Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Viriditas (talk | contribs) at 02:38, 4 June 2013 (→Message for Petrarchan47: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

In this world, hatred has never been defeated by hatred. Only love can overcome hatred. This is an ancient and eternal law. –Dhammapada (1:5)

Thank you

Thank you for restoring the pre-Qworty heading to the page for Roberta Brown as well as assessing the pages quality. It was a courageous and kind move, as well as a bold edit to increase accuracy.75.173.133.250 (talk) 05:14, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

You are very welcome. Viriditas (talk) 21:17, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Hiya

I thought you might be interested in contributing to a deletion discussion here based on your interest in related subject matter. Thanks, petrarchan47tc 23:23, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Is User:Colonel Warden engaging in some kind of POV pushing campaign? If so, perhaps a topic ban is in order. Viriditas (talk) 21:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Your suggestion does apply to one editor, but it's not the Col. I've not run into him before. petrarchan47tc 22:33, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Having experienced this illogical overreaction which has no basis in policy or RS changed my mind about your suggestion. Yes, I agree entirely. petrarchan47tc 03:02, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Viriditas/Arbcom

User:Viriditas/Arbcom, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Viriditas/Arbcom and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Viriditas/Arbcom during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 16:48, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow, once again you ignored following the instructions. 1) You are supposed to ask me to delete it prior to MfD, and 2) The page gives you instructions as to how to delete it. Why you brought this to MfD only shows that you can't follow instructions. Viriditas (talk) 20:36, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

How are things going?

I hope everything is well with you these days? I have to look closer but I thought I saw a bad faith assumption.--My76Strat (talk) 05:39, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Viriditas (talk) 06:43, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Trance Mission

Don't know if you've seen these, but I thought you might enjoy them: Red Rock and Tjilpi . Rosencomet (talk) 13:42, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Block

• JamesB, could you explain a bit more about your block? Who was Viriditas edit warring with, and where? A bit more detail would help some of us to understand the reasoning behind it. Thanks. Jusdafax 09:21, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
  • It's not that important. This is the third block I've received for reverting a sock puppet. The community process (CU) failed to link this puppet with the master (CU did not find any convincing technical evidence as they were posting from different continents) so he's been allowed to run rampant on the Misplaced Pages. I'm happy to take the two week block if that means the puppet will remain blocked as well. Viriditas (talk) 09:28, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
    • After looking a bit deeper, I understand. May I suggest when the dust settles that you consider an unblock request? Under the circumstances, you may be unblocked early. Thanks for your principled stand against socking: it appears to me that you are in the right of it. Jusdafax 09:39, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Message for Jytdog

User:Jytdog, for whatever reason or motivation, you've made numerous false statements over at March Against Monsanto, so I feel the need to correct you for the record:

1. You claimed that it was impossible for an RT article dated May 24 to support the statement that 2 million attended the protest ("Over two million march the streets of 436 cities, 52 countries") because the protest occurred the next day on May 25. However, you completely failed to notice that the RT article was edited at May 26, 2013 05:38. Note, as of 2013, it is common for news sources to file an initial report and update the same page as the story changes. You've been here since 2008, so I'm a bit surprised you would make such a strange, unusual claim, even when you had the AP sources right in front of you. Forgive me, but I'm a bit skeptical of your presence in that article, considering your personal, ongoing interest in the business of biotechnology.

   Point taken, RT source can come in. Sorry I missed the update. It would be helpful if the citation stated the update date so that it is accurate. Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   Clearly, RT was citing AP and/or the organizers.. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

2. Regarding the 2 million figure, you repeatedly claimed that "The organizers are not reliable sources for numbers. You can say "organizers said 2M" but not as fact" and you repeatedly deleted this number because you claimed it "cannot be used as a statement about the world, but as a statement of something that they claim". Meanwhile, multple versions of an Associated Press report were released saying both, including "Two million people marched in protest against seed giant Monsanto in hundreds of rallies across the U.S. and in over 50 other countries on Saturday" and "Organizers say two million people marched in protest against seed giant Monsanto in hundreds of rallies across the U.S. and in over 50 other countries on Saturday." It is not clear which one was the original story or why it was changed (Monsanto got to them!) but your rationale for deleting it isn't and wasn't supported at any time. Whether it was reported as a straight fact by the AP or attributed to organizers, there's no rationale for deletion here. All protest numbers are estimated, either by organizers or by officials.

