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I finally gave up over the haggling about the DYK entry on Uppström. I thought I had achieved a reasonably brief version of the entry but the powers that be seem intent on removing absolutely all the context. (Meanwhile I have written articles on cruftcruft and even more cruftcruft.) Tupsharru13:14, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Ghirlandajo is the powers that be? I don't think so, Tups, but whatever. It's a shame you gave up, but I can't say I blame you. :-( The janitor was the colorful part, I quite agree. Love the Cruft family! Bishonen | talk14:00, 3 May 2006 (UTC).
Well, Ghirlandajo renominated the article after commenting out the discussion, so I went back there and insisted on my version, the one with the janitor. Against my better judgment. I really shouldn't care about this, I know... Tupsharru14:17, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I was delighted to see "that news reports X of Y University will take over Z post at A university" in DYK this morning. It's good to know that DYK is now also In the News. Geogre09:17, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Note that both my pieces of Uppsalacruft managed to get on the main page on the same day. Of the various things Misplaced Pages wonders its readers if they know today, a full third concern manuscripts in the Carolina Rediviva! Tupsharru15:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Ha! Soon there will be room for nothing BUT Uppsala on the Main Page. When are you gonna FAC your university article? Bishonen | talk16:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC).
So, wasn't it Jengod who was the head of DYK and in charge and running the circus? I take it that whoever it was, and it was someone able to exert some authority over the others, has gone on to greener pastures, because DYK has become a matter of an/i concern. Geogre16:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that an RfAr had been opened regarding Sam Spade. In my opinion, it's long overdue. I long ago stopped trying to keep the Hypnosis article free of Sam's bizarre claims about hypnosis and Egyptian healing trances... but I've always suspected that a CheckUser request to check Sam's IP against that of User:Hyp and User:CGameProgrammermight just get some interesting results. -- Antaeus Feldspar01:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. Could you request a CheckUser check based on the specific reasons you have for thinking so, or alternatively tell me what the reasons are so I can request it? The CheckUser people will only perform checks if you have fairly specific suspicions (though naturally you don't need to have something conclusive). Bishonen | talk02:12, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
I have fairly specific suspicions that one or both of them was actually a Sam sockpuppet. Each of them showed up abruptly and with their very first edit made a declaration on the talk page about how very bad the article was in the version not preferred by Sam. According to Hyp, we should wait for a "more expert writer" to take an interest; CGameProgrammer also thinks "a real hypnotherapist eventually rewrite it" because "If someone wants to learn about hypnosis from this encyclopedia, they are obviously not primarily interested in the arguments against it; they are interested in it itself." These are both arguments that Sam had been making previously. In Hyp's case, it was his only contribution ever; CGameProgrammer, five months after that sole edit to Talk:Hypnosis, started sporadically making posts elsewhere (never again to Talk:Hypnosis), so my suspicions that he was a Sam sockpuppet were slightly decreased (not fully allayed, however.) -- Antaeus Feldspar14:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Sam has said that he keeps socks and keeps them alive. Sporadic edits, then none, and then sporadic edits again would be the very thing to duck the limelight and make a sock look like a foot. Geogre14:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Please check your e-mail, AF. Geogre, you realize all the Outside Views have been removed now that the request is accepted? Only people who signed as "involved" are left. There's a logic to that, but it's a pity, since yours was nice and punchy. I don't know whether you'd like to re-post it and thereby self-identify as involved? (Compare the page instructions). Bishonen | talk16:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
One can move comments removed to the talk page of the case, right? Anyone can comment there, involved or no, I thought, and I believe ArbComm members indicated they do read that stuff and give it consideration... Hope that helps (I have no dog in the hunt regarding Mr. Spade... I just stalk bishie a bit from time to time, and this caught my eye!). ++Lar: t/c16:36, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
You too? (Yeah, my view and the other "outside" views are on the talk page now. I don't know if I want to be in, as I've almost never interacted directly with SS, but the reason for that is exactly what I discussed in my outside view. I don't talk to SS because I know what will happen, and so his typographical halitosis, as it were, clears out a space around his interests. We all carve out our areas, so that's no crime, but the way he does it by resorting to personal references isn't cricket.) Resolved: if I'm not as eat up next year as this, I will put my name forward for ArbCom. I thought about it seriously this year, but I knew I couldn't count on time, and I hate going through the icky to find the nut. Geogre18:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
sorry
I am sorry. I made a typo. I meant to say "if rofl is not a personal attack "i" don't know what is." Sorry for the misunderstanding. Please accept my apology.--Bonafide.hustla 05:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
actually never mind. I read the wrong post. :)--Bonafide.hustla05:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflic) There was no typo, you did write "i don't know what is". I wasn't quoting you, but using my own words: you call yourself "I", I call you "you". My point wasn't that you'd said something bad to me — you hadn't — but that the statements you were complaining about were in no way personal attacks. (Especially not ROFL.) If you think they were, I hope you grow a thicker skin, or life on the wiki is going to be very painful for you. Your foolish remarks about El C , on the other hand, were personal attacks. If you think they weren't, I hope you acquire a keener sense of what is due to others, or you'll keep running into trouble. You are still banned from WP:AN and WP:ANI. If you want to try to get the community to rescind the ban, you may post in the same thread one more time, to apologize fully to El C and to undertake not to waste the time and patience of the admins' noticeboard the way you've been doing. Try to show that you understand what the problem is, and people may be lenient. Bishonen | talk06:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
man you're kinda funny. well, for the record, i did know how to use the diff. link, i just didn't know there's a difference between the two. i guess then your comments on my talkpage was apparently made in good faith (although the wording was a lil angry) but anyway, about my talkpage, i'm gonna remove the comment in a sec. so yeah, i mean i'm not trying to be a "dick", but there is a bit of a double standard existing on wiki. Like, when I unknowingly removed Guanaco's name from the mediation committee because he had been desysopped (in good faith for i didn't know non-admin can be mediators), he was like seems like your edit is based on personal vendetta (Guanaco previously blocked me). It's sorta frustrating when ppl always look at your block log and stuff to determine whether your a good/bad person. 'cause i mean sometimes even if you're tryin to contribute, others interpret it as bad faith. well anyway just to letcha know. keep up the good work.--Bonafide.hustla07:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I think you probably do mean well more often than it appears, but I do think you need to try harder to distinguish between things that are really different, and only look the same on the surface. For instance, you can accuse somebody of a personal vendetta for good reasons or bad reasons, and your reasons for speaking like that of El C were far-fetched, also insulting, also against common sense. Using the same term as somebody else doesn't make it all right, when the background is totally different. Anyway, you keep speaking of my post on your page, but I hope you noticed that it was a post from WP:ANI? I posted it there first, so the community can object to my unilateral ban if they want. (But nobody has so far.) Anyway, I'm glad you thought my comment on Essjay's page funny, it gives me hope. :-) Peace. Bishonen | talk07:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
Infinity0's userpage
Your an admin right? Could you block the anon who just vandalized Infinity's page twice in 5 minutes? Their entire list of contributions has been vandalism of his userpage. The Ungovernable Force07:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Arghhh... my edit wouldn't go through at first. Wiki is up-down-up-down here in Euprope right now. But i blocked him just before! :-) Bishonen | talk07:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC).
