Misplaced Pages

Well spoken. All block reasons should be so concise. Bishonen | talk 15:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC).

This was my most-favorite-ever couldn't-be-more-concise-or-any-more-accurate unblock request response, hands down. Zad68 16:09, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Fucking weirdest thing. I was just checking the history of the homophobia article on a completely unrelated matter, and I saw that name in the history with the strikethrough showing it's blocked (thanked to whatever script), and checked out the talk page to see what had happened... it's like when you hear a word for the first time, and then hear it everywhere you go. Sorry to go so wildly off-topic. Just had to say that. :P — PinkAmpers& 16:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Well confusing blocks and bans is a fairly common mistake. Also, I seem to recall one sockmaster who constantly pushes the POV that being Jewish is mutually exclusive with holding any other ethnicity, but I can't remember a name. Anyone know who I'm talking about? — PinkAmpers& 16:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

I do! But, unfortunately, I can't remember the name either. I'm not sure why I replied, really. – Richard BB 16:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Y'all are probably thinking of Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive782#Talk:Germans and User:Guitar hero on the roof/User:Danton's Jacobin. I thought that too, at first, but looking at the contribs, GWE seems likely. I've started an SPI, so we'll see what happens. maybe I'm just slow today, but I can't tell whether Bish is being facetious... Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:11, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

You may think of Bishzilla as facetious, if you like. You'd do so at your own risk, of course. Drmies (talk) 18:23, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Rumour has it that the real reason that Finnish children's Heavy Metal band Hevisaurus split up was not a contract dispute with their record label, but that they were all seeking to win the affections of Teh Bishzilla and argued over who was going to send the biggest bunch of Valentine's Day roses.--Shirt58 (talk) 09:18, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking more old school: /.Volunteer Marek 00:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

• For the record, GuitarHeroOnTheRoof, whose name has been clumsily dropped in this thread, with whom I have corresponded off-wiki, is Israeli. I really doubt that he's gonna pull the name "English Patriot Man" from the sky. There is a simplistic Kumbaya group of editors provoking needless conflict by insisting upon a single article on the members of the German nation-state and the members of the German ethnic-group and then putting Karl Marx's portrait right in the middle of the montage. Power wiki politics in the content department... But, hey, that's an editing conflict at root, not a matter for AN/i (though eventually a matter for ArbCom). Still, the stupid aspersions about the opinions of this or that editor about the relationship between ethnic Jews and ethnic Germans needs to cease. If you've got sock puppet cases to be made, this isn't the place. Carrite (talk) 18:24, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Censorship by archiving

The discussion at Talk:Jesus has been archived twice while ongoing. In both cases, the pattern has been that those doing the archiving insist that others are disruptive merely for expressing their views. In neither case was the thread started by those accused of "disruption." Rather, we gave our opinion. Then we were accused of disrupting, for responding to what others had said. Then the discussion was archived, always less than 24 hours after the last comment, and always with the archivers giving themselves the last word. It is outright censorship.

In the most recent case, I was in the middle of typing a response to comments directed at me, when the entire thread was archived. I consider it censorship, because what is considered disruptive is the mere expression of certain opinions, such as that there is a problem with the sourcing and claims made for historical existence of Jesus.

Current dispute: Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556, History2007. The former accused me of vandalism on my Talk page--for what? Humanpublic (talk) 17:53, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

The previous time this happened, I was warned for 3RR. I read the guidelines, which define 3RR as involving edits that undo someone's else's work. Exactly how is it somebody's "work" to archive a thread (that is active)? It seems to me that archiving an active discussion is actually an undoing of the conversants' work. Humanpublic (talk) 18:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

• Comment User Humanpublic is a highly disruptive user who has been actively disrupting the talk page of Jesus for months. Almost all of his comments violate WP:NOTAFORUM as he challenges the facts in the article, supported by several academic sources, and all he has to show is his own personal opinion. He has been told time and time again to present his own sources, yet never cared to do so. He has also continued to ignore all comments about the talk page not being a forum. His accusation that he was censored is ridiculous, as he has been given tons of occasions and time to present his arguments using sources. He has never taken that opportunity, and there was no indication whatsoever that he was about to do so.Jeppiz (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Humanpublic is a thinking editor who challenges the conservative status quo. Jeppiz is a highly disruptive user who takes completely innocent editors who also happen to disagree with him to ANI, wasting everyone else's time in the process, and suffering no consequences. HiLo48 (talk) 21:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

(ec x3) see multiple warnings by various users on OP's talkpage, dating back to December last year; beating this horse almost SPA-like since September, and rationale for closing the section in question (permalink). Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 18:02, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

He also deleted my comment: ] and then accused me of vandalism. Yes, those who disagree with me, give a lot of "warnings." Warnings for responding to what they say to me. Humanpublic (talk) 18:05, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Your responses are good material for a blog or op-ed pieces; feel free to write those. It's not what wikipedia is for. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 18:07, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

My response was a direct answer to the question posed to me by History2007. He asked for a source about a claim I made, and I gave him the source and the quote. As for "disrupting for months", not counting the Talk page comment you deleted, I've made 3 comments on the Talk page in the last month. Humanpublic (talk) 18:10, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if you're deliberately misrepresenting the facts or if you really this that that is what happened. The facts of the matter is that after you returning for the umpteenth time repeating your own personal opinions, you were reminded about WP:NOTAFORUM and urged to present sources. You decided to ignore all that, and just went on and on about your what you believe, as you've done so often before. Seb_az86556, who had not been involved in the discussion, then stepped in an archived the most irrelevant parts that clearly violated WP:NOTAFORUM, clearly stating that further violations would be treated as vandalism. You ignored that, you deleted his archiving - and you went to posting your own personal opinion over and over again.Jeppiz (talk) 18:11, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Violations of WP:NOTAFORUM are NOT vandalism in the wikipedia sense. They may be disruptive, (and in this case they certainly are,) but they can not be treated as vandalism. Sperril (talk) 19:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

(ec x lots) Okay, I get it - everyone's pissed. Jesus is one of those articles that will bring out incredible POVs all round, and anyone editing it needs to have a very thick skin to survive. That's just the way it is. Is anyone reverting anyone's edits or deleting stuff in the article? If yes, there are available channels such as WP:3RR. If no, simple thing would be to ignore until sources turn up. I can't hand on heart see any vandalism here - bring us some diffs of talk comments being changed, refactored or blanked, then we might have something to go on. Ritchie333 18:08, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I gave it to you. My comment was deleted : . My comment gave a source. Then he attacked me for a lack of sources and told me to go write a blog. He archived an active discussion. Humanpublic (talk) 18:14, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I just noticed Seb_az86556 is an admin. Maybe I should quit now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Humanpublic (talk • contribs) 18:18, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Learn to read. I'm not. And why would that matter, anyways? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 18:25, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Have any of you tried going to dispute resolution on this? Ritchie333 18:24, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

This is not a content-dispute. It's a behavior issue. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 18:26, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree. To the best of my knowledge, WP:DRN is for content disputes. If Humanpublic had presented sources when first encouraged to so (or the second, third or perhaps twentyfifth time), there might have been something to discuss at DRN. When a user spends month after month just repeating his personal opinion, which is at odds with what every academic in the field says, I don't see a content dispute. There are several content disputes at Jesus, but this isn't one of them.Jeppiz (talk) 18:29, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I said nothing at odds with what "every academic in the field" says (what field is that, anyway? history? hardly any of the sources are classical historians. they are theologists). I said most of the sources are Christian, which is a fact. I said the lack of secular historian sources matters--my editorial opinion about sourcing, not about the subject itself. I said there is no contemporaneous evidence of the existence of Jesus, which is sourced to the sources already in the article. Then I gave the actual source and link, and it was deleted.

