Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Viriditas (talk | contribs) at 00:27, 29 May 2013 (→Message for Jytdog: re). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

In this world, hatred has never been defeated by hatred. Only love can overcome hatred. This is an ancient and eternal law. –Dhammapada (1:5)

Thank you

Thank you for restoring the pre-Qworty heading to the page for Roberta Brown as well as assessing the pages quality. It was a courageous and kind move, as well as a bold edit to increase accuracy.75.173.133.250 (talk) 05:14, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

You are very welcome. Viriditas (talk) 21:17, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Hiya

I thought you might be interested in contributing to a deletion discussion here based on your interest in related subject matter. Thanks, petrarchan47tc 23:23, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Is User:Colonel Warden engaging in some kind of POV pushing campaign? If so, perhaps a topic ban is in order. Viriditas (talk) 21:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Your suggestion does apply to one editor, but it's not the Col. I've not run into him before. petrarchan47tc 22:33, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Having experienced this illogical overreaction which has no basis in policy or RS changed my mind about your suggestion. Yes, I agree entirely. petrarchan47tc 03:02, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Viriditas/Arbcom

User:Viriditas/Arbcom, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Viriditas/Arbcom and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Viriditas/Arbcom during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 16:48, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow, once again you ignored following the instructions. 1) You are supposed to ask me to delete it prior to MfD, and 2) The page gives you instructions as to how to delete it. Why you brought this to MfD only shows that you can't follow instructions. Viriditas (talk) 20:36, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

How are things going?

I hope everything is well with you these days? I have to look closer but I thought I saw a bad faith assumption.--My76Strat (talk) 05:39, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Viriditas (talk) 06:43, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Trance Mission

Don't know if you've seen these, but I thought you might enjoy them: Red Rock and Tjilpi . Rosencomet (talk) 13:42, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Block

• JamesB, could you explain a bit more about your block? Who was Viriditas edit warring with, and where? A bit more detail would help some of us to understand the reasoning behind it. Thanks. Jusdafax 09:21, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
  • It's not that important. This is the third block I've received for reverting a sock puppet. The community process (CU) failed to link this puppet with the master (CU did not find any convincing technical evidence as they were posting from different continents) so he's been allowed to run rampant on the Misplaced Pages. I'm happy to take the two week block if that means the puppet will remain blocked as well. Viriditas (talk) 09:28, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
    • After looking a bit deeper, I understand. May I suggest when the dust settles that you consider an unblock request? Under the circumstances, you may be unblocked early. Thanks for your principled stand against socking: it appears to me that you are in the right of it. Jusdafax 09:39, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Message for Jytdog

User:Jytdog, for whatever reason or motivation, you've made numerous false statements over at March Against Monsanto, so I feel the need to correct you for the record:

1. You claimed that it was impossible for an RT article dated May 24 to support the statement that 2 million attended the protest ("Over two million march the streets of 436 cities, 52 countries") because the protest occurred the next day on May 25. However, you completely failed to notice that the RT article was edited at May 26, 2013 05:38. Note, as of 2013, it is common for news sources to file an initial report and update the same page as the story changes. You've been here since 2008, so I'm a bit surprised you would make such a strange, unusual claim, even when you had the AP sources right in front of you. Forgive me, but I'm a bit skeptical of your presence in that article, considering your personal, ongoing interest in the business of biotechnology.

   Point taken, RT source can come in. Sorry I missed the update. It would be helpful if the citation stated the update date so that it is accurate. Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   Clearly, RT was citing AP and/or the organizers.. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

2. Regarding the 2 million figure, you repeatedly claimed that "The organizers are not reliable sources for numbers. You can say "organizers said 2M" but not as fact" and you repeatedly deleted this number because you claimed it "cannot be used as a statement about the world, but as a statement of something that they claim". Meanwhile, multple versions of an Associated Press report were released saying both, including "Two million people marched in protest against seed giant Monsanto in hundreds of rallies across the U.S. and in over 50 other countries on Saturday" and "Organizers say two million people marched in protest against seed giant Monsanto in hundreds of rallies across the U.S. and in over 50 other countries on Saturday." It is not clear which one was the original story or why it was changed (Monsanto got to them!) but your rationale for deleting it isn't and wasn't supported at any time. Whether it was reported as a straight fact by the AP or attributed to organizers, there's no rationale for deletion here. All protest numbers are estimated, either by organizers or by officials.

   Yes I stand by this. The site of the organizers is not a reliable source, and quotes from the organizers are not reliable. Information they provide about what they do needs to be attributed to them and cannot be stated as facts about the world. This is common practice on Misplaced Pages. If you want to do an RfC on this, you would see that. Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   You are still not making sense. The AP was cited not the group or their website. The AP is the reliable source here, so you continue to be wrong in this matter. I do not require an RfC, I require you to stop making false claims about the sources. AP is a reliable source about the number of people involved regardless of whether they are attributing the number to the organizers or not. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

3. You removed "their first worldwide protest", strangely claiming that "we have no idea if there will be more...and "worldwide" because evidence for that is thin now and it sounds mighty promotional". I'm sorry, what? The sources quite clearly indicate that this was their first worldwide protest and that they are planning additional protests. And, how can you possibly say that evidence for their global protest is "thin" and sounds promotional? Exactly, what are you basing this on? There are hundreds of photos, videos, and news reports from all over the world documenting this protest. Are you really questioning that it occurred? That's the kind of bizarre statement I would expect from someone working for the Biotechnology Industry Organization, not from a Misplaced Pages editor.