   Yes I stand by this. The site of the organizers is not a reliable source, and quotes from the organizers are not reliable. Information they provide about what they do needs to be attributed to them and cannot be stated as facts about the world. This is common practice on Misplaced Pages. If you want to do an RfC on this, you would see that. Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   You are still not making sense. The AP was cited not the group or their website. The AP is the reliable source here, so you continue to be wrong in this matter. I do not require an RfC, I require you to stop making false claims about the sources. AP is a reliable source about the number of people involved regardless of whether they are attributing the number to the organizers or not. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

3. You removed "their first worldwide protest", strangely claiming that "we have no idea if there will be more...and "worldwide" because evidence for that is thin now and it sounds mighty promotional". I'm sorry, what? The sources quite clearly indicate that this was their first worldwide protest and that they are planning additional protests. And, how can you possibly say that evidence for their global protest is "thin" and sounds promotional? Exactly, what are you basing this on? There are hundreds of photos, videos, and news reports from all over the world documenting this protest. Are you really questioning that it occurred? That's the kind of bizarre statement I would expect from someone working for the Biotechnology Industry Organization, not from a Misplaced Pages editor.

   Yes, "first" is promotional. They may only do one. If they do two, then "first" makes sense. As for thin, right now we have sources for the US, Argentina, and Canada. That is indeed thin evidence for the global scope of the protests. If more comes in, then we can state in Misplaced Pages's voice that they were global. You will notice that I added content and sources on where protests occurred and the numbers who attended. So, no, I do not doubt that protests occurred. Nobody should take at face value the organizers' claims of how many protests occurred and where and the overall number - on Misplaced Pages we need reliable, secondary sources for such facts. Jytdog (talk) 14:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   You are repeating the same false claims again. There is nothing promotional with indicating this was their first protest as they are planning more. The sources support this statement. Also, the sources describe the global scope of the protests in spades, and your repeated denial is disturbing. Do you work in the biotechnology industry? It seems your COI is interfering with a neutral and accurate reading of the sources. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

4. You claimed that you deleted the content about the Senate rejection from the lead because "You cannot have content in lead that is not in body". That's about as specious as it comes. This was a stub with no sections before I began editing it, and I was in the process of expanding it. If you felt strongly about moving it out of the lead, then you should have moved it into the body. Instead, you deleted it, even though it was sourced. The lead can most certainly have content that is not yet in the body, especially when it is in the transitioning stage from a stub to a start to a C-class article. Exactly how many minutes passed from the time I expanded it from a stub to a start-class article and you removed the content? Your rationale was specious and appears to be agenda-based.

   Actually I did move the information about the Senate vote from the lead to body, both times I did it. The way you expand an article, is that you build the body and the lead follows. Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   If this helps, here's another source for the global scope of the protests. It's from the German Spiegel Online (about as RS as one can get), and attests to protests in Germany, France, the US, the Netherlands, Sweden, Australia, Argentina. The second sentence of the article states that protests were held in about 250 cities worldwide. Sindinero (talk) 13:40, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   Sure that is helpful! You should add that to the article! You may get some pushback in that it is not English but hopefully it will be allowed.Jytdog (talk) 14:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

5. You removed the content about the Monsanto Protection Act calling it an "inaccurate description", and quite hilariously requested that I read the article that I linked. Well, truth be told, it was accurately paraphrased from the goddamn linked article, which is accurately sourced to Monsanto and the International Business Times. To add insult to injury, you also claimed you deleted it because it wasn't in the body, even as I was in the process of expanding the stub to a start and adding sections while also trying to add it to the body while you were reverting my edits. Sorry, Jytdog, but your little game is transparent.