I'm going to restore my deleted comment from Talk. I'd like the deleter warned for vandalism. Humanpublic (talk) 18:35, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

You shouldn't do that. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 18:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

As someone who has butted heads with Seb in the past, let me make it explicitly clear that this is not 'vandalism' in the Misplaced Pages sense. It may be many other things, but vandalism is intentional defacement of Misplaced Pages in bad faith. Despite that it seems like a dick move to you, you cannot demonstrate that Seb did it to harm the encyclopedia.--v/r - TP 18:49, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Can you supply us with diffs of where you've discussed this before? Sorry, but I think everyone here has got carried away, shot their mouths off, and just needs to just calm down and take a deep breath. Ritchie333 18:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Nobody is getting carried away except for the OP. OP must launch a diligent search for sources that are relevant, then come back and make his case. That's how it works. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 18:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

You are also getting carried away. Do not delete edits as vandalism when they clearly are not. Vandalism has a very specific definition on wikipedia. This isn't it. That being said, Humanpublic is simply not getting it. This has been going on for far too long. Admin action needs to be taken. Sperril (talk) 19:42, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Topic at hand

Threads on Talk:Jesus will be archived 3 days after the last comment by Miszabot. If editor(s) don't like or find Humanpublic's et. al. arguments unconvincing, I highly recommend they ignore them. If editor(s) feel specific editors are being disruptive they should first politely address the matter on user, not article, talk. If editors truly feel additional steps must be taken, they could bring them here -- but I encourage anyone contemplating such action to have their ducks in a row and bring diffs not rhetoric. Slapping archive tags on conversations with pointy comments about editors is not a good move, not actually supported by written policy, and is itself disruptive. NE Ent 00:38, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Ignoring user comments may work at times. But there have been cases in Misplaced Pages where some users have relied on silence amounts to consent arguments when they have been ignored. So quite ironically this goes back to the no opposing sources issue, and the silence of Apple Computer about news reports that all iPads are manufactured in N. Korea, just discussed above. But I would prefer to sign off from this discussion now, before it takes up the rest of my life... History2007 (talk) 00:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Having had a look at Humanpublic's contributions, I see no evidence whatsoever of disruption to the Jesus article. His replies have generally been polite and courteous, unlike some of the editors who've disagreed with him. The case of him going to 3RR has a very strong sense of "go ahead, punk, make my day" from those who filed it. Therefore I utterly endorse Ent's comments above that if you don't like Humanpublic's opinions on talk, and if you think he sounds like a broken record, but is not damaging the article, to simply ignore him. I appreciate patience has been tested, but losing your rag over it will never work. Ritchie333 09:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

But the accusation here was the primarily problem with Humanpublic's comments have been they are forum or blog like comments i.e. have nothing to do with improving the article. In that case, I don't see how 'silence amounts to consent' comes in to it or matters. Nil Einne (talk) 13:44, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with Ent, although I would be less soft: moves like this one are highly disruptive, plain and simple. Humanpublic is free to express opinions and concerns in the talk page, especially if supported by sources, even if they are minority views, and noone is allowed of misleadingly marking them as vandalism. Cavarrone (talk) 09:37, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Would this be considered a legal threat?

It looks like one to me, in the edit summary. (For questions, please contact UC Acquistion Co LLC's attorney, Christopher Panos. This page is being monitored for libel, and the new ownership will take appropriate steps to address those contributing to libeling the new company ownership.) I warned the editor User talk:70.22.150.151. Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 21:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

• Upper Crust Pizzeria (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• User:70.22.150.151 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Please keep an eye on Upper Crust Pizzeria. The IP editor listed above removed about 5k from the article with the note: "For questions, please contact UC Acquistion Co LLC's attorney, Christopher Panos. This page is being monitored for libel, and the new ownership will take appropriate steps to address those contributing to libeling the new company ownership." Diff. GabrielF (talk) 21:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

• That is absolutely a legal threat. IP blocked. Thanks! NawlinWiki (talk) 21:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

They took out valid, sourced information calling it libelous (which it was not). A NLT block is in order here. The fact that their company may have made some mistakes doesn't mean they can just erase it from the internet. gwickwire_edits 21:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Looks like a new set of IPs are involved now. I just blocked 24.221.237.1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) for edit warring. 24.221.237.2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) is also active currently. I have done a little fact-checking to make sure that the IPs didn't have a point; however, I found that the claims in the article are backed up by sources. I don't think I'm sitting too close to the situation to do it, but more apparent-socks come in to join the situation, I'm going to protect the article. —C.Fred (talk) 23:30, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm somewhat familiar with the situation from living in the area. The IP editor says: "The Upper Crust LLC filed for bankruptcy, but the brand did not. You continue to include libelous material that is factually incorrect. The brand never filed for Chapter 11, and is under new ownership". I am looking at a Boston Globe article from January 8 that says: "Upper Crust filed for bankruptcy protection in October with at least $3.4 million in debts, and about $1.6 million in claims have been filed by government agencies for unpaid meals taxes, along with back wages and damages owed to workers." I don't quite understand what the IP is saying. I'm not certain how a brand can file for bankruptcy. A new company, UC Acquisitions bought the leases to four restaurants. According to the Globe that company has some ties to founder Jordan Tobins but Tobins and UC Acquisitions claim it is not Tobins money that is being used. We should probably change the owner listed in the infobox. Even if there was some merit to what the IP is saying about bankruptcy, that does not explain the other deletions, related to labor issues, that are well-sourced. GabrielF (talk) 23:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

You are correct, brands don't file for bankruptcy protection, companies do. It is the job of the bankruptcy trustee to reorganise the entity which can involve selling off its assets, including its brands. It would appear that in this case the brand was sold to a new owner. Why yes, IAAL, how did you guess?--ukexpat (talk) 02:45, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

IP notified of this discussion. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 04:33, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I've deleted a two-year-old claim by anonymous employees that the operation is being investigated by customs and immigration. It was not confirmed by the agency and denied by the target, the claim has not been repeated by the Globe subsequently and article reporting the allegation has been removed from the Boston Globe website.

In early 2012, further allegations of criminality surfaced, as Jordan Tobins was placed on leave after using company funds for personal expenses.

• Abelson, Jenn (June 19, 2012). "Upper Crust accused of scheming on pay". The Boston Globe. Retrieved November 16, 2012.

I've copied the last query about BLP concerns to Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Upper Crust Pizzeria, since that's the more appropriate forum. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 07:53, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Here is the relevant quote from the article: "Marcus’s about-face comes in the middle of a fierce battle for control of the gourmet pizza empire between Tobins and co-owners Joshua Huggard and Brendan Higgins. The pair recently sued Tobins, accusing him of charging the company more than $750,000 in personal expenses, including the purchase of a plane, and placed the founder on administrative leave in March." GabrielF (talk) 12:59, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

User: Ysfan redux; rangeblock likely needed

User: Ysfan, who was brought to AN/I not long ago , and indeffed by User: Bwilkins for some very nasty personal attacks. He has begun socking as User:MegaMind75, and was subsequently blocked by User: Qwyrxian. He has stated that that he has an intention to continue socking and making personal attacks (here), and thus, I believe a rangeblock is warranted. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 04:05, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

As the target of one of the personal attacks, I think it's just better to WP:DENY oxygen to this fire. Lets not make a bad situation worse.  little green rosetta(talk)
central scrutinizer  04:24, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

We generally don't through down rangeblocks in cases like this. I don't even think that most of our WP:LTA users get rangeblocks. Besides, the user is probably right in that rangeblocks would effect too many good users in the process. If a checkuser wants to investigate, they can do so, but I think the easier solution is just to block and reblock. The user is primarily interested in a single topic, so blocking socks as they come up should be simple. Even if they get another interest, the editing style is clear enough that we'll still spot them eventually. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:35, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Probably one of the most unfortunate blocks overall. Had a bad day, went ape-shit over another editor, and is now persona non grata. This really didn't have to get to this point, and really doesn't have to end this way. I left Ysfan an exact way forward last week, but apparently community behaviour is not in his nature (✉→BWilkins←✎) 10:43, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Time to pull out the area of denial weapon and just RBI them. Feeding him isn't going to make it any better now. They've joined the dark side so if he's not willing to help himself, then there's nothing for him here. Blackmane (talk) 11:24, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Disruption from a set of dynamic IP addresses.

What can be done about this IP editor. He is obviosuly a sockpuppet and is causing me a lot of trouble. He insists on leaving his changes in place before we discuss. He can't be banned, because he is using a dynamic IP address (a different address from Vodaphone appears to be allocated to him every time he logs on), yet he is threatening me with 3RR action.

• User:212.183.140.3 (12 February 2013 - 13:00 to 13:21)
• User:212.183.140.4 (16 February 2013 - 09:32 to 09:45)
• User:212.183.140.5 (11 February 2013 - 20:08 20:42)
• User:212.183.140.38 (13 February 2013 - 13:26 to 13:31)
• User:212.183.128.129 (13 February 2013 - 17:41 to 19:56)
• User:212.183.128.192 (15 February 2013 - 11:29 to 12:47)
• User:212.183.128.207 (12 February 2013 - 11:07 & 13 February 2013 - 16:20 to 16:38 & 15 February 2013 22:32 to 23:02)
• User:212.183.128.211 (13 February 2013 - 14:01 to 14:11)
• User:212.183.128.236 (15 February 2013 - 14:03 to 16:09)
• User:212.183.128.242 (14 February 2013 - 19:25 to 19:45)

BTW, I can't inform this editor that I have placed this message as he is an editor of No fixed abode. For the record, Vodaphone uses IP addresses 212.183.*.*, giving a potential of about 64,000 addresses. The above evidence suggests that Vodaphone uses addresses 212.183.140.* and 212.183.128.* for its mobile customers, giving 510 addresses. Martinvl (talk) 13:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

• Backstory is here: Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/DeFacto. Garamond Lethet
  c 13:14, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
  •  Checkuser needed Interesting. Same address range being used in Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/Hackneyhound. We need a checkuser to make sure that we can implement rangeblocks without causing too much collateral damage.
     — Berean Hunter (talk) 13:23, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Unfortunately there is likely to be significant collateral damage. I made 10 random searches on the range in question, avoiding those that I know are associated with the editor in question. Every one of the hits showed editor activity. The one thing that I can think of is to declare that any edits to a range of IP addresses on articles of a specified category or categories are likely to be the work of a sockpuppet and may be deleted on sight. (In this case the categories would be "Category:SI units", "Category:Systems of units" and "Category:Motorways in England". Whoever undoes such work would paste a standard message on the user page. I know that this would be a new policy, but with increasing use of WiFi and I-phones, this is likely to become an increasing problem. Alternatively, this could be reported on the 3RR page and an administrator could give the agrieved editor permission to undo edits from the IP address range in a specified category as though they were sockpuppets. Martinvl (talk) 14:45, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
      • If the IP range is relatively narrow (i.e. blocks of /16) and is hitting articles where there is likely to be some consistent categories, this could possibly be dealt with via an Edit filter. Black Kite (talk) 19:29, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

@Martinvl: what exactly is the disruption that you allege here, because a cursory glance at recent edits made by some of the IPs you listed above doesn't reveal anything untoward, and using an ISP that randomly assigns IP addresses to customers from a whole range, even during one virtual session, cannot be described as such.

