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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Gatoclass (talk | contribs) at 17:06, 8 March 2013 (→Result concerning Fyunck(click): reply sandstein). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by POVbrigand

Fyunck(click)

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Fyunck(click)

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 19:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Fyunck(click) (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#All parties reminded and Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 6 March 2013 Re-re-re-pushing an anti-diacritics agenda yet again, at WT:AT, with comment difficult to interpret except as jingoistic attack on non-native English speakers categorically, a WP:ARBATC violation.
2. 1 March 2012 again categorically hostile toward non-native English speakers. Personalization of style/title disputes, including unsupported accusations of WP:TAGTEAMing by Swedish editors generallyl.
3. My-way-or-the-highway statement the same day regarding his interpretation of policy as anti-diacritics.
4. Another "personalizing" edit that same day, against an admin critical of anti-diacritics campaigning.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Not required, since WT:AT has a prominent WP:ARBATC warning atop it. But has been warned anyway:
2. Warned on 16 November 2012 by HandsomeFella (talk · contribs) for editwarring about diacritics. Fyunck(click) reacted with noted hostility.
3. Effectively warned on in November 2012 by being mentioned at and participating in a WP:ANI report against someone else topic-banned for diacritics editwarring.
4. August 2012 warning, ignored, about bucking consensus in a diacritics-related WP:RM.
5. Blocked in July 2012 for editwarring over diacritics. Etc., etc.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The statement at issue is: "The only place I've seen huge amounts of diacritics is here on wikipedia, but with so many non-English-first editors these days that shift is to be expected." It seems to be a violation of WP:ARBATC's "personalizing style or title disputes" prohibition. While it could theoretically be interpreted as a poorly worded concession that Fyunck(click) recognizes per WP:BIAS that diacritics are valid in article titles and text, and is thus is announcing he'll WP:JUSTDROPIT, this is unfortunately clearly not actually the case; it's a condemnatory "there goes the neighborhood"-style complaint; the statement is juxtaposed in the same post with an array of rehashed anti-diacritics arguments, so it is certainly not any such concession. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 19:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC) Evidence added back after Sandstein deleted it; other material trimmed to make "room" for it. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 09:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

19:04, 7 March 2013 (UTC) by SMcCandlish.

Followup

Sandstein, I don't have any interest in playing your WP:LAWYERish "I personally declare your AE request meaningless now because I shortened it myself to no longer make sense" games. Why you personally feel compelled to respond to any request here that has anything to do with MOS is, well, let's just call it an interesting question. I guess Fyunck(click) gets a free pass this time. <shrug> Maybe I shouldn't care, since I"m not Swedish. Oh, never mind; you don't even know what that refers to, since you deleted the evidence. <sigh> Actually, I added the evidence back in and trimmed the commentary about it; I guess shouldn't theorize about why you didn't do that yourself instead of cutting out the part that matters. Hopefully someone uninvolved in MOS-bashing will take note of this request and actually act on it, other than by censoring it to be meaningless. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖכþ Contrib. 09:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Fyunck(click)

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Fyunck(click)

Wow. I'm not exactly sure where the heck this came from... sort of out of the blue. In an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#Use_of_accent_marks_in_titles I give a single opinion on an unsettled debate and out shoots an Arbitration Enforcement. I checked out SMcCandlish because of this and see he was admonished just the other day so I guess the frustration is to take it out on me. Under sanction/remedy to be enforced I have no idea what Mr. SMcCandlish is talking about - so no comment.

under diff of edits:

• 1. An editor asks a query and gets responses across the board. I make one comment... one... and I wind up here. Does having an opposing view to SMcCandlish really warrant me having to go through this? Or is this simply his anger at his recent warning coming through and I just happened to be an easy target?
• 2. I really don't know what to say here either. Is everyone who participates in any diacritic conversation "battlegrounding?" If so that would certainly include SMcCandlish and hundreds of others. Is SMcCandlish really asking for the muting of all opposing views on wikipedia? That seems a bit harsh to me.

under Diffs of notifications

• 1. I have no idea exactly what this is - so no comment
• 2. He really wants to bring HandsomeFella into this? An editor who's been blocked many times warns me for something that did not happen, and you bring that up here. This is an editor I've had problems with in the past with things he left on my own talk page. And the things that were being contested were not diacritics. How much combing and how how far back and how many ashtrays did SMcCandlish have to look under to bring this frivolous request here?
• 3. Absolute falsehood. And "clearly returned to the topic in force" is another ridiculous statement by SMcCandlish. Can he really do this with no consequences? In that ANI someone said that SMcCandlish was "intimidating me" on my talk page. I came over to the ANI to say he wasn't intimidating me. Goodness. But let me state right now... SMcCandlish is intimidating me now. This is like bullying and it must stop.
• 4. This is just grasping at straws by SMcCandlish. I was not blocked for edit warring over diacritics but a content dispute, and the person on the other side of the coin was also blocked. The other person was also blocked again. What a content dispute in July has to with this is beyond me.

