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May 24, 2013

May 23, 2013

  • (Discuss) – Deaf Jam (2011 Documentary) → Deaf Jam – Requesting a name change due to issues of precision, as explained in the naming convention policies and guidelines. The old title, Deaf Jam (2011 Documentary), is too precise, while the proposed title, Deaf Jam, is precise enough to unambiguously indicate the topic, as it is the title of the film discussed in the article. According to a search of wikipedia, there is no article currently existing with that name, although the search redirects to Def Jam Recordings, which is an entirely different article title, with an essentially different spelling. The spelling of each title is fundamental to the content of the article, and as the they do not overlap, Deaf Jam, should be a legitimate title for this article. Madebyhand (talk) 19:42, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Chromatics → Chromatics (band) – I request that the article Chromatics, concerning the band by that name, be renamed to Chromatics_(band). This is in preparation for my publishing a new article about the company Chromatics, a manufacturer of color graphics display computers. I would name that article Chromatics_(computer_manufacturer) and request that both be placed into the Chromatic disambiguation page. Rdb112 (talk) 17:48, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

May 22, 2013

  • (Discuss) – Chak De! India → Chakde! India – Some sources say "Chak De", some say "Chakde". Can any Indian give any insight into which it's more likely to be? IMDB says Chakde, as does Amazon. So does this Times of India review. There are lots of other sources that also say Chakde. On the poster/cover CHAK and DE are in different colors, but are right next to each other like they are one word. Thoughts? Film Fan 22:10, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Korat, Thailand → Nakhon Ratchasima – Reverting undiscussed move. Nakhon Ratchasima is the city's official and widely recognised name. Its colloquial name, Khorat (โคราช), is also common, but I don't believe it is so overwhelmingly more common that it should be preferred to the official name. Not having a (city) disambiguator is in line with most other articles on Thai provincial capitals. Also, the name โคราช may be spelled Khorat according to the official Royal Thai General System of Transcription, or Korat, which is non-standard but may or may not be more common. The Google test is unhelpful here since results are polluted by the cat. Paul_012 (talk) 16:58, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

May 21, 2013

  • (Discuss) – Female genital mutilation → Female genital modification and mutilation – A precident is set to talk about the concepts of modification and mutilation collectively with the "genital modification and mutilation" article which links this as a main article. It appears that the terms modification and mutilation are often used to describe to identical procedures depending on whether or not a person consented to or is happy with the procedure. To be impartial, and keep a common format between our articles, the "M&M" wording should be used consistently. To be NPOV, we should neither assert a specific procedure as modifying or mutilating in nature, as that is something people can make their minds up about based on contrast claims by disagreeing parties who speak on the issue. Ranze (talk) 22:51, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Autonomous car → Driverless car – The "autonomous car" article was created and titled in 2003, when such cars were still essentially science fiction. The article included other terms not commonly used today, such as "autopilot car" and "autodrive car." Even then, however, the article used "driverless" more often than any other term. Since then, the term "driverless car" has become the most common term to refer to these vehicles. Google Trends shows a clear preference for "driverless car" among the public when performing web searches. But currently, searching for "driverless car" first brings up a Misplaced Pages page on the Google driverless car instead of the general subject. On Google News, driverless car appears significantly more common than autonomous car, though the article count can swing by entire orders of magnitude when simply advancing to the next page of results, suggesting no one count is reliable. This Misplaced Pages article claims without sourcing that "driverless" is an informal term. I don't know what determines general formality or informality, but formality isn't what Misplaced Pages's naming conventions aim for, anyway. Instead, they prefer common terms over technical ones, and natural, recognizable titles, as well. The talk page entry just above this one suggests "autonomous" may in fact be too technical for some, as editors are confusing "autonomous" with "automatic." "Driverless" may more clearly evoke the type of cars we're talking about, and may better be "a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject will recognize," as the guidelines suggest. Pdxuser (talk) 00:47, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

May 20, 2013

  • (Discuss) – Gabriele d'Annunzio → Gabriele D'Annunzio – * the most used spelling has a capitalized D. See the same lead of the article ("Gabriele D'Annunzio....sometimes spelled d'Annunzio") the Italian wikipedia page, IMDB (), the Encyclopædia Britannica (), the Enciclopedia Treccani (), the McGraw-Hill encyclopedia of world drama, the Merriam-Webster encyclopaedia (), the Encyclopedia of World Biography (), The Columbia encyclopedia of modern drama, The Encyclopedia of the Literature of Empire, almost all the monographies about him (eg Gabriele D'Annunzio: Poet of Beauty and Decadence, Gabriele D'Annunzio: Studio Critico, Gabriele D' Annunzio: Defiant Archangel, Gabriele D'Annunzio: le immagini di un mito, Gabriele D'Annunzio in France, Gabriele D'Annunzio by Charles Klopp) etc. etc. Cavarrone (talk) 09:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