   Yes your description of the Mon Prot Act was inaccurate. And yes you copied it from the critic's description of it, not Misplaced Pages's description. As I mentioned, the way you grow an article is that you build the body, and the lead follows.Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

   Please demonstrate the inaccuracies. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

6. You claimed that discussing FDA labeling is off topic, which is quite possibly the most crazy thing I've ever read. Off topic? The entire protest movement is about labeling, you nincompoop. And the FDA is mentioned in every major source on this topic. The group objects to their ongoing conflict of interest of allowing Monsanto to regulate Monsanto from within the FDA itself. It's part of their mission statement. And there wouldn't have been a vote in California if it wasn't for the failure of the FDA to regulate GMO's in the first place. This isn't off topic, it's the locus of the entire dispute.

   With respect to Canal's motivation, if you find a source that says she was motivated by the the lack of a federal labeling requirement in the US, please feel free to add that. The sources I read all say that she was motivated by the failure of Prop 37. You cannot go beyond the sources - that is WP:OR. Jytdog (talk) 13:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I would like to add that although my daughter was just out of the hospital, unable to march, we drove past the march in Akron, Ohio, beeping most of the way, we did consider ourselves to be a part of the march, thus raising the totals to 2,000,002. Carptrash (talk) 13:47, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Viriditas I see that you have been blocked for two weeks. I am sorry that this happened. btw I just noticed the quote at the top of your page... great aspiration! You have maligned me a lot in your comments above, and I do not deserve that. I hope you will be more WP:CIVIL, when you come back. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 14:09, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

If you've been "maligned" it's because I am frustrated with your repeated false claims, some of which you are continuing to repeat even when the sources clearly show otherwise. Your continued claim that this protest was neither the first one and your denial that it was global indicate to me that you have a serious COI (as reflected by your user page) and that you should not be editing this topic. Viriditas (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Amber Wolfe

I've restored this to User:Viriditas/Amber Wolfe minus the prose as some was definitely copyvio and I have concerns about the rest so aren't happy with undeleting that - I restored it all and then revdeled all previous versions as the best way of keeping the history for future use. Dpmuk (talk) 17:53, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Please move it to Rosencomet's user space and delete it from my page. He's the author and he should be working on it there. Where was the copyvio from? I was under the impression that he was the original author or had permission to use the material. Viriditas (talk) 19:06, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I've deleted the page. If they want me to recreate it in their space they should ask me and I'll gladly do so. As for the copyvio I can't remember what source was my concern. If they were the original author they would need to follow the directions at WP:DCM so we had a record of permission and I can find no record of this being done. Dpmuk (talk) 19:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 09:20, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Message for Petrarchan47

Alternative radio host Thom Hartman claimed in an article on Truthout that media had largely ignored the protests...

User:Petrarchan47, this wasn't an article on Truthout. This was news commentary by Thom Hartmann from The Thom Hartmann Program, from a segment called "Thom Hartmann on the News". It was also syndicated and distributed by Talk Radio News Service as an opinion piece called "So Much For The Liberal Media". Truthout just provided a transcript from the show, so it should not be mentioned. Further, I don't think it is necessary or accurate to refer to him as an "alternative radio host" as he is nationally syndicated across the country. That's not "alternative" in any sense of the word, but rather very mainstream, so please remove that term. Finally, his opinion is held by just about every mainstream media critic so it's hardly an alternative opinion. It's a known fact that Monsanto exerts a great deal of influence on the media (see the Lawsuit against WTVT as only one small example) and that the U.S. government agencies responsible for insuring food safety and public health were infiltrated by Monsanto executives many years ago. There's nothing alternative about this at all, it's all a matter of public, historic record. In fact, the Government Accountability Office itself began investigating this alleged conflict of interest between Monsanto and the government in the early 1990s. The corporate media is in bed with Monsanto, so you won't find any of this on the nightly news. Viriditas (talk) 09:44, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey there, thank you for pointing this out. A simple fix. petrarchan47tc 06:12, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Message for bobrayner

