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Requests for arbitration

Arbitration Committee proceedings Case requests
Request name Motions Initiated Votes
Yopie   26 June 2013 {{{votes}}}
Jmh649   22 June 2013 {{{votes}}}
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Yopie

Initiated by ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) at 00:37, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by ItsAlwaysLupus

I feel appalled at the disruptive behavior of User:Yopie whom I perceive as a person with personality and ethic issues. His repugnant, borderline racist behavior came to my attention after having to deal with him myself due to a dispute of me creating an article on prejudice against Hungarian people. As a minority person (actually a double minority, to coin such term ad-hoc) based in the Czech Republic it is extremely important for me that Misplaced Pages had an coverage on this topic because that is something I have to deal with in my everyday life on a regular basis but anyhow let's get back to what's really important in here, him, the User Yopie. He's seen engaged in variety of disputes, ranging from stalking the users (reported behavior by multiple witnesses), blanking the pages, to removing the user-warning templates (reported behavior by multiple witnesses), that he either fueled or initially started and for this he was banned for "tendentious edit warring" by Deacon_of_Pndapetzim (2009-03-01), followed by "Violation of the three-revert rule: 1942 raid in Novi Sad" by Hersfold and last but not least, "Edit warring: edit wars across multiple articles" by Bwilkins. Despite him joining Misplaced Pages on 2005 he only got himself to make six articles which is not exactly Hall of Fame many, and even a single-purpose spam account is expected to make more (which I originally perceived him to be one). He was approved of his Rollback user rights on June 16, 2010 and abused this privilege ever since. In the user's history, ANI and sysop-imposed blocks for disruptive behavior on Yupie had absolutely no effect on him whatsoever; he did not take the time to change his ways at all.

In conclusion, his only intention here is to cause disruption between the users, and the nations, he doesn't care about Misplaced Pages, he is biased against minorities because he is a racist nationalist as shown from countless cases of people raising concerns about his prejudiced behavior plastered all over his talk page. He's hiding his covert hate behind his apparent lack of English skills so he often throws in phrases from Misplaced Pages Propaganda 101 like "be civil" or "assume good faith" and so forth. This all resembles a clueless idiot or a conniving troll who drops sackful of marbles on the floor and is amused by the sight of people falling down and breaking their neck or something while cursing him back ("Dear Stubes99, because you are indefinitely blocked from editing, I will not communicate with you."). He is the complete disruptive machine that must be stopped this instant because we have got the reputation of Misplaced Pages to protect and if he is incapable of complying with its rules due to language barriers and whatnot then it's our duty as Misplaced Pages Community members to helpfully show him the way to Czech Misplaced Pages or any place that is in his native language for either party's mental easement. At this point, I think he should be banned from English Misplaced Pages indefinitely. ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 01:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Let's get some hard facts to knock you over with:

(to further illustrate the point I even included snapshots of his quintessential behavior in his native Misplaced Pages habitat)

English Misplaced Pages

  • Inappropriate behavior (Stalking) — Yopie's following, hounding (formerly known as wikistalking) of other editors can be well documented. --Hobartimus (talk) 18:12, 19 November 2009 (UTC) +
  • Inappropriate behavior (Uncivil actions, fiddling with Users' userpage) — I have asked Yopie to explain his use of the template - as should be a requirement at any time - I would like to "hear it" from Yopie's mouth. His failure to reply was needlessly inflammatory. Law Lord should know that any editor may recieve a template warning - "Don't Template the Regulars" is an essay - I prefer "Do Template the Regulars". Removing his template from your talkpage as "harassment" was not likely wise, as it escalates a situation needlessly. '(talk→ BWilkins ←track) 13:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC) + (12-01-2006) (05-01-2008) (01-19-2010), etc
  • Abuse (10-03-2010) (10-02-2010), etc
      • Limited English skills prevents the user of properly functioning on English Misplaced Pages which makes it super difficult to establish any communication with him at all
  • Disruptive editing (mostly Hungary related): Wikiquette affair |Vandalism in the Hungarian-related articles | Hungary-related | Another Slovakian-Hungarian edit war, | Expulsion of Germans etc

Czech Misplaced Pages

(you might want to consider an auto translate machine to use for further verification): 3RR-related disputes , homophobia-laden decisions as a member of Czech arbcom + , open verbal attacks on a Sudeten German user

  • @Bbb23 Uhm, it says "You do not have permission to do that, for the following reason: Your account does not have permission to add or remove user rights."? ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 00:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
  • @Treidoiunu A "couple" of warnings? More like an ocean of criticism of his misuse deserving an honor place in the Misplaced Pages Records (in spirit of the Guinness World Records). Keep in mind Yopie deliberately ignores and removes any post on his talk page criticizing his inappropriate actions making it virtually impossible to deal with him the regular orderly way, and I quote the admin who previously banned him, You have reverted a total of 7 times over the course of several days, with no apparent attempts to discuss the situation with the IP (Either on the article, or on their talk pages). (User:Excirial/2010-09-21), in other words he sends mixed signals to users basically saying 'you talking to me? Into the trash your post goes!' ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 00:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
  • @Sandstein The end does justify the means. A subject is entitled to have an opinion no matter how tact-deficient, communally improper or crude it may appear to others and how emotionally badly others handle it specially when no harm was intended at all but I do reserve the sole right to present my POV opinion on the user here in its original, unaltered format barely shadowed with a false pretense of not being grossed out by Yopie's ruthless actions and wrongdoings, without predicatively riding the ad hominem chariot down the valley. No personal feelings involved & no harm intended, surely not on my behalf and I urge you to take that accusation back because it's untrue and you should just get back to blocking Yopie or something because that guy's got some serious issues, evidently. That's just my two cents here. Also if you must, ban me indefinitely as well (let's call it a personal attack, others will understand) when it's for the common good of Misplaced Pages and if that means not sharing the same space with racist people like Yopie yapping around and deliberately causing havoc among the Eastern European users. ItsAlwaysLupus (talk) 00:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Yopie

Procedural notes

  • According to WP:DR arbitration is last resort to resolve the dispute and accuser must show that he tried to resolve the dispute by other means. ItsAlwaysLupus proved nothing about his previous attempts to resolve dispute peacefully. So-called "other steps" are nearly 3 years old and were initiated by User:Nmate (11 times blocked user ), not by ItsAlwaysLupus. Of course, if Nmate is same person as accuser, this might be interesting case of sockpuppeting.
  • My behaviour in Czech Misplaced Pages is out of scope of EN ArbComm.
  • As far as I know, my only dispute with accuser is over the content of an article Anti-Hungarian sentiment and only communication I have with him is about content and existence of this (two times deleted) article.

Plot

  • I came to contact with accuser 22.6.2013 in the article Anti-Hungarian sentiment, as he re-created previously deleted article and I reverted it with comment AfD decision. Accuser reverted my revert next day, without any comment. Again (I know this is a little bit warring, sorry for it) I reverted him 24.6.2013 with comment rv recreation of deleted article, but he reverted me and that is all.

I ceased from dispute. Two reverts in 3 days.

In my talk page he bullied me with words A reaction like this in the future will be constituted as an act of spamming (shamelessly blanking the page with no logical reason previously stated) and subject to Administrator's noticeboard candidate. Maybe my English is not sufficient for understanding, why is redirecting called "sending unsolicited bulk messages", but I replied Read talk page of this article and AfD's. You recreated previously deleted and redirected article.

After this in my talk page wrote User:Filelakeshoe that the new article is better than previous deleted version and that we can consider WP:DRV. Accuser replied with factual and consensual reply (and standard 3RR warning). As I understand from his User_talk:ItsAlwaysLupus, he agreed with User:EdJohnston proposal about user subpage and for me is this best solution, as we can reach consensus.

From this point of view, for me is really surprise this arbitration as I´m not in dispute with him.

At "evidence"

  • All evidence is 6 - 3 years old, not from my interaction with accuser and was solved. His accusation is full of rude words as racist, homophob, clueless idiot etc., but even arbitration request can be in civil manner. In this stage is unnecessary to reply for every piece, but I reserve right to reply in future.