Also, can you show evidence that 212.183 accounts have been used to disrupt articles from each of the categories "SI units", "Systems of units" and "Motorways in England" that you listed, because again, I see none.

I am interested because I too often edit from a 212.183 account, and I am surprised that your complaint has been accepted without any supporting evidence. 212.183.128.241 (talk) 22:39, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I believe 'Hackneyhound block evasion' is the issue at hand. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:55, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• Or should that be Factocop? Joking aside, the Hackneyhound account is notorious for using Vodafone IPs as socks. Lukeno94 (talk) 08:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The choice of material suggests that this is User:DeFacto, who has a history of disruption, pushing his own anti-metric point of view regardless of consensus. Martinvl (talk) 09:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• The other 212.183 editor asked for evidence of disruption at categories "SI units", "Systems of units" and "Motorways in England". I take it that you do not have any, or you would have presented it. You are wasting everyone's time with your smokescreen accusations, and your agenda is very transparent. Now put up or shut up. 212.183.140.48 (talk) 10:37, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• DeFacto and Factocop... those names are very, very coincidental... and I don't believe in coincidences. They're using the same IPs, it seems, and have very, very similar names... Lukeno94 (talk) 10:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Attempt to game the anti-edit-warring rules

Editor User:Martinvl, an editor with a history of edit warring (see his talkpage!) and with 2 edit warring blocks under his belt, and who has been accused of gaming the system before to push metrication into articles, particularly articles related to the Falkland Islands, now seems to have decided for himself that the opinions of IP editors are worthless. See his edit summary on this edit where he says "Undid revision ... Reinstated text as per consensus of registered editors." That is totally unacceptable.

This seems to be part of an organised campaign to push pro-metrication POV into this and other articles too (see International System of Units where is is under a 3RR warning), despite there not being reliable sources which support it. In Metric system he is trying to apply fake dates to CIA data and then use a USENET Newsgroup post to support his POV that the CIA is wrong. Can someone please remind him that consensus includes IP users and that WP:OR and WP:VER apply in all cases, even if he and another registered user disagree. 212.183.140.48 (talk) 10:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• As you are on a variable IP, that comment makes sense - it's impossible to tell whether a whole load of Vodafone IPs are one person without technical data or similar things. If you're a legitimate user with nothing to hide, why not start an account to get rid of the variable IP issue? For what it's worth, I agree with 2007 being correct, having looked at the information - it's the original date. It most definitely does not fall under WP:OR. Also, questions such as "How long have you been editing Misplaced Pages Martinvl?" are totally irrelevant to a discussion, and if you checked out his contributions, you could answer that yourself. Martinvl is not the only editor to disagree with you, and I see no editors directly supporting you. As far as I can see, it's you that started the edit war, not him. Lukeno94 (talk) 11:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Maybe, in this case. But there are certainly issues in the way Martinvl deals with these situations and with the topic as a whole. I can think of several cases in my experience where his arguments and conduct have fallen very clearly the wrong side of WP:GAME, with the effect of inappropriately pushing articles to a more pro-metric position. An example would be a few months back when he insisted that geography is a science and therefore that we're not allowed to use miles (including in brackets) in any geographical context on any part of Misplaced Pages. Such an interpretation is only plausible based on a very selective reading of WP:UNITS, such as to override the clear intentions of that guideline. Kahastok talk 11:40, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Some responses:

@Kahastok: This is a total misrepresentation of what I wrote and I demand a retraction. My text was I am surprised at User:Wee Curry Monster changing all the units of measure of geographical-related sections. Under WP:MOSNUM, science-related topics should use SI-only and since Geography is a science (see definition in Misplaced Pages article)the should, in theory, be using SI only. I am not goung to push that, all that I ask is that we use the units of measure as per the sources. Martinvl (talk) 12:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

@General: This edit is indicative that the editor in question has something to hide. Why else would he blank out the advice to editors who find th4emselves being harrassed from this address?

Martinvl (talk) 12:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

That edit was probably nothing more than a legitimate clearing of messages meant for previous users of that IP. Dynamic IPs are allocated randomly, so messages go out of date very quickly. Clearing them is good practice in my book. I fear mischievous motives or poor judgement led to those accusatory comments. 212.183.140.59 (talk) 14:19, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Even if I accept everything you say, what you quote is a clear attempt to game the system. The statement:

Under WP:MOSNUM, science-related topics should use SI-only and since Geography is a science... the should, in theory, be using SI only

is false. And given quite how much time you've spent dealing with this topic, including in discussion at WT:MOSNUM it is inconceivable that you did not and do not know that it is false. It is a clear attempt to, in the words of WP:GAME, force an untoward interpretation of policy, or impose one's own novel view of "standards to apply" rather than those of the community. And it is entirely typical of your editing style in the area of units of measure.

Note, incidentally, that when Martin refers to "changing all the units of measure of geographical-related sections", this refers to a revert of Martin's original edit to metricate the article (which moved the article from a WP:UNITS-preferred style to a less favoured style). My view is that Martin should have long-since been topic banned from all units of measure related to the UK - or at least the Falklands - because his total inability to deal with the subject neutrally has caused enormous damage to our coverage of the topic. In the Falklands sphere, I think it's fair to suggest that the damage done has been worse than everything that we have seen from Anglo-Argentine disputes put together. Kahastok talk 14:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• This content battle belongs on WP:LAME. Just have both SI and imperial units there, that's a good compromise and should keep everyone happy. Lukeno94 (talk) 16:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, we have a consensus compromise that all editors (including Martin) signed up to. If Martin would leave it be there would be no problem.

But my point isn't so much to bring up that dispute - I could have pointed out numerous other instances - it's to flag up the fact that this is an editor who routinely violates WP:GAME and it's unsurprising that he might have done so in this case. Kahastok talk 18:05, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Addbot

I think Addbot should be stopped and its recent edits reverted, see my three sections of today on User_talk:Addshore. Debresser (talk) 17:07, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Unless I'm misreading the timestamps, Addbot (talk · contribs) hasn't made any edits for more than two hours, and in particular not since your first problem report less than an hour ago, so a block may not be urgently indicated, and we might be able to give the bot operator a little time to respond. In the meantime, I realise you might be feeling frustrated by seeing automated changes that you disagree with, but you shouldn't be communicating here on Misplaced Pages with messages like your first one: "Please let me know what you plan to do about this, or I will have to report your bot." It's not collegial, and doesn't make the bot operator more likely to respond positively. Cheers, Bovlb (talk) 17:35, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree, that if the bot hasn't made any more edits like the ones I mentioned on his talkpage, and will not do so till those issues are properly addresses, then a block is not necessary.

The collegiality of my message is definitely higher than the comments I have received upon occasion on this very noticeboard, so let's not go there. In any case, I just meant to make clear that I consider the issues serious ones, and expect them to be addressed before returning to the order of the day. Debresser (talk) 18:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Do you know if the space addition is in favour or in contrary to AWB bots? -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:17, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge AWB doesn't do this in automated edits. I am an AWB user, but not the most experienced one. Debresser (talk) 19:18, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I have addressed all of the edits and questions you have raised on my talk page. I think bringing this to ANI may have been slightly excessive as the bot had indeed stopped editing after one issue was reported earlier today. I welcome everyone else to discuss all of the points raised on my talk page on my talk page. ·Add§hore· 19:23, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I propose to close this thread at this time, since the editor indeed addresses the issue on his talkpage. Which is not to say I agree with him, but there is fair discussion. Debresser (talk) 20:25, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Shankysupercool

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Shankysupercool (talk · contribs) was the subject of a sockpuppet investigation on 11 February 2013. The investigation alleged that the user was using four sockpuppet accounts to spam links to youthungama.org, a blog on Indian entertainment. All four admins participating in the investigation (Qwyrxian, Hu12, DeltaQuad, and Mailer diablo) endorsed the allegations, so the first two admins listed blocked the five accounts. Shankysupercool submitted an unblock request and within a few hours was unblocked by King of Hearts, who doubted the allegations of spamming and said that there was insufficient documentation for the sockpuppetry.

