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The Quote Farm
Previously, the Theravada section contained a long list of quotations from the suttas, without any third-party sources or context. This is bad style and unreliable information by Misplaced Pages standards, as verifiability an encyclopedic format are basic to Misplaced Pages articles. I have saved these previous quotes below if they may be re-worked or used in the future. However, what might be more helpful, are reliable sources to pin down the basic doctrine of the arahant in Theravada Buddhism. Tengu800 (talk) 17:01, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
In well known verses in the Pali Canon, the Buddha describes himself as an arahant soon after his enlightenment:
'All-vanquishing,
all-knowing am I, with regard to all things, unadhering. All-abandoning, released in the ending of craving: having fully known on my own, to whom should I point as my teacher?
I have no teacher, and one like me can't be found. In the world with its devas, I have no counterpart.
For I am an arahant in the world; I, the unexcelled teacher. I, alone, am rightly self-awakened. Cooled am I, unbound.
To set rolling the wheel of Dhamma I go to the city of Kasi. In a world become blind,
I beat the drum of the Deathless.'
— Ariyapariyesana Sutta
In the Pali Canon, Gotama Buddha is described as thus:
A monk called Gotama…a son of the Sakyans who went forth from a Sakyan clan...Now a good report of Master Gotama has been spread to this effect: 'That Blessed One is such since he is arahant and Fully Enlightened, perfect in true knowledge and conduct, sublime, knower of worlds, incomparable teacher of men to be tamed, teacher of gods and humans, enlightened, blessed...He teaches a Dhamma that is good in the beginning, good in the middle and good in the end...' Now it is good to see such arahants.
— Saleyyaka Sutta
In the Pali Canon, Arahant qualities are described as thus:
When a monk is an arahant, his fermentations ended, who has reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and is released through right gnosis, he is dedicated to six things: renunciation, seclusion, non-afflictiveness, the ending of craving, the ending of clinging/sustenance, & non-deludedness.
— Sona Sutta
In the Pali Canon, Arahant qualities are described as thus:
…those monks who are arahants — whose mental effluents are ended, who have reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who are released through right gnosis — no (future) cycle for manifestation…
— Alagaddupama Sutta
In the Pali Canon, attainment of arahantship is described as thus:
…dwelling alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, and resolute — he in no long time reached and remained in the supreme goal of the holy life, for which clansmen rightly go forth from home into homelessness, knowing and realizing it for himself in the here and now. He knew: ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for the sake of this world.’ And thus Ven. Ratthapala became another one of the arahants.
— Ratthapala Sutta
"Monks, there are these four floods. Which four? The flood of sensuality, the flood of becoming, the flood of views, & the flood of ignorance. These are the four floods. Now, this noble eightfold path is to be developed for direct knowledge of, comprehension of, the total ending of, & the abandoning of these four floods." - SN 45.171
18 Arhats
Hi, I noticed that there exists a page Eighteen Arhats. In editing a page (Guanxiu) I noticed that this page and the eighteen arhats pages aren't interlinked (as well I tihnk there might be another seperate sixteen arhats article). I thought these might warrent a mention on this page as to improve the context of the other two articles. But since I don't know much about this topic I thought I would just leave a comment. Adrianturcato (talk) 22:58, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
- Good catch. I just revised the text to include a link to the 18 arhats, and mention of the first artist. Tengu800 (talk) 01:25, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Questionable material
Nonetheless, the Pali Tipitaka, the earliest complete Buddhist canon of scripture, portrays the arhat as the final product of the Buddha's path to liberation and the goal to which all disciples aspired. The Mahayana was motivated by a more altruistic ideal in which spiritual practitioners while making efforts towards their own liberation were moved by compassion towards their fellow man and committed to helping them discover the path to liberation too.