User:Bobrayner, the statement you removed, "Critics say GMOs can lead to serious health problems and cause harm to the environment", explains one of the reasons cited by the activists for their march. It should not have been removed. Further, neither the FDA nor Monsanto have proven that GMO is safe, and it has been banned by most countries for this reason. That is the mainstream view. The fact that U.S. government regulatory agencies charged with insuring food safety have neglected their duties and have issued regulations by former Monsanto executives within their own ranks, presents not just a conflict of interest, but a systemic failure of government to insure the safety of the food supply.

Corporate spokesmen for Monsanto have gone on record saying that safety is not their responsibility while government regulatory agencies have claimed that food safety is not the responsibility of the government. In 1998, Monsanto's director of corporate communications infamously said, "Monsanto should not have to vouchsafe the safety of biotech food. Our interest is in selling as much of it as possible. Assuring its safety is the F.D.A.'s job"—while the FDA had previously gone on record in 1992 saying, "Ultimately, it is the food producer who is responsible for assuring safety". Sorry, but this refusal to take responsibility by the corporate and government sector supporting each other while patting each other on the back can't continue. As Kurt Eichenwald reported in 2001, the White House has worked closely with Monsanto through at least administrations to "get the regulations that it wanted":

What Monsanto wished for from Washington, Monsanto -- and, by extension, the biotechnology industry -- got. If the company's strategy demanded regulations, rules favored by the industry were adopted. And when the company abruptly decided that it needed to throw off the regulations and speed its foods to market, the White House quickly ushered through an unusually generous policy of self-policing. Even longtime Washington hands said that the control this nascent industry exerted over its own regulatory destiny -- through the Environmental Protection Agency, the Agriculture Department and ultimately the Food and Drug Administration -- was astonishing.

If both Monsanto and the government refuse to take responsibility for the safety of GMO's, then the burden continues to remain on those who claim they are safe, and what Monsanto is doing with the help of government regulatory agencies is forcing products that do not have a proven record of safety into the marketplace. That is not acceptable. Viriditas (talk) 03:03, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Max Blumenthal

This is just the funniest talk I've heard in ages. I'm not sure if I sent it to you before. (Click hour two and listen to the first 60 seconds to get a good sample.) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:27, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

User:Anna Frodesiak, thanks for the links. The podcast is pretty good, and I haven't yet seen his YouTube videos, so thanks for "turning me on". :) Viriditas (talk) 23:39, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Message for A13ean

User:A13ean, your recent series of edits removed sources about the topic sourced to the Associated Press and in their place, added off-topic sources that have nothing to do with this subject. You claimed that "there is broad scientific consensus that food on the market derived from GM crops pose no greater risk to human health than conventional food", yet you cited no reliable secondary source that actually says this. What you cited instead was a self-published news release by the AAAS that is full of fallacious arguments promoting Monsanto's products and their "special" relationship with regulatory agencies, while ignoring all of the problems with their products. I'm sorry, but we don't do science by press release. To date, there has been no effort to prove that GMO foods are safe, only unscientific and unethical calls by industry funded scientists to "prove it isn't safe". That's not science, and we all know what happened with DDT, PCBs, and BPA; the environmental costs of those "safe" products are still accruing. And what kind of ridiculous argument would highlight the safety of their products to conventional agriculture? Has the AAAS completely lost their minds? These same scientists insisted DDT, PCBs, and BPA were also safe and claimed that we had to prove they were unsafe, which was finally done after many decades. Of course, now the public has to foot the bill to clean up after the companies who claimed there was nothing wrong with their products, and we're still trying to fix the problems caused by their herbicides, insecticides, and fertilizers. That's your best argument for safety? Ridiculous! Further, you removed actual sources about this subject, in particular, the AP source about the protest and the aims and goals of protester which reflected the content you removed. This is totally unacceptable and your edits should be immediately reverted. Misplaced Pages isn't a propaganda mill for Monsanto and until you learn how to edit Misplaced Pages in accordance with our policies and guidelines, you should remove yourself from the topic. Viriditas (talk) 19:39, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Viriditas, please see the post on the talk page for a number of direct quote from policy organizations like the AAAS and from peer-reviewed metareviews, among others. I'm sorry you disagree with their conclusions, but the consensus is pretty clear. I understand your concerns about other environmental issues, and share many of them. Nothing I added to the article meets the definition of a press-release. What AP source are you referring to? I don't think I removed any non-blog journalistic sources. PS: I almost missed this -- did they ever get the system setup where I can see when you link my name on a talk page like that? Thanks a13ean (talk) 21:34, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I looked again and the only change to a source from the AP was the one I added. a13ean (talk) 21:43, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Message for Arthur Rubin

