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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lightbreather (talk | contribs) at 20:46, 6 September 2013 (→Federal assault weapons ban title OR/synthesis?: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome to the no original research noticeboard
This page is for requesting input on possible original research. Ask for advice here regarding material that might be original research or original synthesis. Include links to the relevant article(s). Make an attempt to familiarize yourself with the no original research policy before reporting issues here. You can also post here if you are unsure whether the content is considered original research. Sections older than 28 days archived by MiszaBot II. Click here to purge this page (For help, see Misplaced Pages:Purge) Shortcuts WP:NORN WP:NOR/N WP:ORN WP:OR/N If you mention specific editors, please notify them. You may use {{subst:NORN-notice}} to do so.
Additional notes: "Original research" includes unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position. Such content is prohibited on Misplaced Pages. For volunteers wishing to mark a discussion resolved, use {{Resolved|Your reason here ~~~~}} at the top of the section.
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Myspace

http://en.wikipedia.org/Myspace#New_Myspace the very last portion of this section contains a lot of original research and dubious sources for its citations.

Forums as sources being discussed at Talk:IRS

For some reason a discussion over a particular forum was initiated at Misplaced Pages talk:Identifying reliable sources#Skyscrapercity.com online forum which has grown into a general discussion about forums as sources. There's a request for comment and it seems to me that others here will probably be interested and may have missed it. Dougweller (talk) 19:05, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Tony Ortega

User:Laval has purged a significant amount of properly cited biographical content from the new Tony Ortega BLP article less than 12 hours after I posted it claiming that it was original research amongst other things. Although I am a noob editor, I find those edits troubling and request somebody more knowledgeable than I am to review the version history to see anything that was stripped away can be restored. I spent several weeks developing that article offline in order to replace the stub the user originally posted that I thought was questionable in the context of lacking serious biographical material when there was so much readily available. Additionally, some of edits removed entire sections (Eg. Recognition that listed industry awards and honors the subject received) that I had carefully drafted based on seeing the same sort of content on other articles for seasoned journalists with comparable history. Thus I'm quite perplexed as to why it was removed in whole. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Hapshepsuit (talk) 14:03, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

As explained on the talk, most of those are primary sources from Ortega's blog and the tone was incredibly promotional and advertorial in nature. It's an encyclopedia article, not a resume or a promotional vehicle. Please read reliable sources, WP:NPOV, and WP:V. These are even more important considering the article is about a living person. Laval (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Also, as stated on the talk, most of the article was pure original research and even using sources that don't even mention Ortega directly. As far as questionable sources in the stub, you removed the article about Ortega in the New York Observer as well as the fact that he is a freelance blogger. The POV tone and OR is easily apparent. Also, based on the edits and off-wiki information, there is a strong possibility that this editor is closely connected to Ortega, in which case there is a definite conflict of interest. Laval (talk) 14:12, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry but I respectfully disagree. Of the 66 references I originally cited, 61 were from media outlets, professional associations and other online sources that were not written by the subject of the article. None of my work was original research, but rather a summation of a wide collection of biographical material readily available from sources that were removed such as the NYTimes, the Association of Alternative Newsmedia, the Investigative Reporters and Editors organization, the National Association of Black Journalists, etc. Thus I am asking for a second opinion. Hapshepsuit (talk) 14:25, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

You used very few secondary/tertiary sources as your contributions show, plus quite a few sources didn't say what you had written or even omitted data as was the case with his graduate work and the circumstances of his blog. As I said, your contributions are right there in the history and the POV and OR is clearly apparent, as was the promotional tone which was written like an essay. And of course you should ask for a second and third opinions, however WP policies on BLP are pretty clear on these things. Laval (talk)

Not to distract from the convo too much, but Laval also made similar edits on Freemasonry here, here, and here. Seems to be an issue of what the editor believes is correct more so than what the community believes is correct per guidelines. I know sourcing types are hard to identify sometimes, as I've had questions myself, but multiple reversions should indicate there is an editing pattern problem. MSJapan (talk) 20:56, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

RfC concerning the Lavabit email service

There is a request for comments (RfC) that may be of interest. The RfC is at

Talk:Lavabit#RfC: Should information about Lavabit complying with previous search warrants be included?

At issue is whether we should delete or keep the following text in the Lavabit article:

Before the Snowden incident, Lavabit had complied with previous search warrants. For example, on June 10, 2013, a search warrant was executed against Lavabit user Joey006@lavabit.com for alleged possession of child pornography.