My counter-argument was a bit ill tempered. Sorry about that. I think I'm getting sort of exhausted with the hours I'm keeping (waking at 4:30 AM, going in to grade, and then seeing thin envelopes from the bank arrive in the mail). I'm also getting headaches like Oswald in Ghosts, but without having had the pleasure that would have led to the condition. Geogre14:39, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
The thing is, I caught up. I actually caught up on grading. That only leaves me with 45 term papers (8-12 pp each) and 25 final papers (3-5 pp each) and 80 final exams to grade by Monday or Tuesday. (Ok, Wednesday, actually.) If I can do that, I can have my pay in hand by Friday, which will mean a happy spending spree before being sent up to a research library to do fact checking. The headaches are awful. Geogre16:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and the "Oh, come now!" wasn't entirely undeserved. I needed you to reassure Bunchofgrapes, and I wasn't lying. If I was lying, I sure didn't know about it (and neither did my own sainted professors). When I typed in those numbers, above, it started to look depressing again. I want to outsource my grading to Bangalore. Geogre17:03, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Nobody thought your pants were on fire, Geogre. But I remain mostly believing that the entire area of what theatre may have been legal in London by whose authority and at what time was a grey cloud even at the time, never mind you, me, or your professors trying to figure it out through the faulty lens of history. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
You can believe that, but it wasn't gray. Plays were illegal. Players could be arrested. Additionally, there was official censorship of the presses, so play-like works wouldn't be printed, either. Puritans were never known for being tolerant, and they were at their most intolerant during the interregnum. Geogre09:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I've removed some threaded dialog and renamed your section on the RJIII application. Please feel free to restore material relevant to the case, but bear in mind that the arbitrators don't want to have to read through threaded discussion. --Tony Sidaway19:03, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks!
Just wanted to say thanks for reverting my user page - I was busy trying to work out how to deal with the vandal. Really appreciate it! Libatius 10:19, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the message, no I had not seen it. I avoid him whenever possible life is too short. I am now a new person avoiding all controversy, troubles and strife. I am now growing my hair, smoking weed and writing only on abstact articles. Peace! Giano | talk16:47, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Do you have a couple of minutes?
Hi Bishonen. Ok, I admit the Sw. Misplaced Pages Notice Board didn't work out so well when you asked for a favour recently, --- I myself have been busy recently with administrative stuff such as deleting loads of NowCommons images, maintenance of the Commons server and similar ungrateful stuff. However, I'm going to start writing some proper articles now, and I started with Malmö, Skåne, and the such. May continue with Stockholm and Gothenburg.
Would you mind having a look at Malmö and see if there is something seriously lacking in the structure or in the information? If there is anything disturbing in the language, you are welcome to fix that too...
Malmö looks good, including the English, though perhaps a light grammar copyedit might also be in order. I'll try to find the time for it. (I mean, you have to admit that those would be the famous Swedish couple of minutes, as in "Just a minute " At least they would be for me. I'm slow.) I'm sure you know much more than I do about what's supposed to be in a city article, Fred, it's not my strong suit by any means. No, I don't see anything lacking. Though I can't remember ever seeing a line of references immediately below a section, in the middle of an article; what's that about? Bishonen | talk16:20, 7 May 2006 (UTC).
I love lurking, you find the coolest things. What a story! ++Lar: t/c12:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC) (who never wants to sail anywhere by himself)
I think it needs help in a paragraph (attrition), and the maps need to be embiggened. Otherwise, it's a great story. Geogre13:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC) (Currently south of Baffin Island and making 300 miles per day by paddle.)
Well, didn't you see my exchanges with several charmingly courteous users a day or two ago, with the name Infinity0 getting mentioned a lot? Ye olde chivalry lives on and no error. But I'm really only a proxy in this case. Now watch me go proxy on the evidence page. Ubiquitous. 15:14, 7 May 2006 (UTC).
I know, I know. More rumor of sockpuppets, etc. I just hit the wrong link from my watchlist. As for you, stray puppies beware! (Someone needs to be nice to newbies. Lord knows I'm not.) Geogre15:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
We've noticed. (Grin, duck, run)... (I still have scars...) But you're not the ogre you want everyone to think you are, as I mentioned in my RfA... ++Lar: t/c16:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Ah. :-) That's a secret, dammit! On the other hand, for blocking without warning and wanting every passtime and game deleted, I'm your man. You can generally tell when I'm ticked off, because I begin getting very, very diplomatic and measured. If you see very careful language, I'm about to go ape. Geogre18:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand, why this RfC is not yet approved, since there are already two users who certified it. Besides one of the other users who could certify this RfC is blocked. How is he supposed to certify? Raphael121:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Raphael1, I explain that in detail in my statement "View of the validity of this RfC by Bishonen" on the RfC itself, please take a look at that. Anyway, why did you remove the part of the RfC template — the instructions at the top of the page — that tell you about the need for the two people certifying to have attempted dispute resolution first? Please read those instructions now, if you haven't already; I've restored them to the top of the RfC page,, where they should have been all along.
How is he supposed to certify? He isn't. A blocked user isn't supposed to do anything on the wiki. If you need one more, and that particular person will be blocked for more than 48 hours, then you'll have to find somebody else. Why would he be the only other person who could certify it? It doesn't have to be somebody involved, it only has to be somebody who has tried to resolve the dispute. As I explain in my statement, you'd much better try to find someone to try to resolve the dispute who isn't personally involved, anyway. Bishonen | talk23:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC).
Courtroom conversions
I'm concerned about a courtroom conversion. One reason that there isn't much prosecutorial evidence being presented is that the bile is on one side only. No one wants to "get" or "get dirt" on the defendant, so, when he stops editing and calling names and trying to smear a person, that person wants to forget the whole thing and hope for the best. This is the behavior that has led to attrition. This is the behavior that has led to his "owning" a considerable number of articles. Indeed, in the evidence page, the defendant is saying that everything has been taken care of. Why, look! no insults since the RfC! In other words, "I stopped for the time being, so I'm innocent, and there is no case to bring." This is repentance before the bar. If it's repentence of heart is another matter, and for that we have to consider the past, consider the history. So long as everyone else is less bilious, less angry, and less interested in making issues personal, the defendant will get another chance and another and another, and a never-ending stream of new users will hit upon a controversial page and get ground into the dust by him, as all the experienced users simply stay away, ceding part of the project to his corner. Geogre02:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
re Sam Spade arb case
Bishonen, how long does an arbitration case actually stay open? I can't find any reference to timespan in the docs.
I must say I'm very suprised to see you are the only person to lodge some evidence so far (especially since, as you said yourself, you are not one of the more recent victims of his edit wars). What happened to all those other people who were complaining long and loud about Sam's behaviour? Gatoclass03:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for writing. I don't actually think there's any great hurry, the cases stay open kind of ad hoc. But, yes, I'm a little surprised too. I hope a few people are working on it. If not, it's their choice (shrug). If you check out the post just above, you'll see that Geogre is concerned too, and has a theory to account for it (wouldn't you know it ;-)). I hope he's wrong, that's all. Bishonen | talk05:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC).
Hi! Someone has recommended that the templates of Nobel Prize winners be deleted. Will it be ok if you just post your opinion at templates for deletion? Thanks, really appreciate it. =) Joey8006:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Well you can save your sarcasticals because ALoan is going to ban him for a very long time indeed! Then he'll be sorry. I note also your sarcastical comment on commas Bishonen, and you are woofing up the wrong tree there completely. Lots of people from arownd the world have problem writing English commas, because English is a language that has very badly constructed sentences - just look at some of the problems I have squeezing in the odd fullstop. Thank goodness I am grounded in the Latin tongue, and not forced to permanently converse in a language invented by screaming peole painted blue and wode - Yes, I am coming to Swedish next. A very new language I beleive! Giano | talk13:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Vandalism
Bishonen am I right in thinking you have the power to block IP's? If so, there are a couple of vandals over at the Joseph Stalin page you might like to scrub Gatoclass13:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Hey, you probably don't know who I am, but I'm - or I was trying to be - a friend of User:Thewolfstar's. Don't worry, she didn't send me to talk to you or anything. She's blocked and that's that as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I was astonished by the lenience shown her, what with being unblocked half a dozen times or so by different administrators.
What I wanted to ask you was, is there any way this could have been prevented? This is the second or third time I've seen a newbie editor (well, *ahem*, newer than me ^_^;) flame out and get blocked over personal attacks and rude behavior. I spent quite some time, and probably several thousand words, trying to advise Maggie against doing the sorts of things she did, which as far as I can tell she went right on doing. :(
The next time I see this start to happen with a new user, is there something you can recommend I do, other than just pointing them at WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA and praying they read them? Kasreyn03:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Bishonen knows the answer to this but Bishzilla, her nefarious alter-ego, won't let her tell the rest of us. Because we sure don't know. Personally, I don't think the PAs are really the root of it. Rather, it's the sure belief that one knows the truth, so one's edits are by definition good, right, just, and NPOV. Pointing at WP:CIVIL or WP:NPA is trying to put a band-aid over one symptom of this syndrome, and it rarely works. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:44, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
I saw that Esperanza was mentioned/involved somewhat. Unfortunately they seem to be having their own problems over the past few days. Are there any other groups around like that?
I know that when I needed help editing I put the 'Help' template on my page and someone showed up like magic. It would be nice if there was an equivalent group for people who need help with 'WP:There *really* is no cabal' and 'WP:Please don't bite the old editors either'.
Sigh. As with Kasreyn, I don't have any complaints and I'm not going to call Bish a rouge (sic) admin, it just seems like that could have gone better. Is there a policy or guideline or even essay anywhere that says newbies who are having trouble shouldn't listen to people who have been blocked a lot for causing trouble?
Yeah, that bugged me a lot. As soon as she started openly warring with admins, a horde of freakin' vultures descended on her talk page to tell her no, you're in the right, they're all wrong, anyone who tells you you're wrong is in on the cabal, but us? We're your friends. Bitter jerks. And naturally, when I tried to suggest that TINC, she immediately brushed me off. It's a shame. Kasreyn08:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Maybe we need to start suggesting that everyone read Fred's (?) essay on WP:NOT therapy. Goodnight, everyone. May all of your wikistress levels drop below the red.
Ah-ha! End of pointless existential maundering and a comment actually aimed at Bishonen! May I ask, why does one of the less-stressed levels of your meter turn you 'Dutch'? 'Godzilla', 'Zen', 'Opinionated', 'Full Deck' and 'Illegal Smile' all make sense to me, but 'Dutch'- Not so much. MilesVorkosigan06:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Nothing interesting, sorry. "Dutch" was just an unsuccessful attempt to entertain a Dutch editor, and in its turn inspired the illegal smile. Maybe I'll get round to putting something better some day; the Zen Moods are a bit of a time capsule, as changes to them are beyond my photoshopping skills and I need to ask my son who lives with me (no...no... he's not 18, you know that's crazy talk!) to help. Or Geogre, who has fixed up one of them. But neither of them loves such chores. Bishonen | talk19:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC).
Note that there is a new Geogre's Law: #9: "If I don't close my parentheses and brackets, I can never die." Geogre12:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Auntie Bishzilla's Advice Column
Auntie Bishzilla's Advice Column
Hey, Miles. Sorry, I only have a Bishzilla answer to give about your valiant efforts to present TWS with a clue. It's the first impulse of the best users... but, sadly, I'm coming to the conclusion that Aggressive Clueless Newbie Syndrome is a serious condition with poor prognosis. :-( I've never seen an ACNS case in remission. And there's a logic to it: they discover the site and that Anyone Can Edit. They read the articles on their favorite subject --politics, or religion, or their pet branch of pseudoscience--astrology, Bigfoot, Cryptozoology. They see that the articles are full of "lies", and set out to "fix" them. They're happy and feel useful, and expect praise; imagine the shock when their edits won't stick because an obvious liberal mafia or sceptics conspiracy or atheist cabal VANDALIZES their work! And if the user was already in a bit of a troubled state when they arrived, well... I won't go on. But nothing good follows, and I agree with Unca Bunch that Knowing the Truth has a lot to do with it. The nightmare outcome is when these "contributors" stick around for so long that they become familiar with policy and are able to wikilawyer it to some effect, as opposed to brandishing irrelevant guidelines at random the way TWS does. Because then you have... shudder ... the rare but monstrous Aggressive Clueless But Wiki-Savvy Old-Timer. Bishonen | talk17:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC).
Dear Bishonen (the sublime),
Yes, I could see the progression too. It was like a train wreck in slow motion. That's why I hadn't been involved for a while. TWS was editing in good faith *as she knew it*, but... Yeah.
Be careful of mentioning that last name. ACBWSOTs can hear it when you speak their name aloud in the light of a computer monitor. MilesVorkosigan18:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for dropping a line on my page concerning Thewolfstar's AN/I thread. I spent the past two days driving from North Carolina to Texas, which was the longest break I've had from Misplaced Pages for a while... sad. At any rate, it seems that the issue has already been settled. I agree with the admins and support the decision (although I hope to review in a few months if possible), but at the same time, it comes with disappointment. She had potential to make some great contributions, but... got distracted. At any rate, I appreciate your seeking community consensus before indef blocking, and taking the time to notify concerned parties. There's probably an admin barnstar somewhere that I'd give you for doing all that, but I'm too lazy to track it down. Just consider yourself having received it, along with my thanks. Have a good one. Tijuana Brass07:42, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
The Barnstar of Diligence
For diligently pursuing every means possible in attempting to deal with a disruptive new user, and following every step in gaining input from the community prior to enacting serious measures. KillerChihuahua13:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks so much for voting!Thanks so much for voting on my request for adminship. I have decided to withdraw my nomination as it seems that consensus will not be reached. If you voted in support, thanks for putting your trust in me to be a good admin. If you voted in opposition, thank you as well for your constructive criticism as it will only help me be a better Wikipedian and perhaps help if/when I apply for adminship again sometime in the future.
Bishonen, sorry to bother you again - I don't really know whether you are the appropriate person to point out vandalism to - but there's a guy who has been repeatedly dropping a block of rightwing drivel onto the Socialism and Criticisms of Socialism page over the last few days.
I just checked his edit history and it appears he's been deleting entire Wiki pages and vandalizing others. He's changed his IP at least once but this is his latest version: 130.216.191.184 Here's a link to his edit history http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Contributions&target=130.216.191.184 . Check the edits to the Helen Clark page, the Wiki Sock Puppety page, and the Egyptian Revival architecture page to name but three. Thanks, Gatoclass04:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
I may not always be here, indeed, and I sleep sometimes, so WP:VIP is the best place to report straight vandalism, it's supposedly watched round the clock. Unfortunately that won't do much good with 130.216.191.184: there's not a lot anyone can do about about an IP-hopping POV-pusher who operates out of the University of Auckland...! An IP like that can only be blocked very briefly. That's why you see a bunch of experienced users, such as CBerlet, simply reverting the pest. As long as controversial articles are well watched, that's what we can do to keep bastards like this at bay. The next step would be reporting him to the university. For not-so-obvious cases of vandalism--"bad users"--report on WP:ANI. Busy page, though, and everybody hates dealing with these IPs, so you may not always get much joy there. And if you're an IRCer, use #wikipedia on Freenode if you come across anything that needs real fast intervention, such as serial page-move vandalism. See Misplaced Pages:IRC. ("Conversations are occasionally off-topic": to get familiar with the channel, join #wikipedia any time for a chat about human sexual anatomy.) Bishonen | talk06:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC).
Dammit I thought I had the guy by the short and curlies. Obviously if he's posting from Auckland Uni there is no way of knowing whether he is responsible for the vandal edits.
However, he does also post under another nic and IP, they are Michael40 and 60.234.157.64. I'm guessing the last is his home IP.
If he isn't perpetrating outright vandalism I'm not sure what to do about him. What he is doing is making continual, blatantly POV rightwing edits on a number of articles, including Socialism, Criticisms of Socialism, Hugo Chavez, Criticism of Hugo Chavez] etc. I note also that while he was lecturing us on allegedly trying to "filter...valid, relevant, verifiable" information, he hypocritically went to the Central Intelligence Agency page and whitewashed ] a number of well established facts from the "Historical Operations" section.
The problem I have is that I don't know how to deal with a user like this. He isn't an outright vandal, so I can't get his IP blocked at the Wiki page you mentioned above. But he's clearly inserting outright POV/scuttlebutt into articles. And while he's responded on the Talk pages a couple of times, it hasn't stopped him in the least from repeatedly inserting his POV rants into articles regardless of consensus. Basically he just ignores consensus.
Now my understanding of Wiki is that we are supposed to make every effort to integrate a new user into the system, but this guy is showing little if any interest in co-operating. I'm also pretty sceptical, quite frankly, that someone with as clear an agenda as this can ever be integrated into a consensus framework.
So what do I do? Do I just continue to revert him, hoping he eventually goes away? (this seems problematic to me for a number of reasons). Should I get a formal or informal RfC started on the guy? I mean, what's the usual way of dealing with this sort of problem?
Thanks for your watchful eye and attention in the recent AOL/IP issue. That was a particularly bad sequence of blocks. I appreciate your efforts. Best wishes. WBardwin08:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I had to give up and go to bed, W. I turned the horrible mess over to #wikimedia-tech and I see even they had a lot of trouble with it. I am darkly suspicious of the situation at User talk:David Shield. Take a look at the message I just left there! Last night no doubt it was difficult for people to locate the original block in amongst all the autoblockery...but I see it, and now I've linked to it on David Shield's page. Bishonen | talk09:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC).
100 autoblocks! Almost terrorist in impact. I'm sure that other responsible users were impacted as well. WBardwin09:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Response to your message - Obviously I'm not as good at searching the block log as I thought. When I first responded I couldn't find anything with that user's name on it. I assumed that meant that the IP had been blocked automagically and that you had to be an admin to see it (for IP privacy reasons).
It was another user who said the block was clearly a mistake. I just saw the 'helpme' message and was willing to assume good faith. Once I realized Danny was involved I decided that it probably wasn't something I wanted to be involved with :) (I've read the mailing list).
Well, it's a redlink now, so maybe you won't check it. Blocked for WP:NLT and oblique maybe or maybe not physical threats. :/ Wait a second, 100 *different* autoblocks? Does that mean 100 different attempts to edit from the same IP? That's a bit obsessive. I'm better out of it. MilesVorkosigan13:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) It looked like somebody did just that, with a minute or two between tries, and a new hash number each time. They're easy to unblock, but when new ones come in at that rate...:-( Yeah, we'd all be better out of it, except that WBardwin apparently doesn't have a choice. Anyway, don't feel bad, that log has the worst search function — I ended up simply reading it. Here's a better autoblock search tool, courtesy of User:Pgk (though that still wouldn't have found the original block).
I was wondering if I needed to notify anyone that another sock appears to have made it through, but one of them has already vandalized Woggly's page and the other has posted a message on Danny's page complaining and threatening him over the deletion of the puppet-master's vanity article. I suppose it's a silly question, but how can he think that's going to turn out well? MilesVorkosigan13:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello there, glad to hear it! As if to keep global incarceration constant, shades of the prisonhouse begin to close upon the growing girl. But first, tonight: to the Threepenny Opera! Bishonen | talk14:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC).
I went on IRC last night to tell you that I had discovered that I'm immortal. The way I figure it, if this last session didn't kill me, nothing can. If you're off to see the Street Urchin and Jenny Diver and all the rest sing about that notorious German cuthroat Captain Macheath, that at least is some recompense for future burdens. Me, I'm just waiting for paychecks. I endured their crime, and now I want pay for my time. Geogre14:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi Bishonen. I've been hit by the autoblocker again -- not a dull moment. Information below if you get a minute. Sorry to muddy your page with someone else's unimaginative language. WBardwin06:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Your user name or IP address has been blocked from editing. You were blocked by Curps for the following reason (see our blocking policy): "Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING JUGGERNAUT BITCH!!!". The reason given for I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING JUGGERNAUT BITCH!!!'s block is" Your IP address is 207.200.116.72.
Everything seems ok -- did a couple of minor edits without being nabbed. Nice little user name -- huh? I'll have to wash out my talk page in a day or two. Thanks again. WBardwin06:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
I see you restored some deleted content on User talk:Tarret and left a message about it. I happened to be watching his talk page because a comment of mine was summarily removed from there as well, recently. It seems he likes to remove people's comments from his talk page, always marking them as minor edits, without responding to them — and apparently he sometimes does so as an anon edit. It seems very rude to me, but whatever... - dcljr (talk) 17:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I never got any reply from him either. The IP sometimes does rather worse edits, removing content from other pages. I will keep an eye out for vandalism (thanks for reminding me) but there's nothing I can do about mere determined rudeness. Bishonen | talk17:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC).
Help with RfC
Hi Bishonen... I finally posted a Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Kven users RfC. The page is currently covered by statements from the problematic user in question and I don't know how to proceed. I asked Tupsharru for some input but he didn't respond. Since I know you have experience with RfCs and dispute resolution, I would just like to ask for a suggestion how to proceed?
Sorry for not responding on this previously. First of all, I have been pretty sure this user is the same as the one creating trouble on other Finland-related pages, such as Jacob De la Gardie, and I believe the RFCU confirmed that, but you and Mikkalai don't seem to agree. Second... well, I just feel that with all the bullshit, I wonder why this user can't just be indefinitely blocked. Why do we have to go through all the trouble? (Partly rhetorical question.) Tupsharru18:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
OMG what a mess. Ping me on IRC, Fred, and I think we can simplify this, indeed. And if you've got time to join us, Tups, it would be perfect. Bishonen | talk18:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC).
(edit conflict)From your POV, is that a superlative or a complaint?
Before edit conflict -
Sorry, I should have remembered there is no irony on the internet. :) No, I'm not assuming GF, we both know exactly who that is. My fault: Even in real life people think I'm serious when I'm trying to make a joke.
He's assuming Girl Friend? Geez. Bishonen's being claimed by all these men. I'm telling you hounds: we got married in a secret ceremony to prevent our warring families from preventing it, and the Duke had an order that anyone disturbing the peace would be banishéd. (I couldn't resist making a few comments. I know I'm not supposed to have tripped over, etc., but that was just irresistable.) Geogre02:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
You have no idea how rarely those things work on getting girls, so when one finally does fall for it, it's natural to get protective. Geogre18:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. Actually, my chest wig is prescription. After all those surgeries I had, the doctors prescribed it for the sake of the public's digestion. Geogre20:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC) (open heart, appendectomy, cholecystectomy, open heart)
Listening to Admins
Yeah, I know I should listen to Admins, it's just it kinds make me mad since he said it was just an opinion that God made the earth, when the Theory of Evolution is an opinion too, it's just someone else's opinion. Uweretheone00:43, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
That still wouldn't be a very strong argument. <sigh> Look, I'm a Christian and I believe that evolution is an accurate theory, so I'm not a fundamentalist, but I play with fundamentalists every day, and finding a transitional form wouldn't do anything to their objections. (One argument they could mount is that evolution, to be a valid theory, has to be testable by recreation under controlled circumstances to eliminate other causes of change, and that hasn't been done.) My problem with the literalists is that they're reactionary and don't even know it. For centuries and centuries, Christians regarded Genesis as 100% true and 0% literal. The article on Noah's Ark discusses this a little bit. Long, long before Darwin, Christian thinkers were pointing out that the stories are true, that they're not "just symbolic," that they're not "just stories," but they're also not history. It took the triumph of empiricism and then Darwin to stir a reactionary position that was, in fact, unnatural for Christians. However, they can never cease to be reactionary if people taunt them. Their position is not a rational one, but an emotional one (and not a religious one, either). So, given that it's emotional -- a reaction against certain attempts to deny faith that leaves them in the false dichotomy of "every word literally true" or "it's all a joke" -- taunting does nothing but keep them from the position of freedom and comfort such as used to be found in Christian communities, when it was possible to discuss truth as four fold living words and not just history and annals. Geogre02:55, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Whoa.. Sorry! I just thought it was a neat picture. Didn't really think about the transitional fossil/evolution, etc. aspect of it at all, that was NOT my intent. Someone left me a panderichthys a while back so I went looking for weird creatures to leave for my friends... and I love the name "fishapod", it's goofy. I left this one in a few places. Major apologies if offense was given. ++Lar: t/c16:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Hey, it made me smile. What a cheerful-looking fellow! And, you're right, "fishapod" is fun to say. Almost as much fun as ... "bishapod" !!! Perhaps we've hit upon one of the transitional forms of bishzillan evolution! FreplySpang(talk)17:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, Lar, I was just reading it in the context of the fellow next break up who was being baited for being a creationist, he says. I have no truck with the creationists. I think they're silly. At the same time, there is a lot of baiting of fundamentalists that just doesn't seem productive. (I was just going on and on about it on my talk page -- the trollish change of the userbox "Christian." Again, I have no patience for the userbox, would never use it, don't think it's important, etc., but the changing of it was an overt attempt to poke someone in the eye.) My apologies for thinking you were tweaking the feeb. BTW, now that you mention it, it does look a bit like a Barney the Dinosaur tadpole -- complete with inevitable non-threatening grin. Geogre18:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
AArgh!! Barney the Bishapod!!! Sorry folks, revamping Tiktaalik is just going to have to jump up my todo list: it was a rush job working from photos of the model and the cheesy grin just happened, the skull's really more triangular and it should look more alligatorish. If anyone's desperate to keep this silly version, give me a shout and it can be uploaded under a new name: maybe Barneyapod? :/ ..dave souza, talk19:05, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I like Barney the Bishapod. He's cute and cuddly. He no doubt went extinct from being hugged to death! Geogre20:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
If you make it all realistic and scientific and stuff it won't be nearly as funny, I mean, geez. Perhaps you can recolor it the way panderichthys was recolored?... I'm thinking um, since that one was green... why not go purple! ++Lar: t/c20:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
If you make it all realistic and scientific and stuff it .... a plushie fishapod! What a great idea! Hm, I wonder if it's already on the market... FreplySpang(talk)21:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Barney the Bishapod, patent pending.