Some speculations

  • Ad can be seen above, my only known contact with accuser is normal content dispute. But in 26.6.2013 something happens and ItsAlwaysLupus filled this arbitration.

As he himself say, he is living in Czech Republic and as can be seen from his Czech "evidence", he understand Czech.Probably he is user in CS wiki.

In 25.6.2013 was announced that I was re-elected to CS ArbComm with votes 23:2:3. As every arbiter know, arbitration is not popular among users and every decision can leave some users unsatisfied. I was arbiter for four years and some arbitrations were nasty, you know. Accuser accused me with wrongdoing in one case and this can be real reason for this arbitration. Maybe he was losing in some case, maybe he was friend or supporter of someone losing, I don't know. But what can be next? This arbitration will go and someone will say in CS wiki "hey, Yopie is defendant in EN arbitration and I want other vote for CS ArbComm". Nothing nice for me and for community.

This is only my personal speculation, as now I don't have evidence for it, but if necessary, I will ask check-user.

Note: Without accuser mentioned this, I will say here nothing about my membership in the ArbComm, so please treat me as regular. I never used it in any dispute, anywhere and I feel unhappy, that I must say it here. Thank you for understanding.

Conclusion

  • Arbitration is last resort and matters should not be referred to arbitration when a lesser step will be sufficient, accuser don't tried RfC, mediation or Administrators noticeboard.
  • I´m not in dispute with accuser, and he feels it, it is normal content dispute.
  • Evidence is outdated, incorrect and without any connection to accuser.
  • My plea is, that this request will be declined.--Yopie (talk) 01:06, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Rschen7754

The Czech Misplaced Pages is outside the scope of the Arbitration Committee, though evidence from there may possibly be taken into account when determining actions to take here. --Rschen7754 01:40, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Also puzzled, as apparently this editor was, and still is, a member of the Czech Misplaced Pages's ArbCom starting in 2011 and extending into 2014: cz:Wikipedie:Arbitrážní výbor. --Rschen7754 01:45, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Bbb23

Just passing through. I don't know either party. One of my comments is not particularly significant, and the other is not worth really mentioning, but as long as I'm here ...

Yopie was granted rollback rights on June 16, 2010, but they were removed on October 4, 2010, so they didn't get an opportunity to "abuse" them for very long. @NW, you're missing a closing parenthesis.--Bbb23 (talk) 03:57, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Treidoiunu

I am surprised that User:ItsAlwaysLupus‎ brings as evidential diffs for vandalism accusations a couple of warnings given by ordinary uses (including an assertion made by a sockpuppet of a banned user), whose rightness is questionable, instead of offering article editing diffs or at least admin warnings. For instance the "vandalism in the Hungarian-related articles" is supported by a warning issued by an IP sock of the banned user Stubes99: which in fact targets a content dispute, noway a vandalism (apparently the edit referred by Stubes99 is )

Another remark of mine is that the so-called Wikiquette affair is in fact a complaint against User:Jon Jonasson, where Yopie is mentioned only collaterally (he is not the accused party) Treidoiunu (talk) 05:45, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Comment by Mathsci

The account Treidoiunu (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) was created one week ago and had made 22 edits before commenting here. The account does not seem to be a new user: there is an awareness of how to tag user pages as suspected sockpuppets. the user page of an account whose sole edit was reverted by Iadrian yu; an awareness of who the puppeteer might be (Stubes99); the knowledge of how to find this part of project space; a knowledge of warning templates; and a knowledge of WP:RFPP. They made an edit already on one of the articles mentioned here, changing it to a redirect and showing awareness of an AfD from 2011 in the edit summary. Please could the details of this account be checked? Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 06:19, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Now indefinitely CU-blocked as a sockpuppet by Timotheus Canens. Mathsci (talk) 20:35, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Comment by Sandstein

Without having read the request in any detail: The parties may not be aware that there is a special mechanism to mitigate disruptive behavior related to Eastern Europe. It is described at WP:AC/DS and WP:ARBEE#Standard discretionary sanctions. If this matter does concern Eastern Europe, I recommend that somebody issue the appropriate warnings (per WP:AC/DS#Warnings) to the appropriate users. This probably includes ItsAlwaysLupus, whose statements here ("he is a racist nationalist", "This all resembles a clueless idiot or a conniving troll") I consider completely unacceptable no matter what the circumstances may be. Future misconduct can then be sanctioned via WP:AE.  Sandstein  14:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Comment by Volunteer Marek

Bogus request. There might be some sketchy stuff going on here but it's pretty obviously from the filer not the filed-upon. Some of the diffs provided are from... 2005?

This is interesting but mostly for this reason , which is a matter for CUs not ArbCom.

It's also about the most personal-attack laden RFA I've seen in awhile. Sandstein's right - deal with it at AE where the filer'd probably get boomeranged a bit.Volunteer Marek 01:36, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Yopie: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/1/0/1>-Yopie-2013-06-26T03:00:00.000Z">

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

  • Decline. My impression is that the two parties recently got into a content dispute, as to which there has been no apparent effort at prior dispute resolution at all, and that ItsAlwaysLupus proceeded to dig through Yopie's contribution history on two wikis and compiled a list of every wrong or debatable move that Yopie ever made. Many of the diffs are ancient by wiki standards, and some of the allegations are not readily understandable. Contributions to Czech Misplaced Pages (like any other website) are outside our purview absent extraordinary circumstances, plus they are written in Czech, and we certainly cannot act against an arbitrator on another project for the content of their arbitration decisions (although I will admit I hadn't been aware that Cz had an ArbCom). The framing of the request for arbitration goes well beyond the tone of criticism that is appropriate even on an arbitration page, and by itself might be grounds for blocking. Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:51, 27 June 2013 (UTC)"> ">
  • This is an interesting case and I potentially see a place for us to get involved, but my initial reading is that it might be a little too soon for that; that an administrator's noticeboard thread might be able to handle things more...quickly (I almost said "effectively" before checking myself.) But I'm going to await further statements on this one, especially from Yopie. NW (Talk) 03:00, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Jmh649

Initiated by PumpkinSky talk at 01:01, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by PumpkinSky

I have documented sixteen instances (26 if you count a set of page protections separately) since Jmh649 (AKA “Doc J/Doc James”) became an admin in Aug 2010 where he has abused his admin rights, made involved admin actions, and/or engaged in conduct unbecoming an admin. These include the Mar 2011 case of King97tut where he blocks said user, then protects the page in dispute and blocks an alleged sock of the user. In June 2011 he edit warred with Garycompugeek, he reported the editor and both of them got chastised and the page protected. In a Jul 2012 edit war with 32cllou he reports said user and no violation was found. In a Sep 2012 dispute with 7mike5000 Doc J is accused of admin abuse. Deception was pointed out by an arb in the attempted return of Will Beback in Mar 2013. Jmh648 apparently released an email by an arb in Mar 2013. He issued two 2-year blocks of IPs in May 2013 without any escalating blocks—one was a school IP he called vandalism only. He issued eleven protections just in 2013 where he was a main editor—six of them the primary editor. In one of those cases he said new users must use a talk page first. He was tag teaming in April 2013 to get Fgmoon353 blocked. In an edit war in Apr 2013 with Sthubbar he got said user blocked. In an edit war/dispute in Apr 2013 with user WoodSnake, he reported him but no one agreed with Doc J. There was a highly involved, (apparently) undiscussed, unblock of Fladrif in Apr 2013—the unblock was overturned and Doc J claimed blocking admin provided no reasons but said admin had done so. He told three users, Keithbob, Dreadstar, and Littleolive oil, not to post to his talk page, and threatened to block the last two himself if they posted on his talk again. And most recently, a highly involved block of myself in Jun 2013 for using a phrase that another admin had used in which no action was taken. Yet in my case Doc J gave no warning and blocked me. This block was unanimously opposed in two separate threads and overturned in slightly over 4 hours. By my count 22 of these actions are involved and most are in 2013. There seems to be a definite downward trend. PumpkinSky talk 01:03, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

    • @all who have posted so far and want evidence, here it is:

Fladrif and Doc J are involved:

Still TM involvement 3 years later:

    • 23 May 2013 -
    • 23 May 2013 -
    • 23 May 2013 -
    • 23 May 2013 -
    • 23 May 2013 -
    • 23 May 2013 -
  • April 27, 2013
    • 5:27 UTC - Ched blocked Fladrif
    • 8:21 UTC - Doc James unblocked with accusation in block log of "involved" - but that is unsubstantiated and not true
    • Doc J made the claim here: Comment Strange how Ched who is involved would take it upon himself to block Fladrif. I oppose the indef block and have unblocked the user in question until consensus develops. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 08:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
    • 8:25 UTC - Doc James makes FIRST comment on Ched's talk /informing/ him of unblock .. never discussed it with Ched.
  • Littleolive oil threats:
    • Published email by Roger Davies
    • Threatens to block Dreadstar for posting to his talk, epitome of involved:
    • Tells Keithbob and Littleolive oil not to post on his talk page:
    • Deceptive in the WBB return
    • 2 year blocks:
    • Long series of page protections where is is a main contributor, a few from just 2013):
    • Edit war with Sthubbar over Osteoarthritis
  • 07-14 Jun 2011 - Doc J edit wars with Garycompugeek, reports him, review chastizes both users and protects page

Question for the arbs

If this case is not at least accepted, I'd like to know what is so different from the present RFAR and these cases, both recent and resulted in desyssops:
  1. Jul 2012 Carnildo desyssop for multiple actions including an unblock sounds similar especially vis a vis Fladrif
  2. Sep 2012 desyssop of EncycloPetey, went from ANI to RFAR, no RFCU, blocks and protections by EPetey -- sounds eerily similar
PumpkinSky talk 21:25, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
@Brad, thanks for the quick response Brad. I'll think over any further comment. PumpkinSky talk 21:35, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
@Brad, I only see a commitment to use RFPP, nothing about not making unwarranted and/or involved blocks, nothing about not making new users and students use talk pages vice editing, nothing about staying away from users he has a history with (in some cases 4 years, see olive's stmt), nothing about not edit warring, nothing about not threatening to block people he told to stay off his talk page, and while he did admit he goofed in the Fladrif unblock, he didn't say he would avoid doing so again. PumpkinSky talk 23:05, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
@Silky, an RFC would NOT be useful as it'd be the same result as here, his friends will defend him and everyone else sees issues to varying degrees. This is why an Arb case is needed. PumpkinSky talk 10:01, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
@Bwilkins. If anything was retaliatory it was Doc's block of me. The idea that half the diffs cited are not problematic is ludicrous. PumpkinSky talk 20:14, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
@Malke and Orlady, since this keeps coming up, I'll be more to the point about why an RFCU would not do any good here....the evidence shows a long pattern of problematic behavior and concerns have been brought up before and done no good whatsoever. Nor would have an RFC before this. No slight to Doc J intended here, but I am fairly certain that the only reason this RFAR has gotten his attention is fear of losing his bit. Hence, a RFC would have been a complete waste of everyone's time. I'm not exactly a newbie to DR you know. PumpkinSky talk 22:24, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
@Malke, let's do the math. Unless all remaining active arbs vote accept, this case won't get accepted. If that is what happens, Dennis' idea has lots of merit as a viable option. PumpkinSky talk 23:40, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

@ALL. This post by Malke makes sense given the course things have taken, but it needs one more thing--we need to know who this mentor is. It should not be "OK, I've got a behind the scenes mentor and the community can't know who it is. I saw the post on Doc's page saying he had one, but he does not name s/he. PumpkinSky talk 01:13, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

@Sandy, you have absolutely no room to talk about claiming a long an escalating pattern of agression against others. As for the RFAR, Doc had his chances to clean up his act and ignored them. An RFC would have wasted everyone's time. He is only just now paying attention because his bit is on the line.PumpkinSky talk 20:21, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
@Looie, that is absolutely no excuse for Doc's actions whatsoever. PumpkinSky talk 20:21, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Jmh649 (Doc James)

Any diffs to support these accusations to make them easier to respond to? Also isn't this a little early? No RfC/U has taken place, no dispute resolution.

Many comments made by PS are inappropriate and these issues go back a long time. They include among others:

  1. June 16th 2013 "You want professionals? Go hire some and pay them. I don't volunteer my time to put up with pompous asses like you."
  2. June 5th 2013 "Sandy, how damned sanctimonious of you. The lessons you should have learned here have been totally lost on you. Have you checked your precious MEDRS stuff for compliance lately?"
  3. June 5th 2013 "Karma will take care of the rest" is a strange comment as is a comment to User:Nikkimaria from May 7th 2013 ""Instant Karma's gonna get you", and the best part is I won't have to do a single thing. You can't escape karma"
  4. June 2nd 2013 "I can by to see what you were up to and saw you haven't edited in three months. Good riddance because the way you and Townlake behaved on my talk page in Oct 2012 was appalling. You should be ashamed on both a personal and admin level. But I'm sure you're not. But that is okay because karma will get you and I won't have to do a thing." and
  5. Other concerning comments include: with issues occurring back in July 2011 as well
  6. More stangeness, here he claims on July 9th of 2011 he does not know how to upload an image to commons yet he is an admin on commons as of that date ?

Pumpkin was warned here I was not previously involved with Pumpkinsky and we have as far as I am aware never edited the same content area.

Were is the evidence that I was in an edit war with User:WoodSnake? This user has not made a single content edit, ever. User:Fgmoon353 removed this review article in edits like this and this . I posted a request for further input regarding this question on the talk page here With respect to the 2 year IP blocks PS must be referring to this one which was blocked for 2 month Jan 2013 and two weeks in June 2012. This was the users previous edits and . The other IP had been blocked 9 times previously and the previous block had been for nearly two years. Vandalism included and among others. So I do not understand the statement that no shorter blocks had been given before these 2 year blocks as this is not what the block log shows.

With respect to User:Dreadstar here is the post were I asked that he not post on my talk page . I did not state that I would block him myself, just that someone may. With respect to Olive, I crossed out my error here and would have never blocked the user in question as I was involved. Yes I blocked User:King97tut for legal threats made here . I have previously had a user on Misplaced Pages make similar legal threats against me and than proceed to carry them out per This was more than two years ago and I agree I should have probably gone through ANI. I am unsure how reporting User:32cllou to 3RR is against the "rules" as IMO it was closer to 5 or 6 reverts. The user was never blocked and has recently made some useful edits

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 05:29, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

@PS: I was never involved with your issues with WBB. If being involved with a user who has previous been involved with another user makes you involved than Ched would have been involved with Fladrif. However he was deemed not to be. By the way which arbcom cases are you referring to?
@PS: You state that I claimed Ched was "deceptive" and give this diff . No were do I state or indicate that I consider Ched deceptive. To clarify matters I do not consider him deceptive. He did however hand out an indef block with no diffs of issues. I agree it was a mistake for me to unblock him. Thus reblocked him as per the diffs provided and apologized to him here Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 13:37, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
PS still makes claims of "no escalating blocks"? Am I confused regarding the definition? I am under the assumption that previous blocks of short duration followed by longer ones is the definition of escalating blocks? PS states that I was in an edit war with WoodSnake yet I have never reverted an edit that this user has made. How is this an edit war?15:13, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
The block of 7Mike5000 was supported by community consensus here
I did not "released an email". I simple quoted a single sentence from the arbcom in question.
@Olive: Regarding the two concerns you raise I have apologized to Ched previously about my inappropriate un-block and did reblock Fladrif. I corrected my type-o on your talk page.
@Newyorkrad: Yes that was my understanding. One can protect pages on which there is significant long term IP vandalism. The issue is protection of pages during content disputes which is forbidden. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:09, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
@Salvio: Yes if going to WP:RFPP for any page I have ever edited would make things less controversial would be happy to going forwards. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 17:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
I am happy to receive advice from fellow admins. As PS and I would now be involved I will not be using further admin tools in my interactions with him. Also agree to not use admin tools with respect to TM. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:53, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I affirm that I will not make "involved blocks". I will also not unblock User:Fladrif again. With respect to "nothing about staying away from users he has a history" Not sure what you mean by this? If it is Olive you notice I request that Oilve not post on my talk page . She continued despite my request and thus I posted a stronger warner which I later corrected. If you are stating that I frequently post on Olive's talk page my last post prior to this was in 2011. If you are referring to something else let me know. If you are referring to PS this is my only interaction on your talk page
  • With respect to an entire class editing an article in a harmful manner I would invite all to take a look at the issues in question . Take a look at the changes made by these 3 new users and an IP. They more or less duplicated the article content with poor quality references. I protected the article for 2 weeks. Enough time for the school term to end. I posted concerns here when it happened and my protection of the article was endorsed at that point in time . Yes we may need more community discussion on what is an appropriate reaction to this sort of issue. I will start one at Misplaced Pages:Education noticeboard Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 17:34, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
@Silk I consider repeatedly removing well referenced text or images without consensus to be vandalism. Agree that the protection should not have been indef and removed the protection from Anencephaly Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 17:16, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
@Dennis: Yes thanks for the correction. I am definately overstretching "significant parts of a page's content without any reason" and that this would be better described as a content dispute. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 18:34, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
@I am actually very open to feedback as I hope is obvious from the above. I am not sure what supports PS statement that "concerns have been brought up before and done no good whatsoever". I personally find RfC useful generally. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 00:04, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
I have already accepted ongoing guidance from a fellow admin. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 00:23, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Mathsci

There seems to be no reason to open an arbcom case on Jmh649. PumpkinSky was blocked for 48 hours by Jmh649 for incivility (he called another editor a "pompous ass") on 16 June. He was unblocked on 17 June after a posting by Dennis Brown at WP:ANI. 5 days later he produced this request. Arbitration is a last resort and is usually preceded by other forms of dispute resolution: Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jmh649 is still a redlink. PumpkinSky has assembled a list of complaints, including claims of tag teaming, which, without supporting diffs or careful justification, arbitrators are expected to accept on trust. Mathsci (talk) 06:30, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

  • Any attempt to re-examine issues connected with TM would seem to be counter-productive. During the last Timid Guy case, Jmh649, as a trained medical practitioner, offered his take on some of the medical claims of TM. Some of those commenting here have had significant involvement with TM articles. In my experience they have been completely neutral when commenting on issues unrelated to TM. Closer to TM, however, it's not clear whether that objective neutrality can be maintained.
  • PumpkinSky has meanwhile insisted that an RfC/U would not be helpful. But here he has produced a list of disparate minor complaints: such a miscellany is better dealt with in an RfC/U if it needs to be dealt with at all. Mathsci (talk) 22:06, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Anthonyhcole

I'm not familiar with most of the cases PumpkinSky refers to above, but I'm very familiar with the 7mike5000 case. I consider Mike a friend, but a troubled and very troublesome person at times. James's treatment of Mike was measured and patient in the face of very challenging behaviour on Mike's part. If PumpkinSky's characterisation of James's behaviour in that case is any measure, I would recommend very careful scrutiny of his other allegations. (I'm on the board of m:Wiki Project Med with James, and I'm unaware of having had any dealings with PumpkinSky). --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:27, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by IRWolfie-

No diffs are offered, merely a string of allegations and vagueness. This arbitration request appears to be a tit-for-tat response by Pumpkin due to his being blocked. PumpkinSky has a high degree of emotional involvement in the Will Beback case he mentions, could this arbitration filing be because James supported the unblock of Will? IRWolfie- (talk) 08:49, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Black Kite

"He issued two 2-year blocks of IPs in May 2013 without any escalating blocks—one was a school IP he called vandalism only". Well, here's the block log for that IP - twelve previous blocks, including three of a year. The other IP had two previous blocks, the last of two months, but as usual with these accounts, practically no useful edits, so I don't think such a block was unusual. If this amount of accuracy is repeated in the rest of PumpkinSky's allegations, this report is clearly a tit-for-tat response to his blocking and as such, is disruptive in itself. And, as previous mentioned, Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jmh649 is still a redlink. Black Kite (talk) 10:26, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

  • We now have a list of diffs, which add up to a enormous pile of ... not a lot. If PS genuinely thinks there is an issue here, it needs to go to RFCU. It certainly isn't an ArbCom issue. Black Kite (talk) 13:07, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Drmies

That I didn't get blocked for calling someone a "pompous ass" is not evidence of much, certainly not of double standards. Whether someone gets blocked for something is probably much more dependent on how many people are watching, and who those people are. Having said that, I thought Doc James's block was over the top, but I cannot yet support sending this to arbitration since I also am not convinced of a pattern of administrative misconduct by Doc James. Drmies (talk) 13:32, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

  • Update, and see notes below. I cannot say that I see enough evidence of abusive adminship here. Whether this is a case that ArbCom should take, I will leave that to others: I don't think all avenues are exhausted. What I have seen here is a bad block and a bad unblock, and a series of questionable protections. (I see nothing in the edit warring etc that causes me concern about Doc as an admin.) If this were an RfC/U I would have proposed that Doc no longer protect anything he has edited himself, for instance, but this isn't an RfC/U and therefore this is not the place for advice or recommendations.

    In general, there certainly are misjudgments here, yes, but I cannot say that Doc is an abusive admin--though, again, I have problems with the protections, which suggest a lack of awareness of INVOLVED, and the block and unblock, which evidence lack of judgment (whether occasional or habitual is not easy to say). Drmies (talk) 15:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Notes on some of the diffs presented
  • "Tells Keithbob and Littleolive oil not to post on his talk page"--Doc James has the right to ask editors not to post. Removing a comment in itself is not against any policy, nor is it evidence of admin abuse (and no admin tool is involved).
  • "Deceptive in the WBB return"--one comments by one editor does not prove deception. "Involvement" and bad admin decisions require more than one such diff.
  • "Published email by Roger Davies"--PumpkinSky may well have a point, but it seems to me that WP:EMAILPOST ("There is no community consensus regarding the posting of private off-wiki correspondence") and WP:EMAILABUSE ("You should not post the email itself on the wiki without permission") are at odds.
  • "Littleolive oil threats"--Doc's "I will block you" (later corrected) is of course inappropriate.
  • The Fladrif affair--I thought Doc James's unblock was a very poor decision. The matter seemed to have been resolved with an apology; that Doc agreed with Fladrif on some TM proposals does not make them involved--not to the extent that it is necessarily an involved unblock. However, the unblock in itself, I repeat, was really poor.
  • 7Mike5000--there was a block, and the blockee protested, alleging abuse. Chris Cunningham drops by to say there was nothing controversial about it.
  • "Deceptive in the WBB return"--one comment by one person.
  • "2 year blocks"--perhaps a bit long for this one, but not abusive, and this is incorrectly marked as a VOA (but 2 years is not crazy).
  • "Edit war with Sthubbar over Osteoarthritis", "Edit war with 32cllou", "Edit war with Garycompugeek"--no use of the tools by Doc James.
  • Protection of articles Doc James has edited himself: that seems clear.

    Drmies (talk)

Statement by Ched

Awaiting further input from other committee members. I will of course respond to any questions from either the committee or the community. Further, if the remainder of the committee feels it is acceptable to protect due to new editors or School project and students need to discuss changes on talk, (even if they are a content editor ), then I think it would be preferable for the committee to make such a statement either by motion or at WP:AC/N. By extension of the comments made by committee members at this time, I would also greatly appreciate some sort of statement that it is not in violation of either WP:INVOLVED or WP:PROTECT for an administrator to indefinitely protect an article of which which we are content contributors, and that we are free to bypass WP:RFPP. I would also respectfully suggest that the committee refrain from the use of its "recidivism" clauses in future findings.