There have been concerns expressed as to whether the above violates our no original research policy. Your input on this question would be very much welcome. --Guy Macon (talk) 04:56, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

The White Queen (TV series)#Historical Inaccuracies

The section The White Queen (TV series)#Historical Inaccuracies is 100% WP:SYN. I pointed this out on the talk page, but to no avail. As an IP editor I have no weight, so if there is a more experienced editor here who wants to step in, that might be helpful. 202.81.243.196 (talk) 12:06, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, there were a few sources, eg "Jane Shore, Edward IV’s mistress, is portrayed as a young courtier. In fact, she was a mature woman, the wife of a London tradesman. REF: Ross, Charles. Edward IV. Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1974" -- of course, the TV series was broadcast this year - is this time travel? Anyway, someone did listen to you and it's gone. Dougweller (talk) 15:03, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I will repeat what I wrote on the talk page: One of the most interesting aspects of historical fiction is departure from fact for dramatic or other reasons. It's also an issue in which many readers are interested. As it happens I have long disagreed with the interpretation of WP:OR that you present here. If a film portrays, say, the Battle of Waterloo being fought in the same time as the Battle of Trafalgar, I cannot see how it is in any way OR to assert that this is inaccurate. If there is no ambiguity about what the film shows and there is no uncertainty about the historical facts, then there is no original research, because no new idea is being "sythesised". It's not a new idea that the battles did not happen in the same year. Now, I accept that there are ambiguous cases. In this instance you might say that there are chains of reasoning that go beyond mere "fact", such as the deduction that it is supposed to be winter when the Battle of Bosworth takes place. Maybe, but it would certainly have been a very odd August. Of course the snow is obviously emblematic, like the eclipse (though that really happened), suggesting an ending and beginning. No doubt that's one reason why they changed the details. Another was probably because they could create the impression of a battle with about ten extras in a dense forest, but in a field it would just look silly. Now adding that would be OR. But undisputed historical facts are not. Paul B (talk) 16:27, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I do think we need to have a proper debate about this issue, because I think it's one of those areas in which anti-OR dogmatism damages the project. The point of WP:OR is to prevent people presenting their pet ideas as though they are accepted fact, are more significant or have more justification than mainstream opinion asserts. In this case, the effect is actually to suppress mainstream opinion in order to leave deviations from historical fact unchallenged. I have long felt that this is a kind of perversion of the spirit and intent of WP:OR and that we should stop repeating the mantra that reliable sources have to have directly commented on "inaccuracies" in films and TV shows with historical content before we can note these. As far as I can see cases like this are similar to the issue of whether making arithmetical calculations, or writing translations, are OR. If there is nothing to dispute then the concept of OR is inappropriate because there is in fact no "synthesis" occurring. By adopting the approach advocated by the IP and some other editors we damage the encyclopedia by excluding information that is verifiable and which serves the purpose to inform. In addition, as I said above, this is actually one of those aspects of historical fiction that people are most interested in, for perfectly good reasons: how much of it is true? We do not serve readers by excluding information that is not in dispute. Paul B (talk) 16:40, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I have raised this at Misplaced Pages talk:No original research for a discussion of the broader issue. Paul B (talk) 19:30, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

You are convincing me. But the problem is, if we allow this, do we also allow it say in fringe articles, eg Where Troy Once Stood? Dougweller (talk) 19:38, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

As far as I am aware we do not have to have sources commenting directly on that book to summarise the mainstream views of where Troy was, but of course that is not a case where there are simple matter of fact being contrasted with a fiction narrative that deviates from known fact with what is called "dramatic licence". We all accept that historical drama does that for aesthetic or thematic reasons. In the case you give, the author is arguing a case for an interpretation of actual history. Paul B (talk) 19:54, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

(e-c) I agree with Paul regarding some cases, like works of fiction, where the writers can sometimes play fast and loose with history. The problem is, like Doug says, some of the wacko science out there, like people who get interviewed on Coast to Coast AM and who write what might be called "speculative nonfiction." The Jesus Dynasty and a lot of the work of Eric von Daniken, Michael Baigent, and the like come to mind here. In a lot of the cases of, like, books, I could reasonably see having the "reception" section indicate the major points of deviation from academic or general consensus. We do seem to be getting more articles on these "alternative views" than many of us might have expected, and it might make sense to acknowledge that with some changes in the policies and guidelines dealing with them. John Carter (talk) 19:58, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

"One of the most interesting aspects of historical fiction is departure from fact for dramatic or other reasons." While that may be true, as Wikipedians it is not our job to be investigating and creating such analysis and interesting commentary. We are merely aggregators of content that other reliable sources have found interesting enough to publish. Our only analysis should be on whether or not or how much the published analysis represents the mainstream views. And just providing a list of the inaccuracies does nothing to enhance our reader's knowledge of " departure from fact for dramatic or other reasons." - did they depart from fact because they didn't do research? because they believe a fringe theory that they consider "fact"? because the budget wouldnt allow them to do another scene set in the town X where Sir Y actually died? because killing someone 3 years before their actual death would allow a dramatic widow scene in season 2 rather than season 4? all of the actual interesting parts are stuff that need the backing third party sources. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:59, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

If we put forward out own interpretation of the reasons for departures from fact, then we would indeed be engaging in original research. That, in fact is the whole point. I think you draw the line in the wrong place and miss the central issue, which is the question of what constitutes OR. Of course we would have to leave it up to readers to decide what the reason for a departure from fact was - whether it was for ideological or dramatic purposes. I see nothing wrong in that at all. Readers are perfectly capable of drawing their own conclusions. I am sure a lot of the time they simply want the correct information, so that they can then make of it whatever they want. This is precisely why what I amn proposing is not "creating ... analysis and interesting commentary", it is providing sourced facts and facts alone. Indeed I made that distinction very clear in my first message about the difference between speculating about why facts were altered and noting them. Paul B (talk) 14:17, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

No i do not draw the line at the wrong place. An encyclopedia does not "bring up questions for the reader to ponder and answer themselves". an encyclopedia provides the answers. if we have reliable sources that talk about the unanswered questions related to the topic, we can mention the current debates if appropriate - but again, it requires third party sources talking about the specific topic of the article.

re: "it is providing sourced facts and facts alone." Calling out on our own, and particularly in a standalone section called "Historical Inaccuracies" ,has far more nuances and implications than "facts alone" and is highlighted in policy WP:STRUCTURE. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:55, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Red (if I can call him/her/it Red) has a good point here. Having a separate section devoted to "Historical Inaccuracies" not only has some serious OR problems, but also quite possibly, in a lot of cases, serious WEIGHT problems. Braveheart and a few other works which have had significant attention to their inaccuracies are one thing, and I can see, in some of those cases, a standalone section. But otherwise, for a lot of these "variant histories" in fiction, I myself would probably favor just adding some words in the otherwise existing material on the subject of the history something to the effect that what is portrayed is not widely accepted by historians. So, for instance, describing that movie as "a fictionalized version of the life of William Wallace" would be to my eyes perfectly acceptable, and even a lot of the material in that article, about the screenwriter's use of sometimes dubious sources, seems reasonable. But if the subject hasn't received a lot of attention in the context of the subject of the article itself, I would be really hesitant to create a separate section. John Carter (talk) 23:47, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

I can see both sides of the issue. On the one hand, listing historical inaccuracies that cannot be sourced is OR. It is unlikely there will ever be many sources, unless someone decided to write a piece specifically on this topic. There are some, but they mention the inaccuracies in very general terms, mainly to explain that without them no one would want to watch the show . A few are more specific . Those can be used and some are in the article. Anything more, without proper sources, fits the standard definition of OR. That may be unfortunate. The preamble to explains what Misplaced Pages is, it says: "Misplaced Pages is an online encyclopedia and, as a means to that end, an online community of individuals interested in building and using a high-quality encyclopedia in a spirit of mutual respect." if Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, indeed a "high-quality encyclopedia" then it probably aims to educate, at least to a certain extent. I believe that a section showing just how inaccurate history that has been fictionalized on TV can be, might be useful, especially to younger people who are likely to be Misplaced Pages's readers. In that respect, I would not mind a limited modification of the rules on OR .--Luke Warmwater101 (talk) 03:20, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Spengler's Civilization Model: Prolegomenon

A certain user is continually reposting original research and racist spam. The "prolegomenon" (by itself an un-encyclopaedic phrase) to the article "Spengler's Civilization Model" (Spengler's civilization model) is clearly racist as well as unrelated to the subject matter. It is 100% original research.

Every time I tried to add the OR tag the same user deletes it. I tried deleting the Prolegomenon but he keeps reposting what is essentially a speculative essay filled with cliches, stereotypes and generalizations unrelated to the subject whatsoever. Using the Talk Page did not help at all, since the user just ignored what I wrote.