Live 5 freeway exits north of Disneyland.

User:Arthur Rubin, are you aware that your user page sounds remarkably like The Californians? :) Viriditas (talk) 23:30, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

(Notifications/Echo works....) I don't think I've watched SNL since they started that skit, so it's not intentional. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:37, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Arkon (talk) 04:54, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I miss Kristen Wiig! She made it worth watching. Viriditas (talk) 01:08, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Message for Ixfd64

User:Ixfd64, you removed the link to the Wikiquote page for UC Davis pepper-spray incident instead of piping the link which is found on Wikiquote at "Occupy UC Davis". The reason the quotes on this topic are found at a different title is because the Misplaced Pages page was moved to its current, more inclusive title about the historical incident and the Wikiquote page was never moved to reflect this. Please add the wikiquote link back into the article with a piped target. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 06:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Done. --Ixfd64 (talk) 05:37, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Message for Mann jess

User:Mann jess, regarding the edit war on militant atheism, 115.243.21.149 (talk · contribs) is editing from India and appears to have created Lagoy (talk · contribs), and looks remarkably similar to Anupam (talk · contribs) who vanished in late February. Viriditas (talk) 07:22, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

My name is Michael. I am an American living in India. I'm happy to share my contact information/facebook for verification. I just can;'t accept such a biased and inappropriate redirect of Militant Atheism. Lagoy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:27, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

The redirect was placed according to consensus and Anupam (presumably also living in India based on his comments) was the only person who objected and edit warred over the redirect. Lots of coincidences there. I assume that you are both Christian missionaries living in India? Viriditas (talk) 07:37, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

The IP address geolocates to Kolkata (Calcutta). Presumably, if the IP and Lagoy are socks of Anupam, then Anupam might be expected to have shown a greater interest in articles about Kolkata. This does not prove to be the case: Anupam touched Kolkata-related articles extremely rarely, and if so it was part of a series of similar edits performed sequentially on related articles, such as adding Hindi language to a series of Indian court articles. I do not think a case can be made for sockpuppetry. Binksternet (talk) 19:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I respect your opinion, but I can't see any difference between the two users, both of whom claimed to be in India. Anupam was the one who strenuously argued for a disambiguation page, and now this "new" user shows up from India strenuously arguing for a disambiguation page? I'm not buying it. New users don't even know what "disambiguation" means. Viriditas (talk) 23:04, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