Now - I by no means mean this to be a condemnation of Doc James, in fact I find him to be an agreeable person and a highly valuable asset to the community. It is to the project's benefit to have experienced experts in all fields contributing to Misplaced Pages, and I greatly appreciate all the devoted work that Doc James has contributed to our medical articles (aka WP:MEDRS. Yet I am remembered of our projects scope in the sense that we are not a medical consulting project. I would have further comments to make in regards to past editors who have been desysoped as a precedent; but given the current tone in the arb comment section below at this time, I'm not inclined to invest time and energy in futile efforts. Best to all. — Ched :  ?  17:44, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

  • @Worm (and others) - I'm likely alienating some/many folks with this post; however, while I have no desire to "mentor" anyone, I am willing to work jointly with |Doc James on a RfC. Perhaps an RfC on WP:INVOLVED, WP:PROTECT, and WP:BLOCK would be more acceptable than a RfC/U to Doc James; as the later does carry a certain stigma to it. I see 4 possible things at hand:
  1. Abuse of tools
  2. Misuse of tools
  3. Mistaken use of tools or poor judgement
  4. Nothing to see here - move along.
My take on the current consensus is that most folks appear to fall into the #2 or #3 category. I make this offer because after talking with Doc James, to be honest? I get the impression he's a good person who honestly tries to do the right thing. With respect to TM issues, or "scientific and medical" items in general - I may disagree on many levels, but they are not areas I edit in. I also strongly feel that "NPOV" is a misnomer that we mistakenly strive for; when in reality we should be striving to provide ALL Points of View. I'm sorry - but we are human, and there's always going to be a POV. My question to the committee and Worm is this: Would a RfC carry the same weight with the committee in the future (if it was needed) as a RfC/U? — Ched :  ?  15:51, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
  • @NYB. I must respectfully disagree. Reason: There are questions (at least in my own mind) as to what is acceptable as a general rule of thumb. I've mentioned some thoughts above, but for example. I make a few minor edits (typo, spelling, etc.) to an article - or even if I am a major contributor; now I notice outright vandalism .. then my current understanding of the spirit of our policies is that while a short protection (or even block) may be acceptable .. (IDK - 24 hours?) .. but that anything much beyond that should be put before either WP:RFPP or the community. Short of some definitive statement by the committee I'd still be in question as to what is or is not acceptable as a general rule. — Ched :  ?  16:21, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
  • @ Bwilkins I disagree (again respectfully). While we may be in a Chicken or the egg scenario, I think it could just as easily be seen that block was the "retaliatory" part of this situation. However, perhaps it's best that we don't attempt to ascribe motive to ANY editor - no? — Ched :  ?  19:57, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
  • @ ALL OK, for those of you who whom(?) I haven't managed to piss off yet - here goes. (sorry - IDGAF mode). First yes, I DO think that Doc James has cocked up big time in many areas. To say I was "nonplussed" about the Fladrif affair is actually a far cry from reality. I was damned pissed off. Still - he was able to read the writing on the (AN/I) wall, and made it right. I was equally infuriated by the PS block, but the whole affair was over before I ever got to it. Now I've never denied being a PS supporter and "wiki-friend". IMO - he's gotten shafted right and left ever since 8 sentences ended up at TFA too close to "paraphrase", and a whole bunch of the "holier than thou we are the supreme editors of da wiki" got caught with their pants down and egg on their face because nobody caught it. So pardon me if I do understand the bitterness that PS may hold. But quite bluntly, the admin. that blocks while calling the blockee a "dingus" and "12 year old" is far more deserving of a "deadmin". I'm not saying it excuses some of the things he's (PS) posted; I'd have rather he vented to me in email, I'm just saying I understand. But back to the matter at hand. I really really wish this committee would grow a pair, ummm I mean show some fortitude. Many years ago it was not unheard of for the committee to temporarily remove the bits so an admin. could regain an understanding of what is and is not acceptable - but I guess that was back when there weren't 128 members who displayed such diverse opinions. We are where we are now. Ummmm ... people are saying that Doc James must disclose some "mentor". Really? So where is the mandate that he has to have one? Arbcom certainly hasn't demanded it. Did I miss a AN thread that the community consensus demanded it? Cart before the horse anyone? (sorry Dennis - it's not often I'll say this .. but you're some people are as wrong on this point as anyone else who claims this as a must). Now if Doc James has said he's got someone providing some guidance ... FREAKIN GREAT!! He knows he needs it. It's very hard to look in the mirror and say - "I need help". Quite frankly Doc has talked to ME and asked for advice, knowing full well that I'm a huge PS supporter. (NO - I'm not the "sooper sekrit" mentor). IMO Doc James has had his head buried so deep in his own little corner of "medical wiki" that he's lost touch of what is and is not acceptable. Is he afraid of losing his bit? Hell .. I would be. The question now becomes: "can we fix him. Make him bigger, stronger, faster? Time will tell. Now if I'm not blocked as disruptive when I wake up, perhaps I'll post further .. or perhaps I'll never post again after this. IDK. Like I said at the beginning .. IDGAF. — Ched :  ?  07:10, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Comment by MONGO

The block on PumkinSky was extremely excessive (48 hours), unnecessary, created more drama and bad feelings, and in the worst case, as PumpkinSky seems to be indicating, may have been for revenge. Doc James needs to also be extremely cautious about threatening to block those that are posting to his talkpage as that sort of thing is best handled by a third party administrator. I don't know that there is enough here for a case, but we are bordering on an admonishment being needed on Doc James' administrative actions and/or threats of actions. We don't want administrators to misuse either their tools or their positions.--MONGO 14:15, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

Admins should be well-apprised by now that using admin powers on any page where they have made substantive edits, or made substantive edits on related pages is likely to be viewed as improper, and Doc J should be on notice. Also that he is now reasonably considered an "involved admin" with regard to PS. Does this cover the entire problem? Collect (talk) 14:33, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Keithbob

I have long had concerns about Jmh649's judgement and I expressed these concerns at his RfA. He has a long history of edit warring and has been sanctioned for this in the past (before his RfA). Since then, it appears he continues to edit war on medical related topics under the veil of Adminship as part of his war against new users who disagree with him on content issues. To me this appears to be a long standing mis-behavior and mis-use of tools against editors whom he is in disputes with. The Fladrif and Pumpkin Sky incidents are both recent and egregious and I would encourage ArbCom to consider taking this case.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:12, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by olive

Our Admin policy states, "Administrators are expected to lead by example..."

Consistency: Either our admin are expected to lead by example or they aren't. I am aware of a situation where an arb/admin blocked an admin for a week for a single statement stating another editor was lying. The reason given was that admins are held to a higher standard than other editors. Are admins held to higher standards than other editors? The standard has to be in place for all editors with out discriminating.

Dismissing evidence: Further, the diffs posted by PSky deserve attention. There are enough diffs that show patterns of both less than exemplary admin behaviour and poor judgement in the use of admin tools to warrant investigation. As an point: Admins should not use their tools to threaten editors they are and have been highly involved with as James did here. . Further, James did not redact his statement until he was threatened with a desysop proceedings. Is that poor judgement or a blatant misuse of admin power to threaten and harass.

Productive member of the community: Doc James is a highly productive and influential admin both on and off Misplaced Pages. He is an emergency room Doc, and such MD's must act quickly and unilaterally in many cases. He also edits through the night possibly suffering from fatigue while he edits as I've seen him admit (per his user page and his own comments) Many of Doc's contentious actions are unilateral, for example the use of his tools to threaten, and overturning blocks with out consulting the blocking admin., clear cases where he should have asked for other admin assistance. If a certain kind of behaviour is acceptable in RL, even necessary, but not here, and I know I'm making connections here that may not exist, just trying to be fair, well the community must say so from positions that an editor will be forced to listen to, which not only protects the encyclopedia but supports and educates James as an effective admin. There's a lot at stake here too much to ignore, in my opinion.

Disclaimer: I have had interactions with James on and off for about three-four years.(olive (talk) 20:33, 22 June 2013 (UTC))

  • I support mentoring if James feels it can be useful to him. I also support transparent mentoring. A mentor should be someone who can publicly vouch for the "mentoree" and their progress if needed. As well, community members have a right to suggest or request fixes for what they believe will benefit both the community members and the community itself. Seems to me that's intrinsic in a collaborative project. Our policies were also created by collaborative input and formalized by community agreement. This is just another way to support optimal community functioning and to aid our editors- a suggestion with agreement to formalize an action. If the mentor is secret, we are no longer dealing with the community in the same way, and progress and outcomes are nebulous which may or may not serve James or the community. (olive (talk) 16:03, 25 June 2013 (UTC))
  • @arbs: Since arb com is clearly not going to accept this case but also as clearly has concerns, could they summarize their concerns at some point for clarity which might save James, the mentor and the community a lot of bother later on. A summary now might also save an RfC which are often quagmires with poorly defined outcomes. I'm not sure about precedents for this request, though.(olive (talk) 16:49, 25 June 2013 (UTC))

Statement by Gerda Arendt

I had no interactions that I remember with Doc James. I don't have time to investigate a long history but observed two recent actions that I found irritating:

  • the unblock of Fladrif without contacting the blocking admin before doing so
  • the block of PumpkinSky for a strong phrase, no more

I see "qualities" that I find undesirable in an admin, especially if they are only the tip of an iceberg, as it seems, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:06, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

  • (adding:) the warning of blocking if an unwelcome editor would appear again on the user's talk page
Doc James modified his "I will block you", to "someone will block you", but even so: what attitude does such a warning show? Is appearing on a talk page blockable at all? If so, who would perform such a block? - I respect when I am not welcome (without a threat), and I invite everyone to my talk, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:46, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Count Iblis

PumpkinSky, if this case had been presented when you were an Arbitrator here, would you have proposed to desysop Doc James? Count Iblis (talk) 00:45, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

There is also the possibility that RFPP is not good enough for the particular pages that DoC James is active on. So, if we ask Doc James to work with RFPP, it may transpire that there is a problem and one then should discuss if we need some additional policies to deal with problems. I'm not saying that this will happen, just that we need to have an open mind about this possibility. It wasn't that long ago that we didn't have a BLP policy, also the policies for sourcing scientific articles have been tightened a lot in the last several years (we don't get these discussions at the RS noticeboard about that e.g. the BBC should be a reliable source on climate change anymore, when we did have those discussions, many editors would ignore the RS noticeboard leading to editing disputes). Count Iblis (talk) 12:10, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Diannaa

The problem is, he is protecting articles on his own that he should be listing at RFPP. He is jumping directly to indefinite semi when the usual way is to escalate, starting with a short protection. "Anyone can edit" is one of the pillars. Time and again the community has requested we require editors to create accounts, but the present rules do not call for it. Not only does this fly in the face of one of the pillars, he is setting himself up as a "supereditor" on the suite of medical articles. Don't get me wrong, I think we should semi-protect the entire encyclopedia. The medical articles are super important and it's important that we get it right. But as an admin I am bound to follow the rules as they currently exist. And so should he. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diannaa (talk • contribs) 15:57, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

The same goes for issuing blocks: when patrolling articles he has heavily edited, he should be reporting at AIV in all but the most egregious instances. In many cases other admins will agree that blocks or protection are warranted, but will often take a more minimalist view, like Kumioko says, of doing the minimum amount of admin action that will protect the encyclopedia from harm rather than immediately jumping to indef blocks and indef semi protection. -- Diannaa (talk) 18:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by KumiokoCleanStart

I am completely uninvolved in this and although I saw a couple of the actions happen on my watchlist I didn't put anything together until this case appeared. I have looked through a lot of the actions presented as well as a review of actions by Doc James and it seems as though there is some evidence to support inappropriate action. One incident doesn't warrant a desysopping, but there are a lot of diffs and a lot of evidence supporting the potential that this admin acted inappropriately on several (but not all listed) occasions. The admins seems to act rashly and uses extreme measures frequently such as long blocks when short ones will do. Whether this has risen to the level of Arbcom action depends on whether the Admin could be desysopped outside this venue if they are deemed to be acting inappropriately. If the answer to that question is yes, then certainly another venue such as ANI or mediation could be appropriate. If however this is the only venue that supports a potential desysopping then this case should be handled here.

  • @Drmies or Arbcom, I attempted to remove it twice and was reverted twice but someone should really remove that pompous ass comment from within the header of Drmies post. It is wholly inappropriate.
  • @Silstork, then he can be asked to resign, what if he says no? There is no requirement for him to do so. I admit I am not completely convinced that its required but there does seem to be some strong argument for it. Kumioko (talk) 10:18, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
  • @Arbcom, I agree with Pumpkinsky that being dismissve of half these diffs is problematic. Individually most of these diffs aren't a huge issue but when you pile them all together they show a pattern of concern. Maybe a full blown arbitration hearing isn't needed and maybe he'll settle down after this but being dismissive of the evidence isn't beneficial. Kumioko (talk) 20:22, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Dennis Brown

Doc's block was likely fueled by PumpkinSky's June 2nd edits, which were not blockworthy by themselves but they were incivil and in extremely poor taste. PS had already been approached (warned?) by another editor two weeks before this block, so it was old news. I think Doc let his emotions get the best of him, a overreaction but one fueled by a desire to protect the two editors who received the blunt end of PS's stick. Actions like PumpkinSky's block, this confusion and the page protection issues convince me that Doc isn't fully in tune with community expectations for administrators. I don't think Doc is an evil guy or abusing the tools intentionally, but I do think he has made a number of mistakes with a common theme.

Education should be considered as a possible first solution. An RFC/U is one option, although at the risk of a lot of drama and time. Another option is if he considered a form of mentoring on tools, if he is willing defer to the mentor. We shouldn't forget that the vast majority of Doc's work here is exceedingly helpful and beneficial. It is in everyone's best interest if we find a way to help Doc to become a better admin, if he is willing. It is my opinion that mentoring offers the possibility of addressing the valid concerns in the least amount of time while creating the least amount of disruption to all concerned. I would prefer Doc James volunteer for mentoring rather than having it imposed in some other venue. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 22:36, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

@Doc James: Repeatedly removing sourcing information and images is not vandalism according to the community. It might be tendentious editing, or simple NPOV editing, but that has a different motivation than vandalism and a different solution. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 18:10, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

@Malke 2010 Doc has indicated he has found a mentor, seemingly making the question moot. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 00:54, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

@All: I would not consider "secret mentoring" sufficient. As I've said elsewhere, "secret mentoring" is indistinguishable from "nothing" to the public eye. I'm probably the wrong person for the job, but the community has a right to know regardless of who it is, and to witness some of the fruits of their trust. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | © | WER 02:09, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Dirk Beetstra

This first should go through an RfC/U, however useless that may seem. If it turns out to be useless and problems persist, then further steps are logic.

@PumpkinSky: EncycloPetey was 'railroaded' by the community ánd also by the Arbitration Committee - it is a very bad example of how the Arbitration Committee should not be used, and I hope that that never happens again. --Dirk Beetstra 12:38, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


Statement by Bwilkins

This really appears to be retaliatory overall. PS knows the processes well - they know that RFC/U always comes before ArbCom. Indeed, if I wasn't such a strong AGF'er, I'd swear that it was raised here first to generate as much a) drama, and b) pageviews first. At least half of the "actions" that are being complained about are not problematic in the least, and appear to be more of the shotgun approach - making it look like there are dozens of problems when there's maybe 1 or 2 minor ones. Gigantic WP:TROUT is recommended for PS - I don't think they hurt any more or less when swung by ArbCom as a group (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:32, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Malke 2010

Admins are elected by the community. The successful RfA's all show the same thing: the community reposes trust in that individual. We trust them to know the rules and to follow them and to remind us about them. The edit warring and page protections should concern ArbCom. And the suggestion of revenge that Mongo pointed out is concerning also.

My experience with Doc James came on the Smallpox article. The talk page shows several threads where editors have raised concerns about the image being used at the start of the article. Basically, editors and readers have complained that it is disturbing. This is entirely understandable for lay readers and editors.

I moved the picture down into the article and freed it up from the info box. I'm sure readers don't even notice the info box information with that image in it. But Doc James reverted . And immediately after that, he went over to this article Legionnaires' disease, which I was expanding at the time, and moved a section from the beginning of the article to the end: . It seemed to be a tit-for-tat since he'd never edited the article before:.

When I engaged on the talk page, which I did as soon as I moved the image, he claimed that moving the image was a 'suppression of the image' and he could not support that. I tried to explain I was responding to other editors' concerns which are persistent over time, but I gave up, just like the others. . He doesn't seem to want to WP:HEAR.

He also protected Smallpox. There is evidence of persistent vandalism so I agree with that, but of course he should have gone to RFPP and had another admin handle it.

Desysopping seems an extreme measure. Admins should be allowed to make mistakes, we can't hold them to an impossible standard. This seems more like a need for behaviour modification. Dennis Brown suggested a mentor which might sort the whole thing for good. Perhaps an uninvolved admin or an ArbCom admin could shadow his edits and interactions with others for a time? Malke 2010 (talk) 17:39, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

@PumpkinSky, I don't see why you couldn't proceed with an RfC/U. And I don't think the comments here are by friends trying to be protective. You're right admins support each other, but that's because they're all often put-upon with all sorts of complaints. They're being sympathetic but they are acknowledging problems. I think Silk Tork has made some excellent suggestions. @Doc James, highly recommend you agree to mentoring per Dennis Brown's suggestion. Malke 2010 (talk) 21:23, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

@PumpkinSky: Yes, I see your point. What do you think about Doc J agreeing to a mentor for a period of time per Dennis Brown's suggestion? Malke 2010 (talk) 23:00, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

@PumpkinSky: I don't think the math will be there to take a case, but I think the Arbs might be willing to suggest a mentor, which is why I asked if you'd accept that as a solution. This is something Doc J would need to agree to. Dennis Brown seems like he'd be a good mentor but Doc J would have to agree, etc. I'm not up on my Robert's Rules, or the Wiki ArbCom rules, but perhaps a motion could be made that a mentor is appointed and a time frame given? Malke 2010 (talk) 23:57, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

@Dennis Brown: would you be willing to mentor Doc J, if he agreed? Malke 2010 (talk) 23:58, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

@Newyorkbrad, AGK, Salvio, NW, SilkTork and Worm: You've all seen some problems here, would it be possible for ArbCom to hold off voting on taking the case pending the outcome of mentoring? Malke 2010 (talk) 00:11, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

@Doc James, there are enough concerns here, including the concerns noted by the Arbs, that a more formal arrangement is needed. I'd like to see the Arbs hold off voting on whether to take this case pending the outcome of mentoring. Considering the behaviours and your role as an admin, it needs to be an admin mentor who is not a buddy. And not on an informal basis, but rather a clear set of goals and consequences for failure to achieve a successful outcome. The consequences would be the Arbs taking the case. Malke 2010 (talk) 00:38, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

@Dennis Brown, yes, I saw on his talk page that he has found a mentor which is a good thing. It would be best if the mentor were identified and commented here. Also, it might be best if there is a time-frame of perhaps 3 months. Pending the outcome, which will hopefully be positive, the Arbs could then simply close this request. If it's not a good outcome, the Arbs could take the case. There must be an incentive or behaviours are not likely to improve. You even said so yourself, (on Doc's talk page) your adminship was conditioned on mentoring. If you'd not improved, you would have not kept the mop. The same should apply here. Malke 2010 (talk) 01:24, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

@Sandygeorgia: It's easy to ascribe it to MEDMOS, but timing is everything. I had been working on that article at the time I moved the image in the Smallpox article. The thing speaks for itself, especially given his other behaviours like protecting pages in content disputes, inappropriate blocks, and his prior behaviours that suggest retaliation. Malke 2010 (talk) 15:37, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

@Worm: I appreciate your comment and 'dismissing without prejudice.' Hopefully the problems will be resolved.

@NW: Thank you, I wasn't sure how things worked here. Malke 2010 (talk) 15:43, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

*@SandyGeorgia, It wasn't a MEDMOS edit. That's a tree to hide behind. It was a tit for tat. I moved something in "his" article so he did the same in an article I was then working on. There was no need to make that move and it didn't improve the article. It was a tit for tat which is unbecoming for any editor, but especially so for an admin. His subsequent behaviours with PumpkinSky bring that into clear relief. Malke 2010 (talk) 18:38, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Orlady

I have concerns about the evidence of multiple instances of poor judgment in the use of admin tools and of heavy-handedly taking unilateral sysop action, but I think an Arbcom case would be premature at this point. Ideally, Doc James will read the criticisms here and alter his future behavior to avoid similar criticisms in the future. If that doesn't happen, then an Arbcom case might be warranted. After the discussion here plus earlier noticeboard discussions, I don't think an RFC would do much good, since it would only repeat the kinds of things that have been said here. --Orlady (talk) 20:59, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Scray

The space in which Doc James edits primarily -- medicine-related content -- is high-profile, high-stakes, rapidly-changing, and often contended by editors with a high prevalence of POV/COI/FRINGE issues. It's challenging to maintain high standards for content in the face of the massive volume of biomedical literature. I say this because this context may have reinforced some of the problematic behavior highlighted above. This is not exculpatory, just explanatory, and I perceive a genuine epiphany in his response here (which, I believe, would have occurred at RFC/U). At this point, mentoring has a high likelihood of success, and I see no reason to expect it to fail. I hope Doc James will be receptive to a wake-up call if old habits re-emerge. -- Scray (talk) 00:21, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Advice on best practices by NE Ent

Admin is one role. Editor is another. It's usually best not to mix those up, and usually unnecessary -- an admin can use all the avenues available to other editors ... aiv, rfpp, csd, 3rr ... to receive assistance where necessary, and by the depth of their experience and postion of community trust they'll get their concerns addressed seriously by other members of the admin community. NE Ent 01:33, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by SandyGeorgia

My apologies for coming late: I've been quite busy. Some random feedback, in no particular order:

  • @ Malke 2010:

    And immediately after that, he went over to this article Legionnaires' disease, which I was expanding at the time, and moved a section from the beginning of the article to the end: . It seemed to be a tit-for-tat since he'd never edited the article before:.

    Malke, please have a look at WP:MEDMOS; you might then be inclined to thank DocJames for improving that article. A review of MEDMOS might also help you become a better medical editor. Your "complaint" about Doc is similar to others on the page: there's nothing there. He improved the article (I haven't checked, but I hope you didn't revert that change). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Malke, thanks for the followup. I still am not seeing how improving an article can be considered retaliation? Whenever I encounter a new medical editor, I check some of their work and attempt to point them towards our medical guidelines ... I can see no negative impact from the improvement DocJames made, and when I went to your talk page to notify you of my feedback here, I noted the most considerate approach DocJames has taken towards issues between the two of you. (I imagine, like me, he is always glad to find a new medical editor to help share the load !) Best regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Malke, usually when an editor helps improve an article I'm working on with benign uncontroversial edits, and particularly when it is that editor's area of expertise, I don't make bad faith assumptions about their motives. There was nothing even remotely controversial about a routine reordering of sections and section headings to conform with MEDMOS in that edit-- almost all of us medical editors do that sort of thing all the time on every medical article we encounter, probably because it's silly not to make such simple changes. I'm sorry you see something nefarious in that: my agf-o-meter does not. DocJames has made the same adjustments to many articles I edit and watch. I might understand your concern if there was anything even remotely controversial about that edit: there isn't. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:28, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Directed at the comment from NuclearWarfare, which pertains directly to ... moi in a roundabout way:

    (I recall Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Nyttend as working fairly well)

    Well, it certainly didn't feel to me like it was working at the time, since the usual folks showed up to grind axes and Nyttend never did retract, accept that he was wrong, or anything. Nonetheless, RFC worked in the sense that if Nyttend had continued that behavior (to my knowledge, he hasn't, but I haven't followed), there would be a prior record for then bringing it to Arbcom. More relevant here is that, unlike DocJames (who has agreed to basically everything requested here in spite of some of it being quite over the top and unnecessary), Nyttend never retracted, never agreed to anything. Considering the difference in approach we are seeing here from DocJames, I view the continued hounding, the suggestions that a mentor should be made public, and the calls for an RFC as retaliatory as BWilkins finds this whole ArbCase. A former arb knows better. I'm surprised the arbs haven't made some sort of statement to that effect; do we not expect a former arb to know dispute resolution processes? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • In general, I find it discouraging that so many admins are willing to overlook that what led to the block appears to have been a long and escalating pattern of aggression directed at many editors across many pages. Discounting the block because the pattern had occurred over several weeks (in fact months) is something I don't understand. But that's the new Misplaced Pages. Oh, well. At best, I do wish the arbs would take a stand that RFAR should not be misused by those who know DR well enough to know how to use this page appropriately. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:12, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Looie496