I have currently bolded certain parts of the Prolegomenon which are especially obvious in their offensiveness - however, the WHOLE THING needs to go, it is pure speculation and original research and unverifiable and therefore un-encyclopaedic content. It even makes predictions about the future ("In the end of 2014 AD, the synergy of new debt will decrease to zero, at which moment the world will undergo an electrical breakdown—an instantaneous tunnelling to a more negative energy state.")Ben Ammi, Ben Ammi (talk) 21:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Examples of the madness:

As it stands, the Prolegomenon to this article even claims to prophesy the future, hardly an encyclopaedic thing to do: "In the end of 2014 AD, the synergy of new debt will decrease to zero, at which moment the world will undergo an electrical breakdown—an instantaneous tunnelling to a more negative energy state."

So is this a fact or not? If so, I'd like some verification and sources - furthermore I'd like sources for all these claims, that Misplaced Pages is currently making to the world in its Prolegomenon section to Spengler's Civilization Model:

"Women like pink; Mongoloid flags (Japan, China, Vietnam) are red; sunrise (the spring of the day) is red"

"Men like blue; the Jewish flag is blue; midnight (the winter of the day) is blue ("No brown after six")"

"The redshiftedness of the Mongoloids and the blueshiftedness of the Jews imply that they are the broad Epimethean and narrow Promethean parts of the same funnel-shaped gravity well:"

"Being such blueshifted fallen angels, men are Promethean (future-minded, goal-oriented) mentally and Mephistophelean (spaghettified, serpentine, penile) corporeally."

"Cerebrotonia is the predominance of nervous tissue, which is "cosmopolitan"—interconnected encapsulated groups (ganglia) of neurons ("Jewish communities") reside in all organs ("countries") and orchestrate them into a single organism"

"Infantile (feminine, rural, Mongoloid) brain: Predominance of gray matter (the neuronal cell bodies and their dendrites, the short protrusions that communicate with immediately neighbouring neurons in the brain)."

"Adult (masculine, urban, Jewish) brain: Predominance of white matter (the axons that reach out from neurons to more distant regions of the brain; since an axon is insulated with myelin, it is "Aspergian"—alienated from its immediate surroundings)."''

Are all these crazy claims actually verifiable facts ? I doubt it. But this guy keeps reposting this stuff again and again, spamming Misplaced Pages and making a mockery of the "online encyclopedia."

Ben Ammi Ben Ammi (talk) 14:42, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

I've blocked the editor adding this material for a 3RR violation, and others have removed the material each time it was added. Dougweller (talk) 19:22, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Tropes in Agatha Christie's novels

I am having a dispute with NinjaRobotPirate about the above-mentioned article. He appears determined to remove most the article as it stood before two days or so ago, as "unsourced". His editing policy is that one edits best those articles to which one is indifferent (to paraphrase from his talkpage). I accept that he is acting is good faith, as he may see fit, but I strenuously disagree with his actions.

Also, by being indifferent to material one is editing one is less likely to be familiar with it, and, even more importantly, less invested in it. I do not understand what has to be done to "source" this material, almost all of which, directly dovetails with the lengthy, spoilers-and-all, synopses of all these mystery novels, right here on Misplaced Pages. Where I am supposed to find paperbacks to cite page numbers?? Those (Christie) novels which were written after ISBNs came into existence have them on their article pages. I admit I am fond of the article in question, as a long time Christie aficionado, and to see it whittled down from a redwood to a bonsai is painful and, I believe, unnecessary.

Yours, Quis separabit? 23:38, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

First, I should probably apologize for my rather curt and irritable posts to Rms, as I had originally assumed (from the age of his account) that he was quite familiar with Misplaced Pages's guidelines and policies. Due to my assumption, I was perhaps a bit too hasty to assume that he was edit warring, protecting his ownership of the article, and other bad faith assumptions. I realize now that I probably should have engaged with him in a more patient and friendly manner, and maybe this whole thing could have been avoided; plus, as he initially suggested, I probably should have used the talk page to explain my edits, instead of cryptic edit summaries which alluded to Misplaced Pages policies. That said, I stand by my edits, and, as Rms says, I am fairly determined to remove the original research from this article. Without rehashing everything on the talk page once again, I'm not really sure there's much to say. Yes, someone spent much time writing up a long analysis of the tropes in Agatha Christie's fiction, but Misplaced Pages is not the place for such things. Unfortunately, citing primary sources, such as the books themselves, is not a valid citation. In order to have a page that discusses the tropes in question, one must find a reliable source, such as scholar or journalist, who says something is a trope, and then Misplaced Pages can quote that person. I suggest doing some research on Google Scholar and Google Books, which is where I found the few citations that I made. As it stands, this article is nightmare of original research, and it needs to be whittled back down to that pathetic bonsai tree in order to fit Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:04, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

From a quick look at the article, I have to agree that it is almost entirely WP:OR. Who says that the 'tropes' in the novel are indeed 'tropes'? Nobody but Misplaced Pages contributors apparently, who have read the relevant novel, and decided that it contains a 'trope'. That is original research, plain and simple... AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:13, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Just so everyone is aware. I did not create the article. Sordel did. I am not familiar with "tropes" and it is not a word I would use; I am insufficiently intellectual for that. I did contribute after the article was created. Just so that's understood. It would have been better, I think, had it not been created at all. Perhaps AFDing later depending on the final outcome. Quis separabit? 00:21, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

It does not matter who created the article or really who added content (the "who is recorded in the edit summaries which is what Misplaced Pages requires for attribution). What does matter that the the content that is added or re-added to the article., particularly any analysis or commentary, is supported by a reliably published sourced that straightforwardly makes the claim. Misplaced Pages editors are not so much writers as merely aggregators of content and analysis that others have already written. Yes, finding sources can take time, but books.google.com and scholar.google.com are both great free resources. (and the cite tool, when its working, makes the WP:CITEing easy. and even if you do not understand how to provide the appropriate cite, simply linking to the reliably published sources (not blogs or random websites) within <ref> </ref> tags with a request for someone to complete the reference will suffice. The subject seems to me to be one that would have oodles of sources, although many places may not specifically use the word "trope" and I am not sure where or how the line is determined about "they did not specifically use the word 'trope' but they were clearly talking about 'tropes' " -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 01:13, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

An article could be written on this topic, but it will take time and effort. One can not simply write long essays and upload them to Misplaced Pages: this is the very definition of original research. Instead, one must find published works and summarize them. If you're willing to do the research necessary to write this article, you can save it. If you're not, that's fine. Someone else might be. Deletion is a last resort, and it's not used to punish poorly written articles. Articles lacking notability or impossible to verify are routinely deleted, but poorly written articles just get turned into stubs. This is what I did. It's perfectly within guidelines, and there isn't really any policy- or guideline-based argument you can make to keep the old version of the article. It's been a month now since I originally tagged the article as needing additional sources, the old AfD advised a total rewrite with sources (which is what I did), and the current version of the page violates Misplaced Pages policy. There really isn't anywhere to go except to revert back to my edit, which stubbed the article. Once this is done, you can expand the article to your heart's content, as long as you find reliable sources to back up your assertions. I found several sources which discuss tropes in Agatha Christie's novels, so the topic seems notable to me. I would not support a deletion proposal. However, I would support merging my stub into Agatha Christie. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:55, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. I found a reflink regarding an interesting "trope" that most people are unaware of: Poirot letting or even suggesting (in certain cases) that the murderer/killer/perpetrator take his or her own life to avoid scandal, shame, prosecution, execution, etc. I also removed some marginal stuff, as well. Quis separabit? 01:10, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to make this more clear. Maybe it's because I'm repeating myself, but I don't think you're understanding me. Every unsourced line has to go. Every single line in the article body has to be deleted. There are no "iffy" sections. Unless you can find a reliable source (such as a book, magazine, or newspaper article – not a random blogger) that backs up the assertions made, they can be removed by anyone. I think that I've been quite patient; I originally tagged this article with a few cleanup templates a month ago. When I returned to check up on the article, it was still a mess. I stubbed the article and replaced it with some cited material, which you reverted. I really must insist that you either revert the article back to my stub-version, or I'll do it myself. Once this is done, you can re-add the removed material, but only if you can find a citation for it. You had a month find citations for these statements, and nothing was done. The time for precision editing has passed, and it's time to replace this mess with a proper article that's within policy. My stub-version is exactly that. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:48, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

You are much more kind and patient than I am! -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:36, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Interac (Japan)

I have been trying to clean up Interac_(Japan) for some time now and there has recently been a revert and edit of my previous edits. I request help with this page.Taurus669 (talk) 02:47, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

This page is full of original research related to the Union presence section and below.

