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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 67.170.245.1 (talk) at 15:33, 7 May 2006 (→"For instance violent bullies often bring up violent bullies."). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Shouldn't this article be at Antifeminism? AnAn 09:13, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Sarge Baldy 01:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Odd how feminist minded wiki users have objected to the neutrality of this article, but not to the neutrality of feminism - could it be a simple case of blatant bias? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karlmathews (talk • contribs)

The neutrailty of feminism? Feminism is about women, period, and is biased in everything it writes, says, advocates and does. Normally this bias is expressed as simple misandry, although it is often hidden in postmodernistic rhetoric. Here are a few feminist slogans.

If they can send one man to the moon why can't they send em all?

The best man for the job is a woman.

Neutrality? It's not to be found and where present is seen as sexism against women and attacked.

Criticism of an antifeminist argument does not automatically make the critic a feminist

Just as John Winthrop's opposition to Anabaptism on its anti-intellectual groundings didn't make John Winthrop an intellectual. Longshot14 17:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Some points of potential interest.

Article needs some major meat IMHO.

I encourage editing some lines.

"Anti-feminist groups particularly point to the dramatic increase in the divorce rate and breakdown of the family since the rise of feminism, and note that crime statistics, teenage pregnancy, and drug abuse are all higher among children of fatherless homes . Their critics point out that correlation does not imply causation, that anti-feminist groups fail to consider social factors besides feminism, that social ills faced by children without fathers can also be the result of the father's decisions, and that feminism is not to blame for role models and gender roles that predate it.”

I'd argue that "critics point out..." should be changed to "critics argue...". There are strong statements of fact here that fail to account for potential responses of the antifeminists, particularly the claim about them FAILING to consider social factors. They may very well have taken them into account, but this article, as it is, will leave you in the dark.

"Antifeminists are fond of reports that conclude the Violence Against Women Act hurts men and does little to help women. (Let the Violence Against Women Act Expire Charlotte Allen)"

Again, while referring to the VAWA may be common among antifeminists, it is somewhat suspect to say that they are "fond of" such reports. After all, this research is believed to prove injustice, and while pointing out injustice may be a blast, this section could equally well be interpreted to say that antifeminists like to know that the VAWA supposedly hurts men.

So, it should read more like this; "Antifeminists often point to/have pointed to..." or so, if they indeed discuss that, in such depth. --Thomi 21:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Those seem like reasonable edits to make. Be bold and make them yourself! Catamorphism 05:49, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

The reason I mentioned those is to make it easier for others to spot inaccuracies and/or controversial presentations. --Thomi 18:11, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

"For instance violent bullies often bring up violent bullies."

This doesn't make sense in the context of "social ills faced by children without fathers can also be the result of the father's decisions." All this "bullying" stuff added by Lolympics Lonympics just sounds bizarre. And Adolf Hitler??? johndburger 03:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

It makes as much sense as this...

Many anti feminist groups are just attention seeking bullies who want to put forward deliberately offensive viewpoints to hurt the feelings of decent people.

If feminists get to write the anti-feminist article, perhaps anti-feminists should write the feminist article?

64.172.115.2 17:22, 5 May 2006 (UTC)Rich

This doesn't really have anything to do with whether you're a feminist or an anti-feminist. Feminists and anti-feminists alike may edit any article they please, as long as they conform with the WP:NPOV policy and other Misplaced Pages policies. As a feminist and someone who believes in the important of Misplaced Pages presenting a neutral point of view, I removed this text. You could have done the same yourself. Catamorphism 19:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

First off, feminism is not neutrality, and it never was.

Secondly, I'm still kinda new to this and still learning how editing works on Wiki. I'm one step past observer but am not sure I want to edit articles yet. Perhaps soon.

Thanks for removing the text. But if you don't see it as something a feminist would say about anti-feminism and not something which describes anti-feminism or the reasons behind it, there's not much I can say. Do feminists call women "whiners"? Not that I've ever seen. Feminists do spend an inordinate amount of time and effert calling any man with issues a whiner, I know this from direct experience. Feminism is clearly not about equal treatment, as feminism itself does not treat men and women equally.

64.172.115.2 22:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)Rich

All of the "bullies" material was added by the same user, Lonympics (look at the history of the page to see who added what). So, you're right, both quotes make the same sense, i.e., none. As for who gets to write the articles, the answer is, everyone does. If you're suggesting that a feminist is unable to write a neutral article on anti-feminism, I'd have to disagree. Everyone has a POV, but it needn't show up in the article. —01:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

If you're suggesting that a feminist is unable to write a neutral article on anti-feminism, I'd have to disagree.

I'd say that there is an inherent bias that makes objectivity implausable, at best. Feminism has claimed the victim high ground (and made it pay), so even admitting that men are victims (usually of policies crafted with or by feminism) would be giving up the bias feminism has built against men in the name of political favoritism.

There are many examples, look at the Duluth model, or the Violence Against Women Act, penned by feminism.

If I get the time, I may start adding to the article, there's no shortage of material.

67.170.245.1 13:52, 7 May 2006 (UTC)Rich