May 19, 2013

  • (Discuss) – Deadmau5 → Deadmaus – To be moved as per MOS:TM, "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official," as long as this is a style already in use, rather than inventing a new one"; "Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration." Wetdogmeat (talk) 19:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – RK Celje Pivovarna Laško → RK Celje – The club's name is RK Celje, with Pivovarna Laško being solely the main sponsor of the club. Some Wiki examples show that the use of the article's name does not change with new sponsors and I think the sponsorship name can be explained in the lead (e.g. Slovenian PrvaLiga, Serie B etc.). Also, the club was founded in 1947 and Pivovarna Laško did not became the main sponsor until 1990. In addition, the official website of RK Celje is rk-celje.si. Ratipok (talk) 17:56, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

May 18, 2013

  • (Discuss) – Sign "O" the Times → Sign o' the Times – These articles were moved with little discussion, against the usual style and naming guidelines, and against the prevailing typography in sources, too. Here the "o'" is an abbreviation of "of" and should be treated as such, as in , , , , . Considering the number of possibilities of case, single-v-double, one-v-two quotes, the fact that about half of all books use the way that makes sense with respect to the meaning and normal title orthography is pretty clear evidence that it is not just acceptable, but widely preferred; the fact the WP has guidelines like MOS:CT and MOS:TM that suggest an English-like rendering with normal case makes it clear what WP prefers. Dicklyon (talk) 23:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

May 17, 2013

  • (Discuss) – Tech N9ne → Tech Nine – To be moved as per MOS:TM, "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official," as long as this is a style already in use, rather than inventing a new one"; "Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration Wetdogmeat (talk) 01:53, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Backlog

  • (Discuss) – Sunn O))) → Sunn (band) – To be moved as per MOS:TM, "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official," as long as this is a style already in use, rather than inventing a new one"; "Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration, or simply substitute for English words (e.g., ♥ used for "love")." Sunn O))) is pronounced simply "sun" - the O))) is a typographical representation of the sun; an unpronounced purely decorative special character, and in fact an abstract image. Wetdogmeat (talk) 19:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Restless (Faye Wong album) → ? – Even after failed attempts to change the title to pinyin title, I am still not confident that this album should stay as Restless. Fuzao (浮躁; lit. "float mania", according to Bing Translator) would mean many things, like Exasperation, Anxiety, or Impatience. However, if Fuzao (or Fuzao (album)) is not the title that others are favoring in, perhaps choose either Exasperation (album), Anxiety (Faye Wong album), Impatience (album), or another faithful, suitable name. As for common use of either name, amount of sources is scarce, and translated names are rarely used. Recent articles may have used Misplaced Pages as a translator, so let's not rely on them (yet). George Ho (talk) 07:22, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Fireball (liqueur) → Fireball Cinnamon Whisky – The brand name printed on the label of this product is the proposed name "Fireball Cinnamon Whisky". The proposed name is probably more recognizable to most people than "Fireball (liqueur)", and using that name would avoid the need for parenthetical disambiguation. The proposed name is already a redirect to this page, although it was briefly populated by an article created as a semi-duplicate by an inexperienced editor (from which some non-duplicate content was later merged into the "Fireball (liqueur)" article). BarrelProof (talk) 05:36, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Shin Dong-hyuk (human rights activist) → Shin Dong-hyuk – I had heard of Shin Dong-hyuk (born Shin In Geun) even before reading Blaine Harden's book, and after I have begun to read it, I've become even more astonished with this guy. I think he's far more notable than the South Korean footballer or the fictional character. Therefore he deserves the primary use of the article title "Shin Dong-hyuk". JIP | Talk 17:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC) JIP | Talk 17:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Anti-Christian violence in India → Persecution of Christians in India – The scope needs to be broadened to integrate the other incidents of intolerance and discrimination which were not necessarily violent in nature. BTW, Nobody could possibly say that it is not violence to burn or rape somebody. But it is after all triggered by and often condoned because of something more ingrained, that is hatred and intolerance. Violence is just one of many things that may originate from religious bigotry and intolerance against Christians. "Intolerance against Christians in India" is a broader topic and would include violence, intolerance. Only focusing on the violence while ignore the underlying manifestations of intolerance would not conducive for the development of the article.

