Misplaced Pages

Talk:Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Nishidani (talk | contribs) at 19:04, 5 October 2012 (→Dedications and literary mentions). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 19:04, 5 October 2012 by Nishidani (talk | contribs) (→Dedications and literary mentions)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 2 months 

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 2 months 
WikiProject iconBiography: Arts and Entertainment / Peerage and Baronetage / Politics and Government B‑class
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
BThis article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and government work group.

Recent edits

I have added some material to the lede and deleted a paragraph about the 16th Earl and put it on his page. This sentence that was a part of the transferred material: "The Earl was known as a sportsman, and among his son's earliest accomplishments were mastery of riding, shooting and hawking." is supported by Ward, pages 9–10. However, Ward does not state that information as a fact, but writes, "With such a father we may be sure that riding, shooting, and hawking were among the earliest accomplishments learned by the young Lord Bulbeck." I'll look for another source for that information and put it back in if I find it.

Also Oxford's temperament and impetuous behavior and its consequences are given short shrift in this article, despite it being among the very first elements of his life mentioned by all modern biographers. This article is not meant to be a foundation for the Oxfordian theory page, and it should follow the scholastic consensus as far as weight. As it stands it is a disorganized listing of facts, with no organizing principle except to mention his literary and patronage accomplishments at every opportunity. I suggest we begin with culling all the mentions of patronage and putting them in one section instead of having them sprinkled throughout in chronological order. Tom Reedy (talk) 20:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Ward reference

I am going through and checking the B. M. Ward references to remove his speculation. War is problematical because half of his book is speculation (in the sections called "Interludes", see pp. ix-x) and he also inserts them through out the text. For example, Ward gives no evidence for his statement that "Oxford never spoke of his step-father thereafter except contemptuously", and in fact Nelson interprets the bequest of a horse as evidence that they were on good terms. (In any case the fact is too trivial to include in this article.) Since Ward's hagiography was written to give a veneer of academic support to the Oxfordian theory and is outdated anyway, I'm culling his cites as I go through the article (which will take a while) and replacing them with other references. Tom Reedy (talk) 17:41, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Unclosed reference tags

Article has numerous unclosed reference tags. Regards, SunCreator 16:25, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Family background

In the article, a historian should depict the family background of Edward de Vere in more detail. He was the 17th Earl of Oxford, after all, so the line of his ancestry was really very impressive. And his family name de Vere - of course of Norman or even other French origin. These details are not very well known to me, and possibly are interesting for all readers. --Zbrnajsem (talk) 08:43, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Oxford's background and family is covered in the encyclopedia, and it would not be useful to cram all this information into one article. See Category:Earls of Oxford, Category:De Vere family, and the article Earl of Oxford. Feel free to add any reliably-sourced material that meets Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines to any article, including these. Before you do so, I suggest you make yourself familiar with those policies and procedures. Tom Reedy (talk) 15:58, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Screwed up refs

I cannot determine what the problem is with the refs in this article. Beginning at ref 86, the refs don't link to anything, and clicking backward from the cite section the refs go to unpredictable places. Can anybody help find the problem? Thanks. Tom Reedy (talk) 03:01, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Never mind; I found it. Giving up and asking for help seems to be a part of the process for me. Tom Reedy (talk) 03:05, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Dedications and literary mentions

They are haphazardly sprinkled through the article in chronological order. I am cutting them and storing them here for a dedicated section to be created later. Tom Reedy (talk) 18:56, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

During this time Anthony Munday dedicated his Primaleon; The First Book to Oxford.

In 1597 Oxford's servant, Henry Lok, published his Ecclesiastes containing a sonnet to Oxford. In his Palladis Tamia, published in 1598, Francis Meres referred to Oxford as one of "the best for Comedy amongst vs".

In 1599 John Farmer dedicated a second book to Oxford, The First Set of English Madrigals, alluding in the dedication to Oxford's own proficiency as a musician. In the same year, George Baker dedicated a second book to Oxford, his Practice of the New and Old Physic, a translation of a work by Conrad Gesner.

  1. Nelson 2003, p. 382 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help): The actual dedication is lost; the 1619 second edition was dedicated to Oxford's heir, in it Munday mentions "these three several parts of Primaleon of Greece were the tribute of my duty and service' to 'that most noble Earl, your father".
  2. Nelson 2003, pp. 386–7 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help)
  3. Nelson 2003, pp. 381–2 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNelson2003 (help)
I think one should make a synthetic statement listing the number of dedications (to show de Vere's ranking in the Elizabethan brownnosing-for-favours/patronage stakes), with a couple of mentions, the most distinguished. The article is way too long, and though Oxfordians think this stuff is a supplement to proofs of his literary distinction, hence credentials as an author of Shakespeare, it really doesn't belong in extenso on this page, but to the Oxfordian page.Nishidani (talk) 19:03, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Categories: