Talk:Garden of Eden - Misplaced Pages

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Archives

Archive 1

Jesus in the Garden of Eden

There is a traditional Christian belief which claims that Jesus was in the Garden of Eden at the time of Eve's innocence. This belief has been represented in the paintings of Hieronymus Bosch. Since it is a fairly unusual belief, it ought to be researched more in depth in order to find out where it came from. ADM (talk) 16:47, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I've heard that theory too. Essentially, when God talks to Adam and Eve in Genesis 2, and when God walks in the garden in Genesis 3, "God" is actually Jesus (since, according to most Christian beliefs, Jesus is God). See particularly Genesis 3:3 -

"Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day" (GEN 3:3 NIV)

--Hendrixjoseph (talk) 23:02, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Gobekli Tepe as a suspected location

I propose a link to Gobekli Tepe as a suspected location, even if it's only in the "See also" section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Gobekli_Tepe

Dianaramadani (talk) 01:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC) The only thing in our article relevant is a couple of links, but see - this is so tenuous it just floats away. No one is seriously claiming this so far as I can tell. dougweller (talk) 05:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Statement on the Gobekli Tepe claim from the Deutsches Archaeologisches Institut

"From the Deutsches Archaeologisches Institut: : On February 28th the Daily Mail published an article by Tom Cox, in which Prof. Dr. Klaus Schmidt, leader of the Göbekli Tepe excavations, is cited as follows: "Göbekli Tepe is a temple in Eden". On the basis of this, the author formulates several conclusions about the biblical paradise, Adam and Eve and other events connected to the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament. Several German- and Turkish-language newspapers and radio stations of german and turkish language have picked up on the contents of the article since its publication.
"Tom Cox" or "Tom Knox" is a pseudonym of the British journalist Sean Thomas, who used the article to get publicity for his thriller "Genesis Secret", which is due to appear in March in English and simultaneously in German. Since Sean Thomas is using a falsified version of an interview with Klaus Schmidt made in fall 2006, he presents a distortion of the scientific work of the German Archaeological Institute.
The German Archaeological Institute (DAI) distances itself from these statements and reserves the right to take legal action against further dissemination of the story in connection with the work of the DAI at Göbekli Tepe. Klaus Schmidt neither in an interview nor on any other occasion made the above mentioned statements." That's pretty clear, we shouldn't use the Daily Mail stuff. dougweller (talk) 09:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Dante

I think the page warrants a mention of the Earthly Paradise at the top of Mt Purgatory in the Divine Comedy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.106.71 (talk) 14:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes it do! Go ahead and put it in there... Drmies (talk) 20:36, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Basic Facts with no POV

This article needs to be present the basic facts with no POV. This is what I mean:

Basic fact: "The Garden of Eden is described in the Book of Genesis"
Personl POV's: "The Garden of Eden is described in the Book of Genesis. This is a myth. The is part of Abrahamic myths."

Now the article already states that the source is the Bible. Fact. Done. If you now have your own personal opinions that the Bible is all myth, which is great, but they don't belong here at all. They belong over in the Bible article. Please go there and put them in, and leave the pedantic qualification, upon qualification out of this article. SAE (talk) 15:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

DreamGuy is deleting everything and called everyone who disagrees with his opinion a POV-pusher. I would appreciate if he would begin to use the talk pages and not erase everything in sight. This is my 4th attempt at trying to have a civil discussion with him. Hopefully he will respond to this. SAE (talk) 13:31, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Ethiopia paragraph, in Location - Africa

This paragraph is unsourced and has other problems. While it is true important human and pre-human fossils have been found in Ethiopia, the statement that "Paleontologists have excavated six million years of life" seems like an exaggeration or oversimplification. I also don't believe that they have concluded "that Ethiopia is the scientific location of human origin", since australopicine fossils have been found in other areas of eastern and southern Africa, too. This paragraph needs revision. Jbartelt9 (talk) 16:42, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

The Other Gods?

The Biblical Garden of Eden story has close parallels with other Ancient Near East stories, most of which are polytheistic. I'd be interested to see inclusion of arguments for and against the view that the Biblical story retains some polytheistic elements. Is the Serpent another God? Are the Cherubim with flaming swords (Gen 3:24) Gods? When God says (Gen 3:22) "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever" who is he talking to? (clearly not to Adam or Eve). Who else is he referring to when he says "one of us'? --Tediouspedant (talk) 15:15, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Sources "one+of+us"+polytheism&lr=&as_brr=3&ei=dnWSS92qIaD2MNPJ_NUM&cd=11#v=onepage&q=garden%20of%20eden%20%22one%20of%20us%22%20polytheism&f=false, "one+of+us"+polytheism&ei=OXWSS-_jJ4SMNtz0lPsM&cd=2#v=onepage&q=&f=false, "one+of+us"+polytheism&ei=OXWSS-_jJ4SMNtz0lPsM&cd=2#v=onepage&q=&f=false. Dougweller (talk) 15:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

In hebrew you pluralize as a sign of veneration, not actually to imply multiple, translated to english i can see how it appears differetnly then in hebrew though.. As for the cherubim and serpent , there is nothing that suggests they are gods. Seeing as this theory would be WP: fringe, it would be giving undue weight even if you find some source that would actually suggest polytheism in early judaism (espeically given that the early books make polytheism a grave sin, and contradict this notion. Unless you word it very cleverly to simply say that there are some adaptations from other near east stories, without actually suggesting polytheism in judaism itself. I.E. they took a ploytheistic story, dropped the other gods, and baam Judaism! (written less stupidly then i just did and sourced of course) Smitty1337 (talk) 19:46, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

"In hebrew you pluralize as a sign of veneration". No, you don't - there's no "royal plural" in Hebrew or other Semitic languages. The plural ending on elohim is simply a grammatical oddity, not a sign of respect. The seraphim were just snakes (literally "burning ones"), but also, with a different usage, serpent-demons (the seraphs in Isaiah were "burning" in the literal sense, but also probably had snake-bodies in addition to their wings and human heads and hands - there are depictions of them in the archaeological record). PiCo (talk) 07:27, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you can in some cases: cf. not just the data on Elohim you cited, but also things like the fact that the name of the great beast Behemoth is the plural of Hebrew bəhēmâ, "beast". Adam Restling (talk) 12:10, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

The real location of Eden

Dougweller seems to continually delete the suggested location of Kharsag / The Rachaya Basin, Lebanon - and is mistakenly claiming Laurence Gardner's mainstream published book "The Origin of God" by Dash House Publishing is inadmissable on Misplaced Pages on the basis that this is "self-published". He is wrong, they are a reputable publishing house, please recheck and restore as appropriate.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.111.32.44 (talk • contribs)

Dash House Publishing - its front page clearly says "print on demand enables authors to print from only one book to thousands. You, the author, decide how many. You may wish to publish the family story for relatives and friends, or you may be a bestseller yet to be discovered. POD gives you the freedom to publish your work and reach your chosen readership cost effectively." This is not a mainstream publishing house, this is print on demand. Dougweller (talk) 17:24, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Bah! I'll get you next time Penelope Pitstop!!! Just wait until someone verifiable reviews it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.111.32.44 (talk) 02:18, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Gan 'Edhen or Gan Ba(r) Edhen?

I'm from Romania. In highschool, my teacher for "History of Religions" class(he was 1/4 jewish ...grandmother from mother's side) told us that the correct name is Gan Bar Edhen, with a whispered, almost extinct "r". He gave us 2 versions: Gan Ba'Eden and Ba'Gan Eden, but I don't remember what was the difference between them, it was about 15 years ago. Bigshotnews 08:41, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I've heard of Ge Ben Hinnom ("valley of the son of Hinnom") as being the truer name of Ge Hinnom (source of the word Gehenna), but not this "Gan Bar Eden" (which would seem to be "garden of the son of Eden", using Aramaic bar "son"), and a Google search seems to turn up nothing, either. Perhaps the teacher was wrong, or citing some other thing/construction? Adam Restling (talk) 11:59, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

'Bar' can also mean "(having a quality) of". E.g. "bar kayma" - sustainable development. WillNess (talk) 13:45, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

The Garden of Eden is Kashmir Valley

Some good people have been reaserching and found that The Garden of Eden is Kashmir Valley This interesting map based on that research: http://www.jesus-kashmir-tomb.com/sitebuilder/images/Map_to_Graves-691x418.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bocah anon (talk • contribs) 08:57, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Do you have any peer-reviewed material by modern, accredited scientists who actually have kept track of the past century of anthropological and genetic studies, and who have given up on nationalistic biases? Because the material you're presenting doesn't look like that. You have a map from a map from a tourist trap. That doesn't amount to any sort of evidence. Ian.thomson (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

David Rohl - no POV

Whoever did the addition of David Rohl and his Eden (edin) theories summarized fairly... right up to the last sentence. They then wrote an opinion. My opinion is that David Rohl's ideas are some of the best I've ever heard (and I've heard a lot) but my opinion does not belong here either.

Please delete the last sentence in the David Rohl/Valley of Tabriz section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joenitwit (talk • contribs) 12:52, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I second the motion to remove this POV. Rohl's ideas were great, if a little dated now.Paul Bedson ❉talk❉ 13:05, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Why would we remove something sourced to a well knowna archaeologist? Eric Cline is a reliable source. I did remove the image however citing WP:UNDUE, none of the other fringe ideas have images (which is I think correct). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs) 13:31, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Pishon and Gihon

Dear "scientists" It's totally known where is Pishon and Gihon. Pishon is ancient name for Danube river and I know minimum two middle-age documents where it is axiom:

1. Pseudo-Caesarius - "Caesarii Dialogi" or "Questiones et responsiones". For us is interesting answer of qusetion 110. where he wrote about Slavic tribes who was migrating to Balkan Pennisula "...How again that on the other land S(k)lavs and Danubians, who named Pishones, too." http://en.wikipedia.org/Caesarius_of_Nazianzus book - http://www.scribd.com/doc/57783059/S-Caesarii-Dialogi-IV-Didymi-Caeci-De-Spiritua-Sancto-Contra-Manichaeos-S-Phoebadii-Contra-Arianos-De-Fide-orthadoxa-De-fide-1836

2. Constantine the Philosopher - "Biography of Despot Stefan Lazarević", the first humanistic book on the Balkan, where he said that Fishon or Pishon is Danube and Gihon is Nil.

How to understand this? Very easy, Adam is symbol of all men in the world, Eden is symbol of human civilization, place where was the easier place to live. On the Danube River was the first neolithic "civilization" of Lepenski Vir, Vinča and Starčevo, Egypt is the second civilizacion and Messopothamy is the third.

Lepenski vir - http://en.wikipedia.org/Lepenski_Vir Vinča - http://en.wikipedia.org/Vin%C4%8Da_culture

Man of the Vinča has maybe the first alphabet in the world, which is prove that this is civilization: http://en.wikipedia.org/Vin%C4%8Da_symbols — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blexandar (talk • contribs) 10:15, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

That may be the problem: you cite "middle-age" documents--for example, Caesarius of Nazianzus apparently lived around 331-368 CE--while the Torah is estimated as having been composed ca. eight centuries earlier (450 BCE), parts from sources even older. So terms like "Gihon" and "Pishon" in Genesis vs. these much-later accounts don't seem prevailing in their connections. The matter-of-fact, didactic claiming of its authenticity, thus, seems faulty. Adam Restling (talk) 11:54, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Etymology

Just wanted to make this note, since without it, the current etymological section seems incomplete to me.

According to John Huehnergard's list of Proto-Semitic roots (as featured in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language), Eden does mean "delight", deriving from a Central Semitic noun *ġadan, *ġidn "softness, tenderness, verdure" (root ġdn); the phoneme ġ, as usual, became Hebrew /ʿ/ (ʿayin).

The resemblance of the Hebrew form (if not its ancestor) to Sumerian edin is often raised, and interesting, but doesn't prove much: the Bible is full of linguistic and phonetic punning with terms that don't seem to truly be related, such as connecting Hebel ("Abel") to a homophonous word hebel "vaporous, ephemeral", or Qayin ("Cain") to Eve's comment on his birth, "I have gotten (קניתי qānîtî ) a man with the help of the Lord"--despite the likely true, quite different, theorized etymologies of their names. Adam Restling (talk) 11:38, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Islamic Garden of Eden

I have no objection to including the Quranic garden, and in fact it would be a good idea, but so far there are no sources. We'll do it in time. PiCo (talk) 05:58, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

There are variations in the narative sure, but that doesn't mean that the translation isn't still valid.Smitty1337 (talk) 06:20, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't understand - what translation, and what variations in what narrative? PiCo (talk) 07:51, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I mean that there are differences between Eden story from the bible to the Quran. But that shouldn't exclude the arabic translation of the name Garden of Eden. It is relevent in that language. Smitty1337 (talk) 10:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I see. When we get to dealing with the Quranic garden we can add it - but is it going to help anyone who can't read Arabic? PiCo (talk) 11:29, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

It's the same garden. As for who it will help, how does any translation help anyone who doesnt speak that language? Generally wiki seems to put translations in the lede that are relevent to the topic, arabic and hebrew are both relevent. Even if the article is lacking in a description of islamic interpretation, it is still a relevent language to the subject. (though I'm really arguing as a devil's advocate: in reality i think you make an interesting point, i think that translations really dont serve much purpose aside from trivia)Smitty1337 (talk) 09:14, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear that you're playing Devil's advocate :). We'll just take it slowly - I'll go slowly through the references I've gathered and make edits as they become obvious.

There are at least two articles in Wiki already on the Islamic Eden/Paradise - they look pretty complete. We shouldn't go too far here to simply duplicate what's available there. That's my view, anyway. PiCo (talk) 07:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

There should be some mention of the Arabic tradition of the location of Eden being the site that still goes under that place name (Aden, or Ad'n in Arabic). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.232.226.167 (talk) 02:13, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Uner the Persian Gulf

Isn't this a bit long? Why should it be given so much space? Dougweller (talk) 12:34, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Definitely too long, and the sources look rather non-reliable to me. The best basic source is Tsumura's "I Studied...", which is a collection of important articles on the subject. Tsmumura's introduction is an excellent summary of the way scholarly thinking had evolved to that point. PiCo (talk) 22:56, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Then can you fix it, as I don't have the book. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 07:17, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

The Garden of Eden

Is the Garden of Eden mention in the bible, Is it the land of Paradise that Jesus said to one of the two robbers that got crucified with Jesus on mount Calvary? and secondly, is that garden of Eden which some of us said that it to be Paradise, does it exist on earth or is it in Heaven?.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.62.121.67 (talk) 21:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Banishment from Eden to prevent eating the Tree of Life.

21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” Editor2020 (talk) 02:35, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

tree of life

hi my question is that in bible there is no menstion about tree of life could you explian to me ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.82.74.166 (talk) 06:11, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

GARDEN OF EDEN

If you read the book of EZEKIEL with understanding in some verses EDEN is used as a comparison to both SATAN and cities names in the verses, as a form of destruction to both. It is not implying that Eden is located in Lebenon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.126.210.61 (talk) 19:29, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

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