As Shankysupercool is resuming his attempts to add links to youthungama.org, I would appreciate it if some uninvolved admins could review the evidence and confirm whether Shankysupercool really was operating the sockpuppets. If so, he should be reblocked. —Psychonaut (talk) 18:58, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

As the sockpuppets were confirmed by two separate checkusers, a reblock is probably called for, documentation notwithstanding. —Rutebega (talk) 19:20, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Probably. I thought I'd raise the matter here, though, in order to prevent a wheel war. —Psychonaut (talk) 19:30, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I've reblocked the sockmaster; this was clearly a {{checkuser}} block but was not marked as such so no harm done by King of Hearts, who couldn't have known. — Coren  19:36, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

And on a similar note "Shankysupercool" is the owner and registrant of the website being sock spammed...--Hu12 (talk) 19:39, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

NPOV not being complied with; and unfair treatment of IP address user

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Hi,

Regarding the page Murder of Travis Alexander; the page states "murder" as a fact despite an ongoing trial that is trying to determine the circumstances surrounding the death. The accused admits killing the victim but maintains it was self defence. Since manslaughter is a probable outcome of the case; it is not NPOV to state "murder" as a fact at this time.

On the talk page we have been discussing this matter and the general consensus was up in the air but more were in favour of "death of..." than "murder of...". However, one user BabbaQ disagrees and has constantly been unable to support his position with any arguments besides saying that it should remain as "murder of.." because of a previous consensus.

He then contacted an Admin requesting that the page be semi-protected due to "IP addresses editing against consensus". The admin protected the page and I feel that this is unfair as it is just because I do not have a user account, as there is not an ongoing risk of vandalism by other ip addresses. The protection was wholly against me. I cannot see how having "murder of.." stated as a fact, and then going on to say that Jodi did kill him (which she admits doing) doesn't lead to the reader making the obvious conclusion that she murdered him. But this is not yet a fact as the trial is ongoing and Jodi maintains a position of self defence. Surely this is even a violation of "Biography of living person."

Anyway, I don't see why BabbaQ's position is favoured just because he has an account.

Thanks, 87.232.1.48 (talk) 21:22, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

• Your concerns appear to have been addressed with the move of the article to Killing of Travis Alexander. dci | TALK 21:30, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
• In all honesty, I think the unregistered editor has a point. The name he has suggested (arguments about how best to title the article precipitated the dispute) is likely more NPOV than either "murder" or "killing"; that said, both editors involved in the dispute could be told to cool things down. dci | TALK 21:33, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I think Killing of.. Is a good compromise. Even though I am of the opinion that heavy POV-pushing should not be encouraged. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:35, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

As a compromise, it probably works for the time being. dci | TALK 21:36, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, as I was trying to explain to the IP we should wait until the verdict and then we will know for sure. I am personally quite sure that a Murder of.. move will be made at that time. But until then Killing of.. is a good compromise.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:39, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, "killing of.." is much more accurate terminology. Thanks for your swift resolution, much appreciated! 87.232.1.48 (talk) 21:41, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

EDIT: of course BabbaQ it may very well be the outcome of the case, but we shouldn't write the article presuming a particular outcome and stating it as current fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.1.48 (talk) 21:42, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Just stop it now IP. It is over. And frankly I am not interested in your POV-pushing game. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:45, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Please stop accusing me of POV-pushing. You got the page protected to support your view and now that it has been rectified seem bitter. I was not POV-pushing, just didn't want a misleading title and you were equally determined of having "murder of.." remain despite consensus. Thankfully it has been resolved now, so please stop the personal attacks and lets move on. Have a good day, Yours 87.232.1.48 (talk) 21:58, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

But my point has always been that Death of.. is not the correct title either. Anyway problem solved. i personally think that when the verdict come a move to Murder of.. will most likely be made so Killing of is a great compromise until then. --BabbaQ (talk) 22:14, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I'd think "Death of..." would be better when the accused is not saying "I did it, but it was self-defense". Since he admits there was killing, that title should be suitably neutral, even after the conviction. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:16, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Again BabbaQ, although I agree you are probably right about the eventual outcome of the case, your prediction shouldn't mean the current article should contain information that is not currently true. Jodi still maintains self-defence.

• Also, can I make a request to have the page unprotected now? As I am still unable to edit. Thanks Admins, 87.232.1.48 (talk) 22:20, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Since the conflict about the name has been resolved and the article moved, to general agreement, I have unprotected. If there's any edit-warring, I'll reprotect. (Or perhaps you will, dear reader, as I will shortly be asleep.) Bishonen | talk 00:44, 17 February 2013 (UTC).

Edit filter gone awry, or just normal vandalism?

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Any opinion on Noahrolfe (talk · contribs)'s recent edits? Was he pasting in the blanking message himself, or was an edit filter triggering and messing up? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:13, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't see any way this edit filter could've behaved this way. I am highly inclined to believe the user copypasted the system message presented to him, as the text is the same. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 05:52, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I think it's just copy/pasting the system message. Looks like clear vandalism to me.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:12, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I would have assumed copy-and-pasting as well, if the 2nd and 3rd messages hadn't been tagged as "blanking". That's why I was confused. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 07:27, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, ok -- clicking through the "Tag" link showed me that is used if a substantial part of the article is blanked. That makes sense now. Thanks. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 07:31, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Repeated deliberate introduction of known false information into a BLP by Dervorguilla, continued after warning

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Dervorguilla (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) has thrice deliberately and knowingly introduced false information into Aaron Schwartz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) in order to deceive editors into !voting for its deletion in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Aaron Schwartz (2nd nomination).

• diff1
• diff2
• diff3

There is no doubt that this was done knowingly and intentionally, The editor has admitted it, as well as their motivation, here. Yworo (talk) 00:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

User Yworo’s allegation that User Dervorguilla introduced false information is denied. -- Dervorguilla (talk) 00:20, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about knowingly false, but I could go for careless. Even the most cursory looking on IMDB suggests that two different Aaron Schwartzes are being conflated here, not to mention that the younger Schwartz was sixteen when he was supposedly playing a forensic pathologist in Suspect, which is pretty implausible. Dervorguilla, you need to lay off this campaign. Mangoe (talk) 00:36, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I'd have gone for that the first time. But the third or fourth time? After different editors pointed out the issue repeatedly? I've blocked Dervorguilla for 24hrs - hopefully enough time for them to go and read what sources there are a bit better. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

You beat me to it; good block.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:47, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Boberta13531

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Reporting this racist comment. Appears to be a vandalism account. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 03:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Indef blocked by materialscientist; could an admin please revdel the edit, please? NE Ent 03:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Done. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 04:22, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Voortle

There's a herd of absurd redirects. Is it reasonable to nuke all the untouched ones? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 04:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Timestamps from 20:38, February 10, 2013 through 05:12, February 13, 2013 with the exception of South American English, which was further redirected by another user. The other ones which don't show (top) were redirected by a bot, as he chose a redirect to redirect the page to. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 04:43, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I agreed ... and nuked for ya (✉→BWilkins←✎) 12:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Repeated vandalism by IP at Ajativada

User:Aoclery has been blocked indef at 14 february 2013 for abuse of editing privileges ANI-report. Since then, three IP's have been used for personal attacks and vandalism:

• User:174.1.118.185 Personal attacks at NL Misplaced Pages: diff one day block
• User:32.60.67.185 Vandalism at Ajativada: diff
• User:64.66.16.87 Vandalism at Ajativada: diff diff

Action against these IP's, and protection of Ajativada would be welcome. Greetings, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:55, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism at Ajativada continues... Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Canoe1967