And now he's role playing and pretending to be a "militant atheist" who is an expert on the topic. This is the kind of "block on sight" account that does nothing but troll that we've come to associate with Conservapedia minions and their followers. It's very surprising that editors are treating this obvious trolling as if it were a new account. It's one thing not to bite the newbies, but quite another to play the role of a rube who tries to buy the Brooklyn Bridge. Viriditas (talk) 23:27, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Let's remember who is behind this charade. Anupam (talk · contribs) disappeared from Misplaced Pages in February. Since that time, he has been editing the article Militant atheism on Conservapedia, with his last edit on May 26, 2013, just a week before Lagoy created his "new" account on Misplaced Pages and began engaging in the same Anupam-style behavior. I think this is clearly a duck quacking. Obvious sock is obvious. Viriditas (talk) 01:04, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm no fan of the way Anupam worked to make the militant atheism article be as much of an attack on new atheists as possible. Remember, I am part of the group who successfully argued Anupam down, and got the NOR- and POV-riddled article deleted. (I started in August 2011 by trimming 45k of fluff, repeatedly reverted by Anupam, then in September 2011 I started the discussion which resulted in the article getting deleted.) However, Anupam has been editing the Conservapedia article since May 2011 with a little tweak, then in September 2011 with a giant 130k dump of text that was brought there from here, when he saw how the deletion wind was blowing. That shows Anupam did not suddenly start working on Conservapedia after disappearing here in late February 2013. There is no causality or even coincidence between Anupam's timeline of editing and Lagoy's, or the IP from Calcutta. The only thing connecting them is the interest in having Misplaced Pages host this article. If you are right, though, it looks like Anupam may have waited just long enough for his account to become stale relative to checkuser before starting a sock. I expect no useful results from checkuser even if I could convince them to take the case. Binksternet (talk) 01:32, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh, my god. You people are nuts. Conspiracy theorists. I'm a fucking liberal, and American, and you think I'm some Hindi-speaking (I don't speak a word of Hindi) nutjob who edits for Conservapedia simply because I have an IP address in India, a country with more than 1 billion people? Jesus Christ. I don't even live in Kolkata; I have a dynamic IP through Reliance Communications, which sources from Kolkata and Mumbai, and perhaps even other cities. You people are crazy. I'm gone. (Lagoy (talk) 04:42, 3 June 2013 (UTC))

Look, when you troll a website, the first thing you need to do is remain consistent. You gave the game away when you wrote, "associating modern militant atheism, which is nothing more than New Atheism, with the Soviet Union can send the wrong message to believers or others who oppose atheists" and when you described yourself as a "militant atheist" who is only here to set people right on Dawkins, who is "encouraging" others to pursue militant atheism. Go back to Conservapedia, the jig is up. Viriditas (talk)

How Indian do I fucking look? Seriously. http://www.facebook.com/mike.lagoy Crazy people. (Lagoy (talk) 05:08, 3 June 2013 (UTC))

You are claiming that New Atheism is militant atheism. That's what Conservapedia claims on their website, and they cite Christian physicist Ian Hutchinson as their source. So, you are making all the same arguments as Anupam, whether or not you are both the same people. So, if you aren't citing Hutchinson, who are you citing? Previously you said Dawkins, but you were corrected on that point. Again, Conservapedia also claims Dawkins as their source. If you want to participate in that discussion and try to convince people you are right, then do so, but you will need to have good sources. Viriditas (talk) 05:33, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

But I wasn't actually corrected. The individual who cited the "New Encyclopedia of Unbelief" mis-cited that text as by Dawkins, when it was actually edited by Tom Flynn (Dawkins wrote the foreword). Richard Dawkins, in his February 2002 TED talk, encourages "militant atheism." The problem here is how we're looking at this. You're taking a relatively old meaning of "militant atheism," which supposes forceful suppression of religion; I am using the sense that is claimed by many strong atheists today, which simply implies aggressive opposition to religion. A simple search online for this sense arrives at many instances. It is in this sense, certainly not the former, that I would call myself a militant atheist, and I imagine it is in this same sense (unless he's a closeted Soviet) that Dawkins also encourages the term. Why is everyone so irrational, here? (Lagoy (talk) 05:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC))

I don't see anyone encouraging the term except Conservapedia, and they are using it as a pejorative. You are really going to need to do better than pointing people to a TED talk from 2002. Anyway, you don't need to convince me, you need to convince the people participating in the talk page discussion. Viriditas (talk) 05:57, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

