This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Humanpublic (talk | contribs) at 00:30, 21 March 2013 (→Topic ban). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 00:30, 21 March 2013 by Humanpublic (talk | contribs) (→Topic ban)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)quitting this facade for the promotion of Christianity, and the egos of admins. Humanpublic (talk) 15:34, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks; also I forgot WP:IDONTCARE
Basket Feudalist 17:42, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks; also I forgot WP:IDONTCARE
Spot on!
Yep. Basket Feudalist 17:43, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Facade?
"...facade for the promotion of Christianity"? You've got to be kidding. This website has been alleged to be controlled by atheists, homosexuals, religionists, porn-purveyors, left-wing radicals, right-wing radicals, any ethnic group you can name, and even the "circumcision cabal" (I kid you not), and a host of other lobbyists. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 11:46, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- But Bugs, doesn't the exclusion of one's fringe and unsourced personal agenda obviously means that the site is intentionally and systematically supporting the very thing that one is blindly biased against. I mean, that's what "two wrongs make a right" means, doesn't it? I don't know why we have WP:GEVAL. </WP:sarc> Ian.thomson (talk) 14:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'd echo what Bugs has said – take a look at WT:WikiProject Conservatism for example. And then there are the BC/AD vs. BCE/CE WP:ERA warriors (and music genre changing warriors)... Humanpublic, I'll offer the advice that you need to be somewhat thick-skinned in order to prosper here. So maybe wait a few days or weeks and come back with a fresh perspective. Misplaced Pages is a big tent and I'm sure there are far more like–minded folks around here than you might imagine. And Ian, I'd say questioning the resurrection of Jesus is hardly a fringe theory – even if limited to English speakers only...but I understand your point. Mojoworker (talk) 17:12, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- Mojoworker, merely "questioning the resurrection of Jesus" (which I completely grant many scholars do and that our articles should not be written to deny that) is not what Humanpublic has been up to. He's been fighting against the very possibility that there existed a Jewish apocalyptic teacher (common in Roman Judea) and possible Messiah claimant (also not uncommon at the time) named Yeshua (an extremly common name during the time) who might have been heard by individuals who developed the early Christian church and had been the inspiration for the Jesus worshiped in Christianity. He's pretty much lumped in agnostic and atheist scholars like Bart D. Ehrman in with Christian theologians in his continued insistend that there's no true Scot- I mean scholarly support for the historical existence of Jesus (not Jesus's divinity or humanity, but mere existence). Even Robert M. Price, who denies the historical existence of Jesus, admits that the idea Jesus didn't exist is a fringe view not supported by the majority of scholarship. Humanpublic has also accused many users of being Christian POV-pushers (as if only Christians claimed Jesus existed) for simply not helping his crusade to present that fringe theory as a proven fact in the article. Ian.thomson (talk) 18:17, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- A single-purpose account, by definition, lacks broader exposure to wikipedia, and thus assumes that whatever barrier he's run into on a particular subject somehow reflects the general situation. As an example, someone with an axe to grind against a particular company will accuse neutral POV editors of "working for" that company. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:22, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- Mojoworker, merely "questioning the resurrection of Jesus" (which I completely grant many scholars do and that our articles should not be written to deny that) is not what Humanpublic has been up to. He's been fighting against the very possibility that there existed a Jewish apocalyptic teacher (common in Roman Judea) and possible Messiah claimant (also not uncommon at the time) named Yeshua (an extremly common name during the time) who might have been heard by individuals who developed the early Christian church and had been the inspiration for the Jesus worshiped in Christianity. He's pretty much lumped in agnostic and atheist scholars like Bart D. Ehrman in with Christian theologians in his continued insistend that there's no true Scot- I mean scholarly support for the historical existence of Jesus (not Jesus's divinity or humanity, but mere existence). Even Robert M. Price, who denies the historical existence of Jesus, admits that the idea Jesus didn't exist is a fringe view not supported by the majority of scholarship. Humanpublic has also accused many users of being Christian POV-pushers (as if only Christians claimed Jesus existed) for simply not helping his crusade to present that fringe theory as a proven fact in the article. Ian.thomson (talk) 18:17, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'd echo what Bugs has said – take a look at WT:WikiProject Conservatism for example. And then there are the BC/AD vs. BCE/CE WP:ERA warriors (and music genre changing warriors)... Humanpublic, I'll offer the advice that you need to be somewhat thick-skinned in order to prosper here. So maybe wait a few days or weeks and come back with a fresh perspective. Misplaced Pages is a big tent and I'm sure there are far more like–minded folks around here than you might imagine. And Ian, I'd say questioning the resurrection of Jesus is hardly a fringe theory – even if limited to English speakers only...but I understand your point. Mojoworker (talk) 17:12, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- I suggest all of you stop using this talk page as a forum for discussing HP (as well as other unrelated topics) in HP's absence. Give it a rest.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:29, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Well, OK, but he's never been blocked, and he's free to comment here at any time, if he wants to. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:21, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Vanishing
If you wish to vanish, please follow the instructions here. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:18, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
- brilliant Humanpublic (talk) 15:49, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
AN
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Jeppiz (talk) 18:31, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Leaving the wiki?