I'm not at all happy about doing this, but I feel it's necessary to report more continuing uncivil behavior by Canoe1967 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log), who just came off a 48-hour block earlier today. Please see this thread on admin Madman's talk page and take note not only of Canoe's inappropriate thread title, but also his ongoing rude and threatening comments towards Madman, who was nothing but nice to him. I feel that Canoe's refusal, or inability, to understand why his behavior is so disruptive will only guarantee that it will continue to happen. Every time he is out of line with another editor, he claims to believe that his actions are justified because he's "right" about the particular content issue. He just doesn't seem to get it at all that the problems he's been having with other editors have absolutely nothing to do with content issues, and everything to do with his poor behavior. What makes this so sad is that I considered Canoe a wikifriend and I went out of my way yesterday to help him during his block. Please read this thread from his talk page and I think it'll give you a great idea of why I'm so concerned that he's just totally missing the point of why he's had so many problems with other editors. But though his anger, I saw the good that he's done for Misplaced Pages and, without him knowing it, I wrote to the admin that blocked him and had this discussion with him. In my last comment to Canoe on his talk page yesterday, I suggested that he consider taking a wikibreak or possibly even retiring because I'm so concerned that his bad temper would not be good for his health or well being, or for this project. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 09:06, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I have stuck up for Canoe as he does do good work for the project and is helpful on BLPN, but frankly, if he wants the bot fixed he should roll up his sleeves and help fix it. Madman has gone beyond the call of duty, since he's volunteering to do this. I think most people, on receipt of an apology regarding a false positive, will take it in the intended spirit. Alternatively, we could shut off ClueBotNG until its false positive rate is thoroughly tested to be 0, while vandalism skyrockets. Ritchie333 09:26, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Ritchie. While I'm sure the bot issue is important (I know nothing about bots haha), I'm more concerned with the way Canoe treats others. Especially when it's completely unprovoked, as in this case. On the help desk thread that triggered this situation, Canoe said, "The bot operator is very lucky I just got off a block for civility BS or my comment on her talk page would be far harsher." This really needs to stop. Thanks for your input. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 09:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Previous ANI discussion from 3 days ago which resulted in a 48 hour block can be found here. GiantSnowman 10:57, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• The commentary by Canoe1967 at User talk:Madman#Your bot sucks the big one! is outrageouos. Also, at WP:Help desk#why has mad bot deleted my article, the commentary is extremely unhelpful ("The bot operator is very lucky I just got off a block for civility BS or my comment on her talk page would be far harsher" diff). Madman's replies are a model that all editors should strive to follow. It is beyond me how someone can handle difficult programming problems while dealing with such obviously misguided ranting (Canoe1967 failed to even provide a clue concerning the problem—that had to be added by another user). I don't know what it would take to prevent similar rants in the future, but assuming the recent discussions regarding the user revealed a substantial problem, my recommendation is an indefinite block. We either support people (like Madman) who are doing valuable work, or we promote disruption in the hope that collaborative behavior might magically awaken in Canoe1967. Johnuniq (talk) 11:00, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
• To come from a 48 hour civility block (very lenient in my opinion) and go straight into that shows that Canoe1967 clearly does not have the correct attitude to edit here constructively. There ia a long-established pattern of incivility here, and it does not make for a collaborative project. The irony of their "What part of being civil don't you understand?" comment made me chuckle. I'm edging towards supporting an indef, but if others can provide evidence to the contrary then I am willing to change my mind. GiantSnowman 11:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

As is often parroted, blocks are preventative and since the previous block prevented nothing, there's no reason not to escalate the block duration. Blackmane (talk) 12:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• At first glance, I'm not impressed by the Canoe's actions. However, I would like to see their response either here OR on their talkpage (where I'm certain someone must have tried to resolve this issue before bringing it to ANI) (✉→BWilkins←✎) 12:47, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
• I can't believe this crap. An editor loses a grandfather, wikipedia deletes the article on him, and then a bot comes along and accuses him of breaking copyright laws. Another editor then gives them a big lecture about COI on a deleted article?. At least re-word the bot message so it makes sense to new editors that may not understand a message the size of a small book on their talk page. "This is an automated message from software named "MadBot" that detects copyright errors. It has noticed that Article Y is very close to Website X. This bot has been known to use legal threats of plagiarism and copyright violation after making mistakes with an article on an editor's recently deceased relative. If this is the case then ignore or remove this message and either vent your frustrations at help desk or leave wikipedia forever."--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:06, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• As much sympathy as I have for your loss, it is not Misplaced Pages's fault, nor any of us editors' fault. Your grandfather, however great he may have been, was not notable enough for Misplaced Pages, and all we've seen are Misplaced Pages editors following rules correctly. You cannot blame a bot for doing what it was programmed - correctly - to do. Also, writing a personal attack against a bot is not going to help your cause. Lukeno94 (talk) 16:40, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• While I'm glad to see that Canoe has replied, it's sad to see that has reacted in the same way he did to the block he just came off of yesterday - completely refusing to acknowledge any of his bad behavior and instead blaming everyone else. It's the exact same pattern; he justifies his hostile, unprovoked treatment of other editors' by what he alleges are their content or other non-behavior-related mistakes. And just to be clear, we have no information whatsoever that says anyone's grandfather died. The help desk thread that preceded Canoe's angry comments was started by another editor, Thorp12, who said that he created an article for his great grandfather. Although irrelevant to this matter, Thorp never said a word about the man dying or, more to the point, recently dying as Canoe is falsely trying to imply. For all we know, the man could've died decades ago or perhaps is still alive. (I never saw the article, so I don't know.) This false "editor loses a grandfather" reference is simply a distraction from the real issue: Canoe's behavior. This has nothing to do with an editor's anger over his article being deleted, the editor being educated on COI guidelines (which was applicable and proper), or any alleged deficiencies with a bot. Through his entire block the past few days, and during this situation, we have yet to see Canoe even come close to acknowledging or even understanding what he's done wrong. This is the real problem that needs to be addressed. As I said to Canoe on his talk page during his block, "You'll never, ever be able to control the behavior of others. You can only control what you do." In his response, he said, "I beg to differ" and "Misplaced Pages is a battleground for far too many editors. If the just ones show weakness or walk away then ignorance and arrogance will win out." I said to him, "Civility ≠ weakness, my friend." --76.189.111.199 (talk) 18:20, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The "grandfather" died in 1911 (✉→BWilkins←✎) 18:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for checking! I assumed it was many years ago. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 18:49, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• Considering he's just come off a two day block, I'd support a week long block for disruptive behavior/incivility. In my experience with him in the past, I've seen some behavior that irked me, but nothing I considered disruptive before. I've also seen good contributions from him, so I don't think escalating to an indef block, as supported by GiantSnowman and Johnuniq above, would be beneficial for the project. Continue with a normal level of escalation to see if we can modify his behavior rather than forcing him out. Ryan Vesey 18:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
• BWilkins, I meant to address your comment initially. Sorry about that; I'll do it now. You inquired about whether there was an attempt to resolve this issue with Canoe before coming here. If you look at the discussion on Madman's talk page, you'll see that after Canoe posted the "Your bot sucks the big one!" heading and then his first comment, Madman said in his reply, "please feel free to keep your feedback more civil in the future". Canoe, even though he was always spoken to in a completely respectful manner, then had to be repeatedly addressed in the thread about his incivility, and was advised to apologize. He didn't stop and he didn't apologize. He even followed-up with this threatening and ironically rude comment to Madman: "Are you going to shut it down until you fix it?...Either shut it down until proven as fixed or I bring it up at ANI and the bureaucrat talk page that approved it. What part of being civil don't you understand?" And it's important to remember that all this happened only hours after Canoe returned from a two-day block for the same type of behavior. The frustrating part about this for me is that I know how passionate Canoe is about editing. But I also see how his bad temper negatively outweighs that passion. He irrationally believes that his mistreatment of others is not only justified, but necessary, in order to maintain the project's integrity, which is why he is unable to see his behavior as inappropriate or harmful. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 18:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
• I do apologize if my actions seem uncivil. I think you are all failng to see my point. Our treatment of new editors and BLP requests is simply atrocious and they should be treated with far more civility than they have been. Recently with Jan Mak and Henry E. Emerson. Mr. Mak requested a correction to an unsourced birthdate in his article. I corrected it assuming that he as a source was better than no source. A friend of Gen. Emerson's was very upset that we falsely claimed that he had died while he is still very much alive. That editor was very upset at his treatment and the project will probably not recieve anymore input from him although he is very qualified to vastly improve articles. I was also accused of writing my own biography with Ed Miracle. This did not bother me in the least and left a message on the accuser's talk page to that effect. That new editor was treated badly in my opinion as well. These are just recent issues and I won't list the numerous others I have come accross in my short time here but I will if requested and put the list in my userspace with a link. I did not claim this one was a recent death but the bot could easily upset a grieving family that copy/pastes material that is copyrighted. I still feel the bot message could be better written and show a little more respect. I am also curious if it is normal procedure to have other editors comment in this section that are not involved with this issue. IMHO that is just vindictave wikistalking because they have lost discussions with me and others after being very rude, ignorant, and arrogant to push their POV.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:28, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• I'm all in favor of correcting birth dates. The IP should have been pointed to OTRS and if they can verify who they are the birth date should be changed (I think by policy currently the incorrect information would be removed, but correct information would not be added which is unintelligent). I could, as an IP, state that I'm the son of Johnny Olson and I want his birth date changed. I know nothing about Johnny Olson's birth date, and changing it on my word (I'm not his son) would cause damage to the encyclopedia. Ryan Vesey

