small stream of Astura which flows to the Caspian through the latter country. In this area are contained the following territorial divisions: - Georgia or Goorjistan, comprising Kakhetty, Kartaliny, Somekhetty, Kasakh; the Mohammedan countries of Eriwan, Nakhshewan, Karabagh, Ghenja, Shirwan, Shekky, Shamachy, Bakou, Koobeh, Salian and a portion of Talish. Georgia is traversed by the River Koor (Cyrus), a stream of no commercial importance, since it is not navigable except by boats. .. The population of Russian Azerbaijan consists of mixed races... The country included in these boundaries and, perhaps a large part, if not all, of Russian Azerbaijan recognized as Medea Atropotena in ancient geography. Extracts from a Memorandum on the Country of Azerbaijan By Keith E. Abbott, Esq., H.M. Consul-General in Persia. Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society of London, Vol. 8, No. 6. (1863 - 1864), pp.275-279. |
” |
- We have a whole page with quotes about the name, here: Name of Azerbaijan/workpage. Admins decided that this issue needs to have a separate article called Name of Azerbaijan without any direct quotes, and it should be linked to this one. This is what is done. And this is the general article about Azerbaijan. Name is a very minor issue, and there's no point in dedicating large sections of the article to minor issues. If you want to work on name issue, please take it to the special article. I see no point in starting another long debate on issues that were settled in the past. Grandmaster 10:17, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Map of Azerbaijan (Karabakh)
Since the Karabakh region is not under Azerbaijan's control (and has never been under Republic of Azerbaijan's control) I propose the main map of Azerbaijan to have Karabakh highlighted in different colour, just like in the current map of Georgia.
Edit request August 9, 2012
Please, some update the population data for the country
As of January 1, 2012, Azerbaijan has a population of 9,235,100
Reference link: http://www.azstat.org/statinfo/demoqraphic/en/AP_/AP_1.shtml and http://www.azstat.org/statinfo/demoqraphic/en/AP_/1_1.xls
Daugvapils (talk) 05:30, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
ref name="Day.az">"Турецкие тележурналисты посетили массовое захоронение в Губе". Day.az. Retrieved 17 October 2010. Template:Ru icon</ref> The claim that this massacre was carried out by the Armenians is not backed up by any valid sourse, but a local Azeri newspaper that obviously has its reasons for spreading hate towards the Armenians. Please come up with more proof, if you can, before spreading such vicious rumors. It is not professional. Thank You.
Ggaddar (Ggaddar (talk) 18:11, 20 August 2012 (UTC)).
Map
We should use the same criteria as for Georgia, Serbia, Cyprus and Moldova, highlighted in different colour the territories that are not under state control. Regards. MauriManya (talk) 21:50, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
Alternate etymology?
Shouldn't the two etymology sections be one section stating that there are two competing etymological theories, rather than two sections "Etymology" and "Alternate etymology"? --Pfhorrest (talk) 05:34, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, that makes sense. Also this might be of your interest. George Spurlin (talk) 13:00, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
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