You have requested that your account be vanished, however since doing so you have continued to involve yourself in several ongoing content disputes. An editor who vanishes is expected to refrain from involvement in the issues which led them to request vanishing. If you have changed your mind and wish to continue editing Christianity-related articles, you should contact the bureaucrats and withdraw your request for vanishing. If you still wish to be vanished, you should probably refrain from entering new disputes like the one on Talk:Argument from silence. -- LWG 18:35, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- I read the page on vansihsing, which said if I didn't want to provide my email, I should use the public page.
- No link was given to a public page.
- I left a msg for a "functionary" as instructed.
- The functionary said he couldn't do anything. Another editor emailed a "bureacrat."
- A bureaucrat left a msg on my talk page, referring me to #1.
- I don't have any reason to think bureaucrats are processing any request. Humanpublic (talk) 18:51, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- Do you, however, still wish to have your account vanished, or do you no longer wish for this to be done? Either way, I would be glad to help you find the appropriate people to get it done/canceled. As things stand, nobody knows if you still intend to leave. -- LWG 19:01, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'm undecided. I'm still learning how Misplaced Pages works. I don't like how easy it is for editors like Jeppiz who know how to manipulate admins to manipulate admins. Humanpublic (talk) 19:10, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- In that case, I strongly suggest that the very first step you take is to publicly announce that you are taking a break from editing controversial articles, and stick to your word on that. That will put you off your current trajectory which is almost certain to end in a block. Then, I suggest you devote some time to making minor, non-controversial edits to unrelated articles, and also familiarizing yourself with wiki culture. That is something I would be happy to help you with. Finally, I suggest you only return to controversial subjects like Christianity once you have built both some credibility as a good faith contributor and some experience in the kind of tact that is necessary to gain agreement when such wildly varying viewpoints are at play. As things stand, you are appearing as a one-issue editor who is only here to wage a crusade against perceived bias, and editors like that almost always get banned. If you have any questions about anything, do not hesitate to ask me. -- LWG 19:28, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- End in a block, without a single example of how I've violated an actual rule? I wouldn't be surprised. Humanpublic (talk) 19:29, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- I will attempt to help you understand what behavior leads to a block when I have time for a longer discussion, but the immediate priority is to stop that from happening. You may want to look at the story of WalkerThrough, another editor who I worked with in the past. He was eventually banned under almost identical circumstances to yourself: he failed to heed warnings and continued to crusade against what he saw as a biased cabal of editors who manipulated admins to support their views. If you look through the discussions, you may even see some of the very same names who are currently giving you trouble. The kicker: WalkerThrough was a religious fundamentalist, and was mad that the article did not fully support the biblical account of Jesus. -- LWG 19:38, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- I really have no idea what you're talking about. My last edits were not to a religious article. Just because Jeppiz says something in a complaint doesn't make it true. Please do some actual research before jumping to conclusions. I find it interesting that you came here having already taken sides on the issue, without even asking for my side. Thanks for the offer of "help" but I don't need help from editors who prejudge me. Humanpublic (talk) 19:41, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- I have taken and will take no side on the content issues here (and as you said I have not yet fully examined them). I am attempting to take your side on the policy issue, to keep you from being banned like many other editors before you who have tried to fight bias without understanding how wiki disputes work. -- LWG 19:45, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Plagiarism in History of the Jews in Spain
On a totally unrelated note, while looking at your edit history I noticed that you said almost a year ago that you believed this article was copy/pasted from another source. Did you have any idea of what the source was so we can look into copyright concerns? -- LWG 19:59, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
- I don't remember but I'll take a look. Of course, this violates my impending ban on Christianity-related subjects.Humanpublic (talk) 00:23, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- An impending ban is not a ban, and contributing constructively there will help you avoid the ban happening at all. -- LWG 00:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Topic ban
This message is to inform you that you have been indefinitely banned from editing articles related to faith and religion, broadly construed, as per the WP:AN discussion. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- What exactly does "related to faith and religion broadly construed" mean? Looks like a setup to accuse him of something in the future. That was nothing but a lynch mob. Strangesad (talk) 12:58, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- How do I appeal? And what does "indefinite" mean anyway? There were a lot of false statements made in that discussion. Humanpublic (talk) 13:05, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- Indefinite doesn't mean "infinite" but it means "until no set date." Generally, appeals are made after 6 months to AN or if you do not want to wait six months then you proceed to Arbcom for an appeal. Generally these are only heard after extensive dispute resolution and they may not accept a case where they feel the community has already handled it so a careful argument must be made that rigorously adheres to Misplaced Pages policies.