I agree that Mr. Mak's article was handled badly by myself and others. I decided to walk away from that dispute because it seems to be de-grading into a battle of whose source is best. In the meantime it was suggested that the date be left out until consensus is reached which doesn't seem to be the case. Mr. Mak probably doesn't mind that we are working on sourcing dates and at least the year he claims is in the article now as well as another. I assumed good faith that it is he because the IP only made the one edit to point out the error. I can't see a vandal or prankster having any reason to request such a trivial change. I had a similar issue with John Weaver (artist). A friend that was helping with the article through email notified me that he had passed. I phoned his local paper to see if they had an obit, they weren't aware that he had passed and were thankful that I had informed them. It still took more than a month before they had a source online to use in the article. That issue was handled correctly IMO without upsetting relatives, friends, and editors, etc. Some people do lose out on their requests as was the case when Mitch Gaylord wanted his article edited at the help desk. He was rather upset as well but I think he agrees that the version we have now is acceptable.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:58, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• Yet again, Canoe is completely deflecting this issue about his own poor behavior on to other editors and issues. What happened with the Mak, Emerson, and other articles is completely irrelevant to why we are here. It's all a diversion. Canoe still apparently does not get it; that this is a behavior issue and not a content one. However, this admission from Canoe, as Ryan alluded to, is worrisome: "Mr. Mak requested a correction to an unsourced birthdate in his article. I corrected it assuming that he as a source was better than no source." Let's be clear, there was absolutely no evidence that the IP editor was in fact Mak; he simply claimed to be Mak. So Canoe needs to stop repeatedly referring to the anonymous editor as "Mr. Mak". And to the guy claiming to be Mitch Gaylord as Mitch Gaylord. Second, an editor should never change vital content like someone's date of birth in a BLP based solely on someone's word. We make edits based on reliable sources. And, no, an anonymous IP editor is not better than no source. They're equally inadequate. Making Canoe's edit even more perplexing is the fact that he did it shortly after the Emerson issue, in which terribly-sourced birth and death info was added, prompting Canoe to ream out several editors who were involved in the improper editing. In any case, yes, there were editing mistakes made in some articles, but Canoe is doing precisely what I stated previously in this discussion: justifying his mistreatment of others because he feels it is necessary to maintain's this project's integrity. I'm sorry, but his thinking on this is just plain wrong. We can, and must, solve content (and bot) problems without being hostile and threatening to other editors, especially when there's no provocation for it. For the record, both the Mak and Emerson article issues were subsequently resolved through proper discussion, and the editor who objected to the Emerson content actually returned to participate in the article and provide sourced information. Canoe said, "I do apologize if my actions seem uncivil". The reality is that they don't seem uncivil; they are uncivil. I find it surprisingly ironic that Canoe talks about how other editors "should be treated with far more civility than they have been", yet he has consistently done just the opposite. This ongoing "blame everyone else" strategy is a very good indication that this problem is not going to stop. I'm not sure what the best way to resolve this matter is, which is why I haven't made any specific recommendations. I'd rather leave that to editors who are far more experienced than me and can therefore best decide what's most appropriate. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 21:01, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
• I agree that the bot message could be better written; it has a number of shortcomings that I think are systemic to templated messages on Misplaced Pages. When Coren was maintaining the code, a couple staffers at the WMF worked with him to A/B test different kinds of warnings (personalizing as much as possible, emphasizing actions, making sure to include a thank you, etc.). Unfortunately CorenSearchBot went offline halfway through the testing, making results inconclusive.

But MadmanBot's still using the same code, testing the different "tones" and adapting the warnings for inexperienced and more experienced contributors. This conversation has reminded me to talk to Maryana and Steven about pursuing further testing if possible and doing the data analysis that will hopefully result in improvements in communication and retention of contributors.

No hard feelings about anything on my talk page last night. These are the sorts of conversations that, regardless of how you got involved as a third party and whatever the tack you may have initially taken, can change the project when pursued constructively. I hope if we do pursue further testing that we will have the benefit of your feedback. Thanks, — madman 21:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• Madman, I was thoroughly impressed by your calm, friendly professionalism in light of how you were being treated last night. The discussion on your talk page was merely the conduit through which the behavior problem (our reason for being here) occurred. Thanks for your hard work on that bot. --76.189.111.199 (talk) 21:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you as well Madman. I would also like to apologize for my un-civil actions. I will be more civil from now on. This has reminded me of a talk we had from our General once. I won't repeat it here, but I did quote him to another editor on my talk page.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Echigo mole trolling about Dougweller acting as a "meatpuppet" being enabled by a disruptive IP hopper

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• 111.161.30.218 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• IP range: 101.0.71.0/24

Echigo mole has used what appears to be an open proxy IP from China to troll on a user talk page. The first IP 111 was reported at SPI by ArtifexMayhem, who at first had guessed it might be Mikemikev and then by me at WikiProject Open Proxies. I left a commentary at ArtifexMayhem's SPI report, tagging User:111.161.30.218 as recommended by CU Deskana. Please could the ipsock be blocked, regardless of the delay in completing the proxy check?

Johnuniq left a message that the edit by 111 should be removed as an obvious posting by a banned editor, the type of edit precisely covered by a motion of arbcom relating to WP:ARBR&I. In the meantime the IP hopper in the range above responded to Echigo mole's post, despite the advice offered by Johnuniq. They are the only person making use of that narrow range 101.0.71.0/24 at the moment. The IP hopper repeated Echigo mole's trolling suggestion that Dougweller (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) was engaged in meatpuppetry. Some time later, I redacted 111's comment and in addition further clarified the arbcom motion concerning such posts, in particular requesting that the post should not be restored or the disruptive trolling acted upon. The tag I placed on User:111.161.30.218 was then removed by the IP hopper 101. He then restored the redacted edit of Echigo mole ignoring the advice he had been offered by Johnuniq and me. Finally he posted a comment on User talk:Dougweller, directly addressing the trolling questions of Echigo mole to Dougweller.

The IP hopper has been asked by multiple users to register an account, but so far has not done so. In this case their IP hopping is a way of evading scrutiny, in particular with regard to the arbcom motion. The user of the range is gaming the system to avoid being sanctioned for their obvious disruption. Accusing Dougweller in this manner is just an unsubstantiated personal attack. Perhaps the narrow range could be blocked until the unique person behind it makes a commitment to edit in a less disruptive way. Mathsci (talk) 11:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I've informed Johnuniq and Dougweller of this report. I have no easy way of informing the IP hopper. Mathsci (talk) 12:01, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

This is all a bit odd. At User talk:BlackHades the IP says "One cannot help but wonder, given Dougweller's ideas are not founded in an arbitration ruling, where did they originate? Perhaps the answer lies with his little Freudian slip in the edit summary here." Besides the fact that my comments, right or wrong, on proxy editing were an afterthought after my post on sock puppets, I am definitely not a sock or the puppetmaster of User:Guettarda who actually made the edit. I'd better go tell him about this now. Dougweller (talk) 12:13, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The suspicion (well, my suspicion, I don't know about the other IP's) is that your and/or Guettarda's involvement in the article talk page was canvassed privately by Mathsci, and this was the reason for your repeating of Mathsci's interpretation of the arbitration ruling, and perhaps also for Guettarda's accidental mention of Mathsci in his edit summary. I must say, Mathsci's immediately showing up and posting this thread to defend you seems supportive of the same idea. It would be a very strange coincidence if this weren't the case. If it's the case it would not necessarily be meatpuppetry, but it would be stealth canvassing. I don't claim that's the only possible explanation, but it would be helpful if you were to answer my question from BlackHades' user talk. If your familiarity with this article's history is only from watching it as you said, I would like to know how that resulted in your posting one editor's interpretation of an arbitration ruling which did not receive much support from arbitrators, rather than the actual ruling. 101.0.71.20 (talk) 13:00, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I suppose in addition to the question above, I should ask you directly: was your participation in the article or talk page privately solicited by Mathsci? You haven't given me any reason to believe you're dishonest, so I should give you the opportunity to tell the truth before trying to argue with you. 101.0.71.12 (talk) 13:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

58.173.108.6

This IP address is being used by a user who some of us believe to be a long-known editor called Ali Muratovic per Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Ali Muratovic/Archive. He's apparently some sort of a Bosnian nationalist who also has a distinct hate for red links (!) and tends to be generally deletionionist. We've had him blocked him several times in the past, and every time he just comes back and continues unabated. No discussion, no nothing. He makes some amount of useful copyedits, and generally the edits are small and in largely obscure Balkan topics, so it's easy for them to stay under the typical watcher's radar. But the content of the edits is largely useless and should often be reverted as WP:ARBMAC violations, particularly on BLPs. Overall, it makes for a lot of work for everyone else, and there's no particularly obvious reason to expect them to reform. As I asked at SPI in September last year, should we employ harsher measures? --Joy (talk) 11:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Looking at the SPI archive and the contributions of 58.173.108.6 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), it does seem likely that the IP is a sock of Ali Muratovic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), That, and the pattern of partially dubious edits (including random removals of potentially useful red links) with no edit summary and no attempt of engaging in any discussion, makes me think that a longterm block or ban might be appropriate, at least until the user begins talking to us. I've at any rate issued an ARBMAC warning.  Sandstein  13:13, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Agree. Obvious block evasion needs to be dealt with. RashersTierney (talk) 13:29, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The suspected sockpuppet category for Ali Muratovic already includes several IPs from 58.173.*, and the behavior is similar. This IP is just returning after a three-month block that ended February 16, and has already made more than 100 edits, none of them to talk pages. There is no sign of any reform. I'd support a further block of one year. EdJohnston (talk) 18:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