FWIW, I worked with Anupam extensively, over a fairly broad range of articles, every day for many months. I don't believe Lagoy is Anupam. I disagree with his RM, but I don't find it implausible that someone would self describe as a "militant atheist" (indeed, I've met some who would). I think WP:BITE and WP:AGF are good advice in cases like this. It's good to look into this stuff, and information is always helpful, but as long as there's no disruption, we shouldn't aim to scare anyone away. Thanks for the message.   — Jess· Δ♥ 06:54, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Message for User:Thelmadatter

Lanier's suggestion of payment sounds like it would be of great benefit of those who control how that money is collected and distributed and perhaps secondly to those whose works are very widely read. I didnt see the video but I read his WP page. He forgets that the function of an encyclopedia is to remix and disseminate well-established information, not create something new.

User:Thelmadatter, your criticism appears misplaced and quite strange as you have the facts backwards. Micropayments under Lanier's model benefits the artists, writers, and contributors who do the work and who need to put food on the table. Lanier's criticism is well supported by solid evidence and it sounds like you should actually read it rather than commenting from ignorance. Further, the "function" of an encyclopedia has changed with the times, and Misplaced Pages's version of what an encyclopedia is supposed to be is unique and has little to no foundation. In other words, an encyclopedia is whatever we want it to be. Viriditas (talk) 23:52, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Some comments on your current disputes

I understand the high tensions on this talk page, but I think that it would serve youbetter if you did not post angry, vindictive talk-page messages to users whom you disagree with. Even though I am quite sure that you are correct on most counts, such comments will only result in more and more blocking. I, like you, have a strong desire to purge the useless, parasitic bottom-feeding cabals of POV-pushers and their enabling admins from the encyclopedia, perhaps banishing them to their own Internet forums where they can continue their disputes. I think that you should simply wait until you have a proper series of ArbCom cases, rather than rashly becoming the next large sacrifice to the Dark Side.

Someday, the parasitism will have to end—from Jimbo Wales to administrators, we will replace the current, unsustainable system with a new one built on order, efficiency, and protection of content builders. Even if the current situation is part of the battle to create such an improved system, it's best not to anger the beneficiaries of that system too much. Wer900 • talk 01:21, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I think you must have misread something. I am neither angry nor vindictive, nor do I have anything to be angry or vindictive about. I live in paradise and I'm content to never edit Misplaced Pages ever again. Viriditas (talk) 01:25, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

You are a valuable editor of this encyclopedia, and should not leave. After the blocking of Rich Farmbrough, I think that you are one of the most important symbols and actors of resistance for the rest of us slaves, who want to contribute to the sum of knowledge but get a very different treatment from the bottom-feeding warlords of the Web.

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		Thank you for serving our encyclopedia well for years, and for bravely persisting despite your endless recent hounding. You are a hero to us all, more of a god than Jimbo could ever hope to be. May you continue to champion our cause. Wer900 • talk 01:34, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Template:Z147

Message for Cla68

Then why don't you administrators do your jobs, investigate this situation total, and come to a conclusion instead of just trying to put a band aid over it.

User:Cla68, because then they would be called editors, not admins. Admins don't resolve anything, they just choose to ignore the problem, and failing that, block and walk away. Viriditas (talk) 22:55, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Message for Petrarchan47

User:Petrarchan47, you should be very careful on Talk:March Against Monsanto, as a13ean and IRWolfie and others are playing fast and loose with the facts, often twisting them. For example, look at a13ean and IRWolfie's hypocritical defense of the explicit opinion piece by Jon Entine, with IRWolfie making the claim that an opinion piece by Entine should be used! As you may well know, Etine is a huge promoter of GMO's who is affiliated with the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think tank that has worked very, very hard to undermine the medical and scientific evidence supporting environmental policies for decades, often with the help of corporate funding by the polluters who would be most impacted by environmental legislation. According to Wikispooks, there are obvious conflicts of interest at work with AEI working hand in hand with GMO lobbyists to promote their products. This is neither science nor skepticism, so look very carefully at the people a13ean and IRWolfie are quoting, as they are less than reliable sources. 02:38, 4 June 2013 (UTC)