Buddhaghosa is not a reliable source regarding early Buddhism, as he lived almost 1000 years after the Buddha. The Pali Canon also was not put into writing until hundreds of years after the time of the Buddha. The texts of the Pali Canon can tell us certain things about the Theravada school, but not much about early Buddhism as a whole. The statements being made here are also not backed up by the sources. For example, citing an author's interpretations of Buddhaghosa's writings does not provide us any proof about what Buddhists believed almost 1000 years before. The statement being made about the Mahayana is not a reliable source for such material, and the authors are theorizing about the origins of the bodhisattva path, rather than presenting any information or facts related to its actual origins. Tengu800 01:30, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
- No serious published scholar accepts your absurd premise that the Pali canon cannot tell us much about early Buddhism. Buddhaghosa is not the source for this statement but the Pali tipitaka itself which was first put to writing in the first century BCE. Buddhaghosa is a commentator and exegete of these writings which were then already hundreds of years old. The nature of the arhat (called arahant in Pali) is made crystal clear within the sutta pitaka. There is no ambiguity whatsoever. It is well known among scholars of Indian religion that the concept of the arhat existed prior to the Buddha's lifetime. What Bhikkhu Bodhi asserts here is uncontroversial. Further, Damien Keown and Charles Prebish (two of the world's leading Buddhist scholars) are not 'theorizing' about the origins of the bodhisattva path but explaining how the Mahayana distinguished itself from other schools and the defining feature in the early Mahayana was the belief in a more pro-actively compassionate form of Buddhist practice using skillful means to help others. It parallels the Christian ethic that was emerging at the same time in the West. The origins of the bodhisattva path can be textually located in the early perfection of wisdom literature. The Mahayana originally called itself the bodhisattva yana. The word Mahayana was a later polemical appellation to assert superiority over schools termed Hinayana. The Mahayana is in essence the vehicle of the bodhisattvas. And a bodhisattva - according to the Perfection of Wisdom in 8000 lines - is someone who while working towards their own liberation helps others to awaken to the path too. None of these things are dubious or controversial. They are commonly accepted data within the community of professional scholars. 81.106.127.14 (talk) 11:33, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
- Actually a number of scholars have stated precisely that the Pali Canon can tell us little concrete about early Buddhism. For example, which texts existed at that time, and which were compiled later. Many scholars look to certain materials like the Sutta Nipata as being older than the Nikayas, and representing an earlier stratum of Buddhism. Although there is no consensus on the matter, much has been published to this effect by "serious scholars." It has even been pointed out, and has become a common view in scholarship, that early Buddhist texts diverged much more than previously believed. This has been the trend since studying the Gandharan Buddhist Texts, which are different from both Chinese and Pali sources, and yet these are the oldest extant Buddhist texts in existence. The old view that the Pali Canon is roughly representative of early Buddhism does not have much credibility.
- Again, your viewpoint that the Sutta Pitaka says this or that is original research. If it is not original research, then the viewpoint can be attributed to some scholar or commentator. Misplaced Pages typically relies on high quality secondary sources, not primary sources, and certainly primary sources that require the interpretation of religious texts. Bhikkhu Bodhi is a scholar, but he is a religious scholar and not a secular academic. His statements attributed to him rather than to the Pali Canon itself (again, attributing a view to a religious text is original research).
- Your material that you added about the Mahayana is cherry picking sources and misrepresenting them. The material you added was written in such a way that it promotes the view that bodhisattvas have the same goal as arhats ("liberation"). However, this viewpoint you are promoting contradicts mainstream scholarship on Mahayana Buddhism, as well as the vast majority of Mahayana texts. It is a standard Mahayana teaching, for example, that arhats have not attained the same nirvana as samyaksambuddhas. It is also a standard teaching that there is a hierarchy of attainments, with samyaksambuddhas at the top, advanced bodhisattvas below that, pratyekabuddhas below that, and arhats further below. The material added does not make this critical distinction, but attempts to whitewash the entire matter while claiming that the stated source backs up such a view. In fact, the material does not represent the original source well at all, or give a balanced view on the matter. The material added is being used to advance your own view and is being done by cherry-picking sources and misrepresenting them.
- Further, your claim that the term Mahayana is polemic is untrue and shows that you are not so familiar with scholarship on the matter. Nattier has shown that the term Hinayana was created long after the term Mahayana, and that the term Mahayana was just an honorary term for Bodhisattvayana. The old view that Hinayana consisted of "Hinayana schools" is also outdated scholarship, and nobody holds that view today. Hinayana and Mahayana are doctrinal distinctions held by individuals within a traditional Buddhist nikaya. It is widely acknowledged, for example, that monks following the Sravakayana and Mahayana often coexisted in the same monasteries as part of the same nikayas. Further, if you want to pull out quotes from the Astasahasrika Prajnaparamita, then I would be quite happy to do so as well. There are many points in that text in which it is quite clearly stated that the level of arhats and pratyekabuddhas is far lower than that of samyaksambuddhas, and that bodhisattvas should never fall back to that level. Of course, that's not the sort of quote that you would choose, is it?
- " bodhisattva - according to the Perfection of Wisdom in 8000 lines - is someone who while working towards their own liberation helps others to awaken to the path too." I would be curious to see your quote from the Astasahasrika Prajnaparamita, though, since your phrasing of that statement seems unusual. Tengu800 17:30, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
- "Ariyapariyesana sutta".
- "Saleyyaka Sutta". Access to Insight. Retrieved 2009-03-16.
- "Sona Sutta". Access to Insight. Retrieved 2009-03-16.
- "Alagaddupama Sutta". Access to Insight. Retrieved 2009-03-16.
- "Ratthapala Sutta". Access to Insight. Retrieved 2009-03-16.