BTW, regarding that SPI - my rationale there is the same as I explained in the case of "Velebit". In that case, splitting contribution history over a bunch of IP addresses over a long period was ultimately shown to be intentionally malicious. In this case I'm not sure if it's being done on purpose, but the end result is still a clear pattern of utter disregard for the normal editorial process. Heck, in this case I'm not even sure the editor has mastered the basic techniques of sockpuppetry. Their confirmed sockpuppets were really low hanging fruit for anyone who speaks the slightest bit of Bosnian - the names follow a trivial pattern. --Joy (talk) 22:40, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

2013 meat adulteration scandal

Could somebody please have a look here? It is starting to look very close to edit warring. And the Talk Page has become quite muddled. Maybe some kind of temporary article protection is called for ? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The Talk Page is now beginning to resemble a war of slogans. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for now protecting. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Refactored from close statement The page has now been semi-protected for a couple of weeks by Ruslik0. -- Dianna (talk) 18:24, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The typical useless measure ANI produces. The actual problems were caused by a registered editor. The edit war between that guy and Martinevans123 continues in fact . 5.12.84.153 (talk) 19:52, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

True that. Recommend an admin full protect wrong version. NE Ent 22:00, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

So, my one revert at that page is now "the edit war", yes? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:05, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Your oblique points above seem to describe his editing e.g., this gem: "In Britain, if you put meat in a pan, maybe with a little oil or fat, it gives off lots of water when heated, and cannot be fried." That people like that are allowed to make tons of edits on Misplaced Pages only speaks to the value of registered editors... 5.12.84.153 (talk) 22:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

At last, we have found a use for ANI. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Thargor Orlando's wholesale removal of sources

User: Thargor Orlando has been systematically removing Media Matters of America as a source from a wide variety of articles using the edit summary "updating ref". In some cases he/she has attempted to "replace" the Media Matters URL with the same news content such as this edit where he/she linked to a local newspaper's pay wall web page. In other cases the removal of the Media Matters content left a malformed and incomplete ref such as this edit. Looking at Thargor's contrib list I count 35+ removals of Media Matters as a source just over the past 3-4 days. I think that Thargor is a good editor and has undertaken this activity in a good faith effort to improve the project and he/she has shown a willingness to discuss their work on his/her talk page here and here. But I don't think the discussion is going anywhere despite three editors expressing their concerns about his/her edits in regard to Media Matters. For myself I know in the past that the wholesale removal of a controversial source can sometimes be seen by the community as disruptive and I'd like for the community to discuss this behavior here and give Thargor some guidance on how to proceed so that he/she does not inadvertently get themselves into trouble hundreds of edits later. So to summarize, this is discussion is not about the validity of Media Matters as a source (that would be RSN or the article talk page) but rather a behavior that results in the wholesale removal of a controversial source, without discussion, in a way that is covert and often degrades the current citation and hence the article. Cheers!-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:12, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I do not consider this a completely accurate positioning of what's happening, but there is no "wholesale removal of sources" in most cases, but a replacement of partisan sources with more neutral ones; the only exception has been in some instances where the MMfA link is a functional duplicate source (i.e., MMfA cites one article or program, and that article or program is already cited). With few exceptions, it has been very uncontroversial, and in the areas that it has been questioned discussion is ongoing and is, in fact, going somewhere. My intention has been to cover other partisan sources as well, my edits are admittedly bold with the knowledge that not every change needs to be discussed, after all. and well within content, sourcing, and verifability guidelines. My intention is to move to other sources as I finish with this one (WorldNetDaily, NewsMax, Truthout, etc.), and I welcome any questions that come along at the relevant talk pages. Thargor Orlando (talk) 15:34, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

the edits look a bit tame to me? the second edit is simply citing the show of the person the quote was attributed, thus removing an unnecessary layer. nothing from the media matters article was even in the edit cited, just the quote. Darkstar1st (talk) 15:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Compromised user account used for vandalism?

I've just encountered this subtle piece of vandalism (since reverted) by a user called If5tatement (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). However, that user name shouldn't be active; it's the former name of Glorioski (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Glorioski has also been inactive since last August. Could this be a compromised account? I'm not sure how to proceed. — Hex (❝?!❞) 15:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Given that Glorioski has been inactive since August, I would venture to guess that the user probably forgot his login info for that account and logged into his old account instead. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be blocked, but I'm not convinced the account's compromised. Rutebega (talk) 16:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

That's the funniest vandalism that I've ever seen. But obviously it was wrong. Terribly, terribly wrong. I'd warn the user and ignore it unless he repeats the offense. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Internet is serious business!  ;-) TCO (talk) 20:20, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Removing sourced content

Hello,

I recently added two sections to the article Nabih Berri. User:Samar Layoun, who may also be User:MariaFrangieh, just deleted that information using two accounts. From what I understand, the same user is not allowed to use two accounts on one article, as if to make it look as two different people, and they're certainly not allowed to delete referenced information.

Thanks, Argo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Argo333 (talk • contribs) 16:08, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Jesus Resurrected (Unfortunately)

I am again being accused of vandalism for no good reason, and having edits reverted. I am curious about something. Is it likely impossible to have an objective, secular version of the Jesus article, because the article is closely watched by Christian editors whose passion (zealotry?) and number are high? At the moment, text has been added with 7 sources, and the editor who added seems to be admitting that he hasn't actually read the sources (not clear on that). The text consists of classifying certain arguments as argument from silence, although none of the sources seem to actually do that. Rather the editor in question (History2007) has researched the arguments (presumably, although it also seems he hasn't read the sources) and decided they are that type of argument. Isn't that OR?

Anyway, I am getting tired of this. History2007 also added a modern translation of a text from the year 1103, and tried to pass it off as a modern source . I deleted that and he had a cow . He doesn't seem to realize that Yifa is a translator, not an author, and the text in question is not about historical method and is almost 1000 years old. He is constantly adding sources he hasn't read.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Jesus#Disruptive_edit_to_introduction Humanpublic (talk) 16:26, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Also, the editor from my previous complaint (with the impossible-to-remember name), Seb-something, stalked me to another Jesus related article and reverted me there as well. Humanpublic (talk) 16:28, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The Talk does appear to be mildly tendentious. Either way, 'the' Church is shown itself to be perfectly capable of self-advertising over the last 2,000 years and needs no help from Editors... Basket _Feudalist 16:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

This is a prime case of where the accuser should be the accused. Several users have already suggested that Humanpublic should be topic banned from articles related to Jesus. A look at the talk page (and the archives) shows Humanpublic's record. In the last 24 hours, Humanpublic has repeatedly deleted sourced content he doesn't like , , , , in addition to deleting comments on talk pages . Given all those deletions of sourced content, and with no consensus whatsoever, I'd say that there is "good reason" to accuse Humanpublic of vandalism, as three different editors have already done in the last hour , , . When a fourth and a fifth editor suggest a topic ban , I find it quite relevant as the edit history of Humanpublic shows that this is a WP:SPA for the purpose of imposing a POV at Jesus (and the related articles Christ myth theory and Argument from silence) . Last but not least, the favorite accusation Humanpublic makes, that he is a secular editor facing "zealous Christians" is quite simply wrong. I do not believe in the Jesus of the gospels myself. Two of the best known critics of the "Christian Jesus" is the atheist professor Bart Ehrman and the Jewish professor Geza Vermes. We use both of them in the article; both of them state categorically that Jesus existed, as does all other scholars in the field regardless of their religion.Jeppiz (talk) 16:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Just because content carries a citation doesn't mean it's appropriate to put in an encyclopedia article. In at least one of the edits you list, Humanpublic is removing a "sourced" claim because he alleges that the source doesn't actually support the claim. In another he removes the claim because he argues that it's a non sequitur in the context of the article. In yet another he argues that the text is being used to support some synthesis. Provided his allegations are correct, these are all perfectly valid reasons for removing sourced text and are certainly not WP:IDONTLIKEIT as you claim. —Psychonaut (talk) 18:06, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, a source is not automatically a reliable one. Basket _Feudalist 18:09, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Yep. Have either of these editors discussed these arguments on the respective article talk pages? The "source doesn't support the claim" one in particular should be very easy to test, and the onus for doing so is on whoever added the content. —Psychonaut (talk) 18:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