NO! The noble cause of Science must come first, and it is my Duty to try to make Tiktaalik more accurate and less cheesy. With limited success as you can see from the image at the start of all this tosh. However, community spirited as I am, yours truly has bowed to public pressure and a cuddly Barney the Bishapod with a remarkable resemblance to your old cheery pal should now appear to the right. I demand a cut on any sales! ..dave souza, talk18:45, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Aww! A bishapod for Freply's (somewhat more intimidating) Darwin Bish to (gulp) play with! They're both lovely, thank you so much! Bishonen | talk18:58, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
Hi there, Kawai neko! Not sure what "the number of users" refers to? But let me break down my offences for you:
If you read thewolfstar's talkpage archive here, you will get a goood picture of my crimes. I know it's long and, uh, kind of repetitious, but just do a search for "Bishonen". As you can see, the posts from me are few; I soon decided that arguing with TWS was too surrealist for me, I'm impatient that way. But the discussions of me are pretty comprehensive! ;-)
It was me who blocked TWS indefinitely as having exhausted the community's patience, here. Do click on the link I give there to the block log, it's kind of hair-raising. The ANI thread, which is linked to in the message, is also very telling. Unfortunately it's been archived from the ANI page, so you'll have have to use the diff to the first post that's supplied in block message.
And thirdly: yesterday I blocked User:Lamb of god as an obvious sock (or possibly meatpuppet). It's not editing from the same IP, but the CheckUser arbitrator that I consulted laughed at the idea that it would not be a sock. And indeed, I'm convinced the community will uphold the block. That reminds me I need to go post it on WP:ANI.
Bish, I hate to ask you every time I think something needs attention, and I have asked Geogre to take a look, but hopefully there is someone among the people with either page on their watchlist who knows something about German literature. The author of Erich Heller has asked for comments on the talkpage. It is a fairly specialized topic and I don't know if there is any point in taking it to peer review, as I see that most requests there get ignored. Tupsharru09:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
You asked...
...Now here's the answer:
Ways are what people will do in order to ensure advantages for themselves, while won'ts are the opposite, although commonly people do not conduct this in a manner that will lead to disadvantageous situations; it frequently occurs without realization.
Won'ts are the opposite of what people will do in order to ensure advantages for themselves? Won'ts are what people won't do to ensure disadvantages for others? Got it. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:51, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Bless you children, I am returned to you! Put it down Geogre! I'm sure that woman has split an infinitive or something horrible there. I know I can't speak English but that just does not sound right to me. I thought she had left us all anyway. Why has she returned? - who has encouraged this, unwelcome visitation?- BoG you seem to be going a little scarlet! "A chi dai il dito si prende anche il braccio" (old Italian saying) Advise from the religiously confirmed: "Deprive the ferret of its oxygen and it ferrets to hectares new" (new Sicilian saying) Giano | talk21:54, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
And here I was worrying that this page was getting all, "coherent" and stuff... Well, glad that's sorted! It's back to normal now that Giano turned up. ++Lar: t/c
Thank goodness for online translation services. "To who from the finger takes also the arm." Hmm. You make no more sense than EE, Giano. Are you Canadian? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Don't try to be clever with me please! It's all very well for Auntie to announce she is giving advice; but is she qualified for such a role? No she is not! All this being nice and welcoming to all and sundries - what does it achieve? Weasels in the fireplace, that is what! Bishonen is too nice for her own good. I am not at all nice, but I have no ferrets in my fireplace. Why do you think this is? Now you all think on that. Giano | talk22:11, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Ah! A wise man at last has arrived. You see BoG you have so much to learn. Freddyspong here understands exactly the advice I am giving. Beware the worm in the wood haemeroid Giano | talk22:22, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm telling you, if you keep that up with your weasels and your ferrets, you're going to be in trouble. It's very clearly outlined in the Bestiary: "The weasel we take to be a common symbol of Lust that gnaws through even the mildest of hearts" and "The ferret is the very type of theft, for it stealeth both day and night." So, you keep that up, and you'll find your nights missing and no more money left on the dresser. Better to be like me: a Sniper of Love. Geogre22:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
You embarrass the establishment with your gender confusion, Giano! Say hallo to Mrs Spang! And now....
Allo beeyootifulla lady!.... you wanna see my very macho chest-wig and "gold effect" medallion? Giano | talk07:25, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Is this silliness really necessary? Bishonen was curious to know something, and I answered — the chapter ends here. I really cannot grasp this conversation without complication. Anyway, if you want more information, come visit North America or at least check Google. Now I will go with as little insult as I can. —Eternal Equinox | talk15:55, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm not a wileding anyone, I always willing, in fact I wiled, I willing, just not willerding. Come Freply, Caro mio, (can I call you Freppie) let us leave this place and go a willerding in the woods. Bishonen, I willa take you willerding tomorrow Giano | talk17:34, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
You babblers! Do you even realize I've been RFArd? Isn't anybody gonna go defend me, except dear Bunchofgrapes? Giano! Don't you care? Geogre?
I'll get the wheat whites and wine for my Little Feat. No worries over the RfAr; it's just the sound of a small dog barking, and if you talk back, it'll just bark more. Geogre19:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
EE, frankly, if you're unhappy about my page, how about just taking it off your watchlist, hmm? Just a suggestion. Didn't I see you just above mentioning that you were leaving now? Perhaps you have some friends of your own to banter with? Your replying to my question was nice, but replying here as well as on WP:ANI where I actually asked seems a bit excessive in the first place. And I really like for people to be able to spread themselves here without having the "necessity" of their "silliness" questioned. Very little of this thread has anything to do with you, you know; people merely omitted to make a new subheading when they went on to other subjects. I'll do it. There, happy? Bishonen | talk19:29, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
Yes, I agree. Go away and don't come back. Jetz, meine kleine Freppiechen, Caro mio, where were we Giano | talk19:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Only that it is very difficult to realize this when the header had not been placed. I just happened to respond on both pages and I figured everyone had to make a joke about it (which, as I confide, appeared rather unusual). Now I am not leaving Misplaced Pages because there is no reason I have to, and I will never leave unless I have to in some sort of way. Thankfully, the friends I have garnered on this website are sincere. Please do not elaborate on this comment or on what "sincere" means. If I ever come into contact with either of you again, it'll be for good reason. Examples, please? Those are my ways and won'ts. Tsk, tsk. I should ask her — myself, sorry — for advice. —Eternal Equinox | talk19:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Good grief, I was referring to what you said ABOVE. Namely that you were leaving my page. I would encourage you to. Nobody's talking about you leaving wikipedia. At least I'm not, and was not. Bishonen | talk19:59, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
I'm afraid further steps are going to have to be taken at this point. Our administrators are the ones who are completely corrupted. And again I'm afraid I'll have to continue to post until this silliness comes to a halt. —Eternal Equinox | talk20:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me? You're going to have to keep posting? On my page? After you've gone on and on about how you're not going to? And have been requested not to? Yet another familiar pattern. Calm down, now. Get this: what my friends post on my page is not your business. Who asked you to troll this page and interfere in other people's conversations? That provokes people, you know. If you post here again, you'll be rolled back like a common vandal. If you post again, you'll be blocked for harassment. Do you want to go down that road again, really? Wouldn't you rather work on your articles, now? As for you, Giano and Geogre, just cut it out, you're not funny. Bishonen | talk21:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC).
