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Tharizdun

Tharizdun (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This character does not establish notability independent of Dungeons & Dragons through the inclusion of real world information from reliable, third party sources. Most of the information is made up of overly in-depth plot details and other primary information better suited to Wikia. There is no current assertion for future improvement of the article, so extended coverage is unnecessary. TTN (talk) 21:44, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000 22:13, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000 22:13, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

• Keep notable. 3rd party sources, i have them. Web Warlock (talk) 23:48, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

NOTE I find this massive string of AfDs to be of very bad faith. You are taking advantage of the community knowing full well it takes you SECONDS to tag an article but it takes us HOURS or DAYS to do the research. I formally request that you give us the time needed and stop tagging articles. To continue to do so will be considered a bad faith edit and I will revert. Web Warlock (talk) 23:48, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

note2 I added more sources last night. I have a stack of Challenge magazines to go through and some more Pegasus magazines.Web Warlock (talk) 12:44, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

That comment sure is blatant WP:AGF violation. Users are free to nominate any number of article they want for AfD, and all of TTN's nominations have been sound and made on articles unlikely to ever be notable, and the closes confirm it so far. They will result in merges anyway, so if sources arise, articles can easily be restored and no harm is done. Your complaint is utterly misplaced: all these articles have existed for YEARS, there was time enough for the D&D wikiproject to research sources. WP:N and WP:NOTPLOT have also been around for years, so don't try to act as if these were suddenly imposed on you by TTN's nomination. The real problem is the unchecked proliferation of D&D fancruft; just because it took SECONDS to create an article, some felt they could just turn this into a D&D fanwiki, but that time is over, so deal with it. Compared to the five fucking thousand total D&D articles, TTN's dozen of nominations are nothing, so feel free to bring all the others up to notability standards instead of threatening good users who merely try to apply the rules that some didn't bother to respect.Folken de Fanel (talk) 01:17, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Just to clarify, a very large percentage of your five thousand count of pages are actually not articles. If you scroll through that list you will find that many of them are categories, portal pages, project pages, redirects, templates, and over 1000 of the pages are files such as images. BOZ (talk) 03:53, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

It's not like the problem hasn't been apparent for years (tons of discussions in the project talk page archives), and I already tried the slow approach years ago. In the end, all the articles that I had merged were brought back with absolutely nothing of value. These articles currently assert absolutely nothing in regard to future potential, so there is really no need to wait. If some obscure text sources are required to establish notability, it can always be brought back, as it's not like any of the outcomes are unreversible. TTN (talk) 06:30, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - extending good faith to Webwarlock on this one; this guy is the villain of The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and basically 4th edition D&D. BOZ (talk) 00:01, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

there is a time for good faith - the years that this sat around waiting for sources- however, at an AfD one is actually required to present the evidence. The links you have provided are primary sources and not sufficient in addressing the WP:GNG threshold. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:20, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Already looks like there are multiple secondary sources present in the article as it stands now. I echo WebWarlock's concerns of serial AFD'ing: At some point, based on the outcomes of his prior attempts, TTN knows or should know that his attempts at deletion are turning into merge vs. redirect discussions. At some point, we simply cannot continue AGF'ing that he actually believes there is a SNOW chance of any of these actually being deleted. TTN is no stranger to unilateral attempts to merge or delete pop culture content; TTN should know better. Jclemens (talk) 06:43, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

• These articles are valid deletion candidates, and it is not my problem if there is no chance of an actual deletion outcome. Dealing with fiction is different than BLP and other topics in the first place. I'm not attempting to force merges with this because I do not really care if these are merged. Very little would end up ported over in the first place with most of these, so deletion is the preferred outcome to keep them from being recreated. TTN (talk) 06:53, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

• the assertion of third party sources can only be made on a "first glance" - the sources that are not published by TSR, the company that bought it out Wizards of the Coast or the officially nonindependent licensee Piazo Publishing are authored by Larry Schick non independent source as an authorized writer and creator for D&D materials. While it is possible that the Appelcline book would be a useful source (in fact it might be an amazing source for all kinds of articles if it goes into the details of the game design process), currently there is no evidence that there is any significant coverage of the subject of the article, merely a reprint of publication history.~And then there is a blog by some guy. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:12, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

First run at sources while on my phone. Real research takes time. Care to help? Web Warlock (talk) 14:15, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

• Agree with TTN, per WP:DEL-REASON, failure to meet notability guidelines is a valid deletion rationale. That consensus in discussions can result in merges rather than outright deletion is out of TTN's hand, and as far as I'm concerned, I only !vote merge for the sake of compromise, the mergeable content being almost exclusively detailed plot summary, I would have no problem to see it gone for good. Finally, Jclemens is reminded to comment on content and not on the contributor, TTN's nominations and the ensuing consensuses are not "unilateral attempts" in any way, and AfD is no place for groundless accusations or badgering an editor for his position on fiction.Folken de Fanel (talk) 15:01, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Except that repeated deletion nominations in light of an unbroken string of non-deleted nominations of similar topics becomes a WP:POINT violation at some point--it's pretending that content policies are normative, rather than descriptive. Finally, Folken de Fanel is reminded that past misconduct is absolutely relevant to discussions that turn on whether nominations deserve the continued presumption of good faith, as he knows firsthand as a reformed sockpuppetteer. Jclemens (talk) 16:35, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

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