Talk:Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary

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Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 15, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on September 13, 2012.The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that before the Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary began operations in 1934 there was a citadel on Alcatraz Island?

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"Haunted"

Can we remove the pseudoscience and extensive coverage of "haunted" areas in the subsections of Alcatraz_Cellhouse#Prison_life_and_the_cells? You can't verify that stuff, and the most that I think would be appropriate would be briefly stating that the penitentiary has a reputation for allegedly being haunted. ❤ Yutsi / Contributions ( 偉特 ) 21:13, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

If you read it is says reported. I think its very relevant, the info is verifiable in multiple reliable sources, that's good enough for me.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 21:32, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

There is nothing "reliable" about a Web site full of "ghost stories." Mythical, nonsensical tosh has no place in an encyclopedia, and anything beyond what Yutsi said goes ridiculously into the direction of WP:UNDUE. Polarscribe (talk) 21:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

No, you can't verify that something is haunted but you can verify something which is reputedly haunted; there are even whole books on the ghosts of Alcatraz. It is cited by numerous reliable sources as "reputedly haunted". We don't claim it to be haunted but are merely reporting what has been reported in multiple places elsewhere. To not mention anything of it is wrong given the coverage on it. Blocks A-C could use information about the time as a prison though.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 21:33, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you understand what a "personal attack" prohibited by WP:NPA is. Making comments about the veracity of claims is not a prohibited "personal attack" and I have not made comments about any contributors. (Comment on the content, not the contributor.) I repeat, you have no right to repeatedly remove comments from a talk page. This article gives significant undue weight to nonsensical "paranormal" baloney that has zero serious scientific credibility. One brief mention is perhaps warranted of these pseudoscientific claims, but not endless repetition of ghost stories. Now let's stop the edit-warring and hash out what a (small) section on these claims should look like.

For example, I am quite sure someone, somewhere has made claims about the White House having ghosts. There is not a single mention of "ghosts" or "haunting" on the White House Misplaced Pages page - for good reason, and that's because those claims have no place in an encyclopedia entry. Polarscribe (talk) 22:16, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

UNDUE? It barely mentions it. Always makes me laugh to see a newbie citing UNDUE and wiki guidelines, sock puppet from Bloomington, Indiana!! Given the wealth of coverage with whole books dedicated to it I think this is perfectly acceptable to mention, although one could argue the alleged hauntings would be better but in a single paragraph at the bottom. Read Reportedly haunted locations in Washington, D.C..♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 23:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

That's an entirely separate article. The main White House article has no mentions of them. I would agree to splitting off all mentions in regards to this site into a separate article. Reportedly haunted locations in San Francisco has significant coverage already, and at best this subject deserves a single link in the main article. Polarscribe (talk) 23:04, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, now who's making personal attacks, referring to the contributor and not the content? I am not a sock puppet, but I am plenty knowledgeable about Misplaced Pages, and under a former account, a retired administrator. But that has nothing to do with this particular dispute, and neither does my current location. Polarscribe (talk) 23:04, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Reportedly haunted locations in San Francisco was written long after this was written. Retired administrator? Or banned administrator? I spent at least 10 hours of my time writing this article, heavily researching it and trying to write a good article which is valuable for wikipedia. I do not have time for arrogant professors who make snarky edit summaries belittling it. There are entire books existing on the ghosts of Alcatraz not to mention substantial coverage in multiple book sources. In fact I could probably write Reported hauntings of Alcatraz as a full article, in fact I think I'll do that tomorrow. The only point I can see is to put all mention of "psuedo science" into a bottom paragraph.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 23:10, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

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