    P.S. I am all for a move to Persecution of Christians in India (redirects to here) if one doesn't like the word "Intolerance". Mr T 17:26, 13 May 2013 (UTC) Updated to avoid redundant comments (esp. from Darkness Shines) on the minutiae of the semantics. Mr T 07:08, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

  • (Discuss) – Hoyle's fallacy → Hoyle's argument – I apologize for bringing this up again, but I believe that the title "Hoyle's fallacy" is non-neutral since not everyone agrees that Hoyle's argument was fallacious. Here is my evidence:*In his book The Fifth Miracle, physicist Paul Davies cites Hoyle's argument and seems to agree with it.*The Biological Universe by Steven J. Dick notes Hoyle's argument and says that Francis Crick held a similar although more moderate view and that according to Robert Shapiro, Hoyle's estimate of the probability of life forming was actually too high, following Harold J. Morowitz. For these reasons, it seems to me that some people accept Hoyle's line of reasoning, and so we should choose a more neutral title for this article. For what its worth, I also object to the statement "Who cares what biochemists think" made by User:Michael C Price on this talk page - biochemistry is actually quite relevant to the study of abiogenesis. Cerebellum (talk) 19:57, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Star Blazers 2199 → Space Battleship Yamato 2199 – This show is not called Star Blazers 2199. It is Space Battleship Yamato 2199. To call it otherwise is incorrect information. As of yet, there is no American version of this show, and if there is, there's no guarantee that it's going to be called Star Blazers.Therefore, for the sake of accuracy, It should be given the correct title . Relisted. BDD (talk) 18:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC) Enelsonian (talk) 05:51, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Carboniferous limestone → Carboniferous Limestone – This article is not simply about limestone of Carboniferous age - such an article would be of limited merit. Rather it is about the specific rock unit long recognised in Britain which is now formally accorded the status of supergroup. As such it constitutes a proper name - an alternative (and more formal) title would be Carboniferous Limestone Supergroup but that would be cumbersome for the wider WP readership and mention of that name is best made within the body text of the article, as with the older name 'CL Series' Relisted. BDD (talk) 18:29, 13 May 2013 (UTC) Geopersona (talk) 10:14, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Red Sorghum Clan → Red Sorghum – "Red Sorghum" is the title appearing on the front and back covers of this book and on pages 1 and 2 in its official English translation. Alternatively, "Red Sorghum: A Tale of China" is the title appearing on page 3 and on Amazon. "Red Sorghum Clan" appears to be Gothicartech's translation. "Red Sorghum" is also the title of a movie which is based on this book, but this monir ambiguity should not cause problems on wikipedia. Relisted. BDD (talk) 17:43, 13 May 2013 (UTC) 86.143.192.66 (talk) 22:45, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Dende (disambiguation) → Dende – Searching for "dende" on WP currently takes the reader directly to an article on a Japanese cartoon (List of Dragon Ball characters), to the section dedicated to a character named "Dende". This is a problem. Dendê is (evidently) the Portuguese word for palm, and "dendê oil" is palm oil. Penelope Cruz (playing a Brazilian character) mentions "dende oil" (spelled that way in the subtitles) in the English-language movie Woman on Top; because I'd never heard of it, I came here to find out what it is. It took me quite a bit of hunting to find that it's the same as palm oil. Searching WP for "dendê" correctly takes the reader to the Palm oil article. Because the character ê is not easy to type on an English language keyboard, "Dende" should be a dab page, giving the reader an opportunity to go to either of these two articles (or any others that may include "dende", "dendê" or any other spelling). Jim10701 (talk) 16:31, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Zhu Wen (Later Liang) → Zhu Quanzhong – While arguably Zhu Wen was the more well-known name, naming the article Zhu Quanzhong has the benefit of avoiding disambiguation — plus, that was the name he used for virtually his entire military career. An alternative is to move the article to Zhu Wen (displacing the disambiguation page), as this emperor/general, rather than the movie director, would clearly be the primary meaning of "Zhu Wen." Nlu (talk) 02:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – User:Ranze/Child genital mutilation → Genital mutilation of children – At Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Baby genital mutilation some critics brought up that the phrase I chose for this article's subject is not common enough. This appears to be a somewhat valid criticism. While I found several sources of this phrase, it is mostly on forums rather than cited works. I have added several references to support 3 alternate titles, one of which I am highlighting here. I believe 'children' is most common and the ideal, although other phrases like 'infant' or 'minor' have also been used in academic works. I believe that if this is moved, it would be more proper. In fact since I'm the only one who has contributed content, I