In particular, the revert and edit made by Mah2012 on 23 August 2013 and by 202.241.4.55 on 30 August 2013 seem to be full of self-published materials by the same union(s) that these editors are including.

The edit on 30 August 2013 called "Operation Slingshot" appears to be 100% original research.Taurus669 (talk) 02:45, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Ventura, CA: Points of Interest - Westside

On August 28, 2013, a large paragraph was added to Ventura,_California#Points_of_interest about the Westside Neighborhood that has no citations and appears to be original research.

Could an editor provide further comments since the entire section needs work as does much of the page? This paragraph and others are beginning to describe neighborhoods rather than Points of Interest. The rest of the Points of Interest just seem to be random sentences. There is also a list of Notable locations with the distinctive feature that many of the places are not "worthy of notice" and do not include links. If one uses the WikiProject_Cities/US_Guideline, where would information about notable landmarks and locations go? On a separate page? --Fettlemap (talk) 21:52, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm a fairly active wikipedian from Ventura. My office was once in the Erle Stanley Gardner Building at the center of town. I know nothing about this subject. Other than the local knowledge that the vcstar is the local paper and the best RS close to the scene, I don't have much to bring to the party that couldn't be googled. So as I advise others to do, I hit google. It sounds like a lot of well informed, probably accurate, OR. I did find several pictures glorifying the vandalism in that area of town, but matching the descriptions. The gang name is real. OR: Later I drove down Ventura Avenue and its not that graffiti ridden. It is an old, low income area. This article indicates there is a long standing graffiti problem. About all the biker gangs, well, my own OR knows a past Hells Angel's president lived here for many years. I think he is now residing at one of our state prisons. There is a biker convention of sorts here. The locations, "The Avenue" as I hear it called, Pierpont, Fairgrounds, the Harbor are all fairly major landmarks here. Worthy of someone writing an article about them. At the moment, the paragraph I questioned is not exactly Chamber of Commerce material and is currently unsourced, but looks like it can be sourced if you want to. Trackinfo (talk) 08:03, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Federal assault weapons ban article title

The Misplaced Pages article currently titled Federal Assault Weapons Ban was created in January 2003 as "Assault weapons ban". After that it was redirected/renamed five times (as far as I can tell) until October 2006, when it was capitalized, without discussion that I can find. Why this decision was made and why it has stayed under the radar for so long is a mystery. A preponderence of reliable, verifiable sources use the term "federal assault weapons ban" in sentence case in running text. Many use it lowercase in titles and headers, too. I have found no evidence that the WP:TITLE policy and the WP:NCCAPS guideline should be an exception for this article. Ignoring widely-used conventions for this article in Misplaced Pages reflects poorly on its credibility.

I haven't mastered WP coding, so pardon me if I format these links clumsily, but here are some:

• Associated Press
• Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
• Senator Dianne Feinstein's official website
• Fox News
• Los Angeles Times
• NRA Institute for Legislative Action
• The New York Times
• U.S. Government Printing Office
• USA Today
• The Wall Street Journal

I think this article would be improved by restoring its title to sentence case format. Based on the sources, to use title case seems WP:OR.

--Lightbreather (talk) 20:04, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Federal assault weapons ban title OR/synthesis?

The Misplaced Pages article currently titled Federal Assault Weapons Ban was created in January 2003 as "Assault weapons ban". After that it was redirected/renamed five times (as far as I can tell) until October 2006, when it was capitalized, without discussion that I can find. Why this decision was made and why it has stayed under the radar for so long is a mystery. A preponderence of reliable, verifiable sources use the term "federal assault weapons ban" in sentence case in running text. Many use it lowercase in titles and headers, too. I have found no evidence that the WP:TITLE policy and the WP:NCCAPS guideline should be an exception for this article. Ignoring widely-used conventions for this article in Misplaced Pages reflects poorly on its credibility among some style-savvy readers, too.

I haven't mastered WP coding, so pardon me if I format these links clumsily, but here are some:

• Associated Press
• Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
• Senator Dianne Feinstein's official website
• Fox News
• Los Angeles Times
• NRA Institute for Legislative Action
• The New York Times
• U.S. Government Printing Office
• USA Today
• The Wall Street Journal

I think this article would be improved by restoring its title to sentence case format. Based on the sources, to use title case seems WP:OR.

--Lightbreather (talk) 20:46, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

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