Disclosure: I may disagree with SMcCandlish's diacritics position on both logical and policy grounds, but not enough to bully or intimidate as he is doing to me now. And I can't help what others write on my page but I do try to answer to the best of my ability. If someone wants to cherry pick those answers without the context that goes with them then there's not a lot I can do. (The remainder of the response has been removed by a reviewing administrator because it exceeded the 500 word limit indicated at the beginning of the section.  Sandstein  07:12, 8 March 2013 (UTC)) Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:00, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

• • Note - the numbers I added were a direct response to Mr. SMcCandlish's numbers above. He has since changed them to heap on more and more ridiculous attacks on me, and I'm not going to keep renumbering them everytime he decides to heap on more. My statements stand as is to this bullying, even though they were also trimmed. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Fyunck(click)

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I've shortened the request to the extent it exceeded the 500 word limit indicated at the beginning of the section. Indicating why a warning or notice is required should well be doable within 500 words. SMcCandlish may re-submit the request in a shortened version if he does so before Fyunck(click) responds to it. I'm waiting for a statement by Fyunck(click) before commenting on the merits.  Sandstein  19:38, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

On the merits now: The request (as it now stands) contains exactly one diff of allegedly objectionable behavior. I find nothing of concern in it. It is an argument about whether and how diacritics are used in English (that is a question of the content of the MOS and therefore outside the scope of AE), and an observation that "but with so many non-English-first editors these days that shift is to be expected". That is a general observation about Misplaced Pages's editorship and does not personalize any disputes. It requires no administrative action. This request borders on the frivolous, and I invite comment by other administrators about whether action is needed with regard to this.  Sandstein  07:21, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

• What is the exact criterion for being an uninvolved administrator here? I have discussed the diacritics issue with Fyunck(click) at length before, so even if I don't know what he's been up to in the last few months (in particular, all of these diffs above are news to me), I'd rather steer clear. What makes me somewhat confused is that Sandstein previously closed an RfC on the matter but has in turn commented in this section. Granted, I think any admin should have come to those same conclusions there, but someone else could disagree, and that action still involved a modicum of interpretation and discretion, so it could be broadly construed as involvement, too. --Joy (talk) 11:16, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

The thing that prompted me to ask this in particular was the implication of Not the admin I give two hoots about as far as diacritics. He is a diacritic diehard and is as biased as anyone can be on wikipedia on that subject. Nothing personal against you, Sandstein, I hope it didn't come off that way. --Joy (talk) 11:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Hm, whether you could be seen as involved would depend on the length and intensity of your diacritics-related discussion, I think. WP:INVOLVED excepts "minor or obvious edits which do not speak to bias".

I didn't remember closing that RfC in 2012 – I frequently close random RfCs listed as needing closure on WP:AN. My personal view is that while I might have become involved if I had expressed an opinion of my own in the RfC (especially one strongly opposed to that of any party to the present request), the role of a closer of an RfC (or any other community discussion, such as an AfD) is to neutrally evaluate the consensus outcome of the discussion (and since nobody has objected to the closure, I assume that's how it was perceived). I've closed plenty of Israel/Palestine-related AfDs, for example, and nobody has ever said that for this reason I might be too involved to act as an administrator in that topic area.

In the instant case, the consensus I considered to emerge from the RfC was congruent with SMcCandlish's opinion, and may have been contrary to (as far as I can tell) Fyunck(click)'s opinion. As applied to the present request, I'd therefore only consider recusing myself if Fyunck(click) were to request it.  Sandstein  16:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the issue of involvement, I'm not sure whether closing an RFC with a particular finding makes one "involved" or not, I would say not normally; if there was a question of conflict of interest, it might be, but I am not aware of the particular circumstances of the RFC in question and I doubt it would help resolve this request to go looking into it here.