am tempted to just make this move if it will avoid the deletion. Is that okay to do, moving while nomination is in process? Ranze (talk) 02:49, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Tank truck → Tanker truck – Apparently, this is the U.S. name for a tanker truck. I disagree. I'm not a good source of information in every single situation, but I can say this--this American would never call a tanker truck a "tank truck" and definitely doesn't think most Americans do either. "Tank trucks", umm, I dunno, carry tanks? Red Slash 02:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Kutenai people → Ktunaxa – This was moved by a speedy and without an RM in June 2011, which apparently was done without reviewing the previous RM from 2009. As with others like Lillooet people and Thompson people, COMMONNAME and ENGLISH were cited as reasons, by ENGLISH does not apply, CANENGL does, and though this involves Montana and Idaho, the term "Ktunaxa" is accepted and used by the people in question there, though they do use the American English adaptation "Kootenai" (also used for the river on that side of the border); they also use "Ksanka". Ktunaxa is the preference of their pan-border organization, and is the norm for these people in English in Canada now, and the accepted standard. As for "COMMONNAME" there are 69,700 hits for "Ktunaxa" and only 12,600 for "Kutenai people", whereas the alternate spelling "Kootenai people" gets only 9,050 results. It's also used in the name of the group's online presence and is their official name and their own preference. Imposing a name on them without considering this was more than a bit colonialist and that should always be a consideration when writing/naming any article on indigenous peoples. This will also impact Category:Ktunaxa as has also been the risk/reality with such main-article changes. Impacts on categories are supposed to be considered when making a speedy; it was clearly not here, as with the other parallel cases, and the previous RM demonstrates citations which established the Ktunaxa name properly, but was ignored. Skookum1 (talk) 03:43, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – List of historical drama films → List of historical films – While the term "historical drama film" can be valid, I think the term "historical film" has much more common use. Searching the current term in Google Books does not show many good results. When one searches for the proposed term, there are numerous results, even books with "historical film" in the title. It is the same case when looking in Google Scholar and Amazon.com. I think "film" in "historical drama film" was an excessive modifier since "historical drama" can refer to a film (though not always). However, just "historical drama" already refers to historical fiction, which makes sense as a broad topic. That leaves "historical film" as the best option. I think it is beneficial to shorten the term to both be more concise and to be more in line with reliable sources. Thanks, Erik (talk | contribs) 17:16, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Thompson people → Nlaka'pamux – This move was done by a speedy change, not by RM, with COMMONNAME and ENGLISH being used as the reasons. But CANENGL applies on Canadian English articles on Canadian topics, and "Nlaka'pamux" is now the standard in Canadian English, and like other indigenous endonyms in Canada is now the expected norm. Unlike the parallel RMs at Lillooet people/St'at'imc and Chilcotin people/Tsilhqot'in, where there is a marked difference in google results, the difference in google results here is marginal, though still in favour of Nlaka'pamux, which gets 28,200 results vs for "Thompson people" there are 28,000 - but a glance at the first page of that search demonstrates that not all of those are about these people. I don't have t ime at the moment to search on media sources such as the Vancouver Sun or The Tyee, which are in British Columbia, or in the Globe and Mail....but I know the results will overwhelmingly favour "Nlaka'pamux"....as do the people themselves. Also leaving this article the way it is will inevitably bring about a CfD, even a CFDS, to Category:Thompson people from the current Category:Nlaka'pamux. It says right on the "move" page that impacts on categories and other articles should be kept in mind; here they weren't.` Skookum1 (talk) 13:28, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Shuswap people → Secwepemc – This move was made in error, as "Shuswap people" is NOT the COMMONNAME usage and CANENGL applies, not ENGLISH in its global context. "Secwepemc" is now the standard in Canadian English, and is regularly used by major media and local media as well as academia and by the peoples/governments/organizations themselves, as can be seen in the cites. A google search for "Secwepemc" yields 83,900 results while for "Shuswap people" yields 4,780 results. Indigenous endonyms are now the norm in Canadian English and the expected standard. Skookum1 (talk) 13:16, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Lillooet people → St'at'imc – User:Kwamikagami was in error about COMMONNAME and ENGLISH. CANENGL applies on Canadian articles, and "St'at'imc" is the modern standard and accepted usage for this people...including by themselves. As for the COMMONNAME part, "St'at'imc" (without quotes, or else the result is 26,000,000) yields 200,000 results, "Lillooet people" yields only 