And congratulations on Psychonaut for hitting the nub there: Talk:Argument from silence was last edited... 7th April 2011...!!! Basket _Feudalist 18:19, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The OP here looks like a single-purpose account with an agenda. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:17, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Pscyhonaut and Basket, a source is not automatically suited. Then Humanpublic could perhaps assume good faith and discuss the issue at the talk page instead of edit warring over it? As for discussing, I already referred both to Humanpublics edit record and to the talk page (including the archives, far too many diffs to make a list) where several users have pointed out for months that Humanpublic does not WP:HEAR arguments. As Basebnall Bugs states above, Humanpublic is a single-purpose account with an agenda, the agenda being to advance the fringe theory that Jesus never existed. There is not one professor in any relevant field, no matter if they are Christians, atheists or Jews, who support that fringe theory, making it WP:UNDUE. I agree when Humanpublic says the article Jesus should be a secular article, and that means respecting the academic expertise, especially when that expertise is unanimous. There are countless examples of where the secular view contradicts Christian beliefs (most scholars agree Jesus did not claim to be God or think he was God; most scholars think a number of accounts in the New Testament were forged; many scholars think Jesus was a religious Jew all his life; many scholars think Christianity was the invention of Paul decades after Jesus's death). We should take into account all such theories, and present different views on the many questions where there are different views. The topic of Jesus's existence quite simply isn't one of those questions. Since September 2012, Humanpublic has used the talkpage to challenge Jesus's existence. Since September 2012, Humanpublic has been asked to provide an academic source that doubts Jesus's existence. And since September 2012, Humanpublic has failed to provide a single source, instead he has just continued his crusade to impose this fringe theory on the article. That is the single purpose of his account, it is disruptive, and it makes working on the article a lot harder than it should be.Jeppiz (talk) 18:54, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Suggesting a topic ban for Humanpublic

In line with In ictu oculi and ReformedArsenal , I suggest that Humanpublic be topic-banned from articles related to Jesus. As pointed out by Baseball Bugs , Humanpublic is "a single-purpose account with an agenda".
Since September, Humanpublic repeatedly engages in endless discussions on the talk page of Jesus to deny that Jesus existed. That was perfectly valid as first, but it has long since passed into disruptive behavior. As has been pointed out to Humanpublic time and time again by countless users, there is not one professor in any relevant field supporting that fringe theory, making it WP:UNDUE.Of course the article should be secular, and that means respecting the academic expertise, especially when that expertise is unanimous. There are countless examples of where the secular view contradicts Christian beliefs and we take into account all such theories, and present different views on the many questions where there are different views. The topic of Jesus's existence quite simply isn't one of those questions. Since September 2012, Humanpublic has used the talkpage to challenge Jesus's existence. Since September 2012, Humanpublic has been asked to provide an academic source that doubts Jesus's existence. And since September 2012, Humanpublic has failed to provide a single source, instead he has just continued his crusade to impose this fringe theory on the article. That is the single purpose of his account, it is disruptive, and it makes working on the article a lot harder than it should be. When a user just continues to challenge other users, refusing to WP:HEAR counter-arguments, never once bothering with a source but only to present his own opinions, it violates WP:NOTAFORUM. After five months of this, it certainly disrupts the article quite severly. A quick look at the talk page of Jesus is enough to see that most of the discussions are about Humanpublic, not about how to improve Jesus.Jeppiz (talk) 19:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

" Humanpublic repeatedly engages in endless discussions on the talk page of Jesus to deny that Jesus existed." Hmm, I don't think I have ever denied Jesus existed. Not sure. Humanpublic (talk) 23:41, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. We do not ban users just because they come to Misplaced Pages for a single purpose. We do ban them for being persistently uncooperative to the point of disruption, but I don't see that there have been sufficient prior attempts at dispute resolution. There was one 3RR report which seemingly didn't go anywhere, and for at least one of the issues Jeppiz is complaining about there was no attempt whatsoever to engage with the user on the article talk page. —Psychonaut (talk) 19:34, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Comment Please don't misrepresent what I wrote. I certainly did not suggest topic-banning Humanpublic for being here for a single purpose; I (like two other users today) suggested topic-banning him because he goes about that purpose in a highly disruptive way. He has singlehandedly turned the talk page about Jesus into a WP:FORUM where he refuses to WP:HEAR any counter arguments and continues to push a fringe-theory despite not having presented a single source for it. For five months. That is disruptive and detrimental to the article, and that is the reason a topic-ban is suggested.Jeppiz (talk) 19:40, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

How am I misrepresenting what you wrote? You said that he should be topic banned, and started off by noting that he was "a single-purpose account with an agenda". If this claim is not relevant to your proposal, then why did you mention it? Your argument also rests on the disruption he's caused, and my !vote addressed that issue as well. —Psychonaut (talk) 19:45, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Fair point. I guess the question is what we mean by disruption. Can a user by disruptive just on talk pages, or does it have to take edit warring over articles? Looking at the talk page of Jesus, I would say it's clear that the actions of Humanpublic disrupts work on the whole article. Anyone can at time pose irrelevant questions, but when the same user does it for five months, is informed about it by countless users, and still goes on and on in the same track, I think it's a disruption of WP:NOTAFORUM. I think it's clear to anyone having a look at Talk:Jesus that Humanpublic has succeeded in turning the page into a forum. If he had a valid point backed up by sources, it would be a content dispute and not a problem. When he spends months pushing a fringe theory without bothering with presenting even one source but only his personal opinions (and the same opinions over and over again), I do think it's disruptive and I have seen first-hand how he has stalled any work on the actual article. If you don't agree that such behavior is disruptive, I fully respect that view.Jeppiz (talk) 19:54, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• Naw, we can handle the user w/o that. If it gets any worse, then yeah... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 20:59, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - There are some problems here, as I see it. On first glance (this is the first time I have looked at this article and talk page) I see why the issue has been brought here by parties on both sides of the fence. One thing I can't help notice on the talk page is the confrontational polemics of HiLo48, the subject of several correctional sanctions. But here's where it get complicated. Humanpublic and HiLo48 raise an interesting point in that the editing of the article appears to be POV material from those of the Christian faith, and call into question the sourcing of Jesus' existence. Highly controversial! But, is that a "disruption?" While I am unfamiliar with Humanpublic, HiLo48 often uses rhetoric that usually "stirs the pot." Yet, here again, there are some larger NPOV issues now on the line for this flagship Misplaced Pages article. I am unwilling to take a stand without further study of exactly what the stakes are. And I suggest others here do the same. Jusdafax 23:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

This is a fine spirit of collaboration: "get over yourself; I can revert whatever I want as long as there's good reason to do so. Further posts by you to my talkpage will be considered harassment and reverted as vandalism. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556"

I would love to not be an "spa". I registered on Misplaced Pages intending to edit literature articles. My interest in the Bible comes from a Bible as Literature class I took. I have added two sentences to the article Jesus. It is a purely factual edit, reliably sourced. It has nothing to do with any theory, fringe or otherwise. It is: "There’s no physical or archaeological evidence that Jesus existed, nor are there any writings from Jesus. There are no sources from the time Jesus is alleged to have lived that mention him. " THat's it. It is reliably sourced, and only makes factual claims. In Talk, I've pointed out that there are no secular historians as sources, that sources mostly have a Christian background and/or write popular books, and that Christian popular books aren't objective about Jesus. That is not a fringe theory either. To me, it's just a concern about conflict of interest.

The result has been that my comments have been edit-warred off the Talk page, my attempts to preserve my comments have been called vandalism, I've been reported for "3RR" for not wanting active discussions archived, accused of disruption, been followed to another article by Seb for the sole purpose f reverting my edit, and been nominated to be banned from the articles.

If my edits to The House of Mirth had the same response, I would appear to be a Edith Wharton "spa." This is not my only interest. It is my only controversial interest. People should quit attacking and belittling by the dozens at the mere suggestion that there could conflicts of interest, or the mere addition two sentences that are not pro-Jesus. If I didn't get bombarded by dozens of attacks and personal comments with every edit, I would be spending more time on other subjects. Humanpublic (talk) 23:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

WP:GB guidance

I've been away for quite a while and am a little rusty with the tools. What are our current WP:GB guidelines? Does anyone think one might be warranted here? The global contributions are not encouraging at all. TIA, Fvasconcellos (t·c) 18:20, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

History merge request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This is a simple request for an admin to merge the history of two articles, a new one in mainspace and an old one that was userfied: Jerry Harvey (inventor) and User:Binksternet/Harvey.

Afterward, please delete User:Binksternet/Harvey.

Thanks in advance! Binksternet (talk) 20:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Legal threat from User:Juniorjackjlc

Most recent in a long series of obvious single-purpose accounts which immediately (and only) edit Susan L. Burke has made an apparent legal threat:

• "I will be asking Misplaced Pages's brick-and-mortar legal department if they approve of the way you've slandered and harassed your fellow editors." diff.

I had opened SPI (somehow missing the previous report due to a typo I guess) just before this comment was made but didn't have a chance to inform them about it. Yworo (talk) 22:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• I'd say that's a clear intent to cause a chilling effect and a NLT violation. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
• Blatant legal threat. He says it's his last edit here. Suggest he be held to that promise. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• I came across the edits at the Burke article, and though suspicious, wasn't fully aware of the quacking history. Thanks for following up. 99.136.254.88 (talk) 22:40, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• My pleasure. Yworo (talk) 22:42, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

1. "Profile : Cleo Rocos". Hello! Magazine. Retrieved 9 January 2013.