As to the merits of this request, the relevant statement from the original arbcom case would I think be that All parties are reminded to avoid personalizing disputes. While Fyunck's comments are technically comments on contributor, I don't think they quite rise to the level of personalizing disputes, particularly since Fyunck is commenting on a third party or parties not involved in the actual discussions in which he made these comments. To put it another way, I don't get the impression that Fyunck was setting out to offend or belittle anyone here, or that a legitimate content discussion was being derailed through the use of such tactics. So while I wouldn't describe this request as frivolous exactly, I don't think it has a great deal of substance. Users must I think be allowed a little leeway in trying to make a point. What I would describe as sanctionable would be comments which might be considered to be unduly hostile, or which might be likely to cause anger or offence, and there isn't much evidence of that here. So I don't see any need for action at this time; the request itself will probably serve as a sufficient reminder to Fyunck. Gatoclass (talk) 13:19, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately I missed the fact in making the previous comment that three of the diffs are actually a year old. There is only one recent diff, and I see nothing objectionable about that comment, just making the observation that there are plenty of foreigners on en.wiki and assuming they would have a preference for diacritics can scarcely be construed as some sort of attack. So I agree that the request is frivolous. I think either a warning or a brief topic ban would be in order here. Gatoclass (talk) 14:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

• I too see nothing objectionable in the first diff; Fyunck's remark that non-native speakers of English might prefer diacritics seems like a fairly straightforward observation to me. Also, the "talked about a bazillion times" part may be hyperbole, but as I understand it there certainly has been a lot of discussion on the issue. With the lack of any other recent evidence presented, I have to agree with Sandstein and Gatoclass that this is a frivolous report. I think closing this with a warning would be too lax given SMcCandlish's warnings in this forum last week and on February 1st. Neither am I fan of topic bans covering a short duration, as they often cause more drama than they solve. I think the most appropriate thing to do in this situation would be to issue SMcCandlish with a short block, perhaps for one week, although I am open to persuasion about the length. — Mr. Stradivarius 15:08, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

• Agreed in principle, but it may be better to reconsider the longer-term MOS topic ban I suggested in the previous request regarding SMcCandlish. Sanctions should be preventative, not punitive. Because SMcCandlish's contributions in other topic areas are not problematic, as far as I know, a topic ban would be better suited to preventing untoward conduct than a block, which would prevent all contributions. The pattern of conduct that emerges from the previous requests you mention is one of a battleground attitude to MOS disagreements, and this groundless enforcement request is somewhat congruent with that pattern, because it is understandable that Fyunck(click) perceives it as "intimidating" and "bullying". Consequently I favor imposing a topic ban from the MOS and all related issues for about six months to a year.  Sandstein  16:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't possibly agree to a ban of that length for an initial sanction, especially for a relatively trivial offence like filing a frivolous request - and particularly since this is an offence that usually attracts no more than a warning at most. If it's to be a topic ban, it should not be any more than the usual length for an initial ban of one month. I could support a longer ban for, say, a hardened POV-pusher, but for a user whose positive contributions to the topic area are widely acknowledged, and who probably just needs a little time to adjust to the discretionary sanctions regime, more than a month would be unduly punitive IMO. Gatoclass (talk) 17:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Soosim

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Soosim

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Nomoskedasticity (talk) 06:13, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Soosim (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#PRINCIPLES and Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#General 1RR Restriction

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 7 March 2013 09:23 Undoes previous edit on Amiram Goldblum
2. 8 March 2013 08:03 Undoes previous edit on Amiram Goldblum, thus a violation of 1RR

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on 13 December 2011 by EdJohnston (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

• One edit relates to the Israeli occupation, the other to Peace Now. Both are clearly connected to I/P. If you look at the recent history of NGO Monitor, you'll see another violation of 1RR: first this, then this, both on 6 March.
• This request comes in the context of serious concern about the way Soosim has been adding poorly sourced negative to material to the BLPs of activists on the left of the I/P conflict. One egregious example was here, using a very questionable source to get an accusation of anti-Semitism onto the page. Another one is here, where some neutral material is accompanied by a vitriolic paragraph sourced to CAMERA's own website. Soosim has been antagonising Goldblum for months now, and if he can't adhere strictly to 1RR then he ought to be given a lengthy break and/or a topic ban. The use of poor sources for negative BLP editing should, in my view, result in a sanction even when it doesn't violate 1RR.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified.

Discussion concerning Soosim

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Soosim

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Soosim

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Could someone who was around then explain how Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#General 1RR Restriction is a restriction enforceable under Arbitration Committee authority? The case page states "Per community discussion and decision at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Arbitration Enforcement/Israel-Palestine articles", but this board is not for enforcing community decisions, only arbitral ones. If the 1RR restriction is to be considered a discretionary sanction (and I'm not sure that it can be, since it neither invokes the arbitral decision's authority nor is it labeled as being imposed by a clearly identified uninvolved administrator), the question would remain as to how we know that Soosim was made aware of the restriction's existence.  Sandstein  17:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)