5,130. The other problem with the current title is it will cause complications if someone tries to move the category associated with these people to "Lillooet", as has already come up in a CfR opposing my contention it should be Category:St'at'imc. "St'at'imc" is what you will find in media coverage, in academia, in the publications from the people themselves, generally without the diacriticals, just those in the Halkomelem version of "Sto:lo" are omitted, other than the colon. What I'm saying, also is that this IS English. Canadian English. CANENGL applies, and "strong national sentiment" also. Skookum1 (talk) 13:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Chilcotin people → Tsilhqot'in – Moving this to its current title in June 2011 was not only controversial, and should have been a proper RM rather than a speedy move (by User:Kwamikagami as was the case. He cited COMMONNAME and ENGLISH as the rationale, but the latter does not apply, as CANENGL applies (whatever the proper wiki-shorthand for "using Canadian English in Canadian articles", and "Tsilhqot'in" is now the standard in Canadian English and is so-used by the media and both local and national media to refer to these people; it's also obviously used on most of the cites given, including the Tsilhqot'in National Government's webpage at http://www.tsilhqotin.ca. It doesn't matter if the ethnolinguistic community outside of Canada see "Chilcotin" as the most common name; it's not in Canada, and is considered by the people themselves "a white man's usage".....they also use it to distinguish themselves from the other uses of Chilcotin. If this name change stands - and it never should have been allowed IMO - then the complications of renaming Category:Tsilhqot'in will follow, as they have for what is now Category:Squamish; perhaps the templates have also been affeced, which means TfDs...all because someone pulled a speedy without considering the consequences, and by mis-citing COMMONNAME and ENGLISH....ever heard of MOSFOLLOW? This is not the only case of such ill-advised and arbitrary imposition of "outside language" on Canadian topics, particularly on FN/indigenous topics. Indigenous endonyms are now common fare in Canadian English and are, in fact, the expected standard. Oh, for the sake of argument, the google stats for "Tshilhqot'in" are phttps://www.google.co.th/search?q=tsilhqot'in&aq=f&oq=tsilhqot'in&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l3.4644&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 42,700] - for "Chilcotin people" they're only 6,740. Skookum1 (talk) 12:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Scrum (development) → Scrum (software development) – The word Scrum is used with reference to Software Development, just like Sprint, since that page uses the article name - Sprint (Software_Development), i would suggest that even this page should use a similar syntax/nomenclature policy and get renamed to Scrum (Software_Development). I think i should consider public opinion and hence posted this here. If consensus is not reached or no opinions turn up, i shall myself blank the current page and create a new one as i mention. Agile Editing! Compfreak7 (talk) 14:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Atlatl → Spear-thrower – Article just merged (without any prior discussion) with Spear-thrower, which is the general term used in archeology etc for this form of tool and weapon found from prehistory all over the world. Atlatl was the Aztec word for them (and there is nothing about Aztec use in the article) and has in recent decades been used by American sporting revivalists. It is unknown outside the Americas, and not even used by archeologists except for Mesoamerica. Per WP:COMMONALITY we should use the term which is understood worldwide. Johnbod (talk) 23:06, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Lasagne → Lasagna – This article from its beginnings has seen multiple undiscussed moves back-and-forth between the two titles, the most recent coming in 2012 to "lasagne". It should be noted that there has never been a consensus reached, but rather several unilateral moves with little policy backing and no support from Wiki guidelines backing them. As per WP:UE and English use here, this is our best choice. While British usage does favor the "e" spelling, American English goes with the "a" variety by a landslide. And again, there's not really a long-standing variety of English here that I found (see diffs "a" here and "e" here and "a" here and "a" here up through this "e" version). I don't see any reason to override the more common of the two spellings. This is similar to Grey, I think, where despite the article originally existing at Gray they moved because the "a" spelling was more startling to UK English readers than the "e" is to AmE readers. And here I think it's the other way. What do you think? Red Slash 00:26, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
  • (Discuss) – Bondage (BDSM) → Bondage (sexual) – As explained in the above section, bondage (in terms of tying people up for pleasure) doesn't necessarily involve BDSM. Bondage can be done for purely visual, tactile and aesthetic purpose, without any connection to sexual intercourse or domination/submission. JIP | Talk 18:25, 6 May 2013 (UTC) JIP | Talk 18:25, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
  1. http://www.bgs.ac.uk/Lexicon/lexicon.cfm?pub=CL BGS rock lexicon