@Strangesad: It generally means that any articles whose primary topic is related to faith is off limits. Such as topics about prominent religious figures, biographies, artifacts, scriptures/literature, ect (not an all inclusive list). However, it doesn't usually cover subjects where faith is not a prominent theme. Such as Mitt Romney where he is religious but the primary theme is politics. However, Humanpublic would be prohibited from making edits about his religious even though he could reasonable edit the rest of the article. It's a judgement call and it's generally best to stay far away from the line.--v/r - TP 14:41, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- The atheist loses again . That process was a witch-hunt. I would have voted to oppose, had it not closed in less than 24 hours. Unlikely similar behavior for a different cause would have had a similar result. Welcome to the "neutrality" of Misplaced Pages. Minorview (talk) 18:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's hilarious when POV pushers dispute our neutrality when we don't slant toward their POV. Go ahead, Minorview, and spread to all of your friends how 'the atheist loses again' because the atheist couldn't handle not having things his own way. You're too 'smart' and 'realistic' to see your own arrogance and hypocrisy. Unless it's your viewpoint, it's not neutral. Hmm, who does that sound like? How about it sounds like every religion out there?--v/r - TP 18:24, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- You prove the point. Examples of disruption used in this ban were accusing editors of things like "arrogance and hypocrisy." Minorview (talk) 19:24, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- Can't help you there, try working with other editors instead of targeting articles of topics where you want to right great wrongs through the use of Misplaced Pages.--v/r - TP 19:53, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- You prove the point. Examples of disruption used in this ban were accusing editors of things like "arrogance and hypocrisy." Minorview (talk) 19:24, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's hilarious when POV pushers dispute our neutrality when we don't slant toward their POV. Go ahead, Minorview, and spread to all of your friends how 'the atheist loses again' because the atheist couldn't handle not having things his own way. You're too 'smart' and 'realistic' to see your own arrogance and hypocrisy. Unless it's your viewpoint, it's not neutral. Hmm, who does that sound like? How about it sounds like every religion out there?--v/r - TP 18:24, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- The atheist loses again . That process was a witch-hunt. I would have voted to oppose, had it not closed in less than 24 hours. Unlikely similar behavior for a different cause would have had a similar result. Welcome to the "neutrality" of Misplaced Pages. Minorview (talk) 18:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- Indefinite doesn't mean "infinite" but it means "until no set date." Generally, appeals are made after 6 months to AN or if you do not want to wait six months then you proceed to Arbcom for an appeal. Generally these are only heard after extensive dispute resolution and they may not accept a case where they feel the community has already handled it so a careful argument must be made that rigorously adheres to Misplaced Pages policies.
- How do I appeal? And what does "indefinite" mean anyway? There were a lot of false statements made in that discussion. Humanpublic (talk) 13:05, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Is that directed at me? I have no interest in righting great wrongs. I have an interest in pointing out what the sources say. But the "arrogance and hypocrisy" of certain editors makes that contentious. Humanpublic (talk) 00:05, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
- No, it wasn't. I'm sorry for the cross-chat on your talk page.--v/r - TP 00:21, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
- Looking through the discussion again, I am confused about two things. First, the initial proposal was for articles related to Christianity. Some editors specified a vote regarding all matters of "religion broadly construed", others specified Christianity, and most just voted "support." I don't see how there can be a clear consensus for all articles on faith/religion, when the proposal was for Christianity, and most voters didn't specify. Second, the proposal said nothing about Talk pages, and the ban notice says nothing about Talk pages. Humanpublic (talk) 00:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC)