Talk:Cornell University - Misplaced Pages

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March 11, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
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Help

I am a student at Cornell University currently working on developing a Wiki page for Ithaca Bakeries. I was wondering if you would mind looking over what we had already or would be interested in linking our page to yours. Here is the page under construction now: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Jrb374/Ithaca_Bakery_and_Collegetown_Bagels --Sckim125 (talk) 20:58, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Boosterism removal

These are examples of academic boosterism.

Cornell is usually ranked among the top twenty universities in the world in a variety of rankings.

Many of Cornell's schools have been consistently ranked as some of the top schools in the United States.

The claims make conclusions not explicitly stated in any of the sources used, and include weasels and puffery. On Misplaced Pages, claims should be fully substantiated and stated simply and neutrally.
Despite clearly noting this issue in the edit history, Johnny Squeaky is insistent on keeping these claims. The only argument he has offered in support for keeping them is that he believes they are true, which is irrelevant to the issue. --Coolbb (talk) 23:01, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

I think you're taking this a little far. The comments are no different than on many university wiki articles. As "boosterism", it's exceptionally tame, *IF* it even qualifies as that.

Cornell is usually ranked among the top twenty universities in the world in a variety of rankings.

This is a factual statement.

Many of Cornell's schools have been consistently ranked as some of the top schools in the United States.

This, too, is a factual statement. References can be found, but until then, maybe I'll add the template. I mean seriously, simply because a ref needs to be found has exactly zip to do with "boosterism", and these statement hardly qualify if at all. =//= Johnny Squeaky 01:11, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

The sentences don't really add much value to the encyclopedia, and Misplaced Pages:Avoid academic boosterism invites us to "assert facts, not opinions" and to "avoid vague terms of praise" in pursuit of establishing a NPOV. Saying the university "is usually ranked" well is weak prose, as is saying "many of Cornell's schools" rank well . —Eustress 03:47, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

First, there are many short sentences in many Wiki articles that "really don't add much", which is clearly a subjective statement in any case. However...

Saying that something us "usually ranked..." at a certain level is not a random opinion. Likewise, pointing out that Cornell's various colleges/departments are consistently ranked at a certain level is not a random opinion, but rather a statement of something that exists as a fact or in this case some type of ranking or evaluation by a known and respected publication or organization that does such rankings. All that is missing is a proper reference, which can almost certainly be found. =//= Johnny Squeaky 04:19, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

This game of parroting rankings to the point of undue influence within the article (above and beyond the fact they're statistical abstractions that are trivially gamed) and introducing peacock words into the article ignores the desperate need for attention to other glaring holes in the article. For instance, is there an undergraduate core curriculum that students take, or do they simply learn whatever's ranked highly in a magazine? I'm of the opinion the ranking section could be removed in its entirety and the quality of the article would actually be improved. Madcoverboy (talk) 06:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Your view is classic POV. Rankings are a matter of public record just like every other subjective thing at Misplaced Pages. I'm sorry if you have a personal problem with Ivy League schools, that's your issue. I attended the University of Oregon, a public school. But I'm not carrying any chips about those more fortunate than I who went to the "snooty" schools, and your issues have no relevance here. =//= Johnny Squeaky 07:02, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Yawn, personal attacks, what a surprise. For the record, I went to MIT which "outranks" Cornell on almost any metric one might find, and although you'll find there is no fetishization of rankings on that article as on this one. Take a gander over there if you're actually interested in improving the article rather than attacking other editors. Madcoverboy (talk) 18:11, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Good grief! "Yawn"??? Talk about "personal attacks". Apparently you are incapable of actual discussion where people have views different than your own. Good bye. =//= Johnny Squeaky 22:58, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Enough. You've both made your points now move on. ElKevbo (talk) 23:06, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

If those statements are supported by sources or are summaries of slightly longer, well-sourced sections then they're fine. If they're unsourced then they are indeed very minor forms of puffery but only because they're unsourced (in which case they can be removed on that basis without even bothering to decide if it's puffery, POV, etc.). ElKevbo (talk) 23:04, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Are you posting under more than one account? =//= Johnny Squeaky 23:07, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

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