   Yes, "first" is promotional. They may only do one. If they do two, then "first" makes sense. As for thin, right now we have sources for the US, Argentina, and Canada. That is indeed thin evidence for the global scope of the protests. If more comes in, then we can state in Misplaced Pages's voice that they were global. You will notice that I added content and sources on where protests occurred and the numbers who attended. So, no, I do not doubt that protests occurred. Nobody should take at face value the organizers' claims of how many protests occurred and where and the overall number - on Misplaced Pages we need reliable, secondary sources for such facts. Jytdog (talk) 14:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   You are repeating the same false claims again. There is nothing promotional with indicating this was their first protest as they are planning more. The sources support this statement. Also, the sources describe the global scope of the protests in spades, and your repeated denial is disturbing. Do you work in the biotechnology industry? It seems your COI is interfering with a neutral and accurate reading of the sources. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

4. You claimed that you deleted the content about the Senate rejection from the lead because "You cannot have content in lead that is not in body". That's about as specious as it comes. This was a stub with no sections before I began editing it, and I was in the process of expanding it. If you felt strongly about moving it out of the lead, then you should have moved it into the body. Instead, you deleted it, even though it was sourced. The lead can most certainly have content that is not yet in the body, especially when it is in the transitioning stage from a stub to a start to a C-class article. Exactly how many minutes passed from the time I expanded it from a stub to a start-class article and you removed the content? Your rationale was specious and appears to be agenda-based.

   Actually I did move the information about the Senate vote from the lead to body, both times I did it. The way you expand an article, is that you build the body and the lead follows. Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   If this helps, here's another source for the global scope of the protests. It's from the German Spiegel Online (about as RS as one can get), and attests to protests in Germany, France, the US, the Netherlands, Sweden, Australia, Argentina. The second sentence of the article states that protests were held in about 250 cities worldwide. Sindinero (talk) 13:40, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   Sure that is helpful! You should add that to the article! You may get some pushback in that it is not English but hopefully it will be allowed.Jytdog (talk) 14:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

5. You removed the content about the Monsanto Protection Act calling it an "inaccurate description", and quite hilariously requested that I read the article that I linked. Well, truth be told, it was accurately paraphrased from the goddamn linked article, which is accurately sourced to Monsanto and the International Business Times. To add insult to injury, you also claimed you deleted it because it wasn't in the body, even as I was in the process of expanding the stub to a start and adding sections while also trying to add it to the body while you were reverting my edits. Sorry, Jytdog, but your little game is transparent.

   Yes your description of the Mon Prot Act was inaccurate. And yes you copied it from the critic's description of it, not Misplaced Pages's description. As I mentioned, the way you grow an article is that you build the body, and the lead follows.Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   Please demonstrate the inaccuracies. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

6. You claimed that discussing FDA labeling is off topic, which is quite possibly the most crazy thing I've ever read. Off topic? The entire protest movement is about labeling, you nincompoop. And the FDA is mentioned in every major source on this topic. The group objects to their ongoing conflict of interest of allowing Monsanto to regulate Monsanto from within the FDA itself. It's part of their mission statement. And there wouldn't have been a vote in California if it wasn't for the failure of the FDA to regulate GMO's in the first place. This isn't off topic, it's the locus of the entire dispute.

   With respect to Canal's motivation, if you find a source that says she was motivated by the the lack of a federal labeling requirement in the US, please feel free to add that. The sources I read all say that she was motivated by the failure of Prop 37. You cannot go beyond the sources - that is WP:OR. Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I would like to add that although my daughter was just out of the hospital, unable to march, we drove past the march in Akron, Ohio, beeping most of the way, we did consider ourselves to be a part of the march, thus raising the totals to 2,000,002. Carptrash (talk) 13:47, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Viriditas I see that you have been blocked for two weeks. I am sorry that this happened. btw I just noticed the quote at the top of your page... great aspiration! You have maligned me a lot in your comments above, and I do not deserve that. I hope you will be more WP:CIVIL, when you come back. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 14:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

If you've been "maligned" it's because I am frustrated with your repeated false claims, some of which you are continuing to repeat even when the sources clearly show otherwise. Your continued claim that this protest was neither the first one and your denial that it was global indicate to me that you have a serious COI (as reflected by your user page) and that you should not be editing this topic. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Amber Wolfe

I've restored this to User:Viriditas/Amber Wolfe minus the prose as some was definitely copyvio and I have concerns about the rest so aren't happy with undeleting that - I restored it all and then revdeled all previous versions as the best way of keeping the history for future use. Dpmuk (talk) 17:53, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Please move it to Rosencomet's user space and delete it from my page. He's the author and he should be working on it there. Where was the copyvio from? I was under the impression that he was the original author or had permission to use the material. Viriditas (talk) 19:06, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I've deleted the page. If they want me to recreate it in their space they should ask me and I'll gladly do so. As for the copyvio I can't remember what source was my concern. If they were the original author they would need to follow the directions at WP:DCM so we had a record of permission and I can find no record of this being done. Dpmuk (talk) 19:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)