A young Bishonenspang arrives in town, while a decadent Giano and Bunchofgrapes leer at her from a doorway and an unidentified female introduces her to a life of promiscuous sin.
I asked
But I think I found it. Geogre15:13, 14 May 2006 (UTC) (I'm referring to my socks. I wanted to know where they were after last night. Turns out, they're in Sweden.)
Cool, I was just looking for a good place to put them. (Your ears?). Now if you'll excuse me, I'd better go write a response to the Request for Arbitration that User:WCityMike has filed against me.Bishonen | talk15:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
And now I've spread my thunder all over the place. If I keep on rumbling, people will stop believing that I'm an Frost Giant (or troll or Ogre of the Earth or Ge-Ogre) and think I'm just another battling admin. Still, the targets were tempting, and the rhetoric came (I lisp'd in numbers for the numbers came). Geogre19:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
I seem to swing my mighty hammer best when there is an RfAR workshop page to aim at. I don't know why that is, but I've risen to my greatest rhetorical heights and delivered sharpest blows in such cases. Go figure. Everybody needs a talent, I guess. Geogre02:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Sure. There is Christianity of the Roman Catholic, the Anglican, and the Assorted Protestant sort, Norse myth, and Star Trek. I think that covers most varieties of religious experience on Misplaced Pages. Geogre19:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
That's not a religion, and I'm not funny. Tom Curse is funny. Conan O'Brien did a great bit where Mayor McCheese is OT VIII and standing up for Tom Curse's religious choices. Geogre23:03, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Aunt 'Zilla's Etiquette Tips and Intimate FAQ
Nice? Hah!
Place your questions below, please.
Wikiquette
Question: Is it acceptable to rotate on the wiki?
Answer: On talkpages only. And only until you get dizzy. PS, it is not proper for disgraced criminals to rotate, obviously.
Question: When she says "I'll be right back" and goes to the restroom, but she doesn't come back...how long should you wait before you call a cab? Waiting at the Bar
Answer: Call a cab what? /me falls over laughing at dinosaur wit.
Hygiene
Question: What do you do to clean bits of buildings off your teeth, and how do you get rid of those embarassing school bus stains? Mothra has a date!
Answer: Do yourself a favor with the fair, or any, sex, use the Bishzilla range of toiletries for all your daily needs. For your special requirements I recommend flossing with Bishzilla's Dental Hawser and exfoliating with the Velvet Smooth Gravel Paste for that shiny, scaly, first-date look. And don't forget the rouge.
Rent-A-zilla
Question: Megatokyo features a "rent-a-zilla" which Largo has taken out for a spin more than once, much to the dismay of shopkeepers in the vicinity. Do you know how much the rental is, and do you have suggestions for how to break into the business? It seems like it might be quite lucrative! Worshiping Mammon in Megatokyo
Answer:
Dear Mammon, dear Mammon, you have no complaint
You are what you are, and you ain't what you ain't
Answer: Bask in the glory, and enjoy the obvious envy of paltry musclers-in! Actually, I like your "federal case"... Felonius Monk's "contrived embroglio" is the best so far, though!
I hope you can reinstate me from my ban. As you might've noticed, I already posted an apology on Elc's talkpage. thanks--Bonafide.hustla06:42, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Bh, actually I asked you to post once more in the same thread on ANI, to put your apology there and ask if other people were ready to reinstate you. But I do understand that we had an honest misunderstanding about that, and, yes, I noticed your apology to El C. It's fine, you're welcome back, I'm sure you don't have any time-wasting posting in mind. Feel free to use the noticeboard. If I don't remove your posts, I bet nobody else will either--they probably don't even remember there was a problem. Or if you like you could add a note that this is OK by Bishonen now, if you prefer. Bishonen | talk10:16, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
Gatoclass
Bishonen, did you miss my post to you above? Under the "More Vandalism" heading. If you don't have a suggestion that's fine. I guess we'll eventually work out something collectively if he continues to make a nuisance of himself anyhow. Regards Gatoclass10:40, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Gatoclass, indeed I did not miss it. I apologize. I've been thinking about it and trying to pull myself together to write a responsive answer. (In the meantime, I know you see me bantering with the guys, but that doesn't mean I'm taking time off, as such--that's something I do with my toes while simultaneously grading papers!) See, the problem is so difficult, and so common. It's exactly the place where the "dispute resolution process" crumbles. The next step should be either mediation or an RfC; the trouble is, only good users are interested in taking part in them. You get worn out trying to RfC guys like that, because:
Writing up an RfC is a lot of trouble, while responding to it is easy, and why would he even bother to respond at all, when it's even simpler to go on just as he's been doing?
His political opinions and POV--I warn you I'm a bit cynical here, and my bias may be showing--mean that there are lots of users around the place who'd be ready to support him at the RfC, on the principle that "You're just saying he's a bad editor because of his decent godfearing patriotic opinions, OMG liberal cabal!" I hasten to add that I don't mean all, or even most, politically conservative editors behave like that! But the ones that do are a big group and a suspiciouos, confrontational, aggressive lot. :-( So an RfC is likely to be unbalanced by people with an axe to grind.
Finally, since the case is so common, it's hard to generate constructive interest in an RfC in an unknown editor with that editing pattern. It's not like when it's Sam Spade!
So altogether I see an RfC as being a lot of trouble with most likely little result. Mediation might be better. Mind you, I think he'd be unlikely to agree--why would he, presumably the present situation is fine by him--but at least there you'd have the advantage that requesting mediation is dead easy, you wouldn't be investing a lot of time and frustration, and who knows, it might go somewhere. You might take a look at Misplaced Pages:Mediation and Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation.
But my most practical advice to you is to discuss the issue with the other editors of the articles. CBerlet comes to mind as a highly experienced and dedicated editor, who's been through the wars on the politically controversial articles. (I haven't--I know my temperamental limitations--I'm very interested in the articles as such, but I can't stand trying to work against the hostility and filibustering one always encounters at them. I try, and then I leave, like a coward. :-() I hope you find some way of either working with, or dealing with, that guy. Bishonen | talk12:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC).
I didn't really see an RfC as a valid option either. I was really just trying to get a handle on how this sort of thing is usually handled on Wiki. To tell the truth, I just hate reverting people cold, even if they are POV. And it's not something I want to make a habit of.
Anyhow, I'm not going to worry about it anymore. Sooner or later, this guy is going to wake up that his edits are futile. Then he will either leave, or start participating in the process like a responsible user. And either way, the problem will be solved. Thanks for taking the time to explain the score to a Wiki-beginner :) Gatoclass14:11, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Balloon
"Noch ist Polen nicht verloren". Entry ticket at the student carneval at Lund University 1896.