I'm just going to say that Doc James is the driving force behind WikiProject Medicine and is essential to its success. I would see any action that discourages him or otherwise impairs his effectiveness as a negative. Looie496 (talk) 16:03, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Tryptofish

Per this: , I suggest that declining the case at this time is the right decision to make. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:45, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Sjones23

Even though I don't know Doc James, and I view him as a good administrator and a valuable long-time contributor to the project, I have found his initial unblock of Fladrif back in April to be quite infuriating to say the least given Fladrif's chronic disruption and incivil behavior (but at least that's all settled), as well as his block on PumpkinSky for strong words. I don't think an arbitration case should work for now as I feel that it will bring a lot of Wikidrama and also given that Doc James has not caused any serious administrative misconduct enough to warrant that case. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:55, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Jmh649: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/7/0/0>-Jmh649-2013-06-22T12:30:00.000Z">

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)

  • Based on what has been posted so far, I don't perceive the need for an arbitration case. Several of the administrator actions PumpkinSky describes were correct and others at least defensible. However, I do hope that after this week Doc James will be a little more cautious with civility-based blocks, and it mght be best for him to stay away from any administrator actions relating to editors active on the Transcendental meditation topic-area—I would appreciate comments on that. Newyorkbrad (talk) 12:30, 22 June 2013 (UTC)"> ">
    • Response to PumpkinSky: The desysopping of Carnildo resulted from circumstances so totally dissimilar to those at issue here that it would not be helpful to discuss that case any further. The case of EncycloPetey is a bit closer to the mark, but one key distinction is that EncycloPetey refused to address the issues that had been raised, whereas Doc James has actively responded to the request for arbitration and stated that he would not repeat several aspects of his behavior that you have challenged. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:33, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Decline. Doc James' comments and commitments going forward (per above) confirm my view that there is no need for a case. I think a further commitment that he will not use administrator tools (1) in the TM topic-area or (2) with respect to PumpkinSky, would not be amiss, but I won't insist on them before voting. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:46, 23 June 2013 (UTC) I note that Doc James has now agreed to both (1) and (2), as well as not to protect or semiprotect articles he has edited. In this light, I think this request has achieved its purpose; I don't think even an RfC is needful unless there are additional problems after this request closes. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:05, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I think I would decline this case request, but I will withhold my vote for a day or two until more statements are given and I have had the opportunity to review background for this matter. Given that Jmh649 has apparently committed no egregious administrator misconduct (and that the accusations relate to poor judgement rather than outright abuse), I would expect all other methods of resolving the present concerns to have been attempted before we allow arbitration. However, this case request seems to be the first attempt at DR – when it ought to have been the last resort. AGK 14:27, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm not entirely sold on the idea that we can desysop (or impose other sysop-only sanctions on) someone for actions which don't involve the use of admin tools, except in particularly serious cases, such as harassment (though I concede that there is ample precedent against my opinion) and in the diffs which have been provided there is nothing really egregious. That said, at first glance, the evidence so far seems to show that Jmh649 sometimes has a peculiar interpretation of WP:INVOLVED, which is indeed troubling – I am referring, in particular, to the cases where he protected pages after heavily editing them. That's probably something that ArbCom should look at; then again, the previous attempts at dispute resolution have, so far, only involved the so-called drama boards. So, for the moment, I'll go with epoché, though I'll revisit my vote once more opinions have been expressed. Salvio 15:56, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
    • I think there is a significant difference between an administrator semiprotecting a page he or she edits regularly because of a content dispute, which would be troublesome, and the administrator's semiprotecting the page because of persistent vandalism or spamming, which would not trouble me at all, especially on medical articles. I do not see evidence that any of the protection actions PumpkinSky has listed were taken for the forbidden purpose of gaining an advantage in a content dispute. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:01, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
      • I disagree: except in cases of emergency (and, on Misplaced Pages, they are exceedingly rare), a user should strive not to use his sysop powers on articles which have seen his involvement as an editor, because to do otherwise blurs the distinction between the two roles: when a person has been editing an article, wrt to that article he's an editor like everyone else and, as such, if he wants to get the page protected, he needs to go to WP:RFPP. Salvio 17:06, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
        • Decline for now, basically because of Doc James's reaction to criticism. My opinion is that ArbCom ought not to do punishment but rather prevention and, so, when a different solution is available, that's what should be tried first: it may fail (and we may end up back here a couple of months later) and, so, our intervention may be necessary, but, at least, people have made a genuine effort to reach a solution to whatever the issue is in a collegial fashion, instead of getting us to unilaterally impose one. In short: though some of Doc James's actions are indeed problematic, he appears to be open to feedback; so a different venue must be tried first. Salvio 09:35, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Decline Further dispute resolution ought to be sought before this reaches us. Arbitration remedies are heavy-handed and blunt, and I definitely don't think that desysopping is required at this time. What is really needed here is advice on best practices given in a non-antagonistic manner. RfCs are one way to go about this (I recall Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Nyttend as working fairly well), but there are other methods such as having trusted administrators sit down and talk about the matters of dispute. NW (Talk) 18:04, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Decline It is sometimes unclear which route to take when a user has concerns about an admin's use of the tools. Our policy page has a useful section: WP:ADMINABUSE, which advises raising concerns directly with the admin, raising the matter on ANI, and starting a RFC. Sometimes these stages may be skipped, and it is a matter of judgement when they are. Usually, it would be for clear and obvious cases of excessive abuse, or where the admin sharply divides opinion and/or is very high profile, and it is felt that community discussions would generate drama and wouldn't reach an easy solution. I don't think that is the case here, so a RfC would be a useful stage - especially as from comments above, it is felt that the admin has erred, rather than been abusive. I've not looked deeply into the admin's conduct, though protecting Anencephaly was inappropriate. The article has had positive edits by six IP accounts this year, and minor vandalism by two. That is not grounds for protection, and the article should be unprotected. It is particularly concerning that the incident that led to the protection was an edit war between Jmh649 and a newly created user, over use of an image. That is not vandalism. That's a content dispute. A RfC would be useful, as the community may need to be reassured that Jmh649 is able to make appropriate decisions regarding page protection, to distinguish between content dispute and vandalism, and to understand what route to follow when involved. There may also be other reassurances required regarding use of the block tool. If the result of the RfC is that the community no longer have confidence in Jmh649's judgement, then he can be asked to resign without the need to come to ArbCom. SilkTork 09:23, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
  • I've been thinking about this for a few days, as I have been concerned by the fact that Doc James has appeared on my radar a number of times recently. However, looking in depth at the evidence provided, I don't see anything quite so egregious that we need to skip directly to arbitration, though we may well end up here in the future. I echo the suggestions of my colleagues, that this should be dealt with by other methods before arbitration - and those methods should be given a chance to work. An RfC has been suggested, I think that might be a good place to start. It might be, however, that this arbitration request is the wake up call Doc James needs to tread a little more carefully, specifically by not using his tools in relation to TM generally, or PumpkinSky specifically. For the time being, decline. Worm(talk) 12:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
    @Ched: It does really depend on how the RfC is framed. As NW points out, it would likely have a higher chance of success than an adversarial RfC/U, hopefully it will help multiple admins who skirt too close to INVOLVED. However, if it is just an RfC on the topic, and does not focus on any incidents pertaining to Doc James - it would very much depend on how involved Doc James gets in the RfC. I would certainly encourage you taking this route. Worm(talk) 07:48, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
    @Malke 2010: I'm personally declining without prejudice - if a future case comes up and other methods have been tried, I would look again at accepting. However, the other methods need to be tried and given a genuine chance of success. Worm(talk) 07:48, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Decline This is a tricky one, because the pile of incidents presented by PumpkinSky are a mess; some show no apparent problem, whereas some do indeed provoke concern. What, in my opinion, needs to change is that Jmh649 is seemingly willing to get too close to the line of WP:INVOLVED. The issues do not seem unfixable, or of such seriousness that the earlier steps of the DR process should be bypassed. Courcelles 04:05, 25 June 2013 (UTC)