As an established Wikipedian, I was hoping for your assistance regards a particular article. Specifically the article on NPA Personality Theory - it is a new article, but was submitted in a very much complete state. It now has properly sized imagery, is professionally written, expansive and all emcompassing regards it subject, is NPOV, of a good length - and cites references. The subject matter is, to my mind, interesting. Thus, should it be nominated as a Good article? Or, as a featured one? If you feel the former, then by all means add the "Good" article tag - along with some advice if you can. If you believe the latter should be appropriate, again any advice regards this would be great - if you could leave a response on the linked articles Talk page, that would be great. Thanks! -- D-Katana 22:25,14 May 2006 (UTC)
Bish, you failed. It's the No Personal Attacks Personality Test, and when you said "piss," you were clearly insulting Bunchofgrapes to test his personality. Geogre02:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
You mean that you were telling him that you think that Piss is a good article, or that it's a featured candidate? It can't be the latter, as talk page form 10-stroke-2203 hasn't been filled out in triplicate and lodged on the talk page, and it's obvious that the spacing is all wrong. Geogre02:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
You're working on drinking urine? It sounds unhealthy, but I suppose you would just have to close your eyes and gulp. Ummm, would this be your own or ... Nevermind: I don't want to know. Geogre02:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Actually, urine is used by some yogis as an aid to meditation, and medical science has shown that there is indeed a chemical in urine that (from memory) distorts the sense of time, thus allowing longer meditation sessions. These urine drinking yogis also prefer the urine from children, which has been demonstrated to have higher concentrations of this particular chemical. Gatoclass07:08, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Yogis drink it, and making it is a Boo Boo, and thus all water is passed. Vampires can't pass water, it seems, which explains their preference for wearing black and living alone. Geogre21:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Seriously, you can't be for real! "we can pretty much assume you are not a troll, vandal, or clueless newbie"?? "I hope you still enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian, and won't get mad over something stupid and leave!"?? "don't get all grumpy and leave over nothing"?? The stuff is bizarre. I can't possibly welcome people with that! Should I create oldwelcome2 with normal wording, or can we agree to put this monster out of its misery? - CrazyRussiantalk/contribs/email01:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, why would you welcome people with a template you don't like? I presume people use it as a joke, planting it on people they know will appreciate it--I know I do. After all, an oldie isn't like a newbie, an unknown quantity; they're someone whose tastes and sense of humor I'm aware of. (If I'm not, then I'm not going to use this template, obviously.)
Please do create oldwelcome2. I don't understand why you would need to gut this one for the purpose. I don't even understand why you feel an urge to badmouth this one, as opposed to simply not using it, but hey, YMMV. If you check the history, you'll see that you're the first person to edit it after it was created by User:Phroziac, in July 2005, so it doesn't exactly seem to have been provoking or annoying lots of people in the meantime. I'm not only for real, I might even be almost normal. Bishonen | talk01:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC).
Seems pretty funny to me. Since the thing was invented and used solely as a joke, I can't understand how anyone would even find it unless they were in on the joke, much less use it. Therefore, I can't understand why its mere existence is an issue unless folks are simply going through every template and evaluating them as if they were articles. If they're doing that, I need to hear about it, because I'm convinced that about 90% of the templates on Misplaced Pages need to be deleted, along with the user boxes, and all the little tags that litterbugs drop on articles when they have no intention to help the article in any way but still want to show that they like to pass a judgment. Geogre17:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok. I was unaware that it's a joke. Perhaps it should be clearly labelled as such. Thing is, I saw it used on someone in earnest, and I was petrified that we were giving this language to not perfectly new, but still sort of new under-welcomed users! The reason it passed under the radar is b/c it's not referred to in the page which lists all the non-private welcome templates. Ok, I will just use welcome instead of creating oldwelcome2. - CrazyRussiantalk/contribs/email17:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Erich Heller
I copyedited much of the Erich Heller article not long ago. All my edits were immediately reverted by an IP number editor. Ach! I don't want to discourage the editor hard at work on the article; but the issues of NPOV and house style might actually be as well covered by going back. Also, we need to have a word about using edit summaries. Charles Matthews11:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Checking. I see what you mean. Wow. Do you think the IP and Prof2 are the same person? Anyway, the Prof doesn't seem 100% aware of the way the History works, from his comment about "Bishonen's posting on the article's History page". I'll go put in a reference to the Help:Edit summary page for him on Talk:Erich Heller. There's a template I could use, I believe, that would give the info right there, but I don't know what it is. ({{editsummary}} isn't any good for this.) Anyway, perhaps you could join me, and bring up the house style and your being reverted...? It's a bit late to revert to your excellent copyedit, though, I guess; that would discourage him. (You should have had an invigorating edit war with the anon right away! ;-)) Bishonen | talk18:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC).
Attention Citizen
The entity Bishbot has been traced to this account. Desist running any and all unauthorised automata at once. Fill out form thirty-seven-slash-two schedule B to apply for permission to seek limited feet/bird-bot authorisation. Failure to comply may result in termination. Thank you. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
I suppose Bishonen hasn't been to WP:AGE yet. Bunchofgrapes doesn't qualify yet. You have to have more in your retirement account than your checking account to go there. Geogre23:26, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
If that's the criteria, I qualify easily. But that's saying more about my checking account than anything else. I still think I might qualify for WP:AGE on my own merits though. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm so old that I remember the free issue of Popular Paranoia that came with the Infocom game "A Mind Forever Voyaging," which was a game that didn't have any pictures at all. None. No pictures. Just a carrat cursor and a neat language parser. Geogre02:42, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I played Adventure on a Vax, but the best of all time, the one that proves no doubt that kids today know absolutely nothing about good plots, was Hitchhiker's Guide on IBM PC Jr. Also, Mind Forever Voyaging did have one of the best endings of all time, but I found a single picture-dripping game that had a similarly good ending, and that was Planescape: Torment. Other than that, none of the clicky clicky here here games can touch the old Infocoms for plotting and thoughtfulness. "Oooooh, my Orc ran double speed across the Jungle of Thithhy!" <yawn> "My clan needs a Misplaced Pages article its so famous and dont delete it!" <yawn> Geogre11:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Re: I wish you no harm (either)
I feel the need to make this my final response because of what you posted on my talk page. One: no more communication would be pleasant. Two: an RfC was filed against you before, yes, I see. But there is no mention of HW there, so, uh, I don't understand. Three: I promise this is my last post since I felt the need to respond to you. But this is it, this is it, this is absolutely 100% it. Now if everything really you conducted was under the assumption of good faith, then excellent effort. I cannot argue with those words.
I wish you no harm either. Just please ask your friends to refrain from conversing about me here on out on Misplaced Pages; obviously I do not really care what occurs outside of these walls. —Eternal Equinox | talk19:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I assumed you know some japanese... I though you might want to comment on those. Also feel free to cleanup the kanji-romanji translations if necesary. :)
We're not funny. See, I even tried passing on a link to an RFA song, and all I got was a condescending sniff. Can you blame Giano, after what happened to me, for not wanting to expose himself? Geogre03:01, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Blame Giano? Nonono, I'm delighted he doesn't. Tell me, do you want to ... do that ...? Have you felt like that for a long time... ? Eliza and I will be going now! Bishonen | talk03:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC). P.S. I actually am asleeep; just got up to open the window. (Now I'm thinking I might jump out of it!)
Have I been exposing myself? I type naked, my heart on my sleeve, which I'm not wearing, where it gets stomped and used as a cigarette ashtray by all la belle dames sans merci. The sight of it would make a sadist cry. O misericordia, everyone is so mean to me! Geogre03:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Oooh, I had a friend who forgot and left her heart on her sleeve when she tossed her blouse into the hamper, it went through the laundry and everything. It came out soft and fluffy, static-free and Downy fresh! But she was lucky - she really should have checked the label, a lot of people's hearts are dry-clean-only. FreplySpang(talk)03:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
My poor heart is broken, so you're all too late, it's already torn. Why do you think I'm working on articles about whores and whore hunters and celebrating misgynystic poets? Womens are viscous as a species. Geogre11:10, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
All the women I end up with are viscous -- I never can find any fast women who are slow enough to be caught by me. As for the blood countess, that's for Giano. He's a member of the peerage or something. I'm only a member of the hickarchy. Geogre12:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Just because I am on holiday please do not talk about me as though I am not here. I have removed this page from my watch list. as people are not serious enough here for an intellectual brain such as mine. Freppie has refused my kind offer to marry her, and I have decided Bishonen is far too "forward". So I am not watching it any more. I will not be commenting on the puerile conversations which take placed as I am far too busy single handedly writing this encyclopedia. I am in fact working on an in depth and very serious study of a popular music song and video which will shortly be a featured article. Now grow up all of you. Giano | talk10:10, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
You've got a lot of cheek, my chest wigged medallion wearing friend, telling others to grow up! You wouldn't know what to do with a "forward" thinking woman if she bit you. ++Lar: t/c13:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I've been biten by more forward women than you've had hot dinners sunshine. I can have anything I want in that department, just by clicking my fingers. Now please get on with your work, and stop interupting me. Giano | talk13:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
User dispute
Would you mind looking into a user dispute? I have a rather lenghty evidence I posted at ANB/I that has been siting there for some time now. I assumed you would volunteer to investigate. ;) --Catout19:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
So are you making two points: a) that Moby Dick is a sock of Davenbelle, and b) that the sock is hounding you? Or what? I looked, and I think it's obvious that MD wasn't a new user when he started editing. That edit at your RFA is even professional in more ways than you mention. That doesn't prove he's Davenbelle, of course; but I think the circumstantial evidence for that is good enough to request a CheckUser check. Have you done that? I'll do it if you like, as soon as I see someone with CheckUser access on IRC (there's nobody at the moment). Bishonen | talk22:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC).
I have requested a checkuser. Davenbelle last edited early december. Logs making checkuser posible is only kept for a month and due to that technical nature a checkuser is not possible hence the checkuser was 'inconclusive'. Hence I only have his edit behaviour as evidence and cannot 'confrim' with a checkuser...
Thanks for letting me know but I already added comment back. I have been reverting and rolling back Amorrow sockpuppets to the point of that I'm going brain dead! FloNight01:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Frustrations
Please see my message at User talk:Charles Matthews. I think CM was insensitive to the situation and expressed himself in a way which got him off on the wrong foot with Prof02. Prof02 is now asking to have the article transferred to userspace. Tupsharru10:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
My vote
Yes, my vote, but made by someone else. I would not have put up the proposal if I did not intend to vote for it. Fred Bauder16:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Cry for Help
You have any books with decent images of Nell Gwyn to scan? The internet hasn't coughed up anything good; I don't have a scanner myself. I know Howe's The First English Actresses has a plate of this one; maybe it's better quality? I'll take almost anything, happily. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 20:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
It's not better quality, au contraire, sorry. Is this one, which I snitched from the NPG, too small for your requirements, then? Is it a lead pic for the bio you're after? Then it would be, I guess. I'm afraid my paperback First English Actresses has only very poor b&w reproductions inside. And while it has a fine big glossy Nell Gwyn.png on the cover, that's unfortunately got lettering on it. The g in "English" goes right down into her hair. :-( Bishonen | talk21:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC).
I just got Albion's Fatal Tree, and I've got a scanner, so I'll prolly scan some reproductions of gruesome things, but nothing as horrid as Nell Gwynn with a G-hair extension. Geogre21:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
(Response to Bish:) Image:Nell Gwyn.png is perfectly fine (although I do worry that it's one of those "thought to be" Nell Gwyns, and -- blatant original research ahoy! -- it doesn't overly much resemble the face in the few Lely paintings which more surely are her), I'm just fishing for more images to use in the piece. Thanks for looking, though. (To George:) Ouch! What's G-hair? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Maybe I'll just grab the excellent portrait from here. Or the whole thing! Short and to-the-point! ("Nell became the King’s girlfriend, even though he was already married." :-) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, the face is gonna be idealized, in't it? That's surely her. She's in some famous part of hers there, I'm pretty sure. And this engraving (not bad, is it?) by Thomas Wright is done "after" that Lely oil. This one, also Lely, is uggl-o-rama, but big and shiny. See here for provenance. Bishonen | talk21:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC).
Right, so what's a "sleeveless errand" ? ... Charles Sackvillewas sent on a sleeveless errand into France to be out of the way. (from his article) presumably so that the king could have his way with Nell ++Lar: t/c22:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Our articles are comprehensible and NPOV. The 1911's are only sometimes one or the other and rarely both together. A G-hair is like a G-string -- the third string of a guitar, or, in this case, the third hair of a bow. A "sleeveless errand" is one for a shop apprentice. You wear no sleeves when you're just a step 'n fetchit boy in a shop: Thus, Dorset was sent like a servant. There would have been no need, though: he had his own ladies and wouldn't have missed one or two. Geogre00:38, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
So...
...I'm an "encourager" now? I'd be kind of flattered if this wasn't connotative. XD. After all, it's not every day that I get promoted from regular user to encourager. Maybe I'll put it in my sig. Hmm. Anyway, I just wanted to remind you that while I do believe that some administrators are megalomaniacal and corrupt (although the jury is still out on you, LOL!), I originally defended Thewolfstar because I believed that people were not assuming good faith on her part, and also because she was a fellow Esperanzian. Because of paralanguage, this comment probably reads like it's annoyed and frustrated, but in honesty I'm just very amused. I can't wait to see what happens next! Besides, someone with a name like Bishonen must be one of the good guys. - Corbin15:31, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Eeps. Gomenesai. Just came back from the shower, and realized how rough the above comment sounds. Of course, it's too late to take it back, but I can at least apologize a bit. Also, was the primary reason for User:Dot Bitch's block the username or the suspected sockpuppetry? Just curious. Happy editing! - Corbin16:04, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I didn't think the username that bad myself — perhaps all the "bitchonen"'s and other wolfstar variants have blunted my sensibilities, you know — but considering Essjay's reaction to it, I blocked for username. However, I thought it also worth while to point out the sock suspicion. Even though CheckUser wasn't conclusive, Essjay seemed very sure that a new user with that IP had something to hide. And considering all the circumstantial suggestiveness of her few edits, this is the kind of case that would have been blocked as a sock "beyond reasonable doubt" before there was any CheckUser. I'm sorry to see that people keep assuming Macai is the same user; I hope you'll help me defend his right to edit.
I'm sorry if "encourager" sounded bad, I didn't mean it like that at all. You weren't encouraging her to go on insulting people, AFAIK, but more generally to "hang in there"; that's fine by me. I was merely trying to speak economically in using the word. However, since I'm about to vote on your RFA, I might as well mention here that I do have a problem with some of your other input in this case, notably your vague but far-reaching assumptions of corruption and conspiracies among admins, your ... well... I'm trying to find a polite way of saying this, you understand ... no, there isn't one ... ok, with what looks, to my perhaps jaundiced eye, like heroic posturing on WP:ANI, "daring" to speak out in favor of the courageous underdog critic who has been blocked by admin conspiracy, for which signal act of integrity you obviously risk being blocked yourself... sorry, but that's how your tone reads to me. I find it far more objectionable than your message above, which doesn't look rough to me. My problem is with seeing you as Emile Zola, or Thewolfstar as Alfred Dreyfus. The jury's in now, I'm sure.
Eh, there's a lot I want to say, but everybody's heard it already. Basically, the reason I keep picking at little suggestions of corruption and abuse of power is to be extremist. After all, without extremists, there is stagnation. It's entirely possible that there are no corrupt administrators and that everybody else simply has a better grip on reality and policy than me. Administrators are given power through a social contract with the community, and it is my firm belief that administrators should answer to the community when they have to, and it frustrates me sometimes to see the kind of power that you guys have being tossed around lightly sometimes. That's why I won't reapply for administrator when my current RfA fails — if the community really trusts me with power, they'll give it to me when the time is right. As for "encourager," don't worry; the word is decently neutral, and has a very cool denotation. Turn that frown upside down, LOL! *hug* - Corbin22:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
